Welcome to Open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for nearly a decade and has long hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome
to Open Minds Radio, your UFO news authority. This is Alejandro Rojas, and we have another spectacular guest. And I always am excited about the guests, you know, and I'm equally excited. I really am genuinely excited with all these people, whether they be a sergeant in the Air Force who touched the UFO, or whether they be our guest today, David Walks as Bear, who is an Inner tribal elder. He's an author, speaker, a syndicated columnist. He's done it all and he's going to be here talking to
us about some of the UFO research that he's done. And he's also going to be talking about some of the Native American legends and folklore and their connection to UFOs, So that's a great topic, one of my favorite topics. I haven't spoken at length with David Watson's there before, so I'm excited to hear what he has to say. Seems like a great guy, and he has some really interesting fiction novels that he writes, so that's exciting. I do have to say it, or I want to say hi to my cousin
Jim. This is kind of funny. You know. My mom told me, Hey, your cousin Jim listens to all your shows, and I was thinking, oh, that's great, I'm gonna say hi. And then of course he has to make it a big deal in the family and tell my aunt and they got to call each other back and forth. I'm gonna say hi on the show and make a big embarrassing deal out of it. So
sorry about that, Jim, but thanks for listening. It's always exciting to hear of other listeners out there that you didn't know you had, so that's really cool. A couple other things I wanted to mention. We have been picked up by another radio network. We're being played on black Volt Radio. That's headed up by John Greenwald, who started the Black Volt dot com type
of thing, and this is he's an amazing guy. We're going to have him on next month because as a high school student he started putting in Freedom of Information Act requests on UFOs and was receiving a lot of stuff. In fact, he's probably got I think he still has the largest database on documents. He even had people, I think it was a CIA or someone harassing him at his high school over this. And we'll be talking to him soon. He's a great guy. He always does the move on symposiums and does
the mcne there. But we're real happy to be on his network of great radio shows. I also want to remind you yet again, and I'll not be reminding you this in another month. Here a couple of weeks because it's Roswell and it's coming up real quick here the July fourth weekend, from the first to the fourth, it's the Roswell Festival in Roswell in New Mexico. Of course, the famous alleged UFO crash out there. That's gonna be a lot of fun. They have fireworks, they have parades, they have contests,
they have rides, they have a bunch of different vendors. It's always a lot of fun, So come check that out. You can read more about it at our website at openminds dot tv. And I do want to remind you you can also watch us live at open minds dot tv if you want. We have chat there or you can chat back and forth and you can ask questions from our guests, and you can also see us live. Me and Jason here, and we're looking really good in our open mind polos
here, so you're gonna want to check that out. That's at open mindsat TV. On the radio tab speaking of Jason. Every week we talk about some of the latest UFOs in the conventional media headlines, and we have our news correspondent Jason McClellan here to share the news with us. Hello Jason, greeting, z Alejandro, greetings, my friend, Hello Phoenix, and hello world. This is your Open Minds Newsbrief for Monday, June fourteenth, twenty
ten. I'll start with a story that seemed to pop up everywhere last week. AOL News just did a story on the well known UFO researcher Stanton Friedman, a friend of ours and someone we've had as a guest on the show recently. Stanton Friedman is a nuclear physicist who worked on highly classified programs involving nuclear aircraft and fission and fusion rockets. As he is mentioned in countless lectures around the world. Friedman told AOL News that we are dealing with a cosmic
watergate. Having investigated the UFO phenomenon for more than fifty three years, Friedman believes that there are people within major governments who have known some UFOs are alien spacecraft. Since nineteen forty seven, Friedman's research was instrumental and uncovering evidence related to the famous Roswell incident at seventy five. He continues to continues his research
and lectures frequently at colleges and conferences around the globe. And if you're lucky, you'll be seeing Stan Friedman here in Phoenix at the International UFO Congress in February twenty eleven. That is right, our congress, and we're going to have the famous Stan Friedman. Of course, people who go to these conferences a lot it to probably think I've taken him a million times, but he's always a lot of fun to see. He's very witty. He was on
our show and that was a lot of fun. And it's great to see. They were taking him very seriously too on these different articles that were written, and AO all seems to have picked up UFOs lately and they're writing serious articles. They should be writing a lot about it. And you're right, it's interesting the tone that they're taking with this. I mean, in the past, you know, if they happen to do an article on someone likes
Friedman, it was sort of goofy, sort of tongue in cheek. Yeah, but this seems to be, you know, taken very well, and a lot of media outlets picked up on the story. He's a great guy. Hey, he really you know a lot of people think, oh, it's basic stuff for people who have researched this a lot, but he's really a great spokesman for this field. He's very articulate, does a great job. He's a great speaker. He's fun to watch. The end of NASA's
Shuttle program has launched a new space race led by entrepreneurs. It would appear that Las Vegas based Bigelow Aerospace is leading the pack. The company is working on a thirty six person space hotel. And while this may sound like a wild idea that is decades away from being a reality. The company already has two inflatable test modules orbiting the Earth and hopes to have the hotel operating as
soon as twenty sixteen. If you're the kind of person who loves to plan your vacation well in advance, you can already book your stay at Bigelow's Space Hotel for the low low price of twenty five million dollars for a thirty day space vacation. Twenty five million gotta be saving my pennies. Maybe we could ship in, yeah, split it. We could probably share a room, right, Yeah, I don't know. With Ouffen pictures of those rooms and they're kind of cramped quarters. Yeah, well, you got it. You
gotta do what you gotta do. I'll wait. I think the price will come down. I have to find another roommate then we'll see. In UK news, British astronomers are constructing a major radio telescope to search for the origins of the universe and to find intelligent alien life forms. The first stage of the European Low Frequency Array or Low Far Telescope involves ninety six radio antenna being erected this week at the Chilboltan Observatory near andover Hampshire. Then another five thousand
antenna will be stationed all over Europe a supercomputer based in the Netherlands. We use digital electronics to combine this signals from the antenna to make images of the entire radio sky. The low Far telescope will also be able to monitor space weather and potentially search for alien intelligence. Pretty impressive piece of equipment there. A little similar to what said he's doing, but this is big for Europe.
It's interesting too because it's kind of like if people have seen the Heart program, which everybody's very afraid of, kind of this low frequency program going out of Alaska that there's lots of rumors about what they do with it, but it's similar. It's an antenna that comes out of the ground and it's pretty simple like that, and they're going to be putting these all throughout Europe. So Europe is going to be like this giant harp station. Keep it
simple. Stupid conspiracy party it's going to be going on there. This story is pretty cool. A Japanese space agency successfully unfurled a solar sale in space for the first time last week. Solar sale technology is important because it offers the best for deep space exploration by eliminating the need to carry fuel. I think it's really cool that we went from these super rocket booster space ships that go into space back to sales. Yeah, he's kind of neat. Back
to the sales ships. Well, I think it's Star Trek where that was like one of their first ships, the sales. So I wonder about the Space pirates. Is that next? Probably in other news, let's see some more European news. In a recent interview with Kursan, I always messed this guy's name up, Illy yums Enough, President of the World Chess Federation, he commented on the attention being given to recent statements he made during a encounter or let's see, I'm screwing my story up. Alejandro. It's such a
great Russian name, and I can't say it. Okay. He's a p in the World Chess Federation, he has been, and he's running for re election, and he commented recently on the attention being given to a statement he made about encounters he's had with extraterrestrials. He said that he doesn't understand why his statements are attracting so much attention now because he's talked openly about his encounters
for years, talking about people's resistance to accept these existence of extraterrestrials. He went on to say that most people have never seen God but still believe in the existence of God. Yeah. I mean he's standing by his ground. I mean a president of a country out there to bet or the Buddhist state out there, and he's standing his ground. He's not saying yo, they miss represented what I had to say or anything. He's saying, Yeah,
I hang out with aliens. You haven't it. It was slightly amusing because this story was in the New York Times. Yeah, but what's amusing is he was in the chess section of New York Times. Oh really, the only thing that has to do with chess is he's the president of the Chess Federation. But yeah, that is They had this nice article about his UFO encounters. Well, maybe the Chess Federation will go cosmic, you know,
interplanetary before any other organization, just because of his foresight. They're ready for it. Yeah. That's it for the news. Remember to check out these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news on your open line News correspondent Jason McClellan, and you've been briefed back to you, Alejandro. You know another exciting story about Mars this week. I don't know if you saw it just came out today. Actually was that? Of
course? And I think everybody kind of had already thought about this, But at three point five billion years ago, Mars was the blue planet that it had ten times more water and than the oceans here in Earth. So what was that was that? There I go. We keep finding new stuff about Mars almost every I know. It's absolutely incredible. It's just a I mean, at any moment now where they're gonna find something, and who knows if it'll be as small as a microbe or some kind of Martian whale that's ten
times the size of our whale. It seems that now that nuss, you know, sort of lessening. It's it's space exploration in part. There s needs to be a lot more stuff coming out now. All of these these probes that are out in space are coming back. There was one just recovered. If they recovered it in Australia, it's not a Japanese probe. He came back with samples from asteroids or something. Yeah, I can't remember the details on that, I can't, but it's very exciting. But it reminds
me of something too. It reminds me of the magazine. First of all, our current magazine, the second issue is out in the stores right now. You should be able to walk into your Bonds and Noble and it should be very visible as well as borders and borders, So go check out the magazine. And I'm excited about an article you wrote for the upcoming magazine on space critters at these UFOs could be critters, right. That'll be the August
issue, which is great. Includes a great photo that Jason took in Mexico of interesting ufo. I'm sure we'll talk about that more when it gets closer, exactly so. And this thing even almost looks like some sort of space Amiba, space Jellyfish. Yeah, space exactly so. Really exciting. And some great articles of course in this issue of the magazine that's all mostly centered around the Vatican and Vatican history, and there's a lot of great insight in
in that article, so check it out. You can go find out at openminds dot tv. Stay tuned for our wonderful guest coming up after the break, David Walks as Bear. You're listening to open Minds Radio. Open Minds Production is crowd to present the twentieth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress, coming to its new home with the Ratisonportment, gal Reysort and Casino at Southville, Arizona. This is the premier annual event for UFO researchers, enthusiasts, and
the general public with an interest in mysterious phenomena. Come listen to export ethologists, government officials, and respected scientists presenting information relating to the UFOs, extraterrestrials, crop circles, abductions, cover ups, and more. The largest UFO conference in the country, twentieth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress, takes place February twenty third through February twenty seventh. To the UFO Congress dot com for
more information, including sponsorship and vendor opportunities. You're listening to open Minds Radio with Alejandra Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. I want to remind you of one cool thing that you'll find at open mindstack tv, and that's some of the video stories that we've put
up there. We've got a great one on James Fox, who was our guests not too long ago, and that's something our video producer Tom puts up in awesome job editing these things together, so you're gonna have to check that out. We had him in the studio, James Box and did an interview, so it was a lot of fun. And this video interview that he put up is a lot of fun as well. Speaking of fun, I'm looking forward to having fun with our guests. David Watts is Bear and I
believe he's on the line right now. Are you there, I'm here, sir, I'm here. Oh right, great, it's good to hear from you. Yeah, you too. So I guess let's get started with You're an author, you write, a columnist, and you do all of these various things, and on top of it all, you're also a UFO researcher. Yeah. Well, probably the luster of all of them would be that
one. But I'm a novel it's a headfield. It's one of those things that I'm really fascinated with, though, Yeah, how did you get fascinated with it and become a researcher. Well, let's see, the first thing that I ever had, and I've only had a couple, so it's not like I'm like, I'm, you know, some kind of ficinado. But I think I was like fourteen. It went over my buddy's house, knocked on his door, and and you know, his brother came to the door.
He wasn't home, but while he was coming to the door, I could hear him in the kitchen working his way that way. It was night, probably uh leven o'clock at night, and you know, we were kids who were runing around chasing Back in the sixties, you could do that kind of stuff. And so I looked up in the sky and a lot of stars pretty night, you know, and watched this whole tiny blue light. It was just bouncing around, going every which way. I mean, it
was way way up there. That was probably back in sixty eight. I'm guessing sixty nine somewhere around there. Anyway, his brother has just got back from home from overseas, who was an air defense artillery in the army and stationed in Germany, and so I mean he was used to looking up in the sky. They did a lot of that kind of stuff, and so he came out. You know, the first thing I asked him, was you know that his day here? Your brother here? But anyway, he
looked up in the back. Is that neither one of us knew. We watched it for a few minutes. So at that point in time, I guess this a little blue light. Like I said, we was just dancing and bouncing all this sky and as a kid, we'd that's that's another story at a different time. But it was a little blue light that used run around our bedroom up in the ceiling. But yeah, just weird enough, you know. But anyhow, that was part of the reason why it fascinated
me, I guess. And then the next instance that that I ran into something like that was while I was an active duty in the Coast Guard. It was me and three other guys on a forty one foot utility boat out in Lake Michigan, and we'd chase these little orange balls across Lake Michigan Court
in the walk keeper. By about four and a half hours, I guess, we have any cases running it with a quiet night group gave us okay, and so we tried to get close to them, but these things would bounce up and down on the water and just you know, they would meld into each other and bounce away. It was bizarre. So in essence, I guess that's why it was always those things that stayed in the back of my mind. And I'm not good enough to think that that we're not alone
in my culture. Everybody knows what a starman is, you know, So anyway, so maybe let's talk about that, because that's one thing kind of like with me. You know, it's kind of a background with the Mexican background and Native American background, it's not as big of a deal. You know, it's like there's weird stuff out there in our culturally, it's not as big of a deal. And I mean, and that's pretty much the same with that Native American cultures often. Oh sure, it's a given,
is what you're saying. And that's just the way that is. You know that most leaves on a tree or green. You know, some maybe yellowsome, maybe orange, but as a rule they're green, and you accept that. It's just an everyday occurrence. It's part of life. You know, a rattles may can bite you, you know, you accept that. So yeah, you bet, it's within I mean, American Indian culture is pretty much generic and you know, and being being Mexicans, you're gonna end up
with with Indian blood and those cultures that mix in with the Spanish. It's all the same and generic speaking, I guess from one of the Indian nation to the next. The startment is just part and parcel of who we are, and we know they've always been here and a lot of interaction over the eons. Well, and you call it yourself kind of a novice when it comes to UFO research, But you spoke not too long ago at the moof On Symposium, and I know you've investigated a few cases. I know Ken
Ross is one of them. And also you have a book coming up on the Fort Dix incident. Yeah, yeah, MacGuire air Force based Fort Dix. Yeah, that's yeah. Ken Ross is the first novel ever written. And I'm not writing non fiction. I'm writing fiction, and I pretty much write whatever I'm interested in. I mean, the last one, I'm sure we may talk about that, and it's about American Indian witch, you know.
But the very first book that I wrote was called The Murmurings and all docue language that is, let's say say Quah, which means the murmurings that the trees and they had to do with the Ken Ross incident, and that was where that F eighty nine disappeared well up on an air defense mission to
intercept what it thought was a Russian bomber over Lake Superior. I'm sure you probably know this whole case anyway, but no, but yeah, some of our listeners don't, So that'd be great if you would share those details. Well, I'll try to nutshell as much as possible, And I think that's what it was at this point in time. This is nineteen This is November twenty third, nineteen fifty three, about six o'clock at night Eastern time.
So we were just coming on and coming into the Cold War. I mean, World War Two was over and we were just now beginning the Cold War. Intercontinental ballistics with missiles hadn't been developed yet, you know, so if we were going to be attacked by the Russians, you know, it was
going to be with an aircraft. So every air force base all around the country, I mean I'm talking about all around the country everywhere, had a combination of both fighters and before you seven bombers at that time, that was the way they were set up, and so we fully anticipated and expected at that point in time from a mill of serry mindset to be attacked, so
you're constantly on the on the watch for it. There were ground radar stations set up all around these bases, and by all around, i'm talking about
maybe a three or four state area. And at this in this particular incident on November eighteenth, nineteen fifty three, twenty third, nineteen fifty three, this this aircraft came over and it was bobbing around over Lake Superior at unheard of speeds for that time as a bomber for the size of the of the book that was showing and that type of thing it was, and it was kicking around at six seven hundred miles an hour, and that was that was
nuts. They knew it was something scary, and they knew it was It was the Russians. They just knew that. So they launched an F eighty nine fighter on an air defense mission. That means that he was charged with There's two actually two people in that aircraft, Like just like an F eighteen or an F fourteen, you've got the pilot and the real the rear, the rear operator. But Felix Moncla was the was the pilot and Lieutenant Robert
Wilson was the real officer. So they launched. They went up to intercept this thing, and they got within ten miles this aircraft, and this thing is just kind of holding study over the Q and Offensil over about forty miles over Lake Spirior, off the Q and Offensil, and all of a sudden
it shot across the sky and merged with that at eighty nine. Now, all these radar operators from Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan while watching this on their screens, All of these I mean hundreds and hundreds of Air Force personnel were watching this on their screens and seen this happen everybody in the control rooms, not just the radar operator. So it has happened and merged like that. At the same time that the two blips merged, you immediately lost all
squawk, all radio communication. That was it just and nothing. And then the large blip which was which had been what they called undireified aircraft at that time, and UA not UFO, the coined that term hadn't even coined yet to the point that we know it today. So it's up there for another forty fifty seconds or whatever, and then it shot straight south over Lake Michigan, very straight across the Upper Peninsula, right over Lake Michigan. This disappeared
and they couldn't talk and went updown, left, writer or sideways. It just disappeared. So the search that happened immediately after that, and I've talked to guys who were on Air Force PT boats. The Air Force actually have PT boats like PT one O nine, right, there were considered rescue boats. Nothing was ever gone to this aircraft, nothing was ever was ever found of wreckage, nothing was ever found of the pilots, never heard of from
again. Yeah, one of those incredible cases. Well, we're going to take a break. Thanks for sharing that story, and when we come back from the break, we'll talk some more about your research. But that's always an exciting one. The kin Ross won. We'll be right back after this. You're listening to Open Minds Radio. This is Open Minds Radio here again your host UFO paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome back.
We are interviewing Dave Watch's Barons, painter, tribal elder and author, a speaker, a syndicated columnist, and a bit of a UFL researcher. We just talked about the incredible ken Ross case and I had to cut you off there at the end. Was there anything else you needed to add to that? Now? We also, I'm just going to add this now. When on the novel first came out and once they got the reviews and folks started reading it, that kind of thing, you're always going to get feedback,
you know. So I did find out being a retired military guy, I expected full well, but there would have been two aircraft lawns. You always have a wing man when you go with The official action reports from from the US Air Force only indicated just that one they were a fighter wing that was that was actually covering over at ken Ross from the true Ax Air Force Base in Wisconsin, while the the the ken Ross Fighter Wing was out in
Arizona doing gunnery practice. Anyway, I had two guys, two different people emailed me that said that that they were actually stationed at Truex Air Force Base, And there was forty five minutes after that instant happened another F eighty nine that crash landed there. That came in hot, meaning that you know that
she'd been damaged somehow came in hot and landed there. There's no official record of that one any place, but there's something out there that tells you, wow, you know that kind of thing, So you think that was possibly the wingman? Now, Bob, I got vertible doubt about it, sir, I mean I almost go the way you got. Yeah, that is incredible piece of news. That's a. That's a it's an amazing case, Ken Ross, No doubt it is. There's no two ways around. It's
fascinating to me. But there are a lot of them like that, right, the one, the Fort Dixon McGuire one, and those are kind of bases that are close to each other. There's an army and air force and they kind of just separated by a fence. I think that's right. Yeah, And they've had a couple incidents, and which one are you kind of focused on in this book you're working on in nineteen seventy eight is the one where where the alien would allegedly and we have to say allegedly here was shot
by an army MP. So in that particular incident, what happened was that that the UFOs were actually winging around mostly over McGuire, the airport's base, and it's just like you said, just a fence line that devised the army Army base the fort and the Air Force base on the other side. And they did have some nuclear weapons, you know, and and hangars over there and these things were you know, flying over the top of them. So
the Air Force has what's called security police and air Police. I don't even know if they had air police anymore, but security police SPS. They were all going nuts, sirens going off, and obviously, you know, with Dix being right next door, the MP's got all geared up too, so they were running around going crazy, and everybody's looking for this. And so that's basically the instant that happened there. Do you want me to go through that one? What I know about it? Or yeah? That would be
great? Yeah, okay, Well, in essence, then what happened was that that the Air Force, the Air Force uh Security Command detailed this one particular airman. He was a security policeman and he had a young guy with him, a rookie who was like doing OJT. Military they do that to you all the time. So he had a rookie with him riding with him.
They sent him up to one gate. Now SPS I mean, you got to understand with with the way they used to do this is one guy would would stand a twelve hour watch just walking around in a B fifty two. That aircraft was his and on the base that would be his sole responsibility. So they have these guys go out and guard gater. You know, when they got some type of an alarm going on. Is not ad normal at all. And so they got out to this gate and the Army MP's
are on the other side. They're they're all driving around chasing these things. They were flying above them, these UFOs and when I say flying above them, their treetop high at this point in time for my research anyway. Wow. And so so this'sp gets out there and they're just basically watching this gate and they're both out of the car, him and his rookie and and they you know, they see the flashers on the other side of the fence line.
Knowing that the MP's are over there and their squat cars with their flashers going, they see one stop through the tree line, they can see the flashers going and and next thing you know, they hear forty five round. These guys know what a forty five gun sounds like when at fires, so they hear that forty five round, you know, and then and then they're moving around this way and moving around that way, and they don't have any
light out there except their spotlights on their patrol car. And then they find this dead body. His dead body, you know, it's the typical gray alien everybody always talks about. And so you know, he radios that back in and long story short, you know, the black suits come in and everybody does what they're going to do, and he ends up on gwamb. You know, he's gone the next morning to Guam. So it's those kinds of things. Nobody ever knows anything about the Army MP And when I write
my novel, it's it's based on that picture story. So, yeah, this is the same incident George Filer had talked about. It is exactly the same one. And he talked about, yeah, being the intelligence officer and coming to work and finding out about it and then them telling him to brief his commander and he was like, you want me to tell him what? Yeah, just like kind of like the Bentwaters deal, you know, I mean, you've got incredible people. Who are I mean, who are are
you know? Trying to relay information that nobody wants to hear. You know, it's it's it's that kind of a situation. Wow, yeah, it's those kinds of things are fascinating to me. I'm going to be at the Brillington Vortex conference and over Wisconsin coming up in October. And I went a year ago last May. I went to h to the one that was over in Illinois. Out of this World I think it was. But then Jesse Mark and I are pretty good friends. And Jesse and Marcell Junior and Devin
randall those kind of guys. I just I'm fascinated because they're around this stuff so much, they know so much more. You know, it's as an investigator I like to stuff. But yeah, yeah, they're great guys. Jesse, Marcell Junior. Of course a lot of these guys are going to be in Roswell. They're just really nice, great guys. It's always good to see them again. And you know what you're talking about some of these cases. Uh, how did you begin to come across some of this stuff
and and begin to investigate it? Well, it was just an interest, Like I said, I mean you've heard it. You probably know the song like Gordon lakefood. Have nothing else about the Edin Fitzgerald, right, remember that song and the Edmund Fitzgerald. But anyway was a was a great les Anker, uh freyer was a ship that was sunk mysteriously, and he sang this song, which is you know, anyway, it's just it's a it's
a I would be pretty much a great las tale more or less. But when I was in the when I was in the coast, that had access to underwater photos of that thing before anybody else would ever dove on it. For anybody else that's ever seen it, they were, you know. And I've seen things on that on that that ship cuffs setting perfectly, you know, on on tables that obviously couldn't have been there. She would if she went down in such a violent storm. We were things like that. So
stuff like that kind of piques my interest, you know. And I just I'm just a fat, old curious Indian anyway, So when I see something like that, it just kind of draws me in, you know. And and so UFOs are exactly the same way. It's the same way with with you know, with anything has to do with them, with the spiritual side of things, with most folks like that. Any man. I usually tell anybody this at last girl here, But but you know what I mean.
If you're a Pentecostal, the older you get, the more Pentic Gospel to become. And if you're a Baptist, the older you get, the more Baptists. If you're Catholics, no matter how it is, the older you get, the closer you get to who you are. And Indians are spiritual people anyway, and so the older I get, the more Indian I become, and so this kind of stuff. And it's like the Whitty Coup that we talked about and are started to talk about and are main talking you know,
those kinds of things. To me, I did want to talk more about that, the Witty Coup, because the shapes shifter you do have. We had Chris O'Brien on recently, and you know him and some of his buddies and colleagues, and they think that there's definitely a very big connection, even bigger than the extraterrestrial connection to these kind of legends of shape shifters in the Native American tales as opposed to you know, extraterrestrials with that kind of
stuff. My research and I mean, I just fertished this novel and I don't know when it's going to come out. Start in the synopsis the smaller stuff, theys and tomorrow. So I don't know how that's all going to work out. But I had a blast, you know, tell them the story. But what was even more fastinating for him some of the research. But I know what the Shawnee people think of it because I'm Shawnee, and I know what the blacks pep think of it because my grandmother was black.
But so but finding out what other cultures thought about it was interesting. By the other cultures, I mean, you know, just other Indians very much connected. And what I think I came up with this is just my take on this now, is that an awful lot of the sightings that you see, you know, as far as are here about you know, the moths man, maybe even the moth man the different things, just don'tcate all of
these kinds of things. I would think. I think we may be looking at its basically what most Indians would call a wing dingle or a which you know, a whittickkul, you know, the ties to you know, they'll sometimes they're tied to being Starman. But you know, I'm not thinking that's the case, but this is just my opinion. Do right, Well, let's talk more about that. We got to go to break in just a minute, and we'll talk more about the way coo and we'll have you define
that for us a little more. But I want to let everybody know at walks asbar dot com, that's walks dash as dashbar dot com is where you can come and see his books, uh and be able to see what they're about and also order those. So I wanted to make sure people knew about your website, walks dash as dashbar dot com. We'll be right back in a minute. We'll talk more about shafe, shifters and extraterrestrials, so stay tuned. You're listening to open Minds Radio. Welcome back to open Minds Radio.
Here now former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Minds Radio, Alejandro Rojas, Hello, and welcome back. You're listening to Open Minds Radio. We are talking with author David watss Bear about some of his books, and one of them in particular called The Witty Coop, and it's a shape shifter which if you could kind of explain that concept to people who may not be familiar. Okay, well, let's see, how
do you explain that? Okay, well, shape shifting is got to do with the spirit world, doesn't have so much to do with with the you and I share, you know, spirit world and within the spirit world, I mean, there are spirits around us all the time. So uh not all this from a traditional Indian point of view, right, So there are spirits around us all the time, and there are good spirits and there are bad spirits. Like forever up there is a down. Well for every left,
there's a right. You have good and bad spirits. Well, shape shifting is just an a facet of the spirit world and the bad spirit that we're talking about here is that whittakup or when dingle you know, it's it's a witch, it's it's a combination of of both both mortal and spiritual.
Does that make sense what I'm trying to say? So yeah to me, I think yeah, Well, in essence, like I said, and like we talked about earlier, I mean, these are just things that are that are given, things that that Indians take for granted, and I and I and having worked with them a lot of nice folks in my day. You teach English is the second language, and the guys that I work with most of the time, but pretty much the same way as I did. You know, so very common and very basic, you know, and and so
it's just one of those things that you take for granted. It's like drawn breast. Someone in the chat was kind of asking about interdimensionality and how you would relate that with the spirit world. Do you do you think it's the same thing. Well, I don't know. You know, there's everybody who's ever been in military will tell you there are things that are above their pay grade. And for me, that's double one of them, you know.
I mean, it's it's it's like, I don't know, you know, what the Creator does, how the Great Mystery does things is totally beyond my comprehension. I'm not I'm not even naive enough to think that I can figure it out. There are basic things that I know innately, and I think all two legates know. I don't care who you are. I don't care where you're from. I don't care what age you are, what color you are. You know what's right and what's wrong. You know what's good what's
bad. And folks often monkey with things that are bad because they're titillating or because they're interesting or fasceting, and a lot ways. You know, I feel that way about the UFO phenomen So I guess the interdimensional thing that you're talking about is something that I don't know anything about and can't say how it works. I mean, it's it's not part of my job or part of
my my need to know either need to know. And when in two thousand and three, after the murmuring came out, I was asked to be the keynote speakers to Move On symposium in Detroit, And so I went there and I was talking to these guys and you know, when I say these guys and all the folks out in the audience and and and you know, the person that has been on before me is say that, you know, they didn't really know about about you know, forty pounds of gravel they took off
and that was all there was to it. After they've seen this, this this UFO. And when I got up there, all I could think to say is, you know, yeah, that's that'd be me. I wouldn't be sticking around trying to figure out what it is, because there are definite things that that is, at least for me an Indian that I know, and that one of them is that not all things connected with the UFO phenomena are going to be good for you. You know. Do you know what
I'm trying to say about that? Yeah, very spooky and absolutely most things connected with shape shifting are not going to be good for you. Doesn't mean that A classic example that is is in this state. Let's see when I wrote a column back in two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, and it was about the Michigan dog Man. Have you have you heard of that before? Yeah? Okay, so I wrote a column about that.
I wrote a weekly column and so it was just one that I sent out and Linda Godfrey, who writes the Weird Michigan and Weird Wisconsin books and stuff, she called me and wanted to know if she could put the column on her website and I said, sure, you know, feel free because I went in it from a Native American or American Indian, you know, perspective
with the dog Man in the column. And she said, well, the reason she's calling is because the History Channel's going to do an episode on the Michigan dog Man, and she'd like to interview me, and I said, yeah, sure, and so she came up to do that, and we through this routine and I did my interview and explained all that and talked about shape shifting and how it works, and we were talking about the dog Man in particular, and I happened to think from my research anyway, and from
the you know, from the people of the Three Fires that I've talked to in this state. I'm Shawnee. My people are all from down Soall, and I'm in Michigan. But the people that I talk to here, you know, other Indians, the people the Three Fires of the shipwa Ottawa and pottle out of me. These guys all think that that you know that they're not necessarily malevol you know, they're just they're not really sure what they are.
But they're a little spooky, you know, I mean, but when they keep you explain what the dog Man is a little bit too, Yeah, dog Man, the dog Man. There are records here that I've personally viewed myself, well, all the way back to the French, the original French explorers here, and we're talking about the sixteen seventeen hundreds now and the
British Armies even got some recollections of them. Uh. And then you get into the newspapers and the time from the Blumbering Area era in this where we've got all these these people that are seeing these things there and newspaper accounts that run all the way back to the to the early eighteen hundreds of the dog Man and the dog Man is just seeing there's a really eerie song. There's finally on my website if somebody wants to hear, or there's frock is worth
it just for that. Yeah, But basically it's it's you know, it's legend, okay, And there's a difference between myth and legend. Myth is just something that is made up in legend that has some basis in fact. And so this is a legend. And by and by that I mean that, you know, if there's something to this, I don't know what exactly, but there are folks who are seeing it all the time and have been seeing it for hundreds of years. So it's a it's basically described as like
a wolf man or whatever. I've got sorry though, yeah, I've got the the one of the papers that are write for it is all the great legs pilot. They were on my house. But a while back they ran a picture and there's a picture of a wolf of us. Shout here a fellow who's a barber Michigan. This was this wolf was got in nineteen thirty five up in the Upper Peninsula and Van Mauras the county. This wolf man, I mean, this is now I mean wolf man like the wolf Man,
but I mean this wolf is just unbelievable. This thing was was seventh foot eleven inches long. This seven foot eleven inches long, way over still thirty nine inches that the this guy shot at during the firearms gear season, which in Michigan has traditionally always ran from the fifteenth November to the thirtieth of November. There's a picture of this thing here and there's two full grown men
black and white picture. These guys are wearing for doors and this and this wolf was probably about four footovers that is hanging up and it's about four foot over these guys. That's just huge, two hundred pounds that had a had a you know, a thirty nine inch had just unreal you know, when was his picture taken? Picture was taken in nineteen thirty five. Wow, seven foot eleven inches. The thing was this massive. The part of the
museum in Pennsylvania actually has the guy shot it. It was cased in three deer and this day was a deer hunting with a rifle. And he was a barber down and flint. But you know he had family connections in the ufter peninsul of the up as we call it here, and you know he was up here to go deer hunting with the family. And these three doughs came over the hill and he let those go, but he heard this big roar behind him, and this monster came up over the top of it.
This is back in nineteen thirty five when most of the wolves had been killed in this state. I mean the timberwolf. This thing's massive. Everybody as big as a full grown man. I mean the mouth when you open the mouth, you know from the bottom of the jockice, I'm a game more than in Michigan. That's what I do for a looks. So we opened the bottom of the mouth and raised the top of the mouth up like this. We had an eighteen inch spread with a fourteen inch width on it.
So you were talking about about something that's just massive. Yeah, I don't know where that fits in the shape shifter thing, but obviously it died. He shot it four times before it finally killed. It incredible. Well, I hate to cut you off. I mean if these shows always go so quick and we're already out of time. So thank you so much for being on the show. It was great going over these stories and we'll definitely need to have you on again to talk more about some of these things that we
didn't get to, but I'd appreciate it. It was a lot of fun and extremely interesting. So I want to thank you. Some people in the chat. We're having a lot of fun. One of the people who asked about the interdimensionality wanted to say thank you too. They agreed with what you had to say back there, so that the new way. Yeah, thank you, thanks for being on the show. Remember walks dash as dashbar dot com is the website. Next week we're going to have Paul Davies. This
is exciting. He is a producer and a director, a writer. He did the Roswell movie The Great Movie showing on Showtime in nineteen ninety four, starring tol McLachlan and Martin Sheen, so we'll be interviewing him about Roswell and other things to get ready for the exciting Roswell Festival. Thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio, your UFO new use Authorny, talk to you next week.
I know the times leave Cansla thing if you watch your feet. The cracks in the plot up Alien sob like a whole movie for the folks back home