Clifford Clift, MUFON Change of Guard

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO news authority presenting evidence on the latest news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your host, Alejandro Roja. Wait for the music to pay and we are on. Thank you so much for joining us. This is Open mind Radio where we talk about UFOs, the Simpsons once in a while, we talked about That's about it though, really aliens, and we talk about Jason's hare that

try. Thank you for reminding me. Is cool. Little fohak going on. Sometimes it's a real mohawk. It's up to you. I don't know. We'll ask you later in the show more about that. We have a great shows. Today. We have the ex director of moofon, Clifford cliff And I was thinking about it, and I think that by far, Clifford has been the wittiest movefon director in history. And this is an organization that's

been around since the late sixties, so that's saying something. And I'm going to prove my words by having him on the show later today because he is so witty, he cannot help himself but make some jokes and be a funny guy and so we will prove that later on, because he certainly will not be able to resist when we talk. He's a great guy. He just actually recently retired from MoveOn and as a director, and so we'll talk to him about that. I know some of you mayfield there is some sort of

controversy and maybe you know, the government caught to him. We'll ask him or that. Maybe he said, you guys are jacked. I'm out of here, So we'll ask him about that. Honestly, though, I already know it's nothing that exciting. It's just that he needed to retire. He's an older guy. He's been retired from business for a while now, and he has worked so hard for the last years with move On and he wants it to continue in everything, but he just doesn't have the energy anymore to

keep it up. He's gonna kind of tone down a little bit and relax and spend time with his family because he wants to Actually, you know, when you retired, extra time to spend time with family, and he wants to do that before the end. So we will talk to Cliff about some

of the great UFO cases that he experienced during his years at Moufon. We will talk about maybe some of the trials and tribulations and what he found difficult, but what he found good and great and what maybe we don't see as a general public when it comes to the behind the scene, some of the magic behind move On. If anybody as would know that, it'll be Cliff. So it's going to be great. I always love having him on. And he is going to be speaking at the UFO Congress coming up in a

couple of weeks here, so that's great. He has a lot of cases move On cases that he's real excited about that he wants to present, so he will be there doing that. So we're excited to see Cliff again. He's always a lot of fun. If you were at the Congress last year, you remember we he sent us kind of a video hello to the Congress that we played there and that was a lot of fun too. So now he will be there in person, so that's wonderful, I think. So

we'll talk to him in just a few minutes. It's going to be a lot of fun, and it's going to be extremely informative and you are just going to have a really good time as usual listening to Openminds Radio speaking of having a really good time. Maureen is helping to coordinate the UFO Congress and she's a lot of fun, and that's another reason you want to come to the UFO Congress in two weeks. Ladies and gentlemen, this thing is rolling

up on us. You're going to see Stephen Greery. You're going to see Colin Andrews. You're going to see Whitley Strieber. You're going to see some of our buddies who we've had on the show recently, Lee Spiegel. You're going to see Bryce Zabel. You're going to see Ben Hansen from the hit television documentary series fact or Faked where they're talking about UFOs and he has some

incredible cases he sent us lately that he says are absolutely amazing. You're going to see a general, Ladies and gentlemen, and this is a general from a cun tree that is actually doing real official government UFO investigations and this guy's in charge of it. So this is yeah, this is gonna be really

cool. Jason Toil excited. You should see him over here. He's Twitter paid, I think would be the good word, speaking of which, You know Twitter, if you follow the open mind Stevie Twitter, you'll be able to get up to date on all the latest and greatest and link A Tai, who we've had on the show. I guess is now signed up for the Congress. I think I heard with the latest news. I think this is some rumor that I heard around here. But she's from the area,

so I'm sure she'll be there. There's going to be other people that'll be there, even if they're not going to be speaking, such as Grant Cameron and Paala Harris. Some other speakers are people that we've had on the show recently. I know a lot of people love the Grant Cameron show. I did because Grant Cameron is awesome and I love his research, so that was

really cool. Yes, Dan Romanek from Yeah Sure, he was pretty much one of the most popular speakers last year, and he's going to be there selling books because he has a new one out and his wife and we talked to her about that and we'll do that again. Maybe we'll have just her by herself, but we talked to her about the book she's working on that is now finished, and you'll be able to get that. Maybe some of

you saw them in Phoenix. They came here a few months ago and they had a standing room only audience where people had a lot of fun and her book wasn't finished then but it is now, so you'll be able to get that. And the other show stopper, actually last time, the big show was Travis Walton, who will be speaking again. He's the only one speaking

again for a second time in a row. And then everybody's favorite, especially if you live in Mexico, Jimaan was Was soon will be there and he'll be doing a Spanish So if you are speaking or listening to the show and you can't understand it because your primary language is Spanish and you don't know much English, but you listen anyway because you like to hear Ufo once in a while and go, oh yeah, Ufo and that's great. Hi, Mason

s Moussan, I start a key in Febario. I don't know a whole lot of Spanish, but I'm pretty sure I just told the Spanish list speaking listeners that him is going to be here in February. I'm pretty sure that's what I said. So anyway, we are talking to Spanish media because he's going to address and have a Spanish kind of an address along with the General from Chile. We'll also of course speak Spanish, so that's going to be really cool. So there's a lot going on. It's a beautiful venue and

it's a lot of fun. So it's coming down to the wire. If you've been planning on going and you've just been procrastinating, you better go register. So UFO Congress dot com. Is there anything I forgot Jason? Okay, Well I just mentioned Jason, and who is someone that you know?

When you mentioned this guy, people get excited. There are teenage girls screaming at the top of their lungs right now because they are just so excited to hear from Jason McClellan, who is always on the show every week to tell us about the UFO news that he follows on a daily basis. And this week, yet again, we have some spectacular news. Jason, thanks for being on the show again. Tell us all about this wonderful UFO news from

this week. I am happy to do so, my friends, and I am happy that I'm the one delivering the news and not you, because apparently your fact checking isn't very accurate. Uh oh, I don't know about your teenage girls. Story. Oh well, you never know. I think there are. They're out there, all right, I can almost hear it now. No, that's just Maureen civil. I'm wrene. All right. Well, greetings everyone. This is your Open Minds newspried Fer, Monday, February

sixth, twenty twelve. I like this story, Alejandra. This is a strange, cool story from a couple weeks ago. But translucent blue spheres rained down from the sky in Dorset, UK during a hailstorm two weeks ago. According to Popular Science. British authorities say the quote tiny one inch gelatinous spheres are odorless, are not sticky, and are not meteorological end quote. Former aircraft engineer Steve Hornsby discovered approximately twelve of these spheres in his yard on the

afternoon of Thursday, January twenty sixth. The BBC explains that Hornsby kept the object in his freezer to prevent them from melting, but later determined that it wasn't necessary because the objects don't melt at room temperature. There is speculation that these mysterious spheres could simply be quote marine invertebrate eggs that stuck to a bird's feet and were carried into the air. But for now, as Popular Science explains, quote, no one has any real clue what they are. Interesting.

I actually did not hear about this story. This is the first time I'm hearing about this. It wasn't picked up by very many places. The Popular Science had an article on it, and they showed pictures of these blue gelatinous spheres and they rained down on this guy's yard and he collected them, some of them kind of shattered but somewhere still intact, and he put them in his fridge, but then took them out and kind of squishy little balls.

Did he try to eat one? Oh? I hope not. But you know, our colleague Maureen made a good suggestion, and that you know, we've seen blue things from the sky before, and blue that's the dangerous indicator that it could be some dumping from an airplane lavatory. Oh, which just happened. But you know, that might make sense if it were solid, you know, melted or frozen from being high in the atmosphere and coming down. But this remained in this ball form, so weird. I don't

think it was toilet material. But hopefully someone will analyze it to figure out what the heck, this is yeah. I mean, the only theory they could come up with was this marine invertebrate eggs, which seems kind of weird. I mean, these didn't look like eggs to me, but I'm not a marine biologist. I don't know about eggs of birds or anything. But these were squishy, blue, kind of yellow balls. Very strange, very strange. Yeah, I'm surprised more people didn't pick up on it. But

yeah, because that's weird stuff. That's cool. But I'll keep looking for additional information on that. I hope they do some sort of testing or something. It's fascinating. Very another great story out of the UK. They always delivered the good stories. Yep. Well here's a good story from Mexico. A UFO over an airport in Mexicoli, Mexico, last week, and the craft was reportedly pursued by the police. According to Lavaze de la Fronterra,

police received hundreds of calls about a strange device in the air. The UFO was seen in the area of the Mexicoli airport and was described by witnesses as a round object emitting white light. Witnesses also reported seeing blue and yellow flashing lights on the object. One of the police officers who pursued the object explained that the UFO moved at a very fast, very fast speeds, moving up,

down and sideways, and would suddenly change its course. The website io nine suggests that the UFO recorded on video over Tijuana, Mexico on January twenty seventh, could be the same UFO that taunted police in Mexicali, as they say, but that's just speculation they made. So there were two UFOs, one in Tijuana and one in Mexicoli. They weren't necessarily related, but they what they look like seemed to share a little bit of similarities based on their

description. But the one that received hundreds of calls from witnesses and resulted in the pursuit by police is pretty fascinating. And it was on video. Someone got a video, Yeah, and I mean the video doesn't tell us a lot. It's a bright light in the sky, although it was this was a daytime one, right, I'm pretty sure this was a daytime one or was it night I can't remember right now, but a bright light in the

sky, but it's still hard to tell what it might be. So here's another one where the video alone doesn't tell you a whole lot, but the cops saying that they chased it and that it zoomed around, and the witness testimony, it's odd behavior, changing directions very quickly. So if those witnesses

are telling the truth, then this is something pretty strange up there. And as we like to point out, we like to when we get to testimony from people like police officers, like military officials, that lends credibility to their testimony. I mean these are trained observers. Yeah, so that's a very interesting one. Right. Well, here's some space news. NASA's Kepler spacecraft launched in March two thousand and nine with the mission of discovering potentially life supporting

planets, and we talk about Kepler a lot on this show today. Kepler has discovered more than two thousand planet candidates and sixty one confirmed planets. According to Scientist, one of these recently confirmed planets is the best candidate for a planet capable of supporting life. This giant planet called and again they didn't let us down with their exciting names. Yeah, brace yourselves, and I expect you to remember this. The planet is called GJ six' six seven capital

C little c boring, yep, boring. Well. This planet is at least four and a half times as massive as Earth, and according to space dot com, Achiease of scientists determined that the planet's location is within the habitable zone of its star, and as we mentioned before, this is a narrow region where temperatures are neither too hot or too cold for liquid water to exist on the planet's surface. One of the scientists stated this planet is the new

best candidate for supporting liquid water and perhaps life as we know it. Space dot Com explains that the researchers suspect quote potentially habitable alien worlds could exist in a greater variety of environments than was previously thought possible. That's based on these new findings. The team's research will be published in the Astrophysical journal Letters GJ. So let's call it Gojo or gadja. They really need to worry. Let's call it Gojo. This is a Gojo system, and this is Gojo

c Okay, that's timing to refer to it so we can remember. But another interesting thing is it wasn't about that. Yeah, I thought this was kind of cool. It wasn't the Kepler people who found this it was a different group, and what they decided was Kepler's looking at stars that are thousands of light years away, so they wanted to focus on the stars that are

closer. And so this one is relatively much closer twenty two light years away as opposed to thousands of light years and so this one is a good candidate. And it's not that far, and it would only take if we sent a robotic probe out there to check it out, it'll only take one hundred years to get there. Yeah, that's much closer. Yeah, but I think that's probably like Google though, where you google the map and it tells you how long it's going to take, but it tells you if you go

the speed limit. So maybe if we crank this puppy up, we can get it there a little quicker to figure it out. Although they are going to do that thing where they can look at it and try to figure out by the colors the gases on the planet. Maybe they can find some methane so they know there are a lot of animals down there that are gas gassy, gassy animals, so they can tell evidence of gassy animals. But it's actually that's a planet of gas the animals we need to Animals are gassy on

this planet. Animals emit gas or methane producing cones. Yeah, yeah, you emit gas probably only I've never witnessed it, I don't think though, only while I'm on the air. But there's some certain and I won't name their names, but there are definitely other co workers here at Open Minds where I have witnessed that gaseous emission and it wasn't a please pleasurable thing, but I could see how it could be measured because they're powerful. You're measured conditions

here. Yeah, I'm gonna get in trouble so, but yeah, that's kind of cool that they're looking at closer once because that this is relatively close so and I think it will be a big deal. I mean, if that there's life fairly close relative in space terms, that's more evidence that there could be intelligent civilization. Something are very important and very good that's coming out of these It seems with every new planet they discover, is that the search

for extraterrestrial life. We're looking at these planets. Each one they find, they have to reevaluate how they search for extraterrestrial life. They discover things and determine well, well, based on these findings, we need to readjust because now we know that these planets are more common than we thought. Now we know better what to look for, and everything gets readjusted, and it kind

of starts over again. Yeah, and they really are going to be looking at the gases to see if there's life evidence in the atmosphere for life. But exactly here again yet again, and we keep hearing this over and over and over again that we didn't think there would be life there, but now it's looking like there is possibly life there. So now we already have this increase of possible planets that could possibly harbor life, and now that increases even

more so here again more evident of life. And I think that once we discover life out there, which is a matter of time, I think people will then really be open to Wow, if really life is that abundant then there is. I think they'll take even more serious the possibility of civilizations and think even harder about some of these unknown objects that hey, you know,

maybe we are being visited. And another great thing to take from this story is that it's just another example of as you pointed out, this wasn't necessarily the just specifically the Kepler team who did this study. There are researchers all over the globe evaluating the data that's coming back from Kepler and similar studies. So you have scientists all over the world taking or actively participating in the search

for extraterrustrial life. And these are mainstream scientists. So again it illustrates the point that science is interested in extraterrustrial life and they're actually looking for them.

And I want just another quick point because this is something I keep thinking of about mainstream science and the search for extraterrestrial life, is that you know, even in our media and our entertainment, especially in Star Trek, there's this big idea of course that if in the future we were to go out there and find extraterrestrial civilizations, we would leave them be if they were less developed than us, and we would hide our presence, but we would study them.

I mean, this is an old theory that's been out there for a long time. It's surprising that mainstream scientists are imaginative enough, even though they are sci fi fans, A lot of them are creative enough to think that that is a possibility of what we're experiencing right now. It's just kind of shocking to me that they wouldn't give more credent to that idea because it's not that much of a leap, and even if we hypothesize that's how we would

react in the future. I just it is kind of shocking how closed people are to that idea. They seem extremely close to it. Yeah, I don't find it. That's shocking. What's up with that demonstrated behavior and what is up with them? Well, Alejandro, I'm going to briefly give some sad news. UFO researcher Lou Ferish passed away on January twenty sixth. He died of cancer, but he reportedly died peacefully, was not in pain, and was surrounded by a small group of friends. Lou is a well liked

and humble researcher. He's remembered for his UFO news clipping service, as well as his founding the Ozark UFO conference. And Alejandro, this is really cool because Lou did not have a wife, children, or siblings. He left his estate, including eighty acres of land, to a trust to be used to encourage UFO research and education through awards, fellowships, and many grants over the next several years. Oh, that's great. I didn't know them.

That's really cool. And you can read more about Lou and what he's done on openminds dot tv. Antonio June has showed a nice article. Antonio and he were good friends over the years, so check that out on openminds dot tv. Yeah, what Lou did was really important because before the Internet, you know, he had to actually go cut out these newspaper clips and he would copy them and send them to thousands of people and all the big researchers

so they could keep up to speed on the media. Before there were like news, they were like twitter feeds, like we have that update people on the news, mao mail twitter feeds. Yeah, yep. And I have no idea how Lou did that. That seems like a terrible undertaking to do that in a time before the internet. You know that somehow gathered these news articles from around the country, from around the world. Yeah, important work

too, so and he was well loved so so he was. He was an early version of the Internet. Yep, Google news feeds, yep. Yeah. Well did you watch the Super Bowl? Now? Yeah, I only caught half of it, But if you didn't know this past Sunday yesterday was the Super Bowl here in the United States, the American football championship game,

and historically it's been the most watched program on American television. In fact, that twenty eleven Super Bowl had the largest audience ever for a US television broadcast at one hundred eleven million viewers, and this year's big game broke last

year's record reached one hundred and eleven point three million viewers. But in addition to breaking the viewership record again, something else from the twenty eleven Super Bowl was repeated this year, and that was the appearance of extraterrestrial themed advertisements.

I think that's happened every Super Bowl ever, probably, and that shows that advertisers know there's this public interest because, as we've mentioned before, I wrote about it last year and I wrote about it a little bit again this year. But advertisers spend millions of dollars for these thirty second spots. This is

like the prime advertising of the year for these people. They spend millions of dollars for a couple of seconds to advertise their product, and it seems over and over they're choosing to use extraterrestrials or an extraterrestrial theme to pitch their product to the public, especially during the Super Bowl. It seems too because maybe they're more theatrical and they spend more mo any on those. But during the regular season, you know, you don't see as much of that, but

definitely in the super Bowl. Some of the most popular UFO commercials have come out during this or et commercials that have come out during the Super Bowl. It'd be interesting for someone to compile us. That would be interesting. It would be interesting. There was a lot last year, and a lot of the UFO related movies, yeah, tend to advertise and advertise first during the

Super Bowl. Battleship Battleship just did theirs during the Super Bowl. And I haven't really seen much advertising for Battleship right in terms of advertisements on TV. But they certainly showed a spot during the Super Bowl. You know, last year they did Cowboys and Aliens. Oh was that it? Or was it Super eight? Also, I don't think they did Super eight. Maybe they did to last year and I don't remember what the other one was. But

car commercials, car commercials have been using this a lot. Last year, Kia did theirs where the car gets abducted, and well they even had the Mayan thing in that same commercial. And this year Chevy stole both of those themes in two different commercials. But they had one that was a Mayan Apocalypse twenty twelve type thing and there was a crash UFO and that one. Yeah, but this other one has a bunch of little extraterrestrials in the car with

a garage, so funny commercial too. They're both actually pretty funny. Yeah, they're they're pretty good. But again it's an illustration showing that they know that there's this huge public interest in the subject. Well especially and probably because this is the group as we know from our buddies and from the TV shows, it's mostly older males who are into football and into UFOs. They're the ones that are the most watch the shows the most and everything. So it's

a good fit and cars and cars and chicks target demographic. Yeah. Well, Alehundra, I wanted to talk about this story to finish off the news because I know you recently wrote about it. Well, this was an interesting one from last week. On Thursday, February second, witnesses across Texas, Texas and Oklahoma reported seeing a large fireball shooting across the sky another fireball UFO.

The object was even caught on the patrol on the dashboard camera of a police chief in Little River Academy. Police Chief Troy has said quote, it kept getting bigger and the colors kept changing. But according to the Daily Mail, the FAA says the bright streaking light was most likely a meteor. Yeah,

and this one at what I piqued my interest. One of the things in this story is that what some of the witnesses said they saw, which is this big bright light going through the air with stuff coming off of it, was similar to what I saw when there was similar sighting over California and Nevada and Phoenix here or Arizona. But what I saw what broke up. But there are so many people that saw so much, it seems that what I saw wasn't the only one, although it was one of the most amazing

things I've ever seen, this huge thing breaking up in the sky. And what you saw in some of the description from this one too. You know that the colors are similar, and that's what you see with some of the larger meteors, the greenish color. Yeah, so it's kind of weird. And maybe we're capturing more of these on film because there's more cameras and stuff around. But pretty weird. And some of the witnesses are like, man,

I don't know if that really was the meteor. It's really right and depending on you know, if it was an actual extraterrestrial craft, you know, who knows what the material it would be made out of. But you know, that's why you see the different colors, the green and whatever colors from these media is based on its composition. So composition of a craft coming in crashing to Earth, I suppose could look similar. So that probes on hot remember that the very hot those look like a meteor, but they were

probes that came up and then HANSI had to blow up, right. And the interesting thing with these fireball UFO is that we you know, seem to report on over and over and over again. A lot a lot of people are seeing these more frequently. Now. Is their their impact site is really reported about? Yeah, no impacts. Yeah, So it's very strange.

It's kind of weird. This keeps happening reminds me of a terrible movie Battle Lily, but the special effects were kind of neat when on that perfect I still harn't watched it because you special effects are fun, but it's kind of a dumb story if you just you know, go into it knowing that you might have some fun. Yeah, well, good to know. All one hundred. That is it for the news. Remember, everyone, you can check out all of these stories and so many more open Mindes TV your source

for uf OVERLA news. I'm Jason McClelland your Open Minds News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to you Aleandro. Thank you, Jason. Remember you can read all these stories and Openminds dot DV and the text is a video

you can see at UFO DailyNews dot com. And remember that's also where you can go if you're not on Twitter, you can go to UFO Daily News dot com com and hit the UFO news feed and those are all the Twitter links where you can see all of the headlines from around the world on not just a daily basis, but practically hourly, so lots of stuff going on there. But we're gonna do something we actually have Usually we pre record the shows and these days, but this time we are doing it live and so

We're actually gonna dial Clip up right now. And you know what happens when we do that. We do some dialing music. So it's dial do do do do do do do do do do? We are dialing Cliff baa baa bood Hello, We're talking to Cliff. Hello. Pay the answer to the phone, Cliff. I just talked to him Clip speaking Hey. Thank you, because you know, when I dial people, I do a little dialing music and I was stretching it and it wasn't It was kind of losing quality.

So I'm glad that you answered when you did because you spared our listeners the rest of my dialing music. But thank you so much for being on the show again. You're welcome, Alejandro. It's nice to be with you. I have given you a title and I hope you like it. I think you will. And earlier in the show because I said, out of all the move on directors going back the decades at this organization has been in existence, that you were, if nothing else, by far, the wittiest

director they've ever had. Well, I think I thank you for that. And that's it, you know, I mean that as a very it seemed compliment. Well, thank you very much. Yes, that's very nice of you to say that humor is always part of what I think is important in life, you know, And that's a good question to start off because you

are witty and I think that that is important and other people. Has that helped you to kind of bring up and talk about this subject which can be uncomfortable for some people, It definitely has, Alejandro, Sometimes people just take themselves too serious and we have to be aware of the fact, in my opinion, that life is important. It's very precious, but we have to be able to stop smell the roses and laugh a little bit along the way. M h yeah, definitely. I mean, and you know, it's

it's just like everything. I think that it's always important to have a little bit of lightness brought because if you get too down in anything, you know, it just makes it can actually have bad health repercussions and that you stress out. But it also can hamper you from moving forward exactly exactly. If you're free your mind up, you're able to be more productise, more positive and upbeat, and humor is a vehicle that I like to use to do that. Well. I'd love to talk about this. I want to hear

about your experience because I loved this. I thought it was great. Some people didn't. You know, those are probably people who need to lighten up a little more. But you were appearent on I think last time you were on it, it hadn't aired yet, and it did air, but your apparent's on the Colbert Report. No, it was John Stewart. Oh, it was John Stewart. Actually, okay, yes, you know. Did

you have fun with that? What were your thoughts on that? Well, first of all, they I knew it was going to be a comedy show, and I had been warned about this. They flew me to New York and put me up for the night and drove me around in a limousine to the shoot the set or the shoot site at the park in New Jersey.

And when we got there, then I saw Wyatt who is on the show, and he was there and I thought, I've never never I've never seen so I may not have medicine press right, but anyway, I'm getting any feedback here? Here are we? Okay, Yeah, everything sounds okay. On this night. I will I'll continue to try to talk with this. But here's the funny thing about it. I spent an hour trying to are

you there, Alejandro, Yes, okay. I spent an hour of the shoot trying to be serious and talk about MW Fawn and what we were doing, and that was going nowhere, so I thought, okay, I just as well play along now. The part that I thought was the funniest was when Wyatt dressed up like an alien and the kid prepped me. Prior to this, there were about eight people out there doing the shoot, and they prepped me and said, Okay, what would you say if an alien walked

up to you? And I said, well, where they're from, what they're doing here, how they got here, and why they're here. So okay. So they put Wyatt in a suit and alien suit with a big head, and he had a keyboard from a computer and he came walking up to me going I said, Hi, where are you from? And he said, well, our old plates and I said, looks to me like you came from your anus. That was never shown. That would have been one of the best jokes. Yeah, it would have been, so anyway

it was. It was Some people were very upset with it, but the fact of the matter is we got more positive comments and membership grew because of that show than anything we had done in that period of time. So it was a very beneficial thing for Upon, although it was at the expense of me and Upon. As far as the humor goes, although you know, I don't know so much personally. I here's my perspective on it is that

it got the word out. There are a lot of people that are interested in this topic and they don't know Mufon is there, and now they are aware. So I'm sure they went there to find out what you guys were all about. And I mean they make fun of everybody, so you had a good and you know, sense of humor about it. But they also interviewed the NASA guys, and you know, they're making fun of the NASA guy saying, why aren't you doing what Moufon is doing? You know,

China, you don't have a star team. Yeah, you guys don't even have a star team. This is ridiculous. No wonder you last year funding. So he made fun of them just as much. And that guy didn't really seem to have a sense of humor about it, No, he was not. As a matter of fact, after our shoot, Wyatt said to me he says you're really a good guy. Yeah right, yeap. So

it was an exciting thing. Yeah, we got some bad press on it, but you know, the good press outweigh the bad in the long run, I think, so, you know, because even I'll get that and I can understand their perspective. I can always understand people's perspective, mostly when they get hold of it. Yeah, but I get that sometimes. Oh, you know, this is a serious subject. I like your show and

you have serious people on, but you goop around too much sometimes. But you know what, Yeah, I just don't think it's healthy to really let yourself get too worked up about a lot of things, because otherwise, you know, it's not healthy. And you know, being light I think also allows your brain freeze, your brain up to be more creative, to come up with more and better ideas on how to approach this, and you reach a larger audience. You're exactly right. Yeah, I can overplay humor.

I have to be careful of that sometimes, but in the long run, I think the humor is important. It helps people. Yeah. So the big question is, and you've already answered this for people who are in Moufon.

You've written about your retirement and this month, which it has only been a few days, that you're not the director anymore, and maybe if you could just let people know the details behind it, because I know some people are thinking that you may be fed up with move on, or there's some kind of the government got to you and said, hey, you better cut it out. I wish we were as important as all of that where the government comes to us and says, you guys have to knock it off.

We are not that important to the government period. That's that's just silliness. The government doesn't care what we do. They may and they're not. They have not infiltrated new Fon. Why would they. They don't need to. If they want any of the information that we have, all they have to do is go to our website or if they want to monitor our emails, they can do that. There's nothing secret from the government. But so it's

just that's kind of silly. But the reason that I did step down is I need to the two years that I was there as International Director, Alejandro,

we're very difficult times financially when we started out. When I took over, we were having some very significant financial problems and that took about six months to a year to get that result, and then we had the other conflict that developed, and that took another eighteen well another year to get through all of that, and so I was in crisis management primarily that my whole term. Well, that takes a toll on a person mentally, and I was

able to overcome it through humor and through my belief in God. So that was fine. But the big thing was I wanted to do some other things I really do. I'm seventy two and I don't have that many years to do the things that I want to do, and I can't give MUFON a

thousand percent or anything else if I want to do other things. And probably the primary thing was is my oldest son has stage four colon cancer and just got out of the hospital here again two days ago yesterday as a matter of fact, so I wanted to spare more time with him in the family,

and I can't do all of this stuff. So MUFON was the one thing that I had to remove myself from, which makes sense, I mean, completely understandable, because I don't think people realize and I tried to emphasize this always is that there are move on takes a lot of work to run just the basic day to day getting it done. Keeping this organization existing takes so

much effort. You board members, especially people like you, not so much with all the board members, but I know because I've had some insight, and of course I'm not going to name names or anything, but some people, especially you have always put in a lot of work for many years, and I don't think people realize that. And then you have, you know, these people in the States, and it's hard to run even a state

organization that takes a lot of work, let alone the national part. So you have these pockets of people out there working really hard to keep the organization running. And it's because of all these people. It's been around for so long. And I know you've put in a lot of hours for many years. Yeah, that's the thing. I don't think the average person realizes how much time and effort goes in to what a state section director, the investigators,

the state directors, the chief field investigators. How much time these folks put in. And then you go to Fletcher Gray, thet our team manager, and you go on to Morgan Bell that's director of Technology, and the people that are working with him. The time and effort these folks are putting into this organization is just unbelievable, and they believe they have a passion. We're all after the same goals, the education and investigations of that type of

thing. And then of course you have the board of directors who put in a significant amount of time continually all the time trying to make sure that we're financially stable and we have the right people in the right places. And of course they're all volunteers, Alandro, so we just rely on the integrity of the character of the person that's the volunteer to do a job, and so it does. And then its course. As the international director, it's twenty

four to seven. We you know, we're representing twenty five foreign countries and there's a lot of time difference there. So if you're not getting phone calls and emails, you're you're thinking about how to promote and to best execute our goals and the methods of getting there, and it's a very time consuming thing.

And of course that's I don't have the time to do that with my son and with the things that I want to do with my family, and they wouldn't be fair to mupon for me to try to continue and not being given the percent of one thousand percent I need to and even more important, I mean, and this comes into play. It's something people have to I realize people like in your situation and others you it wouldn't be fair to your family. I mean, you need to spend some time with them, especially

when it comes to trying times, and that's so important. So you know what you put in your time, and I want more time. I mean, I know you've I've been there to see it and that you've put in so many hours. And uh, I think that you deserve definitely thanks from everybody in this who's interested in this field, because it's important way you've done to keep it going. And you know, thank you for all the work

that you've done. Well, thank you for saying that. That's very nice of you, and you're welcome and everybody is welcome for what I have done. I the thanks to just I can't tell you how many people have emailed me and called me and and thank me for what I've done and wishing well

for the family. So it's just been really rewarding. And you know, you've talked about some of the trials and tribulations, and I know there have been some hard things going on in the last few years, and maybe we'll talk about what's been some of the biggest hurles or hardest things for you. But I do have to say, from my perspective from someone who's following my thing is, you know, I'm typically mostly following mainstream media and what they

think of this topic and how they cover this topic. And you know, MoveOn has done very well during your tenure with mainstream media because mostly you all are seen in the news out there. It's rare these days and you shall not be like this that it's rare these days to see an article that's just solely ridicule. If MoveOn's in the article, it's probably it's often referring to move On as experts. Often you have skeptics, people are saying, well,

we were not so sure that was a UFO. We think this might have been something more mundane. But you have people who are coming across as not just people who are or whack you or anything. They come across as professionals. And move On's gotten a great reputation I think with the general public, which is the most important thing, and that's what I've seen in the

last few years. Yeah, I think. So. We've been getting some great press from numerous members of the media, from Wall Street Journal to Huffington Post and George Knapp and you guys, and it just goes on and on.

And we've been getting a lot of real positive, positive, good comments about what New Fond's up to. And I get calls continually from people and emails or I did, they're all forwarded to Dave now, but wanting to know what we as the experts think about this, what we think about that, how can we how can you guys investigate, and how do you investigate? And just really some great information that they want, which we're able to

provide mm hm. And you know which is so important that and I know from my years working with the media with move On, what's important to them is that you have local people all over the place who they can talk to near them to get their take on you know, there was a local sighting, right, yeah, exactly, and Diego you know what is a local San Diego? Move On? Think about that, right. A good case of what you're talking about is what's happened in Missouri this past winter and fall.

With all the UFO activity there, Debbie Ziegelmeyer and Mary Oh, I'm sorry, I want to let you struggle with because I can't remember. Yeah, okay, Margaret, and they have just done an outstanding job with the media. And I referred to a lot of the media to them because they're of the boots on the ground knowing what was going on. I didn't know, but you know, I knew what they were reporting, but I didn't know the real intricacies that they did. M h. Yeah. Yeah,

we had debian not too long ago to talk about all of that. And she is now a board member rite an interim at least, right, Yeah, she is, and she is a dynamo. I am very impressed with the lady. She's a real asset to the board. Yep. She's a friend and wonderful person. And we're going to see her at the Congress in a couple of weeks. So that's exciting. Yes, that'll be good.

Her brother Chuck is speaking before I am, and I will probably be able to break read with them at least one night, and I enjoy that. So Chuck Zukowski is excellent with the mutilations, and Debbie will be a great support for him and for mufon mm yep, she said she's a great lady.

So getting into your tenure in your years there lately. And the Huffington posted a story on this, and some other news sources to stories on this about early in the year this year in January how there seemed to be a lot of sightings and some other group had interviewed Peter Davenport of Newfork and he confirmed he was also getting an increase in reports. And then last summer, you know, there was a lot of press around MUFAN and you doing interviews

and talking about an increase in sightings. Do you think we've seen a trend over the last few months or years of increases in sightings? I think so this last year we got a significant amount of activity. August of twenty eleven, we had like one thy and thirteen sightings reported to us, and that was significant because we've averaged five hundred a month. We're now averaging six hundred a month. So it just keeps bumping up. And I wouldn't be surprised

if this year isn't going to be another banner year. And I think one of the things the reason for the great increase is I think there is more activity, but also I think people are more aware because of the media coverage

that the UFO phenomenon has received. I think that's significant, and that gives people now they know a place to report UFO sightings and that's t MUFON, and they know that they will be investigated, and they know that they can remain anonymous if they want to. So now they're coming to us significant numbers.

And with this increase, you've also kind of I remember one of the stories and maybe it was Lee's story from Huffington Post that you personally said you had noted that there also seemed to be an increase in the unknowns, the number of the percentage of those signings that can't be explained or can't investigators can't

figure out what it was. It doesn't seem to be something mundane. Well, I think the number of unknowns goes up with the number of sighting reports we average, But we figure there's ten to twenty percent of the UFO sighting reports to mw FOND would be unidentified flying objects. So if we have five hundred, that would be fifty to one hundred unidentified. So if we have

a thousand, we've got one hundred to two hundred. So I think that this is the way it carries is the reason, the more sightings, the more unidentified, right, which, when it comes to you know, the numbers you're talking about, when you're talking about sixty are six hundred reports, that means like sixty to one hundred unknowns a month. That's a lot, yes, it is. And of that we we've been averaging fourteen reports a month of landings and or takeoffs and averaging four per month of enities seen on

the ground. That's interesting because as you're reporting more of those sort of instances, those haven't seemed to gotten seem to have gotten to the mainstream pressure because you're you are seeing I think an increase in citing reports and taking seriously in some cases by the mainstream media. But you don't hear about the landings or the entities as much. Well as a rule, the ones that report the

entities are usually a little suspect. You don't know if they're talking about they haven't been they haven't had enough time of observation of the entities and or the landing craft to really give us a good picture of exactly what happened. That's what we would like to be able to do, but you know, it might be one or two seconds. The beings jumped back in the craft and took off right away, and it was at about you know, five hundred

feet away. Those kinds of things are the ones that are hard for us to really put our investigative hands around because there's not enough information, enough time to have seen it to really verify that that was extraterrestrial or identified. Right. It's interesting because you know, it hearkens back what I think of is the seventies, because the seventies even have some people referred as the years of the aliens and stuff, because that's when we had a lot of well,

there were a lot of sightings. There were waves of sightings more so back then. It was certainly a sort of increase, but there are also an increase of signing similar to what you're describing landings. And nineteen seventy three was the year of the humanoids. Right there you go, and it was I've been reading some of the cases now that I have the time to go through the archives and research and correlate the activities which I will be speaking about at

your conference too. But the thing that's exciting about it is. There's some really good humanoid cases that have come up, but then there are some really funny ones. I have to share this one with you because we were talking

about humor. This guy reported that he saw this He and some policeman saw this object crash that was a small disc type thing, and they got up to it and this little guy rolled out of the craft and the policeman got him, woke him up and slapped him around a little bit, and the guy jumped The little guy jumped up and knocked him troll him out, and that went on two or three times. At the end of the story, the guy says, well, the being was two foot tall and weighed three

hundred pounds. He would he would have had to been seven foot wide, so two foot tall, three hundred pounds. So those are the funny ones. But there are some that are really significant events that they had, some Alejandro that were We have three cases that I've just reviewed that of the flying beings and how they don't they have looks like jet packs or something like that, but there's no noise or no exhaust, but they're just moving around and

that's a human it's a human being looking type thing that's moving around. Three of those cases, and they were all and I know, the three people that were in different parts of the country, never communicated back and forth. This just happened. So they saw something. I'm not sure exactly what it was, but they believe it was human or a human type being or not a human, a being of some type that was moving through the air.

Very strange. So there was one of them that was looking in the window of the house and the guy went out and they communicated telepathically, and he said, we're not here to hurt you, we're just checking you out and finding out what's going on. And then he was about five six foot tall somewhere in that neighborhood and looked like a human being. And he got back in his craft and took off. Now I don't know what kind of insight this gives you to me, but I was born in nineteen seventy three.

Well, I've been meaning to talk to you about a few the things. They're all hundred and that was that that guy saw. No, that was they were dropping me off. They were like, could you take care of this guy? You do resemble a hybrid. Yeah, these cases you're talking about are they cases from seventy three or are they in the seventy two, seventy three, and seventy four? Uh huh. Are you seeing any similar cases now in some of these these these landing or entities coming on the ground

similarities between the seventies and now. No, I have not seen that similarity at all. And but I haven't been through all of the the cases from We've got cases that reported in nineteen ninety four that happened in nineteen sixty one by people who finally have said, Hey, I've kept this long enough and I've got maybe a year left on this earth, and I'm going to tell

this story, and they tell the story and it's very significant. So we've got cases that are just amazing that have happened, and I'm going to hopefully be able to put all of these into a book form that will allow people to see the MUFON files that we've got from over the years. Yeah, And that's one of the things that's great, and that's what is exciting about what move On's done is that a lot of that data is still available and there. It just takes the work for people to go through it and to

collect it and put it together exactly exactly. I've got about ten thousand cases, plus I don't know how many thousands of journal articles that are archived,

plus proceedings and other things to go through. I just I retained. I shipped everything to Cincinnati for Dave, but I did keep, for an example, some of the Gulf Breeze information and the ment I've got pictures of the Mantel aircraft that are great pictures of the craft of the airplane that crashed, and of these other things that I'm going to try to get all this information into one usable, readable form that it would be available for the public.

And I think we've got to get this information out. It's just it's high time we did right. And then as people some people don't know. It's not a matter of information not being shared. It's it's more a matter of it is in the journal and people don't get some people don't get the journal. But it's also a matter of the work putting There are people that put in the work to get this information and get it out there. I spent you know exactly, I spent four hours today in the archives and I got

from sixty two to sixty five. Wow, that's pretty good. Well, it's each year there gets to be more because when we came into existence in nineteen sixty nine, that's when the real volume starts. But we've got a lot of stuff that's reported to us that was reported to Nightcap and Apro and investigated by some of the big name ufologists of the past Heinik and Roddyger and they're not at the marks, not of the past. But these guys did

a lot of research and are still doing ye. Now, out of some of these older files you've ran across, are there some that it's like or maybe many where you run across these stories and you're like, Wow, this is amazing, It's unfortunate. You know this need to get out there. Yeah, I will tell you one that I'm going to talk about more of depth at your conference. But it happened in nineteen sixty one. The guy reported it to us into MUFON in nineteen ninety four. He's a retired aerospace

engineer and a retired minister. He was a college student at the University of Illinois living in a housing project, and he was one Saturday evening about six o'clock. His buddy lived a couple of doors down and in between them lived a little old German lady. Well, they were going to the library at

the university, so they called and said we'll meet. So he got they both walked out the door simultaneously, and his buddy mouth fell up, and he looked behind him and here was a flying saucer with portals, about one hundred feet above the ground, moving at about five to ten miles an hour, no noise, and it was going between right above and between the buildings this housing complex. When they looked up and saw the object, and he was very detailed. He was very articulate in his report, and he drew

a picture of it, which I'll be presenting. And he said when they both saw it, the little lady was out watering her flowers in front of her apartment there, and she saw it, and they all three saw at the same time. She threw her apron over her face and went running back into her house. Wow. And there was six or eight other people that had seen this. Well, the next day they they saw the little old lady again and they asked her, says, did you see that last night?

So I didn't see anything. I didn't see anything. She was terrified,

But that was a significant event. I mean very significant. I think that when if it could have been investigated at the time as we would today, this would have been as big as Roswell because it was just the what when you have those that many credible witnesses that with their background of being in he was also the student was also a private pilot at that time, so he knew aircraft and he knew how to define what he was looking at and

it was it was pretty amazing. So those kinds of things happened. We don't if one of those happened today, it would be oh, my goodness, wouldn't it be something? Yeah? And it is because they had the same problem back then as we have now, just a lack of resources.

And it makes me think of Rupelt's book, you know who ran Blue Book and he wrote about it and he talked about, you know, for instance, some of these engineers who told them what we had sightings and he said, well, why haven't you reported it to the Air Force And they said, well, you guys aren't going to take it seriously. You don't take

it serious, and he said, yeah, they will. They submit a sighting and sure enough, you know, they get a response that blows them off, and Repelt was kind of embarrassed by this because he was thinking, you know, some of these guys who just reported this were probably professors to the people who blew them off. I mean, these guys knew what they were talking about, but unfortunately a lack of resources even back then. That's

exactly right. And the other thing is from the Robinson panel for nineteen fifty three, they have they put the squelsh on anybody reporting them. They're coops, their nuts, drunks, hallucinations, all that type thing to keep from people from reporting them because they didn't want the White House's telephone lines plugged up like they and the Pentagon and military bases with these UFO sightings. So they said, you've got to be little and make fun of these people that are

reporting them. So people did not want their names associated with any UFO report. And now I read these reports. They want to remain anonymous. They're the old reports. They want to remain anonymous. The ones we get today. Oh yeah, you bet, you bet put my name in there, you bet put it on YouTube. I'm the one they're all wanting to day in the limelight today. But back then they didn't want to talk about it, right, Yeah, I want to ask you about that change that if

you seen a difference over the year. We often call it the giggle factor, you know, where they make fun because the Robertson panel was very effective. I mean that did happen. People were called kooks, and even that happened somewhat today. But it seems to be starting to go away. As you said, people don't all want to be anonymous anymore now, especially in the last couple of years. We've had a lot of celebrities Sammy Hagar, you know, is really in the news that what's Katie Perry and some of

these others talking about this stuff. But it seems like that might be changing. You think it is. I think it is. I think it's becoming more acceptable. The strange thing is, there's an awful lot of things becoming more acceptable that some of them I'm not too fond of. But that's the way it is. Yeah, I think it's a lot more acceptable, and people are pretty interested in seeing that things get reported and not as a raid. I guess too, do you remain anonymous or to report him? Right,

That's the one thing that I've noticing. Used to be probably ninety percent or more back in the fifties, sixties, and seventies and even into the eighties that they were I want to I'll report this, but do not use my name. And of course that's one of the significant factors about New Fons investigations. We will maintain the anonymity of a witness if that's what they desire. But today we're finding back well, back then, nobody didn't seem everybody

seemed like they wanted anonymity. But today, no, that's fine, you can use my name. So there has been a definite change. And do you think that, well, do you think that we may seem when this comes to the main do you think perhaps that the mainstream is taking this more serious or do you think we should have a long way to go there? No, I think I think the media. I think we're finally getting some of the reporters of the media that are looking at this at a more what

the world is going on? There's something going on here. And to give you an example, Alejandro I I was asked to speak at a service club and there were about fifty people, and the program chairman contacted me and asked if i'd talk about UFOs and I said sure, and so I gave my presentation and about it included MWFON and all the information about MWFON and citing reports and that type of thing. After the meeting, I had some people come up and said, you know, I've always I've always poo pooed this,

but says, you're making a lot of sense. And the guy, the program chairman after just as a matter of fact, a week ago, he said to Lisa's cliff he said, he said, I had quite a few people saying, what kind of deal are you giving us about these UFOs h and laughed at it. And afterwards he said, they told me they enjoyed the show. Well, I think people are really not that. I'm good,

that's just the information. It's you too, so well whatever, but they were, they were they were highly impressed with the fact that there is

something going on. Yeah, yeah, and it seems, you know, that's what's wonderful about all of this stuff that even today, you know a lot of people covered Canlson, Arnold and Roswell and lots of that stuff, but there's a lot in this field, a lot of the really credible stuff that people that isn't covered by the documentaries and things and that people still don't know about. So there's certainly a lot of credible and eye opening stuff for

us to share to the general public. You know, when you said, Kenneth Arnold, Alejandra, one of the things that I noticed and I found in the archives were five investigations of UFO events by Kenneth Arnold. Hmm really yeah. I thought, wow, that's interesting. These were his sightings or ones that he investigated, ones he investigated of other people reporting him. Oh

wow. Yeah. You know. We had Paula Harris on recently. She's going to be at the conference, and she did an interview that we're going to have in our magazine with Kenneth Arnold's daughter, and yet she said he was really into the topic and he in fact had several other sightings, but he was so because he was made Buna and it was just that he didn't report him, right. Yeah. So you know when I say that,

I'll look back again through those. But uh, I know he investigated him for others, But you know, I'm just wondering if maybe he didn't use a pseudo name and just reported what he saw. Oh yeah, that's a good point. Other researchers have been suspected of doing that sort of thing.

Uh huh, right, right, so maybe, But it's very interesting when you start seeing these names pop up and the things that they did that were not as out in the press or the public as much as some like Kenneth Arnold's when he coined the tame term falling saucers inside that saw the nine objects. That was a significant event. There are other things that they have done

that are also significant and they don't get reported as much now. And when you're going back through this, are you seeing a lot of credible people? I mean, do you see a lot of like you had an engineer or are you seeing lots of engineers or professor Uh huh, yes, professors. One. I just read one this afternoon, and I'm it's blurred with the

others. But the thing that caught my attention. He was a professor at the university, did not believe in UFOs and thought there were a bunch of malarkey until he had his sighting and he said, I could not explain that. And in any manner, there's no there's no aircraft that can move as fast as this thing did, up and down and back and forth, and was close, very close to him. So this is a professor from a university. He didn't want the verse the name released. I remember that,

so I won't say that. But there's professors, there's policemen. One policeman in Oregon. The police chief had two events. And one of them at first when he tried to brush it away, and the second one he says, I can't ignore this any longer. He said, these are real craft. This is not imaginary. People are not nuts. He says, what I saw that lit up the living room in my house with a blue light and was right above the house. He said, there is no way you

can dismiss that as not being unidentified flying object. Though. Yeah, police chiefs, pilots. I have one report of a F eighty six pilot that was on a Collisian court for the UFO, and I'll be reporting about that one too, at the diference and they flew right into the craft where it was, and it shot straight up and they could see underneath it. It was. It's an amazing story. So there's when you hit the part. Well. And of course we know the astronauts. They've they some of the

astronauts. Gordon Cooper and Story. Musgrave was at the symposium this year. He has not seen anything, but there is no doubt in his mind that there is an intelligent life out there, more advanced, maybe not as advanced, but he says the odds are for a planet like Earth being out there.

He says, there's a trillion of them, just like Earth. So no, I'm just going to say so that just indicates that if in fact, somebody look what we've done in one hundred years with our military aircraft and how we've gone to the Moon another one hundred years, no telling huddle happened. If some culture from another planet is five hundred years ahead of us or a thousand, they could do some things that were we wouldn't understand today.

Yeah. Well, it gets funny because I remember being a kid, and now that I've revealed, you know what year I was born, and watching like you know, Star Trek and thinking, wow, those communicators are so cool. I hope that one day, you know, by the time I passed away, that we will develop something that cool. And here we are. I've got a computer. I didn't even know we'd have computers, personal computers, and I've got a you know this iPhone personal computer where I have

access to all this information right here in my pocket. So I mean our advancement is just I think it's overwhelming for everyone. Yeah, it really is. I remember reading Dick Tracy a little Orphan Annie when I was a kid, and he had a wristwatch he could talk in too, So wow, won't that be cool? Isn't that cool? Well, we got stuff very similar to that or better. Yeah, exactly, it's amazing. When you

talk about story Muskrave, he didn't think, you know. Surprisingly, He said he had heard all the stories of UFOs from astronauts, but he didn't think there was much to it. But he was adamant that certainly there must

be life out there. Do you think Jason and I were talking about this earlier because astrobiology and the possibility of life on other planets is such a hot topic with scientists right now, and we seem to be on the cusp of finding some sort of life the mainstream scientists revealing or having a discovery of some sort of life outside of our own planet. Do you think that's going to

help people take this field more seriously. I think it will. I think when it sinks in that there could possibly there are some people that are still so arrogant that they believe that we are the only life in the universe, that their paradigm will shift so significant when they when the discovery is finally made that I don't know how they'll be able to handle it. But the ones that are on, you know, well maybe so maybe No, I think

that they're finding out. We just I just read an article where they found a planet that's the exact location from the Sun with the Sun very similar to Earth. That's what sixty light years away from us. It's the closest one and the planet is larger than the Earth, but it has everything according to the scientists and astrophysicists that it would support life as we know it. And

that was just in the last few days. Yeah, and these discoveries seem to be happening on a nearly daily at least weekly basis, right right, And I think this is it's people are going to have to start saying, well, wait a minute, well that's still too What they'll say is, well, it's still too far form to get here. Well, their technology will not be a propulsion system as we know it. That's well, we know that they're able to do things that we're not capable of doing. Yeah,

yeah, but we can. We're moving a lot faster these days ourselves. Yep, that's for sure. Way too fast, Yeah, way too fast. Slow down, young fella, that's right. So it is all really exciting. Do you have a I mean, it seems like as far as some of the there was a little bit of a rockiness, and I call it a little bit of rockiness remove on, because the general public I don't think really even knew. There were some people interns only that we're dissatisfied.

Sure they made some noise in the circles amongst moots move on, but I don't think people really knew. And now, you know, because it's move on such a strong base, you know, it's no problem taken and striight and moved on. So I don't see that as really being an issue in the future, but for the future for move on in this field. How do you feel about it? Do you feel pretty positive? I feel very good. I think we're Dave McDonald, the new International Director, will

be doing a great job. And our goals, you know, for research and education and investigation are still primary, our primary goals, and that's what we want to do, and with the volunteer members that are out there that are doing just an outstanding job, it's we're going to continue to grow and we're going to continue to maintain the integrity of a scientific investigation. And I

think that's important. You know, from time to time, as you well know, Alejandro, we people that they absolutely believe they saw a flying saucer or a UFO and we can prove to him exactly what it was, but that is not something they want to hear. Yeah, but that's that's few and far between. But there's still those people that really are believed they saw something and in fact they scientifically we can prove that they saw something other than

the UFO. Yeah. Now, Dave McDonald, he's got a trait similar to you that I really like. You know, I've got to see him at some symposiums and stuff, and like you, he almost always has a smile on his face, which is great. But I was wondering if you can tell us a little more about him because his day job is pretty exciting. Yeah. He has a charter airline which he and his wife run. It's called Flamingo Air. He also has a pilot training school and a dispatcher

training school. Now he doesn't do the hands on day to day things. He has people that do that, as any good manager does. They delegate and allow people to fulfill their destiny as long as it's in conjunction with his destiny. And he just is an amazing person that is able to do the things that are necessary for his business. But the same time he could still be international director and work twenty four to seven for it. So he's a

good businessman. He's been down the road, he's been under the road and on top of the road. He just is a good businessman. And that's that's what's so important about having an international director that's a businessman. I didn't have to know everything about UFOs. I didn't have to know all the intricacies that a star team member goes through to do an investigation. I'm the executive director. I had to make sure that everything was working in the right direction,

everything's flowing from one spot to the other spot correctly. And that's what Dave's able to do. He knows how to direct and to put things in proper perspectives to make sure that the overall umbrella of upon is maintained with integrity and science, which is I think people need to realize too and take a step back when they're thinking about the move On leadership in that you know, this is an organization with a toss and literally unprecedented job of keeping this organization

running. Because organizations come and go, even the big ones NICAP and Koufos and some of these other organizations that we've been very important that we've heard about in the past, ran by people like Heinek and m and these others, they've come and gone. But move On has been around since sixty nine, collecting so much data, doing so much good work, and it's important that it continues. And that's what you guys are are most focused on. That's

exactly right. And you need a line of succession, which is what I tried to build when I was there, because the future there's a lot of gray haired guys on the board of director and it's we need people hair. I've got quite a bit these days. Pardon me, what's wrong with gray hair? I got quite a bit these days. Oh well, yeah, well there's really nothing wrong with it, but it's it is an indition of

a proximity to meeting our maker. So but anyway, it's so anyway, I tried to keep a line of succession going and that's why I brought on three INTERM directors so that they could fill the positions. I would suspect within the next three to five years there'd be a board turnover just because of age and health. So we've got to get people lined up that have the same ideas and goals that the new FON has. Well, that's at which is so important. And it's great that you guys have done such a great job.

And I personally, from my perspective and I have a lot of insight into all of it, You've done a wonderful job. And now we are almost out of time. And I guess my last question would be what is the title of your talking to be at the Congress. It's going to be about what I will Well, I'm not gonna the title of it is undisclosed upon UFO cases oh act exciting. So yeah, so what I will be talking about. One of the things I've found, Alejandro, is that many

people have heard a UPON but they don't know what we do. So my first maybe ten minutes will be explaining MUFON so that they have a better understanding of how I can talk to them about the cases that I'm willing to present to them from our archives. Cool. Well, that's exciting, so we're out of time. Thank you so much for being on the show again. And people will be able to come to the conference and meet you, and I'm sure you're going to have a finger opening joke and some good ones.

Okay, Alejandro, thank you so much. It's been nice not being on here with you and appreciate what you're doing. Keep up the good work. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you later, you bet, bye bye. All right, that was mister clipper Cliff, who's always a lot of fun. And we are out of time, like I told Cliff, so be sure to go to Ufocongress dot com and sign up so you can come out and meet Cliff his talk. He's really piqued my interest. That

sounds like it's gonna be excellent talk. So I'm really excited about it. And also, of course you heard some of the other names. Really these are the names of people who have been asked, you know, have them come to talk it to Congress. And so we said, okay, if you want him, you're gonna get him. So now you got to come see him. You're the one who asks for him, so it's gonna be

a lot of fun. But also be sure to check out Openminds dot tv for some of those stories we talked about, DailyNews, dot net or dot com. And also, you know, like I said, there's that UFO news feed where you can see more UFO stories from out in the mainstream media. And also go check out that Texas video there. So thank you for listening. We will talk to you next week. Audio Smooth Sato's