Hello, and welcome to Open minds UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin Chillin. Willis Chillen because you're a pretty chill dude, I am today. Well, you usually are, right. I've never heard you like get really flustered or upset and like yell and cuss or or just kind of well, no, I shouldn't say that. I've heard a little bit of that I think before. Oh maybe offline, but oh nothing real big. Yeah, behind the scenes, yes,
behind the scenes, Martin is a crazy, tyrant bad man. But we were even listening to one of your shows the other day, and you know, you're just so you're very chill. Yeah, I put myself to sleep my own shows. Yeah. So my guest today is Chuck Szukowski. Of course, we were out at this Devil's Tower event in Wyoming, and Chuck
is a good friend of mine. So people who have been listening to the show for many many years, which some have some have been with us for a long time, they know I used to have Chuck on quite a bit a long time ago, and it's been I think actually a few years since I've had them on. But it's about time that we catch up. But one of the things Chuck's been doing is he's been busy with this book that came out, the thirty seventh Parallel. Like a lot of people have interviewed
Ben Mezrick, and he is the author of the book. However, the book is about Chuck Zukowski and his sister Wie Ziegelmeyer and their work investigating UFOs and the paranormal and how they feel that there's a lot of, you know, strange stuff going on along the thirty seventh Parallel. Now, Ben Mezrick, I could see why people would want to interview him because he's well known. He's a you know, New York Times bestselling author, and he's written
books that have been made into movies, including this one. I don't know if the movie was called Straight Flush. I think it was called something Else, but it was about this college kid who figured out how to you know, do kind of like a method of winning at poker and won a bunch of money. The social network and that was a movie, you know, about Facebook and the founding of Facebook. So he's those are the books he's written, and now this thirty seventh Parallel, and we'll go over this with
Chuck is in the works to being made into a movie. Also, really, so is this movie? Did you say it was actually about Chuck and his sister? Yeah? Wow, I know. And like there's some really big names involved in fact. In the interview that we're going to listen to in a minute, he kind of dropped some bombs, some names of some
of the people involved, and I don't think he shared that before. And there are some big, big names, but I don't want to tell you now because some people may be going, oh, I just got the best part. They just like read the last page of the book to me.
So I'm just gonna quit listening because I've heard the best mm hmm. So anyway, I haven't had Ben Mezick on because I was one of the first people to have Chuck on talking about the thirty seventh Parallel when he came up with the idea was it was partially off of some Open Minds trending that I had done, and because we work together on different stuff, and so it was like, well, why do I want to interview this guy who's written
the book when I've talked to when I could go to the source. So I haven't had Ben Mezick on, but I think Chuck's kind of convinced me maybe I should look to do that. And they had asked me if I wanted to have a mom you probably I wouldn't doubt if you got a note from them too, have you that you can think of? No, I don't remember. It's possible though, Yeah, you probably. You probably did in your email somewhere. So yes, that's who's on the show. Have
you had Chuck Sukowski on? I have not. Oh he's a neat guy. Have you met him? I have not. No. Okay, so one maybe we'll be together and I'll be able to introduce you to him. And what about Debbie Ziegelmeyer. She's on the board of mouf on and she's the state director in Missouri. No, but I'll have to tag you. Yeah, she did a great job. She did a talk out there in
Wyoming. They're always together in a pair, and a lot of times they'll present together, but this was nice because they presented separately, and Debbie did a great job. Some really interesting cases from Missouri that she talked about. So it was a very fun time, cool event. And I've got some pictures and stuff up on my Facebook, so people can go look at that. But I guess let's go ahead and get into the news. Okay.
Just before that, I just want to tell you that I did find an email that I sent to someone about that book, the thirty seventh Parallel, but I did not get a reply. I was trying to do Actually the prices right, weren't were It's kind of a harder one to do. That's a who I don't know. I can't do it all right, So the news and so this was written by a one Alejandro Rojas. Hey, that's
me that you on September twentieth. So this has to do with the disappearance of the UK's most spectacular UFO photo, so hanging on the wall near the British government's UFO desk. Was one of the men who occupied that desk, called the most spectacular UFO photo ever sent to the Ministry of Defense, the MOD the photo disappeared however since then, and well it was Nick Pope, of course, and he ran the mods UFO project from nineteen ninety one to
nineteen ninety four. And when he was first assigned to the position, he wasn't excited about it and he felt the issue was ridiculous and he was not looking forward to have to deal with a bunch of UFA and all that stuff. Well, over the years, Pope found some very credible cases of incredible things, and he began to see there was something really mysterious about the phenomena.
And one of the cases that led him to the collusion that had to do with a photo that was made into a poster or it was like a poster size that he found hung near his desk when he began the work. And so anyway, the photo showed a picture of a large diamond shaped craft
with a jet in the background. And when he asked about the photo, he was told that they officially determined the image was real, and they estimated the craft to be about twenty five meters, which is just over eighty feet in diameter, and if asked, they were instructed to answer no definite conclusion that had been reach regarding the large diamond shaped object. So, anyway, this photograph just disappeared and no one knew what happened to it. Is that
right? I mean, I'm not going to read through this whole Yeah, you're exactly right. That's what's fun about this story. Now, I've heard Nick tell this story over the years several times and I've always been very intrigued by it, so it's about time I wrote something about it. But also Channel five did a recreation of this poster of this image, and I don't know when they did it, but I've only seen it maybe in the last
couple of years, and it's a really cool re rendition. I mean, and Nick worked with them to try to get it accurate, and it's an amazing picture of you know, this metallic diamond shaped thing. Of course, this is cgi, but it's as close to the original as possible, and Nick says it's pretty close to what was hanging in the office. So the story's cool. But then coupled with now that we have this recreation makes it even more exciting. So it's one of those stories where sometimes you think,
you know what, this is a really good story. I kind of take it for granted because I've heard it so much, but I should write something about it so people have kind of a record of it, and so I did. Nick's got a more in depth write up of this whole event that you can go see, including some information about the UK mod Ufo files. Regarding the case that this took place. And as for that case, it was nineteen I believe ninety when this couple in Calvin essentially saw this, took
some photographs. They remained anonymous, but they sent them to the Scottish Daily newspaper. The Scottish Daily then asked the mood about it, and the MD said, h let us take a look. Would you mind if we took the pictures and the negatives, And somehow the paper led them so they kept the negatives. But yeah, this poster was on the wall. When Nick showed up his first day, he found the case to be incredible. People said it was real. And then his boss took it down eventually, And
this is interesting. So his boss essentially became convinced that it was some sort
of high tech thing that was probably American. And even though really yeah, and even though the Americans and the departments they contacted denied saying, you know, we don't know what it is, his boss just became convinced that this was kind of an American and British secret, and so he thought, you know, if this is a secret, being patriots, we should take this poster down and help, you know, keep the secret and so he took
it down and Nick never saw it again. He thinks it was probably shredded, but that speculation on Nick's part as far as you know, the motivations of his boss. But I guess his boss was convinced it with some sort of top secret aircraft. But what's incredible? Why would an American top secret project be tested in Scotland? Isn't that isn't that kind of bizarre? It
is very bizarre, maybe for secrecy or something. Not only that, it's you know, an eighty diameter you know, metallic thing hovering in the sky and taking off at high speed and that's quite a technology for you know what thirty years ago. So yeah, it took off vertically straight. Yeah, so yeah, this is such a this is a big mystery. This is I think one of the great stories uk UFO stories out there. So yeah, finally wrote something up on that. Really cool. Yeah it got anything
else? Uh? No, it does look like it has a little to it though I don't know what that part is trying to portray. And you know, Nick does not address that in his rite up of this story, but I would like to ask him that question, because yeah, it does have some kind of weird little tail or poof for I don't know what that is on the right end of it. And interesting to note too that they're not sure what the aircraft was. They think it might have been a harrier.
There were people jets flying around at that time, you know, military stuff, but they were not able to contact any pilot who they could be sure was the person flying the plane. And they're not sure if the pilot even noticed the UFO and so you know, that's still kind of a mystery. Yeah, Well, like my guess that you've had on your show, Richard Theme and a number of other people have said that I'm sure you've talked
to that. We only see about, you know, twenty years. I mean, there's twenty years of military secret, military craft that we don't even know anything about yet. Yeah, that's what they usually say. You know. There was a story Area fifty one a plane crashed recently and it was very hush hush. They announced a couple of days after the incident that the pilot had died in the crash, and that's how people found out about it, but they would not say what sort of aircraft it was. They said
what it wasn't and because people ask is it this? Is it that? Which are all the known craft we know about, and they were like, nope, but it's none of those. So that some sort of top secret craft who knows what the heck this thing was that crashed out there recently and unfortunately the pilot to not survive. Oh wow yeah yeah yeah. So another story I wrote, It's okay to move on. Yeah, it's just an awkward moment again. Yeah, yeah, okay, it's Martin. I'm gonna
blame you. No, it's it's both because it's it's but it's fun to be awkward, like it's hip hip to be square type of thing, right, So yeah, Spilberg. So Wyoming, Actually a few stories came out of Wyoming. One of those that I wrote and I put it on Huffington
Post this weekend, is regarding Spilberg. So you know, we had lis Biegelan recently and we've had him on in the past, but essentially that story he told us just a couple of weeks ago, and I think he's told me before where he met Spilberg. But I wrote that up and I got
a YouTube interview of him talking about it, and I embedded that. But I also found, at least in the Huffington Post version, and I'm gonna add this to the Open Minds version, a really cool couple of minutes of Spielberg and the other actors of the movie talking about Heinek M and the UFOs. Yeah, it's a really cool clip. So people have to check that out. I will get that in the Open mind story, but they can go to Huffington Post and also see it. And of course I've got those
links out there. But the other stories that came out, the Son of All Places wrote some stories, one of them about Travis Walton. Of course we're all pretty familiar with his stories, but the cool one was Mark D'Antonio. And I don't know if i've I've heard him tell this story a lot, because I've spent a lot of time with him, but I can't remember if he's told this story on one of my podcasts. I believe he has, but I've had him on quite a bit. You've had him on right,
Yeah, he did. He told the story on Marshall the Navy sub story, right, yeah, fast mover, Yeah exactly. So he had never really told mainstream media about it. If you consider the Sun mainstream media, which I guess pretty much they are in the UK, even though they're tabloid. And of course if you go there you'll see some nudity, especially girls in their bikinis who's tops fall off, or celebrities, you know, skinny dipping or whatever. That's one of their favorite things to write about.
But they also like to write about UFOs. And so they wrote up a story on Mark's claims and he was fine with it about you know, Mark saying he was on this sub and sitting next to the sonar guy when the sonar guy caught this fast moving object under the water and told his boss about it, and then they he called it a fast mover. And then Mark asked the CEO, I guess of the ship, Hey, you know, I want to talk more about that that fast mover or that thing that they
caught. And I guess the guy told him, he said, are you having a good time, you know, on the ship on the sub And he's like, yeah, great time. He's like, well, let's keep it this way, which is his key to kind of shut up about the whole thing. But the reason Mark was on the sub in the first place, I mean, civilians, I don't I think rarely get to go on subs, but he was except for contractors, which is what he is, and he makes like models for the Navy and stuff, and so he had
a top secret clearance at the time. So he says later on he asked some you know, other officer with the military to tell him about the fast mover program and this guy told him something like, you know, I can't tell you about that or something like that. So, yeah, that's it's pretty interesting story. Yeah, and other other places are picking it up, like, yeah, it's in the International Business Times and it's so what's it's
going around? Which is kind of cool because especially the International Business Times was kind of a smaller new service, Uh, but it's getting more and more popular, and especially lately it's it's had some uh some exclusive news regarding politics and stuff that's putting kind of more in the limelight and being taken more seriously. So it's a it's a good time to have, you know, mark one's exposure for this whole story to get that and in that paper. So
yeah, it's kind of cool they wrote that up. So, uh, what was your time like out at h at the event? It was great. It was a lot of fun. It got to meet the state director for Moufun in Wyoming, got Richard Beckwith he lives in I think it's called Rock Point or Rock Spring. I think it's called the town he lives in in Wyoming, and he's the city attorney out there. So he also recently got put on the move On's board business boards, so kind of that board
that oversees the whole organization. So yeah, really nice guy. He was really interesting. And then there was Chuck and Debbie, Mark d Antonio, Travis Walton, I think that was all of us that were speakers. We all did like two talks each. But it was fun. It was is it kind of a hard place to get to. You had to fly into this town called Gillette and then drive an hour or so to Hewlett near the
tower. And the tower is amazing. It's I bet it's much what about other rock structures around or is just like no in the middle by itself. I mean, there are crops kind of here and there, but it's kind of it's really pretty out there. I mean it's rolling hills, there are kind of gullies and stuff like that, you know where the waters kind of cut these really cool formations, so it is really pretty out there. And then you know, we were in the pines and stuff, so and we're
not far from the Black Hills there, so really really pretty. But yeah, this thing just kind of juts out of the ground and there's nothing like it, I mean, totally different. And when I posted my pictures on Facebook, I did put a link to how it was formed so people can go see that. And it's kind of like I think they call it a volcano cap or something like that. I forget the terminology, but you can go see the geology on how it was made and having petrified wood is not
a part of that at all, which some people speculate. And it was kind of a running joe out there because there's this new thing that it's a petrified gigantic tree. But yeah, yeah, someone saw it perfectly. I can see how it kind of looks like that. But but it is solid rock and it's really cool. I mean it is. It is odd and different. It's really unique, so it's kind of fun. We got to Karen and I do a walk around it with Travis Walton and he was in
a suit and loafers. I was in my flip flops. And there's lots of tourists and stuff that, but it wasn't that big of a walk long of a walk, and it was pretty cool. Was the event well attended. It was for what they wanted. So for instance, the room we're in that we talked and could only hold forty people and it was packed, so so in that sense it was good. I don't know if they're going to do it again, but they'll definitely need some more space if they do.
But Bob Olson, who is kind of the host, he owns the best Western at this place the talks were held in, and he also there's a golf course above it, and he builds the log cabins and stuff and log homes there. So there were some nice rooms we got to stay in and we had a view of the tower, which was really cool. But he is a great guy, great host. And then they actually created an organization for the Devil's Tower UFO Rendezvous and that was ran by a woman called
Laurie Tucker, and she was also very very nice. She's really into UFOs and stuff and kind of was the person who kind of got this whole thing rolling and suggested it to Bob and others to bring some people into town and it worked. Wow. And are they planning on doing this for once a year or something. I don't know. I don't know. They may or
may not. They I think they've got to figure that out. They got to look at, you know, their expenses versus the what they made, and that can take some time to figure out, especially when it comes to like a city event, because then they have to factor in, you know, did the town make money, not just so taxes, but did it bring business and did the businesses make money? And was it worth you know,
everything they spend type of thing. The writer for the son who was out there is really cool and she's writing some great stories and so this stuff about Travis and Mark and then is getting out there and then you know, the Spilbrig stuff. And I really loved using kind of this Spilbrig thing and the momentum around Close Encounters to kind of also get the word out there about the United Nations and this thing that happened in the seventies, which is pretty
important. I think. Now this is probably sounds layman, but I just don't know. Did they actually film the ending of Close Encounters right there? Yeah? They did. They did film a lot of it there, so there was an actual camp and yeah, they did film a lot of it, so you know, it's back and forth. There was a lot of CG and some other stuff. But yeah, well cool, cool stuff. But we better wrap it up. Thank you again for joining us for the
news, mister Martin, Chill and Willis. As always, it's my pleasure. Before we talk to our guests, we are going to do a short break. If you're listening to KGr you're going to hear some commercials here. Be sure to patronize these people because they keep KGr A on the air and all this great radio, so do it Otherwise, if you're listening to the podcast, we'll have a short musical break and then we'll be back with our guests. Chuck Zukowski, hanging tight. We are back, and I want
to remind you you're listening to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am happy to welcome back to the show the UFO nut, not just a UFO nut, Chuck Zukowski. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll have to explain the UFO nuts stuff because there are a lot of ufhone there are. But yeah, well, thank you very much. I can't wait for our little conversation. It's always exciting to talk with you all, angel I mean, I really can't I remember the last time I actually got a chance to talk to you.
It was way back about last Saturday, wasn't it. Yeah, that was. And just like the old days for hours so and for long time listeners, you were on the show years ago. You were one of my first guests, and on probably two or three times a while ago, and you were on in fact, and you can tell me if this is true
or not. I was one of the first, if not the first podcasters to have you and your sister to come on to talk about the thirty seventh Parallel for which now there's a book and a movie in the works and all this cool stuff. Yeah, yeah, I think you were. I mean it's it's pretty cool. You know, you're always right there at the cutting edge of technology. So I can't wait for you know, the next couple of years what you're going to you know, spring on people, you know,
some type of a holographic reality type of a podcast. So yeah, yeah, I can't wait. Holographic reality cast. Yeah, well coming, you bet, let's start working on it. Yep, before you know it, I'm going to be tapping on your shoulder and saying hey, Chuck, and you'll turn around and you'll be like what, And I'll be like, Hey, it's not really me. This is a hologram. Whoa my Pajamason or something. Yeah, I mean it would be really embarrassing. That'll be
pretty cool. So yeah, so I think people will have to go way back if they want to hear a lot about the UFO net and thirty seventh parallel, but we'll we'll touch on a lot of that stuff. But we were both recently in at Devil's Tower together and but I guess let's get into this thirty seventh parallel because that's kind of some exciting stuff going on right now. So you they wrote a book about you, like, let us know about how you approached, what kind of how they pitched the book and who
wrote it. Yeah, you know, that's it's really interesting. What happened was was I did? I did the first season just a small fifteen minute segment on cattle mulations for The Science Channel's Unexplained File season one, and towards the end of my segment, I sprung on this thirty seventh degree latitude theory where you know, you have these events that happened across the US, animal mutilations and UFO sightings and and actually you know Open Minds you know, played
a part of that too. Something that you did, you know, with the most popular states had or the most states having or the states had the most sightings. That's what it was. And so when it came around to season two, they called me and said, hey, what's this thirty seventh degree latitude thing? You know? Do you have any data to back it up? And I go, huh do I? So I just kind of like just jumped them just tons of data on it, GPS coordinates, a
whole bit. They were wing WHOA. They got back to me and said, hey, would you actually mind doing a full hour show? And I'm going, what that's awesome, you know, rather than a five minute segment that we normally usually get. So we sat down with them and talked about the places we wanted to go or what I wanted to go and what they could do, and about a week and a half of shooting, you know,
we had this you know, one hour show. Actually it was usually with the unexplained files, they the one episode one hour is usually cut into two segments covering two separate topics, and so this was like one of their first times where they had the whole hour show was one topic. They're a little larry at first, but you know, once they realized how much was involved and where would we be going, you know, ending up in the area fifty one and some other nifty things, they were really excited about it.
So, you know, we did that and it aired, and I think for a while there it was number one. Matter of fact, it just aired not too long ago when they even when they reruns, and this was you know, we did this a couple of years back. Uh, that's one of the one of the few or one of the selected episodes that they always seem to want to do a rerun on. And I always know when it's a rerun because I get tons of emails, Well, I guess
this. This movie executive from both Flint from Flint Pictures Productions caught it on TV, and Uh, he's always wanted to do It's kind of funny. I'd say this Close Encounters of the Third kind type of movie as a kid, and then once he got involved in in movie productions, you know, he thought, hey, this might be reachable obviously not to the grandeur of what the Steven Spielberg wan was. But so he caught the you know, he caught the episode. He went to the website and he goes, hey,
you know, there's something here. So then you know, they contacted me. And I was contracting uh at qualcomm over in San Diego because I still work right and and I said, well, what, yeah, you know, we're we're kicking around the idea of maybe doing a movie or something
all this, you know on your theory. The thirty seventh degree parallel because it was thirty seventh degree latitude, was actually what I did at press release a few years ago on but when Science Channel did it, it was called the thirty seventh Parallel Paranormal Highway of America, and they really liked that, and so they said, well, what we'd like to do is we're going to commission a New York Times best selling author Ben Mezrick, who's already read
a couple of books that went to movies won I think was called The Accidental Billionaire or about Facebook, and so that was his book. And then there was another one, I think it was called Breaking the Bank or something about the MIT students. That went to Vegas. Yeah, I want to see that movie. So he, you know, he's already done a couple of
you know, read a couple of books ago with the movies. So basically they contacted him and said, Hey, what we need you to do is we need you to write a pitch, you know, for a movie slash book, and we'll you know, we'll try well, we'll you know, market or sell this pitch and see if another production company wants to pick it up and see if that's something people are interested in. So Ben Masick wrote this, you know, I'm kind of looking at it right now, you
know, like a thirty two page transcript on three acts. You know. The first act you know, introduces me with you know, some type of siding. The second act is kind of like you know, what happens in between, right, and the third act kind of as a summary of what happened. But anyway, so he writes this, and here it's really interesting, all handel because I'm working at Qualcomm and I'm doing this while I'm working, and I'm I'm in my office. It's a shared office, so I
have to wait and and call Ben Masick. I'm in California actually, I live in Colorado. At the time, I was in California contracting Ben Masick's in Boston. So at lunchtime to go out to my truck in the parking lot and there was a parking structure and I parked on top of the parking structure and I was talking to him, and we're right near Mira Mars, so you know, the jets are going over, the helicopters and stuff.
So it was kind of interesting. And and for the time I was there, I was working with Ben Mezrick, giving them information at my laptop on my lap literally in my pickup truck, and we're going back and forth. And this went back and forth for about maybe you know, a month or so, and I had enough information to pitch this little story idea. Well. So both Flynn got it, Yeah from the pictures got it, and
they go, yeah, this is pretty good. Okay, we're going to pitch it out there and see if another production company wants to pick it up. And you know, you, you know, you're really familiar with you know, the movie business and TV business. If you if anybody out there, you know, when you when you watch a movie at the movies at the very end you'll see Sony or Fox or you know, Warner Brothers whatever,
But then you'll see other production companies too. So what they're doing now is, you know, rather than one production company flipping the bill for everything, they bring in other production companies to help offset the expenses, and then other and then other production companies may have specialties and you know, in one area where another one would have, you know, a specialty in another area.
So you can kind of see this collaboration if you stay and watch the credits that you know, after you know, you go to the movies. So basically, say you went to go pitch this, and even before they had a chance to pitch it out there to the industry New Line Cinema, Warner Brothers, which is their parent companies, says, you're not pitching that we want this. And then they called me back and said, hey, uh, Warner Brothers wants this New Line Cinema. Warner Brothers wants us.
I'm going what and and so they go, Okay, Now the next step is Ben Mezick has got to write a book, so we could write a script from the book. And I'm going, well, isn't that the cart before the horse? I thought you always did a movie after a book was out, just based on well, this is an idea that bo Flynn wanted, something he wanted to pursue, and so he you know, he found what he was looking for. So he needed a writer, a very high level writer, you know, to write a book so then they can write
the script from the book. And basically what it is is Ben does all the all the work of putting everything together in the book and you know, all the reference material, everything's there, and then it's it's easier for a screenwriter to take that and go from there. So I went, okay, So still in San Diego and for the next few months, you know, back in my truck at lunch time and you know, talking to Bandon, and we put all this information together for a book. And the book came
out. It's called A thirty seventh Parallel. It came out last September sixth in hardback form. They I don't make any money from the book, just to let you know, uh name nothing. I'd make nothing from the book because I signed a life rights contract with New Line Cinema actually both Flint Pictures, and then and then I had to sign another one with Newline Cinema Warner
Brothers. So I don't I don't make anything from the book, but I looked at it this way, that that there's a little bit of a legacy there in the book because it's it's about me, my family and even my my my mom and dad are mentioned in it, so you know, all our real names. So it's a little bit of a legacy there. I
thought, you know what, that's kind of cool. Uh this guy, Ben mezick is net worth is around thirty five million dollars, so you know he's yeah, he's just you know, he's not just one of those uh, you know, fly by Night type of writers, you know, writing the trinting off. Well, they should have shared some of that with you, though. I mean, but I guess you'll your thing is you'll make
money with the movie. How well, well, the thing is is, you know, I've always loved j Al and the Heinech in this scene the very end of Close Encounters, and when I when I when I, it's, oh God, I gotta tell you. So this contract they send me, this contract for my life rights, and I'm going over it and said, okay, I gotta I gotta talk to a lawyer. I'm right here in California. It's the best place right for you know, entertainment lawyers. And so the deal is, if if somebody picks it up anybody, I
get a two thousand dollar bonus. If someone big picks it up, I get a five thousand dollar bonus. I'm going okay, you know. So, so I start contacting attorneys in California and they started off at thirty five hundred dollars and one up. Just so I'm going, oh my god, if I got the two thousand dollars bonus, if someone picked it up, I'm out a thousand dollars. Yeah, if I got the five thousand, and I'm only making like fifteen hundred dollars. So you know me, Ala
Hanchel, you know, yeah, I love to do research. I like to get in there. And you know, for for about two three weeks, I was I was on the internet. I was looking searching all these places, looking at movie contracts or life flight contracts, seeing exactly and basically I turned the contract three separate times just on my own. I mean I didn't have the money to do it after that, you know, to pay somebody. And so I made sure that that I was a technical advisor.
I made sure that I could still do Unfortunately, they wouldn't let me have my own TV show, but I still in my in the contract, I'm able to do spots, you know, do do episodes on other shows and stuff, you know, something like that, and still do the stuff that I love to do with my website and everybody else and conferences and and all that. So I made sure that was very clear, and they agreed. I'm going okay, and it's a you know, it's a two year actually
a three year contract. So I went ahead, and you know, we went through and sided. I had to go to the Chase Bank and get a noted, right, So I mean, I'm doing all this myself. And off we go. So, like I said, I'm not making anything from the book. But so what Ben Mesick did is he flew me and my wife out to Boston, uh for the for the book release party.
It was that was really cool and put us up at a really nice hotel out there, and and we were out in Boston for about four or five days and and got to see Boston and Salem and oh, you know, I love going to Salem, you know, so that was so cool yeah, I've always heard Boston it's pretty cool. Oh, it is pretty cool. You know's so much history there as opposed to more history there than opposed to Colorado or you know, or Arizona, because I mean everything was right
there, the Boston tea party and just anyway. So so that's how that kind of went. And and so the book came out, and the book it was really really interesting because it's a non fiction book and everything in the book, if anybody picks it up out there, oh of July this year or it went paperback, so you can find you know, the thirty seventh Parallel for you know, a third the price that it was before, probably
far cheaper now. Yeah. So it's funny because they had contacted me and a couple of times to ask me if I wanted to interview Ben, and I thought, well, I don't know what I would ask him, because I've already interviewed you and your sister. Debbie's Eigelmeyer, who's your your your paranormal research partner, so to speak. And so it's like, I just don't know what i'd ask him because I've already asked the source. You know.
Yeah, well, you know it's it's pretty cool. I mean, you still may want to talk to him, because the neat thing is is he was brought up in a skeptic family, and so he was a skeptic. And not that you know, I'm tooting my own horn. You know,
if it was, it would be an aluga horn. But it's you know, it's just that Towards after after he wrote the book and and and he actually talked to a couple of of my annimal mutilation ranchers, you know, he interviewed them and and you know, to get some information from the source. And then he he interviewed a representative from Bigelow Aerospace because Bigelow is a part of this book too. That yeah, due to the the roswell piece of metal that big ol Aerospace uh uh, you know analyzed, well
started to analyze for me. And you're getting choppy as you speak about it because you you you're not you were not happy with, to put it lately, the work they did. Oh yeah, exactly exactly. We're go in that later. But basically he became a believer. It's really really interesting, you know, he goes, oh my god, yeah, and and really really cool. So so the books out there, and we got some really really good reviews on it from actual you know, professional reviewers liked it.
Now Amazon are about three stars because most people don't like the ending. Now, most people that pick up a book, a non fiction book which is based on real life scenarios, they expect to see some type of ending. But there's no ending to this book. Because I'm still alive. Let me pinch myself. Yeah, I'm still alive. I'm still doing investigations. We still haven't found you know, you know, solid proof that you know, aliens exist. We've got all kinds of circumstantial evidence, but you know,
but nothing to go here. You go done. And that's what people were looking for. Other people. Other people just just loved it. But you know, some of the people they were expecting to see an ending. And and when you get to the ending book, it's it's really creative. What he did is the first time he's ever done anything like this for an ending. But it's almost like when you pick up a piece of paper that Stanton Freeman got from the archives, you know, where there's information there, but
there's not information there. You kind of read between the lines. He kind of did something like that, and the reviewers. The professional reviewers just loved it because it was something that they weren't expecting. But normal people that read it, the ones that are into afology, they get it. The ones that picked it up because of our ben measured fran we're kind of iffy. So that's why we kind of got like the three stars. So Amazon. But so now the book's out there, New York Times picks it up and
they don't know what to do with it. You know, there was they there was a review done by by one of the science editors because they don't know. And it's really it's really sad. And this is why I really like, you know, what you're doing. All I had with the podcast and the UFO Congress and getting the information out to the public, and you know, because we need more people to wear. So now you have the New York Times going, well, what do I do with this? This
is this is a very very well known writer. His publisher Simon and Schuster, you know, so what do we do with this? So they go, well, you know, it's non fiction, let's give it. They don't have a UFO paranormal department, so give it to the Science Center. And a science guy reads it. He goes, well, you know,
we're all great, we know we're going to go with that. Philip, Philip class just picked it up and he's reading it, and and so it bounced in the science section of the New York Times best Selling for like two months, so we got you know, so it's in essence, I'll say it. It's a New York Times best selling book for two months. But you know that's that's better. So it's better than nothing. They didn't know where to put it. So while that's going on, now we have New
Line Cinema, Warner Brothers, and Flint Pick Productions. We have three production companies that are looking for a screenplay writer to write the movie now that there's a book, right, And and I interviewed. Why I didn't interview, but I got to talk with two of the three. I didn't get to talk to the third or the second one. Actually the first one, the second one did to get a chance to talk to in the third one, I did. And it took him. They were so particular about this.
It took him six months to to get the writer, the writer that they wanted to write the screenplay. And I can't tell you his name, And I don't know why. Maybe they're waiting for the first draft should be done within a couple of weeks. Actually, from what I told, the beginning of October sometime is the first draft, and then he's contracted for a second draft because everybody makes changes. And now you've got three movie studios that are gonna make changes. Right, So but okay, go ahead, No,
no, you're just gonna give us something juicy. So I can tell you this. The person who's writing this screamplay has written for Robert de Niro, Matt Damon, and Robert Downey Jr. Okay, so you know it's not like he wrote for Carrot Top or anything like that. I mean, he's wrote for some big name people. So you know, he's not a slouch out there, and he's a He was a really cool guy. He started writing just after Memorial Day. Matter of fact, he wanted to meet me
and and and see my house and meet my wife Tammy. So he lives obviously in California. Over this, you know, you you're kind of a jokester. So maybe Carrot Top would have been best. Yeah. I like Carrot Top, you know, well, I don't know, he's had a lot of plastic surgery late now he is he looks like Shatner. Now, well you know every time you get those talks, you all look like Shatner.
But that's really cool that that's really interesting. And so they'll probably add some drama, like they're gonna have to figure out how to add some drama. Of course in this arena when you're looking into the paranormal, they always add some fear. So are you afraid of all of what they'll come up with? I mean, we just spent time with Travis Walton and of course we know what they did with his movie. Well, the nice thing about the person that's writing it now, uh, we we talked back and forth.
He kind of gave me his idea what he wants to do, but it's still kind of hush hush, and then you know and really don't tell us. But the main thing is is now obviously it's not gonna be like the book. You know they're gonna But then the neat thing is is all the real all our names are gonna be used. So my name, my wife's name, so they're not gonna be any pseudo names. Hopefully that's good.
Yeah, I mean that could be okay. And and there's gonna and some of the events in my life will be featured in the movie, but obviously will be amplified times one hundred, right, because you know this is a movie. So I'm I'm guessing, you know, I just I was joking with him. I said, just do me a favor, you know, somehow another get my characters like chase down aliens and we get a big
five. You know, you know they're an alien in the headlog. Yeah, really, I'm giving him a noogie on the top of his head or something. Yeah, that'd be great, you know, or something like that. But but no, they're really serious about this. And uh so he's pretty happy. I talked to him. Uh every now and then, I'll email me every a couple of weeks. I go, how's it going. Is everything okay? Do you have any questions? Well, let's add pods
for a second. I'm gonna have to go to a break. Remind people you're listening to kg r A. Uh, if you're not listening to the podcast. For podcasters, you're gonna hear a little bit of music. And for kg r A, we're gonna go to commercial back break. We'll be right back with Chuck Sukowski. All right, we are back. You're listening to Open minds UFO Radio. I am Alejandro Rojas and the guy on the other side of the line is Chuck e Z. That's what I like to
call you sometimes, you know, that's what my sisters call me. Well, and I want to touch on this because you know, you talk about all the movies a lot about your family and they use the real names and everything, and your family is so into I wanted you to talk about a little bit about you and Debbie in the second I'll tell you what in particular, but how your family's really into this, because you know we haven't I haven't had you on for I don't know, it's probably been years since we've
done a podcast together. But since then, you and your sister used to work together. But now two of your other sisters are working in this field. One of them is working I think on on staff for move On, Linda, and then that's your and then another one is it Diane helps out. They were both at the symposium, you know, right next to our table, the move On symposium, helping out. So yeah, you've got this whole family affair thing going on. Oh you know, it's even deeper
than that, if anybody reads the book. And we talked about this with the family. My mom, when she was a little girl, had a siding. She lived in the little town of Morenci in Arizona, and you know, they didn't have a lot of rooms in the house, you know, bedrooms, because they you know, my mom's family had three boys and three girls, and my mom ended up having three boys and three girls.
That it's kind of interesting how that planned out. But so my mom's sleeping on a cot in a hallway near my you know, her mom and dad's bedroom, and a couple times at night, you know, and this is exactly what she says, you know that you know, she saw these little people coming in. So the history of ufology started with my mom and their family. And then I interviewed my aunt a few years ago and her sister obviously, and she had a siding. They were driving from from San Pedro,
California, to Arizona to a little town called Safford. And you know, back in the day, there wasn't any rest areas. There wasn't Interstate ten, so I think they had to take forty and what they used to do, and I remember doing it as a kid too, because you know, my dad would drive. You get tired, you pull off the side
of the road, but you'd pull off the road into the desert. You drive into the desert a little bit and black out, you know, turn all your lights off and stuff, so you know, you don't have to worry about any you know, any no bat guys or anything like that. So you kind of sneak off the side that way. And the families used to sleep like that. I remember doing it myself, so throughout the desert.
They're in the California desert close to the Arizona border, and my aunt, you know, she's in the passenger seeing her husband, my uncle Roy's and the driver, and then the three kids are in the back and my three cousins and she looks up. Everybody's asleep in the car. And she looks up and there's an alien staring in the window right now. And when
did you learn this story? Recently? We actually started we learned something about it when the whole family got together back in two thousand and two and my dad passed away. Wow, and we had everybody there and because everybody knew at that point that Debbie and I were doing investigations, and so my aunt Flora comes up to me and says, hey, Chuck, Hey Chuck, you gotta gotta or my cousin floora excuse me, you have to go talk to you know, Anti Petrum. She's got something to tell you. Oh
my god, are you kidding me? So now I have two women you know that had you know, events, my mom and then her sister. So this started with them, and what happened when she's alien. It's so cute when she was telling me this because she said she put her hands over her face and she said, I covered my face, and I covered my face, and then I looked again and they were still there. And I covered my face and she looked up and there walking away. Now I can't
tell you. I mean I talked to her about you know, missing time or anything like that, but at that point she wouldn't have known if there was missing time, because she just remembers. She did say that. Right afterwards, she fell asleep, which I thought was really interesting. She didn't stay up. I mean I would have stayed up the whole night, just freaked out. I would remember, had to have changed my sleeping attire. Yeah, so she does remember waking up in the car with everybody else,
so at one point she did go to sleep. I can't tell you if there was any missing time, and she can't tell me that either, but you know that was an experience. So that out of six kids in my family, Debbie and I, you know, I started doing this first, and then Debbie caught on a few years later and started I've been doing like I think she's been doing about twenty years, and I've been doing it just
over thirty thirty two years now. And wasn't the case, if I remember correctly, like you got a hold of Debbie and you didn't even know she was doing the investigations, and then all of a sudden she's part of mofon exactly. I didn't know all that. You know, she's living in Missouri. I just moved out of California. I was in Colorado, and I was working on Roswell's stuff. You know, that was my main focus in
California. And so I think I contacted her and it was asking her about, oh, I have Joplin spooklightes or something goofy like that, And as it turned out, not only did she know about it, she knew a lot about it. I'm like, what again. You know, it's funny that you know your own sibling and now it's different. People go, well, that's kind of crazy because I'm like, oh, yeah, but we
didn't have Facebook, we didn't have Twitter, we didn't have email. You know, we really all that was was was was coming up in the nineties and and it wasn't you know, it wasn't as common as it is now. We still had to write letters and make phone calls and and there was no texting, you know, it's all different millennials. So we'll talked to her say, hey, you know what, how would you like to work
together with me on on Roswell? And that's where we really started working on Roswell together, and which was really good idea too, because uh, you know, I hate to say this, you know, but what's the what's the nice way of saying? I farmed up my my sister to help. Let's just call it what it is. You pimped her out out. I pimped her out. I mean no sex involved, obviously, but I pimped her out with to Walter and bait for Walter Hat and Glenn Dennis the guys
over to the museum. Uh, they've already I've been there for a few years. If anybody picks up the book, you'll see a picture of me and my three kids, and you've barely see my wife, but you'll see we're standing in front of my motor home. And so back in the day, I would take the motor home and we go on vacation by wave Roswell or by wave Aztec or by way of towels and all these other places. So I'm sure it's worked the other way too, because you know, even
doing real estate or doing this sort of thing. You know, it works with my girlfriend and I. Some people tend to gravitate towards the man or the woman, you know, and and open up to one and not both. So I'm sure some of your your witnesses who are female kind of liked opening up to you more than your sister. Absolutely. And sometimes I come and you know this, I come across a little strong sometimes, so you do know that. So, uh, and Debbie's not different. We have
two different personalities. I'm I'm a little you know, she's a little bit country. I'm a lot of bit rock and roll. That's that's kind of
usually how we do it, and so it's really easy. She got us, you know, into Glenn Dennis's office and and and we chatted and ultimately we we got a hold of GPS coordinates to uh, you know, to where the debris side is and GPS cordinates to the Jim Ragsdale's side, and and and off we went, you know, I mean, right after we got to coordinates, it was the next day, We're in my jeep and off we went. I mean, it was that quick. And it's been
that way ever since. So it's a lot of fun. Uh. Now, my other two sisters, my sister Linda's the oldest sister, Diane is the third, so Debbie's in between the two, she's the second, and it's me and then I have a brother Andy and then a brother Ron. And I think what happened is because as siblings go, my sister and I were getting a lot of attention the aufology, and the other two sisters going, well, we want some you know, we want to know what's going
on too. Better be careful because they might listen to this. Linda is on my Facebook a lot, and and from what I understand, at least when you're younger she's not afraid to Oh god, she still isn't. I'm afraid of her around a little. She's got it. I love obviously. I love my sisters, you know, all three of them. So I think what happened with Linda and Diane, yea, Linda was the first. She likes to get involved, and it's you know, she saw Debbie and
I were doing the UFO stuff and she was intrigued with it. So she got involved and one thing led to another, and you know, she's working for mof on and then she I think Diane was already sort of getting involved because at that point what was happening was, you know, Debbie would go to the move on some posiums in California, and when she was there or or or the meetings, and when she was there, she would visit, you know, the family, and so that kind of it kind of sparked
her interest and they got more and more involved in that, and I think that's what happens. I always like to think that that there's a little bit of jealousy there because they wanted to be with you know, with their brother. Well it was funny because in Roswell, you know, you were like, oh no, my sisters are here, because you know, just this last year we were all speaking for the paper and Linda was like, oh, he's just worried I'm gonna bossom around, and you were like, yep,
exactly exactly. But she's she's doing well, she's learning. I mean, just today there was this story and unfortunately one of our fellow researchers, I guess i'll just use his name, Michael Salah. Unfortunately he's he's very loose in the way he researches, I feel, and he speculates a lot.
And recently he's posted these pictures of what to me clearly looked like balloons and said, oh, these are evidence that the Air Force is working with aliens because these these sightings quote unquote were over McGill Air Force Base, and so mcgil made fun of these, this comment that he was making, and one of the local papers wrote about it, and your sister looked at the images and one of them, she said, that looks like a solar balloon,
because there's these big you're probably familiar, but these big, long balloons that sometimes that you fill up with air and actually the heat from the sun heats them up and they float and that's why they're called solar balloons, and they often get mistaken for UFOs. And she's exactly right. I think she's exactly right. And I was like, wow, Linda's you know, getting
to know her stuff. She is getting to and it's it's really cool to see that too, because you know, I can I can have conversations with
both all three of my sisters. You know, Debbie obviously is the expert, but you know, it's we can all sit down together and we did it Roswell, you know, we would have drinks afterwards, and we talked to UFO stuff and it was so cool that I could talk to UFO stuff with my three sisters and they all knew and they can all relate and they can always and not only that, but they can add stuff too, which was even more you know, cool, rather than just said it going uh
huh, well it's cool too, because you know, Linda is she's in California working with headquarters of moufon. Debbie is on the board, the business board, and she's a state director in Missouri. And then there's you, you know, work in the field and Roswell and Colorado and then working with Ben and on your book and everything. So you all have these different areas you live in, and I think Diane's out here in Arizona, right,
No, she's in California also. Okay, so you're all in these different areas, so you all are seeing different things and can share all this stuff. Yeah. Oh, I'm also a director of animal mutilation investigations from moof on time. Oh I forgot now, Debbie, Debbie wrote me into that one. But it's okay. You know, I'm more of a consultant. Cattle mulation investigations or cattle mutilations are probably one of the scariest investigations that I
ever do or think. Well, yeah, you obviously know that, and and knowing it firsthand, you know that that when you walk in on an animal, you really don't know how it died. You really really don't. I mean, you know, there's there's always that thought behind that it could be a virus and now you know, now you're going to be infected with the virus or or something else, right, or some type of bacteria or
something we don't know about. And then I mean just natural stuff. Okay, now you say you pull out all the side and go okay, here this animal died, but now we don't know how it died because it died by an unknown entity, So how did they kill it? Now you got to worry about that too. So one of the things that you know, and even today when I talk to people, that's I always say, you know, as as a director of Animal Mulation Investigations REMUFA, when I talk
to anybody, goes, oh, I want to do that. Oh that's a lot of fun. I'm going you know, you uh, it's just not as fun as going out looking for lights. This is you know, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of uh pre training, a lot of research, a lot of prep work first before you do your first one, or you'll just muck it up, or you'll muck yourself up or something or or or you'll make a full of yourself to the rancher and and and
that'll be it. Because animal mutilation, it's it's it's really cool and and really it's any type of of it's all different types of UFO investigations, especially craft sightings. You really have to earn the respect of the of the witness, you really do. And we don't get a lot of the good stuff, you know, they don't get called in. Uh, it's word of mouth. You know, you hear this, you hear that. And then if you have a contact somewhere, the contact's gonna call you or contact you
somehow, and it's uh. And and because you've already got that little bit of respect. And then just by the word of one and it's happened a couple times, just because one rancher said, hey, this guy is on the level I give you. You know, you've got my word. That's all it takes. Because these are ranchers, these are cowboys. You know, they don't need sign on the dot line. They say, you know, hey, you know, a handshake and you're good to go. It's
really, really cool. One of one of my most favorite types of investigations because you're you're working with rural America. You're right out there, and you know, who knew I'd be sitting there walking through cattle, you know, walking through cattle ranches and walking through the herd and and of course avoiding the bulls. But you know I was a city boy. Yeah, well that's what was fun. Because of course we did that one early one together and
I learned very quickly because of that smell. I didn't want to do this
anymore. I mean, it was it was hard to be by the animal, But like you said, working with the ranchers was incredible because you know, you got to see get really the sense of wonder that they had, and they got to share their experience and how you know, they see dead animals all the time, but when they're really scratching their head and then the neighbors are coming by and saying, hey, what are you guys doing out here, and you know, we're explaining and they're saying, oh, we've
got these two weirdos out here. I want to look at my dead cow. But you know, but they're saying, you know, and they're explaining that, yeah, we don't know how the hell that thing's got is dead either, because there are other ranchers who also experienced it. So it's crazy part. Yeah. I mean twenty sixteen, you know, northwestern part of Colorado. In July, we had an animal mulation in Nevada, and August we had two of them in the same ranch, twenty fifth and thirty first.
In September of twenty eighth, we had four in Wisconsin. That's you know, that's just the ones that I dealt with, and for everyone that I hear about, usually the rancher tells us about other things. The Wisconsin one lights were seeing, and then Nevada one lights were seeing. Lights were seen in Nevada one a year before and then and then a week afterwards in the Wisconsin one where I got to work on on on two of the four. That's why I say possibly four, because the other two kind of mimicked
the you know, mimic the first two. But lights were seeing in that area a week afterwards. And then this year we've had as far as I know, it's been kind of slow for animal mulations. We had an animal mulation in in Arizona near Mobile, Arizona, and uh, other than that, it's been some bigfoot sightings and ghosts investigations and stuff like that. So this isn't this isn't something that's that's going away. It's it's still out there. And uh, God is so exciting too when you when you have to
deal with it. Oh, I gotta tell you real quick, I know, a real quick. The cattle mutilation in Wiscon Uh, the first remulation, the lady called the company to pick it up, pick up the carcass to move it to get out, and she went out the next day and the animal was gone, and they go cool. And so she called them up because I said, Okay, where'd you take it? Because I want to call them and I want them to see if they've ever seen an animal
like that, did that had all these strange cuts. She calls them up and they said, no, we didn't pick up the animal because when the driver went buying saw what the animal looked like, it looked biological like maybe there was biological cuts and stuff, and they won't they and they thought they deemed it as a hazard, so they didn't picked it up. Yet somebody picked up that animal, wow, and took it. Yeah, that's really weird. So that's a good one. So when is a movie? When
do you think the movie might be coming out? Well, obviously we need to screen screenplay first, so you know, once we get the screenplay out, they've already had a couple of actors that have been following this now for about a year, a couple of acts for you, yeah, well for me or for parts in the in the in the movie, and and I'm and I'll just give you I'll just give you a hint. And the reason now it's actually no, he's gone uh actually uh, it's the guy who
plays Iron Man, Robert. Yeah, he's interested in it. And the only reason why I can and the only reason why I can tell you that is because USA Today broke the you know, broke that news, you know, earlier this year. So maybe Gwyneth Paltrow will play Debbie. Well,
you know, I don't know. I basically he's just interested in it from what from uh you know, but it's just like you get some actors that are just interested in the roles and and it's just from what I hear is like you know, they've contacted the studio say yeah, that's kind of cool concept. You let us know when you know, you get a screenplay and
we'll grab a screenplay, look at it or whatever. I mean. Now, that's been a couple couple of months ago, and last I last I heard in May is with you know that he was still interested in it. But you know, you could be interested in a couple of different areas of the movie too, you know, but it's kind of cool. It's yeah,
very cool. Well, you'll have to stay in touch, you know, we'll have to have you on and get some updates and have you back in a not too distant future and hopefully we'll see each other again too. And it's always fun hanging out and what we've been working together for. Probably has it been maybe fifteen years? You think? Yeah, you know, little Buddy's still popping up out there. I go back and check it every time I'm over there. I stop and talking. One of our excitings we
worked in in south Park. Yeah, in south Park, Yeah, one of your favorite shows too, Yeah, because it has aliens. Yeah. All right, Well, thanks for being on the show again, and it's always good talking to you and it's really excited. Congratulations. Hey, well, thank you very much, and for your listeners out there, if you have any questions, go to UFO Nuts dot com and just email me. It's just one of those things that I was called at the very beginning to
call me nuts. I just decided to roll with it and make a web page and just go there and I'll answer any questions. All right, Thanks, Hey, thanks a lot, are all right? Thank you so much to Chuck e Z for being on the show, the original UFO Nut, or at least in the UFO Nut. Yep, you can visit him at UFO nut dot com. And you know what's kind of helpful for the rest of us, because if someone says, man, you just know the bud uillphone Nut, you could be like, no, I'm not ufone nut.
Chuck is the UFO Nut. So thank you for that service you provide us. Charles. Anyway, Chuck is a great guy. It's great to be able to catch up with him. We'll have Debbie's egomeyer on and then not too distant future. She had some great stuff to say at Devil's Tower, some really interesting cases that she covered. So a wonderful family, the Zukowskis. So if you see him online, they're on my Facebook periodically say hi. There's a number of them out there, as we discussed. So also
look out for the book. It is called thirty seventh Parallel and written by Ben Mezricks. You can find that at your local bookstore. Really interesting stuff. We'll have to watch out for the movie. How cool will that be if Robert Downey Junior is playing him? Wild Man, really wacky wild stuff. Otherwise, the UFO Congress, we have a bunch of new people listed, so you've got to check that out. Really really cool stuff that I think you're gonna love. Also, we have Michael Carter, by the way,
someone we've had on quite a bit. It's a lot of fun. He's gonna be speaking, but many others, so you'll have to check that out. It's updated on a regular basis. There's only a week left to get the super early bird discount. That is the cheapest you'll be able to get tickets at the entire year, So go online, go to Ufocongress dot com right now and go get tickets. Otherwise, we have a lot of really cool stories at Openminds dot tv right now on Spielberg, on Nick Popen
and the UK's most incredible UFO photo. Oh, really good stuff. And then I wrote one today on Mark D'Antonio. You know, we talked about that earlier in the show. So everything that Martin I and I talked about you can find it openminds dot tv. Be sure to patronize also Martin Show UFO podcast. Thank you Martin for being on the show. And at UFO Congress dot tv or open Minds dot tv you can watch the videos on demand.
Now you can watch videos for free, so tons hundreds, literally over one hundred UFO lectures from some people you'll never ever see again because they've either passed or they just don't do UFO lectures, so you'll be able to check that out at ufocongress dot com as well. I also want to thank the people who do music, so Caleb Hanks with the opening and close music and Systematics. What a cool name they do that Bumper music. And i've played
their music before, really really cool stuff. Systematics is what they're called, So thank you to those who have donated music. Otherwise, I want to think, of course, the most important people of all the listeners, that is you. Thank you so much for joining me every week. And guess what, we're gonna have a show next week too. So I know we had to miss a show because I was at the Devil's Tower, but you know, lots of really cool stuff resulted from that, so please please forgive
me. That is it for this week. We'll talk to you soon. Until next time, Audios moved chuchos, you must