This is a commercial, free archive edition of our live radio show that airs every Friday at noon, Arizona time on openminds dot TV. Welcome to open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former Director of Public Education and official spokesperson for the Mutual ufone Network, Aalajandro, who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalist for nearly a decade and has logged hours in the field investigating the
paranormal up close and personal. And now Open Minds Radio presents evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. This is Alejandro Rojas and we have another exciting show today. Our guest is going to be Chuck Zukowski. He is a paranormal investigator, and we're going to be talking about cattle mutilations.
There were several that happened in Colorado and you may be thinking, cattle get killed all the time, what's the big deal, But these are mysterious cattle mutilations where even the local authorities actually went to Chuck, this paranormal investigator to help them figure out what the heck is going on because they don't know who or what is mutilating these cattle. They've been found in these very strange situations,
and we'll talk more about that when Chuck comes on the line. He's an electronics engineer and a reserve Deputy sheriff in El Paso County, Colorado. That's in Colorado Springs, home of the Air Force Academy and Air Force Space Command. There is an Air Force Space Command read more about it on Google. He's an accomplished UFO and paranormal investigator and he's going to be talking to
us about his work with the authorities on these mutilations. He was even able to get the Colorado State University to help him out with this mystery, and they're one of the top BET schools in the country, so that's really exciting. All of this has happened in or around the mysterious San Luis Valley in Colorado, So if you're not aware of that, there's been strange things happening in this valley for years. I should just share my San Luis story.
Actually, my family's from that valley. My great grandma grew up there and when she was a little girl, she remembers being under the dinner table when there was a pounding that came to the door. They opened the door and this guy panic said that he had been chased by a six foot praying mantis all night, and so her father and uncle actually grabbed their guns and went out looking for this thing, which they never found. But that's just one
of the many strange stories that happens in the San Luis Valley. Maybe we'll ask Check if he's got some more if you want to read more about Check. He's a guy in this field who takes things seriously but also has a sense of humor. As you're going to find his website, it's ufot dot com. You want to look more into this UFO net that we're going to have on today. However, before we talk to our guests, as usual, we're going to update you on UFOs. In the news. These are
headlines from conventional media around the world. We keep an eye on what's going on out there, and we post these stories on our website at Openminds dot tv. But today we have our news correspondent, Jason McClellan. Jason, what's the news out there? Thanks? Alejandro. In the news this week, If you've ever wanted to send a message into space, here's your chance. SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, is marking its fiftieth anniversary by
using a radio telescope to send five thousand messages into space. Messages can be submitted to SETI, and the fifty best messages will be published in the Daily Telegraph in March, and those winners will also receive copies of ASU professor Paul Davies' new book, The Air Silence. So what message would you send into space? Yo? Just yo, just yo, Yeah, kind of disagreeing, you know, Hey, yo, hmmm, I'd have to give it
some thought. You know what I think is funny about this, though, is at SETI, even though they're called Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, you think they'd be our buddies. They're not, because they're real skeptical. They're using radio signals and they have a concern these days because we're not using that technology
anymore. I don't know why they assume that some advanced civilizations out there would use it, But really you could go on your two way radio and send the message on your two way radio, and those radio waves I believe are going to go out into space. So I don't know why we need them to do it, but yeah, that's what I say. Yo. Hopefully they're already listening to our radio show. Yeah, they could be. Our
radio show's probably going out into space. Also in the news, Richard Heen, father of the balloon Boy, was released from jail on Sunday after serving twenty eight days for his role in the hoax that sent rescue teams chasing after the infam helium powered balloon. Heen was released two days early from his thirty day sentence and is now serving sixty days through the work release program. Heen and his wife both pled guilty in November to falsely reporting that their six year
old son had floated away in a UFO shaped balloon. Yeah, all in a stunt to try to get out their own UFO program, which is really sad, and it may have worked, we'll see, but I mean he spent some time in prison for it. So. In other news, according to Michael Mautner, a research professor of chemistry at Virginia Commonwealth University, we have a moral obligation to seed the universe with life, preparing other worlds to
develop and sustain complex life therefore giving human existence a cosmic purpose. Matner claim's current technology can accomplish the task of launching directed panspermia missions. Wow, that sounds like a term that would be used in some futuristic sci fi movie where an old man is having a conversation with a younger man telling him that, oh, well, you know, a man your age should be out launching directed pant spermia sewing wild oats, yeah, in space, sow your wild
oats in space. Yeah. It reminds me of James Kirk, you know, Star Trek. That's what he was trying to do. That's right, and he was having fun doing it, it seems like. So that's great. You can read more about Professor Mattner's ideas in the upcoming issue of Journal of Cosmology. That's all for me. I'm your Open Minds News Open Minds News correspondent Jason McClellan, and I'll kick it back to you a hondro.
All right, thanks Jason. We also have our own featured news that we have on our website, and this week we have a story on the Irish. We talked a little bit about it last week. Actually, the Irish being given credit for a UFO video that was actually taken in California, and there was some confusion there because The Sun, a popular paper in the UK, had said that there was this new exciting video that was just found and it was filmed over Ireland. And the video they showed is a very interesting
video. I think it's definitely something to look at. They had Nick Pope, who it worked for the Ministry of Defense in the UK investigating UFOs, talked about it. He found it to be pretty incredible, but it wasn't new and it wasn't shot in Ireland. In fact, it was posted on YouTube about a year ago and the guy claimed to have taken in Fremont,
California, using night vision technology. So it's kind of gray where you see this triangular configuration flying above the city and it kind of makes like this, you sort of motion and flying very quickly. So it's very strange what that might be. So who knows. It could be some black project, some secret advanced technology, or of course it could be from elsewhere yet to be seen. So we'll keep you up to date on that. But you can
read more about that story and watch that video at openminds dot tv. We also have kind of a cool one out there on the brilliant buzzard, and these are some black projects. We got a guy, Michael Schratt on our team now who is in an aerospace historian, and he's been looking into what some of the top secret craft that we have might be, what might be flying around. And he uses some witness testimony from engineers or people who say
they were in the military gassing one of these things up or something. So some amazing stuff. And if you think about even the brand new craft out there, like the F twenty two Raptor, which is brand new, you know, but that was developed like twenty years ago or something, So who knows what they may have out there. It's amazing what there might have out there. So I'm really excited. After the break here, which we're going to take in just a few seconds, we're going to have Chuck to talk
about cattle mutilations. Some of you have probably heard about mutilations, some of you haven't. But I'm really proud of my good buddy Chuck here who went and actually worked with authorities. He's got a great personality and he's a deputy sheriff, so people like to work with them. And also doing a great job by getting CSU involved, because it's rare that people get universities to get into the paranormal. So we'll be talking to Chuck right after the break.
If you're listening to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio, I Love one hundred. All right, we're back, and I want to remind you that some of these cool feature stories we've been talking about at Openminds dot tv are also made into little news beaturette videos by our excellent video producer Tom Ruffin and his crew. So you got to check those out. You'll see them right on the front page, so they're they're hard to miss.
But now, ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have the one and only Chuck Zukowski on the line. Chuck, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. You're really excited to hear from yourself. Huh Hey, I tell you who I have, my fellow Arizona Ice. I was born in Stafford. Oh that's right. I forgot you were born out here. That's right. But now you're living in beautiful Colorado. Wow, beautiful cold Colorado. We had snow yesterday and I think it's about forty degrees now today.
Well, to start off getting off of the bad news of the cold weather out there, because you know, we've got like seventy plus weather out here and it's beautiful. I'm happy about my move. But start off with what got you interested in investigating the paranormal? Oh my gosh, I think I've been interested in it ever since I can remember. You know, someone else have asked me that last year, and I think as a kid, I might have saw something that kind of you know, sparked my interests and I
decided to stick with that. I do remember when I moved from California out to Colorado and I said, I'm going through some of my old stuff. I did to find some old books that I had bought when I was in elementary that was based on UFOs. So I've always had a fascination with it. And of course six kids in my family, only two of us were really UFOE investigators. And decided to go into that field against me and my sister Debbie, and we really didn't even know each other. We're going into
that field until we did a family reunion. Yeah, that's so cool talking about it, and it's not just an interest, but Debbie's Egomele, your sister is a great researcher. Also, I mean you guys are out there. I mean you're big time researchers who are out there doing conferences and talking to people, and it's just not a passion. It's something that you guys do on a probably almost spend as much time as you do on your regular
jobs. Unfortunately, I'd love to spend as much time for my regular shop, and you know, but something has to be able to fund my hobby, and my regular job is that. But spent a pretty exciting year so far. In January, I've done two bigfoot investigations with our good friend Joe Sex out there in the northwestern part of Colorado up in the Pipe. Seeks are actually Colorado National Force. And then last Saturday I jumped in on a
ghost investigation at a famous Stanley hotel. Cool this park was that your first
time going to the Stanley? Well at ended the Stanley a few times I was doing their ghost tours and I had joined had given me a three D in the Shikha camera, which is kind of cool if for stuff ends on it, and so a lot of what experiments I swung by there last Saturday to do their five o'clock ghosts investigation our ghost tour excuse me, and they were offering an investigation from APM till one in the morning, and they had a slat open, so I jumped in and I happened to have my kit
my car with my night vision and trifild meter and digital recorder and three D camera that's on the website. Matter of fact, last night and tonight, I'm still pulling some video clips off of off of my high eight. I did pick up a couple of orbs and uh, I did pick up some pretty interesting responses to my Trifield meter when I was talking through particular individually.
Yeah, getting into that one. I guess one thing about the Stanley Hotel that people should know is that the movie The Shining was based on the Stanley Hotel. Uh So it is a very famous haunted hotel where lots of people get some weird stuff. But now knowing you and you're mentioning some of your equipment, you're em after reader and all of that, and knowing that you're into the various paranormal fields such as ghosts and UFOs, just real quick before
we move on, even with the cattle mutilations. Do you find some sort of similarity between these different paranormal areas. That's a very very good question, Aleandra, and I'm at just staying at Visu're my good buddy, But yeah, you know, cattle mutilations. We've had UFO fighting around catmulation areas also where there's been a strange military presence around calamulation sightings. Alien abductions sometimes rolls
into the supernatural. I did have a couple of years ago, I had a lady contact me that she thought that she was being objected, and when I went and checked it out, it was more of a supernatural thing. So at the time, I mighty have the equivalent to do a parent you know, of a rust investigation, and then versa visa. You know, you would have someone that's possibly thinking that their house is haunted in this typical
abduction scenario. So I think we're seeing some carts over there. And as an investigator, you really have to get familiarized with all the different aspects. So you're going out and saying, I'm sorry, ma'am, you're not being abducted. Those are only ghosts, or no, you don't have ghosts in your house, you're actually being abducted. Yeah. Really, it's not too often will the ghosts actually put an implant in you? Yeah, unless unless
it's something new, I'm not quite sure. You know, we have to see on top of that and Verst advice that you know, where people seem to think and we find out that, you know, it's really some paranormal activity. And I'm pretty excited, you know. I've been, uh, I've been trying to pick up some of my uh my equipment and and change
change over. And I've got a couple of Sony CCD night visions cree cameras actually they're they're due to arrive today via ups and that I got D D R and a kind of stuff because you know, slowly you have to start picking up, you know, your tools and getting them up to date.
Yeah. That's one thing why guys love this sort of stuff because you get to have lots of toys that you play with and get out there little things at beef and mics moving well, you know, the last two Bigfoot investigations, and the first one I had three night vision cameras set up in and a wildlife camera set up and then the one the two Saturdays go well. And I know that I talked to you about that. I know you guys
didn't get a whole lot. You kind of a secret or some kind of super squirrel who we're able to do some incredible stuff on your videos, But where you were more fruitful and one of your investigations was a cattle mutilation. So I want to talk about that. I know we're going to have actually an article in our magazine that is coming out in a couple of months, and not in the first issue, but in the second issue, where we'll
have some of the pictures. Unfortunately, it's it's hard to get pictures that aren't very unpleasant when it comes to cattle mutilations. But to start off with these cattle mutilations, what has indicated to you in these cases or historically in cases of cattle mutilations, why it doesn't lead to predators or humans that seem to be doing this. Well? First off, you know, we had one of the first cases was Lady the Horse not Sniffy out here in the
Satele's Belly back in sixty seven. And since nineteen sixty seven, at least out here in the United States, we've had multiple cattle mutilations occurring almost every year, and since then no one's been caught, convicted, tried, you
know, the whole bit. So you know, the human aspect would be these guys would be affible, actually phenomenal because they're able to you know, pick up anywhere from a you know, nine hundred to you know, a twelve thirteen hundred pound animal, do their business with the animal, you know, extracting blood and doing the surgical tests and removal of organs, and then putting the animal back with no trace evidence at all. So that's so you're
saying, essentially, yeah, these animals are taken. Uh, organs are seem to be sturgically removed, and what organs typically are removed, well, you know that's with my five you know particular cases we really except for the calves, for everything was removed. With the two calves that I did last year, the Miller case and the Sanchiz case, the whole center sction of
the animal was completely gone. All the organs were gone, everything, and they even you know, basically cleared out the inside of the rig cage, so your lungs, your heart, everything was missing. Uh. Generally you see pieces of the animal missing. You'll see the sexual organs removed, or or the anal area will be removed, or maybe an eye. A lot of times the tongue is gone. So it seems like at first we're seeing anything that goes in goes out of the animal. That particular area was affected
by, uh, you know, by the mutilation. But last year it became very destructive the point where you know, all the center section of these small calves were just completely just obliterated, just removed. And for such destruction, and not to see any signs of blood, blood splattering, pieces of meat pulling, you know, a car up pieces of the carcass from you
know, scavengers. All that's avoid as matter of fact. What is interesting and I did learn from the five well now that you know, some people say, or some other investigators say that when an animal gets mutilated that other scavengers and predators of mat predators and scavengers won't touch, and that's not true. I have plenty of evidence of scavengers have touched the you know, mutilation
case piece that I personally see. But what's interesting about that is is they don't go and gavage the unusual cutting parts wherever the animals have you know, had the unusual cut, surgical looking touch. They won't touch that, They'll go somewhere else. And what's really really unusual about that is is you'll see it's basically smoke moved rightly. Some fresh meat doesn't make sense. They don't have to pull through the hide to go right into some nice soft meat.
It's all right there. No, they'd rather go somewhere else on the animal, you know, to eat. And that part found very very interesting in
all five cases. Yeah, well, we'll get into more details about all of these five cases after our break that's coming up here, and we'll get into more detail about these animals where everything was removed and it didn't seem to be predator killed because, like you said, there wasn't blood in the area or pieces in parts of these organs are around where the animal was found. Is which is typical for a predator kill. So, and which is why
the authorities were so baffled. And we'll get more into that and go over these five cases that you investigated as soon as we get back from our break. So stay tuned people, you're listening to Open Minds Radio on KFNX eleven hundred. This is Open Minds Radio here again, your host UFO paranormal researcher
and journalist Alejandro Rojas. All right, we are back. I want to remind you we're going to open up the phone lines here in a minute, but feel free to call in right now and see in the queue get your question ready. You can call us at six oh two two seven seven five three six' nine, or if you're outside of the area and you're watching us at open mindst TV on the live stream, you can call one eight sixty six five three six eleven hundred. For more information about Chuck, you
can read a story. We've got a story of him up on Open mindset TV, but you can also go to his awesome website ufo nut dot com. And your website just keeps getting better. Check it's looking really good. Hey, thank you very much. I'm sure that Morgan, the person who Sparkle for my website come. I appreciate that. I'm just emailing them right now. Cool. I mean you've got your own videos up there too. Well. You know, we have to be able to compete with the big
guys. Yep, that's that's the big guys, the big guys. I don't mean that at a you know, modular way. Are you making fun of my weight? No, I'm not making fun of your way as far as you know. But let's get into some of these cattle mutilations you investigated. First was the Mike Durand case. And what was that? That was March. That was about a year ago, right, Yeah, absolutely, we're we're looking at about No, the last time the animal was seen was
on Sunday, March Ese and then we rolled down their March. Oh, what was that? I guess we're looking at the week after that, March Ese. Yeah, we were out there tenth or eleventh or something like that. Yeah, I think cure it was. It was a tent so and interesting enough, this guy had UFO sidings and he believed his animal was mutilated by extraterrestrials. Yeah. What's interesting about that was this was the second time
that he's been hit. He was hit previously back in the late eighties, so he's, you know, we are I guess we can refer to him as somewhat experienced in having this event happened to, you know, a person before. And even back then, he's mentioned that he's saw usual life before the animals, you know, his animals. Relative now to the five cases, two of the ranchers actually saw unusual like Duran being one and then Manuel
Sanchez and the other. What I found interesting with Mike Durant's cases, this animal was found and this one wasn't totally obliterated like some of the others. But this animal was found at the bottom of a large ridge and it was a little difficult for us to get down there. So, I mean, it didn't look like predators because there weren't pieces and parts and blood around. And if it were done by humans, how did they kill the animal?
If they did it somewhere else because there wasn't a mess there, how the heck would they have gotten the animal down there? You know what I really liked about this particular case, and I really have favorite things about all five of the cases. What I liked about this one was the animal. Half of the animal was laying partially, you know, in the stream, and the other half, you know, the legs, the hud of you know,
they were right on the bank of the stream in the mud. Now, if an animal was going to die, it would have struggled a little bit, especially if it was predators, you know, that were taking it down, there would be marks in the mud. There would be score marks from the animal trying to move its legs to trying to get back up. And when we got this, you know, chance to see that as it looks as if the animal was just placed there or if it fell down.
It's just you know, it fell down like it was frozen solid without moving its legs at all. Right, So you're looking at the evidence there, you can clearly see that there was no stroll at all, because we would have seen it in the mud, and the mud was dried in certain areas around you know, the front and hind legs. So that was what I liked really good about that particular case is the lack of well and the perfect perfect environment to to prove that there was no struggle, right, And this
was a case where what the otter was taken. I remember that the anal area was cored out so kind of like the other historical cases. And it was also in view I mean it was probably a ways a few hundred feet, but in view of a house. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty
close to a small highway, not a big one. What's interesting also about this animal is it was twenty eight years old and it was one of his favorite animals because it was twenty eighth and he took care of it a little bit differently, you know, said it a little bit extra and extra vitamins. So being a favorite animal, he he knew that there was you know when you know, if they were sick or he would know if there was problems with it, just because you know, he considered a head somewhat and
when you started missing, he was looking for it. And with this case, this is where you first started to work with authorities because I remember, I think you saw this on the news and the police had said they were baffled, and I believe you contacted the police at that point and they got you in touch with Duran. Is that how it worked? Yeah, I
actually actually have it here. I think it was I called when my first time on the news, I contacted the local uh kawa a UH channel, it doesn't matter, and I contacted them and they got me in touch with the lockdown and as County Sheriff's department, and I talked to a Deputy l
Elliott there and I asked him to give me a favorite. Could you contact the rancher had and give the rancher you know, uh mind name and the rancher you know did that he did, you know, he did fall you know, go through with him, which I was pretty excited he did. But that's you know, I basically tracked the first one down after it came out of the news, and so unfortunately, you know, we were there a good week or so after it actually happened. You would love to be
at an investigation within thirty six hours. But this was still a very good
case and samples were taking. Even though the samples were somewhat gift handed to do to you know, longetivity of the animal being you know dead and then being on stream to you know, call us, the university was still able to look at the samples to determine whether or not the country post motor or pre Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit more about that, but I did want to talk about how did how were the authorities, what was their disposition? How are they treating you? And what you do? And uh,
you know, what did they tell you about the case. Well, it's interesting, it really depends on the case. With their en case, they were very helpful and I got the information really quick where I was able to set up in the investment, you know, a investigation that Saturday. A couple better cases. H After talking to the ranchers, it seems as though its the local UH County Cheers department. We were interested or not even
interested. I guess that pretty much all depends upon the deputy. He goes out there and looks at it. If he has somewhat of an open mind, then you're going to get a little more information out of him. If he has a friend's mind, and just those they're already with the assumption that it's that it's a predator and scavengers that did the damage, they're not really going to get too much out. But you know, the deputies like me, you know, we're you know, we're human. We have in our
own difference. We're all brought up differently, so you know when we look at these things, where you look at them a little differently and you would help, you would, you know, be talking to someone with law enforcement that has a very open mind. Now, how are you so sure that these other deputies are human? Actually, though they did admit though that they were baffled. They it sounds like at least they admitted to the to the
media that they weren't sure who or what had done this. Well, you know, at first the end case was pretty good and they did admit that, and then we had the Miller and Garren after that, and it kind of, uh, they were kind of getting suspicious, like, oh, well, now we have a predator because it's happened a couple of times. And then it was kind of slow until we're looking at November December when we had two more and the manual Stanchez one that that you know you guys had
on your website. The local sheriff's department was really baffled by that, and the Denver Post. There was an article on the Denver Posts where the reporter went down there and talked with me. Then, yeah, yeah, that was a great article. Now we've got to go to break, but I want to talk more about how the authorities continued to be involved with these cases and baffled by these cases, and then we'll get into how the university got
involved with these catter mutilations. We're talking to Jacksukowski, paranormal investigator. We'll be back in a minute. Welcome back to Open Minds Radio. Here now official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network your host of Open Minds Radio, Avaljandro Rojas. We're back with Open Minds and we're talking about cattle mutilations here,
very strange stuff. And we're talking about the authorities. These big tough deputy police officers out there in Colorado shaking in their boots because they don't know what is mutilating these animals in their county. Remember, you can call in. Call in right now, everybody, call in and ask your question about cattle mutilations. The number six oh two two seven seven, five three six nine or toll free one eight sixty six five three six eleven hundred. Don't be
afraid. Chuck's a really nice guy. And uh, that's probably why you got to work with so many authorities. I checked. In fact, wasn't it the authorities who plugged you in or tuned you in to the cases after the durand mutilation? Yeah, Actually, the one of the brand inspectors tied me in on a couple of cases and uh, and then uh, one of the representatives from the Castila Sheriff's Department I was able to talk to,
tied me into into one. Actually, ill you know, but after the fact, I think after the firm actually actually after Duran, the more and more this information gets out, like on your radio show, in the in the news, in the media, the more that people know who to contact. Because basically, with the very last case that I called, you know, I call the Air and Mutilation, you know, which is not the real rancher's name. He just didn't want to have to deal with the media.
What happened was the case occurred, the sheriff's department came out, this particular representative, sheriff's department didn't seem that interested, and so basically the rancher himself started looking around for help. Gotcha, And that also happened with the Manuel Sanchez case. Yeah, we do have a collar on the line. So let's take this question from our caller real quick online when we've got Ted. Are you there, Ted? Yeah, sure, Ted from Awatuk.
Yes, Sir, I was wondering how much the government involvement has it been in some of these cases? And I'll hang up and listen. Okay, great, thanks for the question. How much has the government been involved in it? Yeah? That was a question, right, That's a good question. That's something that we always ask ourselves too. I do know that out of here in Colorado back in the eighties when they had a stringities cattle mulations
going on. Before that, all the all the lawn law enforcements all through Colorado since and represented them down to the Saint Louis Valley on the weekend for a quick cattle mutilation lecture. Wow, And it was pretty serious about that back then. Uh So, you know, that's about close I can say that the government's been involved. Now if you're thinking further, you know,
up the ladder, that's a that's a really good question. We have seen, our witnesses have seen no military type individuals, military type vehicles in an area where cattle mulations have occurred. That's not the case for you know, the five that I did last year. But I personally believe that they know what's going on, and at least I would hope that they It's interesting that they wouldn't get very involved with this. Uh And I know, and and
then the question is are they the ones doing it? And I know some of the famous mutilation that happen right near the San Luis Valley on the border of New Mexico and Colorado at the Bacca Ranch. There's a sheriff there who's looked into it, and he believes that these are being done by the military, but who knows, huh, why would they do that? And if it is being done by the military, then gifts in conjunction to militaries or
or they have their hands in it all over the world. I got an email just well, I guess it was the end of last week about mutilations in England. They've had tons of them. I've got emails from Canada, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Chile. You know, so these aren't just happening in the United States and all. Matter of fact, last week got
pictures of a mutilation case in Kansas. Wows, just as recent as two weeks ago, are these situations where certain organs were removed or like you had found occasionally where you know, everything's gone the one in Kansas to within a couple of weeks ago, it was pretty much everything. Wow, it was a calf. So it almost seems like we're starting to see a pattern here now with the larger animals they're going in and they're doing physical cuts. With
the smaller animals, they're just taking everything in the middle. One what's interesting out of the two calves. The Miller Calf had its ears removed. I mean, if you look at the pictures on my website, it's absolutely ridiculous. Their ears are actually cut off. Yeah, obviously, you know, unless we have a scavenger with a knife in his hand, you know that he could use it and in opposable appendages to be able to hold it. Yeah, you know. Got a couple of quick questions here too. Sorry,
work only got a few minutes left. So this personto asking if you know if mutilations are in the increase since the seventies. You know, I think what's happening is and that's a very good question. I think we're being more it's being more talked about, and we're more aware of it, so we're hearing more about it. Right, So we get a lot of UFO studies out here in Colorado because it's so clear and there's not a lot of life pollutions, so people have a tendencies seeing more. And I think that's
what the case is with the mutilations. Right. And then before you know, I want to get into this before we're done, which is you getting the University of Colorado or Colorado State University involved, which is really cool because they're a great vet school, and how did they react when you ask them to participate in investigating these It was really interesting when I first went down there with some samples of the Duran and Miller and the Darren case was they were
confused. Originally there was a doctor there that had done lab analysis on back in the eighties, but he is long retired, so they had a new group of people in their and I had to sit down and basically I taught a good hour and an hour and a half lecture actually did with the you know, with the doctor there, and then you know, the interns that she was teaching, and we did a lecture on it so we can get
them up to speech and what's going to run. And then ever since that one, every relation case I've had, I contacted CSU and talked to my representative then ask when they're advice of what samples to take if I need to take samples, because basically you can take samples while you want, but unless the lab has got the facilities to test for that particular sample and what you want is it's kind of useless. Right. That's one thing I've learned in
this investigating. If you've got someone willing, and it's better to look for someone willing and capable like of course a university vet or whoever to look at these samples. Then you ask them prior to getting the samples, what's the best way to collect them and where do I collect them? Because that way you have the best samples available. And what they found in this case, if I'm not correct, was interesting that in the Durand case that they couldn't
prove it wasn't predators. But they did find that the incisions were made after the animal's death, so that these incisions weren't the cause of death, which
still is interesting. That is pretty interesting. You know, I reread that report, you know, just recently because due to another show I was on and I actually read it and I read into it again where I almost I saw them contradicted themselves, a little bit of a little bit of confusion there, you know, victory or post mortems and because there was there was no hemorrhaging, you know, no evidence of hemorrhaging. Uh, it should have if the animal was bleeding out when you know, when it cuts, they
would have been side of hemorrhaging. And in other cases they're going, well, we don't there was no times well there was, well, we don't know. So I would love to hope that the decisions were after the animal was dead, just you know, just because I'd hate to see an animal goes through all that agony of what happened. Right, Well, we found another color. I think that's all we'll have time is to take this color is called real quick and then we'll wrap up. But we got chuck online.
One another check and this one's from MASA check. Go ahead. How are you guys doing today? Great? Thanks for calling. Find a question. Now you say that the animals were dead before the incisions were made. Were there any toxicology reports done to see if these animals might have been poisoned? Another great question? And another a great question. I'll answer that real quick. Well, what happened was this Originally? How how you test for
toxology? Uh, you would take in twitter organs and we found about We found that about. So that's how the lap up after the fact. So currently, what I'm working with the College a University is we get we get a plant case that we're where it was been thirty six dollars because a lot of that stuff will dissipate over a short period of fun and you'll lose the
evidence. So they've agreed that either we're going to send the representative down with me and we'll do the property RD on site, or we're going to pick the animal in the flatbed truck and haul this animal back to Fort Collins Force csuis right. So that was a great question. Have to pick the organs? Yeah, that's a good question. You have to take the organs. Yeah, and that's the goal. That's what we're looking to do is get that done so we can tell if there was any poisoning being done. But
we got to get the animal quicker. But we are out of time, mister Zukowski. If you want to hear you guys more from Check. Yeah, thanks check uh which check think both of our checks they were both great. But you can see check at the UFO Congress and you can also meet open Minds there. That's at Ufocongress dot com, which is a conference coming up in just a couple of weeks. It goes like the week from the twenty first to the twenty eighth, So come check us out there, check
us out. Next week, we're gonna have David Serta. He's in the technology industry, and he got involved with UFO research when he found some NASA footage that apparently has UFOs in it. He's gonna talk to us about that and also his relationship with Dan Akroyd. He filmed a great documentary with Dan Akroyd who talks for two hours on Akroyd's UFO research. He's really into this. Thanks for listening to open Minds Radio. All of this can be found
at openminds dot tv. You can also get more information on advertising at open Minds Radio. We're bringing the UFO subject into the light of day and we're happy that you were here listening. Thank you, ele Gools