Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin. What the hell are you up to? Willis? That's me. Yeah, You've always got something going on this morning. You're like, oh, I'm in an office, I'm here or there. Dude. It's like you have all these secret it projects are something like you're you're are you working for the government, or something like you are black projects? And uh yes, that's why I shave my head.
So really yeah, yeah, it's all fell part of the gig. Uh huh wow, I thought so. Yeah. Yeah, but that's cool working on h let's see zero gravity propulsion right now, it's going pretty good. What are you really working on? Though? Antiques? How boring? Huh No, I think that's cool. I love antiques. Yeah, yeah, I'm cataloging away at an auction gig. Oh neat, So that's fun. That to me is exciting. I don't know about everyone else, but uh, you know, I haven't gotten a chance to watch in a while.
I used to be addicted to Antiques road Show, and then I got a girlfriend, And I think you're doing better with a girlfriend. Yeah. Well, I so I love antiques. I think that's exciting what you're up to, Betty. Yeah, well it is for me, but most people, like you know, don't want anything to it's old stuff. But to me, there's a history and story with everything, so I really like that. You know, who else has some exciting things going on right now?
Who? Chris Rutkowski really? Yeah, he's my guest for today and his group did a Canadian UFO survey that they released last week. It was reviewing UFO sidings for twenty fifteen. And boy has this report taken the media by steam by storm. Steam Steam is cool too, but yes, steam can be explosive, right, But not only the Canadian news, but the American news, Fox News, CNN. It's all over the place about UFO sidings
in Canada because of his report. And luckily, even though he's in the middle of the media storm, he was able to make some time and we were able to talk for a while. So I'm real happy about that. Wow, amazing. You know, I've been actually trying to reach Chris for my show, so I'll let a little time go by before I reach out again. Yeah, we don't have our shows with the same guests, you know, right, I know, I try to space it too, but yeah, he was able to fit me in between a couple interviews. And
he's got his job also, so he's a busy fella. But yeah, so I'm really happy. I think he felt like he owed me a little bit too, because he was a speaker at the UFO Congress this year, right, which was really cool. It's great to hang out with him there. And I didn't even get to talk to him about it because I sat him next to Jacques Vallet, who was a hero of his and we mentioned him a couple times in our interview, but I wanted to get more into that, but we just ran out of time. As you know how that
is when you get talking on these interviews. Oh yeah, yep. So yeah, that's our guest for it today. But before we do that, we've got UFOs in the news. We always let you started off. What's your UFO news story you want to start off with today, Martin, Well, I'm going back in time a bit, back to February again. Back in time's February seventeenth, nineteen ninety one. This is a this is a
move on report, but it's a Netherlands UFO witness recounts military encounter. And this was a witness in the Netherlands at Sultzenburg, and this is a move on case report that Roger Marsh has posted. And this gentleman was outside with another cadet and he came to a central parking lot at three am. He quotes that he saw a big circle in the sky straight on top of us. It had no shape, but only lights slowly rotating anti clockwise, and
the light points itself did not rotate. The colors were in a liquid manner. Now I find that interesting because you hear a lot of people talking about sort of a liquidy looking lights or lights. The object was large, and the witness wondered exactly what it was, and he estimated it was thirty to fifty meters, which is up to one hundred and fifty feet or so in diameter, and it was more or less a circular shape. And then at first he thought it was a blimp, but then he didn't know it doesn't
really make sense for that type of shape to be a blimp. And it started rotate faster and faster, and suddenly took off at a really incredible speed to the west, and a couple of seconds we fell a short hard wind blowing which stayed on top of us like a downwashed from a helicopter. Now, you don't often hear about that. A lot of times you hear about these things taking off and everything. You never hear about any sonic boom or
anything like this. Anyway, I just thought it was a great recounted sighting. Yeah, I love this one. This is really interesting. He said he was terrified by it, And I like this one statement he made too, where it moved off so quickly that that kind of extreme acceleration would turn a human into liquid. Oh right, yes, he did say that later on, right, Yeah, and yeah, that's always the one of the mysteries of this whole thing is how the occupants, don't you know, get
totally turned into jello. Yeah, so great case. I think that one's really interesting too, that this guy was so you know, freaked out by it that and that he's talking about it years later and so vividly. But yeah, pretty interesting one. Thank you for that, would buddy. Sure. I want to talk about an older one too, but not as old. This is two thousand and four and this is actually in the area where I used to live, sort of in the suburbs of Denver. Yeah,
Wheatridge. So in fact, I went to Wheatridge High School, which is nearby this area. But this is a police officer in twenty fourteen. I think I might have said two thousand and four. I meant twenty fourteen, so just a couple of years ago. But it was June twenty fourteen. This police officers in Anderson Park at about one am and he sees some multi colored lights through the trees. He said there were five or six lights.
He believed they were too red, too blue, too green, and they were moving along behind the trees on the other side of a softball field, and then he says they just turned off all at the same time, so he felt that they were under intelligent control. He thought maybe there were lights
on an ATV, but he couldn't hear anything. He went to the area and there were no tracks or any And you do see in all the pictures and everything that there's a road, but these lights are past that road, and then there's a river on the other side of the road, so that's kind of odd that they were there. Anyway, he couldn't figure out what they were. He said that he also saw in his headlights what looked like snow, but it wasn't snowing, although it was cold a little chili that
night. But this was in June, so even in Colorado it doesn't snow in June June nineteenth. It's actually pretty warm during that period of time. He even saw some sort of frost on the ground in the area. He then went back and there were some security cameras in the area and checked those security cameras and sure enough, the security cameras caught these objects on video as well, and so he provided that video to move on. This is another
mof on case that Roger marsh rode about. And in the video you do see some lights. I mean, it's not too different except they're moving steadily along. You would think the lights when you look at the video are maybe on a bike or on a vehicle, but it is past the road. And you know, he did provide these videos to move on. This is
a move on case, another one written up by Roger. However, the video is really small, so if you can kind of blow it up, like by two hundred percent, and you could see it better, and you see these lights beyond the trees. So it's a really interesting case. I think it's interesting that a police officer who's out in his car at night driving around all the time would think that this was something odd. So I think it's a pretty interesting case. Now, remember some people have said, oh,
this is kind of boring. I don't see much, but that's because the video is so small. People are kind of complaining. So you do have to even if you full screen, and it's small, so you have to kind of go into here, go in there and like do the two hundred percent where you zoom into it. But yeah, kind of cool case it is. And I think it's you know, I mean, of course
he's an officer. He can get surveillance tapes, and the fact that he went that far shows one more reason to you know, kind of respect his research into it himself. You know. Yeah, so pretty cool. That's an interesting one. So people should check that out. But before we're done, I want to talk about another one that made some big news in the
media. And I think this is really fun. And did you see this an addition to billionaire Uri Millner's breakthrough initiative where he's going to send a bunch of tiny satellites to Alpha Centauri, I can't even imagine that they are even talking about you know, I mean you hear about it would take up one hundred thousand years to get there, you know, thirty seven thousand miles an hour, which we know. So they're expecting some type of different drive or
something. Yeah, so this is cool. So it's not something new as far as the idea of how they're going to do it, but it's exciting that they're actually going to do it. I mean, in Star Trek, they've had this idea before because it is a you know, scientists have talked about it before. There's a solar sale right or oh, this is a laser sale though, isn't it. Well that's what I'm going to explain here.
Spoiler God sakes. Yeah, so this one, what I was about to say was, although you know, typically they're called solar sales, this one's a light sale. It's it's using light from a different source other than the sun. And so what this is is a light a big sale that you know, photons hit up on it and that makes it move across the vacuum of space. As you mentioned, in this case, they're going to
use lasers now in order to do that. They have to have a big array of lasers here on the Earth that shoot at these things to make them move. Now that's all exciting, but in order for these to actually move, they have to be extremely light weight because photons obviously, you know, it's not like we're feeling the weight of photons hitting upon us. As light hits upon us. We can't feel it at all. So it's a very
weak force. But what makes this possible are microchips. So the microchips have gotten so small that they're able on a tiny chip about the size of a postage stamp. That's your spaceship essentially. So they have a camera on there, the directional like the navigation, all of their other Telema tree everything's fitting on a tall or a tiny stamp size microchips. So they have this chip they attached to the sale. They put this sale out there, and then
they shoot this laser at it. This laser. By the way, this is interesting too. It takes one hundred something like one hundred something gigawatts a better double check, it's like one hundred thousand. Where is that? So I always think of gigawats when I think of back to the future. Back to the future and that was something like one point three gigawatts or something, and you know, doctor what's his face was freaking out about where the heck
are we going to get this many gigawats? Yeah, it's a hundred gigawatts, so you can imagine it's quite a bit. But they only have to have the laser shooting for like twenty minutes because it only takes these things twenty minutes to get to top speed, and that top speed is twenty percent the speed of light. Amazing, isn't that incredible? So they're gonna get up to that speed in twenty minutes. That is unbelievable. I can't believe this
thing's so small. So and what's going to do once it possibly gets there in so many years? Yeah? Years, So it's really difficult. The difficult parts are, first of all, the sail. To hit the laser, you have to be really precise, So the laser's got to hit this sail just right in order to get it to get it to moving along.
So that's also they figure that when it's moving at that speed and at this distance, it's going to take them twenty years to get there actually at this speed, so they're going to be sailing for a long time, but they have They figure that each of these little guys is probably going to hit at least four dust particles, and depending on where the particle hits, could destroy the entire craft. Because of course, even a tiny dust particle can be
devastating moving at those speeds. A dust particle hitting like you or I, if we were to be traveling at the twenty thousand or twenty percent the speed of light would be devastating and we would probably die and it would be ugly, really gory and awful. But that's why they're going to send a bunch
of them so hopefully that they all get there. Once they get there, they're only going to have a few hours to collect all the data that they can get, so they'll have their camera, will take pictures, and they're not even sure of what other devices are going to be able to fit other on this chip to collect. So of course they want to be able to get spectrauma. Spectrauma, yeah, spectro stuff. I can't say spectraumtree. I'm not looking at the word, but for some reason the word is not
coming. No, you're closer than I am, though, But anyways, essentially where they look at the makeup of the atmosphere and stuff like that, to figure out what the atmosphere is like out there. In particular, they're going to be sending it to habitable or suspected possibly habitable planet, so planets in these Goldilocks zone they talk about where it's possible for life to exist. So once they gather this data, they're going to shoot a laser back to
Earth to send all of these pictures and stuff. So they're sending it via lasers, which is another difficulty where I don't understand how can they there? Where's the laser going to be on this little stamp? This little tiny stamp is yeah, so the little stamp, that's another thing that's got to have I know, isn't amazing. They're going to have a little laser and it's
going to shoot the data back to Earth. And here's another difficult part because it's got to aim really well of course, to get that laser to hit Earth. So it's another one of the challenges. Then that data, going at the speed of light is going to take four years to get here. Wow, isn't that incredible? So then the data will be collected, hopefully and we'll be able to have pictures of our neighbors at Alpha Centauri there.
Wow. I can't even imagine how someone could put something like this together. Yeah, and even conceive of the whole thing. Yeah. You know, well spaceflight anyway takes extreme precision. Yes, so there are so many things that have to work correctly anyway. So yeah, so yeah, pretty exciting project. They just announced it last week. Someone was commenting, this is old news. Well, I don't know. I guess it depends on how you experience time and what you figure to be old. But it's less than
a week old news. Actually maybe they thought it was the older stuff. But oh yeah, right, So it's a new project. He's going to spend His last project was to give money to SETI. He was giving one hundred million dollars to Sety. This project, he's also spending one hundred million dollars and this hundred million dollars is to build a prototype. Just to build a prototype, she's unbelievable. Wow, But he wants to do it,
so, which is great because you know, imagine it. How extraordinary is that to get some data and perhaps pictures from this you know, place that's like four light years away. This this neighboring star system. Amazing. Well, you know, someone like that is going to go down in history. I think that's probably what he's doing, preserving his name in history. Yeah, if he really does this, he pulls it off, so we'll see. I think he's gonna try so, and it doesn't seem like it's too
I think it's it's all doable. I mean, these are things that are possible. Whereas NASA sending people to Mars, which they feel they're going to do, they actually have some more difficult challenges for that. For instance, they don't know how they're gonna shield the spacecraft from radiation. So yeah, that's pretty important. Yeah, exactly. So it's it's all exciting stuff. Speaking of which, you know, this is really exciting regarding space stories.
This weekend they began to inflate, attach and inflate the module or at least attach. Maybe they didn't on the space station. Yeah, on the space station that was built by UFO and Busiest Robert Bigelow's company. You have Bigelow Aerospace, right, Wow, how cool is it? Exciting times? Exciting
times in space. I feel like it's like one of our UFO buddies has built this space capsule a couple because of course he works comb kelliher is his lead scientist for BASS, the UFO and Paranormal Exploring section, and so yeah, and he works on this too. So it's like, are some UFO buddies have built this device that's now going on the ISS? Amazing, isn't it? It is amazing times, my friend. Yes, and you have to have deep pockets to do what they're doing. And yeah, I'm glad
they have the interest. That's all I have to say. Mm. So there we go. There's UFO news for the week. You got anything else to add, that's good for me. All right, Well, thanks again for coming on and talking UFO news and we'll talk to you to Thank you very much. Always a pleasure. All right, We'll see talk to you later. Baldi. All right, okay, so let's go ahead and see what Chris Rutkowski has to say. I am very excited to welcome to the
show. Chris Ruthkowski. Hello, Hello over Alejandro. Thank you so much. I know you're super busy because you're this is your you're kind of famous right now. You're maybe saying more media attention than you ever have, not that you're a stranger to media attention, but you're getting a lot right now, which is wonderful. Yeah. I don't know whether I'm famous or infamous, but one of the two. And it seems definitely seems that the twenty
fifteenth survey has received more attention than other years. And I live in a couple of years where it's been protracted, but certainly nothing like this. Well, I'm excited to have you on the show. There's a paranormal sort of phenomena at that happens in my brain and maybe you can help me out with this. There are people such as yourself that I could swear you've been on the podcast before. But when I looked into it, I was looking at
I think pictures that I had used for you or something. You haven't been on the podcast before. I think I interviewed you for something else, but not the podcast. Yeah, we've met several times and we've talked, and I don't recall being on your podcast, unless, of course, you know, the government has erased that from our memories and all the record has gotten so, right, that's a good point. That could be what happened. Yeah, So, and then of course you were at the UFO Congress as
a speaker, which was awesome. It was wonderful to have you. So we'll get into this now. You're what's going on right now is this great survey that you put out, and that's why you're getting so much attention. But I want to hold off on that for a minute and ask you about some other things, such as, since it's the first time on podcasts and maybe some of the listeners are not as familiar with your work, let's start off with the beginning, what got you into UFOs and maybe tell us a
little bit about your background as well. Well. Sure, I'd been around the UFO scene and guphology for quite a long time. I actually met Alan Heineck early on in the nineteen seventies and sort of worked with the Center for UFO studied. But at the same time I met Stan Friedman for the first
time started working with him. It all started back in the mid nineteen seventies when there was actually quite a significant flap of UFOs going on across Canada, and about the same time, I was just at a university and in the astronomy department by proft was actually a little frustrated because these people were calling in all the time that they han't seen uf I was a team that UFOs were nonsense, and he was just getting so annoidy he just couldn't get his work
done. So I happened to be in his office when a call came in, and I said, well, you know what, why don't you just give me the phone calls whenever you get those cases, and I'll take them off your hands. That way you won't be bothered with figure. What a great way to suck up, I mean, assist my professor and in his
serious research. And so I started talking with the people who were calling in reporting UFOs, and I was astounded because these people were not as crazy or out of it that to the extent that I've been led to believe by my professors in austronomy. In fact, the people just simply wanted to know what it was that they were seeing or certainly some of them sounded easy enough to explain, like stars and planets and then a few other things. But some
of them were very puzzling. And I took it upon myself to go out and investigate and went throughout the country side with the people in their farms and homes, and I was fascinated by what it was that people were seeing and reporting. In many cases, I had no idea with these things where that people were seeing the disc shaped objects, strange jobs that goes flashing like could hovered and landing fields and took off again. And that type of thing is
very curious to me. And it was a matter of oh maybe several months later where I was asked by my professor to sort of recap what I had heard from people, what were people actually seeing. So I agreed to do a small departmental presentation. But word got around that somebody was going to talk about UFOs, and it got leaked out into the public and before I knew it, and when I gave my presentation, there were five hundred people in
the largest auditorium of university. Oh my god, and there are TV cameras everywhere. And the next thing I know, I was Canada's Fox Smoulders and it was quite significant. So it's been quite an interesting ride. And along the way, as I said, I've met some interesting people. I haven't been to a lot of conferences. It was like a pleasure, and thank you for inviting me to the Congress this past year. But I do a
lot of writing. I have ten books out, all of them available or not all of the most of them available on Amazon if people look them up. And I've been on a number of other programs. I was on the original Unsolved Mysteries Robert Stack and all that back back in those days. And I've been on a number of other programs on TV from NBC and A and E and so forth, just trying to talk about what it is that people really are seeing. And that's kind of where I come from, in the
sense that I'm curious as to what people really are seeing. And I know all the hyper bowl of op aliens coming here from whatever planet, and you know, they escaped from the Las Vegas underground bases to go to Las Vegas, and you know that type of thing. I hear that, But what are people really seeing? And what's the foundation upon which all of ethology is
based? And those are the actual reports. So in nineteen eighty nine, I had tried to actually figure out how many cases they were in Canada in a single year, and to do that I had to ask my colleagues across the country and we pulled our resources and data and I produced the first Canadian UFO sarty hearing a snap shot of what people at least in this country were
actually reporting. And over the years we've refined our weapons a little bit and we are getting, i think is a really interesting look at what people really are seeing because we get reports not only through UFO groups such as roof On and Peter Davenport's Sight other online sources, but also directly from witnesses. We actually do get cases directly from governmental officials through some of the agencies. We
do get reports from pilots and air traffic controllers. So we do have a really good idea what it is that that people are seeing, at least in Canada. And the numbers are actually quite interesting, and are your numbers so much different than us numbers? Typically we're a factor of ken smaller than the United States, which actually does work very well because we've determined that it seems that the number of UFO reports in a Canadian province we prevented the state is
related to the population. In otherwan, there's more people around to see something other than we get more reports, and so the numbers are consistent. The trouble is we don't really have much in the way of comparison because moufunds database is sort of onto itself, and in fact they only really got going on their their case management system over in an intense way over the past ten years, so we existed long before them. This is our twenty seventh year producing
the UFO survey. This year, in fact, we're up to seventeen thousand UFO reports on file, which actually beats Blue Book, which is quite interesting. But we do find that the numbers are related to population in terms of how many there are, but there are variations in different areas of the country.
We have data on whether there are more objects of a certain color versus others, like orange is more common than green, and we know that there are times of day when objects are seen more commonly and what shapes are more and so we're getting interesting data on the characteristics of the sightings themselves, which
is giving some insight into what people really are experiencing. M Yeah, and you also make that data available as far as the numbers and everything, so people can even crunch their own numbers right absolutely, and we've made it available in a couple of different ways, not only in PDFs but also the raw data Excel files. Although I think we're changing that over I think we are
twenty fifteen. Data is also available on PDF, but you can still grab it live up particular regions and do some crunching, and of course the serious researchers, we do make some of the data available upon request, so it's
actually searchable that way. One of these days we are actually working the fellow who's working on this with me in terms of the data things Jeff different, and we're working now to leave all of our data online so in the some time in the future it will be possible for any want to look up all the data for the past twenty five or so years. So getting into the shapes and the sizes and the colors. You said orange is the most popular
color. Yes, yeah, it's still the most popular, although you know there are many white white objects seen green offamine, fireball, so they can actually lead some insight into what is is actually being observed by the witness. The shapes are quite interesting because the classic flying saucer has long disappeared almost from
UFO data. Triangles are very popular for quite a few years, and it seems the most popular shape right now is round er spherical, so that it's an interesting way that even during the short history, relatively short history of the time has been during the study, the characteristics of UFOs themselves have changed, which to me suggests you're a real phenomenon because it's not something static, it's not something that's that's stagnant and and uh that that that just sort of exists
without any context. These are things that that people are actually observing that seem to have different characteristics depending on the time of day, the year, the movement, that type of thing. And it's quite interesting to look at the data in a broader context. So there's not just one particular case that it's it's representative of one hundreds upon hundreds of cases. As far as orange orange balls of light, which seems like, you know, there's a there's an
increase of that in Canada. There's also in the last few years been an increase. It was getting more attention I think last year or maybe uh yeah, last year about orange orbs in the UK. It's been getting attention here. A lot of the suspicion in the UK was that this was due to an increase in the use of Chinese lanterns. Do you feel that's the case. Yeah, the matter of fact, we do know that is the case
many times here in Canada. In fact, that we noticed a sharp, sharp uptick in the summer is especially and in the fall of orange lights moving in the sky, especially in groups of you know, three four ten, that type of thing, and we've been able to track down quite a few of them to releases of Chinese lanterns during particular festivals or ceremonies, weddings and so forth. You know, the that the movie Tangled seem to make it
all very attractive of people to send out Chinese lanterns. So that's done, and we actually have found people who have been able to trace back some of the lights that we're seeing to people releasing things from field, so we suspect that's a big part of it. Certainly not all of the cases are ascribable to those those types of explanations, but you know, I think we have
to take those into account, and we do. In fact, we find that only about twelve percent of the reports received last year are listed as unexplained, and even after we look at the those twelve percent, we can little that down a little bit to about two or three or four percent of what we call the high quality of knowns, where the witnesses have cooperated, we have data, We've looked at flight plans, we've looked at what else is
in the star in the sky and so forth. But even when you're only looking at a few percent, when you're looking at a database of seventeen thousand cases, you're still looking at a significant number of cases that are levy shaking your head and that two or three percent, what does that boil down to you, Like, how many you know highly unusual cases do you feel that you have in your records? Well, for example, in twenty fifteen,
that's two or three dozen cases, Which is that bad? That so that you know it gives us a good chance to try and figure out you know
that they are are unusual in some particular way. Jeff Is attempted to look at just the unknowns with regard to the rest of the cases, and they do tend to have a lot of similar characteristics, again suggesting that part of the same phenomenon that unknowns are our UFO cases that simply are better observed than others in some cases, So there could be a lot of things going on that are a lot of us to say that there is a real phenomenon that
science should be taking a look at. Yeah, the local move on here in Arizona has I think one of the best directors of investigations in the country and he Dennis Bryce. Our Mouth is his name. He has he does a great job identifying sightings and they typically have you know, their unknowns are
only around four percent. And I know that frustrates a lot of people, but for me, that's really exciting because that does boil down to, similar to you, you know, at least maybe a dozen sightings that they have thoroughly examined it and cannot find an answer for. And for me, that's pretty exciting. I know that there's been you know, a lot of work done to try to identify those things, honest, you know, work to get that done, and they haven't been able to do so. Yeah.
And the other problem is, and this is a prevalent throughout eupology, not just in Canada, but it's really appalling for an investigative standpoint, how few cases are really thoroughly investigated now in Canada. I'm going to say that we have a reason for that because we have far fewer investigators and a lot more geography in the sense that here in Manitoba there's myself and a few of my colleagues doing the work, Jeff Dickman and a few others, But in terms
of investigations is one. In fact, we only had a field investigator from Yufon startup this past year, and he's certainly not run off his feet. But in Saskatchewan, the neighboring province, there are no investigators whatsoever. So if there was a sighting, you know, you know, in Saskatchewan somewhere,
I'm not sure who would investigator. We certainly would hear about it, why email or phone calls or through media, but to investigate, And just to give you a sense, where I am sitting right now speaking with you in Winnipeg, the capital city in Saskatchewan. Just the next neighboring province over is Regina, and it's about an eight hour drive one way, so just imagine, if you know, and that's you know, the capital city, and of course Saskatchewan is quite large, and to drive into the far north
of Saskatchewan would easily be twenty hours drive one way. So sometimes very impractical to investigate cases like that, and we just simply don't know the resources to do everything. So it's quite surprising we have as good data as we do. Now, what's curious is you mentioned the prevalence of triangular aircraft sidings or UFOs, and that's always fascinating to me. I've had people on to discuss
it. Last week, I had a gentleman on to discuss it, and he feels he had his own incredible sighting and he was certain that what he saw was probably man made. But others don't feel that way and have also done, you know, extensive research. So it's it's a confusing thing. Although it's amazing. I mean, some of the most amazing sightings are these alleged triangular craft. What are your feelings on those sightings? Do you do?
You say they've increased out there? Have you all as Canada had its triangular UFO flap or did those only start in the last couple of decades or what do you make of that phenomena. Well, we certainly do get a lot of reports of triangular formations of lights. The actual physical objects are, as you know, very rarely seen. It's it's very rare for something to see an actual physical triangle itself. Usually we get the reports of triangular formations
of lights and the inference is that if they're on a triangular object. And to me that's I find that suspicious. Not in the sense I don't believe the witnesses, but it's just to me, it's more likely that there are three separate lights or objects that just coincidentally be a triangle. Of course,
three objects from a triangle exactly, that's not particularly unusual. So I think we're actually probably seeing When we hear so many reports of triangles, I think the problem maybe in the witnesses descriptions, because they're often a little bit too vague and not as well supported. For example, I often hear a witness tell me that what they saw was round, Well, what does that mean
exactly? Are you talking like a frisbee? Are you talking sphiracle? And even with uses descriptions of how far away things are very common to have a witness say that this thing is one or two or three miles away. Well, if the object, in their opinion, was the size of a basketball, and I actually have got this, there was somebody who was very sincere. That's the object they had witnessed was an orange light the size of a basketball two miles away. Well, in reality, you couldn't see an object
to fighting about football two miles away. So and this is why it's so important for investigators to often sit with the witness and have humor her, you know, really point out where things where, try and get additional witnesses draw things. And it's a very very protracted exercise and a lot of darn hard work. And I don't blame people for all wanting to do it, but
it does cause problems. And you know, when we're trying to get data to do analysis on, these are actually some of the issues we'd have to deal with. Having been a filled investigator for several years, I haven't done of course, I talked to a lot of people up but I haven't done the filled work like I used to. But when I did, one of the issues, you know, I found was just like you talked about. They would often say round when they meant a point of light, and that's
a big difference. Absolutely. In fact, that's so wonderful that we sit with her. There's a couple of other people, Ashley Kirchier and Kelly Smith, who do a lot of our data entering. And when you're looking through a report and somebody says, well, what I saw was a series of orbs. Well, to me, an orb is a spherical ball like a basketball, I suppose, and what they had actually seen were lights in the sky, which are points of light that we're moving in the sky, But
the mind does interpret that as being some sort of sphere. And because orbs are so so much in the mind of people in the UFO field now, it's often just simply assumed that a distant light in the sky is actually some sort of spherical orb and the two are not consistent. I agree. It's even the terminology when we're doing the analysis causes issues. So it's no wonder that even something as intrinsically simple as data analysis of UFO reports can get very,
very complicated. In this report, are there any cases that stand out to you, maybe a couple that you thought were particularly spectacular interesting? Well, to me, the most one of the most interesting came from northern Quebec.
A truck driver was driving last fall and he said that as he was driving along an isolated part of the road, he saw a light come up behind him, a blue light, and he thought it as a semi trying to wanted to pass, so he pulled over slightly to the side of the road and wouldn't you know it, this light moved as if to pass, but then when I got level with his truck, the light just simply disappeared, so straight out of close encounters the moon. So some of those cases
are very, very intriguing. And have you had your own sighting? No, I've never seen anything, you know. I've been out with a lot of them viduals to some of the hotspots. I've traveled across Canada to places where the UFOs are frequently seen, and nothing has ever manifested that I just
couldn't explain. We've we've seen lights at the end of the road. I'm sure your listeners will be familiar with with that term, where you're looking down an isolated road and a light appears on a little way in the distance that moves from side to side and sometimes comes towards you and sometimes moves away. And cars have been known to chase such lights at high speeds if the lights continue to zip away. So I've been to some areas to see those,
but they haven't really struck me as being all that unusual. So mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, so this report, I mean, you've been really busy, So again, thank you for making the time because like even today you've been doing interviews. I think you said you did one with the Yeahoo you were on you know, CTV did a great report, uh in an interview with you, and and I think I've seen CNA the even I've seen it all over the place NBC. Uh, your report has really taken the
media by storm. Uh. Why do you think that is that this year this report has gotten so big, well here in Canada, and I think the effect is the same in the United States. There's a rule in journalism called anything but the election, and so the media are a little a little tired of doing nothing but political story. So they're looking for something a little
bit unusual. That's certainly one factor. The other thing is that we're not uh, really going out and talking in terms of you know, aliens visiting us and giving us telepathic information and uh, you know that type of thing. We're looking at the at the UFO phenomenon from the room scientific standpoint, and I think there's a hunger for that because there's so much sensational stuff out
there. Even some of the TV shows are really over the top in terms of you know, g Wouds and you are the aliens trying to communicate with us? But you know, I think people are looking for the serious information. What it is that people really are seeing, the average person seeing what
are the characteristics of the lights? And because it's such a common denominator, and polls have shown that about ten percent of the North American population believe they've seen UFOs, it strikes accord with so many people that they can relate to. You know, close encounters are really a very small fraction of the of the caseload. Most people simply see lights in the sky that they can't explain.
And I think the greater proportion of the viewership and leadership of the of the media follow that category that they're simply see a few things that don't seem
to be stars and planes and satellites. And it relates to the average person because those things are fairly common, and almost everybody has a friend or an uncle or an aunt or somebody who they drive to work with who's seems something mm hmm, yeah, well I have a similar perspective, of course, I mean to document the sightings in what's going on, and that's where my passion lies as well, because it feels like and you know, i'd like
to hear what you think. When people get distracted away from that, then they and you hear this a lot. I'm so bored with the nuts and bolts. I want to see what they're saying, you know, what they're doing and what they're up to. But I feel that the nuts and bolts, at least at tracking the data is really important because yeah, that's exactly right, that it is important because this is the foundation upon which all the
speculation is based. So all the discussion about what planet they're from and what the message is and uh, you know, when they're green or blue or tall, white or whatever, all of that is speculation without without any backing up of proof. And what the whole you know, constituent of of uphology is is based on these these reports from the average person. And admittedly some of the cases are quite remarkable, but these are this is what really is
being seen. So when you strip away all the other stuff, we know that these cases are real, we can document them, we know who said them, we know where they were located, and so forth. This is what people really are seeing. Now, let's try to build on this basis rather than to sort of go off far afield and try to come back and see if it fits in with the data from the data outward rather than from
outside into the data. So you feel it seems that the data does, however, represent or makes an argument that this is a true phenomena, that all of these things being seen we don't have necessarily explanations for. Yeah.
In fact, what we say is that there doesn't seem to be an easier simple explanation in the twelve percent, and then when we dig a little deeper into the one or two or three percent, there doesn't seem to be a more elaborate explanation for some of these cases, although that doesn't mean they can't
be explained if we have a little more information. Having said that, I think what we can say is if there isn't a real physical phenomenon called UFOs and whatever that means, whether we're talking aliens or military tests or some sort of ball lightning or whatever, that at the very least there is a psychological or sociological phenomenon called phenomenon called UFOs, And by that I mean, you know, psychologically and sociologically, maybe there's a need for people to interpret things
in the sky. There's things that they don't understand in this way. Perhaps we are looking for salvation because our lives are so messed up here. The planet is polluted, and we're on the Vergin the Queer War, and the economy is going down the tubes. We're looking for someone to solve this mess for us. And this is I think why people turn to contact ease and they're the spiritual aspects of euthology, because they're looking for someone to save them
from whatever is going on here on Earth. And that may contribute to the UFO phenomenon in some way. And in either case, whether it's physical or something from the behavioral and that you personal sciences, humanistic sciences, science should be taking a look at the UFO phenomenon more. You know. The last time that there was a study like this is, of course, the book
and Condom back in I say they finished in nineteen seventy. Since then, science has been very reluctant to look into the UFO phenomenon, although there have been a few people who've been publishing papers and scientific journals, peer review journals from time to time. I actually have two or three papers like that myself, and I think it's important to try and get the scientific community to take a more serious look at the very least there's some decent PhD thesis that are
waiting to be written on USFOS from whatever angle. Yeah, you know, Jackovla made that argument before that, and I think it was even something he said at the UN when they were arguing for studies to be opened up, was that if the government doesn't officially look into this topic, uh and give you know, their findings, then people are just going to speculate and build
all of these wild assumptions because they're not going to have any guidance. And and what he predicted has become true absolutely, and I have to agree with him that the I think because the sign of the community is shied away, it's the vacuum has been filled by people who are speculating. People who are less qualified than than some that are you know, have a particular acts to grind in some cases, and they're making naims for themselves, getting a little
more attention than they deserve. And yet you know, there's no question that I think the public has to be satiated that you know, people want to know, they're curious. It's explained in some way why the media attention is so so great on the Canadian ufoster they give people are curious through the general public does want to have some information and they're a little tired of hearing the stories. They want to know what's really going on and looking at the hard
data at least one way of reaching that. So and going further, I guess starting to get into your own speculation. Do you feel that from what you've looked at in your research that it is possible that intelligent extraterrestrial civilization is getting a visiting. Do you think it's it's that's definitely happening. What is happening? Or is it possible? There's no question it's possible, and I have to say anything as possible with my astronomy background. You know, most
of my colleagues agree that they probably is life out there somewhere. And yet we all know that the distance problem and how long it we take to travel and so forth makes it, you know, impossible, and even in the most elaborate speculation. I know Stephen Hawking just this past week is proposing close to light speed travel between stars using light fills. That's just to the mirrort
start. So I know there's some speculation there, but in terms of you know, the star trek star wars kind of travel between stars, we have really no idea how to do that, however, and I make this point whenever I'm speaking to students or in colleges that you know, the soulfone that I'm speaking to you on right now would have been completely unheard of as recently as fifty years ago, and I cannot speculate what I will be talking to
you on or via fifty years from now, because the technology is advancing so
much. Well, there are stars relatively near our own Sun and have planets around them that may have planets that are, you know, a little bit older than our Earth, not just one hundred years, not just a thousand years, but tens of thousands or one hundreds of thousands of years older, And if civilizations arose on those planets, it's possible that technological civilization might have figured out a way not to break the laws of physics and you know,
just pop here and there using some fuel that we haven't discovered, but maybe bending the laws of physics or using them in the ways we simply haven't even dreamt of yet, so that the interstellar travel could be possible in the future. And if somebody out there has figured that out, maybe, just maybe they might have found something of interest here in this little pale blue dot, as Carl Sagan used to describe it, in this backwater arm of the Key
Way galaxy. Maybe, but it's wonderful to speculate. And we're currently living in the Stephen Spielberg generation or post Steven Steelberg generation in some ways that we take it for granted that aliens are here and they're possible, and it's travel It's possible to travel between the stars very easily. I mean there's even a
movie in theaters right now about an alien battle like Batman. So you know, whether the aliens are here or not, we sort of take it for granted, but maybe, And I use this as a way of introducing science to kids. You know, what would an alien look like? How do you travel between the stars, how do rockets work? How would a flying saucer fly if one really existed. It's the way of getting people thinking about science. And what a better way than to use to use UFOs as a
way of thinking about science. When I interview people who who write movies or make movies, I like to ask about this seeming dichotomy that there is. Like you said, when it comes to entertainment, it's almost like a given that we will meet aliens or they're out there, and almost every movie about the future somehow aliens are involved. Star Trek, star Wars, all of that sort of thing, although started Wars was a long long time ago, right, yeah, in a galaxy far far away, and yeah, far
far away. But at the same time, people are hesitant to say or even go on the record, less so these days, but more so even ten twenty years ago, that aliens most likely exist. So it seems like this dichotomy even though they're totally willing to feel like, oh, yeah, you know, aliens, when we look at the future, aliens will be involved, but if you ask right now, there's still hesitant to say it's a likely possibility. Well yeah, And especially science fiction authors who have been
very reluctant to embrace the UFO theme as real. I mean, as amovin Clark both disc UFOs quite significantly. A lot of science fiction authors won't even
talk about them because they find it so ridiculous. And these are the people who talk about aliens all the time, which is actually quite interesting, and I had my own personal experience where back in I'll go back to the seventies again, when I was really getting into UFO, they wanted to read as much as I could on the subject, and there I had found a copy of an old pulp magazine called Flying Saucers from Other Worlds, which was which
was originally a science fiction pulp called Other Worlds. And then got some Flying Saucer content through the Shaver Mystery and whatever and that another podcast. But I was trying to get more copies of this, and in the back of this issue of this pulp magazine from the fifties was the address of a fellow who was running a science fiction society in my own city back in the fifties. So I thought, well, low, if I contact him and he's still
around, maybe he'll have some copies. So I contacted him. Not only did he have extra copies, he said the science fiction society was still meeting in his home. So I went to the next meeting and I was surrounded by people who were really into science fiction, like this before Star Trek really got taken off, but it was the people who are really super into science fiction. They knew all the authors, and some of them had met them
personally. One of the people who actually in first found them from the thirties. It was really quite fascinating, and they were a little hostile to the unfil phenomenon. And when I was introduced as being the UFO guy, one of the spokespersons said, well, you know, we're not into that. We're not into that UFO stuff because we're into science fiction and everybody knows who's that. UFOs are nothing more than oh wait, yeah, you know what you can say, ye, sit down, we'll talk. Yeah, just
a strange disconnect, the strange disconnect. So once they realize that UFOs were in fact science fiction and their view, I was fine to talk with the group and then see what their heads were at. So it's been an interesting ride, pretty strange. So what do you say, because I'm sure you
get this, because we get this all the time. And when people come to you and are like, you know, well, I'm talking to the aliens, or I know people who are talking to the aliens, or you know this person or this person who's popular out there speaking or whatever who say they're talking to the aliens. Why are you worrying about the sightings when we can hear what the aliens are saying. What do you tell those people?
Well, you know, there's no question that eupology is a signal forget part faith that you know, their belief is a very significant part of eupology. And you know, if someone wants to say that they are in contact with aliens and they speak to them every Sunday and they give them revelations, you know, that's cool. If that's if that's you know, what what you believe, I'm not gonna miss you because I are. There would be no way for me to change your mind anyways. Is it possible that people are
really in communication with alien visible? It's possible, but I don't see the evidence. And what I usually pursue people who say they're in contact with aliens and I ask them, or can you be a little more descriptive about, you know, have them channel, you know, instructions on how to build a you know, a transporter, or can you have an at least you know, appear tomorrow afternoon in the sky so that I can take a photo of them and all that sort of stuff. And it's usually hyperbole of well,
humans aren't ready, and that's not how they work. And you know, I've studied the UFO literature for a lot longer than most people have been around studying it, and I looked at the contact the literature, and you know, it has done a lot better. In the fifties, give me Aura Rains and Howard Nner and even Georgia Damski. You had some wonderful stories
of encounters with aliens. And if you read what they're saying or what they said back in the nineteen fifties, it's almost word for word what people are saying now about the aliens. So it's really nothing new. Certainly things haven't advanced, and in terms of humans aren't being ready for the message or certain people are selected. And if I don't believe that I'm not going to see the aliens, well you know a lot off that's what it takes to see
the aliens. Then you know, maybe maybe give me the other aliens instead. Maybe they give the aliens from from Greater articular instead of Beta fictoris. Right, yeah, I hear you. I mean the latest message I got that was similar to that, and I hadn't responded. Maybe if that person's listening, then they'll hear my answer. But and they said, the aliens told them that we need to get the message out, we need to quit trashing our planet and we need to take care of our planet as soon as
possible, or we're going to destroy ourselves. And it's like, well, that's really nothing new. No, if you read the news, people who don't believe in aliens at all are saying the same thing all the time. So how does that really add to any conversation or really, we know that we already know that maybe we're talking about the interstellar Green Peace Voyagers or something
I don't know, right, And they're just one more group. So add them to the list of organizations or people out there who are advocating us taking better care of our planet. Yeah, it's a long list. So like you, I mean, I'm open to the idea that it's it's possible, but you know, the messages are all very new age and you have you know, deep Pak Chopra is telling us the same stuff and he's not an alien, So it really doesn't not that we not that we know as far
as we know exactly he may be. But among there there's just lots of people or we also have our own instincts that tell as something similar. So yeah, so like you said, and it even goes back further to the contactes who've been saying this for a very long time. But it hasn't necessarily, at least as far as we know, changed, you know, how we live. I agree, And I mean you can see that that you know, over the past, you know how many years as you followed you
want to go back, nothing's really changed. But I would disagree. I think this phenomenon it self is evolved. Close encounters are almost I don't know, well, close encounters of the second kind are almost non existent. So why is that? I mean, like the real exciting up close to UFOs, the ones that leave marks on the ground and things like that. I mean, there was a time, but Tied Phillips is doing a fantastic job
document in physical traces. The physical traces are almost vanished completely from eucology. I don't even think we've got one out of the twelve hundred and something last year in Canada at all. And why is that? Because in the seventies and eighties they were among the most common types of UFOs. The shapes have changed, people, you know, we now have images of you know, we have the capability of taking videos and photographs, you know, not necessarily
good ones, but we have the capability. So so much has changed, and you know the fact that we you know, we just looked at images from Pluto just a matter of months ago, and we talked about Stephen Hockey wanting to send robots to Alfice or talks to US centure. Y. I mean, we're living in a very exciting age and I think the notion that we're not alone is going to become more and more important because we do have this exploration instinct. We do want to find out, we do want to
know if we are alone and give some meaning to our lives. So I think talking about UFOs not only is a good way to bring some science into our lives, but bring some meeting into our lives as well. Now, before I let you go, I want to ask you about something you had mentioned, and I want to talk about the Canadian government and UFOs. Now, their program, or at least their interest kind of paralleled the US. And when the US got out of the business, they pretty much got out
of the business, but at least they did. I haven't looked at it in maybe a year or two. They had some a great website with their official documents and things like their investigation like into Shape Harbor or some other significant UFO cases. Is that still up and I mean that was pretty cool sight Well. Yeah. Matter of fact, the Canadian government, you know,
had its own parallel version of Blue Book. They worked in cooperation. There's Project Magnet and Project Second Story. And one thing that is quite different is that blue Book officially edited in the seventies and Condon the the court was of
the sixteen ninety seventy. They really don't know much beyond that for the United States, But in Canada things happened a little bit differently because the Canadian equivalent of the Smithsonian, which is called the National Research Council of Canada, was studying meteors and meteorites and they wanted to actually find a landed metea orite maybe still steaming from zipping through the atmosphere, and they needed a way of finding
out where these things were people who had seen them audience track come down. So they enlisted the RCNT Europead amount of Police to investigate reports of lights in the sky. So in fact, the Orkney amount of Police were investigating UFOs on behalf of the National Research Council, and these reports were routinely filed in the archives of Canada and they continued to do that right up until nineteen ninety five. So we actually have records beyond Blue Book in Canada of official investigations
into UFOs up until nineteen ninety five. When it turns out at the office that was studying meteoritics in the National Research Council was closed because of the interest was sort of shifted to the Canada Armen supplying American fatellites with arms and things like that. But so that finished in nineteen ninety five, but reports of
UFOs and objects in the sky being seen continued to come in. And I was approached in the nineteen nineties by somebody at the National Research Council because I was in astronomy and I was at some meetings in Ottawa, and they asked me if I had any thoughts on what to do with the reports. I said, well, you can always send them to me. I'll look at them, and by goll if it wasn't a repeat of what happened when I was in first year astronomy and university. Suddenly, in the year two thousand,
I started receiving official reports of UFOs. Wow. And that continues to this day and they are routinely included in the Canadian UFO Survey every year. So in effect, we do have you know, there was no cessation, you know that includes a disclosure. There never was the problem of disclosure in Canada. We have a continuous record of all the reports, some of which up until about I think the latest one that's in the reports online at least
are from the sometime in the eighties. But if you can actually go to the National Archives of Canada, they're actually all there for anyone to look at. So that's very different from the United States. Wow, that's great. And so now you received the reports that the RCMP received, and in fact
the RCMP aren't. Yeah, they're not doing it anymore, although admittedly the RCMP is still as reports from time to time, but they go into their own separate files, not necessarily in the National archives, in the National Research Council. And then did you do you work with other government agencies that send you reports. I've only received reports from Transport Canada, the RCMP, and
the Canadian Forces. That's great, and they all seem pretty open. Yeah, I mean, I don't have any illusions that that I'm getting all of them. You know, I suspect that I'm only getting a small perhaps a small fraction, I just you know, occasional ones. But we certainly do get there the pilot reports, reports from air traffic controllers and from some forces personnel from Canadian Armed Forces bases, so we do get some good representative samples
of not just civilian but also official sources of UFOs. Wow. Great, Yeah, reminds me of a story John Greenwald tells of trying to get some Nora at UFOUH information and he couldn't, But then he called up the Canadian arm and they were like, yeah, no problem, and they sent him tons of files. Yeah, I mean Dora. His name is all over some of the reports that we get up here, so you know, it's
it's an interesting, uh, it's an interesting way to get data. Curiously enough, though, of course, the reports are both the same as anything you get from civilian researchers, you know, lights in the sky that could be anything, and the majority of them aren't very interesting at all. So in many cases, what we're looking at as a parallel of the Ministry of
Defense reports that that we're being obtained through our friends in England. But you know, you get these thousands upon thousands of files of UFOs, but the vast majority of them aren't very interesting at all. Well, thank you so much for being on right now. If you google Canada UFOs, you're going
to get pictures and videos of Chris talking about him. You are Canada UFOs And if you want to look at the survey itself, you go to survey dot so, Survey dot Canadian UFO report dot com and that takes you to the web page where all the links are to the survey is going back quite sometime. That's great. So you are kind of the representative of UFOs in Canada's and I can't think of a better person to be the representative for that
because of your very grounded way of looking at this topic. I wish people, you know, that had had similar ideas when they thought of ufology when it comes to the US. But there's so many characters involved, some of them less discerning. I'm still a character. Oh, there's no doubt about that. We didn't get to get into. If people go see Chris's Facebook, you're going to see plenty of jokes and confidence, which is also fun. But thank you so much for being on the show, and congratulations on
all the media attention that you're getting. It. It's positive and it's putting this whole phenomenon. I think for the most part, I haven't one read one story that's really making fun of the topic. There was there, I think somebody was saying they've been monitoring these things a little closer than me. That there was one redio announcer who was making a lot of fun of it.
But you know that it comes with the territory. Yeah, yeah, and you probably like me, even when you talked to a radio an answer, it seems radio answers are more likely to have fun. It's fun to have fun along with him. Really well, absolutely, and this time you know it's because the Canada and the United States have some elections going on.
What I'd like to say, and this is an absolutely true observation that I think we definitely have the proof that the aliens have visited Earth and taken over the bodies and lines of certain people here on this planet, because how else can you explain politicians. M That's a very good point. And on that note, in this election season, we'll leave it at that. Thank you so much. Thank you all right, thank you so much to Chris Rukowski
for being on the show. Really interesting stuff. I think he does some great work. We were so happy to have him at the UFO Congress this last year or this year, just if you months ago. He did a great talk. And by the way, you can get that talk on DVD by going to our website. You can go to the store and find that. Also, we do have a video portal, so streaming video service for less than a price of a DVD. You can go subscribe to this video
portal and have access to all of the lectures. So we don't have all of the twenty six twenty sixteen UFO Congress lectures on that streaming service yet, however we will soon, like within the next couple of weeks, and in fact, we have most of them up already. We have a lot from twenty fifteen, and then we have all of them from some of the other conferences like twenty ten, twenty eleven, so we have twenty. We have tons and tons of lectures available on this streaming service. So I would highly
commenda it's cheaper than Netflix. It's it's a good deal. You can go on subscribe and then have access to tons and tons of lectures. We've got exclusive lectures that you know, no one's ever had before. Bob Lazaar, for God's sakes. We've got Jacques Vallet. We have you know, Congressman Cook, the congressman from Utah who was at the citizen hearing for Disclosure,
who was convinced that UFOs are a real phenomena. So he talks about why he believes that we have officials from France and from Chile and all over the place. Just some incredible lectures. So you've got to check that out. You can find it all at open Minds dot tv. By the way, you can find Chris's stuff at UFO rum dot blogspot dot com. UFO Rum apparently Chris likes rum. No, I'm kidding. I think it's probably U
forum is uh. Actually the it's probably an accurate acronym. I mean, but U f O r U M dot blogspot dot com is a U r L, so it's easy to remember UFO rum. Uh. It's called ufology research. You can also look up Chris Grukowski ufology research and you'll find it. But yeah, he's got a lot of info there. You can find the Canadian Report there as well. But yeah, like I said, he's
all over the media, so he it's funny. He's all o our Facebook too, so you can find him on our Facebook Open minds UFO News the group making comments and adding stuff. And it's kind of funny talking to him because about these UFO cases, because he's so serious about his work, whereas he's just kind of a goofy guy overall. He likes making jokes and having
fun, just a real cool guy. I really like Chris Rukowski. In fact, his talk at the Symposed or at the UFO Congress was Canadian UFOs A. So he does say A. It's not a you know, just a mythology or just a legend that Canadians say A. They say it often. In fact, this reminds me of a story that I'm going to share
with you. I remember getting a call from like a telemarketer or something like that, or maybe I was calling customer service, it's probably more likely, and the guy kept saying A. So I said, are you from Canada? And he said yeah, how did you know? And I said, well, you've said A several times and he said, really I did,
And I said yeah, you've said at least three or four times. He's like, I've tried, like he's consciously tries not to say A. And he actually thought he had kicked the habit of saying A. And I unfortunately let them know that, you know, you got some work to do. You're still saying A. So but Canadians are great, They're some of that. They're known for being nice people, so that's not a bad reputation to have. So another show in the can I hope you enjoyed yourself. I
certainly did, as I always do. Thank you so much to Caleb Hanks for the opening and close music. Thank you to Martin Willis for talking to us about UFO News and joining us for that section. That's always a lot of fun. Be sure to check out Openminds dot tv for all of the news that we talked about and more. Of course, we add UFO news there daily. Also, you can find our UFO Report, which is our
YouTube video report that we do weekly. We do have a new one up that we just posted on Friday about the FAA Report where you can see some pictures and maps and stuff like that on the video, so check that out. We do have some other UFO cases on there. We'll have a new one coming up this Friday. And we always have some UFO videos on YouTube,
so that's something new that we're doing. We're posting these little vignettes, these little videos on some of the archive photos that we have in our archives, and these are some great cases. These are cases from before photoshop even existed that are really unexplainable. Some of them are very strange, and they're from all over the world, so you've got to check those out. You can find them on our YouTube, or you can find all of this at
open mindset TV or in our Open Minds email newsletter. So if you're not subscribed to our email newsletter, you need to do that. You can go to our web page open mindsat TV. On the upper right, you're going
to see a blue box. It's unmistakable that says email newsletter and you can just add your email address to that and that way, even if you forget your life gets busy and you don't have time to check our website or the radio show or any of this, you'll get an email that reminds you, hey, here's some of the cool stuff, some of the cool stories and cool interviews. That we've done in the last couple of weeks. So it
helps keep you up to date because I know how it is. I get really busy and sometimes just life runs away with you and your time seems to go. So at least you'll still get that hit of what's going on in the UFO world. Thank you all so much for joining us. I have some great interviews lined up for the next couple of weeks, so be sure to join us. It's going to be a lot of fun. In fact, we've got coming up Robert Hastings. He studies UFOs and nukes and he
has a new documentary out. We're going to be writing about this next week and talking to him about this because this is really important and great stuff. We've got Rich Hoffman, the director for Alabama moof on. He also works on a lot of stuff like the Homeland Security video, a lot of really important stuff, so we'll be talking to him, and we'll be talking to some people about abduction research. A PhD who you know, believes there's something
to this phenomena is working with a group to investigate. So we've got a lot of really cool stuff coming up, so stay tuned. But I want to thank the most. I want to thank you all for listening. Thank you so much for listening. It's wonderful to have you here every week, and we will talk to you soon. Audio Smooth Chachos, your emotionless sound glass