Welcome to Open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for nearly a decade and has logged hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome.
This is open Minds Radio. We are your UFO news authority. Before we get to some UFO news in the headlines, I want to talk about our guests tonight. I'm really excited about our guests. First of all, I should say Happy Memorial Day. Hopefully you're all having a wonderful holiday. Jason and I, of course, are working hard to get you the information, so we took this time, even though we could have had the day off, to make sure that you get informed, and so did our guests Chris
Brian. I'm very excited about this one because he investigates the San Luis Valley in Colorado, a very mysterious area where there's all types of phenomena going on, including UFOs. It's where cattle mutilations began and where most have occurred, right there in the area and across it actually spans a little bit the border to New Mexico, and in that area is where all these cattle mutilations happen. So mister O'Brien here has investigated all of this strangeness and some of the
Native American lore in the area. So we're going to be talking to him about all of this, and in fact, i'll share this later on. My family has their own mysterious history in the valley. Because my family's from the valley. We've been in Colorado thousands of years until just a few years ago when I moved out here, so my family stretches back in that area for a long long time. You have at least one highly mysterious story from
my family. But let us get in to the news. When you go to Openminds dot tv, you can always see the latest UFO headlines, and we have that on the front page. And these are headlines from conventional news all around the world. Also, if you go there right now and click on the radio tab, you can watch us live in the studio via our live video stream. That's something that Jason sets up for us, and Jason McClellan is our UFO news correspondent. Jason, you got some news for us.
Hialejondro Yo, Hello Phoenix in the Hello world. This is your Open Minds news brief for a Monday, May thirty first, twenty ten. Chinese lanterns are commonly mistaken for UFOs. A woman in the UK observed orange lights in the skylast Saturday night that could have been Chinese lanterns, but the behavior she witness seems a little strange for Chinese lanterns. She described the lights is
moving, but not drifting, like they were moving with a purpose. She observed the lights forming a triangle, then at once the lights went off. There have been other reports in the area of orange lights moving against the wind, so a UFO research group is contacting the Coastguard to ascertain the wind's direction on the night of the woman's sighting to see if perhaps what she saw those lights were also moving against the wind. Against the wind. All right,
calm down, but that is odd, you know. It doesn't seem like behavior of a Chinese lantern to be able to number one move against the wind. Number two form a distinct pattern and then have all the lights go out at the same time. Yeah. In two thousand and nine, British Defense reported they had gotten a lot of sightings of orange lights. When we talked to Nick Pope, who investigated UFOs for the Ministry of Defense in the UK,
he said, it's probably because the popularity of these Chinese lanterns. So you see a lot in the news people blowing off to Chinese lanterns, But now a lot of these witnesses are matching up what they're saying too Chinese lanterns, and a lot of these things are doing things that these lanterns wouldn't. So maybe there's just an increase in these orange orbs being cited as separate from the Chinese lantern lanterns, or maybe more people are buying Chinese lanterns. That
could be true to Jason, but we don't know. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be a downer, but that was a bit of a downer in this kind of moment. Well, let's go. Let's go on to another story, an update to a story we've covered for quite a while and we continue getting updates on, and that is the Gary McKinnon case and Nick Clegg, UK's new deputy Prime Minister, has admitted that his government may be powerless to prevent the extradition of Gary McKinnon to the United States.
This news surprises many of McKinnon's supporters because rumors were just swirling last week saying McKinnon would almost certainly being a denied extradition to the United States. Yeah, it's too bad. The new administration said they were going to keep it from happening, and they used it politically saying, oh, this current administration, what a bunch of jerks. They're gonna export this poor hacker guy. And then as soon as they get in office, oh, sorry, we can't
do anything about it. So Gary McKinnon looks like he's going to be coming to the States and going to be tried for hacking in and getting UFO information. So we'll see if this creates a big media friends. Yet's sort of. The amount of media attention it's received over the last year has been incredible. So if it actually does happen he is extradited, I think it'll be
nuts. Yeah, maybe all over the place. More opinions continue to emerge in response to recent comments about extraterrestrial life made by Stephen Hawking on his Discovery Channel series. Fellow astrophysicists and other scientists have voiced their opinions, some agreeing and some disagreeing with Hawking. Apollo astronaut doctor Edgar Mitchell is one of the members of the scientific community who certainly shares in Hawking believe that extraterrestrials do exist.
Mitchell has even gone further to say that he knows about alien visitations here on Earth and the government's efforts to cover up the truth. Yep I got to meet and listen to Funny Enough at the Comic Con here in Phoenix, says Shastak from SETI and Paul Davies, one of the lead astrobiologists, and they brought this up. They brought up, especially Shostak brought up that what they do at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence is they're looking for signals coming in,
so they're not sending out signals. But doctor Davies said, well, actually I have sent out signals, which is controversial, and that's essentially what Hawking was talking about is maybe we don't want to send out signals because they may respond and they may come here and then they may try to conquer and enslave us. All right, we don't know how they'll react and what they'll
want to do when they get here. Yeah, of course. But Davies and uh, well Davis especially, and Shawstack and doctor Cox to another famous physicist, they all agree that they think that if they're that advanced of a civilization, they had to have gotten past, you know, some of these social issues that we have, so they wouldn't be just these evil, tyrant,
cling on type characters. Well. I think they encountered that that issue in Star Trek, though, where all the people in the Federation supposedly had reached this level of enlightenment where we're very good people, but you still had the Romulens and the Klingons out there too. Yeah, and even at Q, which is this super omnipodent being, that was not necessarily that nice. I thank you so much. In other news, the unidentified flying object over
our Newfoundland we reported on back in January still remains a mystery. Government departments have been researching the incident, but still have no explanation for the object in the sky. So far, reports have ruled out missiles and model rockets. The incident has been officially called an unexplained sighting. In documents that have been released relating to this matter, the government has blocked nine pages and several paragraphs from public release. Yeah, I mean, who knows what the heck is
going on with this thing? What do you think would be on these documents that aren't being released? I don't know, you know. You sometimes you get these ideas that maybe there was secret testing going on that they're trying to hide, or maybe they're hiding their conclusion that they came up as an unknown
that they don't know and they don't want to admit that. Well, several different government sources or government entities have admitted to missile tests during that time, but not exactly on the day these things were seeing They said, oh, yeah, we were testing missiles, but it was the week earlier, right, you know, so there's been a lot of that talk about missiles. But now they've looked at it and said, well, they weren't missiles. Yeah, so who knows that. Unfortunately, we don't get a look at
those documents, no, or some paragraphs that have been blocked don't. We'll have to get Gary mckinnont hack in. They may have learned their lesson and actually locked their files down after McKinnon's walk in changed their password from password. Yes, password done a little harder. Yeah, that's it for the news. Remember to check these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. Your Open Mind correspondent, Jason McClellan. And you've
been briefed. That's you, Allehandro all right, you know, I wanted to mention a couple more things about the comic con which was a lot of fun, and that was just this past weekend, right, Yeah, so just uh and I got to meet those guys a couple of days ago. It was packed, absolutely packed. And one of the other doctors, there were three of them, one was the moderator. He was also an astrobiologist
from ASU, which so was Paul Davies. But Paul Davis is pretty famous with his books and everything, and he's extra famous after being on our radio show. But yeah, it was kind of in interesting to have such a gathering at a comic book convention. And it was pretty packed for a while, and then people got bored and about half the crowd left when it got to Q and a period because they were like, Okay, I get it. You know. I think if it would have been actually more about informing
people about UFOs, it would have been a bigger crowd. So hopefully they'll have us talking maybe next year. I used to do that in Denver and people loved it, but for the comic book thing. But it was kind of fun to have, you know, these guys in this setting. And the moderator was wearing his Star Trek shirt. He was one of the guys who helped put together the comic Con, So I think it's cool that,
you know, you have speakers like this. He's astrophysicists and serious scientists, approaching you know, younger crowds and people more in the sci fi realm, but reaching them through this interesting arena. And I got to admit with Shostak, and you know, people might get mad at me out there for saying something nice about the guy, especially in this arena, but he is a very he's a good speaker. He's a witty speaker. He even mentioned Freedman
to me a couple of times, kind of teasing him. But he's very much like San Friedman, someone that's fun to listen to, and he gets you excited about science, so I think he's a great spokesman for science. That's just unfortunate that really, I did notice though, they get into a lot of speculation and things that they can't substantiate, but they speculate about such as the nature, the possible nature and motives of anything that might be coming
here. So, you know, they speculate a lot about what we use radio signals because you know, it's possible that they see us. You know, they send us radio signals periodically. It's possible that when we pass in front of the sun and they're using that time to shoot us with radio signals and lights and stuff like this. And somebody already they did ask, well, wouldn't they just fly to us? Why would they send a radio signal?
And wouldn't they fly over? But unfortunately, both of these people are of the belief that, you know, just like people used to feel about this the sound barrier, that the speed of light is absolutely unbreakable, which is interesting because a lot of theoretical physicists, like doctor Mitchell Kuku, who I keep bringing up because he's so famous, you know, they feel that it's a matter of time before we figure out wormholes or some way to get
past that speed of light issue. So yeah, a lot of people kind of argued with him that way. I didn't go there, but I asked them, you know, sci fi, if they were sci fi fans and what that had an effect on their careers, and they both said Davi's not so much, but definitely Shostak, although Davies did refer to a couple of Star Trek things so he watched. The other guy who was there was very
affected, obviously had a Star Trek shirtnament. But Shostak too talked about we used to watch these movies and it was all it was sci fi that really got him excited. So sci fi plays an important role, and I think it does. Two. All right, coming up after the break, we're gonna have Chris O'Brien and we're gonna be talking about the mysterious San Luis Valley of Colorado. So stay tuned. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with Alejandra
Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back. I am Alejandro Rojas, your host at Open Minds Radio, and it's kind of funny they played the Alcoholics anonymous commercials there because this is Memorial Day weekend, and people barbecue and they drink a lot, and I'm sure there's gonna be some people kind of passed out in the parking lot. When I get back to my apartment. There are lots of people partying and barbecueing and Depp having a good
time. I hope you're having a good time this Memorial Day weekend. And I got to thank our guests doublely, not just for showing up and being here and sharing information, but also for coming on the show on this holiday. Mister O'Brien, are you there. I am here, all right. Great, it's good to hear you, and especially because you're you specialized in the San Luis Valley of Colorado, an area that I just really love.
I'd make sure to get out there several times every summer, and I'm gonna keep on doing that, even though I've moved to Arizona now, because not only is it mysterious for me, it just feels it feels special. I think a lot of people feel that way. Yeah, it's it's quite a quite a unique place. It's the largest alpine valley in the world. I often equate it to America's Attic it sits on the backbone of North America. It's completely surrounded on all sides by mountains. There's only four ways into the
valley. It's about if you look at the geologic valley, the San Luis Valley portion of it is north of the border with Colorado, but the actual geologic valley goes down to Taos where the Rio Grande Gorge then drains down to Santa Fe and you're looking at about one hundred and fifty mile by sixty mile roughly football shaped high alpine valley that is radar invisible below eighteen thousand feet. It doesn't really it's kind of in between the Denver and Albuquerque flight control regions,
so it's an aerial playground, shall we say. And of course I spent quite a number of years boots on the ground running around logging six years, I logged over three hundred thousand miles my truck, wow, vestigating reports and just about every conceivable type of paranormal phenomena and type of UFO and type of just unusual activity that you can possibly imagine. What got you interested or what got you into investigating the valley? Well, I ended up moving there
just kind of by accident. I had known about the valley for many years, actually, since I was a little kid. I remember the famous headline the first publicized unusual livestock death case or cattle mutilation, if you will, and that was this Snippy the horse case, which occurred in September sixty seven. And I remember as a little kid seeing the headline on the Inquirer the Globe, you know, one of those supermarket rags, and fetching my mom
to buy it for me so I could read it. And you know, I've always known since then about the valley, and I've always been very interested in what goes on there, but very good little information really makes it out of that region because it's so remote, right. And when I moved out to the west from living many years on the East Coast, I spent twelve years in New York City, a couple of years in Boston, and then moved out in eighty nine to Santa Fe and realized really quickly, you know,
I lasted a couple of three days there. I just didn't it just wasn't a good fit. So I had friends up in Crestone, which was a little town up in the San Luis Valli and he said, well, hey, come on up and check check it out up here and see what you think. So I did, and you know it's it's a very carnivorous environment there. It's a semi arid desert. There's one person for every seven
square miles. I lived for many years, thirteen years, sixty miles from the nearest stop light near at supermarket and there, you know, movie theater. But still fresh Stone. Now that you mentioned it and talking about how the valley is special, I mean that area they have what like a Tibetan Buddhist temple. I know they have a Japanese is it a big Japanese temple out there? They have an from un It's got eighteen unbroken spiritual lineages represented
their five secs of Tibetan Buddhism. Wow. Is n monastery a karmelike Christian monastery simmy Shimakai or is there subud? I mean you name it. If they are a legitimate spiritual lineage, then chances are they're represented there. Hannah and Maurice Strong spent many years vetting spiritual lineages and then bequeathing them forty acre parcels if they agreed to build some sort of temple or monasterily or spiritual center.
So you have just several dozen, uh you know, very h esteemed spiritual teditions represented there, and it's been equated to like a spiritual u n, which I've always thought would be a perfect place for any sort of grand arrival term by uh by you know, if you want to call them ET's
or aliens. I hesitate to use that term personally. But if there's ever a place that besides the White House lawn, of course, that you would expect some sort of uh, you know, initial interaction in a public way that the question baka gande would be be my uh the number one on my list getting into the UFO activity out there? What sort of U is there a general regular I mean, do they see similar type of things out there? Or does it very it's it's pretty much potpourri. It's it's a small
board of aerial activity. I personally have seen every type of uh, color and size and uh you know, type of orb for instance, or you know what people would refer to as as lighted aerial objects. The green ones tend to be largest, They're huge, they moved slowly, similar to the green fireballs that were reported in the Southwest and the late forties early fifties. That was my first real big nocturnal sighting. We have the orange lights that
that tend to be much smaller. Obviously, these other these green orbs, they're huge there, they could be hundreds of feet in diameter. The orange orbs tend to be smaller, about the size of a house to the size of a Volkswagen. Then you have your red tips that tend to be about beach ball to softball size, very super fast. They tend to zip around a lot ruby red laser like you know, light quality. It's it almost doesn't look real. It looks like a red that you've never seen before.
It's very hard to describe. So and this is what people used to call some of these like miners. Like well, yeah, if if you look at the work of Michael Persinger and Paul Devereaux, for instance, these could some of these could be some sort of un as yet undefined natural phenomenon that would be like earthquakes, fault lights type type activity. I'm working with I'm putting together a research project and I'm I'm enlistening the help of doctor Marsha Adams,
who is a an expert in the earthlit phenomenon. It's actually he's got a very good website called earth lights dot org that I, you know, I urge your listeners to check out. She's a real top notch scientist. I tend to keep al Hondra very very open mind. I don't factor anything in or anything out, but I do try to ground my analytical process in the data. I don't jump off into the realm of wanting to believe that something is one thing or another. I tend to try to to the best
of my amateur ability. I'm just an amateur here. I don't have any sort of you know, credential, So I'm not a veterinary pathologist when I'm out there investigating cattle mutilations. I'm not an astrophysicist, but I am really at the speed I've been trained by some very very good, very smart bite. We have to go to break pretty soon here. But I didn't want
to mention you aren't author. And you do have several books and one in the valley called the Mysterious Valley, Right, And what is a website where maybe people could look at that website during the break? Sure Our Strange planet dot com oh you are Strange Planet dot com. My recent books Talking the Tristers is there and Secrets of the Mysterious Valley, which is kind of a
compilation book about my thirteen years in the valley. There. All right, we'll talk more about that researcher, and we do have a caller on the line, Christine. Stay tuned. We'll get to you after this break because we've got to go to break first, and after the break we will be talking more about Chris's books, more about some of the mysteries of the valley. So it's going to be great. Remember, you can go to Openminds dot tv if you want to watch us live. So stay tuned. You
are listening to Open Minds Radio and we'll be right back. This is Open Minds Radio here again your host UFO paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome back to Open Minds Radio. We are talking to Chris O'Brien about the mysterious San Luis Valley in Colorado. We do have a caller online, Christine from Oregon. Are you there, Christine, Yes, I am okay, great, what is your question for Chris? Okay? Hello,
Chris, My name how courses. Christine and I used to live fifteen miles from the Skinwalker Ranch in Rosa Dot, Utah, and I was just wondering, but the similarities are between my mind, like the pelayout and the Skinmock Ranch, especially the agenda A very good question. I for whatever reason, just as a quick caveat I for many years I put sort of investigative blinders on and I would only investigate reports that were from the Greater Family Sally region.
And I considered that my kind of scientific investigative petri dish, if you will. And the only case that really drew me out of that valley was the Sherman Ranch case up in the inn A base in the south of Fort de Shame. I think the first national investigator on the site. Just as
the initial Zach Vneck article came out. In fact, Zach called me and said, you know, he'd really appreciated if I would talk to Terry and Gwen and give them, you know, at least show them that there were people out there that were, you know, involved in investigating the type of things that they had been dealing with there for a year and a half two years. I feel that that is probably one of the most important locations and
cases on record. I feel it is probably the most amazing single series of events in the paranormal that I'm aware of, and I do see a lot of parallels. As a matter of fact, there were times when we would see the exact same type of activity occurring simultaneously in Colorado that they would be experiencing up there on the Sherman Ranch, and the famous incident where Terry lost
his two dogs and they were melted into piles of Greece. Basically when the Blue Orbs came and checked out his horses and din the lights of the of the ranch there and checked out his wife. I happened to be on the phone Mitary when all that was going on, and after I hung up with him, I got a report of almost an exact type of of you know
of of Blue thoft Walfi's light. I find the synchronicity involved in this whole realm as being a very crucial I think the important key to potentially understanding or
furthering our understanding of these things. And again I do really feel that at some point it's really beholden to Nits to come clean and at least give you know, the research community access to the mountains of data that they have been able to compile over the last thirteen years that they've been up there, you know, knowing George Knapp and tell her and talking extensively with Terry and and you know, having a kind of an insider's sort of view on the case.
I feel the book Hunt for the Skinwalkers did not adequately address the case. There was quite a bit of information that was left out. Very few people in the book are on the record. There was no pitches, no data. I feel that this realm. I understand the scientific approach of not publicizing research before it's it's ready to be peer reviewed, but at the same time, I think that the research community should be tapped and should be brought
into ongoing cases like the Sherman Ranch case. And I don't feel that NI has done an adequate job of doing that. And you know, people go to my website Ourstrange planet dot com. My entire database is there. I don't care if you're from the intelligence community or you know, you're you know,
Christine from customers about Utah. Anybody is welcome to my data. And I'm honored that anyone would even consider checking it out and feeling that, you know, it is an important huge As Alejandro can tell you, I popped a hard copy of my citing satting log on the desk there a couple of weeks back, and you know, I'm real proud of the amount of work that I did there, and I'm willing to share and detail my efforts with anybody out there who feels that my work can help shed some light on their
process. And I feel we need more teamwork in this field. We don't need a lot of individuals running around or organizations running around in a proprietary for fashion trying to reinvent the wheel. I think if we put our heads together, we have a much better chance of figuring out all this stuff than we do if we go to Loone And that ranch is not too far from the San Luis Valley, really four hundred and thirty miles four hundred and thirty miles,
so that's fairly close, and it was it's the same. Well, at least I know youth Indian tribes have lived in all of these areas. That's what Utah is named after, and I know they lived in the valley as well. Do you know of some youth legends that kind of refer to some of this activity. Well, the youths have a very interesting uh you know, the traditional UH set of knowledge that is kind of unique in a way. They're they're very for hundreds and hundreds of years, and for many
generations, they were nomadic. So they when you say they lived in the valley, they didn't really live there. They didn't really live anywhere. They were always on the move. Of course, they did tend to hang in places during the warm warmer months where there was plentiful game and you know, a food source, so they would stay for extending periods of time in locations. But they weren't like the Pueblo UH people, the Zuni, the Hope,
et cetera. They didn't build permanent uh the villages and settlements. They were always on the move. The youths have a really interesting tradition as it relates to the valley. One of the things that I should point out now that you know we brought up the subjects of Native Americans, the San Luis Valley is the only region in North America that three regional groups of Indians co
inhabited and shared during the warmer months. The Great Basin Indians like the Youths, the Southwestern tribes, the Pueblo Indians and the Navajo, the Domain, Apaches, and the Great Plains Indians, you know, of course the Lakota, Dakota, of the Cherokee, Neo Apahoe. They would all peacefully coexist in the valley until you know, of course, the white settlers arrived,
and then then warfare broke out between tribes. But for many, many generations, it was a place of a sacred you know, vision quest area, sacred hunting ground. There was no violence between humans that for many many years. And it was only until you brought in the wildcard of the Spanish, you know, coming up to real grand and then of course the miners and the settlers coming in that you started to see, you know, problems between
the tribes. But yeah, my family history, actually one of my ancestors was a Pueblo Indian who started the Pueblo revolt and then his son worked with the Spaniards when they came back. And I guess, but I do, I guess Before I share, I do want to share you the story from my history family history that was kind of strange, but so are there native I would assume there are Native American legends about some of the strangeness that goes
on down there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I you know, of course, this is the hardest type of research to do because you're dealing with indigenous cultures that didn't write anything down. So uh, basically it's it's quite a process too, you know, to meet people that are holders of of of the oil tradition and get them to a place where they trust a nosy
white boy with a black cowboy hat. So that that that, you know, I worked many years, uh, cultivating relationships, honoring requests for anonymity, uh, you know, and and and being a stand up guy, and so that elicited trust and in over the years, and finally Native Americans would open up to me and uh and share things. And yes, the area is the location of the sacred Mountain of the East system of Jimmy. In the Dnate tradition, Banca Peak is considered the portal or gateway to realities
where all thought originates. I did manage to shoehorn some interesting observations from one Native American medicine man, Dnay Navajope, who said that there are doorways in the song grated Crystal Mountains, which make up the whole eastern side of the Family STALLI it's the longest continuous mountain range in North America. And he said that there's a doorway or doorways that exists between Blanca Peak and Crestone Peak,
which is about a forty five mile stretch of the Song Grays. And I tried to get him to pin it down, and he got a little exasperated and said, well, there is no spot. It moves. And I found that very interesting. It's almost like it could be some sort of vortex or portal that may somehow move because of some sort of relationship with THEIRS magnetic field that I know a lot of people have reported UFOs flying into Blanca Peak. In fact, I've heard of a report of what looked like a yellow
airplane flying into the peak. Yeah. During and between sixty six and sixty nine, there were dozens and dozens of reports of these small scout craft, you know, ten twelve, fifteen foot craft that would be flying in and out of Middle Creek Hill, which is just north of Blanca Peak. I've also you know, my siding log has reports of not only spots or type craft or you know anomalous craft flying into the mountains, but also conventional air
force craft that was seen flying into the mountains. I personally saw with binoculars one one. It was untainted. It was aluminum colored and shiny. It was actually kicking off reflections from the sun like it didn't have a pain job, and it blinked out right, you know, I had binoculars on this thing. Wow, incredible. Well, let's finish up. I'll talk more about that. We've got to go to break right now. We'll be right
back. We're talking to Chris O'Brien about the mysterious San Luis Valley in Colorado and the UFO sightings that he's had out there. We'll be back in just a minute. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Minds Radio, Alejandro Rojas, Hello, and welcome back. You're listening to Open Minds Radio and we're talking to investigator and author Chris O'Brien, who's written about a lot of
strange phenomena happening in the San Luis Valley of Colorado. And Chris, we have another caller on the line, Ronald from Phoenix, Ronald, Are you there? Yeah? Have you ever seen any black triangles or V shaped craft? Truthfully? Possibly? One? One black triangle? Pardon me, one black trian? Cool? Yeah, it was a nocturnal, unlit triangle that blocked out the stars. Of course, of it nine feet The stars are quite dramatic, and if something flies between you and them, it's pretty easy
to determine that it's you know, its size and approximate shape. I did have one sighting of a large, super large triangular object that blocked out the stars, but it had no lights on it. It's interesting that you should ask. We've had well over a dozen reports of triangle shaped objects in the valley, including four reports by law enforcement that I feel is some of the
best in our databases. You have any video video tape, you have any video footage of view of No, I personally don't, and I don't know of any. Generally, these things are seen, you know, by by people that are out in the backwoods areas. They tend to fly over the more unpopulated remote areas and oftentimes, you know, back in the nineties, it's not like today where you have a lot of you know, cell phone
cameras and whatnot. But when they're the ex sheriff of a county tells you that he saw a big triangle being accompanied by S sixteen flying slowly over the San Juans, who might have tell him that he's pulling my leg? You know what I mean? All Right, thanks for your call, Ronald, And speaking of you know, the law enforcement, have they been cooperative with you and your investigations. Absolutely. In fact, one of the sheriffs kind
of referred to me as his unofficial deputy of weirdness. I've worked very closely with three counties, and I wished I'd been able to work that closely with two other counties, but I did have a working relationship with five sheriff's departments. That's a cool title. That'd be a good title for US television show, the Deputy of Weirdness. Deputy of Weirdness there you go, or for
professional wrestler. If they had a cattle mutilation case, they would instantly just you know, call me in on it, and I would be the first person to get called in, and we'd go ahead and do a field investigation of the site and we gather forensic evidence, planning, soil samples, that sort of thing. Law enforcement in the valley is is pretty gunshy right now because of all the publicity that was generated by my work, not by me. I've never called the media ever to get on TV shows, radio shows,
in newspaper articles. I prefer the Eisenberg approach, you know, where the observer, you know, affects what he's observing. So I'm not going to go out there and pump myself as a personality or the Sandy Sally as as a hotspot area. I'll at the actual work itself sort of generate the interest. So yeah, law enforcement got a little bit gun shy after so many TV shows started showing up and stuff. But I still am in contact with them, and I did get reports from them, especially in the cattle
death room. Well let's talk about, you know, in the last segment here your books, in your latest book. Okay, jeez, Yeah, there's just so much to it. I'm sure flown by oh, I know, the Times, just finding the Trickster in ten minutes. Basically my first
three books. The knock on them by some of the people that were really interested in what I was doing was that I didn't really present any sort of theories or come up with any sort of rationale for who was behind all these events, from hauntings to spook wides to which is a cult, crimes, the weird weather, catamuulations, all sorts of UFO stuff, Native American legends,
secret military bases. All this type of stuff is information is contained in my books about reports that I fielded, But I didn't really come up with a with a overarching theories that would attempt to explain how and why all this stuff was going on and who was perpetrating it. So it took about ten years and I started to slowly develop a theory that we're dealing with some sort of collective manifestation within the human collective unconscious, which is, you know,
one of a whole group of a dozen or so archetypes. You know, I'm a real follower of Carl Jung, who was Sigmund Freud's star pupil. He came up with the idea of the collective human unconscious. He came up with some basic symbols that exist in all cultures, the hero, the king, the god, the goddess, the shadow, and the trickster. The trickster is the most ancient and primordial collective archetype or symbol within all of human
culture worldwide. It's the oldest archetype that has features facial features. So the trickster is you can divide into three categories. One is the antipomorphosized animal like coyote would be an example. The second is the tragic hero, which would be like Prometheus or Loki. Prometheus, of course, stole fire from Zeus and gave it to humanity. Those two types of twists tend to provide humanity with changes either in gaya the environment or supplying technology to help better the human
condition. The third type is the shamanic trickster, which is kind of the link between the paranormal side and the human side. Of course, we've had shamans for thousands of years. Monotheism, of course stamped out the shamanic process in the Western world and replaced it with the priest class. But the shamanic trickster is the most I think the form that people could identify with most readily. Bernie Madoff, Harry Houdini, Chris Angel. These are kind of in
one way, shape or form or another. There are kind of shamanic tricksters. Flight of hand stage with the magic, going and treating on Halloween, putting a mask on a masquerade ball, Ronald McDonald, and clown forms. These are all basically developments of the trickster as it's been sort of manifested in
modern culture. Most people don't realize that the trickster is probably one of the most powerful forces for creating change in our societies, in our cultures, and right now we're living probably in the most tricksterish times in several hundred deers, And do you feel like that the ranch in Utah and the San Luis Valley are places that somehow manifests that trickster kind of doing these things is utilizing trickster
methodology and utilizing trickster tools. The classic case that the Sherman Ranch would be two cameras in line of sight with one another. One camera crashes and goes down, the other cameras filming it, and when they go check out the camera that crashed, all the wires are ripped out, and the other camera
didn't pick up anything. How do you explain that It seems to me that there's some sort of tricksterish force or energy that's involved in most, if not all, paranormal phenomena, and I think we should, as smart creative thinkers, factor out all closed system earthbound biosphere explanations to explain all these things before we get anthropomorphic enough to who think that we're important enough for anything out there to be coming here. As you know, Alejandro, I have a real
problem with the extraterrestrial hypothesis. I don't feel that there's a shred of evidence to suggest that we're important enough for anything out there to come and visit us. I think all a majority of these paranormal phenomena and these entities and energies
are all generated by this closed system here called Earth. And you know, I'm not very popular in some circles in ufology for saying this, but I think people like mac Tone's Jacques Ballet John Teel have been slowly trying to get people to get creative in their thinking and not buy into their to their wants to believe sort of, you know, side I really fine, Yeah, I think I see what you're saying, because I do appreciate, you know,
personally, John Keel, Sanderson, even Sanderson even into some of these well, and even doctor j Allen Heinek and some of these alternative answers that may explain. Well, for sixty years the conventional nuts and bolts. Guys haven't taken us very far, have they, right? I mean, whether we know now that we didn't know sixty years ago, very little? Right? Well, unfortunately we know it's all equivocal. We can't prove it, right. Unfortunately, we are out of time. I know, we are
talking about it for full two hours. Man, we just lick in the tip of the iceberg. Alejandro, Oh, I hear you, man. I knew this would happen because I knew, you know, when we talked before that time would fly. And sure enough it did. And we're out of time. But let them know your website again real quick. It's our Strange Planet. Oh you are strange planet dot com and my entire database is there. It's free to sign up, and I don't give your name away
to any sort of email spammers. Good, all right, well, yeah, I invite everybody to come in and check it out. All right, thank you very much for being on the show. No problem, Let's do it again. Oh for sure, it's a pleasure. Next week we're gonna have James Fox. He's the guy who did the couple of great documentaries on UFOs. I know what I saw was the latest one and we'll be talking to him about his experiences creating these great documentaries. So we'll see you next
week. Thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio. Bleak do you watch your feet? Let folks,