Chase Kloetzke, Investigating the "Starchild Skull"

Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with Martin Ruskie Willis. I'm not actually Martin Ruskie. Willis you know who I am today? Who I am Martin wishing you a happy birthday, Willis. Well, that's good. I guess, Well, thank you. It is my birthday. I usually don't like to make a thing about my birthday, Like I'm not big into parties and

stuff. And it's funny because people because I do the radio show and I love you know, you can tell I think when I'm on stage and I'm having fun and I like being on stage, and you can tell I have fun when I'm doing this radio show because I do. But I'm not like, I'm like an introvert and extrovert in that I don't like attention on me. I think that's what's cool about radio is that you know, the attention isn't so much on you. You're just by yourself talking with a buddy,

having fun and you know what people are listening. But it's not like people are giving you attention. So that's why I'm kind of shy about my birthday. But thank you. You're welcome, and just one more thing, Happy birthday, Alejandro. That's cute as long as you don't sing. I was thinking about it, but I dare you because I've sang. I sang on my show, I'm sang on your show. I don't think. Once you have sang, and that's Happy birthday to you, Happy birthday to you,

Happy birthday. Do all ahome the happy birthday too. That was beautiful. That was really good. I don't know why you don't sing more often, because that was that was great. I was trying to do something that Bill Bill Murray used to do, this thing where he used to used to do like a lounge singer. Yeah. I love that, so yeah, I was trying to do that. That's where he does a stars talking about Star Wars. I'm glad you get the reference. Yeah, I love Bill Murray.

That was good. That was good, Bill Murray. That was good singing. I thoroughly enjoyed that. Thank you so much. Martin. You're welcome. So I called you a Ruski because you're in Russia and and that I don't mean that as a bad thing, And you know, I get overly freaked out, and I always say that I don't mean that as a bad thing. I don't mean that as bad thing because I don't want people to think that I mean that as a bad thing. And it seems like

whenever I don't say that, then people get upset. So like, you know, who did we get upset last time? Oh? Sanada? Oh no, no, no, Canada. Recently, but the last show, I had to make an apology because people thought I was being are you and I were being mean about Heather Wade and Art Well and that wasn't I didn't intend to do that at all. No, that they're great. I love our I don't really know Heatherweight, but she seems great, so yeah,

I have no problem with any of that. So I had to apologize because someone got upset about that. But yeah, and then just recently Canada because we were talking about Canada Day, which we got the facts completely wrong, and I certainly apologized for that, and they're like, you could have just googled it, dude, and it was like, okay, that's true, but we were talking, so it was in the mid conversation. I couldn't

google and get the facts mid conversation. I do most humbly apologize for not having the facts when it comes to Canada Day, which is actually on the first. But you know that they said in the article, the person said the second exactly. They said they were celebrating on the second. So maybe they were just celebrating the day after. Maybe it was on a Friday or

Thursday, and so celebrations were the next day or something like that. So we innocently assumed it was the second, and then we joked around about, you know, the stealing thunder, Yeah, trying to steal our thunder or something like that. And even that's not bad because if they had decided, you know what, let's steal some of the July fourth juju from these goofball Americans, we'll have our holiday a few days before, so there's will be like a follow up and it'll be like, oh, you know, we're

already over it, we already celebrated. I think that would be great. I think that'd be genius and that would have been a good move like Canadians. So I didn't I wasn't criticizing that that concept, if that's what they did. I was, you know, saying, hey, good job, Canada getting one over on us. But what can you do? Yeah, oh well yeah, So if any Canadians were offended, and luckily mostly for the most part, this is a stereotype, but a stereotype I've found to

be true. Canadians are pretty damn nice, so I think that obviously they'll accept our apology, which is heartfelt. And I'm a big fan of Canadians, so me too, our neighbors to the north, we love you, mm hmm. And I guess they're really good with computers. I used to work at this company where I was a trainer. I managed this training department for computers and stuff, and we had a call center in Canada, and

the manager used to remind us every phone call. He had to remind us, well, you know, Canadians are much better at communter computers and Americans because we teach him in school. He used to say that every time, and you know, you remember, yeah, just to be nice. I would never call him on it. And I'm a stats guy, where I would have said, well, according to our statistics right here, you know, you're not performing as well. But they would perform pretty well. But

just because they were mostly they were very nice in everything the customers. So if you get it, Canadian call center, it's a very you're lucky because you're going to get someone really nice. But yeah, I just remembered that about Canadians. So hey, so who do we have for a guest on the show today? Oh, that's that's right. We're doing a radio show right now. I've almost forgotten it's a UFO radio show. It's not a Canadian or Russian radio show. So yeah, let's talk about UFOs and I

have someone excellent to speak about UFOs on the show today. Actually we're more speaking about aliens, and that is Chase Kletsky. And she, of course is a researcher with mouf On. I say of course because I've had her on the show before and I talked about her on the last show because she was the MC at the Roswell UFO Festival the weekend before last, which was a lot of fun. I was there speaking and she introduced me and she made me sound like I was, you know, amazing, and she oversold.

So I think people were extremely disappointed when they're like this guy is not. She made it sound like this guy was like incredible. He was kind of dorky with some goofball jokes. This guy's a goofball. No, I think people like my talk. But she's great. She works with Moufon, and we'll go over some of that history of what she's doing with move On, because I think when I interviewed her last she was critical of Moufon and that was part of our discussion, and you know, here's some behind the

scenes. So after we talk, you know, I was like, you know, you should talk with jan again. Have you ever talked with him and see if you could work some of this out? And she's like, no, I don't really know him. So we got him together. We said, Jan, you should talk to Chase and we arranged it and they got together and she's been enthusiastically involved with moufon research, and we'll talk about that, but in particular, we're gonna talk about the star Child skull.

Do you remember what that is? I sure do. I had Lloyd pie On years ago. Yeah. So Lloyd pie is a guy. He was a guy investigating a former journalist I believe it's his background, who was investigating this odd skull that was found in Mexico that he believed maybe of extraterrestrial origins, and he felt that the DNA was a little bit strange. It turns out he was not the owner of the skull. He was just the investigator. And actually Chase will be going over that history with us. And she

did a very extensive examination of this skull. And some of you may be aware because we did share her findings on our Facebook and all of our social media and stuff, because they did a great job. And so I think people are going to find this really interesting. I think her honesty and how

they went about this was great. But beyond that, she's also looked at these Peruvian skulls, these elongated skulls that people also think maybe alien, and we share she shares her findings thus far, her and some of the people she's worked with, like La Marzouli, have discovered regarding these calls. So I think it's really interesting. Chase is great. So a lot of is. Yes, I've always thought a lot of her. She's a very very nice person, super energetic and just really fun to be a bit around.

She's always smiling and happy, and it definitely she made the Roswell thing great. So, yeah, thanks for reminding me that we're doing the UFO podcast here, No problem at all. Do you want me to start out with a news story? Wow? You're just taking the lead here. It's your birthday. I'm trying to make you relax. Man. Oh well, thank you. Sure, I'm gonna sit back, and why don't you entertain me on my birthday with some UFO stories. I will start with this or and

I'll finish with this too. And it's Aatian mechanic unable to identify a sphere shaped object that this happened. Yes, this happened in Ohio, holding a county and he was actually watching and he got to photograph, and he took a short video which I downloaded and took a look at. So this happened back in June, June tenth of this year, and it was at night. Now, if you look at the pictures there's stills on Open Minds, you will see that it does not look like nighttime. So this probably lightened

up a little bit. The video does look like it's at night. And so he said he went out to grab his cell phone charger out of his scooter or glove box and saw this object hauling bleep. This is a family show, right, that's true. Yeah, across the sky. And he only had a little bit of time to snap a picture and a bit of video. So he said it was moving quite fast, and the video it

does do kind of get the sense that it is moving fairly fast. Now, he's worked on F sixteen's and he has enough knowledge of planes and helicopters to know it wasn't a plane and it wasn't arc it wasn't arcing like a falling space object would. So there is a clip. It's available, you can download it. And so this is being investigated by Joseph pel Pelvenski and he closed it as an unknown at this time. So I don't know if

you checked out the video. The stills are actually pretty decent. When you go in, it does kind of look like kind of a sphere or almost a disc shaped object has a nice, pretty bright glow to it. Of course it wouldn't be glowing, you know, there's no reflection unless there was the moon reflection. I don't know what else would make it glow like that. Yeah, pretty interesting. What do you think of the video? Like I said, the video, it does appear that it is. You know,

it's hard to see it first, you can see it. It does appear though that it is moving along only because you see a little bit of a flash of the tree line, you know, like he's following it or something. So I don't know, it's yeah, that's an outstanding one. That one's really interesting. Who knows. It's a tough one to say, but yeah, that's an interesting case. These are fun, these ones. There are some interesting pictures and videos. You know, we talked about when

last week coming up in the move on files. Did you happen to see that other one where the witness felt like they caught the military chasing a UFO I did. I checked that out. Yes, if do you want me to say that one too, so you can just relax on your birthday?

Oh, that'd be great, go for it, all right. So this witness allegedly captures this is really interesting because this was at a meeting out in California where there was a bunch of people at a mutual Wait a minute, no, it was I guess I'm not really prepared for this one man conference. It was a UFO conference, that's right. And but the video is really crazy. It is a night vision video, so I never know what to exactly think of those. But what happens is this this thing is moving

right along and it looks like two parallel lights. You can actually see stars between them, and they're pretty close to each other, and they're steady lights and they're moving what appears to be rapidly, and behind it there is a jet chasing it. You can see the lights flashing on the jet, the navigation lights flashing. No lights are flashing on the two lighted. Again, it seems to be moving right along. This happened at the Joshua Tree and

back in May twenty first of this year. So they were all outside, they were all like looking for UFOs and they actually saw this, which I think is is pretty cool. And this was right I think was near Giant Rock, wasn't it. Yeah. Yeah, So in the video you do see two lights followed by two more lights. The second set of lights you can tell is an aircraft. It's very apparent because they're blinking. The first set of lights are similar to the second, but not blinking, so it's

difficult to tell exactly what it is that's the alleged UFO. Now, one of the people there says she had some night vision goggles and she took a look, and there's an image there of what she feels she saw a diamond shaped object. My question would be that kind of looks like an aperture, one of those aperture, you know, fuzzy things, which would makes sense, you know that if it was a bright point of light. Sometimes they

kind of are they the light. You're not getting an accurate view of what the light looks like, especially with night vision, and it could be just the shape of the aperture that makes it diamond shape. Now I don't know that for sure, So hopefully someone will chime in and tell me you are so wrong. You don't know what the heck you're talking about, or someone will say, hey, you've been listening to Mark D'Antonio, haven't you.

I think that it's rubbing off and you got it right. So Mark will be the first to tell me if I'm full of it, So we'll see. But yeah, so that's interesting. People have chimed in. Now, this is kind of funny. You might be reading this story today from on the Daily Express, which is a UK tabloid. They did pick up this story and they wrote about it, I think today, and they did interview at least a couple people, including this guy from UFO Interests got Brando who's

in our Facebook a lot making comments too. And he makes a lot of good comments. He's UFOs of Interest, I think is the name of his website. But yeah, he made the comment that he feels they are both aircraft and that the first set of lights just looks like an aircraft. They're just not blinking, so a different kind of lights, which is possible.

So, and you know, when they're doing exercises often the military. I've seen this many times myself because they do it at nearby Goldwater Range and this where all the stuff they're doing out there is mistaken for UFOs often, but they'll often be working in covert mode where their visible lights are often only their infrared lights are on. So I don't know. I guess that's possible because this was a black and white night vision scope, but Scott Brando did not

think that it was mysterious. He felt they were aircraft. So we'll see now. Now the person investigating this is kind of cool too because he's in one of our online buddies as well. Move On, California, Movefon. Chief Investigator Earl Gray Anderson is the guy who's investigating, so no doubt he will keep us up to date on his investigation, and he's made at least a couple of comments, not really regarding just that he's working on it and

he appreciates any input sort of thing. So he hasn't told us what he's figured out or anything. But yeah, he's often in our Facebook group as well the open minds UFO news groups. So come check that out. So Earl's great, He's a really cool guy. And what an interesting name, Earl Gray. Huh oh, yeah, it sounds like a tea, right, isn't that a tree? It is a tea and made famous, at least in the United States by you know, Jean Luke Bicard who always drink

Earl Gray tea. Wow, boy, you you're really rounded, you know that. Well, I'm trying to lose weight, so thanks for pointing that out. I haven't gone to the gym in the last week as much as I typically doers would like to. But yeah, well that's that's not what I meant, you know. Oh well, okay, oh thank you? Then, yes, So one more, one more thing I want to talk

about. This is really cool. So Richard Hoffman, who formerly former director at state director of a couple of states in Mufan, recently left there and now he is working with the SEU. He already was, so the SEU, the Scientific Coalition for Ufology, is the group that investigated the Puerto Rican case, the Homeland Security case and wrote up that paper. And they're still doing that. In fact, they're ongoing answering questions and analyzing, you know,

people's theories on that might be trying to figure it out. They feel for the most part they haven't come up with a satisfactory answer, and they do have more investigations regarding that, you know, underway, and they're going to be releasing more. However, you know, one of the areas he was state director was in Alabama, and so he wrote an article for US on Open Minds about a phenomena out there that is very similar to the Hesdealen

lights. So the Hesdalen lights, you know, we talked about that quite a bit. There are these lights in Norway over this valley that nobody seems to be able to figure out. Well, there's a similar phenomena in Cloverdale and in Alabama. In fact, there's a gentleman, Wyatt Cox. He's written a book about it called spook Lights, and he's done an investigation into

this. But Richard Hoffman is part of an ongoing investigation to figure out what the hell these things are, and so he's written an article about this and it sounds fascinating. So these light orbs that people are seeing so pretty cool stuff. So people that can go on the line and read his article about

this, you'll see some lights that are similar. One really cool thing about this article that he submitted as well is that there are links to books that he's using as reference to people who have done investigations into luminous phenomena, so you know, falls of light and that. So that's an extremely helpful reference because you know, these are people who have done some scientific reference or investigations, some books that people really should look into if you are studying or investigating

UFOs to understand this phenomenon better and what it might be. But certainly, you know, Rich feels it it's a mystery, and so does a group investigate. But yeah, that's pretty exciting. Now what do you just just to ask your opinion, your personal opinion on your thoughts. Do you think

that these are some type of natural phenomena? I have no clue. You know, erling Strand, who is the professor who has a group that he takes students out to investigate this in Norway and he works with other universities like in Spain and elsewhere to investigate these things. They come from the perspective that they are some sort of natural plasma phenomena type of thing, a kin to you know, ball lightning or something like that, but he doesn't feel that

way. He actually feels that there's evidence of these things moving intelligently and demonstrating some intelligence. So yeah, he feels that they're they're much more mysterious than some natural phenomena. So I am amazing. Yeah, I mean, I have no idea. I think what's exciting about this is that there are people researching these things and trying to use, you know, equipment that can gather information on these things to be able to determine what they're made of and what

they might be. So there's hope of discovering the nature of the phenomena. And that's what gets me really excited about Hesdeln and now this and some of the other like the Marpha lites or things that are being investigated out there. So yeah, I have no idea though. I mean for me, I will defer to the experts, and they're finding. Yes, really that sounds

like a good idea, smart idea. I think it's great that they have taken it serious enough where they will actually, you know, get scientific equipment out there and get scientists out there to study that. And I'm glad that they're going to be taking it more serious in Alabama two and that out. Yeah, really cool. So before we're done, just one more thing I want to mention. First of all, there's some there are a lot of

great UFO stories out there recently. And I don't mean well, I don't want to beg on them too bad, because I always do, but I don't mean just only the UK tabloids, because unfortunately, really maybe only one out of five stories, which is better than the statistics have been in the past, because I used to say zero out of zero stories, but I mean only one out of five stories in the UK tabloids is actually based off

of real information or not making too many wild claims. It's great they're referring to people like Scott Brando or Nigel Watson or of course Nick Pope. Those are very level headed people who give him some good input. But besides that, there's also a lot of UFO news out there, so of course we post it every day. But it's just great that there's there's a lot of it. I mean, there's an abundance out there of interesting stuff. Now.

One of these stories, however, is of a smoke ring, and I saw that, yeah, and I just want to warn people that, you know, we've done stories on this before, and I've got the link at least on our social media and you can if you look at smoke ring on our website, you'll see this. But smoke rings are common, like when something explodes, just like when you're smoking, you know, and people like Gandolf, you know, Ganolf can do some pretty elaborate smoke str ring

stuff, but normal people can make circles and stuff. A lot of people can. Or who did that, Godzilla, Baby Godzilla, remember baby Godzilla before he could do fire, did these little smoke rings. But the point is funny is that when during festivals and stuff like that, or even in this case, I think they said it was a transformer exploding and the smoke

created or ring. So explosions can often create a ring of smoke. So a lot of people are out there making a big deal about this smoke ring, and oh my gosh, it's a an alien or blah blah blah or a portal or whatever. No, it's just a normal occurrence. So probably most of you see that and you think, well, it's smoke, big deal. But of course, uh, newspapers and stuff like this sensationalize some of this stuff, so it's not as mysterious as some of these people are

making it out to be. That's right. Yeah, you know, usually when transformers blow, it's really really bright. It's like some of the yeah, you know, so bright it hurts your eyes to look at it. Yeah, so I'm surprised. I'm surprised if it would be that. It seems like they would know that something was Well, if it's if it's during the day and you know, a few blocks away, you're not going to

see the light, but you'll see the ring. And not only that, the light doesn't last for that long when it explodes, you know, it's a few seconds because I've seen this actually, and then but the smoke ring then slowly floats up, so it's it's present for much longer. So people are more likely to see the ring than the lights, I think, especially during the day. So yep, all right, anything else buddy. No, I hope people got past the happy Birthday song to listen to the rest

of the Show's right kidding. They're probably like, my goodness, he sounds wonderful and I can't wait to hear him sing more. I think that's what they're thinking. I think they're more likely to stay listening because they're like, man, I can't turn the channel or turn this off because of the chance that Martin is going to sing some more and it's wonderful. So see me at the Starlight Lounge. Yeah, maybe we'll have you perform at the UFO

Congress. You know you could do UFOs. Look at those UFOs. No, I think you're you're the one. You're you're the talent. Now you you Happy birthday again? Man? All right, yeah, thank you very much. You have a safe time out there, whinter How long do you have out there? Still? Eleven days? Eleven days, so a little more than a week, about a week and a half and then and then you'll be back. So you have a safe trip, enjoy those eleven days, and I guess we'll be talking to you soon. All right, sounds

good? All right, you next week, talk to you later. I am super, super excited. Usually I'm super excited to have my guests, but now I am today, I'm super duper excited to have Chase Kletzki back on the show. Hello Chase, Hi, allieandre I'm so happy to be here. It's always like so much fun. When we're in the same room, it is fun. And we were in the same room quite a bit recently in Roswell. What a great experience. I am still excited and very

motivated it. That's probably the word I walked away with on a personal level. I needed that time with professional colleagues and it was amazing. Every moment of it well was fun, and you am seed and you were great at it. I'm not sure if you received a lot of peffe quickly you did positive. It was good to have someone coming up in between the talks that just had this big smile and lots of positive energy, so it helped set the pace for the event. And I would say the whole event was kind

of like that. People were pretty happy and positive and it went really well. Huh. I absolutely agree. And you know, we kind of commented later that we didn't hear any complaints and technically there should have been a couple.

You know, we had air conditioning problems and the room wasn't ready, and you know, and no one cared because the attitude and the atmosphere provided by the speakers and you know, all of us that were responsible for the people who actually bought the tickets, because it's all about them, really,

they were really receptive to that positive energy. It's funny you say that too, the honesty that there should have been some complaints, and perhaps there could have justifiably been some like you mentioned, But I think that the fun that

everybody was having and what outweighed the rest where even myself. You know, sure it was hot, in fact, after my talk, I was literally drenched in sweat, but I mean it was overshadowed by the fun that we all had and I didn't even think twice about any anything that was negative. It was just a good time. I think that's the group of people that were collected, for lack of a better word, or assembled the you know, it was just you know, we're all friends, we all know each

other. Some I'm closer to than others, like doctor Courtney Brown. What a treat he was. And you know, I learned that Nick Pope is freaking hysterical, like you know, it was just you know, and then of course sharing that time with people that I do know very well, like yourself and Karen and you know, move on, Phoenix, move on. Everyone knows. I rave about them. They're untouchable with excellence. I love that group. Yeah, they're pretty cool. So yeah, it was all

fun. It went so well, and I really don't there's not even much to gossip about, you know, I know, and that's that's a good thing finally, right, I mean this, you know, eupology has taken some hits, and you know, some deservingly so and others not so much. And I just feel that, you know that again assemble a group of people that have been in it for decades and have been in it in the hard times and when it wasn't cool, that we're still gathering together with that

joy and you know, attitude of just moving forward. It's it's okay if everybody else, you know, hates this whole genre, I'm still going to investigate UFO reports. So we're and so would everybody else that you know we were speaking with. You know, we're motivated. It reminds me of a high performance team where you have a group of people that are just so focused on one thing they can they can barely pay attention to anything else. You know, we're the group that lets the laundry go, and you know,

the apocalypse could happen and we're still in the field. Yeah, exactly, So I guess we'll move on from Roseol to Some of their listeners are probably will you could make it, and that's your own fault because they should have made it. Just kidding. I know people have work and everything, and people are probably saving their time up so they can come to the UFO Congress, which is probably a great idea. And you'll be there, Yes, I am. I hate to miss it. It took me years to finally

get there. And you know, that's almost a curse because one you know that the Congress is the best conference out there, and when you're actually there, it makes it ten times harder to miss it. It's just brutal, brutal to miss it. So I'm going to be there. I'm excited because you know, be hopefully working with the team. It's gonna be fun. It's going to be a lot of fun. And just so people know a little bit more about what you do, maybe we could talk about that.

What you do you at move On, You've run the Star Team, so maybe you can explain what that team is and you might have more titles the Warrior doing this move On that I'm not even aware of. So if that's okay, let's go over that. Yeah right now. You know, of course MoveOn is only part of what I do, because I also work very closely with Kerrie McClure with the Field Reports, and you know, that's all our other stuff because I still love paranormal and cryptids and you know, I

just love the mystery. But in move On, I focus on the you

know, UFO reports that are generated and I do. I lead what they call the Special Assignment Team, which is actually a level above the Star Team, and it's we've assembled this group of very experienced investigators that once again I profiled every single member on this team to be part of that high performance and it's been in existence for three years where rocking cases every single month, but we handle only the most critical and sensitive cases reported to move On and only

the cases that come outside of the CMS. So we never work a case that a witness just puts into the reporting site unless we're asked to assist, and we are asked often, so you know, we're just really rocking. We've had three major deployments this year and all this information is coming out usually you can read our final reports in the journal. That's been the place they go. And you know, I love working with this group. It's a small team. There's there's less than ten of us, and we like it

that way. You know, I've not had a single problem, drama, upset, nothing, not a say. You know, it's a professional you know, it's a it's a high professional arena where you know, we just work. We just work the cases. But I kind of when Jan asked me to, you know, kind of help to develop a new team for headquarters, I kind of thought, we have all the investigators taking care of everything out there, you know, like a police department in an area.

But when you have something big or significant, you know, they know to bring in experts and a task force. And that's exactly how I've designed SAT team. So I do that. I'm also on international tag and I am assisting some of the countries out here that we don't have national leadership, you know, Cuba, Iceland, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Central America, Guatemala, Cayana, Honduras, Jamaica, Columbia, Costa Rica, nic Panama, and Venezuela. Those are my areas that I investigate all the reports coming in

from those countries. So oh in Mexico, does I say Mexico? But I love that. I love working international cases. And I'm also on the communications team as an associate producer. I work very closely with the radio shows and also TV. We're getting a lot of TV coverage and TV requests. So just an associate producer, learning the trade as we move up. So it sounds like you're keeping busy. Yeah, yeah, and it's yeah, I kind of take corners on two wheels a Leandro and I love it.

So I like to stay very busy. I put forty forty to sixty hours in every single week, even my weeks of you know, when I'm on vacation, because I just this is what I do. I love it.

Well. Cool, So you're keeping really busy. And another thing you're doing, and what we're going to talk about is these other investigations that you do, such as these Star Child Skull. So this came about in fact, you know, you came to Arizona, and you talked about this and you posted your results online since and it looks like you guys did some great and exhaustive work on this, So I wanted to talk about, you know,

what you discovered. And I guess first we can describe what the scar Child skull is and maybe how you ended up hearing about it, and then how you became involved with investigating it. Yeah, this skull has been around for decades and it's most famous with the name Lloyd Pie who was a researcher.

He was actually investigating a big foot, you know, that was his thing, and he was at a move on meeting in Texas and the owner, Melanie Young, happened to go there with this skull that she just thought was so anomalous looking and odd that there was just, you know, something different about it. And Lloyd agreed to take on the project and try to find out what was going on. And they thought it looked alien, so of

course they named it the Starchild. You know. He spent pretty much the rest of his life from that day forward investigating and researching information on the Starchild

skull, and unfortunately Lloyd passed away two years later. I'm speaking at Congress, and I'm talking about admissibility and the responsibilities of investigators to you know, kind of give the witnesses better than just writing down their statement, like, you know, take responsibility for the titles we accept and to make our goals admissibility or to meet a burden of proof, and to do that we have

to understand what evidence is and Scott's law, YadA YadA. Well, at the end of this, Melanie stood up and approached the microphone for the Q and A session and you know, said, ask me a question. She said, what would you consider the definitive proof of extraterrestrials on this earth? And I answered DNA, plain and simple DNA, And she says, well, I have some of that for you, and I'd like to talk to

you. And I think I joked around about would somebody please the duct tape this woman to the stage so she doesn't go anywhere, because you know, Congress there's like a thousand people there, like at least, if not you know, double that, so you know, to get lost in the crowd and try to find people is not as easy. So I you know, I kind of joked about duct taping her. But we met after and then

I found out it was a star child skull. Oh my gosh. It was like, well, I've heard of the skull, and I also knew Lloyd Pie, you know, spent sixteen years and devoted full time to this skull. It's so hard to take over someone else's work. And he so loved I loved him. Everyone does, and you know, to really understand

what they had and what was going on. And I kind of looked at the skull when she had it with her and she pulled it out of you know, the little container, and I'm looking at the skull, and I'm thinking, wow, you know, I actually think I could. I could do this. But there was only one way, and that was if I could start a brand new, independent investigation, completely separate of Lloyd's work.

I didn't want to stand on that man's shoulders. I did not want to, you know, use what he's done and kind of catapul off that, but also knowing to meet that burden of proof, it needed a new set of eyes and a brand new investigation with that any of that back knowledge. And that's how that's how we started m H. And so, what did you know about the investigation into the skull. And this wasn't a meant by the way, that a big hook for the conference because I didn't even know

that. I guess maybe I forgot. I'm sure you told me, but I didn't even remember that. You know, you made this connection at the conference, so that's pretty cool. But yeah, what did you know at

that time? Not much. I was very familiar with the image of the Star Child, but honestly I never paid attention to you know, what evidence they had, what files they had, you know, all I knew basically I was even wrong because when Melanie first approached me and said it was a star Child, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're the one who got the star Child after Lloyd passed away and she looked at me, she said, no, Chase, I've always been the owner. I didn't even know

that. So I had very little intimate nonedledge or you know, research data at all, which was a good thing that played very well in the end. So how did you go about this? I mean it was probably intimidating since Lloyd High, of course was known for this work, and he's essentially was associated, like you said, even more so than the owner to the

skull. What were your thoughts on approaching this investigation. You're right about being intimidated, absolutely, And you know, I just thought, you know, I'm going to tackle it like I do every other case, where you just start at the beginning. What do we have. We have a skull. What's the first thing I want to do. Well, I want to bring it to skull specialists and bone specialist and you know what did they have to say? We also know for a fact, an undisputed fact was this skull

is nine hundred years old. So I knew I needed to bring in the experts of anthropologists, archaeologist, osteologist and a lot more ist people, and you know, and that's the first thing we did, was we took it to the Osteology Museum because the first question I had was has this skull been compared to other skulls? And of course the answer was yes. But then we find out that it's only been compared to three skulls, and you know, I was like, okay, leave that over there. I never even

looked at the data until the end. I had no idea anything about Lloyd's conclusions to any testing or anything. And of course Carrie McClure very much a part of this very much a partner. She had no idea either, so that played to our benefit because we just went forward with our own direction. So the first stop we went to the Osteology Museum because it's a bone specialist. It's in Oklahoma City. It is a huge, huge museum. But in the back room they had over thirty skulls. Wow, yes, that

we're five years old, twelve years old. You know. Some of the claims to the anomalies on the Star Child. We had to compare apples to apples because we did learn that the skull was being compared to three other skulls, all of them within their forties. So if this skull was the size and legitimately five years old, well we had to compare the skull with other five year olds. So you know, we had over thirty. That was

very profitable trip for us. The other thing we knew was we had to have you know, the archaeology department and you know, really anthropologists to really dig in and look at this because we know it came from Mexico around Chihuahua and the Crystal Mind area, and you know, we we wanted to take this as scientifically as possible, so electron microscopic work was done at the Sealy Labs in Chicago, and they did an outstanding job because we're at this point,

we're looking for the red fibers and you know that rebar, you know all that fiber that is allegedly throughout the skull. And then and of course DNA was the next big test. But anybody that had a connection to human remains, human bones, dentistry, this skull was visiting every professional we could

put out there, and what was the consensus from the professionals. What we discovered was one no one ever thought the skull was anything but five years old, So that was a done deal, and of course it tested that way as well. Looking back once it was over, we realized that all the testing that Lloyd had done also came to the exact same conclusion. There was only one claim out of the hundreds that the Star Child could be older,

and that came from the teeth. And the person who remarked that he thought the teeth were worn down more than they should be for a five year old wasn't even a dentist. So of course we brought the teeth to the dentist. You know, these were all expert, the experts, the people that should be weighing in did We found next that we could not find any of

the fibers and that rebar throughout the entire skull. It was nonexistent. Again, found out that the starchild project on second and third testing never found it again either. We answered that question when the SIMS guys at the end of this looked at the older data and said, well, he knew exactly what that was. It was debris from dust and kind of that microscopic dust particles

and things. Because we have to remember that it's the skull is nine hundred years old, it's been varnished, mounted, stored, traveled, I mean, everything that could happen to this little skull has but the fact that the code of varnish would have soaked into the pores, pushing a lot of that debris and dust particles in the skull. That's what they were picking up,

you know. And of course the DNA our DNA results matched everyone of the DNA samples that Lloyd had tested from Trace Genetics, Bold Labs and Gary Nolan out of Stanford University. And of course we used the biggest probably the above

normal credentials nine hundred euros skull. We needed a paleon o DNA lab, people that specialize in ancient remains, not just any DNA lab, you know, like twenty one to meters right, So you know, we waited and the tests were done by professional palaeono DNA specialists and basically we got the same results. I was very proud of the fact that for the first time a DNA sample that we had taken also produced nuclear DNA. So now we had

not only mitochondrial with the mother, but we also had the father. And unfortunately it came out completely human, which all the other DNA tests had done as well. There is one claim that said that there was all these anomalies and you know that the star child had DNA they couldn't identify, and unfortunately we couldn't. We could not use that experts work one. His name wasn't

on it too. They never produced where these testing were done, what samples were taken, what was his process, And although I know behind the scenes exactly who this is, it wasn't even a geneticist. He's a virologist that studies line disease. Oh yeah, that's one unfortunate thing that happens in not just this field, that happens in other areas. And you know, quite frankly, I mean experts should know better. I mean we had this with

roswell slides and other things that didn't pan out. When experts who are experts in a certain field start to comment or make a quote unquote expert opinions about films that they're not familiar with that they're not experts in, and anybody should know, especially a doctor, you don't do that. I mean, you don't make claims. You send people to experts in those given fields instead of trying to, you know, purport yourself as an expert in a film you're

in, Harriet, you're not. Yeah, you know. And the biggest thing at the end is we came up with the scientific admissibility, which is it's done. And the reason it's done is because all of the past testing done by the Star Child Project in Lloyd Pye, a meant accredited people all

came up with the same thing. It's human And you know, so you know Carr, poor Melanie, you know, she was really upset by this, but I think in our heart she was just fulfilling a promise she made to Lloyd, which was she would finish the work, and people came after her like you know, she's you know, disrespecting Lloyd Pie and you know

it was ugly. I mean, people really went after her and the truth this was something he wanted her to do, asked her to do this, And I honestly think if Lloyd had the same access that we do today, and this is all very recent access by the way, you know, he would have pursued the same path we did. And but yeah, she took a lot of hits. The other thing is, you know, you also have a couple of those believers. Carrie and I were waiting for the blowback,

and we really didn't get any. We did not get a lot. We had two very negative comments and both of them were from fake accounts. So we removed the comments because we will keep anything coming at us, but put your name on it. We put ours on you know, put your

name on it. These anonymous trolls. I have no time for. Hence we wrote the report or wrote the article fake news, trolls and truth seekers, so you know, explaining you know that we're going to do that, but we have also put the challenge out that we would love to be wrong. Come on right, Aleandro, we're UFO investigators. We're looking for the

metal. We want an alien. We want to find this evidence. So for anybody to think that there wasn't total disappointment when we got these results back, don't know us at all, or how money and time and blood, sweat and tears people like you and I have put into this field looking for this, or how much money we personally invested in the star child. Of course we were looking for something else, but science didn't care what I wanted. Mm hmm. Now when you look at the skull, it's weird looking.

And what did you find out about that odd sheape? Well, you know there's one it's not cradle boarded. And two we don't believe it's hydrocephalic, which is you know, part of the explanation, but we did. Hydrocephalic is when you get an odd shaped head, or the head is much bigger and bulbous because you get water on the brain and it's where cerebrial fluids you know from this fine just accumulating your brain and will make your head much

bigger. And and you know, every every expert even when we presented it, said immediately it's hydrocephalic, and we had to study in and work with them and say, but go back and you know, read the the fine print of other things that are associated with hydrocephaly and that is not presented on the Star Child. And they actually, the scientists actually reconsidered and said,

you know what, you're right, there's other explanations. Unfortunately, we found two diseases that present the symptoms almost exactly, you know, one for one, shallow eye sockets, lower ears. Now we're not saying that the star Child had these diseases. We present this information as alien is no longer the only explanation for these anomalies. So, you know, because of course, my job was to determine the origins of the star child, is it human

or alien or hybrid. My job is not to determine the disease or is it down syndrome you know, which also have like shallow eyes and you know, lower ears and kind of that rounder, thicker skull and you know,

so that's basically where we went. We put our findings out there and really have people have been very kind and the accolades about sticking with that scientific method no matter what, because we would not speculate because we know as investigators, Aleandro, we don't have the luxury like a researcher to put in theory or to say, well, maybe it's just from the future or science is exact. And that is why, unfortunately, it's the only thing that's going to

convince anybody that we have proof. And if we don't stick with those that high bar and the protocols of evidence as we know it, we're done. We're done from the beginning. We have to do it this way. Well, you all did a great job, and I think that's what people appreciate is an investigation. Some research on this goed done properly. I mean you went to experts, You've got their opinion and their information. You've got several experts so that you can, you know, have more than one opinion.

And and so you did a great job, and you put together a great report on your work, and they can people can find that at and we'll put a link in the notes for the show, but it's the filled Reports dot com dot WordPress dot com. Yes, so that's where people can get

that report. Very well done. You have a great abstract where people who like many people who have difficulty reading our entire story they'll read a sentence or two and maybe hopefully a whole paragraph and have patients to read the entire abstract. It's just a paragraph to get a summary of the investigation. But yeah, job well done. And finally, you know, people can stop wondering

and know and move on and yeah, ye is going on. You nailed it, Aleandro, because there's so many other claims I have, you know, people reaching out to me, I have this other skull, or I

found this and you know, I think it's alien. Let's move on if this isn't the answer, you know which, Carrie McClure, much to her credit, I have to give her kudos for this because she found the origins, which is ridiculously almost impossible of a Native American group, you know, of nine hundred years ago, and that Native American tribe is no longer, you know, just there like the Apache or Cherokee, they were assumed by

the Maya. And it's just an amazing account that, you know, she ended up finding this group in that area that actually left petroglyphs in a cave, which is why we know about them. So you know, right now we're working with Mexico. It's actually Ruben Yuriata is helping Melanie Young because our investigation's over. Of course, you know we're involved, but you know,

letting Melanie repatriate these remains to where they need to be. And you know, big kudos to her because she went through a lot in this discovery. You know, she felt gut punched and you know, just really in tears over you know, some of the things that we would find out or revelations or you know, just seeing the skull sitting there being sampled again. It's just it needs to stop. This poor little this poor little guy, and

we know it's male Aleandre. You look at this little skull and the I remember my feeling the first time she pulled it out, and it was empathy. I felt sorry for him because you know, he's been on display and transit it. It's time to let them be. It's time to let this little boy be. I can just imagine nine hundred years ago, with the oddities of what we know just in his head. God forbid he had any other deformity or illness. Nine hundred years ago. It's not accepted like they

can't work, they're not productive. You know, usually they're left in the woods. You know. And also the female skull that was found with the star child that we know for a fact is not related. The concussion fractures we found on her skull were so numerous you couldn't count. You know, brutal life, brutal life. This little this little guys to rest. I have goosebumps right now. I get choked up because you know, this little guy's been through a lot. Well and speaking of moving on, you have

gone, you called though this isn't all the skull research you've done. You've actually gone to Peru and done some investigation of some of the elongated skulls. And I guess I don't want to speak for you, but in a nutshell, you haven't found, you know, any smoking gun of some sort of extra treasural relationship. But you have found some interesting stuff. Am I am? I corrected and what I've in the way I framed that just stuff.

Yeah, actually it was perfect Aleandro. They have I work with Eli Marzouli. He is the lead of a team that he puts together when uh, there are new samples or new opportunities to take DNA. We've done almost three hundred samples of the team, you know, and I and of course I take most of these samples. I kind of have the stuff. I have a I kind of joke and say, I have a friend a kid that would make the Sheriff's department jealous, and I know how to use it.

And but we get down there and yeah, a lot of DNA. We're learning a lot about the Parrakas skulls. Unfortunately, no nepheline. There's absolutely no alien that we found so far. However, we're finding out that they're come they come from the Middle East and they're fair skinned and red hair. What in Peru at that time, So a lot of the skulls you're examining are from the Middle East with red hair and they're fair skinned people. And

how did they determine that? From the Haplo groups. It's now that we could get the Yeah, the DNA, it's how we found this star child was Native American. And of course even though it was from Mexico, you know, back in those days, there was no border, so it was you know, just considered uh, Native American. And I have to tell

you that sent us into an entirely new direction. We were at stopped talking to the Bureau of Indian Affairs in Washington, d C. I mean, there was a lot of legal stuff because you're not to own, transport,

display, or profit from human remains, especially remains. So the elongated skulls, you know, are really providing a lot of information about not only migration, but it's almost confirming we're almost there, you know, a biblical levant, you know, when you know seventy tribes went out and you know, this is all before they should have had the proper you know, boats and ships, and it's just remarkable. But that's all led by La Marzouli.

I'm just I'm just I call myself the token eufologist and you know, and you know the forensic person that you know takes the samples and you know, sets everything up and takes care of the chain of custody because that is just as important, if not more important, than the sample. So with that is at a new discovery. I mean, were archaeologists aware that of this

background of these skulls prior to the work that you all did. No, this was something that was unprecedented and it did come from LA's work, and it led to a year later, the Ministry of Culture in Peru invited La back with his team myself included with Mondo Gonzales, and we were invited to actually visit their museum, and their museum curators picked out I think it was thirteen of their most anomalous skulls that have never been out in public, and

let us do DNA on all thirteen them. Wow. And right there was a moment when I stood there and I'm thinking, wait a minute, how how did a UFO investigator get here where I'm standing with, you know, the president of the Ministry of Culture and at their request doing their DNA And

it's because they don't have the proper equipment unfortunately. You know, we're standing there wearing clean suits and sterile gloves and you know, just all the wrap and they kept taking pictures and other museum personnel where you know, driving in throughout the day the photograph and they kept smiling CSI, CSI, you know, because we had a full clean room set up and you know, they they've never seen anything like that in person. Wow, that's pretty cool.

So and that answers the question because I think a lot of people would be like, well, why haven't they done this work before? But and that's the issue in a lot of their world countries or in the Middle East where there are areas that are rich, and South America especially they're rich in history, and of course it's all sitting there for anybody to go investigate, but politics and so many other things get in the way that it just doesn't make

it possible. Right, It is difficult working in Peru. We've gone to the necropolis in Changos. That's where we get most of the elongated skulls that you know, we're examining, you know, straight out of the dirt. We're not opening graves, we're literally finding them on top of the soil or the desert sand because the wakios or grave robbers, they're just looking for the jewels and the pottery and the Inca treasures, and the remains are just kind

of thrown up, you know, all over the place. But most of the parts of Peru you get out of Lima and Perakas and even you know Nasca area and and Coustco, when you come away from them, ninety nine percent of the area they're still trading, you know, lamas and machetes. They have no idea what a cell phone looks like. They're very curious about what we're doing. There. In fact, I was standing on a step pyramid with the mayor of Changos, you know, who's telling me about this

ufo that you know, right in back of the desert. You saw this green area and they have a lot of cattle in his village, and that's why they there was a big lake there and all the cattle would come and drink from this this lake, and this UFO kept coming and it took all their water. And he's upset. So after the interpreter, because my my Spanish was as good as his English, after the interpreter kind of fills me

in. I'm like, oh, do you want me to go take you know, samples of the dry lake bed, thinking maybe you know, trace evidence. And he looked at me and he's like, no, I want you to get the water back. And it hit me there are some cultures they don't need a DNA sample to tell them what's going on. He's telling me a ufo that everybody in his village knows about would visit and took their

water. He was hoping in his you know, lack of understanding of what I did as an investigator was more like, well, can you make sure we want our water? Back. When I told him what it was, I really did. He kind of looked at me and wondered why I was in Peru looking for UFOs, because don't they have them in America. So it was a big wake up call to you know, to realize that you UFOs in some cultures, it's just part, it's part of their belief system.

You know, they don't they don't need our fancy science. They've seen them, you know, they know of them, they've seen the beings, and you know they don't need us, which I thought was cool. Mm hmm. Yeah, that is fascinating and it's fascinating. And we know this about South America talking with some of the groups down there, how they have

such a different perspective. And there's a there's a woman she writes about negative Americans, and she's gone down to Mexico and spoken with Native Americans down there, and they have a similar kind of more open perspective, which is just so foreign to us here because of course, you and I and others always have to fight for credibility and to be taken seriously right right and I I were you talking about Artie six Killer? Yes, exactly. I couldn't take

of her name for us. Yeah, she is amazing. She's done some great work getting a lot of that oral testimony. And you know, it's funny when we're down there, Aleandro, because a lot of times, especially in the Bolivia area around Puma, Pucku and Tijuanku, they use the word watchers. They don't call them aliens. Clearly they're using the word watchers.

So whether it's a biblical narrative or you know, coming from a different solar system or galaxy and they're getting here on that full tank of gas and a red bull, it doesn't make a difference. They know that there's intelligent other beings out there. They don't care exactly who they are, you know, they believe that where they're from, that humanity is from this whole big scope

that we're just trying to get our finger into. And well, and watchers is a really good term, I would think, I mean, and that if of course we're being visited by some third party, that's what it am pairs they're doing, is watching, because it's at least not overtly interacting with

us apparently at this point, yeah, exactly. And when we heard the term watchers, of course, I'm with La and you know, he's very big and his work has to do with a biblical prophecy angle, you know, so he immediately jumped to the watchers of the Bible, you know, the fallen angels, and you know, we had to stop him and we had to say, wait a minute, let's make sure that's you know,

what they mean when they're using that term. And it came out that exactly as you just pointed out, not necessarily, not necessarily they were talking about, you know, those who just keep an eye out there. Mm hmm. So now that we're getting towards the end to wrap up, I want to kind of change the change the subject. But thank you for sharing all of this. This it's super fast, fascinating, and like I said, I knew the time went by, and it certainly has. But you know,

I've just kind of thought about something while we were talking here. There's a lot of sort of cynicism among UFO researchers these days, and I do understand it. I completely understand it. However, do you share that How do you feel about the future of this topic. I think it's I think it's bright, I think it's open. I think we are we are responsible for the future. And as long as we maintain our pace and that integrity

and we're treating our witnesses correctly and treating each other with respect. We don't have to be Facebook friends, we don't have to be you know, BFFs, having you know, Friday night together or at girls' time or whatever, you know, but the respect and it's okay to have educated debate. It is okay to have difference of opinion. But I kind of find that we have a lot of people coming in and they're already slinging barbs, and I guess, I guess. I don't want to sound mean, but I almost

don't have time for it because I'm busy. I'm too busy, and I've been busy for twenty something, you know, twenty plus years, almost twenty four years, and don't care if the grass is green. Are on the other side, I'm too busy to notice. I don't even know if there is grass on the other side. But I think there's you know, there's this need for people to forget that you can do this on your own. Ninety percent of everything I've done or that you've done, a Leandro is basically

we're on our own out here. We have a team, we have other people, but our work has to compliment and be part of the puzzle. And I kind of feel like these people feel like they're here, and a year later, if they're not speaking at conferences or on television, you know they're being shut out or I can't even put my finger on it. I'll be honest. Everyone knows I'm old and grumpy. I call them the Kardashians.

I want to be famous for nothing. And the truth is in this field, if you're going to survive work, treat each other with respect. Because I understand and also hear all the drama. You know, we have people here that have public opinion or like they have a personal side to them that none of us would ever accept in our home or tolerate hanging with this person and they belong to you know, move on or something like this,

and you know, you know we're going to take our hits. We're going to take a lot of hits, and we've had a couple tough years. But what I saw Aleandro for those of us with the passion that we don't care about the accolades. We're not looking for, you know, a pat

in the back. I'm not looking to make money. Shoots. If anyone had any idea how much we spent on the Star Child Skull or or the Arkansas Crystal Mind, or how much money you know, came out of my pocket, they would think we were nuts nuts And but you know, I'm I just think our future and being around everyone. Turning this full circle at Roswell. You know, I don't always agree with Linda's theories and some of the things that she says, and but I love her and respect her so

much because this woman was fighting for everything she's got. You know, she started back in the sixties where women weren't even allowed in a newsroom. You know, you have to you have to show respect for you know, where these people come from. Nick Pope. I love this guy. Mark the

Antonio and I go back and forth. We debate passionately sometimes, but we're colleagues and we're friends, and you know, as long as we maintain these really good relationships and understand that it's not all about a reality show calling everybody out on Facebook and pointing fingers and you know, calling for this and calling for that. I think if you want to be here, find something to

do. I agree with you one hundred percent. And that's a great way to put it, because, yeah, a lot of the people who are cynical are not the people who are just getting out there and doing it. And I think that if you're depressed about this field or about you know, the future of it, you know what, you just got to do what you said, go out and do something, because you obviously have work to do. I feel like there's an abundance of work to do in an abundance

of areas to research and investigate. Some of them may be fruitful, of course, often they turn out to be something mundane or not as mysterious as we had suspected, or maybe even hope, but there's plenty and plenty to do, and there's more discoveries to be found. And yeah, so I

don't have it as a cynical of you as those others. And I think you're right that if they're cynical, just go do some work, because then you're gonna make some discoveries that'll help motivate you and you'll be able to share your discoveries, like you said, with our colleagues and discuss and that keeps us all motivated and going. Yeah, and if you're too busy complaining constantly and not finding the work, leave leave. Don't let the door hit your

ass on the way out. Can I say that I'm sorry? But I get very passionate about the people that just do nothing, you know, like Philip Class and you know, think back on some of the people that did nothing but complain and ripe and moan and oh my god. And you know, I like skeptics. They keep me honest. But you know, I don't like the people that constantly feel like in their you know, eighteen months of experience, they're going to tell us what's going on out here, you

know, like with each other. It's just annoying. It's annoying, and you know, I don't have time for it, which of course makes me look like I may be elitist or uninterested in meeting new people. I'm just busy and I have no time for the drama. And those of us that really enjoy each other, none of us do. Aleandro, you don't have the time, Linda doesn't. Linda's not even on Facebook. Well I guess she is now, but someone else does it. How smart is that?

But no, I think our future is dead on. In fact, I believe that it is going to be one of us that pushes not disclosure confirmation. I believe science is going to do it. But I believe we are so close, Aleandro, I mean we really are. It's we're making a big headway. Our days of sniff and dirt are over. We're talking with you know, legitimate state of the art DNA labs, you know, observatories, every scientific community that once locked us out. Our doors are wide open

right now. Everyone's talking about UFOs, the Vatican, our institutions, universities, television, you name it. Everyone's talking and they're looking. We have what seventy year heads start catch up people, What do you need to know? We'll let you, We'll fill you in. Well, we are out of time, and such a great note to end on. Thank you so

much. I mean, I think that my listeners will agree your work is really important and you've done a lot of important stuff, and I just can't say how great of a job I think that you guys did on the Star Child thing. Of course, yeah, it would have been nice if it would have turned out to be something mysterious, But it's almost more important to me that there are people doing what you all did and showing that you can do proper investigation and how effective it can be to do the job right.

If you all did so, job well done, and thank you so much for the work that you do. Thanks Aleandro, it means so much coming from you, honestly, Well that is it. Thanks for coming on again. So it was a lot of fun. And I guess when one I see you next, well, Vegas. Yes it will be Vegas, because it turns out for reasons we don't have to get into. But I have

discussed how it was gonna skip out this conference. Not a big on the content so much, but actually, you know, we do do a trade with MUFON, and I've always said there's I'm never jumping move On people of that move On, But I just don't think that that's There are so many great people working at move On and everybody's heart is in the right place regardless of if we disagree on certain things. But they have a presence at Yoho Congress, which I love. I love having them there, and move On

is an extremely important organization, the most important organization in this field. And of course I'm a big supporter and lots of friends out there, so we will be out there to help promote the Congress and open minds. So yeah, so myself and my lovely girlfriend Karen will be out there. So if you're going to be there, come say hi at our table and you'll be able to see Chase too. Yeah. I'll be running around definitely, and I cannot wait to see you guys again. So I'm really happy that you're

coming, and that's what we need to do. You you don't agree with it, and you're you're coming anyway? Why because it's the right thing to do. There is benefit. We stand together as a field. We stand together, Let the date, let the debate begin when we get there, right well, and you know, uh, the leadership there who I have voiced you know, uh, my opinions to uh you know, like you mentioned earlier, it's important to have those working relationships where we can talk to

each other about what we disagree about. But it doesn't mean, you know, everything has to end. It just means that, you know, we discussed and hopefully move to uh hopefully we all learn together. How far do you go if it's my way or I don't work with you anymore? Let's see how long that lasts? Right? Well? Yeah, I mean, it's an individual thing for people to decide, but right that there are just a lot of wonderful people to move on, and you know they're all doing

their best. That's that's the whole key, is everybody's doing their best and trying to do what they think is right. Well, you brought ally on growth. Thanks so much, Thank you so much for being on, and I guess we'll talk to you next time. Sounds great. Thanks so what yep? Thank you? Oh sorry, one more thing. Websites that people should go to you to look at your stuff besides to move on dot com and the the Field Reports dot com webs that you mentioned earlier. It's Chase

Klutsky dot com. Very easy, and you'll have a link because my last name is ridiculous to spell, almost to figure out. So yeah, just just hit me up, guys, and you know, I'm really here for the people that are out there most important for our witnesses. So if you have something call me all right, great, thank you so much. Thank you so much to Chase for joining us on the show. Be sure to

check out that report. Of course, I've talked about it so much because it is so important, So check out that report that's really I mean, I just think it's a great example of the way an investigation should be done.

And you know, that's one of the things, of course, that gets me excited, and that's one of the things we try to highlight and why we talk to so many of these different people that we do on this show, because there are people who are doing really careful and thorough examination and that's the hard part, you know, I think that's the most important part. It's very easy to speculate. It's very easy to say, oh, you know, this must be aliens, that must be aliens. But it's

harder to go down and dig. And I think a lot of times people don't want to know, you know, they don't want their bubble to be burst. They don't want to know if something is not alien or something. So it's unfortunate that that happens, but that's the way it is. But we all have to be honest with ourselves and doing good destigation and try to

figure out the root of what something is. Because what's left over is a real mystery and they're in my mind and I think in yours, and that's why you listen, there is a mystery here and you know what, a lot of the skeptics that we hear out there also get so passionate about this field because they feel that there's a true mystery here. So that's really exciting, and I think at Chase for her work, and it's gonna be great

to see her this weekend. Of course, I did talk about how I wasn't going to go to the move On symposium just because the topics not really I don't think that's careful research. I think it's speculation and it's it's making extraordinary claims. And I really agree with Carl Sagan when he says extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and unfortunately, simply anecdotal evidence from a couple of people is not enough, especially when people are saying like they see Obama on Mars

and some of these other kind of really out there type of things. So that's why I wasn't going to go to the symposium. I'm not really as into that speculation and kind of loose way out there kind of claims that that aren't supported, and frankly, I don't think are that credible. However, there are a lot of great speakers out there, and move On as an

organization is a great, great thing. All of these people, even if I don't see Idi and who is speaking at the symposium or kind of what the topic is at the symposium, all of the people who put the symposium together and run move on have their hearts in the right place, and they're just like the rest of us, trying to find answers and trying to figure out what's going on in this field. And not only that, most likely some of you are going to the conference, and this is an opportunity for

us to see you. It's an opportunity for us to tell people about our conference and this podcast and our website that might otherwise know about it. So we'll be out there in Vegas this weekend. We'll have a table, So come say hi. If you liftsen to the podcast. If Martin or I have offended you or your country and anyway, be sure to let me know

so we can publicly apologize here on the show next week. Because I'm sure we offended somebody out there and what we were talking about earlier, So if we did, I apologize, and you know, come to the table and tell me about it, and I will clarify that I didn't mean to be such a jerk if I was, and so I could apologize to you for that and then commit to apologizing here on the show as well. But thank you so much to Chase. Chase is super awesome. Chase spoke last year

at our or no, two years ago at our conference. She may or may not be speaking at the conference this year. We haven't figured that out. But she will be helping. So she'll be a volunteer and she'll be helping out in the back. We're gonna have her carry heavy boxes and probably do lots of the heavy work because she's a tough little mama. But she'll

be around so you'll be able to see her and ask her questions. And I hope that from here on out she'll be coming and helping out with the conference because we have wonderful volunteers, and you know, we have a lot of people who are there every year. Stanton and Kathleen are there every year, San Friedman and Kathleen Martin, and then Travis Walton is there every year. And we do have ooh, this is a little bit of a sneak

preview for the conference. We do have a line and we'll probably have something really special regarding a Travis Walton event at our conference. Some people might be thinking, although we haven't heard this feedback, so I shouldn't be saying that, because people are usually really excited when we have something regarding Travis Walton at our conference. But we will be having something special regarding Travis, you know, and I know we try not to have the same speakers every year,

and we typically don't. It's rare that we'll have one speaker over and over again, but with Travis, we've had him quite a bit, but usually

it's not him alone. We add something special we've had at our conferences witnesses related to Travis with the Travis Walton case that no one else has ever had or that you won't see anywhere else, and we want to continue that because we are so close to Travis, and we've done so much with this case, and we have been able to speak to witnesses and people no one else has ever been able to speak to before, and of course we want them

to share their experiences with you all so you can hear from them because it's an amazing event. So we will have something special around that, I believe at our conference this year. We'll be opening up registration in the next couple weeks, and have some more information about the speakers at our conference in the next couple of weeks as well. So stay tuned to that exciting, exciting stuff. So, and if you don't know, I'm sure because you listen

to the show, you know you know who Travis Walton is. But if you've heard of the movie Fire in the Sky, just in case you're a new listener you're not aware, I like to be sure to make get everybody informed. If you've seen the movie Fire in the Sky. It was based off of the Travis Walton experience, this event that he experienced along with several of his fellow loggers in Arizona in the seventies. And this is something that's kind of crazy because they all saw this craft, you know, in the

forest. It beamed Travis. He flew many feet, they freaked out and ran away. They came back, Travis was gone. He came back five days later, and he had these incredible memories and stuff. So it's a crazy story. And the more I look at it and the more I get involved, I personally have not seen any holes in it or any you know,

evidence of deception. And I've been pretty close. I've talked to, you know, probably more witnesses than almost anybody has, quite frankly, because I'm so close to Travis and have been so involved with this and putting these different things together. So there's only a handful of us that I think I've talked to so many. In fact, one or two witness is, including the one we want to get at the stage, practically nobody's talked to before.

So really exciting stuff. It's going to be a great conference. Again, one of those reasons it'll be great, it's because Chase will be there. So thank you again so much to Chase for being on the show. I want to thank a couple other people. I do want to thank Race Hobbs from KGr A. He was one of the sponsors at the Roswell event and that was a lot of fun. And in fact, we're looking at doing a partnership where you know, KGRA will be hosting our show, which

will be a lot of fun. It's a great network and they do some really cool stuff there, so it'll be great to be part of the kg r A family. But you will still be able to get me all of the ways you currently get me, so don't worry, podcasters, you won't have to do anything different and you'll continue to get the show. You'll continue to have it show up in your podcast lists and everything, so no worries. It'll just be more people that it'll be available to, essentially, and

you know, partnership with some great people, so that's exciting. I want to think Caleb Hanks, who does the opening and close music. Of course, I want to thank Martin willis all the way out there in Russia, and isn't it amazing how clear he sounds. I mean, he sounds like he's here in the States as usual, but he's all the way halfway around the world and it's like he's here in the room talking to us. That is so much fun. It's just amazing the technology and how this all works.

It's incredible that we can do that. So thank you to Martin once again, and thank you for that wonderful singing. Who knew huh that was some good singing, I thought, so thank you. Thank you to Martin for being on the show wed again from podcast UFO to share some UFO news and to talk about some UFO news. And finally, you know who I want to think now don't you. I can see a couple of you blushing out there, getting a little shy. Don't be shy, little buddy.

I want to thank you because you are awesome. You come and listen to this show, and I cannot thank you enough for doing just that. And do please come and say hello if you're going to be at the mouf On Symposium, so I can thank you in person, because I like to do that and thank you for those who do that. And I usually don't have a listen Well that's not true. I don't often have a lot of time where it's just like, oh, great, thanks for listening to show.

It's so nice to meet you, and I'll try to make some time. But sometimes, you know, we get have some long conversations and really get to know each other, which is a lot of fun because you know, it's just guys. Uh. And I don't mean to be elitist or make you feel elitist, but the people who listen to the show are just some of the most incredible people I've met there. Highly attractive, I think I've said this before, highly intelligent, They just have a swagger. You know.

They are the bad mofos of the world that listen to this podcast, and so I don't mean to make a sound elitist, but it's just, you know, we can take pride in just what a cool bunch of people you are. You're cool dudes. Anyway, thank you so much for listening. Even though I'll be at move On, I'm gonna do my best and I think I will be able to do an interview and still have a show on Monday. That is my goal and I do not see that being an

issue. It should happen. So I will talk to you next week people. Until then, audios mood doutles the motion