Bryce Zabel, White House UFO Petitions

Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejundro Roja. Welcome to UFO News Hour with Open Minds. We've got a lot of great step for you for the new year. Welcome to twenty twelve. People, We've made it. I know some of you thought you wouldn't even make it to twenty twelve, let alone make it through twenty

twelve. That's another question completely. We'll see how we're all doing in a year from now and if we're going to be having a show. I have a feeling, though, this is my prediction that in three hundred and sixty five days, in one year from now, I will be here doing another excellent show with a kick. But guest, just like we got tonight, I think everything's gonna be all right. People, We're gonna be all right.

So there we are. It's gonna be a wonderful year, and we're starting it up with a bang because tonight we have Bryce Zabel on the show. And this is great because he wrote, of course, one of the White House petitions that just ended and unfortunately did not get enough signatures to move further. But we'll talk about why he decided to launch his petition in December, what he thinks about in the aftermath, about how it did, why

he did it, and we'll talk about others. And it's very interesting and fun to hear all of this because he is just a really great guy, very insightful. We're also going to talk about the UFO Congress coming up in February, because Bryce is going to be there speaking, And if you don't

remember, you know he's been on the show before. He's done things like working with Spielberg on the mini series Taken, and actually Taken had taken some of the ideas from a series that Bryce set it up called Dark Skies. Some of you are familiar with that because it included MJ twelve and aliens and abductions and a lot of the kind of mythology behind UFO UFOs in that television

show, so pretty cool stuff. We don't talk about this that this time because we talked about it before, but he'll be talking about that and more at the congress. And what's fun is that there's going to be a media panel some of the other people on that panel are going to be Lee Spiegel, who writes for the Huffington Posts, and also Ben Hansen, who was the star of the TV show Fact or Faked, who's also really into UFOs.

So we're going to get some insight from some of these media people who are working right now, you know, on big media, mainstream projects. How flippin' exciting is that? That's very, very exciting people. So this is going to be a lot of fun talking with Bryce today. It's always a lot of fun to talk with Bryce. We'll talk to him in just a minute, and of course before that, we're going to talk some news.

For those of you who have been following my tweets and UFO Daily News, you'll know that I put up my top twenty stories for the year, and it was hard to pare it down to just twenty because there's a lot of stuff that happened this year. So we'll talk a little bit about those or what was on there. But we're going to talk and we'll have some

shows coming up here this month. We'll be reflecting on last year in all of the shows that we have, I'm sure this month, but there's also been some news just in you know, the last couple of weeks, of course, because we weren't on last week. And we have this news correspondent dude who comes on the show and he's awesome. This guy is sweet. His name is Jason McClellan, and he is here to talk some UFO news with us. Jason, talk some news with us. Baby reading Zalajandro Win.

Hello. Everyone, this is your Open Lines News Briefer, Monday, January twod Welcome to twenty twelve. Let's start off with a story that would have kill and handy had I known about this when I was in college. But a student at the National Diversity of Tainan, a city in southern Taiwan, recently missed class for two hours. And while a student missing class isn't that strange, the excuse he offered is the student filed an application with the

school's administration to be excused from his December fifteenth absence. According to The China Post, the student listed on his application the reason for his absence as quote being snatched away by aliens. Quote. He alleged that he was quote held

hostage and taken away by aliens from an unnamed planet end quote. Surprisingly, the university approved the application the following day, words spread, quickly drawing the attention of local media, and following the media inquiries, the student reportedly filed an amended application, citing quote discomfort as the reason for his absence. This new application was approved by the school immediately quote, in order to put the

whole event aside as early as possible. The student has since stated that his original claim of an alien abduction was done for fun, but we don't know that for sure. Alejandro, Yeah, I'm glad he brought this up because it's kind of a funny story and it's so weird that this guy would do this and that they would accept it, you know, as as an excuse and so but he's kind of saying that he just made all this up. It so he doesn't believe he's abducted, is that right, right? He

said it was just something he made up. He was being silly and was surprised at the school actually approved it. But you know it, it's kind of strange that he would put he would offer this excuse so the school would approve it. That's even stranger. But then only after it drew a lot of attention from the media and he was getting he was getting questioned and bothered a lot, and to get everyone to leave him alone. That's when he

filed this amended application. But so who knows. He could have just been fooling around, but somebody could have forced him the change his so slorry too. Hm hmmm interesting, Oh here's some cool news. It's definitely cool to me. Tom DeLong, certainly best known for his role as vocalist and guitar player in the pop punk band Blink twenty eighty two, was on Coast to Coast. The accomplished musician, who also plays in the band Angels and Airwaves,

is a savvy entrepreneur as well. But in addition to being a musician and businessman, Tom DeLong is a budding ufologist. DeLong appeared on the popular radio program Coast to Coast AM on Sunday, December eighteenth. He discussed with host George Knapp his deep interest in UFOs and extraterrestrials, but explained that UFOs are much more than a casual interest to him. DeLong explained that he actively

researches UFOs and is done so for many years. He described himself as a quote armchair academic in the field of uthology and told Napp the story of how in the mid nineties, when his band Blink twenty two signed their first record deal, he took the very first check from the record company and bought a computer specifically to go on the internet to research UFOs. Nappan DeLong conversed for three of the shows four hours, and Napp lotted DeLong as a quote budding

ufologist. While it was Delong's first appearance as a guest on the show, he explained to Napp that he is a Coast to Coast AM subscriber and listens to the show frequently and certainly all the way back to when the show was

hosted by one of the show's founders, Art Bell. DeLong was a terrific guest in my opinion, answering questions intelligently, and he even provided listeners with a brief overview of stories and people who are being discussed, making sure that the audience had appropriate background information, because in addition to Coast regular listeners, there were a lot of Tom DeLong fans listening to the show for the first

time he appeared on the show. When he appeared on the show, that appearance illustrated how well read he is on the subject, and just how serious he is about researching UFOs. DeLong, in conjunction with his band Angels and Airwaves, recently launched a website, Strange Times dot com that features UFO and other related news not typically reported by mainstream media. The site regularly features stories by Open Minds, by me individually and Alejandro as well, and it's worth

a visit. And I wrote a story about Tom DeLong about his interest in UFO with last month and it is going to uppear in the February March twenty twelve issue of Open Minds magazine that should hit shelves in well later this month. Yeah, I mean we're always talking about this Tom DeLong and Strange Times, and we're always very excited about his involvement. We both like to wear his shoes and make batchhoe company. That's right. Mainly we both wear Tom

DeLong shoes. Yeah, he makes vegan shoes and wear veggies and animal dudes. But what's really cool. I'm happy. Of course, I've been excited because you've been pursuing an interview that hopefully you'll get here soon. But it's great that he was on coast to coast, so people start to know that about his interests because I think that's important, you know, one of the

things, and hopefully it'll be out tomorrow. I wrote a Huffington post on celebrities and UFOs because this year there have been a lot of celebrities talking about UFOs and it's kind of like last year, our last year, right, this year hasn't happened as far as I know yet, but it'll happen. Yeah, it'll happen. But I think that makes people more comfortable. You know, school or the life is kind of like high school, and it's like if the cool kids do it, then it's okay for everybody else to

do it. And you know, celebrities are the cool kids, and if they're cool, if it's okay to talk to UFOs, and UFOs are cool, then everybody's going to think it's cool and do it. You're exactly right.

We saw I think we saw plenty of that in twenty eleven. You're right, with a lot of the celebrities talking about their personal experience experiences with UFOs and or extraterrestrials, and a lot of it came out because of the flood of UFO related movies entering all these press conferences and public appearances talking about the movie, you know, some of the interviewers would jokingly ask the individual

actors and actresses, well, have you ever seen a UFO? And it would start the conversation and they would say, yeah, I certainly have, and they say you're kidding, right, and they'd say no, not at all, and it would open up that dialogue and people will go, oh, wow, he's not joking about this. I guess I can say I

saw UFO too, and people won't laugh at me. Yeah. One of the most fun when was last March when Aaron Eckert, the actor for Battle Los Angeles Jay Leno, asked him about UFOs and he shared his UFO siding and he didn't even ask Christy Brinkley, who was the next guest. She just came out and she was so excited. Oh my gosh, you guys are talking about UFOs. I've seen UFOs and she starts going off on her UFO siding. Right. Pretty cool. And the similar things happened with Sammy

Hagar. You know, during an interview they were interviewing him about his book He's really Cool. They talked about one part in the book and he said, well, that was actually something that really happened. What's cool about him is he doesn't share away. He is so brave. He's like he's not like, oh yeah, let's talk about something else. He's like, yeah, man, I talked to UFO, I talked to aliens, and I've

seen UFOs. UFOs are awesome. I mean, he's just boom. He even made fun of himself to this skit with on Jimmy Kimmel On Kimmel, Yeah, who is Jimmy Kimmel's little guy Guermo? Guermo I think with the alien in there. So yeah, he is just really bold and brave to just say hey, yeah man, UFOs. Yep. I have a video of that actually from your story because Doctor Drew spoke with him about UFOs. Yeah, that's right, and I put that on my top twenty stories on

the ufod Aliens dot com. But I do agree. I think we're going to see a lot more of that, a lot more people, celebrities and the like coming forward in twenty twelve with their personal experiences and opinions on the topic. Yep, cool stuff, man, yep. Well. In other news, in November, a team of astrobiologists proposed two new planetary rating systems

that could help widen the search for extraterrestrial life. We certainly talked about this new proposed these two new proposed systems on open Minds radio back in November. To refresh your memory memory. They suggested ranking planets on both an Earthly or an Earth similarity Index an e SI and a broader planetary Habitability Index a PHI.

And according to the International Business Times, the team of researchers has used their new rating system to develop lists of planets and moons with the highest probability of hosting extraterrestrial life, and on both of these lists, Mars ranked very high. On the e SI, Mars was the third or fourth planet, just below all of the or many of the GLISA planets. Remember we talked a lot about Gleiza five to eighty one g, a planet which many scientists

still debate whether it exists or not. But on the PHI the planetary Habitability Index, Mars came in second right beneath the moon Titan. And based on these list, life on Mars looks pretty favorable, and the year twenty eleven was filled with Mars discoveries. Recent findings suggest the presidence of flowing water on the planet's surface, at least seasonally. Scientists also recently determined that large underground

regions on Mars might be habitable. NASA's Curiosity Rover, the world's biggest extraterrestrial explorer, will reach the planet in the middle of this year and will search for signs of life. And while life might already exist in the favorable conditions on the red planet, one visionary here on Earth wants to colonize Mars. Elon Musk, co founder and CEO of SpaceX who we've talked about many times on this show, recently stated that he quote wants to put ten thousand people

on Mars end quote and that's according to the New Scientist. He reportedly went on to say, quote Ultimately, we don't really want ten thousand people on Mars. We want millions, and he claims he can do it for as little as two billion. Earlier this year, Musk announced space Xen's plan to develop a fully reusable space launch system. He stated, quote We've not gone beyond Earth's orbit in a generation. I want to change that. Rapid reusability

is what will take us to Mars end. Quote the SpaceX launch vehicle that could take humans to Mars is in the company is the company's new Falcon Heavy, which is scheduled for testing in twenty thirteen. So you can pack your bag, Dallejandro, because trip to Mars is right around the corner. Get your bot to Mars. Yes, my favorite movie, Not really, but it's a good movie. It's a funny, fun one. Anything with Schwarznigga's

fun. Yeah. Well, this is a story that several people wrote on you wrote a story about this, Alejandro, But it's a story about spaceballs, and not the mel Brooks movie, but actual balls from space. A mysterious spaceball was recently found in Namibia, Africa that was three point five feet in diameter and weighed thirteen pounds, and it hit the ground hard enough to

create a whole thirteen inches deep. The country's National Forensic Science Institute was baffled by the object, and similar objects have been seen in parts of Africa and South America. A pair of similar objects is actually on display in a museum in Argentina. All these mysterious space balls tend to cause a bit of frenzy from people, assuming the objects are some sort of alien vessel. They have

been determined to be nothing more than space junk. To be more precise, according to Discovery News, their composite over wrapped pressure vessels or COPV something that stores gases under pressure in a space environment. Any things are used on chips and the space station and various things we send into space. But you wrote a story on this, Alejandro, and Antonio Juneus, our colleague, wrote a story on this, and a lot of people were writing about the space

balls falling from space. Yeah, and that's what's great about you know, we had written an article not too long ago on it, or Antonio did, and so we were able to get some I put quote to my story from him, and he put his article in there from the magazine because this

is a new occurrence. And this thing looked exactly like what had fallen in many countries, including South America, and what appeared to be tanks from Russian spaceships, right, and yeah, Antonio had had something about this in the one of the Open Minds of magazines, and I'd actually Roswell on the Roswell edition. It was other kind of UFOs, things that were thought to be UFOs that had crashed like right, and there's one in in uh in Mexico

City. Jim Musan, the Mexican journalist, has one of these things, and I got to see one of these in person, and they're they're strange balls, these these weird metal balls that look like they've exploded, and they're very hard. They can't be cut through, so they they confuse a lot of people and certainly look foreign. But at the same time they look very earthly with all sorts of world marks. Right, But if you've never seen one, you'd definitely think that an alien left his ball behind. Yeah.

In other space news, scientists suggests soliciting the public's help to search for traces of extraterrestrial life on the Moon. Seti Institute has been searching for signals of extraterrestrial life for more than fifty years, but their search has been rather passive, scanning the skies for alien radio signals. Astrobiologist Paul Davies and research technician

Robert Wagner think a more active search is a better method. They recently published a scientific paper online in the journal Acta Astronautica that calls for the search of

alien artifacts on the Moon. This two Arizona State University scientists suggests that alien life may have quote left traces on the Moon in the form of an artifact or surface modification of lunar features, according to the Daily Mail, to search for signs of extraterrestrial life on the Moon, the scientists suggests focusing attention on

images captured by NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, the LRO. According to the Guardian, quote NASA has made more than three hundred and forty thousand LRO images public, but that figure is expected to reach one million by the time the orbiting

probe has mapped the whole lunar surface end quote they issue. Scientists explain quote from these numbers, it is obvious that a manual search by a small team is hopeless end quote, which is why they suggest calling on quote amateur enthusiasts to assist with the process of scanning the LRO images for potential alien artifacts. This isn't the first time that Davies has suggested taking a different approach to searching

for extraterrestrial science. In October twenty eleven, Astrobiology Magazine reported how Davies wanted scientists to broaden the search for extraterrestrial life by searching Earth for possible quote footprints left behind by extraterrestrial visitors, and Alejandro, I love this quote, so

I have to throw it in here. But a recent article on the Huffington Post accurately stated, and I think you and I have said this many times on this show too, but quote, despite being well studied, Earth's closest neighbor, remains an enigma. Right, Yeah, that's what's interesting. And now we have two orbiters or two that have just gotten there in the last

couple of days, so we're checking it out some more. I think we're you know, upping our stake on the Moon because China's getting there soon too. But yeah, one question people have about this story is that you know, it's disappeared Reviewed Journal, and it is. This is a scientific journal that this paper has gotten into. It's already been vetted and everything. You know, they've already done everything they do when they make sure it's a credible

article with good science, and it is going into the journal. So it's pretty cool to see, Yeah, scientists talking about, hey, we need to look for et ruins on the Moon. And I think you're right. I think because of China, we're having a renewed interest in the moon, which is great because we sort of abandon it for whatever reason. The Moon's cool. Man, I like the Moon. Well all one, Hunter.

I have so many more stories, but I think I'd better call it quits because we have a wonderfully or a wonderful interview that is a little longer than usual, so I will cut it short at that. And this has been your open Minds news brief. Remember to check out all these stories and so many more at openminds dot tv or source for UFO related news. And you can always follow me on Twitter at Acentric that's ace C E N t r I C. And you can also friend me on Facebook. Jason open Minds

edited for the news. I have Jason McClellan, your open Mind's news correspondent, and you have been briefed. Yeah, some people got confused because Jason has that open mind Facebook called Jason open Mind. Marine has been called Marine open Mind and people had asked if they were married, if they their were last names were open Minds, and that is not the case. They just made special Spacebook facebooks for open mind, so you are aware of how that

came about. But like Jason said, We've got a great interview with Bryce Dabele, so let's go ahead and get that rawing all right as usual, I'm very happy to be speaking with Bryce Zabel, one of our speakers at the upcoming UFO Congress. Hello. Bryce, Hey, it's good to be on your program. Alejandro. Good to hear from you, and I'm really looking forward to coming to the the UFO Congress. Yeah, that's going to be a lot of fun. I don't think were you able to make it

at least be there last year. I was not. I had a family commitment. So this time I get a two for it to speak and I get to attend, So that's really going to be great. Yeah, you have a great program there, and everyone after last year's everybody was talking about what a great success it was, so you're obviously doing something right there.

Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. And what I think is going to be especially fun is that we have, you know, a few people from the media and entertainment, and so it's going to be unique to have a handle with you and some of these other guys to talk about the media, some insiders like you know, we're going to have Ben Hansen from Factor Fake. So it's going to be great for people to get some insight and some Q and A to talk to you guys about media. I

look forward to that. I think it's one of the most misunderstood elements in the whole UFO and paranormal puzzle because so many different agendas exist in media coverage, not all of them favorable, some of them very favorable. So I think it's becoming a worthy topic of discussion in ufology for the simple reason that that's how people are spreading these ideas, and they're spreading truth, and they're spreading untruth through the media. So it's time for us to understand it even

better. Yeah. Yeah, So that'll be a lot of fun, partially because they're speaking to the media. I think that's something that people are going to need to understand when they're speaking the panel. We're definitely going to have you up there, Ben Hansen, and will have least bigel with the Huffington Post. You are media and you guys are doing your best to get information out. Of course, there's other aspects, like you were talking about,

there's people in the media doing a poor job. Well that's just it. There are people who are using the media to try to tell their truth or their story. And then there's the media itself, which is a whole second angle to it, which is what do they actually think is going on?

What are they willing to open their minds up to as a reasonable hypothesis for some of these things, And the two do not often meet in the middle, to be honest with you, Yeah, but then you have people like you being able to create your own vision, or Ben Hanson or at least Bigele They well, they get to share their experience about how much, if any, if they're held back at all, which so I'm really excited about that panel. You should be on that panel. We'll all probably moderated.

Oh that's fantastic, Yeah, because I think you have one of the best takes on how it all, all the pieces work together, and I hope that that will happen. But that sounds excellent. Yeah, So that'll be a lot of fun. That's going to be Sunday for people. Otherwise, lately, of course, you've been real busy in the last month promoting your We the People petition, the one that you and Richard Dolan had fashioned together and a lot of people supported, and what inspired you to do that.

Well. In October and November, Steve Bassett of the Paradigm Research Group had a lot of success with an initial petition when the We the People site went up on the White House, where he put out a petition that received the sufficient number of signatures to actually force a White House response, and actually caused the White House to raise the number of signatures that were needed to get a RIC spons fivefold from five thousand to twenty five thousand. But I felt that

Steve's first petition was fundamentally flawed in that it gave them a dodge. It said, we need to acknowledge an extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race. Well, I'm not sure that all my all theories lead to extraterrestrial And at the same time, it gave the Whitehouse a dodge for them to answer by simply saying, well, yeah, we are looking for extraterrestrials with SETI, and you know, with the Hubble telescope, we're discovering new planets, et cetera.

And they completely dodged the issue that there might be actually UFO is engaging us here on Earth. So I talked to my ad after disclosure. Co author Richard Dolan and we've become fairly close friends over the last period of time since we've written the book, and we talked about his petition and his success with it, but felt that possibly the mistake was it went too far, and we need a baseline petition that would not allow the White House to wiggle

out of a basic explanation of what seems to be going on here. So we created a different petition and put it out there, and it turned out that we had to put it out on December first because Bassett was going with his petition at that time. We didn't want to confuse people. We thought we'd put a couple of them out. If you don't mind, I'd like to. It's only eight hundred characters. May I read the petition so that

people know what we're talking about? Yeah, that's great. Okay. This is the petition that Richard Doldan and I crafted and put out on December first. It says we petitioned the Obama administration to investigate unidentified aerial phenomena as reported by citizens, police, astronauts, pilots, and the military. So that's the main petition thing. Here's the eight hundred characters that came underneath it, and it said searching for microbes on Mars and radio signals from space is not

enough. We must explain unidentified aerial phenomena or UAP right here on Earth. For six decades, worldwide, credible witnesses, including Presidents Carter and Reagan, have consistently described objects with flight capabilities beyond our technology. UAP are often verified by radar and even seen at nuclear sites by military officers. Given the national security implications, the United States should conduct an independent investigation. This inquiry must

transparently review the key unsolved UAP reports with access to classified documents. It must have the power to call witnesses and grant immunity. The findings should be publicly presented. So that was what we called the need to know petition and went up December first, or actually November thirtieth, and closed down on December thirtieth. Yeah, I think, like you said it, that's a much harder petition to answer than asking for an extraterrestrial communication. Because astrobiology is a big

deal right now. You hear that in the news. There's Chetty, there's NASA with Kepler, there's all this astrobiological stuff. They're looking for extraterrestrials, and of course if they felt that they had evidence that they had found it, they would well, who knows what they would do. But of course above board they would say, oh, yeah, you know, we would tell people about it. So it's easy just to say, well, there's all this astrobiological research going on, there aren't any EPs, but it's harder

to address the UAPs or the UFOs like you had talked about. Well, I think Richard and I simply felt we would hold their feet to the fire on this unexplained phenomenon and just say, look, it's not crazy UFO people that want to know about this. These are average citizens who had no knowledge of UFOs. These are police officers, they're your own astronauts from NASA. There's they're your own Air Force and Navy pilots, and there are commercial av

people who have seen all these things. So you know, don't make it about little green men and play the X files. Tune here, go tell us what you intend to do in the name of national security, particularly when military officers have testified publicly about their experiences with UFO's near nuclear sites. I mean, if we trust these people to keep their fingers on the nuclear trigger, so to speak. Why would we not trust them if they say there

are unidentified objects hovering near our nuclear facilities. To me, that's a national security issue, and I want my government to tell me what they think about that and look into it. Well. And that's the other great thing about the wording on the petition that you guys wrote is that you're asking not for them to come clean, you know, assuming that they know what's going on,

you're asking them to investigate. Well. I think, you know, makes a lot more central telling them to look into that because as we know from you know, Grant Cameron to work and other people. You know that the White House people in the White House Clinton certainly tried to get information. Doesn't seem like he was able to even that's what he says. That's right, and that's what Stephen Bassett's second disclosure petition addressed the Clinton White House.

We felt that one and that was the impetus to doing this again. I have greatest respect for Steve Bassett and understand what he's doing, but I felt the second petition was actually more difficult for the average person to understand than even the first one, and that it dragged in a lot of you know, it referred to OSTT, which is the Office of Science and Technology Policy at

the White House, without ever identifying what it was. It just had a lot of insider baseball in it, and we didn't think it could be become what it needed to be. So that's why, you know, sometimes I guess you have to be confident enough to say, well, I don't like that, so I'll put my money where my mouth is and try to do

something else. Interestingly enough, though, and this is just recently out there, Cameron has received a Freedom of information request denial of some of his requests, and one of the emails he got is from the person Phil Larson, who wrote the first response to Stephen Bassett's first petition, and that email basically shows that Phil Larson, a low level guy at the Office of Science and Technology Policy, catches the assignment of having to respond to the first basket petition

and he's given less than a day to come up with a final answer for legal clearance. Well how serious is that? I mean, come on here, the guy doesn't really have any real knowledge of the UFO issue, and he's not even given a week to look into it. He's given less than a day to write the answer, so of course he writes the most mealy mouthed, irresponsible and silly response, and that's what we have out there.

So I just feel like the whole thing is obviously has some issues, and in fact that you know here we are talking like the petition is still active, it's not. It failed. Both of them did. That's a second one and as did ours, although there are some reasons for its failure that we probably will discuss in the next few minutes. Yeah, I want to talk about that. But getting back to this email that Grant Cameron got about the Philip from Philip Larson, it is interesting because, like you say,

this is definitely telling. I think the whole thing is just some emails back and forth, and I think there's two pieces. This is a statement that I think is most telling. We got tagged with drumming up a response to please acknowledge aliens, and then he goes on to say, please look at this tonight because I need to submit it tomorrow. Like you said, you know, one day to roll this out. So obviously they weren't taking it

too seriously, and unfortunately the other petitions they answered that day. They group three of them together were the same thing. They just came up with an answer within a day to get that out. So it showed that this whole wee the people thing didn't seem to be taken too seriously. Well it's not, and that's sad, although it's still a useful tool. And again that's

something I want to talk about. But I do think that what that proved is just how can you expect a serious response and to give a guy less than a day for a final pass. The truth of the matter is Phil Larson should have at least been given a week if that was the case. And I just sat him down with Richard Dolan's to Find Books and Leslie Kane's Fine Book and locked him in a room for a week and said, why don't you read these first, right, and then after you have read those,

write your response. But instead he just had one day to do it. And by the way, his boss, who probably should have written the response and should have taken and it's seriously and should have been directed by the White House to take it seriously, obviously pond it off onto his underling, which is ironic because the guy that runs the Office of Science and Technology Policy. If you look on their website, actually says hey, kids in school, if you want to answer to a question, send an email to us

and we'll have the boss write you an answer. Okay, So the boss has the time to write an answer to school kids, which I think is fine. But to say that the boss doesn't have time to look into something that affects national security and all of humanity and could be the biggest story never told, that seems silly. It's just silly. Yeah, there's no other way to look at it. You can make excuses for them, and we know there's budget issues, etc. But it's just silly to take on a

topic of this magnitude in the way that they did. Yeah. Although another problem is and again, like you, I think it's great that Bascet jumped on this and got it rolling. He got a lot of attention, and that's great what he did. But a little bit of a missed opportunity here and the wording of his because they never had to address UFOs. Unfortunately it

was all aliens. So if they would have had to have addressed UFOs, I would think that it would be a harder one to address and then hopefully they would have had to have done some research like looking at or Richard Dorton. I completely agree with you, and again I listen as I've said, and I'll say it again. I have the greatest respect for Stephen Bassett. I just didn't think he wrote the world's best petitions given the political climate. And you know, and that's trust me. When Dolan and I did our

petition, we fussed over every letter. I mean we used every single letter in every word, and we went through draft after draft to try to make it the single clearest call to action that you can possibly have without dragging in all the the stuff that is used to marginalize ufology. And I think we did a really good job with it. But as I'm sure we're going to get into more, the White House site was probably inadvertently, probably through in

competence, plagued with problems, and both petitions fell short. I think there's a couple numerous reasons for that. One of them was I never wanted to go on December first. I felt these petitions should have been put out on January first, but Steve felt like forcing the issues, so we felt like we had to go. They were miss timed during the holiday, in my opinion, But worse than that. Worse than that was the fact that the

site didn't work. And for the entire thirty days that our petition was up there, we had dozens of people writing us every day saying I can't sign your petition, I can't get onto the site, and more often than not, when people came onto the site, they got a site under maintenance screen. When they actually got in and tried to sign on, they kept getting thrown out. It was extremely confusing. The site did not work and they

never fixed it, so I think that's really telling about their commitment. And then at the end of creating a site that doesn't work and people can't use to sign in on, they simply said, well, these petitions fell short. They've been archived. And I went to the archive today just before our phone call because I wanted to refresh my memory on our you know, the exact wording of our petition. And guess what, even when I press archive,

I can't read the petition. It just says this petition has been archived. Well, they don't want people to read the old petitions? What's up with that? In order to read the petition to you that I just read. I had to go to my own files and read it because I can't get it on the White House side anymore. The whole thing is just sad. Yeah, you know their response was silly and the execution was sad. That's how I look at it. Yeah, and just for the listeners,

So you know, I'll put this up at ufodailynews dot com. The I'll link to this Philip Larson email Grant Cameron received, so anybody can read it, and I'll put some more links out there, And of course I've sent it to you Bryce and Grant is. Yes. Another great thing about Grant Cameron is he sends out his information when he does these boyas to everybody, and he doesn't hoard the information at all. So I think you'd be more than happy if you posted that as well. So he's a terrific researcher and

we're very lucky to have his hard work all these years. Yeah, but I'm obviously a big fan of my buddy Grant Cameron. He's just a great guy. He does so much great work. Well, listen, and then somebody has to be doing that. It's not the easy, glamorous stuff. San Friedman's a friend of mine as well, and Stanton would not have achieved what he's achieved if he didn't have the ability to. You know, people think everyone in yourfology is trying to hog the limelight and all that. That's

all nonsense. It's in my view, and none of it makes any sense because people really don't know how hard these things are. When San Friedman, for example, this spend far more time sitting going through documents and sitting in archives than he ever has attending UFO conferences, right, I mean, the hard work of this research is unbelievable because most academics get to go to libraries where the only all they have to do is look through existing material for their

academic research. You follow just have to fight to even see the research, and most of the time they can't. I think this touches on another important fact and another benefit to the petition you guys put together is the team work. And sometimes that doesn't happen. And I think that's so important that I know, like you said, you know, I know how you and rich are you guys you know bust over the wording and worked on every word of

your petition and also reach out to other people to get opinions. I think that's another important aspect, is the teamwork, and I think that that has to happen more. There are some people like Stanton, like you mentioned, he's always willing to work with people. Yes, and he's another guy who I think is great, And I think that teamwork part has to happen. And you've got sponsorship from a lot of people too. We did, and

you know, one of the first things we did. Look, I come from Hollywood, where you know, in Hollywood, you write a first script and it's not done. Then you get notes from people and you incorporate their notes and you do revisions and so forth. So I'm quite used to collaborating with people, hearing their good ideas and trying to get them into the project.

So I've approached the petition the same way. After rich and I had a first draft of it, we shared it with you and probably about a half a dozen other people and said, look, help us make it better. What what's missing for you here, what doesn't ring quite true? What would you like to see Differently, We've got good feedback from everybody. We put it all together, and then we tried to create something that would have a odd spectrum appeal, because, as you point out, if if we

don't hang together, we all hang separately. On this one one question I have, and in hindsight, I should have said something. At the time that you showed me the draft. I was as busy and I thought it was worded great. I loved it. But it's one of these things that comes up, and I would love to hear your thoughts. Sure, maybe what your response would have been had I suggested this. I always think it

is important to include the word UFO. I don't know that it's hurt here, but if I would have said, you know, I think you should at least throw the term in there, just to make sure that people are clear what you're talking about. Would you probable? Sure? Sure we would

have I'll tell you though there was a debate on that. Oh, I'm sure because one of the reasons we didn't is we and we used UAP was to try to force the responder do not fall upon the old usual canards of UFOs, and for the very reason uap look like they're UFOs, there's no question, but they're also UAPs, and we were just very cognizant of the response that Bassett first got, which was to try to group things together and

try to not respond to them. So the argument that prevailed, and by the way, it could have gone the other way, and had U weighed in, you might have pushed it the other direction. But the argument that prevailed was don't give them that ability, and that those of us in uphology certainly know what a what UAP is and and but you know, I think it's a it's a valid point, and I think if we were ever to resubmit this petition, we would probably make that change. I wrote an opinion

piece actually, just like a week ago or two. I don't know if you got to see it, but I'd love to have you look at it at some point, and ifinitely think it's between Christmas, you know, that's what you just illustrate the problem. I read almost everything you ever read or set right, but during Christmas time it's pretty hard to read things, and so at the same time, it was pretty hard to sign things. So

we've been all damned by the holidays. But hopefully now that we're in twenty twelve and looking forward to the new year, we can all get back to work. Yeah, exactly. And actually I've been more prolific in the last few weeks because at work, you know, everybody's out on vacation. So yes, it's been really slow. So I've been able to do a lot of writing. But I wrote, yeah, kind of my perspective on the UFO versus UAP, and I see that the purpose of the UAP and the

argument there. But they could respond to your request and throw in UFO, and that would be a legitimate thing for them to do, of course, and that would have been fine. It's so hard to get rid of that baggage, and I think just changing the term isn't gonna Yeah, Unfortunately it's not. It's not, and it's a good point in fact, now you mention it. I did read that article of yours and I thought it was

I did, and I thought it was well well taken. And uh again, you know anytime you well, let me put it this way, as I said, when you're used to collaborating you The way I've put it this way is people say, well, when when is the movie done? The movie is done when it's in the theaters, and even then it's not done because the director's going to come in and do his own cut later or something. Right, so nothing's ever really done in the business I'm in, and

so I look at it the same way. This happens to be the first draft that went up, and the next one, if there is another one, will be the director's cut. If you will, you know that we continue to evolve the language so that it gets to be as perfect as we can possibly make it and leaves as little wiggle room as possible. Right,

And it's, you know, the teamwork thing. It is wonderful these days to have this sort of team and to have this collaboration because I certainly take onus in that I didn't mention in the UFO thing before, and I feel like I should have. But like you said, there's a part too that could come out. And I know who you talk to because me and Leslie Kane talk about this all the time. I know you know some of the

other researchers out there. It's a discussion that happens. But it's wonderful that we have at least this group of people we can call upon and have these civil debates about things and be comfortable with what the results are because we know that people like you and Richard, Leslie and some of the other least Peagle,

who I work with and talk with a lot. We all are working towards the same thing, and all of us have our hearts in the right in a similar place, and so it's wonderful to have these people you can trust and call upon. What's interesting also about Leslie Kay, she was a strong voice for UAP, which is odd because they're books as UFOs and the

title but there are just just there. You know, this is an issue I think in retrospect I probably lean more to the UFO now that I give it more thought, for the simple reason that when you work again in the entertainment business, you're not about changing behavior as much as you're trying to give people something that they can understand and enjoy and participate in. So therefore,

having terms that are obscure don't help you. So, for example, when you title a movie, it doesn't usually do you any good to title it obscurely. The better thing to do is to title it as exactly as it is, or look at to get search engine optimization. On a web post, it's better to put the web to say exactly what you want to say in the web post, rather than a bunch of obscure comments in I'm talking

about the headline. If you want the search engines do it, so I think probably that would be a change that would be made in the future. Yeah, it's funny because I know if I put UFO in a headline and I try to always fit it in if there's anything to do with UFOs, it's going to get a lot more hits. Yes, I'm sure that was a was a mistake, although I want to just point out it makes no difference in this case. I think I don't think it was an effect.

Anybody in the world couldn't have gotten twenty five thousand with the site that doesn't

work. I maintained both of these petitions would have crossed the twenty five thousand thresholder at least had the ability to do it if a they had not gone on on December first, and b if they had had a site that people could effortlessly register at and sign But even with those two things going on, the reason I'm confident that it's possible to get twenty five thousand signatures is that there's you know, tens and tens of millions of people worldwide to have computers

and Internet access who also believed that the UFO phenomenon is a real one and needs to be investigated. So I think the base to sign it was there. But there were two other institutional reasons why people don't sign these things, and I think it's important for us to recognize that for the future. The first argument is that people that don't trust the government already are very leery about the opportunity to register their name and email with the government. So there's a

lot of people that just say, I'm taking a pass. I don't care if I believe in this petition. I'm not giving the government my my name and I'm not tying my name and email to a UFO petition. So there's that. And number two is people that don't think that a UFO petition, even if successful, will cause anyone to create an investigation. But if I could just take those on for second, I think they're both relevant feelings.

But let's take the last one first. That people don't think it will cause the government to do an investigation, so why bother That's not the issue. I never thought that we would file a petition, get twenty five thousand signatures and the US government say, well, thank you for that. Now we're

in investigating. No, that's never going to happen. But what we're trying to do is move the ball down the field, if you will, so that the mere act of this very well written petition, getting twenty five thousand signatures and requiring a response forces the issue into the public domain a little bit further, and it causes our own government to say, well, people are starting to wake up to this reality, and we're you know, at some point we need to be given some thought to this. It's just a marker

on the road to success as opposed to the end result. And then as for people who don't trust the government, I can't really say much about that other than if you believe in UFOs and you think, I don't think you have to worry that the government is going to hunt you down because you signed

a petition about UFOs. They're probably more worried about a lot of other things like that, so I don't worry to And besides which, let's face it, if the governm or anybody wants to target you in today's technology area, the fact that you signed or don't sign a petition about UFOs is irrelevant. If you're on Facebook or you have an email address, right else, we know, we know what the investigatory capabilities of various institutions are, so I

sort of felt like that's not as big a deal. I know it is to some people and they didn't they didn't have to sign but for most people, it's not the biggest deal, right, Yeah, I agree, And that's going to be my next question on some of the factors, because I certainly, you know, saw responses on your Facebook and other places, and I received them whenever I would send out my tweets and facebooks. Is that yeah, that they wouldn't do anything even if you got your signatures, or

you know, they're just going to lie to us. But I think it was really exciting. I was not sure if the signatures would come just because of a couple of things. But I think it's is important to try to seek a response because it would be interesting too. A petition worded more like yours that's around thea UFOTH or the UPS. They may even open up the

door a little. I think we sometimes we're too skeptical and that there are scientists who aren't interested in this, and they may say, I mean, it's an unknown but we don't have the resources to research it or something. All andre the very brevity of these petitions is the success of them. Like, for example, let's just take one sentence out of this that said, UAP are often or that could be UFOs up are often verified by radar and

even seeing at nuclear sites by military officers. That's one sentence sentence, right, Okay, I'm the guy at the Office of Science and Technology Policy. It is not relevant to cite setting to that objection, right, It is not relevant to talk about how we've discovered planets fourteen light years in a way

that's not relevant. You can't respond to that sentence that way. So if you're going to have to respond, you're going to have to respond to the fact that UFOs are often verified by radar and seen at nuclear sites by witnesses who are military officers with their fingers on nuclear triggers. Okay, what would they say to that. I'd like to hear our government talk about it. And even if they even if they say, I don't know what they would

say. That's why I was most interested in saying it, not that not that I necessarily thought that, you know, twenty billion dollars was going to be devoted to an investigation. I just thought it would be interesting to see what the guys who currently exist in power have to say on that topic. Yeah, exactly, it just would have been more food. Look, it's information we are We are trying to gather information that leads to solutions and understanding,

and you it's an incremental thing, you know. So for people who say it won't cause them to investigate, well no, not by itself, it won't. And in fact, maybe the biggest usefulness of the petition isn't to the government, but it's to our understanding of what it is that we're trying to say and collaborating to figure that out and trying to understand where the

government comes from. Because to simply dismiss the government or anybody in charge of this management of this secret which is being bad people who are out to you know, conn the world, and you know, I suppose there is some evidence for that, and I'm not going to get into that. But on the other hand, I personally look around here and see more ignorance than I

see malfeasance on at least the surface level of our government. So the people who are ignorant, I'd like to see how, you know, Phil Larson at the Office of Science and Technology Policy probably has not ever considered that UFOs that are verified by radar have been seen at nuclear sites by military officers. He's never given five seconds of thought to that. Well, guess what he should and if he had to and had to write a response, anything he

said would be pretty damn interesting. And for example, this is the thing that I just I mourn about the law, the technical obstacles, and the timing of the petition so that it did not require a response from the White House. Is that? Imagine if we'd succeeded and today, in twenty twelve, our petition had succeeded, in Bassett's petition had succeeded, and the Office of Science and Technology Policy was busy crafting a response, and we're about to

have primaries in Iowa and New Hampshire, et cetera. This would be in the news. And if I was a journalist, you know, the most journalists but I am a journalist, by the way, But if I were a journalist covering this campaign, most of them are arrogant and don't believe about anything about UFOs. But they also most journalists are liberal and don't like Republicans, So what would they do. They'd want to embarrass somebody by asking them

about UFOs. So yeah, so, in fact, the whole UFO topic could have been injected into the presidential campaign and would have at least that would have been interesting in itself. You know, what, what does Mitt Romney think about UFOs? Yep? I mean I really don't know. And for him not to be asked, He's asked about everything else. What's new? Gingrich think? Duke Gngrish is unafraid to say unpopular things, as we all know. I mean, he and one of the debates started talking and they

said, what are the two things you fear the most international security? And he said a Iran with a nuclear weapon and be an electromagnetic pulse detonated over the United States. How many people are talking about EMPs. Okay, that's very brave of him. I mean, I don't care what you think about his politics or whatever, and but that's very brave to talk that way and still be a credible candidate. So you ask a freethinker like this guy what

he thinks about UFOs. He's liable to say something really interesting. But the problem is he will never be asked right, And I think that's exactly what's so why the whole point is that asking is important because we don't know. We assume, oh, these guys aren't going to pay us any attention. They're the enemy the mainstream science that, but we don't know what they're going

to say. And what's great about reading the first sentence that you have here again, searching for microbes on Mars and radio signals from space is not enough? Is that? Mainstream scientists, you know, just recently, and I wrote this on Huffington Post practically said the exact same thing just recently, saying this isn't enough. We need to look at photographs of the Moon to see if extraterrestrials have left any ruins there or indications that they visited. We're not

so far apart, No, we're not. And by the way, that sentence, thank you for quoting that sentence. I remember sitting up one night about three in the morning, you know, working on this thing and saying, I wanted it to strike an economical pre emptive strike, if you will, on the banal approach that was used in the response to the first petition, and I needed to swat aside the easy answer, so by telling them, don't tell us about microbes on Mars, don't tell us about radio signals.

We're not interested in you telling us about that. We know about that. What we want you to respond to is this. And I think that's again, the petition process allows you to narrow it. Now, whether the petition process is you know, the White House made obviously, as you point out, isn't, isn't giving it a lot of credibility. It's more like a public relations ploy right now than a true anything else. But on the

other hand, that doesn't. That's okay, that's okay. I accept that, and I accept that they probably wish they had not put this into place because it's probably a big headache. And I accept that I am part of their headache. Right, Well, let's let the games begin, That's what I say. Well, and it is a bit disingenuous, unfortunately, to put this site up. I know this wasn't. I read the history behind putting up the weed of people, and it was one person's idea that everybody

thought was a bad idea. He wanted to do it prior to I think Obama even coming into office. And then eventually they finally just kind of humored him and let him put it up, and now they're kind of regretting it, it seems, but it is disingenuous. But then there was another disingenuous kind of effort that the Obama White House put forward. And I'm not afraid

to admit and I'm gonna do this right now on the show. I don't know if I should, but I'm going to say I'm an Obama fan so when I criticize them, you know when and Bassett jumped on this too. They put forth like this little book, signed the signature book, and tell us what's important to you, and the president, the new incoming president will address these things. And a lot of the top topics were similar to here. Marijuana was a big one, you know, some student loans. There's

also a big push. Actually one of the big ones was for mass transit across the country, which makes sense to save on power and echological reasons. But UFOs got up there and they kind of cherry picked, you know, and just address the ones they wanted to. So it's unfortunate and it is disingenuous and just looks like more political rhetoric to put this up and then not pay much attention to it. Well, I think part of the problem is, Look, I'm an Obama fan too. I know that's you know,

people are domaining for your neck out there with me. I tend to think that the President Obama knows he doesn't believe in UFOs and he doesn't think it's worth his time to think about him my take on it. And I think he feels like I've got a lot of other problems and there's nothing I can do about this. And I don't think he thinks it's real. But I would love to have raised his you know, his knowledge of that. And I think a successful a couple of successful petitions being covered in the news,

that would begin to start. Yeah, and I think he does respect Clinton. I mean there are similarities. Of course, he's got Hillary as is number one when it comes to which is a big deal of the foreign affairs and so yeah, like you, you know, it'd be great to pose the question. One of the issues that also I think kind of hurt this round of petitions is, as you know, every story has I kind of think of it as an energy and media story. You get some momentum and

it doesn't last very long. It's a short window it may spike and get really big, but once a couple few days have passed, it's over. That's why Rich and I argue passionately with Steve Bassett. We said, please don't go December first, because for that very reason, we just felt like there are ebbs and flows and it was too soon during the wrong time of year. But he was adamant. We even reached out by the way to Steve Bassett and said, we know you want to do another petition. We're

not wild about the one you're circulating. Would you work with us to create a new one, And he didn't want to do that either, So you know, listen, that's totally his choice, and he's an activist of great Merit, so he has his own image of how it needs to go. But it would have been nice if a we would have postponed till January first, twenty twelve, b the White House site would have worked, and see

the UFO community would have come together with one single petition. That made sense because you know now what's happened, and it's taken kind of the wind out of my sales. I'm seeing people that really have no chance to get these signatures just writing petitions because it's fun, right, and you know they're going to get a couple hundred of their friends signing them, and they're not written

well, you know, and that's the problem. Richard Dolan is an excellent writer, and I like to think I'm an okay writer because I've at least made a living doing it all these years. And we just felt like, look, we got to take this level up. This has to be so artfully crafted that the people who want to dismiss it can't dismiss it as easily. And I still think that that's still how I believe. Yeah, I

agree with you one hundred percent. I think that teamwork aspect is so incredibly important, and I hope I know some people kind of felt it was and us are as them, and I never framed it that way. I framed it like you. I told people, Hey, you know, sign both. If you love what Bassett's doing, you know, does you can sign

both? Go well, I totally agree with you. I never, you know, my arguments were with Steve Bassett were behind the scenes and among colleagues, you know, but we never a publicly disparaged him, nor did he

us. We I always felt like a rising tide raises all both, so I thought I actually, once Steve made it clear he was going to go ahead with his and he was going on the date that he was going, I talked to Rich and Rich really had you know, he wanted to go later, and I did too, but I just said, let's let's go now because maybe the controversy or the competition, if you will angle between two petitions, we'll get more people talking about it. So that's kind of how

we went. But again it turned out in retrospect to be the wrong time with the wrong technical website. So we'll it's down time for planning B or C now, right, yeah, yeah, so which might be I mean, like you said, because you are media savvy, of course you've got lots of stuff going on during the holidays, but you do always have that, you know, as businesses call it, that first quarter kind of lull where things slow down I mean all over the place, even with sales and

everything. It's the worst quarter for for retail. Usually things slow down in January and February, so there's definitely some room for we'll see what becomes big stories, but there's some room for something like that. So hopefully from my own my own personal thing, though, Alejandro is I'm a little bit I'm a little worn out by the petition. In other words, I gave it my all. I mean, right, oh yeah, yeah. We have considerable resources, and I did everything I could to allow it to become viral,

and it didn't. So I don't know that I have the stomach to immediately go with that over again. I know that Steve Bassett's going to go with his again exactly as he had it worded before, and again I think that's a mistake. I think if it would be better to join forces and definitely confirmed that the White House site works again and can go later and right now, I'm retraining my firepower, if you will. The other in other

areas, your Twitter campaign was like nothing I've ever seen before. You're tweeting your your are out there. Well, you know, I just I just said, look, we well, first of all, Richard Dolan had set up our infrastructure to promote our book a d after disclosure, which there's news on and we'll get to in a second. That infrastructure of the website and the Facebook page and the Twitter account, we're all in existence with a lot

of support and traffic. So the day that we filed it, we in essence rented out the ad disclosure real estate if you will, to the petition, and we changed everything from promoting the book to promoting the petition on all three sites. Immediately. They've kind of reverted back now that the site, now that the petition is not live. But we said that we thought that was a real benefit that we had that we already had. We weren't trying

to build something from the ground up. We already had a lot. Like we know, we have thirty five hundred or whatever likes on our Facebook page. So that's nice that if those people would have each gone out and got

five people, we'd have a different conversation right now. It's just hard to get people to do something, and it's double hard or quadruple hard when they're trying to do something that technically is incredibly challenging, which is what the White House website turned out to be. Yeah, speaking of your site, getting out a light subject and I want to go over these because they are so funny and they're so smart that I think they they deserve some attention before they

get lost and Okay, and obscurity here, but the kind of cartoons that you guys put together. They were so funny. We I hope people can visit the site and see them for themselves. You can get to the site two ways. It's of course it's afterdisclosure dot com all run together, but it's also Disclosure petition dot com. Either one, I'll get you to the site. And what we did is this is this really is I guess this

goes more to my you know, commercial entertainment, Hollywood slash thoughts. But I just thought, look, when people do you a bad turn, you don't necessarily attack them. Sometimes you make fun of them. So we thought, let's try to turn humor into this thing. And so we took a lot of news photos of the from the campaign and put cartoon balloons with them to show what the campaign would look like if people actually passed this petition.

And it became something that was happening in the in the daily news and was in the campaign. So we the I guess. So we have, for example, uh, you know, Bill Clinton making a speech in one of them. We have a Barack Obama talking to the guy from Science and Technology Policy. We have New Gingrich talking about aliens, and it's a very it's A. It's a it's a new thing. I don't think I've ever seen anybody do it quite like this, So I thank you for bringing that up.

And maybe, uh, while you're putting your links up, there's a maybe put the permol up to just that post so people can see those cartoons themselves. Well, and I'll do that. And the other thing is that I think was brilliant because I'm I'm a real newshound and I'm following politics and the news closely, and you got you guys did a good job of getting the voices of these characters. I mean, it's as if like this this

one with Herman Kane, I love it. It's I may not be able to find Libya on a map, but I sure as hell I have heard of Roswell Arizona. And someone off to the site says mister Kane. Roswell's in New Mexico. No SII, young man, I'm pretty damn sure that's

Arizona. That's one of my favorite ones. It's called fact check. And we just thought, you know, Pete, that this is what rich and I have always said about disclosure, which is, you know, you think yes on one level, it's the biggest story of all time, but it will still be It will still be processed by politicians and media and average people

in ways that are very recognizable. So if suddenly UFOs and aliens became a part of a presidential campaign, you'd still have people getting their facts wrong right and making up things and being and talking about it in debates. And so

we just tried to capture that. And but the nice thing about it, each cartoon by itself and then in totality kind of tells a story and paints a picture of the world that could be right and that world that could be Alejandro that I think why you're responding to it is we know that you don't immediately go from where we are now to a world where everyone knows everything.

There will be a disclosure day, as we point out in our book, but that disclosure day will be preceded by in all likelihood, I mean, we don't have a crystal ball, but in all likelihood it will seep into the public conversation in a bigger and bigger and bigger way until then there's a disclosure day. So we were trying to create that interim world, if you will, where people could see how it begins to seep into public dialogue right

before disclosure, and I think we probably we probably did nail that. Yeah, well, you know, this campaign is bunny enough these days. I mean, there's lots of comedy that's generated from what these guys are saying. But that's what's great. Like you said with your book, you guys are taking you know, a scenario what would happen, and trying to put the real world and match it up to what may happen and give plausible ideas.

And that's what I think another reason why I love these these comics because they they mirror what, just like you said, if this story had blown up and these guys were to be making comments or discussing this topic, it's probably Yes, I'm alert to real life what might be happening, and there would be money scenarios like this. We hope so, And thank you for giving it a little push, because this is I just feel like it's time for

us to you know, these are all professionally produced. They look really good and they're not. And by the way, they're all protected by fair use, so in other words, nobody can you know, force them to be taken down. They are they are the expression of political opinion and they're protected by the fair use done so, so it's all kind of good and hopefully as we begin to use these tools, that's really helpful to the process.

And when I said, I'm I may be dialing back my direct activism as a sponsor to petitions in favor of, you know, going back to my what I think I do best, which is I'm a creator of things, and I think I need to do more of that and leave the active, the hardcore activism maybe up to others and give them the material if you will, to take it forward. And that's kind of what this was trying to do. Yeah, I want to read one more too, and I wish

I could do impressions. I can do Reagan, I think a little bit. But that's about it. Yes, very nice. But I also love this Obama one because it's Obama. It's a dream scenario. Obama talking to doctor John Holdren, who is the Office of Science and Technology Policy Director, right, and Obama saying this UFO petition got over twenty five thousand signatures in

the month with a broken website. I gotta say something, or Newt will And then of course John Holdron's thinking how about saying you're firing the genius who came up with the the people, and you got to think that's probably what they'd be thinking. And then you know the types of discussions that would be going on if if is what we thought. And here's the other thing.

This is the kind of thing. Okay, the petition in success would get on a few people's desks, But we know people are trolling the internet and passing around funny things. It's not impossible that that cartoon that you just read out loud gets sent by one of John Holdron's friends to himself, right, and he reads it and he goes, that's pretty funny, and then he thinks, wow, but that's also pretty professional looking, and that's interesting,

and it's not impossible. Like like the you know, maybe it wouldn't get on Obama's desk, but I could see the new Ingrich one being circulated around his campaign. I know, the herm Caine one. Sadly he's not in the campaign anymore for us to have fun with. But like you know, the one we did about the debates with Rick Perry and Mitt Romney in it, that could easily be sent to either of those guys campaigns and make the

rounds and they probably have a good time with it. Yeah. Well, and talking with Grant, you know, because Grant when he does these boys, he's spoken with some of these people and he says that sometimes, you know, he's come across where some of especially AIDS, have taken some of these things and posted them or put them around or printed them out and putting them at their desk, you know, because they're funny. So I think that, yeah, it's another great way and that's where I love and I

think it's important with interfacing with these people that right. I think, by the way, I want to just point one thing out to your listeners. If all of these cartoons are available for them to download and send to anybody they want. In other words, were they We're not protecting them. They're not protected, so you can right click them, download them to your computer and send them to your friends. They're also all collected on our Facebook site

under the photo section and you can download them there. In other words, we're not being precious about them. They're meant to be seen and people are free to send them to whoever they want. Mm hmm, yeah, really cool. Were a lot of fun. Well, thank you for recognizing that

that's that's great, and uh, we do. Those They were created the first I run another site called moviesmackdown dot com and we we sort of innovated these with publicity skills that the studios put out for their movies and they work so well over at movie SmackDown that we thought, well, let's let's adapt them for the whole you know, the whole petition thing. And we put those on and they seem to be doing very well, and it clearly here's

how we look at them. The ones on SmackDown and the ones here on the disclosure site are both editorial cartoons. They're in the same lineage as the old editorial cartoons that you might have found in the New York Times in the eighteen hundreds. You know, it's protected free speech done about people who you know, speaking truth to power. It's speaking humor to power. Basically.

Yeah, I've seen the SmackDown ones too. Those are really funny. Well yeah, I mean, that's just the thing trying to find and I guess we perfected it enough we had SmackDown that we felt like, okay, we get it. So instead of using publicity stills, which we do at SmackDown. Maybe we'll just grab the most recognizable photos from the campaign and see what we could do with those. And boy, it just thank you again. It worked like a charm and hopefully they will have as much trash and over

time. I may keep doing those because I think they're just so fun. And I'll tell you what, I maybe we'll do a couple of new ones for your own side. That would be cool if you want. Oh, that would be great. I mean I love these. That would be so thrilled. In fact, I'm thinking about that now. I need to put some links and stuff for my site because these these can't get lost people. Well, i'll tell you what we'll do. Well, you know, right now they have the petition, you r l on them. I'll pull that

stuff off and just leave the titles on them. We'll send you a fresh copy, and we'll leaven do a couple of new ones for you that only you can have, and then that'll be our gift to you for the new year. That would be amazing, Thank you so much. I mean, you're welcome. I love these. These are great, so and before I guess we've talked the heck out of this petition thing. So let's talk about

because you're you're doing a lot of others. Well, first of all, I have a piece of breaking news that I could not have told you yesterday on December thirty, first, perfect, but that I can tell you today. Richard Dolan and I, as you know, are the authors of ad After Disclosure, which came out from Keyhole Publishing in late twenty ten in a hardcover edition. That edition has received enough interest that Career Press, which is a major publisher in New York, has picked it up and is issuing a

new national edition in May of twenty twelve. It will be in all the Barns and Nobles and everywhere, and it's been revised and updated and there are new there's new references to things that happen in twenty eleven, and so it's all coming out and that will be hitting the stores in May of twenty twelve.

And we're very excited by it because it gave us a chance to dive back in kind of as we said, you know, do some editing, fix a few things, straighten out some of the chronologies, and just basically make it better. And they've been very cooperative. We've added photos to it and the photos are not your normal photos. They tell the story of disclosure in these photos. And we've also, as you know, between afters, we had these faux documents from the future, if you will. Those documents

have all been word processed to look authentic by the Career Press people. So as a visual thing, it's quite a new edition and I hope people will like it and enjoy it. And you can see the cover of the new edition on the after Disclosure Facebook page. It's up there right now. Right. I was looking at that and I was thinking that that looks really cool. That looks different. I'm like, yeah, how did I miss that?

This will graph? You know, you didn't see it for a month because we had the petition up there, And now that the petition is gone and it's January first, we were able to put that back up. Now. The bad news is we can't sell the old hardcovers through Keyhole for another five months. Were kind of going dark and then people but people can already on Amazon and other places if they choose to pre order the new version, and it's obviously cheaper, it's not hardcover, and we think it's going to

get a lot of traction. We're very much enthused by the chance to get in there and roll up our sleeves and make it better. I mean, that's my thing. You can always make it better. We made it a little better. We did some editing. We actually took words out of it, which may seem counterintuitive, but the words that are in there count a little bit more now and they're just a little it's just a little cleaner read

than it used to be. And I'm excited about the graphics because one great thing about the book, of course, you're a master of fiction and bringing and entertainment and so creating. That's what's great about the book. You have this based on facts, based on what may happen from fact, from the real pat creating this possible future, and those pieces, those mignettes like you were talking about you put in with these documents and fo documents really brought you

into it. It made it so fun. It really brought you into this futuristic world of a after disclosure. And so to see those even you know, perfected, that's really exciting. It is exciting. And hopefully it won't end there. When I said I'm kind of I want to kind of return to my core business. There's a lot of ways to tell the truth. You can file petitions, and certainly we did, and that's that's run its

course. I'm kind of trying to get back to my you know, in my own wheelhouse again and do the things that I think have the same game changing capabilities as a successful petition might have had, and maybe even more so. But the things that I've done historically, which is right, movies and television series and and and now I guess even this, you know, this cartoon format, and so this next year, you just there's two things on the horizon, but one of them is very big, and it's the Magic

Menu screenplay. And we talked about it last time we talked, but for the people who haven't heard of it, it is Magic Men. M a j C. Is based on the life rights of both Stanton Friedman and Don Schmidt, two men who have both independently and together investigated the Roswell case. And it also is based on the options to their two books, Stanton Friedman's

Top Secret Magic and Don Schmidt's Witness to Roswell. So we're taking the two pieces of research that they've done and their two life stories and blending them into a film that if it is made. The script is very good and getting better. If it's made, it will be a groundbreaking and game changing kind of screenplay. And I don't think I've been as excited creatively about something that just works as a screenplay in a long time. So this is really exciting

to me. And we're moving ahead on that. And also this I hope to make some progress in setting a d up in a television or feature arena as well, because, as you point out, the thinking about that future is very visual, and there's only so much you can do in the book form. I kind of think it needs to go into the next form, the next expression, which would be TV or film. Cool. Yeah, that's exciting the Magic Men because really one thing I was even just thinking about

this the other day, how enormous the Roswell meme is. You know, out of all of the concepts and ideas that we think about, Roswell's huge. It's one of the biggest around the world. People get an idea when they think of Roswell, and so it would be great for people to see how it came about. You know, this thing is it's that's why it's a game changer, because it's sort of like watching JFK the Oliver Stone film. It's got more humor than JFK in it because Stanton and donn are very

interesting guys, right, wonderful characters to play with and so forth. It's a little bit like All the President's Men meets JFK with a little more humor in it and UFOs science and science. But by the end of it, you get to it and you go, well, heech, why was it that this, this giant story wasn't investigated by Woodward and Bernstein? Why did it come down to Stanton Friedman, a nuclear physicist, and Don Schmidt,

who was a postal clerk at the time. Why did it come down to these two guys that had to go investigate this story, especially when as you see through the movie just how major this story is and how much evidence exists to prove the the euphological version of it. So I think it will be a major thing, and we we have certainly big plans, and this will be the year when they, you know, I hope to be able to make some kind of announcement about who are you know, what our plan will

be about taking it to film? Awesome? Yeah, And like you said, I mean President start talking about it. Hagar Matel is out there, you know, that's right, very vocal about the whole thing. So it's

a big, big deal. And one other thing that I'm wrapping up right now is I've also optioned Stan Friedman and Kathleen Martin's book Captured about the Betty and Barney Hill case, because I think that's another story that was so important and yet obviously it got made as a TV movie in nineteen seventy five based on not the full information. And also, look, it was just a it was TV movie fine for its time, but it's not what we can

do now. And I think it's very interesting to tell the story of Betty and Barney Hill, and to tell it in a way that we would tell a movie these days. I'm certainly compelled by the fact that in nineteen sixty one, when Betty and Barney Hill were abducted in New Hampshire, they were an interracial couple, a black man and a white woman. The only people in nineteen sixty one who probably didn't notice that they were a black man and

a white woman were the people who abducted them. Yeah, well find that pretty compelling. Yeah, and it's another case I just posted yesterday my top twenty stories for the year, and one of them was the plaque that the state of New Hampshire put up for Betty and Barney Hill. I think it shows how credible they were as people and how respected they were as people.

And also Kathleen Martin is the perfect champion for this subject to see herself is so down to earth incredible, you can relate to her and the story. So I agree, it's another An's been very helpful and she's allowing me to review all the family photos and all her files, and I think we're going to be able to bring a new spin to it that obviously it could really

benefit from. I mean, it's a very documented case, but it have been documented in film other than that one attempt in seventy five, which was low budget television, and right you know, if you watch it right now, it just doesn't really hold up that well. And I think I think there's just a new way to take this material on and and I look forward to doing that as well. Awesome, Well, yeah, Kathleen, it's

a great treasure. And you know what, how lucky we aren't really thinking about you and your involvement and this whole subject and how lucky we are that you know, you're you're moving forward and moving and shaking things and you're here and making things happen, and that's great. So I want to thank you for everything that you're doing. You're doing all some great stuff and we're we're running out of time. So was there anything else you needed to mention?

Well, no, I just wanted to say that. I well, first of all, I appreciate what you just said, and and you know, in terms of making things happen, I just want everyone to understand there's always setbacks, just as the petition was a setback, and maybe some maybe Basket will pick up that standard and carry it forward. The same is true in television and film. It's just it's because it's a collaborative medium, and because it's expensive to make TV and film, and because of all these issues.

It's it's never as simple as saying, well, we're shooting on June twelfth. You know you can't quite You got to you got to put the coalition together to make a film or a television series. In the same way that the people who are listening uh and want to be activists in the whole area need to also build coalition. So I guess that's the message of the whole of the whole hour that we've been talking. Mm hmm. So thank you much, and I look forward to sending you a few of our of our

disclosure cartoons for your site. And I thank you for awesome well, thank you, and I'm so excited to see you again in February at the Congress. I'll beat there. I'm working on a new speech I've been giving one over the years called or for the last year rather called life after Contact. And even though that's my topic or the title, I'm trying to add some new material that brings into play all these things we've been discussing. Yeah.

Yeah, it's always fun to be at the conference to have you know, your group of people around and to be networking. And yes, and I'm always busy running around like a chicken with my head cut, but I could usually carve out some pieces of time there, so it's going to be cool.

I have one other thing about your conference then, Okay, even though we can't sell our book through Keyhole, I do have a number of the hardcover collector's editions, if you will, then I'm going to bring with me because I can sell them at the conference and we'll try to make a good deal for everybody to get those in the hands of people who want a collector's edition. Sweet. All right, well, thank you so much for being on the show. You have a wonderful week ahead of you and we'll talk

soon. Thanks very much, see you. Yeah, all right, thank you Bryce for being on the show. That document we talked about with the emails from the White House and mister Larson talking about putting together the answer for the et petition. I will have that up on a link to that on UFO Daily News in just an hour or two, so you can go to Ufodailynews dot com and find that it's written bry Grant Cameron and I'll have that link up soon. Also join us next week. We have a great show.

We've got Reuben Juriarte and Noe Torres of Roswell Books dot com and they have a new book called Aliens in the Forest and this is a really crazy California et experience that happened in sixty four and we've got clips from the witness and just a real crazy thing. So you're definitely gonna want to check this out. So I will talk to you next week. People don't forget to check openminds dot tv for the latest in UFO news. Audios mouchatos do