Hello, and welcome to Open Mind Guofo Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I am here with my good buddy Martin. Funny dude, Willis, Oh god, you know, I think we've said this before, but I funny dude, I absolutely have no idea what you're going to say. Yeah, before we say it in verse advice. I don't think
you know either, a lot of times I don't. So you can hear a pause at the beginning often because my brain is formulating something and uh so those gears are you know, the mucked up gears in my brain aren't kind of spitting something out, and that's what comes out, you know, just like those old computers where the paper comes up, meet me, met meat. It's a little paper comes out, and that's what it is. Funny guy, because you are making me laugh before the show here. Yeah,
well, thank you with the awkward. And we're geeks. We're UFO geeks and like I always talked about, geeks invented awkward, and awkward is cool. We and geeks own it. You know. Yeah, it was going to come around eventually, and you know, by Gaully, I'm glad it has. And you know how I'm an official authority on geek them. You
know why. You know why, I know why, but I'll tell the audience because I am now officially a writer for Den of Geek and people are like, well, I've never heard of Geek and maybe you haven't, but probably a lot of you into sci fi have because it's a very very popular geek site that mostly covers entertainment and of course sci fi and all of that cool type of stuff, but they also want to cover more UFOs and more
space science. And as some of you may know, I've been writing space science stuff for the last few years and I've been able to go to you know, NASA facilities and interview astronauts and stuff. In fact, tomorrow I head to Minnesota to speak to Scott Kelly. Actually three AM is inviting me and some other press people to show us kind of some of the science they're doing. And the keynote an art. Yeah, the astronaut who spent a year in space, and I'm going to get some one on one time with
him. He's he's like the second I don't know how many people have spent extended periods at the moment, but he's well, it wasn't there a woman that spent like six hundred days or something. She's combined cumulative six hundred days. So his was in a stretch the longest. Yeah, yep. And it was essentially to study the effects on his body. So it's very interesting step. So I'm super excited, and you know what I'm gonna Shit, don't tell anybody, I'm going to try to slip in a question about aliens
and UFOs. Yeah, wow, I'm gonna do it. So I hope you do. And my guest I told my guest for the show today this that I was gonna do this, and he gave me some great suggestions on kind of if he seems kind of sketchy, you know, he might not want to go there, how to ease him into it, which is a great idea. So this is I'm going to make it happen. So assuming they don't cancel and he can't do his one on ones with us, but they've already got it scheduled, so it should be good. So I'm super
excited about that. My story on Denna Geek, the very first one, should be posted at any moment now. It is about the rekindling of the space race. And if you're like, well, what do you mean, how do you know that? It's because Harrison Schmidt told me show so. And Harrison Schmidt was one of the last men to walk on the moon. He was part of Apollo seventeen. And I asked him. I asked him
about this question and he told me. But I also have a lot of other information that demonstrates, you know, how and why we've gotten here to this brand new space race to the Moon. Great. Wow, I can't wait. And also I can't wait for your interview. I hope he doesn't, you know, dodge the question. If you actually get to ask him
here, he may, but we'll see. And I don't want to put him in an awkward position, and I don't want him to say anything he doesn't want to say, because I know sometimes they're a little skeptical or they don't they were a little worried to go there. But I've asked other people about it, and I've written about that other astronaut, so a lot of times they have fun with the topic. They like to talk about it, and it's and it's a different world after December and the New York Times story,
and that's a lot of the subject of my interview. So, oh, I should get to my guest. My guest is the wonderful Bryce Sable, all right. So, and I've had him on before, in fact, not long ago, but that was before the conference, and I had him now because he was actually on coast to coast for just a few minutes. I thought he was going to be on all night, but I guess it was just a few minutes. And that's not necessarily why I had him
on. Although we do talk about this, because you and I talked about this last week, how he created and wrote the series called Dark Skies for NBC and Art Bell played a cameo, So we discussed that, which was a lot of fun how that came about and all that sort of thing. But I also talked to Bryce about the New York Times article, essentially because Bryce wrote a book with Richard Dolan called ad After Disclosure. So I wanted to talk to him. You know, are we in a kind of a
little bit of an after disclosure world? And you know, given the thought he put towards he and Richard put towards the book, his insights regarding this, and it's a fun conversation, very interesting conversation. He was wonderful. He was a great guest as always, so very excited for the show today. Right, one of my favorites, Prices, so highly intelligent and yet a super nice guy. He is. He's a big time Hollywood right if you if you go to Facebook, he's hanging out with stars and everything all
the time. Right, amazing, amazing and down to earth. As I say, very down to earth. You're exactly right about that, as you are about many things, my friend. Thank you, sir. But getting to the news, so UFO news, that's what you're here for, buddy, is to talk about some ufone news. And before the show you talked about well, really there isn't any UFHOE news this week, and there's not a lot, but did you find something? Well, I thought I would
talk about. It's more, you know, like the possibility of searching for extraterrestrial life. So not really about UFOs but anyway, it's about hypersaline lakes that could help for the search of extraterrestrial life. And it's a group of international researchers have discovered what they believe to be the first isolated hyper saline subglacial
lake in the world. And this was a news study published in the Journal of Science Advances Reports, and the team came upon these strange formations which sit between eighteen hundred and twenty five hundred feet beneath the Devon Ice Cap in Canada after looking at airborne radar. It's great with this new technology that was acquired by NASA and the University of Texas Institute of Geophysics to analyze the bedrock conditions
below the cap. Pardon me, they weren't actually looking for subglacial lakes, but there they were. And this is really something because they're down below the ice and they are actually lakes where you would think that it would be, you know, still frozen. There's they find a you know, liquid water
and this is saline water. So the newly discovered lakes are important because they act as a habitat for microbial life and it could help scientists understand how life could exist in outer space and that could definitely apply for some of the moons that we have in our you know, in our galaxy, I mean our
Solar system. Actually we have some ice covered moons. So although you know, it's nothing that was actually discovered as far as microbial life there, they're just saying there could actually be a possibility that there are, and I don't know how they'd ever find out, but I thought it was kind of interesting anyway. And you know, what does a microbe do that far down for all these years? Because they would have existed for one hundred and twenty thousand
years. H sounds pretty boring. And how do you get down there is a question, because I did see that story, and I wonder, you know, how do you get down to get a sample without contaminating and exposing then that link to our atmosphere into you know, all of the little critters that could go down that drill hole. I wonder how they plan to do that, Yeah, because you can actually certainly can drill that far down without
any trouble. But you're right about that because as they're going down, how can they keep the drill bit from carrying you know, contaminants down And maybe we don't want to know what's down there? Maybe not? Yeah, I never know if it's come up booky through the drill hole. Yeah, I mean it could be some kind of little critters like I haven't seen this show life, but I kind of get the gist of like this little kind of thing that comes up and kills people. It could happen. That would be
awful. If NASA drilled down there and some kind of critter came up and killed people, I'd be very upset with them. Yeah, I mean, what do you do? In fact, put a plug on, that's what you know. There was news last year about hiring this planetary protection agent, and they did hire someone, and a lot of people were like, is
this going to be a man in black? You know? There were a lot of jokes and speculation and a lot of stories were generated from this, and they thought it would be like the Men in Black, you know, But of course that's not what the job was. What the job was is for this to make sure that we do not contaminate other planets and vice versa. Because I guess that's far. We've done a very bad job of that.
In fact, we've done such a bad job that if we were to find a microbe on the Moon, there would probably be some scientists and technically they would they would have some ground to stand on who would say, that's probably not life from the Moon. It looks so much like life from the Earth. It's probably in contamination from the Earth, and it'd be difficult for us to say otherwise unless it was very different than what we find on Earth.
Yeah, good point. So we could have like a monumental moment turn into you know, still not actual proof really yeah, and we've had that. So for instance, that meteorite that was discovered when Clinton Mars came out, Yeah, the one from Mars, and Clinton came out and said we've discovered life elsewhere, and then it got debunked. There are still scientists who
argue, no, that still could be a microbe from elsewhere. But many scientists were saying, well, we don't know that that meteorite wasn't contaminated once it got to Earth, that could be Earth life. And some also argue it doesn't even look like a biological evidence anyways, that it could be some sort of mineral or something like that. But there are some scientists who say, nope, that to them, they're convinced it is evidence of life from
elsewhere. Yeah, I'm sure it will be debated. M hmm. That's what we do. We debate, people debate all day along. So got any other news. Well I did poke around and I saw, you know, a couple of other things, but just not in the sightings in the way of sightings, except you know, I think things that we may have discussed before about the sighting in New Jersey, which is just lights in the sky. Yeah, I didn't see anything really out there. Yeah yeah,
not a whole lot of stuff on sightings. But I have something that is exciting, at least to me. So I unfortunately have not been able to have a whole lot of conversation with lou Alizondo recently. I know he's very busy. I've had a little bit of back and forth, and we're supposed to talk some more soon. But the last time we did email back and forth, he said, check this out. We're making some good headway.
And it's along the lines of what I have spoken about before, which is people are like, you know, why aren't these guys, what are they doing? Why aren't they talking to you? Followed just why aren't they doing this? Why aren't they doing that? It's because their main goal is, like Louelsander said, he left the DoD because they weren't taking the UFO question
serious enough. But luck since his news has come out in the New York Times and elsewhere, there has been some more serious thought to this and some exciting kind of progress. So my next UFO story that'll be coming out soon is going to be about what he showed me, which is this political story.
So last week there was a space conference and it was in Colorado Springs, and I do mention this in my Dent of Geek story that's coming out today, which it just so happens that that's where Space Command is and US Air Force. Actually Space Command does exist if people don't know, actually Stargate took place in Colorado Springs under Cheyenne Mountain, the not the conspiracy Stargate stuff,
but the television show with mc iver. But and that's why because you know, Nora AD's there and Space Command actually is headquartered just outside the gates there at Peterson their for space. But it was there was a lot to talk about space warfare and everything. However, in Politico talked to a someone who advisesn't the National Space Council, and the National Space Council is actually an old concept that was revived by Trump to advise you know, him on space.
And one of the advisors was asked, you know, should we be talking about UFOs maybe or or no? Just as are you guys going to talk about UFOs at this conference, and she said no, but maybe we should. She said, essentially, if there are things buzzing around in the skies that we don't understand, then we should take a look at it.
They also asked a couple other representatives who were there, some congressmen, and they said, yeah, we should be looking into this, maybe we should have some hearings, and maybe we should be funding some sort of In fact, this one representative, Amy Barrow from who's a Democrat, said, look, I think it's fascinating. We don't know what these phenomena are. Obviously it's important enough to allocate some funds, and we ought to talk about what
we can talk about. So it's just amazing there's this kind of real openness to this whole idea of UFOs. And of course it's trying to figure out what these unidentifying craft are, not necessarily with the assumption that they are extraterrestrial, but that they might be foreign however, you know, human developed foreign technology. However, it seems that these guys are open to the idea that
it could be something else, you know, something possibly otherworldly. But what's interesting is typically, you know, there's some sort of tongue in cheek joke about this topic. But these are very serious people at the most serious kind of event regarding space that goes on, and they are talking about, Yeah, maybe we need to talk about it, maybe we do need to allocate some money. And that's extraordinary to me, it is. That's really amazing.
M that's great. Hey, you know, when I was poking around for UFO story today, I came across one of these news websites that had a survey and they basically said do you think UFOs are a sign of alien life? And the top one was yes, and then maybe and then no. So I'm looking at it and I'm thinking instead of just doing my first initial click on maybe that's what I wanted to do, I thought, well, I'm sure the this is a really really low so I clicked on yes.
Ends up there was like eighty eighty nine percent said yes or something like that, and it was like only ten percent said maybe. I was shocked. What is this site? I don't even know where the site was, Like, I visited a whole bunch of sites and it was just a regular news website and they had a UFO story. So that was on the site. So's some regular, kind of conventional mainstream Newsay. Yeah, and then
the no's were really low. So but it was like seventeen percent for no or something like that, and the maybes were I mean, I was just shocked. I thought most people would say, maybe, see that is fascinating. And that's the topic of what we're going to be talking about for the rest of the show, is that I feel things have changed. You know, there's a different people seem to be okay talking about it now, right, and who knows where that's going to lead, you know, I mean
it. I think what will happen too, is we're going to start hearing about old UFO incidences that people have, you know, encountered, that have kept it quiet. I think there may be some people that may feel like it's now time to talk about certain things. Mm hmmm. And I know possibly some people I agree with you, and I know some people will get frustrated by this, But I think it's really the case in that some people are like, oh, no, we need to check their work. We
need to know everything they know. We need the files, we need to know how the videos got released from the Department of Defense. We need the files as to what you know, their investigation included. We need to know this and that and this and that because we need to verify what they did. But I think that that, well, that's great, and I agree that that's important, and I hope that we have access to this information at some point. I think for a lot of people, they feel like,
who is a bigger authority than the Department of Defense. They are a big deal. And if they say they did a thorough investigation and this is what their conclusions are, then that's good enough for me. And I think that's the difference that a lot of people feel that way. There was a lot more talk earlier about wanting information, wanting details on this, this or the
other, but that's kind of faded away. But what hasn't faded away is this idea is that it's a legitimate phenomena, a legitimate mystery that is worth credible discussion and credible observation or at least thought. And that's a very very important takeaway, right you know. I think some of it can harken back to the Chilean you know, cepha Ha when they had their UFO sighting and they announced it unfortunately ended up being you know, the jet heat signal from
fifty miles away or whatever it was. So I think there's people that are out there that are going to say, hey, that happened. Let's let's be real careful and see what this is. I think that's what why we're getting that type of blowback. Probably. I think you're right, and that makes sense because Cepha Odd, at least in that one case, and I think in a couple of cases honestly got it wrong. They didn't. They didn't do you know they did. They got it wrong essentially, and that's
unfortunate. But I believe personally the Competcha case in Mexico, if you're familiar with that, the air Force released some stuff to him Mussan saying, hey, we got these weird lights. I think that they got it wrong.
I think very quickly there was a researcher. I know there's a video out there I've written about, and you can go to Open Minds and you can put in Campeche and you can see Ben McGhee explaining the case and kind of the debunking of the case very thoroughly that unfortunately it was these these flames from these oil fields. Oh, that one. Yes, I mean he thoroughly. He demonstrates that to no doubt. And even I was skeptical, just like I get with Mark D'Antonio, you know my like, yeah, right,
you figure it out, Sure you did, there's no way. And then he shows me what he did and how you know the facts, and puts it all together, and they're like, ah, okay, maybe he did figure it out. And that was the case here. I even was like, yeah, right, Ben, we'll see it. I'll see it when I believe it. And I was able to be there in person when he did this talk that in Vegas that you can see online on our story, and sure enough he breaks it down and he tells it he got it.
Then I found out a Mexican researcher had already done that, but well, I know we're almost out of time, but I thought there was actually some radar evidence on that. No no, okay, no, no radar all video, So yeah, you'll have to watch that video. Really good stuff. But yeah, unfortunately Cepha got it wrong. And I think you're right. That's why people want to triple check this stuff, and hopefully they will be able to because you certainly I don't think, you know, our
military is above getting at possibly getting it wrong and or possible disinformation. You never know, I mean, on something like this, you want to triple check everything. So right there you go, and we're out of time. We're out of time. Thank you so much for joining us, Martin, very welcome. All right, Bays, thank you very much. After this break, you will we'll be back with Bryce Davels. So stay tuned. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas,
and I am happy to welcome back to the show. Bryce Zabel. It's my pleasure to come back. It's always fun doing this show. Thank you. So we actually did a couple of minutes of the show. They were really good mates and now I feel like they're undiscovered. They were amazing minutes. But I forgot to push a record, but which I just want to just put this out here. I'm just thinking that in the future, you should always do that before you start. Yeah, yeah, I think I
should write that down in the future, push recurse records. Yeah. But it's wonderful to have you back. Thank you. You reminded me and you know, of course, before the conference with such confusion and so busy that you were just done. Right before the conference, I was, but there was a lot to talk about in terms of setup. I was very excited
at the time about the topic I was going to be talking about. I ended up, as you know, calling it fear and Loathing on the Trail of the Saucers, because I wanted to sort of bring a new tone to the whole endeavor. We talked a little bit about that, but then also the conference was a terrific one. As usual, I always learn a lot and I always enjoy meeting people and talking, so I really had a great time. But there's never an end to what we can talk about. This
is the biggest topic in the world. It's the biggest story in history, and we would be remiss if we thought we had talked it out, because we haven't well, and I don't think there's a time where we've gotten together to just discuss uf and three hours. No, although as we get older,
maybe we're just repeating ourselves. I don't know, but I enjoy it, and I think that this is such a nuanced and interesting topic that the chance to discuss it with similar like minded people is good because because you don't really say the same thing. You're in an active process of investigation of your own thoughts, which is something that I've enjoyed very much about it. I've spent so much time, as most of your listeners have, thinking about this
topic. What does it mean, what's really happening, what's going on in this world that would explain this phenomenon in a coherent and reasonable way. And every time I think I have my hands around that topic, the bar moves a little bit higher and I realize I'm not quite there yet. And I think the listeners feel the same. So I think they're really going to understand
what you're saying, especially my listeners. My listeners are extraordinary, they're just but they're thinkers and you and I think it's the same thing that you're always kind of rethinking the information. And I think it's important that you know your
mind is not set because we're learning new things all the time. It's the thing that's always bothered me, which is how do we reconcile all these disparate things, whether they be alien abductions or crop circles or animal mutilations, or you know, go on and on and on, all the aspects of the phenomenon that are out there. You say, well, they can't all be true, or if they are true, how are they all related. That's been something I've grappled with for a long time. We tried to do it
in the NBC series Dark Skies that I co created with Brent Friedman. Our idea was to try to come up with the unified field theory of ufology, and so we tried to apply some kind of coherent philosophy to all these things.
And while I think succeeded on the level of a television series, a dramatic television series, I don't think I ever succeeded on the level of in my own mind being able to say, now, I understand now it all makes sense, because I don't think we're there yet, and I doubt if the people who do know more about it than I do, who have seen the better pick and the better videos and all this, I'm not so sure they have it all figured out either. But that's something we'll talk about today.
Yeah, I agree with you, And just so your listeners know, just because I forgot that that Bryce was just recently on doesn't mean we're just going to ramble because I don't have anything to talk about I do yes, because after disclosure disclosures essentially what I want to talk about, although I do have a question before we get to that, but let me do that real quick. Art Bell, because you brought up Dark Skies and that's something that
is really cool. Of course, Art Bell unfortunately passed away recently. But one of the really cool things that happened, and you were on Coast to Coast for this recently, is that you were able to get him to play a role on Dark Skys and you shared that hopefully everybody can can go take a look at that and you can tell him where they can watch it. But he was great, He was a really his acting was really good,
and that it's very It's kind of an amusing story. I first met art virtually by being on his show back in nineteen ninety six during the promotion of NBC's Dark Skies, and I had never been on Coast to Coast before, and it was interesting that I got invited back to Coast to Coast because they were for the Art Bell tribute. Because they were saying, wow, I mean you go back to the original early days, And I thought, has it been that long? But I guess it has but Art and I did
three hours. The one thing I learned about a radio show there is doing three hours is a long time, and it requires a lot of mental agility to be doing it at two in the morning. But I got to know him well enough that I thought, you know, he's got such a large radio audience. This is the promoter part of me, the producer part. I thought maybe we should cast Art on the show because he's bound to talk about it, And this is before Facebook and Twitter would allow me to talk
about it. I thought maybe Art, with his audience, could talk about it. So Brent and I cast him in a scene that we had and I believe it was our eighth or tenth episode. It was called We Shall Overcome, which was about the civil rights movement, and we cast Art in a scene that took place at Majestic twelve, which, as your listeners know,
is possibly the UFO cover up organization. So we thought the most delicious and subversive irony that we could possibly put out there would be to cast Art Bell as a member of Majestic twelve in charge of keeping the UFO cover up intact. Then we thought, well, then, who is he going to play? And so we thought, let's go all the way and for a penny in for a pound, let's be really subversive, so we cast him
to play the CBS founder and president william S. Paley. So Art is in this scene in Dark Skies playing william S Paley talking about the UFO cover up. And if you want to see it, there are two places you could see it. It's still on the website at Coast to Coast, I believe, under the Art Bell tribute. And if you can't find it there, or if you just want to see more Dark Sky's clips, you can come to my own site on YouTube, which I guess you just go to
YouTube and google my name Bryce Abel and you'll see it. And we have a whole playlist of Dark Sky's clips, but among them is the one where Art Bell is on and it's probably, I think it is our most popular Dark Sky's clip, because why wouldn't it be. Art Bell was a great
guy. And here's a quick little thing about Art's appearance. He showed up that day and you know, look, this is a guy who, like you, Alejandro was pretty comfortable in front of a microphone, and yet he had two lines in this majestic twelve thing, and he was a little bit nervous about him. And not only was he nervous, but I had asked him to shave his mustache off, because William S. Paley did not have a mustache in nineteen sixty four when the scene took place, and so Art
had shaved his mustache off. And it's sort of like, I think he felt like his power had been taken from him, right in which a man usually feels when you take your facial hair off and you see this other guy staring mac at you, and you get a little shaken. So I was a little concerned, and so is Brent. We're like, is this guy going to be up for the challenge? Is going to even remember his two lines? Art, like all of those of us who are in this business,
knows how to stand and deliver. So we start rolling the cameras Art is there with both his lines. He's fantastic. I think your listeners will agree if they take a look at him. He did a great job. So just all I can say is rest in peace to Art Bell. He started something that we're all standing together and appreciating even today, and much of what's going on in the world of ufology owes a lot to Art bell for
giving shining a little light on it. So I hope he's learned what the next passage is all about, and if he's able to, I hope he sends us a message and tells us so that we can know. You know, I agree he did a great job. In fact, after watching that, I wanted more and I thought, man, it's too bad he didn't do more acting. I thought he did a great job. He did a great job, and in fact, we brought Williams Paley back in a later
episode, and I think he was literally unavailable to do it. He was just too busy to come in from perumpt to play william S Paley, which is too bad because it's always good to have. Anyway, I think you're right. He had appeared on various things. I think though the Dark Sky thing was his first big network acting gig. We didn't pay him at hardly anything, of course, but we still appreciate. Of course, you know,
it's funny too, now that I'm thinking about it, Karen. Of course, what your listeners noted, My girlfriend is off right now watching George Nori, who's in town, who was of course Art Bells successor so. And the reason I bring that up and what made me think about it is I thought, you know how grueling it is to have to be responsible to do a show every night. It's especially a long show like that. It's something and I think for the Art Bells and the George and areas of the
world, they've adjusted their bio rhythms over time to accommodate that. When you're a guest on his show and you're basically waiting up all night long, so you're either overcaffeinated for late at night or you're undercaffeinated for later at night, you're not quite one hundred percent on your game. Here's what I found. I've done the coast to coast thing a few times, and hour one usually goes pretty good because you're on your toes, you're in your fighting weight.
Hour two you're like totally ready to rock and roll because you're the adrenaline is flowing and everything, and somehow in hour three you just kind of lose your edge. And fortunately that's when they do the phone call ins, so that's good. I don't know why I'm going to tell you this, but it
just amuses me. In hour three once with George Knapp, who is the other George on Coast to Coast. We're taking a call from a listener and in the middle of the call we hear the toilet flow bush and George Napp said that that was the first time that had ever happened to him in live radio, and it was certainly my first time. Whose end was that on yours? No, it wasn't no, George Napp me, George Napp did not flesh the toilet. The caller fleshed the toilet. Nor did I flesh
the toilet. It was the caller. Oh, that's hilarious. That's a good one. So moving on to the next topic then, is after Disclosure. So you wrote a book and the reason I bring this up, and I think, especially my listeners some will agree and you probably is at work kind of a little bit in a kind of minor after disclosure moment. But you wrote a book called AD after Disclosure. Some listeners may be aware, some not. And this was written with Richard Dolan. You bet what year
did it come out? Okay, Well, here's the history of AD after Disclosure. I met Richard Dolan in the early twenty tens because I had read his two books, wonderful books, UFOs and the National Security State, and I thought he was the best and most truthful historian on the topic, and I wanted to meet him, and we sort of hit it off, and I think what caught our imagination was the idea there's probably been five thousand books and maybe more written about UFOs, and all five thousand of them seem to
be trying to prove that UFOs are real. In other words, they're almost written for the skeptic who's reading them, trying to say, well, here's the evidence, marshalled to tell you why you should believe that we're not crazy and that UFOs are real. And what caught us was, what if we write the book that nobody's seen before, which is the one that assumes UFOs are real, and that the reader knows they're real, and it's a fact
that they're real. But what's going to happen when the entire world admits it? Okay, so the first book, I mean, the book originally came out in I believe twenty eleven from or Richard's Keyhole Publishing. And interestingly enough, this will tell you something that when we titled it it was called ad
after Disclosure, The People's Guide to Life After Contact. It was a hardcover and then a couple of years later it got picked up by Career Press and they put out a paperback version and they changed the title to ad After Disclosure when the government finally admits the truth about alien contact. So they felt we were a little too obtuse and wanted to make it a little more clear.
But here's the thing. In order to talk about disclosure, there's so many things to think about, and it's such a nuanced topic, but it starts
from what is disclosure. So one of the things that I always say when I'm trying to define what disclosure is would be this, when somebody in a position of power, could be a president, could be a pope, could be the Premier of Russia, could be anybody who's in a position of power, starts that official conversation that these things are real and admits that at least some of the things that are flying around in our skies right now and have
been for a long time, are from someplace that isn't here, and they're being flown by somebody that isn't us. In other words, when we admit publicly that these things aren't ours, but they belong to that other group whoever is visiting us. And that's going to be a radical thing. Now why do we call it AD? That's the other part of the equation. We felt that the acknowledgment of another reality, another a visitation by aliens or ultra
dimensional whatever, whoever the others are, we called them the others. We felt that when that happened, it was just as big a moment as the birth of Jesus. It's a big moment. So we wanted to say the calendar almost starts over again at that point, that we are currently and what I would call the final days, the waning days of the BC world BC meaning in this case before confirmation, and we are soon to cross over into the world of AD, which will be after disclosure, and that people are
going to start to reference time in a different way after that. So in our world there's AD plus one day, AD plus one week, AD plus one month. That there are going to be changes to our society that are going to roll out, And the question is are they predictable? Some are or are they unpredictable? And some are that as well, And so Richard and I fell down that rabbit hole and spent an entire book trying to dissect that new world, that brave new world, and what it would look like,
which is exciting. It's a great book. If you haven't read it, definitely get it. It's a lot of fun because I can tell the voices since I know you guys, and for those of you who have read Dolan, you'll be able to tell it because it's much more historical, and then your parts to really exciting and more you know, thinking like your other books. Well what if it's interesting you say that, though, Alejandro, Because what Richard and I did was we wrote on top of each other.
Well, one of us would have a chapter, and then we turn it over the other guy and he would write on top and there are sections of it where I'll read it today and I'll go, I don't know if I wrote that or Richard wrote it, because there's enough of me in that paragraph and to remind me that it's me, but there's enough of him in it to remind me it's him. But it is true. What we wanted to do was capture the entire future of humanity, if you will, and that
required two things. It required the voice, the rational voice of the historian with the knowledge that Richard Dolan has, But it also required a sense of being able to just cut loose the chords that bind us to a common sense what people know instead start to look to the future and say, what will really happen? And that's sort of because I'm a dramatist, that's where I
come in. And by the way, you mentioned the what if I'm just going to put this one shameless plug in what you're talking about is, lately, I've got a series of books out that are called the Breakpoint Series, where I've been looking into fascinating what ifs from our time. The first was
surrounded by Enemies, what If Kennedy survived Allison. The one that I have out right now is called Once There was a Way, What If the Beatles Stayed Together, which has nothing to do with UFOs except that my own publisher on the what If Books really looked at Ada as another what if book, and in that respect, you could really say it is a what if book. What if the world finally owns up to the fact that the people who think UFOs are real aren't crazy. What if that happens? And I think
we're very close to that moment. Yeah, so given your definition and someone in power, of course you're talking about someone at a very high level. But still what we have is at least closer to that than we've ever had in the United States, where we have someone who worked at the Pentagon for a period of time, working for a funded program and then kind of working
gorilla in a way. And I want to remind people, because especially John Greenwald from The Black Mountain I have been debating this quite a bit lately, is that when you're someone in intelligence, and you can kind of see this if you watch those shows about the CIA, guys, they're looking at data
that has already been created. They're just looking at it from a different perspective to try to glean from all of the data out there understand something, in this case, trying to understand situations and where aircraft that performed in ways that we can't understand that are unidentified. And so Alzando feels that they have found cases where that has been the case. So that's how you can do it
unfunded. You go look at the data that's already out there. So we've got this guy working who worked for the Pentagon, and he says we essentially what you said, that we have a real phenomena, we have real craft. We don't know whose they are, but we don't believe there ares because they outperform ours, and that's kind of a disclosure. It is disclosure, And in fact, I think it's very clear the calendar clickover of disclosure means it has to be on a level where the entire world at the same time
comes to disclosure. There's no question that most of your viewers or listeners rather have are already in the post disclosure environment because I already know that this is real. You know it's real. I know it's real. We're all living in the ad. We're living in the post disclosure world to us personally, but the world isn't yet acting like we've disclosed this reality. But based on what you just said and the revelations the New York Times, Tom Delong's group
that kind of thing, we are getting closer and closer. But I'm reminded that we should have a little bit of humility about this. I'm sitting in by the way, for those of you who are listening, I'm sitting in Alejandro's podcast Kingdom, and I'm surrounded by his collection of UFO books, which rivals my collection of UFO books. And you have some that go back to the beginning, right, and those include Donald Kejo's wonderful books that were written
in the fifties. I have those myself. But let's remind ourselves that even in the early fifties, when Donald Keyho was writing his wonderful books, he kept talking about the Silence Group, all right, which we're call it Majestic twelve, call it the secret Keepers. I don't know what you want to call it, but he called it the Silence Group. And in most of his books, as I remember them, he talks about how disclosure. He didn't call it disclosure, but he called it the end of the secret was
imminent. Okay. Well that was by my count, almost seventy years ago, and so people have been predicting the imminent end of the UFO cover up since then, and we haven't had it yet. But I do think the situation seems to have been moved forward by recent events, and we have the greatest reason for optimism that this new world is rushing at us faster than most
of us would ever believe. I think, you know, it was interesting, in fact, talking with George Knapp recently, very recently, he wrote to me and he said something along the lines of how shocked he was, how excited he was about what's happened so far. He never thought we would make it this far, that even this level of disclosure would happen during his lifetime. I feel the same way. I'm sure you do too. Look, I'm not as young as I used to be. I guess that's true
of all of the people who are listening. I still would like to see this happen in my lifetime. And if you'd asked me fifteen years ago, if that was possible, and I was a younger man fifteen years ago, so I had more reason for optimism, I still would have said, I'm not sure. Now I'm an older man compared to that person, and yet I'm more optimistic. The facts on the ground, if you will, seem to indicate that there is strong movement toward owning up to this. And part
of the reason is this vast new technology that's surrounding us. Look at the fact that you and I are reaching so many people, but we're sitting in your office doing a podcast. Think of all the technology that can be aimed at the skies right now, by regular people, not just by the military, not just by the government. Think of the ways of communication, think of the ways of research that people are able to do on their own. They don't need official people who have better toys to do it. They have
their own great toys. So we are preparing to disclose this reality to ourselves. That's part of what's happening in this podcast. That's part of what's happening with the New York Times report and the released videos. It's starting to happen, and it's as co writer of Ads Richard Dolan said, we are preparing to leap into their world. Up until now, the others have sort of owned their world, and it was up to them when we would know they were here. And now it's kind of up to us, and I think
that is a big, big game changer. All right, Well, it is time for a break for those of you listening with KGRA going to hear some commercials, so please listen closely and patronize these great people who keep all of us on the air. For those of you listening to the podcast, you'll hear a short musical interlude and we'll be right back with Bryce Abel Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we are here with Rece Zabel, one of the authors of A d
After Disclosure, along with Richard Dolan. So I want to ask, then, in relation to your book, Uh, do you see because you guys put a lot of thought to what would happen with what has happened since you know Alissando has come out and told his story. I think the changes are subtle, But do you see changes and do you see anything maybe that you even touched upon into in your book coming to fruition. Absolutely there There are
a couple of ways that disclosure can come about. I don't think Richard and I ever meant to set ourselves up as the grand poobas of disclosure who tell you exactly how it would happen. So what we intended to do was ask questions and to make suggestions about scenarios. There are two basic ways that it can start. It can start because there's some incontrovertible event that gains the attention
of the media worldwide. That would be the equivalent, say of a phoenix light event, only it happens during broad daylight and there's not any question about whether it's flares or anything else. It's simply seen by twenty or thirty thousand people at the same time, and they all take pictures, and the news media covers it, and it's on the cover of Time and Newsweek, and
everybody's talking about it. So that could happen. I mean, that could happen, and that would basically pop us into a post disclosure world within seven to ten days. I would tend to imagine in such an event. Now it hasn't happened yet, but there's the possibility. Then the other way it
happens is what I guess we would call the avalanche. That there's smaller things that lead to slightly bigger things that lead to even bigger things, and it starts to pick up the momentum of a snowball rolling down the hill, and pretty soon that little snowball is now a giant avalanche of disclosure coming down at you. And that seems to be what we're following. Now. It doesn't mean that some event won't happen, because we don't control such an event,
but we do see the patterns. Obviously, somebody on the inside of the government has said, let's release some videos. We also have a more open acknowledgment of it between Luis Elizondo and of course, you know, even Senator Harry Reid talking about it. We had Hillary Clinton and John Podesta talking about it in the presidential campaign. Had they won, they would talking about it. Right now we see Jimmy Kimmel interviewing former presidents and talking about it.
There's a whole acceptance of the topic that did not exist a few years ago, and that is really a harbinger of change. I think that we have to think about. So there are a lot of reasons and a lot of things that we thought about, and it does seem like we're moving closer and closer. The one thing I will say also, though, is because essentially
disclosure is about the end of secrecy. It's the end of whether it's an official, nefarious Karen's conspiratorial cover up, or it's something else the jury may be out on, but it is when things are publicized one of the things we can be very clear on that. I don't think there's a lot of facts that we all agree on about eufology right now, but I will tell
you that I thought a lot about it. I think there is one fact, one fact that we can agree on right now, and that is that the people who are involved in it, the others, and the humans agree on one thing that it should be a secret, because each side has had the ability to end this cover up, to end this secrecy from the get go. If you think about it, we as humans could have the President walk out tomorrow and say, oh, by the way, that UFO's stuff
is real. And for those of you in the media, here are hard drives with three terabytes of video and photos, and so could we could end it right now? And the others could literally land on the White House lawn, or they could land in Central Park, or they could do a phoenix lights you know, roundabout. But they haven't done it right. So we can state for a fact that both sides agree it should be a secret. Now that raises a lot of questions. Why do both sides agree it should
be a secret. Did they agree together it should be a secret, or have they agreed independently it should be a secret. We just know that they think so far it should be a secret. But now we're starting to see more moves on our side that would say we're willing to talk about it a little more openly, and we're also seeing i think, more public events where whoever these others are if you take a look at the videos that we're released,
seem to be allowing themselves to be seen. What's interesting. I think you're one hundred percent right on that, and I think we always forget that
part because you know, everybody is why doesn't the government disclosed? Why doesn't it the government tell with what's going on when at the same time and there's another party involved, and they don't seem, at least according to what Alessander's discovered, at least shared and what's in those videos, to have disclosed much to the government, and that you know, we've had those cases even in Bluebook, where they're kind of teasing, they fly around, they show themselves,
We scramble our jets. This happened then and it's happening now. They outclass our jets, they fly around, take off our jets. Can't do anything about it, and that's it. No mass, you know, exposing themselves to large masses of people during the day, like you're talking about what they could do instead. It's it's very subtle kind of hey look at me, I'm out of here type of thing. It raises so many questions.
A lot of it is. I mean, one of the reasons that it was a semi daring thing to write ad after disclosure is that it's all speculation. By definition, it was speculation, and a lot of people want to deal in just the facts. But we also felt it is time to talk about it. We maybe if you think about it, let's go back to some analogs for where we are. If we came across a new tribe in the Jungles of Orneo that we wanted to study and they'd never ever seen advanced
technology of any kind, we wouldn't just show up right. We would observe them from a distance, and then we might observe them a little closer, maybe even fly a drone over them, might fly a drone exactly and slowly, we might acclimate them until one day we might show up, and then another day a lot of us might show up and we might have a conversation. We just don't know. The only analogs we have are ones that we've had, Like, for example, in our human history, every time in
advanced technology civilization rather has met with a less advanced civilization. The more advanced one pretty much wins and the less advanced ones are either absorbed or eradicated. So let's hope that's not what's happening with us. We just don't We don't have the facts, but I think those of a who favor full on disclosure of some kind have come to the conclusion that whatever the facts on the ground
or in the air are, we would like them. I've always believed that all of us together are smarter than any one of us, So it doesn't seem right that a small and elite group of humans have been able to study this phenomenon and then make fun of the rest of us for daring to know that it's real. We should all be part of it, because we can
all collaborate and try to get some answers. And believe me, I think we need some answers now along the lines of what you were talking about, the scenario where it's kind of a slow avalanche and these little things like little
boulders start rolling down the hill that boulder's been rolling. And I haven't had a lot of contact with Elizondo lately, but in my last one he forwarded me these quotes, and I did some research and I found them and I hadn't seen these, and I don't know of anybody in this field who had saw these. And I'm going to post a story about this, But essentially this was a story last week. There was this big space meeting in Colorado
Springs and there were a lot of defense people and otherwise. And I even used a quote actually in a story that I'm going to have in Den of Geek coming up in the next couple of days, where they talked about the major conversation was about space warfare and this sort of thing. But when you went down in this long kind of story on Politico that was about different notes about this, there was a conversation from one of the advisors to Trump's new
National Space Council. It's actually something that existed before that he rebooted, and she was talking to a couple of politicians and the reporter I asked, are you guys going to be talking about UFOs at this conference given the New York Times story in December, And she said, no, but we probably should.
I think it would be appropriate. And they asked talk to a couple of of other politicians and they said, we would be open to hearings at Congress to hear more about this because we think if there are something you know, flying around that we don't know what it is, we should be talking about it, maybe we should be spending some money on it. That to me was jaw dropping. It's we're on the verge of great change and you've
sort of highlighted the one major issue. Before often taken the position that somebody you know, the people who are in the know, have taken the position that they're the ones that should be studying it. I think the change is we are now starting on a more open level for people who ordinarily wouldn't be talking about this matter to start talking about it and saying, yeah, we
should really get to the bottom of it. And the biggest open question in the field right now is are there, in fact people who who know chapter and verse of what is really going on? Or are there people who have been studying this for seventy plus years and maybe a lot longer who don't really
know what's going on even after all this study. In other words, where are we in the behind the scenes process of studying this and how can we move our investigation from an inside the beltway or inside the cover up investigation and bring it out into the light of day and let all of us look at it, and there are likely to be some really astonishing surprises. It may very well be there is a darn good reason why they haven't told us about
it. I don't know what that is. I don't know that I support any reason as being good enough to ridicule people who are aware of this phenomenous reality. But there probably are some provocative things we're going to learn, and some of them may not be good. Oh I just said of something.
What what if this is their test? Their test is you know, a government is not ready to join or for us to converse with I'm speaking from the other's perspective, if they're not open with their public, with their peace interesting and by us showing ourselves to their government and showing, look, we can outclash you. We're better than you. We've got technology that you would love to have. Are they going to share that with their public? And
thus far they have not. It's fascinating and the very statement you just made makes you It raises a question, which is that's a good way humans may think of this, But we're dealing with a potential alien or ultra dimensional or whatever, another intelligence besides ours is thinking of us. We don't have any
experience yet as to how another intelligence think about such matters. We just don't know, which makes me think of something else, because what you're talking about is in order to that they're thinking is so far out of the box. It's going to be difficult for us to make any assumptions about their motivations, their technology, anything, which I agree with one hundred percent. What's funny about that is organizations such as SETI, which are kind of the go to
people, they're thinking is so in the box. It's completely inside the box. And there oh, they've got to be doing technologies that we used to just go I'm not a SETI. As a young kid, I used to think SETI was an exciting concept. But the more that I've learned, I
think it's just a sham. These people who are have been looking historically into SETI and singing its praises and then pooh pooing UFOs just really irritate me because they're willing to believe that the universe is teeming with life, but it couldn't possibly be here when reality the evidence suggests that that's wrong, that this other reality, this other life form other is here right now and we should be looking at that. So I'm it's kind of ironic you bring it up.
But in going back to Dark Skies for a moment, one of the characters we made in the series was Carl Sagan, and we had Carl Sagan basically being brought into the cover up because he was willing to trade getting knowledge of what was really going on in order to become the public shill for telling people.
Again, as Carl said, there's billions and billions of planets out there and life is teaming out there in the universe, but they couldn't be here, and I just don't buy it. I don't think it makes sense. By the way, can I do a shameless update on where AD stands right now? Please do. It's not shameless, it pertains to the conversation and it's very exciting, all right. So one of the as your listeners know, I'm not so much of you. I'm a semi semi expert at best.
On UFOs. I know a few things, but primarily you know quite a bit. Okay, well, thank you. But I'm a writer producer in Hollywood and I do television shows and films and so One of the reasons that I've always been excited about ad After Disclosure is it's the intellectual property, it's the underlying rights, if you will, to what could become a very
exciting television series. So I reached out originally to Richard Dolan because of his vast expertise, to try to craft this ip this book, if you will, And now just recently I've reached out to my Dark Skies co creator, Brent Friedman, who is one of the great minds of storytelling. He's just a brilliant storyteller, and we have been working on taking the book that Dolan
and I wrote and developing it into a new television series. And I'm not going to tell the details of what we're doing yet because we're still trying to figure out exactly how to tell it. But our plan is to get this out into the market, at least pitching it in the market in the next you know, within six months, and maybe earlier, with an idea to trying to tell a longer story, a more dramatic story. And frankly, the reason we're doing it is that if we don't get it done quick,
I think real events are going to overtake it do it. I think that we are, you know, again, given what I said about Donald Keiho and people predicting this going back seventy years or fifty years or sixty years, I still do believe we are on the precipice of this happening, and I would now put the odds at fifty to fifty over the next five years. So I really think we are living in exciting times. And the thing that I would frankly urge any listeners to do is for a long time, we've
all been led to believe that. As I've often said, I think people that talk about UFOs publicly are often treated like the drunk uncle at the wedding party. And I think it's time for us to move beyond that. So for those of us who actually know that this is a real issue and a real phenomenon, it's time for us to take a more public profile and to
speak up in places two people who we wouldn't ordinarily talk to him. Yeah, that reminded me of kind of because I was thinking of, you know, scenes like that would be in there and in your show, and I don't know that these are going to be scenes in your show, and I apologize. If they're good, I'm going to take trust you do it because
it made me think of you know, Nick Pope got really excited. He even spoke at the UFO Congress about how he was part of this royal science conference in space and he was there and behind the scenes many of the scientists were willing to share their UFO stories to talk about UFOs, but they even said to them, there's no way I want to talk publicly about this sort of thing. Here we come, you know, post December, post this
New York Times story and add a similar to sort of space conference. Not only do we have some people talking about this with a reporter and willing to talk about it, these are people who can create some sort of action unit, right that can you know, something actionable may happen from what they're doing, and they're feeling more empowered because of what's happened. So that to your
point, things are moving and changing and it's really exciting. I think the number one way that we accelerate disclosure and accelerate this brave new world is to normalize discussion of UFO reality. And by that I mean for seventy years, the powers that be have made derision and ridicule and denial. The way that we keep this from being talked about too much. The more we normalize it, the more we're willing to speak to friends, neighbors, coworkers in a
normal and yet forthright way about this. It normalizes it so that other people can talk about it. So if you've had an experience or a citing, you should talk about it. If you just have a belief that it's time for it to be more more common, talk about it. If you read the New York Times article, send it to your friends, Normalize the conversation about what's going on with UFOs, and you'll be surprised. How fast did the Berlin Fall wallfall? Very fast? How fast did we go from Harvey
Weinstein to the Me Too movement? How fast did we go from the shooting in Florida to the Never Again movement? And the answer is almost overnight? All right. So, if the conditions are right, this thing could break out in a heartbeat. And your role, if you're listening right now and you want to be a part of that, is don't hide your feelings, just make them more normal, talk about them. Don't be crazy, don't be angry, just be normal and conversational and speak to people about it,
and that's how the wall of secrecy is going to fall. This is a great point to end on. All right, thank you so much. Work already out of time to time fly, so now's your time to plug. Like where can people go to find out more about your books? And absolutely listen. I appreciate that I'm still promoting my Beatles, but because I do love it, and people can go to what if beatles dot com to see that we are working on the after disclosure thing that will soon be at afterdisclosure
dot com, but it's not there right now. If people just want to know what's going on with me, they can go to pricesable dot com. That's b R yce z A b E L. And I hope people do because I love the conversation. Perfect. Thank you so much, my pleasure. Thank you so much. Did Bryce Sabel for joining us once again. It's always awesome to have him back on the show. He's so much fun, His energy is so great. He's an out of the box thinker.
He's always thinking about how to present this credible information in a way that is really going to grasp an audience. Of course, he's fictionalizing a lot of this stuff, but it's often, you know, stuff that is actually pooled from the research. And as you can tell, he says, I'm no eufologist, but you know what, he knows a lot more. He knows a lot more than a lot of the so called uthologists that I do know. So I certainly would if you had to say, is Bryce's abele euthologists,
I'd say, yes, he is. So. I mean, even though he had spoken with us recently, I thought, you know, he helped write this book AD and he's such an out of the box kind of thinker. I think that he's going to have some really interesting things to say about what feels like this, this kind of post ad kind of world. Things are changing. You can feel it. And I mean, in conversation in this story, I'll be writing that you need to look out for soon.
These politicians talking about actually, you know, having some sort of program related to UFO is kind of rebooting something. I mean, the revelation that there was a program at all is just shocking, let alone people actually taking it seriously at such a high level in the government about rebooting a program like that, It's extraordinary. These are extraordinary times. So thank you so much
for joining me, Bryce that it was a very incredible discussion. Please do check out everything he's up to some very cool stuff from the last show. You know, he's working on a Betty and Barney Hill movie. He's working on a movie that kind of highlights the work of Stanton Friedman and Don Schmidt called Magicman or something similar to that. I think that's a working title. And now we've got this show based on the book ad which I think would
be so interesting. I didn't know that either when I invited him back to the show, So that's a scoop for the show, and an exciting one at that. But I also want to remind you go check out ufocongress dot com. Lots of cool stuff there. We've got lots of new videos up at the video site there, and watch the store. There are new products like mugs and really cool stuff. So ufocongress dot com check that out. And all of the news that Martin and I talked about you can find at
Openminds dot tv. Of course I'm posting new stuff there daily. We still have daily headlines, even though we don't have as many stories as we used to. But Before we go, I want to thank Calem Haiggs for the opening and Closed Music Systematics for the bumper music, and of course, as always, I want to thank the most important people. Don't I kiss your butt so much? But I love to do it because I think my listeners are awesome and they deserve it. So thank you so much for joining me
once and again. Until next time, Audio smooth chechos your motion and sound. The glassy summary of my second thought res