Welcome to Open Mindes Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for nearly a decade and has logged hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding
the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome to open Minds Radio, where we're bringing the UFO subject into the light of day. This is Alejandro Rojas and we have another spectacular show today. In fact, we have brought on our very own Antonio Huneez as a guest today. The reason why is he's going to Mexico this weekend and actually Jason, our news guy, and myself are going to be accompanying him for a conference.
It's the twenty twelve UFO World Symposium. I think Antonio be able to more accurately give us the title of the conference, but it's down in Mexico, done by Jime Moussan and you're going to be able to watch this entire event at openminds dot tv this weekend. If you go there, there's going to be streaming video. You're gonna be able to watch Antonio and a number of
other great speakers. I know Don Schmidt, who does Roswell Investigation is going to be down there, Whitley Streiber, of course, the famous and always entertaining Jimei Mussan, and many others. And we'll talk about that some more in a minute. The reason I wanted to bring on Antonio is he is speaking at the conference about some of his stories that are also going to be in our magazine. In our magazine is coming out next week. It's actually
out right now. You can go to our website and order it. But you're gonna be able to go to Barnes and Noble and Border and even the airport and purchase our magazine on the twenty third. So we are extremely excited
about that. And in the first issue, Antonio has a great story on what is called the Ruwa Incident, and essentially a Harvard professor of psychology went down and investigated his name was John Mack, a case in South Africa where some school children had actually seen a Ufo land and these et guys come out because you know the kids are going crazy. The teachers are thinking they're being silly, but upon investigation, it was something that really happened. These kids
were startled and they described similar occurrences and it's an incredible case. And so we covered a story on that that Antonio tell us about. He also, for the second issue of the magazine, which we're working on now, has a story on the Vatican and their connections. You know, you've heard us talking a lot about astrobiology and the Vatican, talking about extraterrestrials and the philosophical implications and what does that mean. So we're gonna He's got a story on
that that we'll be talking about. Also Mexico, Mexico's first UFO wave. Antonio believes that perhaps their first UFO wave happened during the time of Montezuma, the Aztec culture, that they might have seen some omens or they did see some moments that were documented and maybe those are UFOs, and we're going to talk more about that. So a lot of cool stuff to talk about.
But as usual, we have our UFOs in the news headlines that we cover on a regular basis that you can see on the front page of Openminds dot TV and we have our news correspondent, Jason McClelland here to tell us all about it. Good afternoon, Alejandro, Hello Phoenix, and hello world. Let's review the news from the week. I delivered a story last week about
a multi day UFO siding in Euclid, Ohio. The series of UFO sidings was again reported by Cleveland's Fox Channel eight, MSNBC, and other major media because the mysterious lights continued to appear night after night. Eugene Irlick, at a local residence, spotted and photographed lights in the sky outside his house over a span of many nights. He described the lights as pulsating and changing colors.
A field investigator from mufon the mutual UFO Network went to Euclid and investigated the strange lights, and their investigator was there for multiple days and photographed and video and took video of the object. But still no one knows what the object was. And I think it appeared for something like nine nights in a row. Well, I heard that I saw a story today and I'll get that up that it's day eleven. That he might have even have continued to
see the sidings up until even today. And I believe somebody spoke with NASA and NASA said they were testing some sort of aircraft in the area. I didn't know NASA tested airly raft, but they admitted that in the area they had tested things, but not on any of these nights that the lights were reported. Hmmm. Interesting. I know, if you live out in Ohio, if you're a listener, you know, give us a call let us know, or go to our website and send us an email on if you're
seeing these things. A lot of people live around Lake Gary right. In other news, more than one hundred starlings fell out of the sky in England last week. A witness described the birds falling from the sky like rain. Approximately seven seventy appeared to be dead before hitting the earth. The Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals was unable to determine the cause of death, but noted that the birds were not poisoned, but did sustain physical injuries.
One possible explanation is that the birds were hit by something they couldn't see, like possibly an invisible ufo OUI. That's freaky, Yeah, that's weird. These birds falling out of the sky. Such a strange story and it's happened
before actually in the past, but so strange. And you said that they ruled out poison, right, So, because that's one of the things sometimes when these birds are in the sky, if there's some sort of gas business gas in the air, but one hundred birds at one time just falling to their death. Yeah, really strange. Of course, when this happens to people speculate that its heart maybe some sort of weird experiments done with microwaves.
Who knows. And In Open Minds News, we are pleased to announce live streaming coverage of the Kumbre mundal Opne Conference at the World Trade Center in Mexico City beginning today. You can view the conference from the comfort of your own home for only twenty nine to ninety five. The event runs from today, March nineteenth, through the twenty first. It features eighteen international speakers presenting a
variety of UFO topics over the course of three days. Speakers include Haimi Mussan, Nick Pope, Whitley, Streeper, Hoctan Octagon, and Open Minds Barry Oon Antonio Juneis. Again, you can watch the entire conference online all three days for only twenty nine ninety five. Just go to Openminds dot tv and click on the events tab to purchase your ticket and for more information about the conference. That's it for me, Alejandro. Back to you, Kumre Mundia,
you do that very well. You can rule your urs. I can't do that, Gratias, Hey, pretty good. I like it when the girls do that, ale Handlo, but I can't roll my eyes. I can't do it, unfortunately. But yeah, it should be a fun weekend out there in Mexico. We're going to be able to get some more photos of some of the different archaeological things around there, so that'll be really good because we'll get those pictures for our story that Antonio is doing. So we'll
talk more about that story. It's an excess in just a minute. Some other things with our magazine to let you know there's also other writers in there like me. So just to entice you to get out there, tell your buddies, take your friends, everybody, go store by store and buy up
all of the magazines. But we have one on the White House, the White House connection to UFOs, and it's really interesting because there are staff members in the White House, including Hillary Clinton and John Podesta, who's not really in the White House anymore, but he helped with the transition period, but their connections to UFOs and the efforts for disclosure. Also a story on cattle mutilations in the second one, and that's a lot of fun. We had
Chuck Sukowski on the show before. We also had him on our live streaming of the Lafflin conference where he was able to talk about that, and we'll get more details coming up here. But speaking of that as well, the streaming that we did in Laughlin at the UFO Congress, that's going to be online as well, because every day we streamed, we did a live show with some interviews with some of the speakers there and some of the people around, so you're going to be able to see that online as well, and
we got some great interviews out there. It was a lot of fun. And the reason why speaking about Chuck brought that up is because that was party night. You know, you can see the party happening behind us, and during my interview with Chuck, he got really silly and was being a goofball and some people were saying, hey, you guys need to be more serious, but you know, we can't be serious all the time, we kind of have some fun people, so that was a lot of fun. That
was a really good interview. So don't forget go and check out our magazine. Really it's only thirty bucks for six issues, so for a year's worth of magazine, and the stories are just phenomenal. They're really actually selling very well. We sold tons of subscriptions out there in Laughlin, so we're really excited about it. And of course we're extremely excited about the second issue. So we'll get more into what's in that second issue, more details on the
RUA story, the Vatican, aztec omens and UFOs. What's more exciting than that? In just a few seconds after the break, you're listening to Open Minds Radio on KFNX. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with l Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back. You are listening to Open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, and we have our special guests for the day, Antonio, who Nass with us in the studio, which is exciting to have a guest actually here with us. Antonio, why don't we
start off with you give me a little bit about your background. Hi, Alejandro and Hi everybody. Hi, Well my background. You know, I've been in the UFO field for over thirty years. I'm a science journalist. My family originally is from Chile, but I lived over thirty years in the United States. I lived for a long time in New York City and where it is where I became a Northologist. I've written for publications all over the world, and now for the last six months, I was lucky enough to
be hired by Open Minds and I moved to the West. Being in New York. One of the exciting stories that you've got to be involved with some of the different activities the UN had related to UFO. Yeah, that was great, you know I have. I was just arrived in New York within a year or so, and I had written maybe one article on UFOs. I was still writing for some newspapers in Santiago Childer and I heard through they
got a report through the newswires. I guess that there was going to be this official UFO hearing of the United Nations, which was convened by the then Prime Minister of Berenada, the Caribbean island called the Sir Eric Gaary, And so I went career as a journalist, and that was the first, the very first UFO event I ever attended, and wow, and it was the
only official UFO event that ever happened at the United Nations. There were some other lectures that people did, including myself many years later, but these lectures were for you know, for the employees, for the staff. They were
not official, They were not part of that genda of the umaginations. So I think that was your first UFL meeting was yeah, Well I didn't speak, totally unknown in the field, but I got to meet doctor Allan Heinich, you know, the late astronomer who was the advisor for Project Blue Book, and Jacques Ballet, the famous also astrophysicist the French America and lives in California. And now those two people were instrumental on what the movie Because Encounters
was based off of. Was a French guy and Heinich was the advisor as you know, and has a cameo appearance, and Ballet was really the inspiration for the character of la Combe played by the famous movie director Truffaul. So anyway, it was very exciting to cover that, and of course I was a science journalist, so I had been naturally skeptic about the UFO phenomenon,
like most people are, especially back in those days. You thought that if it's not being covered by official institutions or scientific academies and things like that, it's probably not worthwhile. But this conditions the otherwise. I mean, here was an official hearing at the United Nations, and so that was great. Yeah, that was And then of course I was able to meet the many. There was an interesting UFO community back in New York City back in those
days. Well, there was the late the Hungarian colonel, very colorful character, colemen Van Kevinsky. In fact, he had worked at the United Nations and he had tried to get a project started under the Secretary General Utante. And then, of course I also met over the years Bud Hopkins, you know, the abduction author and artists. And John Keel, the author of the Mofman prophecies, who passed their way to the story. We wanted to talk about that he wrote for the first magazine. Uh when did you first
meet the Harvard professor John Mack who investigated that. Uh? Probably I met John Mack. He lived in New York. No, he lived in Boston, actually Cambridge Massachusetts. He was a professor of psychiatry at Harvard University. Very prominent man. He was a Pullit Serprise winner for a biography he wrote of Lawrence of Arabia. Right, so this was not your run of the male uphologist. And he had become interested in the phenomenon through Bout Hopkins.
Originally he went there, I guess as a psychiatrist, you know, probably, and he was more focused on the phenomenon of abduction. Yes he was. He was not a UFO investigator, he was because of his profession.
His his emphasis was on the on abductions. Initially he got very great The media was very encouraging, you know, and they had great profiles of him, and then Wall Street Journal and all kinds of publications because I thought, I think that the mainstream media thought that finally we have a prominent scientist who's going to come up with a quote psychological explanation for it, is basically going
to debunk this phenomenon. Then when his book came out, which I believe was in nineteen ninety four, his first book, it was just called Abduction, he disappointed, you know, all the skeptics because he said, well, I'm sorry, but this is real. I've looked deeply into it. There's no psychological explanation, there's no these experiences cannot be accounted by psychiatric illnesses
or whatever. And I guess it was around this period his book had been I probably met him around the same time, maybe ninety three or something. He used to go to a lot of conferences because he was a very prominent man, and so I was also lecturing at a lot of international and American conferences. So I met him around that period and he got a tip. I guess that this very interesting case had happened in was not in South Africa,
but in Zimbabwe. Yeah, at a place called Ruwa, not far from Harari, the capital of Zimbabwe, at this elementary school called the Ariel Arial School. In fact, the case was investigated by the late Cynthia Hind, whom I also met. She was a delightful lady. I met her at a conference in Rio de Janeiro many many years ago, and she used to come to the United States once in a while, and she was she an investigator in Africa. She was a pioneer investigator in Africa. She was
not black, she was white. From the old I guess British people that had lived in Zimbabwe which used to be called Rhodesia. But she was an African and she was really the first pioneering person and she wasn't a UFO investigator, and so she lived near the area. She got the tip that this
case had happened, and she was the first on the scene. And basically what you had was this happened on September fourteen, nineteen ninety four, and the kids were it is estimated that about sixty two kids saw it and they were on a break and this UFO literally landed or Harvard outside a playfield and they all saw it. And not only they saw the UFO land, but these beings come out and some of the kids had some kind of communication as
well, and they were all consistent. Initially, the teachers and other people try to put it down, but the stories were so consistent that basically, you know, eventually they accepted the kids testimony. Now, John Mack got there maybe about four months afterwards, and he brought a camera, a camera woman from South Africa, and he recorded extensively a lot of interviews with them, with the kids. Then basically, when unfortunately John Mack was killed by
a drunk driver in England while attending a conference on lawrence of Arabia. This happened I forgot around two thousand and four or something like that. So the case basically since behind had also passed away, so the case lay dormant. And then that's when a filmmaker from both New York and Boston called Randy Nickerson. Initially he was brought in by the John mac Institute now it's called the John mc Institute used to be called the Peer Group and to edit possibly the
footage that they had in due a documentary. And this filmmaker, Nickerson, realized that the case was so significant and interesting and unusual that it really it merited a more detailed investigation. It's an incredible case and you can see some of the video I know on YouTube. There was there's a spent on some was it covered on sightings or one of the the world sightings they covered. It wasn't the BBC even at the time. It got a lot of coverage,
but that was all back then. And so what this guy has done is he went back. He actually spent something like nine and a half months in Southern Africa, most of the time in South Africa a little time in
Zimbabwe what happened. Of course, the kids are all now in their twenties, and because the economic and political situation in Zimbabwe is so unstable and bad, you know, Zimbabwe really has a lot of problems that a lot of them have emigrated to South Africa. So he did a lot of radio shows and he was able to eventually locate about thirty of the original witnesses and then
interview them. He also found other things that there were many other incidents that happened over perhaps three or five day period in Africa, specifically inwe really including two other schools. Parenty this object first Harvard over those other schools and then finally landed in the in the a real school. Interesting. He also found that this is fascinating that the principle of the arial school had a missing time experience. Wow. Well, let's talk a little bit more about that.
But we'll be getting into Mexico and the Vatican and UFOs were with our guest Antonio Gunez. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back. You're listening to Open Minds Radio on Campnex. This is Open Minds Radio here again. Your host UFO paranormal researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas, Welcome back.
I want to remind you that at Open Minds, we we are always posting those news stories at Openminds dot tv, so you can get those on a daily basis, as well as other stories, including stories by our guests Antonio. In fact, we had an interview with Antonio with Bob Brend, who was one of the gentlemen who ran Project blue Book for the Air Force for a period of time. That was a very lengthy and interesting interview because you don't see very many interviews with Bob friend out there, so you got
some details from him that people haven't been able to see other places. Real quick, because we don't want to give away your whole story from Africa, so we want them to go read it on the magazine, but if you could share it. Before the break, you were talking about some of the other phenomena that even another landing at a school. Well no, basically I think the landing was just the one in a real school, but there was a wave is what we call a wave in probably is estimated that thousands of
people saw it, so there were also adults involved. As now we know, in including the principle of the school. This maybe didn't even happen exactly on that same morning, but perhaps within those few days. She had been in denial of course, so she hadn't even talked about it until this guy, Randy Nickerson went there. So we don't know exactly the date, but
it's definitely in that period. And another interesting aspect is, of course people you know, skeptics who say, well, but all this material now is available on the web and so on. Yeah, maybe so today, but not in nineteen ninety four, and not especially in Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a very poor country. I'm sure it wasn't at all wired for the worldwide. Even the web in nineteen ninety four was fairly primitive, even in the United States, right, so the chan and they would have not been large amounts
of UFOL books and periodicals and things like that. So the chances of ten year old kids, you know, reading about how aliens are supposed to look or behave it's neil, I would say, So, it's I'm very excited not only with this story but with it in general, with our magazine. I think it looks fantastic. Have you heard an update when this documentary might
be coming out. Well. When I interviewed Nickerson, which was a few months ago when we were putting together the first tissue, he was still working. I guess most of the filming was done, but he was still editing and trying to obtain additional footage. He was talking of by the mid of twenty ten. These things tend to be delayed, so we'll have to contact him. We'll have to send him, in fact, a copy of the
magazine, and yeah, sure will be the Like, that's exciting. I'm real excited about the documentary because, like I said, it was featured in parts and pieces of documentary, right, but only briefly, and it certainly deserves an entire documentary focused on it. It's a really unusual case, another kind of interesting development in euthology that deserves a lot of attention. It's the Vatican and it's sudden interest in astrobiology, right or is this interest so sudden?
Well, actually it is not that sudden if we consider that in two thousand and seven, I believe, so, it's over two years ago. The Observatoria Romano, which is the absolute official voice of the Vatican. This is not just a regular Rome newspaper, this is the official newspaper of the Catholic Church for the whole world, published a famous interview with then a new director of the Vatican Observatory in Argentinian Jesuit called the Fullness Father Fullness, And
the title of the interview was very suggestive. And this obviously, you know, as you know from our even our magazine, headlines are not done cavalierly, you know, editors, you know, carefully take us a long time, we argue. So the headline was the extra terrestrial is my brother? That was the headline of that article, and which was basically an interview with Father Fullness. And this was over two years ago, and this received worldwide
attention at the time. And uh, and then later there was even a second interview with Fullness, and so this was been going on for at least two years, and this message essentially being I don't think they're here, but if they were, it's not that big of a deal. That's okay to believe in eat correct that. Yeah, ultimately, I mean what's interesting is the Church's dealing with this issue, at least at this time, not so much from a theological point of view, but from a scientific point of view
they have. So it's been they're they're handling it through the Observatory, which is their scientific branch. You know, the Vatican even has an Academy of Sciences and everything, and it's run by real scientists, and the same thing with the Observatory. It happens that often these scientists are also priests, especially
Jesuits, who tend to have a very good education. But yeah, they're not talking directly about UFOs, but they're kind of in a way, I guess, preparing public opinion and Catholic opinion that it's okay, you know, that there is life out there. And then recently they had an entire conference devote it correct. So this has been kind of creating a momentum, and the momentum reached the kind of a peak in I believe it was either in
last November or the same. In fact, we do have a short news article on the first issue, but we'll have a floor or treatment on the second issue, including an article by Daniel Sheehan, who's an attorney. In fact, interesting enough, he used to be John Max attorney because he's also a Harvard professor. Yes, and he's connected. He also did work with the Jesuits, so he has very good connections with the Jesuits. So we have an article by him and our people by me. We'll have the whole
do'sie and yeah. So there was a conference. It was strictly scientific conference run by the Vatican Observatory in the Vatican itself, and this got again worldwide attention. One of the most famous personalities was in fact, you did the story where his book got mentioned. That was about something different, you know, the Hillary Clinton Paul Davis. Paul Davis was one of the most famous scientists. You know, I don't know about you, and I know it.
The synchronicities, I think are pretty incredible. It's just kind of strange that, you know, this discovery around the book that Hillary Clinton was holding just happened at the same period of time that Paul Davies is getting in the news like crazy, first of all for his ideas on astrobiology, then for speaking at the Vatican's conference, and even now he's been on the news a lot, got a new book coming right talking about his ideas about extraterrestrial life
and extraterrestrial life possibly even being here, as far as microbes that enter our atmosphere, possibly on a regular basis through mediors or other reasons. Right, hopefully he will be even an Open Minds Radio one of these days. Right, Well, they said they were going to be on the show, so if I got to follow up on that, and hopefully we'll have him in
the next couple of weeks there. So I guess you know, basically, the idea of the of life ex interrestrial life is that that is already being dealt, not just by the Vatican, but by even by other institutions. It seems to be safe for people to be talking about bacteria or something. You know, all, yeah, there's life out there somewhere in the Costmos. But it's the start, you know. I mean, the next step is, well, life is not just there as the bacteria, but it's
coming here, being reported here, perhaps for hundreds of years. But even before Funas said anything. I think one of the things that you have in
your articles a couple of monsignors sorts who had talked about this before. Yeah, and what's interesting is that the monsignors who talked before, we're talking of another Jesuit, father Grasso, Domenico Grasso, and he was operating in the sixties and seventies and later of course, uh Monsignor Balducci, Corrado Balducci, who was the chief exorcist for the Vatican, and I knew him personally. Actually I met him a couple of times the the lact coal man. Yeah,
yeah, we had a bottle of wine one time. The difference though, between Balducci and Funess is that Balducci was never never had a headline or an interview in the Vatican Observer, so he was he was doing it on his own, probably with the acquiescence of the Vatican, obviously, because he was appearing all over Italian media, but not never like officially in the Vatican Observatory. Right, that's another step. But these guys got to be a
great article. But sorry, I gotta get job right here because we got to take another break. But when we come back, we'll let you finish your idea if you remember it, and then we'll get into the astec and their omens. So stay tuned, we'll be right back. You're listening to open Minds Radio on Campinet. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now, former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Minds
Radio Alejandro Rojas, Hello and welcome back to Open Minds Radio. This is your host, Alejandro Rojas, and we have Antonio Buneez, one of the premier speakers at the Mundia Cumbre. I can't say it, Mundi cumbre, mundi alog avne, the twenty being their word for UFO. Ovne is the acronym in all Latin languages for UFO. What is it sand for exactly the no identificato. The only thing is unidentified. You have to put it in
two. Oh, okay, it's the translation of the acronym UFO. But this is a special conference what we're talking about here, that's going on right now. So at open Minds dot tv right now you can watch the streaming of this conference that's happening. So it's going to be a lot of fun. You can check that out for I think it's like thirty bucks. It's dirt cheap. People to go on there and order and watch. Really, you have all the some of the main speakers in the world, you know,
and from from multiple continents and many many countries. Well, now that we're talking about Mexico, one of the stories that you have in the second magazine is Mexico's first ufo way and possibly I guess Mexico's biggest official at the time, Mana Zuma writing ufo. Yeah, that's that's a fascinating story.
I had done some a research project many years ago on historical UFOs, you know, the types of figures that appear in paintings and things like that, and I had a grant to do that, and it was in the in the process of that project that I discovered really that if you start reading all the chronicles of the Spanish conquest, you read it consistently in book after book, and I'm talking not just the modern books, but the actual books written
in the sixteenth century by the Spanish missionaries and some of the ownquistadors, and they all talk that for a period of perhaps even as much as ten years before the arrival of the Spaniards, which was in fifteen nineteen or nan Cortes, they were widespread weird phenomena, celestial omens and other strange stuff all over Mexico, all over the Aztec Empire, and this created a climate, with psychological climate which was linked to prophecies about the return of Catsakuado, you know,
the famous with both a god but also a legendary historical figure, a king of the Teltics from the tenth century, who supposedly had prophesied that he was going to come back. And all this worked the advantage of the Spaniards, of course, and they used it quite cleverly to their advantage, and you know, and accomplished the conquest. And this seemed to have obsessed the Aztec emperor Montezuma. I mean, he was terrified. He was absolutely terrify.
But he himself saw this. Some call it a comet or whatever it was. It was certainly a celestial object. It was seeing consistency. That probably was the comic. But if you read also the different accounts, it looks like different authors mentioned different years and different behaviors. So not all was I don't think everything can be explained just by that single comic. There was
a multiplicity of sightings as well as other phenomena. You know, when you guys were discussing the case of the birds that the hundred births that dropped, that's the kind of stuff that you find in these chronicles. Not exactly that, but you know that kind of weird omens. Well, speaking of weird birds, that the thing that you have in the story about this bird. The mechanical bird had some sort of jewel or mirror and a classic case.
Yes, so according to the story, there's some fishermen in the lake Tenochi clan, because at that time Tenochi Clan, which is now Mexican City, you know, was Venice. It was actually a lake city. It was canals and everything, and they found this what they described described as a bird,
except that it wasn't a normal bird. Instead of ahead, it had a round mirror, and they take it to Montezuma, and Montezuma looks at the mirror and sees stars, and then he sees an approaching army and the way one of the naw Wattle texts now waddle, you know, being the language spoken in Central Mexico at the time, is neat because of course the
Indians didn't know horses. There were no hostes in America, you know, Horses came with the Europeans, and originally this used to terrify the Indians when they saw these armored guys on horses, you know, they so anyway, they in the now Wattle texts, they described them as men riding on the back of deer, because I guess that was the closest they could this, this giant bee, right, So anyway, and then he calls again his
astrologers and sooth slayers and pronosticators, you know, this is the way they mentioned them, in other words, if they would be their chief scientific advisors, you know, and they come and by the time they're going to see on the mirror, the bird takes off. So I don't know what to make of it. Is you can you can interpret it. Of course, some people will dismiss it as a you know, it's just a fable,
a legend. Other people will say, well, you could give it and make a UFO interpretation that it was some kind of device and mechanical device, and that it had some projections that mont Assuma could see. And then once that message was conveyed, the thing took off. And then we even have what could be described as an abduction case of the of a peasant and poor farmer that I won't tell the whole story so that people can eventually read it,
but this guy is basically abducted by quote a talking ego. So again, this is not a normal bird, you know, it's a bird that takes into a cave and then talks to him. And as you know from some of the abduction accounts and the psychologists and people like like Mac call screen memories, sometimes people had these experiences with what they think are owls or raccoons or something kind They owl, yeah, the owl and other people have talked
about raccoons, and I believe even deer had been mentioned. Ye, I've heard of you know, people remembering their bed being surrounded by deer. Correct, So in this case is an eagle, which it would be consistent with aztect you know, Lord well, and being a scientific advisor to Montezuma was not necessarily something that was something that would end in anything. I don't know. Some of these guys had been at a sad ending essentially because I remember,
yeah, this is because it's a funny part. He was asking, as the advisors in the Astrologer, did you see that comment? And if they said no, they were in deep trouble. Were in deep trouble. They went to prison, some were even executed. And what's interesting is this appears in all the chronicles, I mean not every single story. You know.
That's why you eventually have to read a lot. I spent a lot of time researching this story, but in some of these chronicles are very famous, and especially the book by Sahagoon Bernardino, the Sahagoon who was the Franciscan
friar. He's been called the father of mes American anthropology. If he had lived in modern times, he would have been a scientist, not a priest, because he recorded every single aspect of the Aztec culture, everything their food, their medicines, their mythology, their history, their flora, and found beliefs, how they bury the dead, as every single as methodically. And
he had a pool. He knew the now one language perfectly, and he had a pool of now well informers, and these people would basically the original book was not even written in Spanish, was written in that language and then summarized by Sahagun himself into Spanish, and he has couple of chapters about the
omens. And then the other one, which is I think the parts that you read, was written by a Dominican friar called Diego Duran, and he is the one that really goes into a deep psychological profile of Montezuma and how he was well, I mean, the guy was getting all these omens or whatever, but some of them also came in the form of dreams or people were telling him basically that I mean, he was the most powerful man, you know, in the land, and that basically it was all going to
the end. So he wasn't a happy man. Yeah, he was freaking out, and yeah, the prophecy came true. That's the people may want to dismiss this thing as superstitious in some of the current books, you know, by modern historians, they oh, it was just meteorological astronomical phenomenon and the astic were superstitious people. Well maybe so, but the omens were really
turned out to be true. Also, what's interesting when you're dealing with historical possible historical UFO ways is, yes, you can still have to deal with natural phenomena, but certainly you did not have any kind of balloons or secret military aircraft or airplane, yeah, or or or stealth airplanes or whatever you know. I mean, so you have to basically reduce it to both either
meteorological or astronomical phenomena. Yeah. So out of the other articles that we're getting from people, we're going to have another Obama one from Grant and Angela. Was there any other aspect that I'm forgetting in that and that maybe either magazine you wanted to point out. Well, I think that we were trying to do is have a variety of subjects. So in in in every issue
we have like a pilot case. Of course, in the in the current issue, you know, we have the the interview with major tourists which was done for the cover story. That's a cover story, and he was an American Air Force pilot who was told long time ago shoot to shut them down, you know, And so that's our current story. But in the next issue we'll have a story by a famous case from friends by an Air France airline pilot. And of course in every story, in every issue we have
a major abduction case. In the current one we have a very interesting case. So it's an inbrate of an input removal, right, So that's another interesting one. So it's a great magazine. Everybody check it out. We are out of time for this show. Thanks for being on the show, Antonio. You're welcome. Always a lot of very interesting stuff. Be sure to join us next week and be sure to go to Openminds dot tv and order the magazine. Thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio, where we're bringing
the UFO subject into the light of day next week. Keith, forget the smell of the walls. Summer are the town sleek con SMA thing. If you watch your feet, the cracks are past hop, alien, sobber, like a whole movie for folks back on