Antonio Huneeus, Foreign UFO & Abduction Cases

This is open Minds Radio here again your host, UFO paranormal researcher and journalist, Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome to open Minds Radio, your UFO news authority. This is Alejandro Rojas and we are back in the Open mind studio. As those of you who are watching the video can tell. Remember you can watch us besides just hearing us live or on archive at openminds dot tv. So it looks like we got a few chatters and I should start the blog talk chat. Sorry, blog talker there, you go chat with

us. Remember, if you have any questions, you can go to the chat. You can ask your questions. We'll get them in there. And you're going to want to ask lots of questions today because we have hopefully an incredible guest. We haven't had that been able to get a hold of him unfortunately, so hopefully we'll get him on the line in the next few minutes. But George Filer, he was an Air Force pilot and intelligence officer, and he has had some extraordinary UFO encounters, including, believe it or not,

a crazy encounter with extra terrestrials that we'll be talking about. He's a really great guy. Many of you who are in this field know him by Filer's files because he was so interested by everything that happened to him that he started sending out emails with news and sightings and information. He's also a move fun director for the Northeast, so I'm really excited to talk to him.

He's got a great sense of humor, a funny guy, and maybe I shouldn't talk to him too much just in case he doesn't make it and we have to have Antonio again. But Antonio is wonderful, so it'll still be a great show and you'll still want to ask lots of questions. So go check out the chat Openminds dot tv. Right now. You'll notice that we're at our new time, seven pm. We're going to be going a full hour and a half without commercials, with just me and Jason and the guests

and a lot of news and info. So this is going to be really awesome. This is by request lots of listeners asking that we go to this format, so we said, okay, quitch and wine and we'll go back. Just kidding, but radio was a lot of fun. But it is a lot of fun to get because as you know, you know, we

always get cut off, can't get out to all the details. And I want to remind everyone again that the UFO Congress, we're going to be putting that on here in the Phoenix metro area and that will be February twenty third to the twenty seventh. We're already taking registrant. You're gonna want to get in early because really there are a limited number of rooms available at the hotel,

so you're gonna want to get in. We've bought out the entire hotel, so it's going to be just UFO junkies, so you want to get in early. Remember you could go to Ufocongress dot com or open Minds dot tv to register, So register early and at Ufocongress dot com. We've also got the majority of the speakers, so we've we're our way ahead of the game. We really have our stuff together like nobody's business. And we've got most of the guests already listed out. Lots of exciting guests. I'm excited

to see every one of them. I'm excited to see George Filer, who we're going to have as a guest, and I'd be really excited if he would. We could get a hold of him here so we can have him on our show as planned. But anyway, what we usually talked about this time is news. However, Jason really frustrated me this week and I fired him. Just kidding. We're still going to talk about news Open Minds dot

TV practically daily. We have news headlines up and these are conventional headlines where you know, news agencies are talking about UFOs and UFOs are in the news a lot. And Jason McClellan, our news correspondent, is here sitting right next to me instead of across the board like before, to tell us all about the news. Jason, how are you? I'm excellent, my friend, how are you? That's magic. He's telepathively doing this too. You

notice he doesn't need a microphone. He's even more talented than I am. Your brain is a microphone. Hello world, This is your Open Minds news breef for Monday, August thirtieth, twenty ten. Author Leslie Keene made her appearance on The Cober Report last week to talk about her book UFOs General Pilots and government Officials Go on the Record. On the show, she mentioned the two thousand and six Chicago O'Hare UFO incident where a UFO was seen hovering above

the airport and then shot straight up out of sight. Since Keene's mentioning of this on national television, there's been renewed interest in the incident, and Google even noticed a spike in search traffic from people seeking information about the O'Hare UFO incidents. That's cool, yeah, I mean she mentioned that. What I thought was interesting is she mentioned on the show that that was like the number one website hit, you know, way back then for the Chicago Tribune.

And then they came out and said it's still the number one news story they've ever had. And then it also because it gets all this regeneration, became yah one of their top stories last week. And still with this story from two thousand and six, there's still no explanation for what happened to Chicago O'Hair.

Well, that's kind of cool too, because John Hilkovich, the guy who did the story, the journalist he pursued the found what we usually find is that the FAA and the government were kind of stonewalling and not giving him information. It was an eye opening experience for him and he has n't back down. I was half expecting him to say, oh, you know, maybe it was this or that, but he hasn't backed down and he still sticks to his guns that he's never got a satisfactory answer, that the FAA

and that United Airlines gave him the run around. So yeah, like you said, it's still an unknown. This is also an interesting story too, because it's one of those cases where there were several witnesses, and these witnesses were pilots, They were US Air employees and ground crew who worked for the airport. Yeah, it wasn't just a bunch of passengers on an airplane pointing and saying, look something in the sky. Yeah. These are people who

worked there every single day. Yeah, people who worked there. And supposedly there were possibly pictures, although none there's been rumors of some coming two life, but none have really shown up. Right. Here's an interesting statistic, at least I found it interesting of the Brits claims who have either seen a ghost or a UFO. That's according to a recent survey of three thousand British people, and a surprising one in five think that aliens could be living among

us. Really, I didn't notice the one in five one in five. Holy moly, those Brits. That's why they're UFO crazy out there. So the question is is it a result of them just being more interested in all of this, or is it because their government's been coming out with more information that they're a little more educated. And the funny thing is is that would

show that base value. The purpose of the government releasing the UFO bioles was to show that there's nothing to it, but it's not having that effect. It doesn't seem people are thinking, Wow, there's something more to this than what they are been telling us. The numbers were surprising, and I think it's really cool and it's probably right on, but I do have to point out that possibly the people who did the survey were biased because they were doing

the survey for an upcoming movie. Oh really, one of those mini movies coming out about extraterrestrials and UFO. So I believe this one was the I Am Number four. Yeah, a lot of them coming out next year, so this year as well, later this year. Really, which one later this year? Do you remember? That? Would be the Battle La Guy Skyline Skyline but now, oh yeah, it's supposed to come out in November. But Battle La Battle Los Angeles is suing them right, so they might

be postponed. It's possible it will not come out this year, but I believe Skyland is scheduled for a November release. Gotcha. Wang Sitschow was in the news again. The Chinese researcher and planetarius astronomer from the Purple Mountain Observatory of the Chinese Academy of Sciences stated last week that he believes extraterrestrials do exist

and they have the ability to travel to Earth. He does not share Stephen Hawking's opinion, however, that if extraterrestrials come to Earth, they will destroy humanity. Rather, Stitchow feels it's too early to jump to that conclusion. He believes that if extraterrestrials we consider end up being friendly, then we can

cooperate with them and give them a positive view of humans. But if they aren't friendly, Sitchow thinks we could defend ourselves and defeat the attacking extraterrestrials by exploiting their weaknesses, but it'd probably take a while to figure out what their weaknesses are. Well, he probably feels that way because he's you know, they've got all those cung fu guys over there to protect them. We don't have well, we've got a lot of kung fu here, so maybe we

would. It's interesting he's in the news so much, this guy, And what is more interesting and kind of sad is all the people somehow Wang Si Chow, who's one astronomer in China, represents the whole entire country, because now you have all these stories that China is saying this, and China is pro us so many stories saying that, claiming that what this guy says represents China. China says that aliens exist. Yeah, but this is one astronomer

people. I know, it's great to hear somebody talking about this, but he does not represent the entire Chinese government at least I don't think he does. Be excited. If he does, we need to get a hold of him. Yeah, they must have some impressive weapons. He knows about them too. That's a cool observatory they have there, though Purple Mountain does a lot. And yeah, he's been in the news every week though. Yeah,

well you've been researching Purple Mountain observatory. And he said you didn't find him listed in their staff though I looked at their staff and I didn't see him on the website, so I wonder if he's fictitious. Yeah, People's Daily has just created this person. Like the city of Roswell, New Mexico,

is standing behind his annual UFO festival. There were concerns earlier this year that the city would no longer fund the festival because it wasn't mentioned in the preliminary budget, But on Wednesday, the city approved funding for the festival and the amount of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The city council wanted to reevaluate whether the money was being spent wisely or not. Now that the money has been approved, council members say they will be watching it like hawks.

So this unfortunate situation. You know how this rolled out, which was really sad, is that they say that they're going to revisit the budget before the event starts, so people got scared. The major headliner, which would have brought people from around probably ten to thousands of people from around the world, Billy Ray Cyrus pulled out the most famous what is that haircut called with the

mullet, so all of the most famous mullets. Now people love that guy, and he pulled out because of these budgetary problems, and then they end up approving the same budget that they've had anyway, So just bad timing. They shouldn't have said anything after the event, and now as we see, they never had to say anything anyway. Who are probably hoping that he would pull out and replace with his daughter. Yeah, Hannah Montana, Hannah Montana.

I still know it's Hannah Montana. That's my niece. She used to watch and she liked So my wife saw that on TV and couldn't figure out for years that Hannah Montana and Miley Cyrus were actually different people. Oh, what do you mean? Sorry, Elejandro, did mean to burst your bubble. This is a really cool story from last week. A UFO was captured on a motion activated camera in Fort Worth, Texas. Last week. The camera used by hunters to spot deer photographed an object in the sky that is

a string of several symmetrical lights. According to photo time stamps, the object hovered in the sky for nearly two hours. Yep. So this has made a lot of news. It was on LA Times. You know, we posted it, but since then it's you know, as soon as we post it, then everybody picks it. Up. But I've been on major news all over the place and i haven't seen I don't know if you haven't any of these stories, any explanation for what it might be, no explanation.

You know that the person who owns the camera said that, you know, they've ruled out things like vehicles because there are no roads in the area. It's very secluded. Also sell Antanna's there aren't any It's just a very secluded area. There's nothing back there that could explain these lights. I'm not sure what it is. At first I thought it could possibly be a car like

a bus driving buy or something. But this thing is sort of a bove the line, so I thought maybe it was what is glowing bugs fly around that it could be something like that, but that area doesn't have them, I guess. But firefly fireflies there you go, because maybe the wing clapping creates because bugs often have that kind of you know where you see string of

light effects, string of kind of effects, right, very strange. After thirty years of researching, a forty nine year old Australian eupologist has finally seen his own UFO. Eric Black of Bisbane, Australia, became fascinated with UFOs a childhood and has spent his lifetime researching them, but until recently, he had never seen a UFO with his own eyes. While vacationing in Australia's Northern Territory, Black saw something that at first he thought with a low flying plane.

He described the object as an amber colored hamburger shaped thing with black dots on the top, and he also said it was several times brighter than venus. The UFO hovered above him for thirty seconds before it rapidly disappeared, and he was so excited by what he was seeing that he forgot to take picture, even though he had his camera right there with him. Yeah. Well, sometimes she get really excited. I completely understand the feeling because I've had

it happen to me. Yeah, exactly, and I think a lot of people. You know, It's funny because the first UFO siding I had, and I was an investigator for several years by now, and I you know, you just stand there with your jaw, you know, you're just trying

to figure out what you're looking at. And this other lady who had seen UFOs before, she was behind me, and all of a sudden, I hear from her way over here to my right, and she's like, well, it looks like it's fading out, and she's got her binoculars on it. I mean she was. She zoomed out to her car, grabbed her binoculars and trained him on the object. Pretty good. I'm going to go back to a story that I skipped here, and I apologize to our director

who's controlling the show. I skipped over a story and she's going to be very angry at the pictures are all mixed out. That's right, all right. For moth now, residents of Halifax have been seeing strange objects in the sky. It seems to be regular UFO activity in the UK, but Halifax

and its surrounding areas have been buzzing with UFO sightings lately. A bright orange hovering ball is what many residents have described seeing recently, but one witness suspects that the silent hovering objects he observed could be some sort of spycraft of earthly origin. But the majority of what people have been seeing in this area are these bright orange balls that hover with no noise and then just sort of disappear

and still no explanation. Some of them are almost certainly the Chinese lanterns that a lot of people see. Now, well, then how do they get from China to the UK? Wind is powerful, my friend? The currents? Yeah, now right, the Chinese lanterns. We still have to do our experiment on the Chinese lanterns. But they're so popular. Yeah, right now, they're really cool. So I'm not What I'm surprised by is the orange ones are the only ones that seem to be seen. Four things that

are blamed on Chinese lanterns. Chinese landards come in a variety of colors. Any color you want, you can get a Chinese lands Oh, you can get blue, you can get red, you can get white, and get green. I would definitely get a blue Chinese lantern. Yeah, blue would be cool. So now what you're saying is now all these other colored balls of lights could be Chinese lanterns too. Well, yeah, but that's not what we hear of. We hear these orange balls and a lot of them.

The way the movements are described, right, and a lot of the movement can be explained by wind, currents and things. Because it's high altitudes, these things can move and then shift rapidly, and a lot of people don't understand that. But you know some of the other movements with stopping hovering and then shooting straight up and then coming back and not Chinese lannards. My friend well on the story of the guy who said he saw him beaming the

lamb his sheep and then finding the sheep dead in the morning. That's that's a Chinese lenner. That's probably defective and they should get their money back. Yeah, that's true. Here's a cool story. On August twenty first, a Central Valley, California family driving home called the Mutual UFO Network State Director Jeffrey Gonzalez to report witnessing a triangle shaped craft making a hard landing on a mountain side outside Presnel, California. The craft supposedly attempted to take off again

after crashing, but was unsuccessful. Unmarked vehicles reportedly arrived at the scene very quickly, and what appeared to be an arc welding light was seen at the crash. That evening. There were scorch marks at the crash site and Jeffrey Gonzalez was able to record these on video and will make the video available as

soon as it has been processed. Some are speculating though that the crash object is the alleged top secret Air Force TR three B nuclear powered flying triangle, which if you are watching our video right now you would see a cool TR three B, well maybe in a minute or something that there. It is that our buddy Michael Stratt, who works with us created because he's done a

lot of work on this. In fact, we can plug something here our video that we have online of Michael Stratt talking about some of this stuff. On our YouTube, you can see the whole lecture for only three bucks. That's cheaper than buying a DVD. Or we've got some clips too. We've probably got yeah, we've got stories in the magazine on this and everything.

So really cool looking vehicle, it would be. I can't wait. Of course, everybody's waiting for these pictures and these videos to see what he's got because if you can see some stingray type of triangular aircraft landed on the ground

on this hill, that would be pretty damn cool, very cool. And something interesting about this TR three B that I just found out is, you know there's a lot of well, of course, with any alleged top secret military craft that nobody knows about, there are also rumors by people who think the government is out to fool us, which they possibly may be. That this is all just made up by the government. There's no such thing as a TR three B. They just created it to have an explanation for all

the triangle shaped UFOs that people see interesting that could be too. I guess m you never know what the heck is going on with these UFOs, Jason. That's what we're here to find out, right, Alejandro, that's it for the news. Remember to check out these stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm your Open Minds News correspondent Jason McLellan and you've been briefed. Ah right, thank you, Jason.

Now talking about the and more. Part that Jason had mentioned was at some of the other stories is that we have up on the website this week, some really cool ones. Pretty much our biggest lately, our biggest scoop news scoop is of course from Antonio again, who had a rare document related to a famous sighting in Brazil off the Trinidad Islands. And these are some photos, Hey, Jason R. Mike Stone. These are some famous photos that

you can see on our website. But what Antonio had was a document that was written by the guy who was involved with taking the first pictures, and it has come out that supposedly a cousin of a cousin actually I think it's maybe even a sister, a family member, claims that on his deathbed he said, I hoax those things. The problem is the president and some of the others were involved with this whole incident, and there were a lot of

witnesses that were actually Brazilian navy who saw this thing. So how could he have hoped something that people had seen as a question? You know, what do you do with all these other witnesses? How could it all be a hoax? And this and that and that, And you could read the details of this in the story. But still, it's kind of cool that Antonio was able to find this document. We had it translated by a coworker who speaks I think they speak Portuguese out there, and we were able to put

that online. To this debate going on about these Trinidad UFO photos. Kind of exciting because it's it's an incredible event that took place where all of these navy guys had seen this thing, so a lot of questions still exist, of course when it comes to that. We just posted a story today from Michael Schratt yet again, like we were talking about on the UFO case files

that he has been putting out. Essentially, what he did is he went to some mofon and KUFOS files, KUFOS being the center for UFO studies, and he is an illustrator. He creates aero planes and different types of devices in AutoCAD and is able to render these in three D and then he'll often put those overlaid on top of a scene that is similar to the where the witnesses had seen the craft. And he's done that with a lot of these

stories with the details behind these case files, so that's pretty cool. We've got a story on all of those movies that Jason had talked about and what's coming out there. We also have Jason wrote a story on different tourist spots, so if you're trying to get in a vacation still still here at the end of the summer, you'll be able to check that out. We also have some people mentioned in our magazine. Our last magazine, by the way,

was dedicated to abductions and we had a lot of stories there. Really if you know nothing, and if you're skeptical about the whole abduction alien abduction thing, which I can understand. I was a big skeptic until I really went and did some build work, you know, hands on getting out there to know people who had claimed they were abductees and finding out that, yeah,

they probably were abductees. And Stan Romanek, of course, is a case that I have checked out before, and we had a story on him as well as an interview in the magazine, and the interview was kind of an excerpt of a longer interview, and we have that entire interview now up on the website for people to check out. I know some people were asking about that because some people got their magazines before we got that up, so luckily that is up now. And then we also have some cool stories from

the USSR. I say that because these were stories from before, you know, the whole breakup and before the USSR had totally crumbled again. This is an Antonio story which is really cool, where he had a lot of files and a lot of cases that happened back then that he put together into There are so many of these stories that we broke them up into two stories,

but mostly this was airplane pilots with radar type situations. Lots of really cool stories and pictures of some of these people who had these experiences, so you can check that out as well. So really cool stuff there. We're working on the fifth issue already of our magazine, even though you guys haven't gotten The Force. The Force is going to print and will be out in probably just a few weeks, maybe four weeks or something like that. I'm not

sure exactly when, but we're really excited about the fourth issue. It has to do with UFO landings, So you're going to want to go and subscribe to the magazine at Open Minds doat TV before everybody else does and we run

out of these. We mainly centered around the Rendalshimp case because the Rendal Sham Anniversary is happening in December, and that was when in nineteen eighty you know a lot of US Air Force people had seen some UFOs and investigated these UFOs out in the UK and a base that we were releasing from the Brits, from the Royal Air Force, and it's just an incredible event. It's very

well documented. A lot of official documents that have come forward with these Air Force people and their experiences, including and even CNN ran this quite some time ago, some audio of one of the more exciting investment negations around the rendals from Force, where you can hear these guys out in the forest looking for this thing and getting all excited about it. So really cool case, and we've done it in a way I think that is more thorough and kind of

more complete than others. Sometimes people don't include all three events, they just include, you know, two of them, because the event can be very different the third event that happened. There's possibly or at least some alleged et type of activity there. But so really exciting. We're really excited about that magazine coming up here, and we're working on the fifth right now. It's going to be more of a lot of different stories on the fifth instead of

being focused just around one thing. So you'll have to check that out. And we are going to take a little bit of a small break, and when we get back from that break, hopefully we'll have George Filer. If not, we'll have someone just as interesting on the show. So stay tuned. Open Mind Production is Provate present the twentyth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress coming to it's a new home with the Rabits and portmant Galley, Sort and

Casino and a Scout Still, Arizona. This is the premier annual event for UFO researchers, enthusiasts, and a general public with an interest in mysterious phenomenon. Come listens, expert ethologists, government officials, and respective scientists presenting information relating to the UFOs, extraterrestrials, crop circles, abduction cover ups and more. The largest UFO conference in the country, the twentieth Anniversary of the International

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by experts in the field of upology. The ever expanding line of products, including DVDs, books, and branded open Mind merchandise make the open Mind Store and online destination worth visiting. Frequently. Brows the store today at store dot openmind dot tv to see the latest editions. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now former official spokesperson for the mutual UFO Network, your host of

open Miyes Radio, Alejandro Rojas. All right, welcome back. We don't have George Filer but we got one of his good buddies, and so you're gonna have to answer for George. We've got Antonio and uh, let's do it. Do you have his mic on Antonio say hello? He look Hi? Not yet, so that'll work on that. But some of the things, let me tell the guys, some of the things we'll talk about once they get your microphone working, and that will be some of the latest stories

that we have. We'll talk more in detail, which is kind of cool because I want to talk more about this to Trinidad case. And something I forgot to mention earlier also was the French situation, because I think that's a really cool kind of dynamic because we've talked about this and let's start here. Let's see, I guess they got the mic working, so say something.

Okay, is it working? I guess according to them, huh. But the French situation, a lot of people keep talking about, Oh, there are governments around the world who are talking about UFOs and pro UFO and all of this stuff. But that really doesn't seem to be the case in at least my opinion, and I think we share the same opinion. There. The only country who is more proactive about actually investigating UFOs, not just taking reports. It's France, so maybe we could start off talking more about that.

Tell me about the document that we had just recently posted, right, Well, this document which has gotten quite a bit of attention in our website because luckily, you know, because most of the American apologies don't read French,

so you know, it's maybe someone would have scooped us. But and basically, as I explained in the article, it's not an official document, but it comes from a professional society SO which is known as the three AF, which means Astronomical and Astronautical Association of France, so three AF, which is a very large professional society of astronomers and aeronautical engineers and you know, professional people similar to groups we have in the United States, but difference inside

those groups of the United States don't do UI full committees. Actually they used to. You look at the history of UPOS in the sixties, there were similar things, the Triple As Association for the Advance. You know, we had just sink where it's a little bit off tangible all stairs back on. But right, one of the stories I did recently was on astronomers and UFOs and not only we had a group similar with the Astronomical Association of America something

like that, similar, but they said they came to different conclusions. And the content report, which is was what the Air Force used to justify closing the Blue Book investigations. So basically what this group did in Friends is they created a committee back in two thousand and eight. It's like an official committee within their group. But even though they are not official a part of the

government, it's anybody that reads the report which we translated. It's clear that they had excellent connections with the government because then again, most of the people involved in this association are former pilots and former military, retired military people and you know, professionals that are involved with either the government or various industrial organizations. And one of the more interesting parts of this report, and this, by the way, it's only a progress report, so this is not the

final document. We don't know how long it's going to take them. They don't say they've only been in existence for a couple of years. They've put a couple of smaller documents before, but this is a progress report, so it's still sort of informal. The way it's drafted I imagine that their final report would be something more similar to Comita, which they mentioned several times,

and their conclusions were basically identical to Comita. And for those who are not familiar with COMITA, although I guess most of our listeners are, this was again not one hundred percent official report, but was a committee created by former members of mostly their armed forces and intelligence groups in France, but retired and they created a pretty official looking group, although they spoke as retired officers,

and they released a famous report back in nineteen ninety nine which again was very positive towards the existence of UFOs in these both of these instances, were any you know, still serving officers or generals supportive, like vocally supportive. Did they receive any sort of support? They didn't receive any negative comments from the government, did they Well. The Comedia report was criticized, but I don't know that it was criticized by the government. It was criticized by a lot

of by the press and by civilian more conservative type civilian mythologists. And some of the criticism was because there was a little bit of confusion. A lot of people, especially in the international media and international American UNIFO groups made it

sound like it was an official report. In fact it wasn't. So some of that was just kind of a misunderstanding, kind of like we talked about earlier, were Wang saw similar represents the entire Chinese Yeah, and again, I mean we've had similar situations even in America when when Bruce McCabe, for instance, who's retired now, but he used to be an optical physicist who worked at the Naval Research Laboratory Weapons Laboratory as a civilian scientist, but obviously

all his UFO reports and UFO analysis were doctor Bruce mccaby, you know, the private scientist. He never pretended to be representing the navy. But let's say that someone in another country saw his credentials, they say, oh, lady says UFOs exist, right, it was black at these opinion. So but what's interesting about this latest report is that they obviously had a lot of

corporation from the French military. Because if you remember, you when when when you boasted it that in the early part of the report, they actually list all the different agencies that they're visited, and they went to all these secret military bases and met with generals and they were shown stuff and raided. They even talk about reports that were done by some French intelligence agencies that have never

been released. I've never seen them. I mean I've seen some, but not There's one particular one coming from one of these directors of French intelligence. I've never seen that report. So and they even said at the end that they were shown stuff that they cannot even disclose. So obviously there's there was. They had full corporation from French with airy forces, which was quite interesting.

Of course, they also went to Japan or Japan as it's called now, which is that is the official investigation by the French government, by the

French National Space Center, the equivalent of NASA. If you posted in our website the link to an article the Smithsonian magazine Air and Space, which they actually I think it was called Department of Flying Saucers or something like that, which in fact is what you were saying before, if you friends, is really one of the few countries many countries have some kind of UFO Department of sorts, but usually like I can think of uay Chile, well, the

UK used to have it through the Ministry of the Face Brazil, but usually these countries are always connected more to the air force, and the emphasis of the agency is not so much to investigate UFOs per se, but to see if there's any defense implications. In other words, you know, their job is to protect the airspace of that country, and these things are flying around,

they have to know whether they are friend or foe. Basically, presumably we have something like that in America too, but it's undeclared, unacknowledged Michael

Stretchers. But in France it's a little different. I mean, even though the military also have had, of course some reports and some investigations going as far back as nineteen fifty one, and also the agency that is charged with taking the actual reports from civilians, from the witness from anybody, a farmer or an engineer whoever sees a UFO is there, Centire Mary, which is

the sort of the it's not the regular police. It would be similar to what we call state troopers here, and it belongs to the to the administrative Defense, but it is sort of a militarized functions like a military agency. But that police functions does the borders and you know, counter terrorism, all

kinds of things. And since at least the well they've investigated cases as far back as the fifties, but at least since the nineteen seventies mid seventies, they've had official regulations to actually take reports from UFOs, I mean from the

public about UFOs. So it is part of their duty. If you are living in France, whether you're a French or immigrant or whoever, and you see a UFO, you can call the Jandamerie and they are not supposed to laugh at you, but they send an agent or they I mean if but they are supposed to take things seriously, and they since they have obvious seen policemen tren darns all over the country, including overseas regions of France, like

you know the French Guiana in South America, the Union Island. Remember we published then interesting article about the Mischielan man in Runion Island. Those were investigated. That was even before the Space Agency has Japan. So those were just investigated by the Gendarmerie. They send their agent, He interviews the witness, they elaborated a report and then all that data goes to Japan, which is used. Originally it was used for statistical purposes. If a report it's interesting

enough, in other words, it looks like a solid case. Then Japan follows it up and sends one of their team investigators and then they conduct further So France has a pretty elaborate system and it's an actual investigation system, and I think that's what people need to understand, because even when the UK did this up until like about a year ago or so, not even that yet late last year, they were still only kind of shifting paperwork around. They

were taking reports and sending them, just keeping a record. And you know, I see both of us are friends with Nick Pope. Nick Pop because he became interested in the phenomenon and later became a famous sophologist. I think he went a little bit beyond his official duties and actually, you know, try to investigate some of these cases. But apparently some of the people that were either before or after him, you know, it's it's just a bureaucratic

thing. You take a report, maybe you make a couple of phone calls, make sure that it's it wasn't one of your jets or something like that,

and that's it. It gets filed away. And as you know, the Brigish, basically they were always they were saying of no defense significance and that was sort of their mantrum, you know, like because again, if the Ministry of Defense would have said, let's say about Bedwater, so any case, yeah, this case has defense implications, then what's next, you know, then they have to really do a follow up investigation and do something about it. If they say it's of no defense significance, then they can

they can move on. So Francis, it really has an interesting system them. And also have to keep in mind that Francis is a developed countries, a major I mean, they got they've had atomic weapons since since the nineteen sixties. I mean you're not talking of the you know, of a minor

country. And also they're known for being a very rationalist country. You know, they don't take things, you know, they're not gullible particularly And what's interesting about both the Comita report and this later report by the Triple af is they both are saying that these objects are not secret weapons, which has elicited some comments, you know, on our website, because I guess many people do believe that most most UFOs are these I noticed you were talking earlier about

the secret triangles, and actually Jason came up with a great theory maybe they don't exist it's just exactly and well. And that's what's great about that that that report you're talking about, because they even give some sort of weight to the possibility of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Yes they say that's not proven, but that it definitely cannot be ruled out. Also, they the same thing like Comita. Remember Comita, even of the titles was the defense Implications of the

Upho Phenomenon. And these were generals, top generals, you know. One of them, General Letti, is one of the people who wrote one of the essays and Leslie King's recent book. And so the French seem to be

saying going far beyond the other countries. They are not saying, I mean, they're not only saying this is a real phenomenon, which is sort of the easy cop out, but saying that it's possibly extraterrestrial they definitely cannot be ruled out, although it cannot be proven as of yet, and also that it has a defense implication, because what is the implication if you have these objects flying with impunity over airspace of developed countries and know and just doing basically

whatever they please. And uh in in in the in the Triple A f report, they even mentioned it's an all Latin term castle's belly, which means bellicos, you know, belly from well from bellicos, you know, from warlike, which is basically like almost reason for war. I mean, if you're violating someone's airspace, that is almost is an aggression, right, it's

or potentially an aggression. So they even even raise that that subject, and so I mean, that's what I think, That's what just I think needs to be a point that needs to be made is that France is pretty much the only country out there who is really actively investigating and taking a real serious and being brave enough to say that this is a serious issue, right,

we need to investigate. The Japan they're a little bit being that as opposed to Comita or the Triple A f who are not speaking officially, whereas Monsieur Blanc you know, Eglan Blank, he's in the current head of the Japan he is if he says something, you know, then he is speaking for the French government. So they're a little bit more toned down on their statements.

Although Jean Jaques Velasco, who used to be there, he's retired now and he's been very outspoken over the years, but more so when since he's

retired. But basically there's Japan. They stay away a little bit of talking about the national security implications, but they've always said especially since they had such solid cases going all the way back, you know, those landing cases like the Transit Provence famous landing case which is mentioned in this current report that was in nineteen eighty one, and another case in Nancia known as lamarant from amarants

from the I guess it was that plant called amaranths. I guess it landed, And these were small objects that landed in these fields and did all kinds of biochemical changes on the plants. So you were saying Japan, and their stand is that it's real, that is real and physical. They leave it at that. They don't go the next step saying it's probably at the restaur or whatever, but they do say that it's a real stimuli unexplained since they

obviously cannot explain it as either natural phenomena or man made. So and that the most important part. I think that was the turning point for Japan, where these physical landing cases of nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one, and they also had a couple more, but those are the two best known, because now you had a phenomenon that was actually affecting the environment, so it was not so easy to discard as something. And they send the planets samples and

this is by the way, very different from crop circles. These were not geometric formations, but basically something with mass and energy had landed and affected the terrain, and the plants were sent to various laboratories of the French government universities and some other government labs, and the scientists discovered all these crazy stuff, basically like the chlorophyll of the plants was gone after the object had landed.

And even more strange, this was said by this biochemist called Bunias, which the plants. This was in the Transit province case. The plants were young physiologically young, but after the incident they became biochemically old. They aged, So how can you do what can provoke that in nature? And that led and this was actually an official conclusion in the final Zapan report that it was

probably a propulsion, some kind of advanced propulsion, unknown advanced propulsion. So I think there are also bearing in that direction, but they just have to be a little bit more curful in their final stage. And that would be then the answer for someone who just asked about in the chat, what is Francis position on UFO Japan Japan, It would essentially be making that stance and just what you said, where they think it's a real phenomena, physical,

physical phenomena that exists and that it affects the environments. Right, So let's move from France. And that was some good stuff I think, but I also wanted to get into then Trinidad. Yeah. Well, as you know, and this has been all over the uphological forums. What happened was that about two weeks ago Fantastical, which is a very very prime time, extremely popular TV show in Brisil, say Fantastical, Yeah, would be fantastic any

translation. Actually I was interviewed once that show, but years ago. Because they've covered many times UFOs and what's interesting is normally they'd be very positive towards UFOs, but this last program, which was broadcast in early August, was

quite negative. They basically debunked most of the Brazilian famous cases except the one famous way what it's known as the ninth of the UFOs and iron Outics, which happened in nineteen eighty six, in which jets were scrambled all over Brazil and the General the Minister of the Air Force made official statements and all that. So that remained as a good case, but some of the other cases

where they took a negative spin. But the most famous probably was this sequence of photographs known as Trindade Island, which appears in practically every single UFO book ever published since nineteen fifty eight. Routing there, I noted very Leslie Kings

book two, their very very famous sequence of photographs. Partly even though they were taken by a civilian photographer called al Niro Barraguna and Baruna, but they were taken on boarder Brazilian Navy ship because it was part of the International Geophysical Year, so they had civilians I guess there as observers or whatever, and they were seen in this deserted island in the middle of that plantic ocean which

belongs to Brazil. This happened on January sixteenth, nineteen fifty eight, and many crew members of course saw the UFO, as well as people of a diving team which Barauna was part of, and he took the sequence of six photos of which the two I guess didn't come very good for are the classics,

and the case was kept quiet. After the ship docked at port, the Navy took a hold of the case and investigated it, and eventually a dosire with the photos and some navy conclusions reached the president of Brazil at that time, a man called Juicellino Kugichek, and this was quite remarkable because the Navy had kept it quiet, but he was so excited. I guess he

was kind of a visionary. You know, he's the one that moved the capital of Brazil to Brazilia or started the construction, because he said Brazil needs to move towards the interior. Had always all the population had always been in the coast during colonial and early independence, so he was known as as a visionary. He saw these photographs and said, this is too important to remain secret, and he gave into a reporter from a newspaper called the Morning Career

Correlo Correo de Magiana, which were Morning Courier. We actually published the clipping in our article and the maintron page, and after that it became a famous famous case. Now, Barawuna was a very skilled photographer, so even from the early days, some people have always maintained that these photos must have been

host but there was no proof. Then in this fantastical program, they interviewed this friend of Baraguna Uh, a woman who worked for an ad agency or used to work for an AD agency, called a Melia Bitancour, and she said that Barauna had confessed to her. We don't know when because the interview was very short. It was basically we reproduced of course it was all in Portuguese, but we reproduced the translation. And basically she said that what Barawuna

did is he took two tablespoons. I just cut them and made a sausage with them, and then took a photo using the home refrigerator at the background. And I guess then they were over in post. She didn't say that, but I guess implications speak. So obviously the pictures you see the island and the coast, so then it would have to be in double exposure. You make it, and that was it, And so of course the skeptics say, oh, finally, confession. You know, the photographer confessors,

even though it's a second hand confession. There's the niece there too, although she would not appear on camera, but according to the host of the TV show said that the niece also had confirmed this and that was it. So immediately there was a lot of fuss about it, and the skeptics were delighted.

So were finally we have a confession, the other people said, But whether there were yeah, so, but there are other witnesses right on the correct Well, what I say at the end of the article I posted on our website is that even if the photos were hoaxed by Barauna, which I actually don't think so, but I remain opened in the sense that he was

a skilled guy and he was known to have other photos. We reproduced the photo that he had hoaxed in nineteen fifty four, but upfront, not not tricking people to say this isn't this, this was an experience, right. And then there were some other hoax that supposedly he had done as a diver, but it had nothing to do with UFOs. It was some safe that they claim it was an old French say or something, so that's unrelated to

UFOs. But of course skeptics will say, well, but this is a guy that used to hoax, perhaps, but still nevertheless, even if the photos were hoaxed. It's still the case. That doesn't debunk the whole case. It would only debunk the photos taken during that sighting, because if it was reported that about fifty people saw it, they were in fact, there were other sightings that was not even their only sighting. People saw the guy taking pictures on the deck of the ship, and if he had hoaxed them,

he would have had very little time. Although one of the suspicious things that was always pointed out by people is that when he developed the film, I don't think he had a dark room, so he must have made a dark room either out of the out of the bathroom or somewhere, but he was alone. Nobody saw him developed the film, so that people, well, because it was probably very small, he didn't want to be disturbed. So even if the pictures aren't real, the event took place where people had

this sighting. And beyond that, you made another good point. Yeah. The other good point is me being originally from Chile, and of course we went through a very tough period in Chile of the Pinochet. You know, we had a military dictatorship for seventeen years. Brazil had a horrible military dictatorship

for years and most South American countries had at one time or another. So I frankly knowing and especially you have to go back to that period, during the period of the Cold War, that was the heyday of the military dictatorships, because basically they could get away with it. The United States were so concerned about communism that they actually support all these military dictatorship. They sold them

weapons, they trained their officers, and so on. So I found it not impossible, because of course nothing is impossible, but hard to believe that a guy would trigger you for hoax right inside a Navy ship and then he was interrogated by the Navy intelligence and everything, and kept the hoax going that you could get life, you could get in serious trouble, and then just kept it going forever. Of course, people said, well, he didn't know they're going to be so famous, you know whatever. But I think

that's an important point. But the main news that we did in our story is that we found I found in my files this this document which was a whole description of the case written by Baraguna himself, signed by him, and with even a little drawing of his ship, done in nineteen sixty seven, and which I believe I'm not even one hundred percent sure I've had it in my files for a long time, but I probably, as I say in the article, probably came from one of my mentors, you know, which

was disgusted in my first interview here, colemun Goonkdinski, the old Hungarian American colonel, because he had corresponded with Barawuna and he had good qualities prints which he received I guess from Barawuna himself. Now, I thought that this document was probably known in Brazil, but apparently wasn't because we're getting a lot of attention now from Brazilian so they're quite excited that here's a full new document by

the author of these famous photographs. Y. So we'll talk a little bit about what is in that that letter after we take a break here in a minute, and then we'll also get into more subjects. Someone was saying, man, this is reel nuts and booked, so we'll start to talk about more of the controversial all right, extraterrestrial real life heated topics. Here in just a minute, we're gonna take a short break so we can powder our noses and we'll be back soon. So stay tuned. Open Minds from radio.

Are we muted? My open Minds production is in stores now. Open Minds Magazine is you're look inside the fascinating world of UFO related phenomena including extraterrestrials, abductions, cattle mutilations, cross circles, alien implants, and more. Open Mindes Magazine provides readers with current research, investigations, and news, all delivered in a stunni graphical presentation. Pick up your copy today and prepare to

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February twenty third through February twenty seventh. To the Ufocongress dot com for more information, including sponsorship and vendor opportunities. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now former official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Minds Radio, Alejandro Rojas. All right, welcome back to open Minds Radio. You know what, like I said, if you go to open mind

stat TV you can watch us here. You can see our studio. Perhaps some of you weren't around when we were in our studio before, So let us know what you think. I mean, usually people used to think this looks pretty cool, So let us know what you think. Let us know what you think about sound? Hello, Hello, can you hear me? Know how everything sounds and looks at so we can tweet things to make your

open mind experience a phenomenal and incredible experience. Well, someone in the chat said, you know what, Well, you're talking too much nuts and bolts. Well, our last magazine issue was about abduction. But before we get to that, I don't want to forget. Was there anything special or that people didn't know about that you found in that barrel Owuna. Well, I

don't know that. I mean, especially in the sense that apparently is a document that most people in Brazil, for some reason or another, didn't have. Because we even got an email from Jbi ed Right, who was the main Brazilian apologist, and he was all excited about it. So I apparently maybe they weren't too many copies made of that document. Who knows. I think the details of the description of the case as he tells them there seemed

to me that it were basically the same story. I'm sure people will now go with the final in you know, skeptics probably going to look for any little contradiction between you know, what he said in nineteen sixty nine and nineteen sixty seven or whatever. But I mean, I'm very familiar with that case. I wrote the chapter in the UFOUR briefing document, you know, the Rockefeller Report, which was we've discussed before. We have even a link and

at the end of the story. Two, because that document is posted online. The complete UFOUR Briefing document is available in some obscure Spanish page even though it's in English, so we have a link to the story as we wrote it there. So I don't know, I don't think it's so much that he says anything different, but that here you have another version unknown apparently mostly

unknown by the main protagonist. So that's always interesting. One you can see, you know, like the whole telephone thing where over time the story changes as it's retold each time, right, so at least now you can match it up against what Berwna says himself back to see you know what the true heart of this. Yeah, this is in sixty seven, so it's like nine years after. It's a few years, but it's not that way back

later, right, so, and of course he's dead now. So whatever this, this alleged confession, will never get to the bottom of it. I mean unless there's someone finds some written document by him before he died or

something, but I doubt if that exists. So we basically we only have this second hand which, as I say, I don't think this woman, this AD agency woman, or the Knees are lying either it might have been, which is this was pointed at by Bruce mcabee that the information they relay is so short that it might even be, you know, a confusion over that case that he had hoax in nineteen fifty four. It's fashable and in fact, even in the picture of fifty four, which will reproduce there you

see a woman putting two things together. So even that, even though they do, I don't think they're spoons, but who knows. And also maybe this conversation he was old, you know when he told it, So whatever, it could be just some kind of honest confusion. You know, I don't think that that woman is lying or anything. I'm sure she's telling the

truth. Cool, but she is. The information is just too scanned to make a conclusive you know about what Yeah, And besides is secondhand anyway, So the Abduction magazine for the people who don't have it out there, and I know that not everybody out there has it because we have a lot of listeners, and when I'm matched up to sales, we have some unloyal listeners who are not purchasing our magazine, right, and that broke my heart.

Well. Also, Leandro, remember that in the old days, our magazine was only available in this country, right, and we have a web I'm sure you have a lot of listeners abroad. And that's a really good point because it was it was kind of price. Even if you're in Canada, which isn't that far. You had to pay an extra twenty five bucks and chipping or whatever. But you can get the magazine digitally now, right.

I don't know if I've even mentioned that on the radio show beforeum Gradual reminded me, you leave maybe one Sachel can get it, you know whoever you Yeah, when sitch out, we've got to make sure he's read. Right. Anybody in the world can can can go to our website basically, right and just pay the pay the price and then get the get the electronic version

of the magazine. So that so one great advantage from from having you as part of the open mindset that you have a lot of familiarity with foreign cases. So you were able to cover some foreign abduction cases. So let's talk a little bit about some of those cases. We'll have to leave at least I guess some little pieces for them to go get the magazine. Yeah, I did the one article there. I mean, well, I have, of course another big article on the history of UFOs and the UN on the

same issue. But that's right, nothing to do with abductions, although it's an important we talked about that. They can listen to the other, right we got we talked in detail about that because that was one of my first things that I ever attended when I became an uphologist. At that time, I wouldn't even have called myself a neuthology. Was just a journalist became in something. Yeah. Well, just like Leslie Keane started with Conita, you

know, you start with something and then usually the subject grabs you. But the abduction article I did in this issue, which we have a tremendous amount of material and an abductions, I mean it's really we have a significant amount of all kinds of cases and in depth too. We even have that memoir

from Hopkins and yeah piece from when I have Pen's books. So but my article basically I went after four foreign cases because I figured it's important to let people know that abductions, even though most people are familiar with American abductions, you know, whether whether it's Travis Walt or Betty Hill or with restriever,

with communion and so on, but it's not an exclude American phenomenon. It certainly happens all over the world, and although in some countries we probably know very little about it because it's not reported, which used to be the case

in America too, when you had not a very developed euphological culture. Then maybe people can deal with only sightings that's controversial enough, you know, to discuss, like medical examinations inside the craft or sometimes even sexual thing and which we we cover, of course, a famous case being Betty and Barney Hill. But for instance, when that case happened, which is held in high regard right now because it was well researched by the field, back when it

happened, there were groups that wouldn't look at it. Yeah, and also it wasn't published right away. That case happened in sixty one and finally came up on the John Fuller's On the Look magazine. I think it was like sixty four or sixty six or something like that, so it was a few years later. Yeah, Nightcap, which was a pioneer book, and the Pioneer Organization and everything that had to do with military and pilot cases, and you know, they were the first ones who were, you know, putting

pressure on the government. So they were great. They did a great job in many areas, but they were terrible when it came to humanoid cases and particular abductions. They thought that that was so crazy for that time that they wouldn't touch it. It's funny because they believed in the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Beside

these things flying around, what did they think we're flying them around? Well, David Jacobs, who was a historian, you know, who later became in fact, one of the main investigators of abduction, he had a famous line who said, well, for nikeb and those people, they wanted to

deal with their objects, but not whoever was piloting their objects. It's not like that they wouldn't deal So I think we see a similar pattern in some countries, but it's changing because we have a global global culture now, so even that is changing. In fact, we did have a case in China at a place called Phoenix Phoenix Mountain really yeah, and which is kind of a crazy case in the sense that the this also had a sexual encounter.

So that kind of shocked the Chinese mythologists and they didn't want to deal with

that too much. But nevertheless, the Chinese are so open towards this phenomenon that they invited this guy and we have not I don't think we have a picture of that in the magazine, but I have a picture that Uh Sushil, the famous Chinese uthologist, prominent tofologists in China, you know, who was the founder of the China for Research Organization, who had a very interesting background because he had been the interpreter for German Mao Mao Zedong, you know,

the founder of China Yeah, the communist leader, right. And Uh Sushil speaks Spanish perfectly because he used to be the Spanish interpreter for Mao Zadon. So and I met him at several locations. I haven't seen him recently, but I saw him in San Marino at the international symposium in San Marino in Italy. I saw him in New York and so on, and we could talk Spanish and that was great, right, so I was able to interview him and so on. I even did as an interpret for him one

time. So he took this guy, this abductee, this peasant because it was it worked at a forestry place in some remote part of China near this place called Mount Phoenix. And this guy gave a talk adding I urin outicle symposium in China. Imagine that happened in the United States if you bring like let's say Stan Ramanek or someone like that, and he addresses a symposium where they're engineering, talking about space travel and space colonies or whatever. So that

shows how things are different in other countries. Anyway, we have that case. We have another case, which is that in your article. That's in my article one of the four cases, and the other one we discussed it. I remember in your shows a while ago because it's one of my favorites. Is the Wolfski the Polish case, which is the only abduction case that

has its own monument. The Poles were so excited about. You know, it's interesting We're talking about this too, because that the fairly popular sci fi website I Owe nine. They just wrote a story about this that's a monument with the comic right, and they quoted us. I guess I hope we hopefully. I don't think they did. Well, there's some other stuff around it. Yeah. And so that's a great case because it is so it

was so thoroughly investigated. This was investigated in the days where Poland was still communists. Well they're sort of the waning days of Polish Communism. But what was interesting is Poland became a pioneer in the in the iron current countries because whether the other countries you had to be a member of the Communist Party or whatever. In Poland, since they were Catholic and they had sort of their own culture, authology was not a state thing. You didn't have to be

associated with some academy of scientists or something like that. Oh well, most of these people were scientists, but it was it was a privatize They did it on their own. But they thoroughly investigated this case, and it's a wonderful case, very very well documented. And also because it happened in such a remote part of Poland, that it's something that now it could never happen

again. But back in nineteen seventy eight, here you had a guy and in the border of Poland and Ukraine or something like that, who never heard of UFOs, didn't know that this was the phenomenon that existed, that people report these things, called them weird foreigners. Yeah, and so for him, these were kind of not a typical abduction I mean, right, very

strange. I know, we've got an article that you had written sometimes on the web, right, yeah, In fact the article on the web is it's more complete the magaz You know, you have to make things kind of short. And also because it was not the only article. So and then of course I have the other one, which is very famous is the Villas Boss case from Brazil, and this happened four years before Betty Hill nineteen fifty

seven. But here this was the first case where you really had a sexual contents, I mean completely obvious sexual contents, which later became known in some abductions. But back then, if abductions alone were controversial, never mind am

I having an alien? You know that that's especially because it was of course every man's fantasyre it's in the movies where there's sexy alien, you know, beautiful woman comes and she doesn't say a word, So of course I had wonderful the prit she says, you know, she just gestures and they have their experience. But and people find that so hard to believe. But then we have Star Trek and that's all James Kirk is doing, flying around space.

But this happened before, so there were not so yeah, there was once fiction. Of course, you always had in the Pope magazzines of the thirties and forties. You always had the monster taking the beautiful you know, earth girl. You know that that part was kind of common, but not the description of this guys as he tells it. So that case wasn't even touched for years and uh and it was only published after the Betty Hill and other cases have been published in America, and it was not even published in

Brazil. First it was published in Flying Saucer Review, even though the report, which was prepared by doctor Rolavo Fontez, a pioneer of Brazilian upologist's been dead for many years, very thorough report, and he was a medical doctor as well and had excellent connections with the army and everything else, but this

had nothing to do with the military. In this case. He thought the case was real and so he took it seriously, investigated thoroughly and did a medical examination on Villas Boss and send the report to APRIL because he was the representative in Brazil Opera, you know, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization, which was much more open minded than NIICAB. But even for APRIL this was a bit too much because of the sexual contents. So basically even APRO didn't publish

it. But eventually the report by Fontist did get I guess, copied around and he was published, I believe for the first time in Flying Saucal Review in England, and then Denny was published in by Coral Lorenzen in one of her books, and so after it was published in England and in America, finally the Brazilian said, well, you know, the caties out of the

bag, so we'll might as well published it too. So Denny was published in Okuzio magazine, which was like Life magazine, very famous magazine, but I guess we won't discuss much of details, so people buy a magazine. So when it comes to other countries and abductions. I mean you hear most of that. Of course, we hear most about that here in the State. We probably possibly and this is a question kind of you can answer,

have more people researching that and maybe taking that serious. What other countries have that you see seem to have a lot of abductions? They do, but again, like in many places, because of the culture whatever, some countries being more conservative, having you know, more religious conservative type like in what I'm talking probably like Islamic countries, but even Islamic countries, Turkey for instance, which of course is not at all a religious country. You know,

it's a secular society. It's Muslins, but they're totally separated state from religion. And in Turkey there are many abduction cases, so there definitely happen. I'm friends with I haven't met in touch with her recently, but I've known her for many years. Marie Teres de Bos She's a French journalist. She used to write for Pari Match, which is one of the main magazines in

France. Very big magazine, like would be like Time magaz Party much Party much would be like Time magazine here, although it's got a big format, it looks more like life, but it's extremely famous magazine. Well, she came to New York when I when I met her in the nineties, and because she eventually she was researching abductions. Eventually she published the book on abductions, mostly American cases, but I guess she went to pan at other places

as well when she published. But this was later her book. Originally she published an article in this Pari Match magazine. I don't know what's the distribution, but it's huge. The magazine got hundreds, maybe thousands of letters wow, from reading people, from people having experience. Because the French, yeah, they love their thorough and their investigations and all that, but abductions was maybe considered too much for a lot of the UFO investigator groups in France.

So that had been kind of lesst aside. We're talking early nineties, and so when she published this, I forgot she told me the amount. It was like six hundred letters on. So the matter could be that it is across the board worldwide, very similar in numbers as the United States. We just have more people listening. In Italy they did survey similar to what was done in America with the roper Pole. I think it was this professor Corrolo Malanga who did a lot of work in Italy, and I forgot the numbers,

but it was similar. There was a large number of people that I mean, once you extrapolate the poll. Well, we also have a case in the article I wrote for the magazine of an abduction in Argentina. So uh, there you have it too. Of course they're not only Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Mexico and less familiar with abduction cases in Mexico because it's

being less investigated. But there are contact cases I guess out there. But oh yeah, contactee you have everywhere too, and that is in a way it's less controversial in some respects because it gets more into you know, metaphysical and a lot of people like that in in like in Latin America. So contacteats have always been very popular. You have the opportunity of meeting some of them at the at that big symposium in Mexico City. Uh six to pass

from Peru is very popular and they fill theaters, these guys. Uh. But they don't talk so much about their case. They they basically talk about they give a lot of religion in a way to people, you know, and how alien are going to come and basically, you know, help us to develop our consciousness. And so there's like a whole metaphysical kind of New Age side of it, which a lot of people like as opposed to you know, oh yeah, they took me into the thing and they analyzed me

and whatever. So which that that is some people are more resistance to that, and that's I think what's interesting. And you know, you don't see because we didn't have room I mean to do, you know, otherwise I would have to read what the case. Maybe you would have liked to have gotten in there, but just there wasn't room for it. Well, another case that originally I was going to include, but we left it out because we already had covered it on the first issue, or wasn't on the second

issue. I forgot we already think the second second issue. But it's a very impressive case. It's unthreat the case in Italy because here you had a case which was documented actually by the Italian Caribbineri, the Italian police, they did all the investigations for that case. And also this this guy who was a private security guard. He belonged to some Fritz that that was his name.

He belonged to a private security police force. So but they had radios and guns and all that kind of stuff, which didn't help him at all. Then. Well, in one of the instances, the police, a CARBINERI said they saw him being taken and they were shooting at the craft. Right. Yeah, there is even a famous document from the Italian police which which we have in our files. We got from our colleague Mauricio Baiata.

So it's a it's a very good case. There are case well, other case, another case that I was tempted uh to use was the Godfrey that comes from Great Great Britain, that was a policeman. It's the famous case of a of a bobby of a British policeman who was driving in an area of Britain. This happened in the seventies and he was abducted and he was hypnotized and the whole thing. We have cases in Russia too, so it's all over the place. It was just a matter of selecting some and not

others. You know, that's always tough when they tell you. But I mean there'll be other times to write other articles in the future, so we'll probably get to cover those. Yeah, likeily, we're not running out of time, so well on the show we are. But yeah, yeah, we can put them in the magazine, we could put them in the website, we can put them on the TV shows when we get to that, to that point. So yeah, abductions. I was saying, how the

public is more open to hear from contactees sometimes I'm from abductees. But however, the scientists and the psychologists and those kinds of people, well, they lean more towards the abductions rather than they contact tee because abduction is less metaphysical, you know, mumbo jumbo. It's more like some it's like a real experiences. Yeah, well not all, but most of them, you know, most of the psychologists and psychiatrists who have really taken an open minded look

at this, uh concluded that, yes, these experiences are occurrent. Well, I think that the well, and let's see if you agree with me here. I think that one abduction cases seem to be dropping off. You don't seem to run across them as much. I mean, I used to have people approaching me six seven years ago that they were having these experiences too.

I think that it was especially while they're happening more and maybe still is one of the best situations of giving physical evidence because there are physiological effects on these people, and one thing that's never really been done is a thorough or people being able to capture and study some of these physiological effects. There's a physiological effects the other area, the other school marks, and then of course

you have the implants. And I had the opportunity. We have a short article in this issue as a matter of fact, uh, the Ron Noel case. We went there with with Tom ruffin r TV direct meaning the abduction art one which is out right in the Abduction Issue, correct. And this we went to the offices of this doctor Matthew Ciano in in La Area, and Roger Lear of course, who was the best man, was there and

was done. Hackton was there. It was almost a festival. My next Devanne Smith, so she will be able to tell you whether she's getting more patients now unless yeah, she is the one that did the hypnosis with the people. And of course Ron, as you remember one hundred, we had him here and in our office. He came with your wife. It's a

very interesting story. Had never gotten any media attention or even an investigation, and it was only because he saw on TV one of these programs Ufour Hunters, one of those things where he saw Roger Lear as a matter of fact, taking one of these influences and quote coincidence or perhaps most likely synchronicity. It was on the same day that he had received from his doctor an X ray of his hand because he had had a work related accident or something.

So they took an X ray and the doctor called him says, did you have surgery? The guy said, no, never, it's because he's you seem that you have a clamp there or something. So he had no idea what that was. And then he happens to see that TV show on the same day and that that kind of got him going and great, yeah, well I'll talk more about that. In fact, were done here, so I'm gonna talk more about next week's with guests. But thanks for stepping in.

Luckily, we're really fortunate to have Antonio here. We're fortunate he didn't go home, and that he's always full of incredible information, So thanks for stepping in. You're welcome. Next week, As we mentioned, we have Avon Smidt. She began researching the UFO phenomena in the late eighties and in the nineties she became a hypnosis specialist. After a couple of years internship, she got her certification, and then she began to work with abductees to help

them cope with their PTSD, which we'll talk more about. Of course, it would make sense that they've gone through a traumatic experience that something would be going on there. So she also started Zero, the Close Encounter Resource Organization, which has monthly support groups and lectures. And actually they're going to have Stan Romanek very soon lecturing out there. In fact, in a couple of weeks when we're going to be in San Leandro, I'll be speaking out there.

So Avonne Smith next week, So Open Minds Radio