2018 UFO Year in Review

Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host, Alejandro Rojas. We have with us Martin Goofball, willis my usual UFO News guest. And then, of course we've got since this is our special twenty eighteen year review, we have our good old buddy doctor Lee, pizza Boy Spiegel. I wondered if you were going to give me another name like Goofball,

but pizza boy, that's good, it's good. I'm jealously just because they're both goofballs and it was hard to wrangle them so we could start to show and uh, and of course Lee and I have this running joke about being doctors and ordering pizzas from each other, and the listeners might remember, like I think it was a UK tabloid that referred to me as doctor Rojas, and that's why I had And then somebody referenced you as a doctor too rightly. I don't know. I don't know if they had, they didn't

do it to my face. I think it was even Coast to coast or something. And that's why we started that. And you know, that's kind of that's kind of an ongoing joke that I have with Stan Friedman every single time I call stand just to have a conversation, to say hello, and he picks up the phone. I go, ah, doctor Friedman, and he says, no, I'm not a doctor. Don't have to keep telling you that a lot of people made that mistake. Yeah, he's very good

at pointing that out. He's not a doctor, yeah, which is important because unfortunately some people in this field have not been quick to point that out, and they've led people to believe the wrong thing true. Yeah, and he likes to keep everything factual. So I understand why he wants to stay very very credible and okay, but to me, he's a doctor. So what do you want honorary doctorate from? At least Beagle University? That's right. So before we get into our year in review, let's talk some UFO

news and you've got something for us, right, mister Willis. Yeah, Well it's kind of this is space news more than UFO news, but interesting anyway. So China, China is Chungi four spacecraft made the first ever soft landing on the far side of the Moon in a mission of investigating the history of the Solar System and paving the way for a future exploration by the way. Some people call it the dark side of the Moon, but it is indeed not. It just depends on it's a relation to orbiting the Earth and

facing the Sun and all that. It does get sunlight, and a lot of people are unaware of that just because you know, the Moon is fixated and because of the gravity and the more metals or whatever on one side of it, so we only see one part of it. Anyway, this is exploring the other part and landed in this huge crater. It's actually part of a larger creator. I know the one that landed is one hundred and eighty six kilometers wide. I'm not sure. I think it's something like twenty five

hundred kilometers. Why the whole the major crater, it's the largest one actually known in the Solar system. So they're actually hoping that they can and it's called the fun Carmen Crater, and they're hoping that they can actually find something where this impact is that may actually lead to the development of the Moon itself. It's really interesting, and that's something that just landed. It took off I think in December eighth or something like that, and orbited for all that,

and it just landed today. And I think they're even going to try to grow some seeds or something like that on the Moon, but they don't share as much information in its way. In fact, on this side, we didn't even know exactly when it was going to land. But it's funny because when I say dark side of the Moon, which many of the stories do, because it's kind of just a phrase we use, even though,

like you pointed out, it's not technically dark. It does get light, which just to tech more accurately, the far side of the moon, the side that we don't see. You got another one, Well, I was up just this fascinating image that just came forward of the Well, the number of it is twenty fourteen m U sixty nine aka Ultima Thule, and it was taken by NASA's New Horizon spacecraft on its approach. Now, this was four billion miles away and from Earth actually, and the New Horizon was about

fifty thousand kilometers away from the object when it took this picture. But it looks like a snowman. And I don't know if everyone's looked into this, but it really is quite an amazing it's a binary shape. It was probably two objects that kind of slowly came together because there's no evidence of any type of collision with the two objects, and so they're just kind of formed together at one time. And this may have happened, you know, billion billions

of years ago. They're not really sure. It's about fourteen kilometers across, something nineteen kilometers wide. How far away is the way round? It's a I believe it's about four billion miles from the earth. So it's actually the further object that we've actually been able to see. Pretty amazing. That is amazing. Are you do? You know for sure you have the pronunciations right of the Chinese lander and the well, well, the Chunga, Yes,

I did. I was very careful because that is the Chinese goddess. So I went, you know, check that out to make sure that was pronounced correctly. As far as this fool or I may I I guess the bunker of pronouncing some of these things. The bike rack company of the same name goes by Tully, So that's what I dent to say. And I don't know, I'm just curious if you looked into it so I can know how to say these things. And how do you say the lander again? That's

chunga chun k four, chunga four. Oh cool, because I didn't know that one, and I was, I know, destroying it when I've mentioned it in the past. I'm sure I made some really stupid sounding noises. Well chung of three. So yeah, it's uh. And then they're actually going to be launching one more in twenty nineteen, coming up another one fairly soon actually in March, I believe. M hmm. Well, we'll wrap

up the news, but I think that it's an important thing. These stories are important that you bring up, because that's one thing about twenty eighteen is for space exploration, it's been extraordinary. There's been so many changes. We're really close to actual civilian space travel. And of course I did a story on Den of Geek on that we've talked about it in the past, and

oh, I've got to get a YouTube video up on that. But with the Chinese and everybody ramping up going to the Moon, it's been really an extraordinary year for space. And what do you think, Lee, do you have any comments on that? Well, I think you're right, and I by luck. I was in California a couple of months ago working on this

documentary as you know. And I was there on the night that I was at, SpaceX launched a satellite from Vandenberg Air Force BACE, and people came into the studio where I was working and they said, you got to come outside. There's a UFO right in the sky above us. And I went outside with my camera and this amazing site in the sky. It almost looked

like a big comment with a trail coming back from it. And I didn't know what it was, and I had forgotten the news items that SpaceX had launched this new satellite, and I said, well, whatever it is, for the moment, it's the UFO, but I'll bet it'll be on the news tonight, and of course it was, and I took some pictures of

it, and they said on the news. And I went to the SpaceX site later and saw the actual replay of the launch and at the exact moment where my camera recorded this thing in the sky, that's when the first stage of the rocket was falling back to Earth before it was going to come back for that perfect landing that they had on the news later that night. So yeah, it is amazing that there's all this entrepreneurial stuff going on as far as the Space Race. I mean, it's not just the Americans versus the

Soviet Union like it was in the sixties. This is a whole different ballgame now of what the Space Race is all about. So, Lee, people might not realize you've been kind of on a secret project lately, working with James Fox, who has created I believe, you know, some of the best UFO documentaries out there on this latest documentary. So that's pretty exciting. Is that getting pretty close to finish? Yeah, we're getting closer and closer.

James has actually been working on this for four or five years. I've been on the project for the last year and a half, and for me, it's been a long year and a half. I mean, I can't believe that it was like June of twenty seventeen when my career at the Huffington Post came to an end so that I could really start working on this project with James, And now here we are, like a year and a half

later, and where did the time go? We have we have gathered some incredible interview for from people that will take the breath away, we hope of the audience when they finally get a chance to see this. Where We've got a few more segments that still need to be produced, and we're looking at literally an early spring readiness for the public. And I know there are a lot of stuff that's coming up on TV about UFOs that are about to hit as well, So the timing is pretty good for us in the project.

Pretty exciting. And I almost forgot about this. I've got a TV project that's going to air on the Tent on the CW, something I helped produce also, and I'm in a bit of it. Ryan Sprague is one of the hosts, but that is in relation to the Roswell program and they just like announced that today that they're going to be airing it on the tenth and then it'll be online and I'll be able to show people. So I almost forgot about that. Yeah, they've been doing a lot of promos for that

show on TV. I've noticed. Yeah, So twenty eighteen was not only an important year for space in general, the space industry and space exploration, but I feel it was probably the most important year ever and we'll get into why in the show. For UFOs as well, it's been an extraordinary year.

So what we'll do is we'll kind of go one at a time what we think is a great and let's start off with what we think is the biggest story, and then we'll keep going because it's hard for me to even determine which one I think is the biggest out of out of the group that I have here, but we'll keep going around, and so we'll let Leg go first, since you are the guest, and to be honest, out of mind, all of them are news related to the Pentagon program except for

one. So well, you know, it's funny because for me, the year started out and then continued with what was, of course the biggest UFO story of twenty seventeen, the whole revelation by the New York Times at the Pentagon had been secretly studying UFOs for several years, and that story lingered throughout twenty eighteen, and many of us are still waiting for more film evidence to be released by the government. So it hasn't gone away like so many other

stories have. This thing is right there, still right up there near the top for me. So that's your number one story. Well, no, it's not the number one story, although the number one story maybe For me, it's funny because I started on my list, and this was I just

numbered this as number one. But then when I got all the way out of the end, I came up with, of course, as other fascinating offshoot of that twenty seventeen New York Times piece about the Pentagon UFO studies, what's still floating around is the idea that there's a lot of competition out there now among UFO researchers and scientists over the analysis of alleged fragments or pieces from

UFOs. This is a very big story, and even I recently had a unique opportunity to see and to hold some reportedly real UFO material that's being analyzed

now by scientists. And they're not yet ready to go public with their amazing findings, but they will, and I can say that I can say that with really total certainty because I was there in their laboratory and on that particular note, I'll kind of leave it at more to come, but it's going to be amazing when they do release their their findings, and they're going to release it to everybody. They're not going to hold back, they're not going

to ask for money. They're going to release it to science and say here's what we've come up with we can conclude very definitely that some of these fragments were not naturally formed and that they were manufactured by someone. And we'd sure would like to know who did the manufacturing and for what purpose. So that's going to be amazing when that finally happens. Now, is this analysis related at all or being looked at by To the Star's Academy? So Tom Delong's

group and a group that says they're doing all this analysis. No, these are separate individuals who have nothing to do with Tom DeLong or to the Stars. And basically I'm a witness to the fact that they can see without giving it away too much, they will be able to conclude that some of these fragments are not from Earth because it has nothing to do with Bigelow. No, nothing to do no, not even with Robert Bigelow. So that's pretty

cool. So and I want to summarize just so people know what we're talking

about. Yeah, of course, there's to the Stars Academy, which was started essentially by Tom DeLong, which includes a lot of these retired defense intelligence people, including Louise Elisondo who ran this program that was revealed in this New York Times article in December, and in that article, Louise said that they had some sort of material that was stored by Robert Bigelow, who ruins Bigelow Aerospace, and that this was anomalist material that they were going to look into.

And then as time went on, some of the stories related to this that we came out with this year is that that they were forming a partnership with EarthTech, this other company where they're going to be looking at and analyzing materials that may be anomalous. There was even hints that maybe they had found

something anomalous. Of course, we had Chris Cogswell on the show, and he's got a bit of frustration because he feels that, you know, to make a statement like that is really bold, and there are a number of steps you have to complete. In his eyes, you have to prove that it's manufactured, that it's the manufacturing process, is technology that we could not have done, that it's beyond our capability, and of course that the material is not from this planet. So he feels that that's too high of a

bar that anybody could meet. And we've kind of have Elizondo more recently walking back his comments a little bit saying that they don't know that they found anything yet and that they're being careful to not put just like you said, the cart before the horse, that they're doing their due diligence to make sure they have some solid evidence before they come out with it. So that's extraordinary to

hear that. First of all, you know, to the Stars is doing this work and potentially might have something, and now you have another lead on another source. Well, you know, I've always historically, for myself, I've always been dubious about claims that people have fragments or pieces of UFOs that either had crashed or exploded, but in fact, these kinds of things did happen. One famous case that comes to mind is I believe it was nineteen

fifty seven over uber Tuba, Brazil, a seaside community. Something came streaking out of the sky and it exploded and it showered the water, the community, the land. I mean, pieces of it were all over the place, so before even the authorities could get there, people were snatching stuff up, you know, So it's not impossible that pieces are legitimately from something that's unexplainable. And this is just one case that comes to mind, and I

held and I looked at pieces from this uber Tuba case. But that's not even the bigger part of the story. It's okay, fine, you've got fragments of something that you don't know what the something was. How do you analyze it so that science really doesn't know what to make of this? Well, you have to come up with new technologies that can analyze this stuff. And that's exactly what these scientists that I am now aware of have done.

They have come up with brand new technology. I've been there, I've seen it, I have photographed it. It's incredible what they can do now. It took my breath away. So Lee, can you give us any more details on this or this didn't actually come from the from the Brazil crash, did it? Or can you tell us all where it came from? Some

of the pieces? I mean, what they brought on this particular day to the laboratory was a huge collection of pieces that supposedly came from UFOs from around the world, going back to the nineteen forties, a lot of stuff. I was holding this stuff in my hands in special containers, and that was just I kept saying to my co producer James. I kept saying, please pinch me. I can't believe we're witnessing this. This is just amazing.

And these people who were doing this research are being very private it now, and we're not letting the information out at this point as to who they are, because at any point they could just decide to say, no, we're done, we're not going any further with this because we don't trust anybody.

So I'm okay with that. And I don't mean to tease you or to tease the audience, but at this point, the tease is all that I can offer because it will come out and nothing will be hidden because they want this information to come out, and they want to share it with science, and they want to give it to everybody who is a believer or total skeptic

or debunker. They want people to say, here, take this information that we've just created, Now come up with your own analysis based on it, and let us know what you're You know, is there going to be more information about this material in the documentary? Oh yes, wow, Yes, we've actually already filmed that segment. Yes. So that's some big news right there. That's the biggest news of twenty nineteen. When it comes to UFOs.

Now, well, I'm hoping that it will be because I think that anything to do with fragments, you know, this this hearkens back to the story of Bob Lazare and you know who claims that he actually worked on and went inside a flying saucer at Area fifty one. This is this is kind of on that level, I think, because now we're talking about fragments that can be analyzed to prove they weren't manufactured here. That's a big story. I think that is a big story. That's a really big deal, you

know. And I'm not saying to you or to the audience or anybody else, any scientists out there listening in. I'm not saying take my word for it, don't believe anything I say. I'm just saying, be patient, be patient, because I believe eventually, if it wasn't these people that I've that I've witnessed this from, if it wasn't them, it would be someone else who I believe will eventually come out with this kind of proof. Well, I hope so the bar is so high that I'm not I'm still very

skeptical. I hope so, And I know, but I do want to say to the audience who may not be as familiar with your work. You know, Lee wrote for the Huffington Post for many years and AOL and many news organizations, and there's many conversations that we've had where credibility is really important and that you know, people did not meet that high bar that you even needed as a journalist. So just how significant it is for you to be saying this right now to me is very important. It means that it's a

higher level of credibility. It's more than we've heard really from to the stars. So that's that's really interesting. Well, I appreciate that. And, like I say, the experience that I had going to this place and I won't even say where it was, it was quite obvious that there's a lot of money behind this research, totally funded. Yeah, just to look at the equipment that they're using to do the analysis is just mind blowing. That's

all. We're out of time for this first segment, so we're gonna have to go to break and then we'll change the subject here to get back onto the topic for twenty eighteen. But no doubt we will be revisiting this and mister Lee Spiegel's claims. Most likely we'll need to wait till the documentary comes out, so hopefully that won't be too long. But we've got to go to break now, and then we'll be back to talk more about some of

the top stories of twenty eighteen. For those of you listening to the podcast, you'll just hear a short musical interlude. For the rest of you, you'll hear a commercial. But we'll be right back with Lee Spiegel and Martin

Willis tucking' Year in Review for twenty eighteen. We'll be right now. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and I know we are just talking about an extremely interesting topic, but we got to move on because I think we have a lot of really interesting stuff to talk about. So we're talking about the year in review in twenty eighteen, and now it is your turn, mister Willis, to tell us what is your top story for that. I actually agree with what Lee just said about.

I think the interesting story of twenty eighteen is that UFOs have been taken more seriously. There's the year shows basically the after effects of you know, the December sixteenth, twenty seventeen New York Times article, you know, in the news media for the most part, because you know, there's no ridicule, it seems to kind of have vanished for the like I said, for the most part, you really don't hear, you know, the X Files

intro music as often as you used to whenever they're talking about UFOs. And that article actually, again, as lisaid, it spawned over one hundred and thirty news shows in particular that started in December, and they kept trickling on into twenty eighteen and also starting basically at the end of January, I mean at the end of December and into January of this year, the former US Navy pilot David Fraverer came forward and he did several interviews, and I think

that's a big deal because you know, he is a US retired US Navy pilot and he was actually talking about this publicly, and you know, he claims that he was at the control of an FA eighteen F fighter and flying off of San Diego. This was back in two thousand and four, and and he intercepted an object that looked like the forty foot long tic Tac candy. He talked about that it accelerated rapidly and disappeared, and a whole bunch

of other details. And again this is a former US Navy pilot talking about this freely on the news. You know, many interviews also, of course, Lewis Alizondo, who ran a TIP and from two thousand and seven to twenty twelve, he spoke out a lot about this. Last year, I went to a move On convention when he was there, I got to meet

him and talk to him. He's a great guy, and I think one of the key things that he said and was most notable is, and I'm quoting here, my personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be a lot. And that was from a CNN interview and that just kind of circulated a lot. I mean, that was again a big deal, and more recently and at George Knapp interview he said there is much more to come in twenty nineteen, so I'm pretty excited about that. I

also wanted to say that a seasoned reporter, Headley Burrell. I don't know if you remember him or Lee, you may know who that is from. I think he was in the Washington Post for years, many years ago, and he wrote a very interesting article in the Harold Tribune in on June tenth of this year, and the title of that was in this time of tension and anxiety, UFOs are back in the news. And he goes on to say, long ago, as a young reporter, I was well aware of

UFOs out of curiosity. I read mainstream media pieces as well as tabloid tales. What repeatedly struck me was, as much as else in life, we were reluctant to simply accept that we didn't immediately know the answer to the mystery of the moment. In any event, I would not have imagined that some six decades later, UFO stories would still be around with heavily credentialed experts weighing

in. And he goes on to say that the new spin on it is that it's serious this time, and no matter where you know it goes, it's definitely a serious subject at this time, all due to people with with high credentials taking the subject seriously. That's the difference between then and now. Yeah, there was a story in the Washington Post that the headline was, you know, UFOs are now serious, serious topic because of a rock star Tomm DeLong and that was a great article. Oh yeah, But I think

what was important was that headline that UFOs are taken seriously now. So I want to get to my first one, because the reason why I think we can't talk about a tip just too broadly is because we'll lose all of the significant events that happened inside of the year related to this. So Lee brought up one you know this material. Then he dropped a bomb on us that he has looked at some material and has heard from some scientists that they think

it's anomalous. You know, you've brought the great point that to that. Overall, this has all brought made the topic more serious. But one thing, one piece of news I guess that I would put on top of all of these this year came in May, and most of these are George n Apps stories. George Napps breaking all the latest greatest news. And that was

his story that was called documents proved secret study based in Nevada. And I kind of blame him and I should joke around with him and talk to him about this that he kind of buried the lead because the leads were not that

these documents came out. The big stories were twofold was that a TIP was not the organization, the group that Luise Alisondo worked with was not the organization that got that twenty million dollars that instead, it was a different organization called the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program, which the acronym is AAWSAP, so we've been calling it as APP. They're the ones who got the money, and not only that, when they got the money, it was in order

to investigate Skinwalker Ranch on top of that. And this is what's crazy about it is that a senior manager of Bigelow Aerospace and Bigelow for people who may know, in the nineties is when Bigelow started investigating the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah,

which lots of paranormal activity was supposedly happening. It had it kind of stopped around two thousand and so eventually they let George Knapp and Colin Kellerhart that leads scientists write this book in two thousand and five that inspired some people to come forward, or at least an individual from the DIA to come look at Skinwalker Ranch. This person had their own paranormal experience, went back to Washington and spoke to Harry Reid and said Hey, I know you know about this

stuff. We need to study this stuff. The government needs to study this paranormal activity. And that's what it was, not just UFOs, but paranormal activity, and so that's what got the funding. And in fact, this Bigelow senior manager said that they were studying more than UFOs, but quote a whole panopoly of diverse activity that included bizarre creatures, poltergeist activity, invisible entities

orbs of lights, animal and human injuries, and much more. It went on to say that whatever this is is deceptive and is fooling humanity and jacking with us. And I mean, holy crap, it wasn't UFOs they spent that twenty two million dollars on. It was a whole gamut of paranormal research. Amazing, isn't that wild? I don't think that the public has completely

digested that. Then Luckily, you know, soon after that, Jeremy Corbel came out with his documentary on Skinwalker Ranch that brought some more visibility to it, with some great reporting and footage from George Knapp, who I'm just you know, I think we're all a huge fan of To me, I think that was probably the news that has been hardest to digest that hasn't been fully digested yet and probably the biggest OMG, WTF moment out of all of this.

Yes, I agree, And the reason I agree with you about this is because without without giving more of the details away yet, because I'm still involved with the documentary. But several months ago you mentioned Harry Reid, who was once the most powerful man in the Senate as the the Senate Majority Leader.

In a private meeting with Harry Reid, James Fox and I learned from Harry Reid about more about Skinwalker Ranch than has come out yet, and that his passion for wanting science to study this and in fact, not only is he interested in the Skinwalker Ranch and all the paranormal goings on there, but he even hinted that Skinwalker Ranch is only one of many places like that around the world, and he thinks that this stuff has to studied scientifically. People

can't just keep burying their heads in the sand over the stuff. Again, this was one of those encounters that I had last year in which I kept saying to James, pinch me, I can't believe we're talking to Harry Reid about this stuff. It's like are you kidding? Well, that's it,

you know. That reminds me of another part of this story, because his story was so rich and it was so much more than the headline kind of led, which was that a major faction And Luisa Lessandro came out and wrote about this more afterwards, and George and Nepe even referred to Nick Redfern,

who I interviewed on this a bit more. But a major faction that opposed and was very influential on closing down this whole investigation was this religious faction within the government who feels that it's related to Satan and so we can't look into it. And under says, even these people are there, people are respect They just have a different point of view and we have to respect their point

of view. He just said, I just disagree with it. And so when it did close down, that's when a tips started, That's when Louise Alessandro's kind of program took over. But that's why he said he really kept under the radar because he didn't want to grab the attention of this faction.

Yeah, I agree, I agree. There's there are all other factions out there too, not just religious that there's so much of this power that's that's divided up around the world, Like who's really in control all this stuff that we're talking about, who's really in control of the information that really does or does not come out to the public. Who makes these decisions for what we're told and what we're not told. That's a big question that I always have,

right, right, and are they compartmentalized or what is it? And you know, the Alejandra one thing on this. I can understand UFOs the study and looking into UFOs because of the aviation safety and security in general, but why the other paranormal would Here's why. And Nick Redfernd actually was very insightful in this in that they want to with the other paranormal understand the science.

If you can understand the science, for instance, h if there are portals that these creatures can create and go through, how do they do that? And if the military can do that, you know, would we be able to just instead of having to fly, you know, a top secret helicopter into Ben Lawden's encampment, could we have just opened up a portal and

walked through that and then grabbed him and left. So trying to understand those technologies, which was extraordinay, And what Nick Redford said is some of these guys on the inside they thought the technology was related to Satan, but they wanted to learn how Satan could do these things so we could do them. So weird. Yeah, there's so much going on around us that we just

don't know. And some of us, the three of us, are in a position to a degree to have contacts out there who can give us little pieces of the puzzle so that we can then share it with the public through the things that we do. And I'm very honored to be part of that that at least I feel like someone will tell us something, or you Alejandro, or you Martin on your shows that you know, we want this information to get out, little by little, piece by piece. I'm glad.

I'm glad we can help in some way to do that. Yep. So more stories. So these stories we're talking about in twenty eighteen did that certainly? So, Lee, it's your turn. What's your second story? I found a really interesting story. I don't know if either of you have heard this. This was from July twenty six, twenty eighteen. A Washington, DC news radio station called WTP. They printed a report that included a video that spotlighted a man who's a retired Air Force Colonel David Shay. Have either

you heard about this guy? You know about David Shaye. He's like ninety years old or something, yet he's like eighty or so. Yes. From nineteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy one, he was the Air Force UFO spokesperson at the Pentagon. In fact, he was the man who wrote the nineteen sixty nine news release that announced the end of Project Blue Book, which for the audience for all intents and purposes, his news release basically said, the

United States government washed its hands completely of all things related to UFOs. We now know, you know, going back to the twenty seventeen New York times pace, their hands weren't completely washed on this subject. And in this WTP report, Colonel she said, and this is a quote, he said, the UFOs never seemed to go away. I love that sentence. Now. He did. His whole master's degree thesis was about how the Air Force handled

UFO reports. And this is what he wrote in his thesis. He said, the story of the UFOs and the Air Force is essentially it's a tale of a credibility gap that's wider than the Grand Canyon. During its more than twenty year history of investigating flying saucers, the Air Force has been accused of almost every conceivable sin and had been guilty of most end quote. What was this guy's name? His name is Colonel baby Shay. Yeah. Yeah,

And he wrote that sixty nine news release ending Project blue Book. Pretty interesting stuff and you can you can you can find you can go online. You

can see the interview with him talking about his beliefs. He doesn't believe that there ever was enough evidence to really substantiate possible visitations from other planets, but he said it's the way that data is presented, and it hasn't been presented carefully enough by anybody, even even our mutual friend Johnny Alexander has always said people are not asking the right questions about UFOs in order to get answers.

All. It's all in the way it's reported. Wow. So I'll put links to these stories on open mind and for YouTube in the show notes, because this was one I don't think I heard of. I think I missed this one. So this is extraordinary. Yeah, it's fascinating to see him from just this past July talking on camera very openly and freely. In fact, one of the things he holds in the interview is it says on the

front Project blue Book, and it's a gigantic book. He's thumbing through the pages of Project blue Book and just talking about it's really really fascinating to just look at this guy because I had never heard of him before, and he obviously I mean, my hat's off to the people at WTP who found him and got him to talk. I think it's really interesting. Yeah, cool, what a great story. That's a really good one. So we'll put that in there. All right, good find mister Spiego, all right,

your turn. Well that was great, Yeah, that was really great. So I think it was a big year in aviation and aviation in UFOs. So I'd like to talk a bit about that in twenty eighteen and one that seemed to happen. That happened on November ninth, eighteen and Ireland seemed to

make most the most news, you know. And it's important to note that the details are similar in some respects to the sightings over Oregon, which that actually happened in late twenty seventeen, but F fifteen fighters were scrambled in that incident. One also happened in Arizona with lear Jet and an airbus on February twenty fourth, twenty eighteen, and one in New York also on May twenty six of this year, and that was with a Piper Saratoga. And so

this is actually, you know, going to the war zone. I know you've interviewed Tyler Rogaway. He does these stories also with Joseph Trevithick. I don't know exactly how to pronounce his last name. Well. The Irish incident happened in the pre dawn hours of November ninth of this year, and it was about forty five minutes before sunrise and at least three different airliners flying over the coast of southwestern Ireland reports seeing multiple unidentified objects flying near them at incredible

speeds. Following the reports from a small number of aircraft on Friday on November ninth of unusual air activity, the IAA, which is the Irish Aviation Authority,

has filed a report. They said this report will be investigated under the normal and confidential investigation process and there was also a publicly available audio of the conversation between the passengers of the planes passenger, I'm sorry, the passenger planes and Shannon Flight Information Region air traffic controllers, they offer more detail of what

happened, and so basically he goes back and forth. There is nothing showing on either primary or secondary radar, and then they won pilot I think he comes on and says, well, I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw this or I'm paraphrasing here, Oh glad, it wasn't just me.

He chimed in. And so there was a third individual. It's unclear that I think they were on board as Speedbird ninety four or something like that, and they considered it could be astronomical and it looked like it was speeding at something like mock two two times a speed of sound, something like that. And so when they reach out to authorities for a comment and more information regarding this incident, they received the following reply quote, the Defense Forces do not

disclose their operational procedures for operational security reasons. This incident is a matter for the Irish Aviation Authority and that's as far as it went, as far as I know at this point. Yes, and you know, and can I add one to that? What I what I especially liked about this story is anybody can go online and you can find you can actually listen to the conversation between the pilots and the control center. Mm hmm, and that's great.

Yeah. There were several stories like that that Tyler Rogaway and the group over at the war Zone on the Drive had written about. And I did interview him in April, and you know, he said he felt more empowered to write about this topic because of the Pentagon story in the New York Times from December, and he went on to say that he said everybody in aviation is interested in UFOs, and he said if there's anybody who tells you they're not, they're lying. That's why he went so far as to say that,

Wow. Yeah, So there were several stories he wrote about at the time. I know one of his favorites, and I think it is the best case that he wrote about, is this one over California in Oregon where he was just astonished the amount of material he was able to get from the government, from the FAA and from these flight towers. But this one was caught

on radar, you know, traveling these incredible speeds. Several pilots had seen it this object that over the airport and organ So that's another great case. Yeah, we'll link to those, But I agree with you. That was one of my other notes. Are these stories, these aviation stories, and it seems like, and I'd like to hear what you guys think, it's not that these stories all of a sudden, these aircraft are having interactions with

UFOs. I think it's more of a case that all of a sudden, serious journalists who have at least more access than the rest of us, like Roca, who has its experience working in the defense world, are able to get this information that we've never been able to get before. Like you said, Lee, like these audio files of these pilots in the middle of these encounters. Can I add something to that? Yeah, and only got a minute. Oh okay, then let's sew it after the break, because I

want to tell about this story that Martin already started to talk about. But it's a bigger story I think we all than we even know about. Okay, that's just great. Yeah, just for the last second here, someone had sent me a supposed video from the cockpit that had taken a video,

but I just couldn't confirm it. Ah. Yeah, I'm not aware of any video out there, but certainly any listeners who are aware of some video, even if you're not sure if it's real or not, send it our way and we'll do our best to see if we can verify that or not. But let's go ahead and take a break. So we are here with Martin will and Lee Spiegel talking about the best stories related to UFOs in twenty

eighteen. An extraordinary year. I mean, any one of these things we've talked about would be a huge deal, but all in combined, and I know on my list, I've got some big whoppers here still, So we'll talk about some of those when we get back from the break. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host,

Alejandro Rojas. I'm here with Martin Willlis of podcast UFO, Lee Spiegel working on his secret UFO documentary with James Fox and Lee you were talking about you know, we were talking about these aviation cases and you said he had a good one you wanted to share with us. Well, Martin brought this one up as one of his favorites from twenty eighteen, about when he said May twenty six, over New York. And what I love about this case,

it was a pilot he was flying over Huntington, New York. Coincidentally, I was on the Long Island Expressway today coming to my apartment in Queens and I drove right past Huntington, so I kind of knew about this sighting. But on May twenty six, at about one o'clock in the morning. In the afternoon, pilot called Kennedy Airport and reported seeing an unidentified object in

front of his plane at about six thousand feet in altitude. And again, what I love about these sightings, you can go online and hear the conversation between the pilot and someone at Kennedy air Traffic Control. So the pilot said he didn't know what the object was, and the controller suggested it was a drone, but it didn't show up on radar. When the pilot asked if he could make a left turn and then was given the okay, he then

reported that the object moved behind his plane and disappeared into clouds. So then when he told the controller that the object also had lights on it, he was given a special telephone number and instructed to call it after he landed and someone would be waiting for his call. When the pilot asked the controller, and again you can hear this conversation online. It's great. When the pilot asked the controller if he would get into trouble for making this phone call,

he was assured that would not be the case. Wow, Like I love this case. Oh my god. Wow. You know, I think the whole aviation thing, it's not so much that the UFOs are buzzing around the airplanes, but pilots are starting to talk about it, and for some reason we're able to go online and hear these conversations like nobody's trying to hide this. Yeah, I think it comes back to what Martin was saying. It's just it really has changed. UFOs are okay now they're not just complete,

you know, silliness. At least less and less people are considering it. That. Yeah, exting in that. In that article I was reading about that, it said that the FAA was investigating it, and I thought they'd never investigated anything like that. That's what they say, they don't investigate things like that. However, I mean, we know that there happened times where they have looked into incidents like this, but unfortunately have not been forthcoming with

you know, real information. Chicago hair for instance, comes to mind. They looked into that, Yeah, but they weren't willing to really share it much except for to debunk it. What's your next one? Oh? My next one? So this is related. My next one, of course is still a tip related, but kind of related to everything getting more serious.

But this is the extraordinary amount of attention the government is now taking looking into UFOs and a lot of people have been frustrated with two of the stars and they've said, well, they keep promising us, promising us information and we don't get it, to which I just like, you know, put palm to face because it's like, are you kidding? I mean the materials that we just talked about, that's something new they've talked about, this whole link

to Skinwalker. That's something new that they have not had a lot of information. But at least lou Alizondo has not been shy to address these things. But as Lewis said, at least two to some of us and me, I guess a little bit behind the scenes. But he's also said this more recently that a big part of what they're trying to do is, like he said, grease the wheels within the government so that the people who should be

releasing information are releasing information. This really kind of started in May. I've got a story on this, and it's kind of funny because the writer is from Politico. His name is Brian Bender, and he tweeted just recently that he's become a darling of the UFO community. And it's because he wrote an article the same day that The New York Times did. He came out with

an article about the a tip. But then also he was covering this US House Science this space essentially conference that was going on with a bunch of companies, and they had this roundtable, these interviews that Politico was doing, and they were interviewing members of the House Subcommittee on Space and some other people involved with space policy making, and they he asked about UFOs. He asked, you know, is it more credible? Is it okay to talk about UFOs

now? And immediately the representative from the House came up and said, yeah, this is really interesting stuff. I even went to the head of the subcommittee to say, hey, shouldn't we look into this? And then one of the other members who was there, he's a ranking member of the House Subcommittee on Space, and the first guy was a Republican Ami Beerra second guy, I mean a Democrat I'm sorry from California who brought this up and was

really enthusiastic. The second guy was a Republican who said, yeah, he thinks it's worthwhile. And then there was another lady there who is part of this committee on Science, Space and Technology that helps advise the President, and she said yes that she felt it was also something worth looking into. Soon

after that, we had an article from Nick Pope in The Guardian. Nick Pope, of course, he worked for the UK government, and he kind of broke down how the Defense Intelligence Agency has been briefed and he linked to an article that proves that he talked about these these subcommittees, you know, actually briefing or debriefing some of the witnesses that Alizondo had worked with on the

House and the Senate side looking into this. And then soon after that I did an interview with Chase Kletzky, who's like the head of you know, UFO investigations for mouf On and she said she also had the opportunity to do a five minute presentation at the Capitol. She wasn't specific about who she talked to, but it was some subcommittee. And so this is extraordinary that we have congressional subcommittees from space to defense all, you know, having discussions about

UFOs behind the scenes. Yes, you're absolutely right. And among the things that David FRAVERR. Commander Fraver told James Fox and I when we went up to his home in New Hampshire to interview him, he said that he's been in touch with several members of the Senate Armed what is it, the Armed Services Committee, and he said that they have talked with him on numerous occasions

about what he experienced back in two thousand and four. And he assured us, he said, without giving you more details, that's what he said to us, without giving you more details, the same kind of things that we experienced in two thousand and four are now going on off the East coast this time, and you wouldn't tell us any more about it. Wow. Yeah,

Yeah. Well, I spoke with a Chase recently, Chased Klotski, and she basically said that she's involved with some public figure and I just was trying to pull it up that former government agent that they are actually forming a

UFO Think Tank really and yeah, and they're taking it totally serious. And I think it's a group of five or more but fairly, you know, we're talking with scientists as well, and I think there's some type of connection to move on, but I don't know exactly, so I don't really want to, you know, get that wrong. I'd love to know more about that. So this is really interesting. What will result is what's really curious. Are they going to maybe share more about what a TIP is up to.

And of course, like I referenced, a TIP was a group that Luis Elisondo ran at the Pentagon who and Alasando says that that organization still exists, so they're still doing research and we have really there was one document and I was gonna I might just moment mentioned it. We talked about the Nimitz case because I think you brought it up, Martin when you were talking about

uh, you know, Fravor and him talking about his experience. Well, one of the extraordinary news pieces that came from George Knapp is the leaking of an actual analogy, actual document that I've gotten from several different sources, let alone just NAP that was written by the military for the military about that encounter, and that's the only piece of really infor we have from a tip.

We don't have any of their reports or analysis or anything like that. So hopefully maybe they'll share more of that, Maybe they'll What if they decide to become more public facing with this organization, what would that entail? I did ask Alisondo? At some point he didn't mind if I shared this. I asked, well, what if they do that? What if they ask you to come back and start to do more serious investigation and give you more funding, would you do that? He said no. He hesitated a bit.

He said no because he wants to make sure that what he's doing going forward is very open and that the public can see everything that they're doing. That it's very transparent. So he feels like what they're doing at too the Stars is much more transparent. But who knows. I guess that could be a possibility. It's interesting to see where this might lead. Mm hmm, yeah, good stuff. Well your turn again, mister Spiegel. Oh my turn.

Here's a cute little wand I found on June twenty first, during a Buffalo, New York TV weather report on TV called WKBW in Buffalo, the meteorologists pointed out something that was from one of their time lapse cameras and they showed us. She stopped her weather the regular weather report to say, look at what one of our cameras picked up. And you see in the background a lot of cloud cover. You see the horizon and from the horizon,

and they stopped the camera the film so you could see. She said, see right there in front of that cloud way off in the distance, there was a bright orb of light that just suddenly appeared in front of some clouds, and all of a sudden it started moving toward the camera. And as doctor has, Commander Fraver said the tic tac that this thing came at the camera and then very quickly shot out of sight. And they showed this on

during the weather report. And I went back and I watched it a couple of times, and it was whatever it was, it was pretty cool to see, you know, and nobody tried to figure out what it was. There was no explanation, but like there it was during the weather report for all to see. I like that it was. It was a good one. Hmmm, that's interesting. I was just contacted the other day by someone that said, boy, if there's way you can get this clip on CNN.

He said, if it wasn't a UFO, I don't know what the heck it was, And you know, nobody called nobody called it out, and he gave quite the detail of what he thought he saw. What network did you say that was? That was CNN? He was watching CNN and moves. Yeah, the thing that I saw was up in Buffalo, New York. The name of the station is w u kb W. I think I think it maybe an affiliate of ABC, but still, I mean,

it was you could tell it was. It was a real live me you know, weather report, and they thought it was interesting enough to stop the report to show whatever this thing was with their own camera picked up coming at them. It was great. We'll have to take a look at that one,

because well, well yeah, I'll have to take a look. It's just I know, those cameras can be tricky because they getting into Mark D'Antonio mode, like we yes, that's right, because that the way things look like at night with with weather cameras, it bugs and things can reflect, and especially if they're closer, they will reflect the IR from the camera. If it has an IR or if it has a light and so for instance, you know in a dark area when one thing is lit, it's going

to light up really bright. It's something of course we do, Martin, and I know when we're doing our podcast or you when you're shooting your doc menory. That's one way you get, you know, dramatic looks by having a dark background that is in the distance and then something blit in the foreground. So that can happen a lot. It's just I've seen a lot of these, and I know I've seen a few of these this year that were effects like that. But it's fun. I think when the news captures things

like that and they get really excited about it. Yeah, they actually yeah, they weren't trying to put it down or ridicule it or make fun of it. Yeah, all right, Martin, let's move to your next one. Okay, Well, I think this was a pretty big story and it wasn't that long ago. Harvard researchers see Alien Potential and Mysterious Object that's the title. And this is of course headlines about a paper that was submitted to

the Astrophysical Journal Letters. So the mysterious cigar shaped objects spotted humbling through our solar system last year may have been an alien spacecraft sent to investigate Earth. That's kind of you know in one of the articles this kind of goes on. But the object, nicknamed a Mua Mua, which means a messenger that reaches out from the distant past in Hawaiian, was discovered back in October twenty

seventeen by the Pan Stars one telescope in Hawaii. Since its discovery, though, scientists have been at odds to explain its unusual features and precise origins, with researchers first calling it a comment, then an asteroid, before finally deeming it the first of its kind a new class of interstellar objects, and the paper by the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics raised the possibility that the elongated, dark red object, which is ten times as long as it is wide and

traveling at speeds of one hundred and ninety six thousand miles an hour, which I think is incredible, might have an artificial origin. So it was. Avi Lobe and Frank Bailey Junior advanced two possibilities for the object's origin, that it is debris from a now defunct craft tumbling through the galaxy. Or that it was launched as a sort of recon reconnaissance probe from elsewhere in the galaxy.

And while he acknowledged that other astronomers, including the researcher who discovered MUA, have dismissed those ideas, Loebes said such debates are important, are an important part of the scientific process, and while alien life may once have been strictly science fiction, he points out to a growing body of evidence suggesting we

are not alone. We know a quarter of all the stars in the galaxy of planets and the habital zone habit or post star and the habitable zone of their host star, so it's to him it was not impossible that there may be life elsewhere. By far, the most intriguing observation, lope said, suggested that muah Moa was not just accelerating but deviating from its expected trajectory, and there is no apparent outcasting like comments have that can cause such a deviation.

So anyway, his hope is that if next time around something like that comes through, that people will be more intrigued and we'll do everything they can to figure out what exactly it is. Anyway, I just thought that was a big story because of the way it was published and who published it.

I think that that's been extraordinary in the last well recently that we've had I mean with Tabby Starr this you know star that they observe, you know, strange dimming, and I don't think there still a consensus as to why that's happening. But the scientists who wrote that paper suggested a potential extraterrestrial origins.

In this case, I think it's highly highly speculative, but still it demonstrates how the culture is changing, I think among astronomers and astrophysicists in that they are being bold enough to suggest extraterrestrial possibilities, and I think in particular extraterrestrial civilizations that is a huge step too. I think that is so cool, so interesting. I mean, more recently, we have this article from what

his name was Colombo. He did this talk at the SETI conference where he suggested that, hey, maybe some of these UFOs do come from elsewhere, just because physically humans wouldn't be able to travel. What about robots or what about evolved robots, and what if they came here and one of these probes crashed on our planet or another planet. These are things that we should investigate because the possibility exists. Incidentally, I guess some of you may know the

Scientific Coalition for Eupology. Hopefully they won't mind me sharing this, but they had reached out to him, and he's really pulled back. He was so kind of devastated by his work being misrepresented, especially in the UK tabloids, that he doesn't even want to talk about any of this anymore, which is really sad. But still that more scientists are going there and hopefully they don't have an experience like him where their work just gets totally blown out of proportion.

But yeah, I think that's a big shift in the culture when it comes to these scientists. There you go, there you go. Yeah, all right, a couple more stories because we're running out of time, and the first one. There's two that I want to talk about, but I'm just going to bring up one for now, and then I want to get your feelings on the other. This next big story, my next big story, since we talked pretty much about all the A tip stuff, is Project

blue Book. To me, the History Channel tackling Project blue Book and deciding to represent it. It's dramatized. It's fiction, you know, Martin and I we talked about this. In fact, somebody accused us of just being born big long commercial. It's not a big long commercial. It's significant because this is going to have an effect on millions of viewers and millions of people.

It's already having an effect on their perceptions when it comes to UFOs and the Air Force's investigation of UFOs, which wasn't black and white, cut and dry as all of us know. There was a lot of mysterious mystery in those cases, and there was not a consensus that these were all mundane objects. And I think that's going to come out in this program, especially because the League character who's very likable played by Aidan Gillen, is doctor j Allen

Heinek, who Lee you've got to meet. But he comes across as just a very likable person, and I think that he's going to be somewhat of a hero in this show, where people are going to look up and they're going to be tending to gravitate towards his opinions and ideas about this topic and be looking into real cases. And Lee, I don't know if you heard my interview from last week of Paul Heinik but I did ask him on the air if he remembered you when he was a kid coming into the house,

and he did repair you. The thing that I have heard about this upcoming series is is that I think part of the promotion is that they're they're giving the impression that doctor Heinek was like the leader of Project Bullbook, that you know, he was the guy that was brought in to lead the investigations. But that's that's not true. Now you've you've seen a couple of the episodes, Do they give that impression about him, not at all. No. Yeah, in fact, in the first six episodes, yeah, Martin,

seen the first six. I've seen the first couple, and Martin, you can, you know, correct me and give me your ideas. But I mean, it's the Air Force that's driving this, and just like in real life, they bring on doctor Heinek as a consultant, but in fact they're kind of bullying him. They've got one character that kind of represents most of the Air Force people. But yeah, Martin, your perception, yeah,

they're they're they're controlling him there. They want to control him. They don't want him to look too hard into the topic, into the specific you know, investigations, so they're they're definitely actually, you know, as far as I got in the six episode screeners, there is that you know, they they want him to just debunk and that's it, and you know, don't

look too hard. Yeah, I would say, you know that, I understand people who want who are criticizing the details, but I think you you just can't do that with fiction in that you're never going to get all the details to be accurate. Look at close encounters and what a positive effect that had. It's probably why I'm so compelled to be in this field. It's not accurate, it's fictionalized what you know, what Jayellen Heinez consulted Spielberg about,

But it gives you a sense of what was going on. And I think what is good about what the History Channel is doing is they're saying, Okay, here's our fiction show that gives you kind of a sense of what was going on, But if you go to our website, we have real arts that are giving you the facts. Yeah. Yeah, Well, I'm glad that you both came away from the episode is feeling that way. I'm looking forward to seeing it. Yeah, I really am so. I thank

you both for giving me a little preview just from what you said. And then finally I want to ask you guys this real quick or did you have something more to say about it. The other big thing, of course, that's happened at the end of the year that we probably should address is Jeremy Corbel's second documentary of the year, I'm Bob Blazaar. Now I've seen this. I don't know if you all have. I think Martin you have. And is it a big story? I think in a way as the story

in that what shocking is. Even just today there's this major comedian who tweeted Jeremy and said, you know, hey, great job on the documentary. It's so important. So the penetry creation. I guess this topic is getting into the mainstream from this documentary. I think it's significant. It's interesting.

The guy's name was Dane Cook got something like that, oh yeah, yeah, for it's three million followers, and he retweeted Jeremy Singh and said, hey, you know, he loved it, and so culturally I think it's significant. Now, I don't know if there's anything really compelling and convincing. I think it's great. We heard from way more from Lazarre than we've ever heard before. But yeah, this is another pretty big thing I guess for this field that's happened at the end of the year. M hm, well,

I agree. And whether everything that he has told over the years is true or not, it's still a pretty compelling story because compared to all the other stuff, all the criticism about Lazarre and what did he say and was the true at the very least, if it wasn't for Lazarre telling his story to George Napp back in what nineteen eighty eight eighty nine, we might never have heard of a thing called Area fifty one, right, I mean it

famous. Yeah, And so he at least wasn't lying about that because the government finally said, yeah, okay, there is an Area fifty one, but there are no aliens there. But even because of that, it was because of the things that Lazarre said back then to George, and then George broke the story. Now it's in our consciousness Area fifty one. That's what's really important and significant to me. What do you think, Martin, Well, you know, I watched I watched the documentary and I came away from

it just thinking that I was trying. There was an attempt to convince me or convince the watcher, the listener, whatever of And I'm still I gotta tell you, I'm still on the fence about Bob Lazarre. It's still a big mystery to me. I don't really know what to think about it. I am too, I agree with you. I mean, I felt there were some more a couple of my questions that I felt were not answered, that weren't answered in the film, not convincingly, I would say. I

mean, I think, well, I shouldn't say that. I would say compelling answers, but not necessarily something to knock me off of being on the fence over this. And some people are on Twitter I think just today were saying, oh, you're talking to al Ajandro who's a believer, And I'm not. I'm very much on the fence with Lazar. But it was a compelling documentary and I was really interesting to see more about him, and it did give me more to think about, that's for sure about this case.

And Lee, I think you really got to see it as soon as you can, because it does change the conversation a bit. Okay, all right, I trust you, and I like Jeremy. I like the work that he does. He's very passionate about his work, and I believe that Jeremy has a lot of credibility as a filmmaker. So yeah, I'll definitely watch

it. I'm looking forward to it. All right. Since I snuck in those two last ones, I'll give you guys a chance if you have anything, you know, really compelling from last year that you want to add in here before we end. Now is your chance? Okay, well you know what, let me jump in. There were two videos that I saw, one one from June and then one from July. The one in June shows a black cigar shaped object, yes, but hovering horizontally over of all places,

the NASCAR lines in Peru. And part of the story is that the Peruvian Association of Ufology they uploaded the video on June twenty seventh and described the strange, unmoving object and the videographer who took it. He kept zooming in and out so that viewers could get a sense of how far away the UFO sat in the sky above some mountains, and I appreciated that. So that

was one cigar shaped UFO. And then following that on July seventh, a family reported and they videotaped a black cigar shaped UFO hovering, this time vertically over Banbury in the UK, and at approximately one minute into the video, there's suddenly a bright light that moves upward from the bottom of the object, goes all the way up to the top and before the videographer managed to get his camera focused on the object. He later reported that it was flashing and

rotating. Two really interesting cigar shaped videos. I thought, I'm familiar with

these ones. Yeah, I don't have anything more to comment except I'd like to comment on the last video you're talking about, Lee, And what I noticed about that particular video was you did see the light like go along on the side of it, Yeah, when he was just about closing out, just at the very end, it appeared to be And nobody mentioned this that there were along the horizontal horizontally along both sides, there seemed to be a

glowing or a light. I don't know if you want to check that video out again, but I thought nobody even talked about that, and I thought that was pretty interesting, and that was definitely something in the sky for sure. It wasn't anything made up, Yeah, but it was interesting. Sorry to be that the party pooper, but I just feel, in my opinion,

the Nasca Line one looks like a cloud. To me, it looks like you know, this happens a lot where uh it's probably even part of a contrail because it's long and skinny, but it looks cloudish to me. I really feel it looks like a cloud or probably a piece of contrail. And then the second one to me, and I don't know. To me, I think they both clearly look like these. It looks like a solar

balloon. And then the UK that's where solar balloons became big, and the lighter effects are from the wind and because it's made out of a very thin material and so it's reflecting the sun. I don't think it's self luminescent at all. I think it's just reflecting the sun in different ways as it moves around the sky, and the wind makes it the very thin skin kind of

move around. So I know, I I thought about that, but I do want to say that if you get a chance to take a look at that one, just look at the end and take a look at what I was mentioning about. The lights on both sides of the yea. Yeah, well, I know exactly what you mean, and it's kind of a ro roar. But again, I mean, if it's reflecting and that's more of an effect of the camera than the actual object itself, Yeah, I think he just di' antonio does I know. Well, you know, these are

both ones that I posted. We've posted in the Open Mind's UFO news group, which I implore everybody to check out because we have a lot of great people in there, including D'Antonio, to look at these videos, and people really give them some pretty tough scrutiny, which is great because we want to know and of course, you know, sometimes we all agree, sometimes we don't. Well I shouldn't say that, in fact, everybody disagrees in all of them. But I think I don't know if it's D'Antonio who chimed in

on this. I think he did on that second one especially, But yeah, I kind of agree with those conclusions. And the hard part is, like D'Antonio says, if we can't prove otherwise, you know, if there's nothing in there that can really prove otherwise, and your null hypothesis is essentially what you got to go with. So Martin did you have any last minute? No, that's it for me. I'm done. I would like to

tell the audience that and this is a plug for Alejandro. Alejandro always posts really interesting headlines on Open Minds TV, and on November first of twenty eighteen, you had a headline that really caught my attention, the one about how actor Laurence Fishburn is going to star and produce this eight part TV UFO drama called Rendelsham. I like that. Yeah, that is a really interesting thing that there'll be a TV show. Yeah, I mean coming up about the

Rendelsom forest incident. I know, I know that ought to be really interesting. It may not be newsy, but but we are talking about twenty eighteen, and that's when you had your headline and the story about it. I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. I agree. Well, thanks for the plug, and that is a good one something to look forward to. So other things to look forward to is Martin Willis and podcast UFO. So I'm sure you're going to have another year of great shows.

You're not planning on going anywhere, right, Martin, No, I'm going nowhere. Well I wouldn't say that. Yeah, And then of course Lee, We've got your documentary to look forward to, hopefully in the spring. Yeah. I can't wait for that. Yeah, and me neither can I because I want to move on to the next project, but not before I take a trip somewhere just to kind of get it out of my system.

And then most likely all of us will be meeting and hopefully with well with Jeremy, and I'll say this right now, at least I've gotten several verbal confirmations that will have George Knapp, Louise Elizondo of course you two will be there, and then hopefully James Fox should be able to make it. We'll be all getting together here in the Phoenix area in September for the International UFO Congress. I can't wait to see what that that's all gonna look like.

That'll be amazing, how frigging cool. And you know, we're still we're still working on getting stan Friedman to make an appearance there. Well, he says he's going to be there too, so we'll be able to give him a fun farewell. Because I guess the one thing we didn't mention of this year, and I actually had it noted, is that Stanton Friedman retired in twenty eighteen. Well, that's that's right, that's right, that was

a big news item too. But he's he's still but at least he's not taking a suitcase around anymore like he used to now and and he's just kind of showing up to thank people. And I love that, and we all owe him so much in this field. We do, I agree. I mean, he's an extraordinary person and we're so lucky to work with him.

So's it would be a lot of fun to tell him goodbye. And it's really cool that he has been at so many He's been at many of the last few International UFO Congresses, even if he wasn't speaking, although I think always we ended up putting him in a panel or something. And what other thing, speaking of San Friedman, as I kind of do my other things to look out for, is that at the International UFO Congress YouTube page, we posted a video. It's a thirty minute video that is actually clips from

a panel from twenty fifteen at the International UFO Congress. This was the same congress that Bob Lazaar was at, and Jeremy had released a short kind of clip that he actually integrated to his more recent documentary at this conference for our conference goers, but we had a whistleblower panel and on that panel was Ruben Uriarte talking about this case from California. We had Mark Pilkington, who's talked about Richard Dody. He wrote a book on that called Mirage Man, and

of course I've talked about him a lot, an alleged whistleblower. And then we had other whistleblower representatives such as Stanton Friedman to talk about Jesse Marcel who of course the whole Roswell thing, and then of course Jeremy Corbell on the stage to talk about Bob Lazar, which gave us, of course an opportunity

to have Jeremy and Stanton debate Bob Lazar. And so we've got thirty minutes of them debating during this panel that's uploaded to the UFO Congress YouTube page for people to watch, and then there's a link to watch the entire thing on vimeo in the show notes there, so definitely people will want to check that out. That's great, all right. Otherwise, come, yeah, thank you guys so much for being on the show. Thank you. What's like?

Ye? I hope you guys have a great twenty nineteen, and I guess the other things, I'll say, it's just open Minds, don't forget. You can find out links to all of this stuff and you can get links to the latest news at Openminds dot tv. Also, oh, I better get going because in fifteen minutes, I've got to do my live YouTube show that I do every week at six pm, well most weeks if there's

not a holiday or something going on at six pm. And we've got more exciting interviews in store for the show, so be sure to check back. Also, some of you might have noticed our lamps. These UFO hovering lamps have been a huge hit at the UFO Congress store along with other things, and we ran out of them, but we're going to be getting more in soon if you were curious about when we're getting those, because I've had a lot of people ask about them. But we've got all kinds of cool stuff

at the store that you can check out stored at Ufocongress dot com. And I guess just stay tuned for more information. Thank you so much to Caleb Hanks for the opening and close music of the show. Thank you to Systematics for the bumper music, and of course as usual, Thank you all the listeners for listening and until next week, anybody want to join me with my little end audios mood. Chacho you mus