Hour 2: Study the Bible with Two Michaels

He's the regular substitute host guest host on Open Line. Time to give us a call. 87754836758775483675. If you can't call, just go to our website open line radio. Org click on the Ask Michael a question link. There you can post your question. I hope you have your Bibles open. I'm about to get my second cup of coffee. Hope you're getting yours as well. We're ready to talk about the scriptures together again. Mike Faber is pastor Mike Faber

of Compass Bible Church. Focal Point Radio is here with me. You know him because he answers questions on Open Line pretty regularly. We're really grateful that he sits in for me when I can't be there. And we're going to go right back to the phones. Now we're going to talk with, uh, Susan, uh, in Florida listening on keys. Welcome to Open Line. Susan, how can I help you?

get a glorified body or how does that work? Yeah. Okay.

they will be considered young. It says in verse 20, indeed, the youth will die at a hundred years, and one who misses a hundred years is someone that's actually cursed. And there will be people who will give birth and and have families in the millennium. So here's how I understand it. First of all, those of us who believed in the Lord Jesus during the time of the church, we will be raptured if we're alive or resurrected first.

If we have died in the Messiah Jesus, then at the end of the tribulation, we're going to see the judgment of the Gentiles. The judgment of the sheep and the goats and the sheep will enter the millennium, but they won't have glorified bodies, and Israel will believe those who survive who are Israel will be purged. But at the end, most of all, when it says all Israel will be saved, I think it means mostly all they will turn in faith to Jesus. Like Zechariah 1210 says,

they're going to look upon the pierced one. They're going to mourn in repentance and put their trust in him. He's going to return and deliver them at the last battle. And so they will not be resurrected. They will be delivered. So the, the, the people of Israel who have believed are going to enter the kingdom, and also the sheep and the goats, the sheep will enter the kingdom, and they're the ones. Those are the people that will enter

into the kingdom without having been resurrected. Yet now the question comes, I'm going to turn this over to Mike. There will be people will have to become believers in the millennium, and the Bible never says when they will receive their glorified bodies. Do you have a conjecture about when you think?

millennium for that period of time in unglorified bodies. And some people struggle with the difference between how can we interact if we're in glorified bodies that are in glorified bodies? Just think about Jesus after his resurrection. No problem having fish with Peter by the shore there broiled fish. There's no problem with him hanging out there in Jerusalem. Together, they have no trouble interacting as human beings because one

is glorified and one is not. So at the end of the Millennial Kingdom, we would assume that we're going to have then a translation of these trusting who make it through this period of rebellion at the very end, as it says in revelation chapter 20, very emphatically, there's going to be a rebellion against the against Christ, against

the people of God. And so after that we will assume without any specific data, that people then will get glorified bodies, because nothing's going to inherit the eternal state without being glorified, as First Corinthians 15 says, so that everyone's going to have to have a glorified body and put on immortality, as Paul puts it. And that's going to probably take place at the very end of the Millennial Kingdom after the rebellion takes place.

in my interpretation? And does this these passages speak of equity?

such no sense of equal outcomes. Obviously, here in America, one of the things that we've always stood for is that all people are created equal, meaning equality of opportunity and equity is really talking about equality of outcomes, that everyone should have the same outcome. It's it's the you know, we see it in Little League. You know, everyone gets the the the award the participation award. And that's that's

really not what the Bible is talking about. What this is talking about is leadership in, uh, Micah chapter three. You want to talk about that. And Micah three, what's talking about?

They don't say, well, I'll preach if you give me $1,000. No one says that. So that to me is a good sign that I don't have people that fit the bill of this problem that they had in the Old Testament. But doctor Ray Dolnick is right that equality is different than equality. And I know that God doesn't believe in equality because I've been to the gym and I know, I know that there are people that are stronger than others.

I've been to the shopping center. I know people that are more attractive than others, and I've been to the university. I know people are smarter than others. God does not dish out beauty, brains and brawn all the same. There's a variety, and so there's going to be a variety of economic strata in our day and power and authority. That's just going to be the way that it is. And God, there are distinctions, but God makes those distinctions

in his wisdom and sovereignty. And we have to recognize, I can't make everyone I can't have, you know, four foot ten Asians in the in the National Basketball League that are represented with everybody else. We're going to this is going to be based on who can play basketball the best. And at the university who's who's going to achieve the best. And in as a surgeon for my wife or myself who can operate the best. So there's going to be distinction and God's variety is spelled out

that way. So justice is different. Everyone is treated as people made in the image of God. We treat them with respect. They're all of equal value in the sense that they're made as God's creatures. But when it comes to what roles they play in society, or how much money they make or how they achieve in whatever industry they're in, it's always going to be varied. And that's the way God is set up this world.

going to come back. Thanks for your call. We're going to be right back with more of your questions right here on Open Line. Stay with us. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm here with doctor Mike Bowers, and also I'm Michael Ray Dolnick. And we are trying our best to answer your questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. Sometimes when you have a question, it might be because you're reading the scriptures and you say, boy, I wish I had the Moody Bible Commentary to help

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Commentary just to say thank you. Uh, well, we're going to talk to JC, uh, who is calling from California listening on the internet. Good morning JC. How are you?

that we don't know where they were. But then it does say that it's somewhere between the Nile and the Euphrates River. So it says this in Genesis two, a river went out from Eden to water the garden. From there it divided and became the source of four rivers. The name of the first is Pishon, which flows from the entire land of Havilah. We don't know where that is. Uh, it says the name of the second is Gihon, which flows through the entire land of Cush. Now we know

that's in Africa. The name of the third is the Tigris and the. And Assyria. And the fourth is Euphrates. So it's between Africa and, uh, and Babylon or Iraq today. Well, what country is between Africa and Iraq? I would say it was in the Promised Land in Israel. And so, in my opinion, uh, it was probably in the land of Israel. Uh, that's where God had the Garden of Eden. But I would never be dogmatic. That's what I think it was. Uh, what do you think, pastor Mike?

And we don't know. But knowing God, I probably would be with Doctor Riddell that I wouldn't doubt that it was right. I mean, maybe the tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil was right in the center of the Temple Mount for all I know, because it's like

a bowling ball. If you have a bowling ball and you pick the coordinate on the bowling ball and you put a sticker on it, for instance, and said, here's where the Garden of Eden was, I think all of the map around that spot was probably very different after the flood. So before and after is hard to say. And the river names, it's just like Doctor Riddell. Nick's name is Michael and my name is Michael. I think there's you could name different rivers with the same names,

so it's hard to say. And I think that's why all of us are guessing at where it was.

The Abrahamic Abrahamic covenant. I'm like, really? So I want to know what your thoughts are on circumcision and how it relates to infant baptism.

go to war about that. The basis of saying it's like baptism is from Colossians chapter two, and I think it misunderstands that it's like circumcision, that it misunderstands what that's saying. It talks about when the Colossians came to faith. It says you are also circumcised in him with a circumcision not done with hands by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of the Messiah. That's basically saying, listen, you got a circumcised heart when you put your trust

in Jesus, a spiritual circumcision. It's what Jeremiah told Israel that they had to have. Uh, it's a it's the new covenant that that when we trust that Jesus died for our sins and rose again, we get a circumcised heart. And of course, that happens when someone believes instantly. So that's all it's talking about there in Colossians chapter two, verse 11 about when they trusted in Jesus. And then he says about that time when they trusted in Jesus

having been buried with him in baptism. You were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive with him, and forgave us all our trespasses. He erased the certificate of debt. Uh, the point being, when we believed all our sins were forgiven, we receive. Circumcised hearts. How did we express that faith? Through baptism. Uh.

And so to me, it's just. It's not saying babies were being baptized. It's just saying that we received circumcised hearts when we believed, we expressed it through baptism. Now, pastor Mike, uh, is there any other verse that you know of that would people use to argue for infant baptism? That's the one I know.

do you join the covenant community in the New covenant age? Well, you do that by putting your trust in Christ being born again. So even if you do compare circumcision to being placed into Christ, as Doctor Redlich rightly said, and Jeremiah says, you got to circumcise the foreskin of your heart. Well, that's not done by hands, right? That's a God thing. And that happens at your conversion. So you you make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them that demonstrative pronoun,

then point them points back to making disciples. How do I make a disciple? I don't have more kids. And then all of a sudden they become disciples. They have to come to the place of repentance and faith, and then they become disciples of Christ. And then I baptize them. So I'm a believer in believer's baptism. That's what we call it. Credobaptism. Once someone puts their trust in Christ, they're now qualified to be baptized. Being born does not

qualify you for baptism. The only way that would make sense is if you're a Roman Catholic and you believe that baptism actually washes away your sin and makes you a Christian, then there might be some argument for infant baptism. But of course, we don't believe that because that's not what the Bible teaches. Therefore, we're going to say, I'm going to say that you put your trust in Christ and then you're qualified to be baptized. Not being physically born, but born again.

baptized already. That that doesn't matter where it the the message is the same, the outward symbol is the same, so you don't have to be rebaptized. But then there are people. There are people who will say, uh, that, well, I was baptized as a baby, but came to the Lord as an adult. And for those I say, yes, you do need to be rebaptized because, uh, all you had when you were a baby was water being sprinkled

or poured on you. You weren't really baptized in the sense of what the Bible teaches, which the word baptism means immersion. And also, uh, the idea is it expresses your faith, which you didn't have as a baby. So I really do encourage people who, even from a really good believing reformed church, uh, I do encourage them, once they've become believers, to indeed be baptized, immersed in water as an expression, an outward sign of their faith. Okay, Mike.

right back with the mailbag, so don't go away. This is Open Line on Moody Radio. Welcome back to Open Line. I am so grateful to be here in California. The beautiful weather, the beautiful environment. And here are the great facilities at Compass Bible Church with doctor Mike Fabares. Uh, I so appreciate all that the Lord has enabled me

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Joining us. She is bringing the mailbag in. You know the imagery that I have when you bring the mailbag I always think of it because Thanksgiving is coming up. Yes. Is the scene in miracle on 34th Street when they bring all the Santa letters and drop them on the judge's desk and remember, they're carrying all those bags in. That's what I always imagine you doing when you're bringing the mailbag in. Okay. It's a great.

He should have known that if you're going to talk about water and spirit, your brain as a seminary grad of the first century, should know Ezekiel 36, that the coming promise of the New Testament age was all about you being, quote unquote, sprinkled with with water for the forgiveness of your sins and to have your heart filled with God's Spirit, spirit, and water in that passage. There's two symbols there. I don't put the spirit in my

mouth or shove it in my ear. Right? This is something God does to make me connected to him on a profound level. The Spirit of God indwells me and I'm forgiven. And it's like taking a bath, right? I'm taking a shower. I'm getting clean. And while these are not references to water baptism because we know that's not the mechanism of our forgiveness, and it's not amniotic fluid that you have to be born. That would be kind

of a silly thing to say. That's like saying you have to breathe air, or you have to eat food and be born of the spirit. And of course, we have to be born. I mean, that's just it's not a reference to being physically born. The idea of this birth that the Old Testament spoke of, that I would be made new. That God would give me a heart

of flesh and not. This heart of stone was about God's work of forgiveness, typified by water and the filling and connection with God that's discussed in terms of his spirit. So I think that's what we're referring to, even though a lot of people like to say, well, this must be baptism or this must be the clear amniotic fluid when you're born into the world. I don't think it's

either of those. It happens at the same time when someone calls out to the Lord with a penitent heart, they get born again with cleansing and with filling.

within me. So yeah, all you need to do is what Jesus said, which is to repent of your sins and put your trust in Jesus Christ. And then God does all of these things, cleanses you and fills you with His spirit.

in Jesus. And she listened to several sermons. We went back and forth on this a few times, and she's like, okay, I've listened to more of his sermons, and this does seem to be what he's saying, but I'm not sure if he's referring to spiritual baptism by the Holy Spirit or water baptism. What could someone or what would someone mean by these phrases?

as an external sign of that. But there's a gap between those two, always a gap, whether it's an hour, a month, or a year, right? We get saved by being placed into Christ by the spirit. That's called baptism in John chapter six. We're placed into his death right where it's as though we died on the cross and our sins were absorbed and dealt with, and we're placed into water as an ordinance.

As a result of that, it's almost parenthetical, uh, for the forgiveness and then forgiveness of all your sins. It goes back to the plural, uh, that relates to the repentance. So it's almost like the be baptized is a parenthetical statement to those who have believed. But here's my, uh, since we're on the baptism thing. Yeah. I want to ask pastor Mike to explain, uh, where in first Peter it says that baptism now saves you.

to God, have mercy on me, a sinner. That appeal of repentant faith, right? That is what saves you. That being placed into Christ. That's what saves you. Not the baptism of being dunked into water that might remove a little dirt from your body. It's the appeal that God utilizes that you do in response to the gospel of Jesus Christ, which God graciously grants us. We respond, and that is the appeal of a penitent heart sees his sin or her sin, and cries out to God for forgiveness.

And we know now the object of our faith has to clearly be in the arrival and work of Jesus Christ. So we are not talking about water baptism here, even though the correspondence is just like you got in the ark to make it through the waters. So we get into Christ and we make it through the coming judgment of God one day.

you can post your question. Trish is really faithful. She not only puts them in the mailbag, but then she puts them on, uh, on the radio show for us to answer them. We're going to be right back with more of your calls in just a moment. So don't go away. This is open line with Michael Radonich and Mike Fabares. Some claim Paul is the key person who took the message of the Jewish Messiah. Jesus made it into something Gentile. But Paul is also the one who wrote, brethren,

my heart's desire for Israel is for their salvation. Romans ten one. Chosen people ministries. One of our underwriters wants us all to learn what drove Paul's passion for his own people. They're offering the book The Heart of the Apostle by Rich Freeman, free to all open line listeners. To get this exposition of Romans nine through 11, just go to our website, openline. radio.org. Scroll down to the link that says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries.

Click on that and you'll be taken to a page where you can sign up for your very own free copy of The Heart of the Apostle. Paul. Welcome back to Open Line. So glad that you are listening in today. I'm so grateful that pastor Mike Fabros has joined us. Uh, hey, before we go on, tell people about, uh, Focal Point and what that's about. You know, you mentioned it when you substitute when you guest host, uh, I mentioned it. I could talk about it, but I think you should.

Moody Network. We've just changed our times, by the way. So if you did hear us and it seems like we went away, just check the directory there on Moody Radio on their website and you can find when we're broadcasting on whatever station you might be listening on today. But yes, we love Expositing the word to 30 minute show where we work verse by verse through the Bible, and it's all of the work that we do here

in Southern California. We're happy to to shove it there over the wall into the pipes and have it go all across the nation. We're in Sirius XM radio and everywhere else. We love hearing from our listeners. So if you are a listener to Focal Point, please just go to pastor Mike comm, which is just a quick URL that takes you over to Focal Point website, Focal Point Ministries. That is the place where you can just click on it. Let us know you're listening, tell us what station you're

listening on. And it's such an encouragement. I only have two. Believe it or not, two employees. The rest are all volunteers. We have an army of volunteers. I don't get paid a cent for doing it. We put all of our money right back into the expenses that go into the towers and broadcasting. So pastor Mike comm is where you go to learn about Focal Point. And if you're listening, please let us know. We'd love to hear that you're out there and it's a help to you if it is.

I said, well, I'm a moody professor and I sure would like to talk with him. I think that was the only reason I got got in. You know, I was a moody professor.

word Israel is used in the New Testament. And most people are agreed that 72 it refers to literal Jewish people, even people who believe in replacement theology. Take Romans nine and say, yeah, that's talking about Jewish believers. The one place where they think it isn't is Galatians 616, and this is what Galatians 616 says, uh, for, uh, both circumcision. I'm sorry. Uh, I'm looking for my verse. Uh, Galatians six and it says, uh, I'm looking for the verse now.

It's not 616. He talks about that even though there's a blessing at the end of verse 16. I'm reading the wrong verse. May peace come to all those who follow the standard and mercy to the Israel of God. Galatians 616. So, okay, what is he talking about? Who

is the Israel of God? I think at the end, and I'd love to hear Pastor Mike's explanation too, but I understand that to be referring to Jewish believers, that there are so many Jewish believers that were falling prey to the Galatians ism of saying that Gentiles needed to be circumcised. Paul is saying, listen, anyone that agrees with me that it's just justification by faith, special blessing to you all, and especially additionally a blessing on the Israel

of God. Jewish believers who have not fallen prey to that Galatians stick teaching that legalistic teaching of needing to be circumcised before believing in Jesus, and he gives them a special blessing. So he's actually talking. The Israel of God refers there to Jewish believers. I was wondering what you think. Yeah.

were a very special importance to the Apostle Paul. But the nation itself, and maybe I didn't understand the question quite right. And you can clarify me if you clarify I'm wrong, but the Israel that we do have the lineage of Abraham, I think there's no doubt that we have descendants of Abraham that do now, after this movement back to Israel, are descendants of Abraham. And as God promised in Jeremiah 31, it would take the moon and the fixed order and the sun to go away before

Israel ceased to be a nation before him. So I do think what we have in Israel today, sometimes they do right, sometimes they do wrong. But I'm saying they are descendant from Abraham, just like Doctor Redlich is descended from Abraham.

we look forward to when the Lord Jesus returns. Thanks for your calls, all of you. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thanks for all of you who called or wrote in you make this program possible. Thank you, pastor Mike, for letting me use your studio for joining me today.