From the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Dallas, Texas. Welcome to Open Line. Hello, friends. It's time for the second hour of Open Line with Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America. We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. My name is Michael Ray. I'm the academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. And we are not live
today as we usually are. We're not taking your calls as this is a special pre-recorded edition of Open Line. We are live at the National Religious Broadcasters. We're recording it for you to hear there's an audience here. They are the ones that are going to be asking the questions today. If you'd like to ask a question, normally I'd say call, but not today. Just go to our website openline. radio.org. You'll see a link there that says
Ask Michael a question. Click on that and you can post your question right there and we'll get to it in upcoming weeks. But don't call today. Just listen. And I'm sure that someone will ask the question that you were thinking about. Joining me for this special hour is my friend and I would say regular co-host or regular substitution host on Open Line doctor Mike Fabares of Compass Bible Church in Aliso Viejo. I hope I'm saying that right. It's good. Uh, California.
Your English and Spanish are as good as your Hebrew.
Yeah, I wish I could pronounce it better if it was in Hebrew. I'll tell you that. Anyway, I'm glad you're here with me.
Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for asking me to to come on the program.
Yeah. You know, I really want people to know, uh, that there are there are some people this is, I think, really crucial. There are some people that love to study the Bible and answer questions about it. That's how I actually found you online. The very first time I was listening to your, uh, the podcast of your worship services.
Oh, yeah.
Right. At at Compass Bible. And once a year, I guess you do it. Is that what you do?
Once a year and three services? That's right.
And you take Bible questions. I said this guy's not afraid of anything. He'll take them cold I love this, this is great. So anyway. And I'm so grateful that we've.
Well, you should tell the whole story because I've heard it before. It's because I answered something.
Yeah.
Appropriately about Israel, I think.
Not only did I.
Listen to what hooked you, that's what made you stand up and cheer at that point.
Yeah, it was the very first question that you answered was, how should a Christian think about Israel and the Jewish people today? And I thought, oh, okay, now this is the test.
Yeah.
Here we go. And you answered it exactly as I would.
There you go. Well, then I had to be right.
And I thought, okay, whether I'm right or wrong.
That's right.
I like.
Him. That's right. That was good.
So I'm so glad about that. Well, we're going to start taking some questions right now. Let's do it.
Hi, Michael. Hi. This is Heather.
Hi, Heather.
Okay, so my question has to do with the animal sacrifices in the Old Testament. I just recently heard someone make a comment kind of like, well, they weren't good enough, so Jesus came. But my question is, really, what was the purpose of those? We know in Hebrews it says the blood of bulls and goats could never wash away sin. We understand Jesus death was the payment for sin. But then in Ezekiel it talks about a new temple and sacrifices again, which is like, wait a minute, I thought
that was over. So then it makes you begin to go, what was the whole point of the sacrifices?
Well, let's start with the purpose of Levitical sacrifices. You want to go with that?
Sure. Yeah. If you look at Leviticus chapter one, verse four, this was a great image of substitution. That's the idea, right? Bring the best animal you have. You lay your hand on the head of the animal, and then that blood is spilt and splattering on your sandals and your toes. And here was this picture of you going home saying, okay, God forgives me. And yet my animal did nothing wrong. It it it stays there. It becomes food for the Levitical priests and their kids. Or it's a burnt offering.
It's burnt up. So the picture was simply that the shedding of this blood reminds us that we deserve death. Wages of sin is death, and here is death that symbolically represents what we need, and that is we need. If we're ever going to survive in the presence of God, we need somebody to take our place. And of course, we can't have an animal take the place of a human being, right? We need the perfect human being to take the place of sinful human beings. And so that
was the image of it. It all looked forward. Hebrews ten verse one. It was the shadow of the things that were to come. The substance is in Christ. So we know it was all a picture of what was to come.
Yeah. So they, they're pointing forward but they really although I do believe there was a genuine sense of forgiveness. Uh, those sins were covered the way I kind of look at those Levitical sacrifices. It's sort of like when you run up your, your credit card, spend too much money, and the bill comes and you can't possibly pay it. So what you do is you pay the minimum, which doesn't even cover anything, really. And then you keep running
up your credit card and next month you pay the minimum. Well, that's how the Yom Kippur sacrifice worked. It never took away the guilt, but it covered it until until it came due again next year. So that's what. And but it was pointing forward to the sacrifice that would pay the principal and the interest on on that sin. And that was the death of the Messiah. And then he was resurrected. And he can give us life. But the question then is, why are there sacrifices in Ezekiel 40
through 48 and this? And so some people want to say it's symbolic, not real. But I think there's really going to be a temple. There will really be sacrifices. And people say, well, how can that be now that the sacrifice has been paid? The answer is the Old Testament sacrifices didn't take away sin either. The the Ezekiel temple sacrifices won't take away sin. But there will be people born in the messianic kingdom in the millennium, the thousand year reign of Jesus on earth. And there will
be people who will not have glorified bodies. They will go into the kingdom. They will marry. They will have kids. Their kids will have to come to know the Lord. It says in Isaiah 65 that if someone dies at 100, they will be young. And so as a result of that, death won't be as prevalent. And so people, when they when they are born in the millennium, they will have to trust that Jesus died for them and rose again. And they won't be as, uh, how should I put it?
Aware of the significance of that statement because people won't be dying as much, and as a result, there's going to be actual sacrifices. Like we have the Lord's Supper today to remember what the Lord Jesus did. They will point back. They will be. They won't take away sin, but they will remind us of what the Lord Jesus did for us in taking our our sin in his sacrificial death.
Yeah. I just think there's two ways for us to look at this. You got to look at the big picture, right? Israel did not do what they were supposed to do correctly. And with the Messiah on on the throne, this is all going to be done, right? Yeah. Right. And everything about the Levitical system will be done right. And so that's part of why it's there. And of course, a lot of people will say, hey, this is looking back. It's symbolic. And that's true. Just like the the sacrifices
before Christ look forward. But if you read that section carefully, there is a sense of clean and unclean that is effectuated.
A ceremonial and clean. Unclean.
Correct and clean. Unclean. Just those buzzwords are about ceremonial acceptance. And that is is really the way that that section of Scripture reads. So in the Jewish system, there will be something to those sacrifices, just like you had Jesus in his earthly ministry. Of course, this is prior to the veil ripping. Uh, you had the leper that was cleansed and he said, go to the priest, show yourself
to the priest, bring the appropriate sacrifices. There was a way to do Israel right, and it's going to be done right in the Millennial Kingdom, which will include those sacrifices that do not take away sin. But they do. They are the gate for clean and unclean, and that's ceremonial. And that's important.
Isn't it? Isn't it also true that it's all along? It was faith.
Always.
It's faith in. Well, God told us to do this, to offer these sacrifices. We do it even if we don't understand it as an act of faith and obedience.
I do think they understood that they were because they had to lay their hand on the sacrifice, the animal and then identify. You know, they take this, this animal, identify with it by putting their sin symbolically on the animal. Then the death of the animal, there's an exchange of life. So so the animal dies and I live. So they understood it, but they what they had to do was they had to exercise faith in that process, and then
their sins would be forgiven. The the same way that the death of Jesus as our substitute, it's not enough to say, well, he died. And whether I believe in him or not, God's going to apply his atonement to me. No, there must be faith in his death and his resurrection in order for that benefit to accrue to us.
Thank you. I just think for many of us, there's a we don't quite understand all that. So thank you.
Yep. Okay. Uh. We're going to we're going to take. Oh, we're going to take another question. Okay.
Hi, Michael. Jonathan here with a question. I was reading Micah six earlier today. And you know, Micah six eight has the the classic passage. And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God? But continuing on the conversation about sacrifices before that, in the first, uh, the first two verses preceding in six and seven, it says, with what shall I come before the Lord and bow myself before God on high? And it talks about, shall
I come before him with burnt offerings? Uh, a thousand a thousand goats and or rams, and then, uh, ten thousands of rivers of oil and and so talking about that, it says, well, should I give these sacrifices to, to him? Will this be pleasing to him? And then he says, but this is what I require of you. Uh, when I read that, it kind of struck me and made me think, well, he he did require sacrifices, as you have mentioned. How do I take what he's saying? This
is all that I require of you. But them taking the requirements of of books in the past.
You want to go first?
Yeah. Jonathan. I mean, here's exactly what we just had from our last question, in essence, is that it doesn't matter. This is like Psalm 50. It doesn't matter if you bring all these animals, right? God's like, oh, great, I'm hungry. I need these animals. I've got to have this. God is not in need of anything, right? All of this was to be the icing on top of the cake of a heart that understands. It falls short of the glory of God. And we need God's mercy and his forgiveness.
And I think that's where we're looking at verse eight, the rectification, the repentance, the fruit of repentance that starts in our heart. And of course, it's not the icing that makes the cake, right. This is just what we do as an expression of our heart that is made right with the King. And this is why in Matthew 23, when the Pharisees are castigated for just going through the motions of everything and tithing out their spices, but they're
not interested in justice and doing what's right. This is a great text that really embodies that truth. And the truth is, you better have your heart right. And all of your extension of of worship in the Old Testament systems got to it's got to come from that. It's like if you go Jonathan to church and you're singing the songs of wonderfully theologically sound words, it means nothing, right? Micah one take away the noise of your songs. It
doesn't matter. Unless, of course, your heart is right, then it matters a great deal. And this is very pleasing to the Lord. Of course, the Lord is pleased if if Israelites of the Old Testament do what is right. But it starts with where you are as a human being, and that it presupposes the predicate of it is a repentant heart. And I think that's throughout the Old Testament.
Yeah. When you look at Isaiah one, it says, what are your sacrifices to me? I've had enough of burnt offerings and rams and the fat of well-fed cattle. I have no desire for the blood of bulls, lambs or male goats. When you come to appear before me, who requires this from you? Why, God requires it. But they were coming without faith, without a desire. They were ritualistic. It was mere ceremony. And they thought as long as I got the sacrifice, I'm covered. And God was saying, no,
I need your heart and your sacrifice. He goes on to say that he hates their new moons. He hates their solemn assemblies. Why do you even lift up your hands in prayer? The point is prayer. Obviously, God wants us to pray, but not if our hearts aren't right with him. And so it's not, uh, it's both and not either or. So that's that's what I'm saying. We're going to take a break here. And when we come back, we are going to take more of your questions right
here at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. Joining me today is doctor Mike Fabares, and I'm Michael Melnick, and you're listening to Moody Radio's Open Line. We'll be right back with more questions straight ahead. Jewish people completed our annual Passover observance last weekend. This festival was such a meaningful celebration of redemption to learn the rich teaching of this holiday. Chosen People Ministries, one of our partners, is offering a
free booklet, Passover A time for redemption. Besides explaining the significance of the Exodus from Egypt, this booklet will open our eyes to the way the Passover foreshadows the death and resurrection of Yeshua, Jesus our Passover Lamb. Additionally, comprehending Passover will deepen our understanding of the Messiah Yeshua, the Bread of Life. Celebrating the Lord's Supper will never be
the same after grasping the significance of this festival. For a free copy of Passover A time for redemption, just go to the Open Line website that's online radio.org. Scroll down and you'll see the link that says a free gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll be taken to a page where you can sign up for your very own copy of Passover A time for redemption. And we're back at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and
we're so glad to be here. I'm so glad to be here because I ran into my friend Mike Fabares, pastor of Compass Bible Church, where answering people's Bible questions right here at the conference, we're grateful to be here at the conference and see all these folks. And we're going to go right back to questions right now.
Hi. My name is Shannon. And my question is, with heaven being a perfect place of peace and communion with God, what does free will look like?
First of all, I just want to say that, uh, free will is something there's a moral responsibility that we all have. And Adam and Eve had sort of an untested freedom, I guess you could say. And then they failed. And it affected all of us. And then God redeemed us. And when we're in his presence, the Bible says, when we see him, we shall be like him. Uh, those of us who know him. And so I would say, what happens is we are confirmed in his likeness. We are now free to do the right thing and not
the wrong. And so I think that's the simplest answer, is that we are we're free. Uh, do you want to add anything to that?
Yeah, I wrote a chapter on this because it is it's an eventual question you're going to have. Right? Most people think, well, I'm going to be like Adam and Eve, right? I'm going to be I'm going to be holy. And why can't I do what Adam and Eve did? But that's not what theologians have rightly understood. And you use the word and they use it a lot. We're confirmed in our righteousness. It was a hard chapter to write.
Probably the hardest in this book called Ten Mistakes People Make About Heaven hell in the afterlife, not a moody publication. So it's not great.
No, it's a.
Good book, but it's not a great.
Book. I mentioned it all the time anyway.
That book I worked to find everything I could, knowing the basic concept. Here's where the easy, the simple person can go. Jesus says forever and ever, right? He makes it clear. So if you don't care about what happens when you flip the switch and how the electricity gets to the bulb and how it lights up, that's all you need to know, Jesus said, forever and ever. Right? We're going to be there, perfected in a perfect place,
making perfect good decisions forever and ever. But if you want to understand it, that's where I think Jonathan Edwards and others have rightly dug into this to try and come to a conclusion that there's something about that post tested experience. Even in the millennial Kingdom, I would assume you have this view. Uh, the reason Satan is let out at the end of this, right? You need that time of post testing confirmation. Everyone in the kingdom, including
the angels, are post tested. And I think there's something about that. Testing and redemption and all that. We see that we're going to glorify God, not because we're going to say, look, I made good decisions, but because Christ has has redeemed me. And now we're going to be perfected. And there'll be nothing against that perfection. Our flesh totally in sync with, with God, our minds, our hearts, our spirit. No, tempter.
All of that I think is key to this. Or we go back to what Jesus said forever and ever. We're going to be in this place forever and ever.
Also, will those of us who have glorified bodies in the Millennial Kingdom. That won't be a test for us. That's true, that's true. But the people who are born in or enter the millennial Kingdom without glorified bodies, they're believers, but they enter the kingdom. That's what that test is at the end of the thousand years. That's right, that's right. So, okay.
Hi, this is Brenda from Tupelo, and I was reading the Bible but was confused and maybe you could help me. I don't know, understand what's the difference between the tabernacle and the temple? The same thing seemed to be happening, and I don't. I don't know the difference. Could you help me understand that? Thank you.
Sure.
The Prentiss sounds sweet.
Yeah, yeah. Southern. Uh, there we go. Uh, well, Brenda, here's the thing. It's the Leviticus, uh, or Exodus lays out the tabernacle, and it was temporary. But in the the Torah, it says over and over that God's going to choose a place where he will make his name dwell. And that was always an anticipation that there would be a permanent structure where God would commune with people, where there would be fellowship restored, and that would be the temple. And of course, that's what Solomon.
Yeah, the simple answer, Brenda, is one's a tent and one's a building. Yeah. And yeah, even the Feast of Tabernacles, if you depending on the translation you're reading, right? They were. They were tenting. They were intense. The feast of Booths. Right. Picture it that way. The idea of them going through the wilderness, they were all intense. And of course, the worship center was going to be in a tent. That's the tabernacle. Yeah. One day it'll be a temple. Temple? That's a building.
Yeah. And so there was first, it's so interesting. There was a tabernacle, then there was the first temple, then there was the second temple. Then the second temple was rebuilt and became Herod's Temple. Because it was so fancy that was destroyed. There's going to be a Ezekiel temple. There's going to be a temple before that. The false messiahs temple in the in the tribulation period. Uh, but there's all just this is going to sound funny, but it's all just one temple. Uh, and I kind of
think of Yankee Stadium. Uh, there was a Yankee Stadium, the house that Ruth built, and then, uh, it was taken down to the foundations and rebuilt about 1970. And then it was torn down and it was rebuilt across the street. It's still Yankee Stadium, And that's sort of how the temple is from generation to generation.
Okay.
So hi, I have a question. My name is Rob. Um, would you recommend reading the additional books that are in the, say, Orthodox or Catholic Bibles?
Would I recommend reading them?
There seems to be some. There's additional books that are not in a traditional Bible.
Like the apocryphal books.
Exactly. Is there value in that.
Book of Tobit?
Things like that. What's your thoughts on that?
Well, first of all, the I would always just say, I don't believe that they have the mark of, of canon on it. They are not inspired. And, uh, the Bible uses the word inspired. All Scripture is inspired. God breathed. And so I would say, uh, they are not inspired, but that doesn't. There are a lot of books I read that aren't inspired. And I remember when I was a first year college student at Moody Bible Institute and I took New Testament survey. Uh. Did you you were a moody student.
I was. And I took New Testament survey.
And we had to read the Apocrypha before we read the New Testament. And the reason was to set the cultural religious milieu of where the New Testament was sitting.
So, yeah, I think that, uh, I would say the practical question to answer your question directly, if you've read the Bible through from cover to cover ten times, then I don't mind someone reading through the Apocrypha.
There we go.
Because you really need to set the base. And if you do read the Apocrypha, after being well acquainted with the Bible, you'll find this. This is obvious why it's not canonical. It doesn't even, uh, in many places have a kind of integrity historically. And so there's nothing wrong with reading it. The problem today is especially with Roman Catholics, this is because the Council of Trent and after in the in the Counter-Reformation, they were looking for a few
passages to pin some of their doctrines on. And so they said, well, we're going to make these the scripture. Well, everyone was into reading the Apocrypha before the Reformation and even after the Reformation. But then they said you are anathema if you don't see these on par with Scripture.
And that's where there became a battle. But before that, everyone said, yeah, if you want to learn some of the things, particularly in First and second Maccabees, you need to read these books, because they give us the historical bridge between the two Testaments. But everyone knew there was a 400 year period of silence.
Yeah. And as Lou Goldberg, my predecessor at Moody Bible Institute, used to say, it was dime store literature. I don't know if anyone knows what a dime store is anymore, but it's what that that common literature that people read all the time. And they were they found it kind of religious and interesting, but they didn't give it the authority of Scripture. What I fear today, like we read it as historical cultural background to the New Testament, as
we said. But what I fear today is that when people read it, they're looking for something deeper than Scripture, more than Scripture. Uh, and, and so I would just be cautious about that, that they give us a cultural milieu, but that's it.
But it sounds like scripture. And that's why sometimes if you read like Ben Sira and the, uh, proverbial books, they sound like you're reading the Book of Proverbs. They're just that ancient Jewish literature. Um, that basically can can lure you into thinking, well, I'm reading the Bible, but you've got to know that the church never accepted these as canonical, on par as God breathed until the Counter Reformation.
You read wisdom books like that in the Apocrypha. It's sort of like reading the seven Habits of Highly Effective People. It might have some truth in there, but it's not Scripture. Correct. So good. Uh, well, uh, we're going to ask a question real quick. Let's let's see if we can get that last one in before the break.
Hello. My name is George. And where was Noah's Ark AAC builds are.
I'm just going to start by saying Mike Fabares has a big backyard. That's right. And that's that's where.
All the big ships are built.
Yeah. It's near the Pacific Ocean, that's why. So, uh, uh, where was it built? Uh, I'm not sure that that there's an answer to that.
No, I mean, how could we know? We're not even. Here's what you need to remember about the flood. Everything from Genesis 6 to 9 that catastrophically changed the world. And so when people are asking questions about everything prior to Genesis six, I don't have any definitive answers. And I don't have my geography anywhere in my own mind, completely satisfied that even some of the rivers that are named the same prior are found in the same place.
Everything was the foundations of the deep, uh, were were brought up. They were huge earthquakes that changed the topography of the Earth. It changed so much of of the area. How do you know? You can't possibly know. So, uh. Well, anyway, we're, uh, let me just say where we're at. We're at the National Religious broadcasters. People are here. We've got a live audience, but it's a pre-recorded program, so don't call today. Joining me today is Mike Fabares from Compass Bible Church. We're glad.
I'm glad that he's here helping with the hard questions. And we're going to come right back with more. This is Michael Ray Dolnick, and you're listening to Open Line. We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick bringing the Febc mailbag every week. Learn how far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until all I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of
lives changed by Messiah all across the globe. Again. You can hear the podcast when you visit Febc. Org. That's Febc. Org. Welcome back to this very special edition of Open Line. Uh, my name is Michael Ray Melnick, and we are at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. And we have a live audience here, but we're still going to do the Febc mailbag. Joining me is doctor Mike Fabares. And now joining me is, uh,
Tricia McMillan, producer of Open Line. And I do want to say that I appreciate Febc Far Eastern Broadcasting Company for partnering with us to bring the mailbag every week. It's a wonderful ministry that brings the gospel to people through media and personal contact through people. And I think that is a marvelous ministry. If you want to know more, check out their podcast. It's called Until All I've Heard.
Best way you can find it on any podcast distributor that you have, but you can also go to their website febc. Org. So here we are. This is a team right here. I think this is so interesting because, you know, even though you're not regularly on Moody Radio on Openline, you are regularly on Moody Radio with Focal Point every day.
Yeah. Focal point airs every day, half an hour. A Bible teaching line by line through Scripture and whenever you're sick, which you're not sick. Very often I do get the call from time to time to host this wonderful show with Trish.
Or if I'm traveling.
Or when you're traveling. That's right.
Or I know you're going to host, uh, at graduation when I'm the dean, I've got to be there handing out diplomas. So, uh, happily, you get to go in and answer questions. I'd rather do what you're doing that way.
And, Trish, are you going to be there that day?
I'm going to be there. Oh, good.
Very good. So, uh, I appreciate you sitting in. That's part of the team. I really do appreciate it. And Trish is always part of the team. We have this great team. Chris Sieghart is here. He's our engineer today. We have a wonderful team. And there's a team. We have teammates that people don't even know. Those are the people who are our kitchen table partners. They are part of the team. They contribute every month. So I can be on the air every week and I am so
grateful for them. If anyone's interested in becoming a kitchen table partner, one of the things that we really like to do is send a digital Bible study. It's an audio Bible study that you get in your email. You click on attrition. I produce it sometimes Eve is on with me and uh, and we do about a 5 or 10 minute Bible study that's exclusively for our kitchen table partners. Well, how do you become a kitchen table partner? All you have to do is go to our website.
That's Openline radio.org. And when you go there, uh, you can sign up to become a kitchen table partner. And I'm losing the number. What's the phone number?
(888) 644-7122.
There you go.
888644.
Thank you. Trish. Uh, what would I do without you?
Yeah, the world would stop.
Spinning, I think.
That's great. Thanks, Tricia.
You're welcome.
Okay.
There we go. Okay, we're going to do the mailbag right now. So, what do we got?
Our first question is from Andy in Ohio. He listens to CRF. He's doing a deep dive into Isaiah and said it's pretty cool. Mhm. So he got to Isaiah 1412. And the King James version uses Lucifer's name. But none of the other translations do. Uh, and he said the presence of that name has impacted how I read the entire passage. And I've heard many sermons about the five I will statements that come later. And all of those
treat this passage as being about Satan. But now I'm wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree because I'm not finding this in some of the other places I've looked. Uh, do you have any insight as to why the King James translators decided to put Lucifer's name in the passage? And is this passage talking about Satan?
Okay, well, first of all, Lucifer is not in that text. I looked it up in Hebrew and it it actually has these words. Uh, it says star of the morning. Sun of the dawn. Those are the Hebrew. That's the translation of the actual Hebrew words. So, uh, I'm not. I can't speak to why. Maybe, you know, why do you think it's.
It comes from the Vulgate, as I recall. I don't have any notes in front of me, but it has a etymological connection to being a light bearer.
Okay. So the Latin word.
Yes.
There we go. Okay. So, because Luce.
Would be light, I assume. Yes.
Luce. Like, illuminate? Yes.
Right. Yeah. Okay.
So? So that's. So that comes from there.
And here's the objection, by the way. A lot of people say, oh, it can't we don't like that because that's a name of of Jesus. And I've had people call in and say that to me like, well, he's the morning star. That's what Peter says. Well that's true. Right. He's also called a lot of things that Jesus is called, right? So it's not a stumbling block for us to see that here. Daystar. Right. Is Christ is the real Daystar, obviously, right. He's an angel of light, right? But he's neither angel
nor light, right. In the sense that we would say angel in the in the vocabulary of people think he's a good he's a demon and, you know, he's darkness, but. So we shouldn't stumble.
Think about this in John eight, uh, the Lord Jesus says, I am the light of the world. In Matthew five he says, you are the light of the world. And so when I believe that this. Now let me just jump here. And I think we agree about this. We mentioned it earlier that Isaiah 14 is being directed to the king of Babylon, but with the king of Babylon, there's all these earthly, powerful kings. According to Daniel, ten
have forces behind them, evil forces. Uh, and so I think what happens here in the middle of the chapter when it addresses him as son of the morning. Uh, son of the dawn. Whatever it is. Uh, it's going to the power behind this evil king of Babylon. And there you have the five I wills. Yeah. Where? But he says he wants to be, like, the Most High. And when he was created, he was a beautiful, created being. Right. And then he wanted to be the very one who
was the uncreated being. He wanted to be as great as him.
Yeah. The answer to the question. I wouldn't stumble over the translation because there's a connection to what is in the Hebrew text here. It's just that if you're going to look at this and try and back off of the fact that Satan is seen in the background here, if not in the foreground of some of these, I will statements go to Ezekiel 28. It does the same thing. It sets up a perfect paradigm for us that I think is followed here as we read this, because Ezekiel 28,
I mean, it's hard to deny it, right? The way the cherubim is used. Right.
You were in Eden.
Right in Eden. So that one to me is is, uh, absolutely, 100%. This one I know gets a lot of of, uh, criticism. And we've talked about this off air before. We didn't get to this statement. But I think so many people shy away from these things when they start looking at Isaiah or Ezekiel or any text of Scripture as purely a human, uh, authorship. Right. And we've got to remember
the dual authorship of Scripture from beginning to end. If these are words that are God breathed, right, God is communicating something beyond what the knowledge of Isaiah or Jeremiah would have. God is the ultimate author of Scripture, and this shouldn't open up our minds to all kinds of interpretation, but it does. We've got to keep in mind the dual authorship. And in this I think we see the satanic power behind Babylon.
And listen, I don't think Isaiah would be surprised to think that the King of Babylon was empowered syntactically. And just think of Genesis three. I've heard people say, well, Satan is in in Genesis three. It's only a serpent. Well, wait a minute. Even in Genesis. Snakes didn't talk. And they certainly all things that God made were good. So this snake seems to have a malicious intent to. So, you know, there's a power behind the serpent that's opening its mouth.
And revelation puts it to rest. Yeah, right.
Clearly. Yeah. The serpent of old. So I think that's what's happening with the king of Babylon. That's what's happening with the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28. Yes, it's addressing them. But then it goes, you know what's empowering? This? This is the enemy. Okay.
All right. Thank you. Thank you for that answer. Uh, CK in Washington listens to KMP in Luke 1941 through 44, which says as he approached this is Jesus and saw the city. He wept over it, saying, if you knew this day what would bring peace, but now it is hidden from your eyes. For the days will come on you when your enemies will build an embankment against you,
surround you and hem you in on every side. They will crush you and your children within, within you, to the ground, and they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation. So CJ wants to know what is it that if they had known that that day, what would have been different? It's as if you knew that day what would bring peace. But now it's hidden. So like would, would Rome not have sacked Jerusalem or would it have altered other events?
Well, the simple question here is what? Why? Why did Jerusalem get destroyed? And the answer is because Israel failed to recognize as a nation not not individuals, but as a whole. The nation did not recognize their time of visitation by the Messiah. They didn't recognize that Jesus was the Messiah. And as a result, the discipline that God brought was the destruction of Jerusalem, not the rejection of Jewish people for all time, not taking away their promises
that God made, but the destruction of Jerusalem. And it's important to see that the Lord wept over this. And, uh, to me, you know, you stand on the Mount of Olives. There's a church there called Dominus Flevit in Latin. Our Lord wept. And I had a student that one summer spent the whole summer. She said she was going to figure out what broke God's heart so that she could serve in that ministry, whatever it is. And so she spent the summer reading the New Testament. What breaks God's heart?
And she said, Jesus wept twice, once at Lazarus grave over the unbelief of the people, and once here over Jerusalem for the unbelief about the Messiah. She said, it's the unbelief of Israel that made the Lord Jesus weep. And she said, now I know what breaks his heart. And she's serving in Jerusalem now, which I think is phenomenal. Uh, but, uh, I think that that's that's wouldn't you agree that that's the Jerusalem.
Absolutely. I agree with that. Precisely. And I think Romans 11 is a great commentary on this text. Right. Hidden from your eyes here in verse 42, again, as Doctor Riedel rightly said, it's not to every last Jew, but he says, this partial hardening of Israel has come right. And so that's what they miss. They miss their Messiah and the kingdom being offered, as we often say. Right.
They they rejected Christ, and Christ wept over that. And in God's big plan, obviously now we have this period of time with this new thing called the church, and that's going to fulfill God's plan until we get back to seeing that great Romans 11 revival of Jacob being turned to the Messiah.
And the great news here as we go to break, is that there's even today, in this period, a remnant according to God's gracious choice. That's sort of down payment, because one day God's going to bring all Israel. The whole nation will turn in faith to Jesus and be redeemed by him and delivered by him. We're looking forward to that day. Uh, we're going to come right back
with more of your questions. You're listening to Open Line at the National Religious Broadcasters with Mike Bowers, Tricia McMillan and me, Michael Ray. We'll be right back. Have you ever wondered how we got the Bible? The story of the Bible by Carl Laney takes you on a fascinating journey through scriptures from divine inspiration to modern translations. Doctor Laney reveals how God gave us his word. This book will deepen your confidence in the Bible's reliability while answering
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Yeah, right. Well, we're going to go right back to questions right now okay.
My name is Greg and I just have a I just marvel at the, um, just the synergy of the Bible from front to back. And, um, we were reading the daily Bible reading with our kids and In numbers eight just the other day, and it says it's talking about the cleansing of the Levites. And it says thus you shall separate the Levites from among the people of Israel,
and the Levites shall be mine. And then you go down a few verses and he says, for they are wholly given to me from among the people of Israel, instead of all who opened the womb, the firstborn of all the people of Israel. So I'm fascinated, first of all, of that pattern of substitution. But why there? He had all the firstborn. That would be a substitution. But now he's going to make all the Levites. A substitution. Can you maybe expound on that a little?
Well, God's choice is what I would say. Uh, I think that he, uh. I don't think God changes his mind. I think he wanted to. Because today in Judaism, we still do the redemption of the firstborn. So that's to remind people that God redeemed the firstborn. Uh, and it is a, a sense that, uh, people still have to remember that, uh, that God redeemed the firstborn out of
Egypt and they belong to him. And now God chose to make, uh, the the priests and the Levites serve him, and but they still have to remember they it's sort of like they're substitutes for the the firstborns that were redeemed.
Yeah. And I just think the concept in general. Right. The hierarchy of siblings, this represents everyone living on borrowed time, right? No one deserves. Which goes back to the Exodus. Right? In Exodus chapter 12, the idea of God saying, you, you all deserve to die. The wages of sin is death, but you get to live.
We all deserve to die. Right.
That's true. Yeah. And here is the representative of your family, this generation from this mom. And. Yeah, but the Levites end up being that. And remember, they don't get land, they don't get property. The Lord is their inheritance. And they become. And I remember being struck by that to reading that afresh. It's just interesting how they serve as the stand ins. As God says, these are mine. They don't have they don't get to have a regular Jewish
life in an agrarian society. They now are God's people, serving God's interests and doing God's work. And think about it even on the Sabbath, as the Bible points out, they don't get to rest like everyone else. They're working.
They're working.
The idea of them being just focused on God was God's way of saying, you all should do that.
But I just think, but they did get to eat more steak.
They did. They ate a lot of steak and smelt good at their workplace.
That's right. So okay.
I am Keith from Peoria, Illinois, WGBH radio, and we're appearing to be closer to Jesus's return. I just wondering if you could comment a little bit on the things that you're seeing, signs of the times, the temple being rebuilt, the red heifer, things like that, where we're getting excited for his return and some of those signs.
I'm just going to start by saying that I happen to believe, and I think it's from what the Lord Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour is coming. I believe in Imminency, and it's one of the reasons that I believe that the rapture when the Lord what I call it, the the great swoosh. No, the the.
The great swoosh. No, I'm writing that down.
You know, when we're just called up, you know, uh, that can happen any moment and nothing else has to happen. Uh, because Imminency requires that. And and so because of that, uh, it's, it's important that that we recognize that so often we think, oh, oh, these things have to happen first. And no, nothing has to happen. Although I have to say that the rebirth of the State of Israel. So many of the end time events revolve around what's going on in Israel. That
tells me we're closer. However, I think that the the idea is that the we can be snatched at any moment. Uh, did you want to say anything?
I was just going to say.
I do think that God would have us all expect his return. I absolutely believe in the imminence. The doctrine of the imminence. I think it could happen at any time. Nothing has to happen in history or archaeology or politics to have Christ take his church home. But I think all of these things, like in every generation, we should be expecting it. If we're not supposed to be surprised at his coming. The only way to not be surprised is something that's not announced is to always expect it.
And so I even think some of the things in, in the news, uh, sometimes are just little reminders and nudges from God's Spirit to always be ready.
Yeah.
We always have to be ready. And I would even go further. Uh, a lot of the stuff you hear. Oh, they're rebuilding the temple. No they're not. Uh, the red heifer. The red heifer is completely misunderstood. Judaism said there has to be a red heifer without even one white hair. That's not what the Bible requires. So there's a lot of things. And every time there's a war in the Middle East, people say, ah, this is it. Well, truth to tell, there have been a lot of wars in
the Middle East. Uh, when someone called Open Line during the pandemic and said, I heard that the vaccine, the, uh, the required vaccine is that that's the mark of the beast. And I said he said, I heard a rumor about that. I said, did you start that rumor? So, uh, the the point is, there's always going to be something happening during the days of World War Two, it was Hitler and Mussolini, uh, during the time of the Reformation. Martin Luther said it was the Pope who was the Antichrist
that was being revealed. And so there's always something happening in history. And I think you're right, Mike. It's just to keep us on our toes. It could happen at any moment, don't you think?
Absolutely.
Yeah. And be ready. Be ready. Everybody be ready. Uh, well, thank you for joining me this hour.
It's been fun.
I really, really appreciate it. And that's the program for the for the week. Uh, thanks for listening. Everyone out there. Uh, especially thanks to those of you here who asked the questions. Really appreciate you doing that. And thanks, Tricia, for all
you do. And, Chris, uh, to keep the program on target. Remember, keep in touch with Open Line during the week by going to our website, online radio.org has all the links you're looking for, whether it's a, uh, how to give a get our current resource or to become a kitchen table partner. It's all there. Keep reading the Bible. We'll talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor Michael Radulovic is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.