Hour 2: God is Working Among Jewish People

Hello friends. It's time for the second hour of Open Line with Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick. This is Moody Radio's Bible study across America. Normally we talk about your questions about the Bible, God, and the spiritual life, but this is a special edition of Open Line. It's a pre-recorded one. We are here at the summit on Opposing anti-Semitism at the campus of Moody Bible Institute. And because of that,

Great to be here today.

Yeah. And so you have a special role in the summit. Your role will be to be the emcee kind of make everything go. And I guess you'll be giving me the signal when I'm talking too long. Is that the plan?

I think that's one of the rules of engagement that will be participating in together.

So now, uh, I'll mention a couple of other guests that we have, uh, Rachel from Tel Aviv, from actually Givatayim. Right? Yes. Uh, Rachel is here. She's a moody graduate. From what year?

Oh, I graduated in 2002. Wow. I know time flies.

It's amazing. So Rachel was my student in Jewish studies. I've known her and her family forever, uh, and, uh, for her whole life, actually. And I'm. I'm so grateful that she came to Moody and, uh, and now is living in Israel. And we're going to talk about that in just a bit. Okay. And then also joining us at this hour is a current student at Moody Bible Institute. His name is Michael. So Michael, I'm so glad that you're here with us. Uh, hello? Uh, I'm. I'm very

What can it be besides Jewish studies? That's right.

And where are you from in Israel?

I'm from Netanya.

Netanya, which is just north of Tel Aviv.

Yeah, just like half an hour north. Yeah.

So it's part of the Tel Aviv metropolitan area that is in the center of Israel. Now, do you speak French?

Thankfully, no.

Oh, well, because in Netanya I felt like when I was there, everyone was a French, uh, a Jewish person from France who had moved to Israel. Is that what you found to be the case, too?

It is the case. But I do speak Russian. And there's also a big, big Russian Russian population there.

Yeah, Russian Jewish population.

I fall into that group.

That's right. Okay, good. Well, we're going to have a little conversation here. I'm so glad that you're here, but I wanted to start with with you, William. Uh, now, you wouldn't expect. I wouldn't have expected when I came to Moody, that I would find this person who cared so deeply about Israel and the Jewish people. Where did that come from?

Well, if truth be told, I was introduced to Jewish people through the medium that my grandparents provided for me by a show called Sanford and Son.

Oh, really? Oh, funny.

Sanford and Son. And so, I don't know if our listeners will remember, uh, Fred G. Sanford, who maintained a junkyard in South Central Los Angeles. But throughout those episodes, Jewish people, Jewish heritage would show up consistently. And then I would ask my grandparents about it, and my grandparents had a high view of Jewish people. They would tell me, son, Jewish people have a lot in common with African Americans. They've had to face some difficult, adverse times in their history.

Know, I just think it's so interesting because Fred Sanford was played by Redd Foxx, who was, you know, kind of a well-known comedian. But I think they had that little Jewish element on that show because he had worked with so many Jewish comedians, and that was his connection to them. And he brought them on his show and had all those discussions with them. Don't you think that's the source of that on the program?

Oh, absolutely. And, you know, blacks and Jews had a unique relationship during that time because there were things prohibiting blacks and Jews from participating in some of the mediums of the day. And so they came together to do some great things. And my grandparents realized that, and they taught me at an early age, they even talked about Sammy Davis Jr. Of course, you know, and said, hey, that's Sammy. And guess what? He's Jewish too.

Yeah, he converted to Judaism. He was. And he was the consummate entertainer. So then you were going to say there was something else that had an effect as you grew older?

Oh, yeah. So my last two years of high school were in Highland Park, Illinois. So I went to Highland Park High School, which is a predominantly Jewish community, and I made friends there. I visited friends during their bar mitzvahs. I had an opportunity to eat in their homes. And one of the things I loved about being in that environment. Hey, not only did we have the Christmas holidays, but we also got school off for the Jewish holidays. And so

Thank you. Wow. That's that's. I never would have thought that Sanford and Son would have that kind of impact. That's phenomenal. So that's great. Uh, now, uh, Doctor Washington mentioned mentioned Israel. Rachel. you you were in Israel. Uh, you live there? Uh, you're not originally from Israel. When did you move?

I moved about 15 years ago. And it's definitely home. It's the right choice for me. I'm happy I did it.

Yeah. I remember when you were a student. You were. You were really focused. I'm going to move to Israel. And. And then you did. I lived in New York for a while and then moved off to Israel. So. And you could.

Decide which one's better. New York, Israel, they're both, you know. Yeah.

When people ask me where I'm from, I always say I'm from the Holy Land, Brooklyn. But, uh, the the thing is, Israel is is a little bit different now than, than even New York in terms of the Jewish community. There's a lot of anti-Semitism exploding in New York City right now, which doesn't seem possible. It's considered one of the greatest Jewish cities in the world, if not the greatest Jewish city outside of Israel. And yet there's a lot of anti-Semitism. But I wanted to hear from you.

I was, yes.

Tell me about that day.

It was an early morning Shabbat when suddenly the sirens started to go off. Quiet morning. It was a holiday. A very sacred holiday. It was Simchat Torah, which is the day when you celebrate the giving of the Torah. And it was the end of.

The completion of the reading cycle.

Yeah, we started over again. Genesis. It was the end of the High Holidays. The children were supposed to go to school the next day. They had just had holidays, and suddenly the whole country wakes up to a start to the sound of these horrendous noises in your head of move fast, go to the shelters. And everyone went and everyone's confused, what, 630 in the morning? There's sirens. And it didn't stop. It happened all day long. Wow.

And when did you hear about the massacre in the South?

I there was rumors through social media, through WhatsApp, but it wasn't really being talked about on the news yet. And remember, two people who are very religious will not be turning on the television that day or looking at their phones. It was a lack of communication.

Partially. It was very.

Difficult. Yeah. So really only until the end of the Sabbath on that Saturday night as well as into Sunday, did people start to realize the extent that this was it was not just an incursion.

Yeah. That the, the very usually you think, oh, it's a little terrorist incursion. It may have done the little thing that this was a full scale attack.

Coordinated in multiple places. Yeah, it was unheard of. It was utterly surprising. Yeah.

And air with those paragliders, paragliders and sea from the Mediterranean and land and trucks. Uh, just horrific. Uh, if anyone doesn't know, more than 1200 people murdered that day by Hamas terrorists as they surged across first, I heard there were 3000, uh, today, uh, recently I've, I've heard some estimates that say, well, maybe we were wrong. Maybe it was up to 6000 terrorists that that broke through and captured 251 people, murdered over 1200, uh, and maimed

I was yeah, I just arrived in the States from Israel, settled in, and then boom. Yeah.

And so what happened for you?

For me, I remember we came back from, uh, Friday night dinner. It's a Jewish tradition to hold Friday night dinners, receive the Sabbath. Yeah. We came back with friends from the dinner. And I remember sitting in one of our common areas here at Moody. I remember sitting I opened my phone and I see rockets, like notifications about rockets. And I was thinking to myself, ah, this is this is usual. We're used to this. This is fine. Nothing's happening.

So obviously you were here at Moody. What could you do? There's nothing you could do. So, uh, just a few weeks later, you were called up to the military?

Yes, I was called up immediately. Immediately with everybody. Um, but I thought, oh, it's not that serious. In the beginning, we just did not, as Rachel said, we just did not know what was happening. And then when I realized the the the scale, the scope of this tragedy of this event. Yeah. I decided that I'm leaving my studies and just going back home to serve with my unit. I'm a tank commander in my military profession. Um, so I did that, and I fought for three months. Um, in the Gaza Strip.

So, I mean, obviously we saw a lot of video on CNN and different, uh, TV stations, uh, cable stations. Uh, so what was it like? Uh, I mean, I the imagery that that the way the media portrayed it is as if Israel were was the Israeli Israel Defense Forces was somehow looking for civilians to hurt them. What was your experience in Gaza?

The first thing that comes to mind is that it was very boring. It's very not exciting. But to answer your question, I think the main thing is that what speaks to it the strongest is that I did not see with my eyes any civilians at all who were fighting in the north of the Gaza Strip. We were going on like routine patrols and like on attacks on Some neighborhoods there to make sure that there's no terrorists there and to clear it out. It's a war in the end, and I did not see any civilians.

That's because Israel had given maps and directions to tell the civilians to get out. Right.

Every time before an attack, in an unprecedented way that no other army in the world does. Israel warns all of the civilians in a certain area to evacuate, to leave. They it's even more than that because Israel gives them directions where to go and where it is going to be safe, letting them escape, but also risking terrorists escaping with them.

So you know that what you said. My son served in the IDF. Not not in a war zone, but he was in a combat unit, and he had to do patrols back when the there were a lot of Incursions from the the. When the Muslim Brotherhood was controlling Egypt, there were a lot of terrorist incursions where he was stationed, and there was a lot of patrols. And he I asked him what it was like. He said it was boring.

Yeah. That's just the reality of being a soldier. Yeah. Nothing happens most of the time. Yeah.

I thought that was interesting that you said the same thing he did. It was boring. You know, just you're doing the patrol you're doing. And then every now and then he says, mostly boring. And then every now and then it becomes more than exciting. Yeah. And the other thing, and I wonder if this is true with you in your experience, he says that all the training kicks in. So you just go on. You do what you're supposed to do in the situation. You don't get all hyper.

There's definitely an adrenaline rush. Yeah, when something happens. But Mostly, yes, I would say. I would say that is the the experience, especially as be as tank as people who operate a tank, soldiers who operate a tank. We are trained on so many routine procedures that we just kick in immediately and we just act, act according to the procedures that we've been trained, trained upon for years and years and years.

That's exactly what he said. Same thing. Yeah. So, uh, well, now here at Moody, we had two students. We're going to talk to the second student that went off that was called up another Israeli student. Uh, but what were we doing here at Moody when students were called up? Uh, I think that that I've noticed that you were very concerned.

Very concerned, uh, Doctor Melnick, because, unfortunately, I've had to. experience death when it invades a college community, and the likelihood that these two were going to the front lines and the ramifications that would occur. Put me in a mode of thinking, okay, how do we prepare the community in the event something adversely happens? And so prior to both guys leaving, we had a solemn assembly time in chapel, uh, which we communicated that Michael and Sergei would be leaving.

Much they wanted to pray for them, how much they cared for.

They prayed for them and cried and constantly sent me emails when they were away, uh, asking for updates. And, uh, while they were there, I got those two guys to do a video with Michael and Sergei standing in front of his, uh, tank and played it in chapel, and the place just went up for grabs when they saw him and recognized that they were safe. But, you know, I just admire their hearts, their bravery, their commitment to

We prayed a lot for the civilians because we care. We believe everyone's made in the image of God, and we believe that God and I know Israel cares. They don't want civilians to suffer. And we were here at Moody not only praying for the success of Israeli soldiers, but that they would successfully find Hamas and not and not and civilians wouldn't get into harm's way. We we prayed that quite a bit here at Moody. And I think that that was I think that's, uh, speaks well

That's a very good question, because you have October 7th, and we talked previously about the hardships and the, uh, the depth of worry and concern and surprise of that day. But to answer the question, October 8th was even worse because as soon as we turned to the next day, you see pockets of anti-Semitism start to erupt throughout the world. Why? Where's the support for Israel in the time of coming beside her in the midst of the massacre? And that was the opposite, I heard.

I heard actually, at Harvard, the student group blamed Israel for the attack, which was shocking. A consortium of student groups did that, but mostly from the governments of the world. We heard sympathy, and I was on the radio on October uh, seventh or eighth. I don't remember when it was, but I guess it was the seventh because it was after, uh, here in the States. It was it was like the eighth in Israel, but the seventh here. And, uh, I said to some folks I was with, yeah, their sympathy.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Now that that was a little tough for you. You got called up in your next to last semester, is that right?

It was my last semester. Your last semester? That's it?

Yeah, yeah. So you got called up. You could have said, no, I can't come because I have to finish my last semester of school.

Yes. And because I have a wife. Yeah. I said staying here.

So what did you do?

I couldn't say no. My heart just was broken this day. No. Michael was talking about his experience and seeing that my sister sent me videos in the first day. And when family sends you something like that. My whole family lives in Israel. Same like Michael. I couldn't stay here. This is just broke my heart. So I flew back.

Yeah, you flew back. It was a little tough getting a flight. I know, to get to Israel. But you got it.

Yeah, it was interesting.

Yeah. And? And you served for a couple of months.

So I served with chosen people there. Yes. I worked with humanitarian help as much as possible. Um, when I came to the military, it was a little bit tough to join for me. I do something different from Michael, but, yeah, I did humanitarian help. I saw him a couple of times, which was an encouragement for both of us. It was amazing. So couple people who just came to faith and nobody

So then you I know that you took extensions for your courses. We have a thing at Moody called Fifth Week Extension, and that means you have five weeks to complete your course. Uh, if you get called away, sometimes students become ill in the middle of the semester or something like that. They get the extension. You had the called away to Israel extension. And, uh, Uh, Michael said,

I couldn't stay longer. So yes, I did extensions, did the classes, honestly enjoyed it. You know, doing a Daniel Revelation class in the middle of the war kind of put it in perspective.

Yes. That was of course, I was teaching and you were in there. So that was that was kind of fun to to hear from you after, you know, after the semester was over, you got it all done and you graduated and you got back here and you walked. Now, uh, most people I know from Israel go back to Israel almost immediately, but you're you're serving with chosen People ministries. They're the co-sponsor of the summit opposing anti-Semitism. And you're in New York City. Where do you live?

Right. I live in Queens now, which is very exciting in the Jewish neighborhood. What neighborhood? In Forest Hills.

I used to live right near there. Yeah, so And so you're living in New York and now New York. I know the greatest Jewish city in the world. People say you lived in New York, Rachel. Right. I did, yeah, in Queens. I remember, uh, after you graduated from Moody. I lived in Queens, then on Long Island. I grew up in Brooklyn.

Wait, you said it wrong. Long island.

Long island? Yeah. I can go back to my accent if I need to.

We'll have some coffee.

Yeah, yeah. So I was living in Long Island, and, uh. So now, uh, we're here. This is the weekend or Saturday of the summit opposing anti-Semitism I am shocked to see in the news reports all the anti-Semitism in New York City.

It happens a lot.

Yeah, yeah. What kind of stuff?

Well, you see protests. It starts from, you know, people want to protest, wants to bring their opinion and make their voice heard. But all of a sudden that comes into a place where they don't just criticize Israel or say something against Israel. You can see glimpses of haters, Jewish people, just all of a sudden it's like sparking a little bit around the city, but then it's encouraging

Shooting in case people haven't heard a shooting of a of a man going to synagogue only because he was going to synagogue. That was the only reason.

Only because he's Jewish. And that's very sad. It's very scary for the Jewish people in America. Now, I think this realization of the growing anti-Semitism is sinking.

You know, what it is is we thought that America is the safest place. It's where we've been the most accepted that Jewish people, you know, that we thought America meant never again when we would say never again after the Holocaust. And now it seems like ever again, ever and ever, always when.

We see this in Israel, this kind of news coming out of stabbings, of protests, of hate. We're shocked that it's happening there. And in a way, many of us feel safer in Israel because we know that we're together as a community and as a nation that will protect us. And many people are scared now to travel and to openly display their Jewishness. And it's appalling that this is happening now in our time and age.

As they should be concerned about traveling. What happened in in Amsterdam well.

Before that was.

That in Amsterdam? Is that where it was?

Yes. It's just like in the last 24 hours. But before that, you know, Rachel said that that people are afraid to travel. I spoke to students in Columbia University and in NYU. They do not put their stars out anymore. They would not wear a necklace with the David star because they're afraid and they understand that. And yes, Amsterdam, there was a soccer game between the Israeli team and the, I think the Amsterdam team or somebody, their Dutch.

Team, I think the.

Dutch team. And then right after that there was pogrom, straight up pogrom. It was very organized. Today we know that because we can see that social media was full of those videos.

Yeah, they.

Brought knives and clubs and assaulted the the Jewish Israelis that were there.

Yes. And the taxi drivers were participating in that. They were sending messages to each other. Hey, I'm picking up those Jewish guys, you know, which is really interesting for me because nobody from them said, we're picking up Israelis. They said, we're picking up Jews.

Yeah, of course.

And that's what that's what we're trying to convey to people. Like it's not about Israel anymore. It's about anti-Semitism towards Jewish people.

Yeah. Now, of course, anti-Semitism, if we think about it biblically breaks God's heart. You know, it says in Isaiah 63, in all their afflictions God says, I was afflicted. He was afflicted. And that breaks God's heart. Psalm 83 says that those who hate the God of Israel express that hatred by hating the people of Israel, the Jewish people. And it's really a reflection of the resentment towards God for having chosen and having a special plan for this people.

And that's why it's so important to have this conference at the Moody Bible Institute. Micah six eight says, what does the Lord require of you, O man? To act justly, to love mercy, and walk humbly before your God? Yeah, we have to act justly in this time of dissonance, of despair and hatred. As Christians, we have a responsibility to stand up and address that and to be people of mercy and walk humbly with God. And how do

So agree with you. Thank you so much for that. We're going to come back and talk about how we can stand up and what we can do. Uh, listening to a whole group of moody people here at the summit and Chosen People Ministries, people as well, at the summit opposing anti-Semitism, our very special pre-recorded program. Stay with us. We're coming right back with more. Some claim Paul is the key person who took the message of the Jewish Messiah.

Well, you know, some of this conversation we've had now has been a bit dark. But I want to remind everyone that even in the midst of this darkness this past year, we've seen such an extraordinary change in people's lives because they've experienced such hardship and such worry and anxiety and depth of concern of what next? How are

The things that two two things that God uses in bringing people to know him to to know the Messiah, Jesus is either transition when people are in a different state, different place, different, they're disconnected and they start seeking God or trauma. And this ten seven was the most traumatic event, I think, in modern Israel in at least since the the Yom Kippur War 50 years ago. Uh, so God is using the traumatic effects of this to cause people to seek him. You think?

Absolutely. Oh, wow. It's it has not ended. It is even more now, over a year later. Wow.

That's amazing. What are you finding in New York about that, Sergei?

I think people are open. People are seeking same thing like in Israel. I think people all of a sudden trying to think like, okay, what do I grasp in hope for the future? It doesn't have to be like specifically in any country. But where do I find hope? In what? And then when we talk to students, we ask them questions that are more like, do you think peace is possible in general, not specifically about Middle East? And we want to see what is the reaction to

It's great.

Huh? It's amazing how hearts can open. Uh, I want to ask Michael a question in a minute, but here's a verse, uh, that I think is crucial when we see this ugly head of anti-Semitism arising again. It says rescue those being taken off to death and save those stumbling towards slaughter. If you say. But we didn't know about this, won't he? Who ways the ways hearts consider it, won't he who protects your life know this is a

I think you said it very well. I think they need to speak up. But I think in order for them to speak up, they have to get educated. I think if the Jewish people are important, if their faith is important, if there's such a big part of God's plan, like we're seeing in revelation and like we're seeing in the whole Bible, then let's take the time to study a little bit to understand why, to understand why they're hated so much, and to understand the truth about what's going in Israel.

Yeah, it's the craziest hate because it's not like Jewish people did something to deserve it. It's because of the enemy who hates whom God loves. I think that that's really important to understand. Uh, so I agree with you. I think I'll tell you one of the sad things for me, I would like pastors to address this, to speak up about it. I would like people who are preachers to know to educate their churches about the Jewish people.

Do I think Doctor Dolnick, our church, uh, the faith family of God, uh, we can't sit on the sidelines anymore. And so a very practical thing that we need to do is that we need to lift our voices up, like Michael said. And how can we do that? By contacting governmental officials, our congressmen and women, and letting them know that what is occurring in our country, in our world, should not and cannot be tolerated, and that we as America, firmly behind the State of Israel, firmly behind and.

Concerned for the Jewish people right here in the United States. I mean, I I'm shocked when I hear these events, and it's almost like sometimes politicians don't even want to

Responsibility. Don't forget that responsibility. Brothers and sisters in Christ.

Yeah, we have to do that. And, you know, I'm sorry if you missed the summit this time, but, uh, I'm sure you'll be able to hear some of the things that happened in upcoming weeks. So some of the things that were said and some of the things that were done, uh, it's it's a I'm grateful that we have had the summit and that you guys are here to join and participate today as we pre-recorded this special Open Line edition for the summit opposing anti-Semitism. That's the