Hello, friends. Welcome to Open Line with Doctor Michael Clinic. My name is Michael Redlick. I'm the academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for joining me at the kitchen table for our Bible study across America. You know, normally you talk with me and ask your questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. But today's program is prerecorded, so please, please don't call today. You can learn more about Open Line.
You can hear past programs and connect to our social media pages and find all sorts of stuff you're looking for, as well as post your question about the Bible at our website. Online radio.org. That's open line radio. Org. It's time to get yourself a cup of coffee and grab your Bible for a very special open line. In 2023, open line went on the road to Eden Prairie, Minnesota, a suburb of Minneapolis, as part of a Chosen People Ministries conference called Finding Shalom Peace in a Troubled World.
We broadcast live from that conference. We took questions from the audience and talked with a few friends about Jewish ministry. Before we get back to those questions. I want to let you know about our current resource. Do you ever feel overwhelmed trying to understand how all the books of the New Testament fit together? Well, that's why we want to send you a copy of survey of the New Testament by Paul Benware. It's a comprehensive guide that will
take us on a journey from Matthew to Revelation. It will help us grasp the grand narrative of God's Word. We'll discover how each book connects to tell one magnificent story of God's redemptive plan. And you can get a copy of survey of the New Testament when you give a gift of any size to open line. Just visit our website openlibrary.org or call 447122 before we head back to Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. I want to remind you that we air this program in May of 2023,
five months before Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th. My friend Robin will be talking about the ministry she does in Israel, and she still ministers among Israelis, and it's been going on since then. What she tells me now is that people are more spiritually open than ever before. I met Robin when she was a college student, and I was leading a congregation in New York, and I began by asking Robin where she lives and what she does. So, Robin, where do you live and and what do you do?
I live in Tel Aviv, Israel, and I am the branch leader for an amazing staff team of Chosen People ministries in Israel.
Yeah. Yeah. And how did we meet?
Um, we met because my mother, who was not a believer, called you and said, my daughter is in so much trouble. I'd like you to come and talk to her about Jesus.
So Robin was a college student in Boston, came home for Thanksgiving, and I went to see her on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. I just her mom had been attending our congregation but had not yet made, and I think we're still waiting for her to make a decision.
A couple of years she did.
Oh, she did. I didn't realize. Oh that's great. So, anyway, her mom, uh, asked me to come talk with Robin, and afterwards I went home after. I guess it was about two hours.
We talked for probably a while.
Yeah, it was a good while. I said, I have never I said to my wife, I have never met a more hostile young person ever in my whole life. She was the most hostile person I've ever engaged about faith and about the good news of Yeshua. And of course, what happened.
A member of your congregation, Tony. She was a good friend of my mother's in high school, and they had reconnected. That's how my mother came in contact with you. She would come over just about every day, and she would either say to me, the Bible says, or Michael says, but whatever Michael said was in the Bible, too. Yeah.
And so she talked with you. You were you were home for a while.
I was home because I was sick. I had become very sick when I was in school, and I had to move home. And every day she would tell me, come to church, we'll pray for you and God will heal you. But also I want to talk to you about the Messiah.
How long did it take for for her to get through to you?
I think it was about 9 or 10 months of her almost every day coming over. She'd share a prophecy. I wouldn't let her share New Testament. She'd share a prophecy of the Messiah. I would get hostile with her, and she would just laugh and say, okay, you've had enough for today. Bye bye. I'll see you tomorrow.
Yeah, that does sound exactly like Tony. Yeah. So. Okay, so I know what happened to me is, I think the first time I was leading a Passover seder and Tony brought you. Yeah. And and I looked and I thought, is that the same girl? And she had never told me that she was going to see you or anything like that. And you had become a follower of Yeshua?
Yeah. That was a funny Seder, because you kept interrupting yourself every 10 or 15 minutes and saying, no, everyone, you don't understand. She can become a believer. Anyone can become a believer.
Yeah, that was pretty cool. So okay, so tell me about what you're doing in Israel. What kind of outreach are you doing to reach Jewish people?
Well, we are in Israel. The way we reach Jewish people is so diverse. Um, but we're working a lot through ministry centers that are like community centers with a faith base. So we're able to create a create a space that believers can come and be discipled, but they can also at music events or cultural events, invite their non-believing friends, and it creates a really safe bridge to openly dialogue about faith and who the Messiah is.
I think that that's one of the best ways. Safe place a cup of coffee. It's a great place to talk, but how do you meet Jewish people when you're not in Israel? Do you go other places?
Oh, yes. So all Israelis serve in the army, and then it's tradition to go travel the world. And they don't just go anywhere, but they generally go on specific waves. They follow a path. So I can tell you where to find 10,000 Israelis, a place in India eating hummus instead of tikka masala. And we go, we bring teams and we backpack alongside them, building relationships, breaking bread together,
sharing the gospel. But we also chosen people ministries, has hostels in some strategic places that the that the Israelis love to go and it's free for three days to show God's love in a practical way.
And then you have young people come with you and join these, uh, treks that you take with them and meet, meet Israelis, write.
Many of your students.
And.
Even your own son.
Yeah, yeah. Who was a student of mine? He had just graduated from Moody at the time. But also we have students that leave Moody Bible Institute for their, uh, Jewish ministry internship, and they go off. I trust Robin with them. I don't know why, but I do. Uh, and they they go off to places like New Zealand and, uh, to South America and to India and all sorts of places where Jewish, uh, Israelis, young Israelis, after the army,
they're off trekking to find meaning, to find significance. And we hope to find Yeshua.
And three of your students this summer are coming to our team in Israel to serve alongside all our staff stuff there.
Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh. Students will say to me, is this a good internship? Well, Robin's a problem, but.
You should go.
No, I tell them all. Robin is an honorary moody grad, is what it is. She really is not a moody grad, but she has come so often for our fall missions conference, which is becoming a winter missions conference next year. Uh, but she has come so many times to our missions conference, uh, and comes when she's in Chicago and meets with our students and encourages them that last year, at the 100th anniversary celebration for Jewish Studies, we made you an honorary
graduate of Moody. So there we go. Now, now we have.
I love that.
Now we have to get you that honorary doctorate.
So.
We can call you Doctor Robin. So there we go. Uh, I don't know if that'll happen, but we'll try. So anyway, I am I'm really grateful for the ministry that Robin has with Chosen People Ministries. We're going to take a couple of questions here, but thank you, Robin.
Hi, my name is Mike. I'm from Austin, Minnesota. And I'd appreciate getting your perspective on the relationship between Israel and the church.
Ah, well, uh. God, uh, founded the beginning. The beginnings of Israel is the call of Abraham. Isaac. Jacob. Right. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, then Israel, of course, continues to exist. However, it's fairly clear that by the first century, the church did not yet exist because the Lord Jesus, when after Peter gives his great confession, the Lord Jesus responds in Matthew 16, I will build my church. Which means that the church is not there yet hadn't been built. Uh, another aspect is,
of course, when does the church begin? It seems to begin at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit falls and everyone's speaking those other languages. Do you Do you remember that story in acts two? And what I think is really kind of interesting about that is later on, Peter has to go preach to Cornelius, and when he speaks to Cornelius, Cornelius, uh, while he's speaking, the Holy Spirit falls on Cornelius. And
those listening, they all believe. And then Peter, you know, decides, well, I guess we don't have to convert them to Judaism before they believe in Jesus. Everything's good, but he has to go and report this, uh, to the leadership. And he tells the story of what happened in acts 11. And he says, as I began to speak, this is 1115. Uh, acts 1115. As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came down on them, just as on us at the beginning. Yeah, the beginning of what? The beginning of the church. So, uh,
there's Israel. There's the church. Israel are the Are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The church is anyone, Jew or Gentile, who have put their faith in Jesus and the place where, uh, they overlap. Uh, if you can see two circles overlapping each other. Uh, one circle would be Israel. The other circle would be the church.
But where they the I guess you would call that a concentric, uh, where they reach over the Jewish, where Israel reaches over into the church as the Jewish believer, and at the same time, the Jewish believer is the faithful remnant of Israel. So that's, that's the, the, the overlap of it. But there is a distinct plan that God has for the church. I believe will be complete when the Lord Jesus raptures the church. Then there's a seven year, uh, plan that God has to bring Israel
to repentance, and then Israel will come to faith. And God has a is a special plan for Israel when he returns and establishes the kingdom over them and the world.
That's great.
Thank you. Mhm. We're going to take a break here when we come back. Uh, we're going to have time for more questions. This is open line with Michael. My guest. This segment was Robin from Israel. So glad that you're here Robin. And we're going to come right back with more of your questions in just a moment. You're listening to the Finding Shalom conference on Open Line right here in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. Stay right there. We're coming back.
Welcome back to Open Line with me, Michael Ray Melnick. Today's program is prerecorded. So remember don't call. We're listening to a rebroadcast of a special on the road edition of Open Line from 2023. We were part of a Chosen People Ministries conference called Finding Shalom Peace in the Troubled World and it was held at Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, Minnesota, in front of a live audience. And they asked the questions.
Hello, I'm Gwen. I'm originally from Richfield Springs, New York. Oh, really? A recent transplant to Aberdeen, South Dakota. Wow. With my husband and three teens.
New York to South Dakota. That's a that's a cultural change.
Yeah, yeah. A bit. So this is my question. Um, in first Corinthians five seven through eight, it says, for indeed Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the feast not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened
bread of sincerity and truth. So my question is, as a Gentile believer, and having only been celebrating the feast of the Lord with my husband and children for the past eight years, I wonder how this verse is overlooked and why the church in general treats those who do observe the feasts as oddities in the church.
Well. I think that there's a very long tradition of anything Jewish having a negative perspective in the church. Uh, we're not we're not talking something recent. We're talking thousands, 2000 years now, very early on. By the time you get to the second century, you can see there's a hostility, a growing hostility to anything, any Jewish practice, anything that has Jewish roots in the church. Uh, by the time you you get to the fourth century, the resurrection day
was changed in terms of what day? Resurrection. Previously, the church always celebrated the resurrection as part of Passover. In fact, the old word for Easter is Pascha. In Italy, in places like that pass over Constantine the Great when he called the Nicene Council the Council of Nicaea. He was there, and he called for the change of celebration of Passover to of of the of resurrection from Passover to a
more of a pagan date. And he did that to, uh, remove the church from the odious company of the Jews is what the the documents say. So there was a growing antisemitism in the church and a disregard for the older brother, uh, disdain for the Jewish roots of the faith. Uh, people misunderstood that, uh, there was, you know what? What in the New Testament, there's this issue. Should Gentiles be converted to Converted to Judaism and circumcised before they could
believe in Jesus. Obviously, that wasn't right. Uh, but really, the great proponents of that were more of the Gentiles who ultimately it was Gentiles who went ahead and did that, and they then pushed that. So you would think that it would have been a recognized thing, that it was not Jewish believers pushing that idea because Paul, James, they were the ones that said, no, you don't have to. Uh, but it was Gentiles who had gone through with that
circumcision that were the great advocates. That's why in the book of revelation, it calls these gentiles, uh, who say they are Jews, but they are not. So, uh, and they're not because they're, they're Gentiles who have adopted this. Uh, so the point is, I think there's a long history of that. Uh, one of the things I will tell you is that there is a growing appreciation for the Jewish People. And for festivals like Passover. I can't tell
you how many churches I've gone to. To explain the Passover, I think that the feast that Paul is talking about may not necessarily be Passover. He may be talking about the Lord's Supper here in. And more broadly speaking, about our walk with the Lord. The celebrate the feast. And we get rid of the the leaven of malice and wickedness. But it could be just the the Lord's Supper celebration that he was talking about there in Corinth, because they
were abusing it. We know that from first Corinthians 11. Uh, and he tells them that they have to, uh, really present themselves to the Lord first and take the Lord's Supper worthily. So that may be what he's talking about. But it does seem to me that it's really important that we recognize that the Lord's Supper communion draws right out of Passover. Um, so I agree with you that there's some pushback because there are other people trying to say, hey,
you need to do this. And of course, that gets everyone. No one's saying you need to do it. But if you find keeping Passover, uh, and enjoyable and meaningful and, uh, significant aspect of your walk, as long as you're not imposing it on others. Have at it. Enjoy. Okay.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
Okay.
Good morning. My name is Sheila. I'm from Bismarck, North Dakota, and I have a question in regards to our conversations with those who are Holocaust survivors. Um, what can you say to a Holocaust survivor to show them that those who persecuted them weren't after the heart of Yeshua?
They weren't following what the Lord would want them to do. Yeah. Well, let me just say there's a lot in that question. Uh, my dad and mom are both Holocaust survivors. Wow. My dad thought that every SS guard that he knew in concentration camp, every German that he met was, you know, after the war, uh, was a Christian. And so he equated Nazism and murder. They actually the Nazis actually murdered his first wife, five children, his parents, his siblings, uh, his grandparents.
Horrific.
Uh, and that was done in his mind by followers of Jesus.
Mhm.
Uh, so it's very hard to break that view. And rightly so, because, uh, the Nazis, who were certainly not Christian.
Right.
Uh, they were not reflecting the heart of Yeshua at all. Uh, but they used the history of German anti-Semitism in the church, going back to Martin Luther and even earlier, the whole history of, of of Christian anti-Semitism. And they preyed upon that and basically said, look, we're just agreeing with what the church has always said. And so in this way, though, they I think they would have gone after the church
ultimately had they not failed. If you look at Alfred Rosenberg, who was the chief theoretician, theoretician of Nazism, it was anti-Christian. It was Anti-church. They wanted to remake the church, take the Bible out, put the put Mein Kampf in, take out the hymns, put in Nazi songs. Uh, they wanted to celebrate their new savior, Adolf Hitler. And that's what they wanted the church to do. It was going to be terrible. They were going to destroy the church, which
is why Bonhoeffer, Niemöller and others stood against Nazism. However, uh, they they preyed upon the history of Christian anti-Semitism, used it as a means of gathering in Christians to participate in and support what the Nazis were doing. Uh, so how do you deal with that? I think what you have to do is expose people to the true Yeshua, not the image of Yeshua from. And it's hard to do but expose them to the true Yeshua as in
the Gospels. I remember many years ago I was talking with a Jewish woman in a nursing home and she was no, no, no, she wasn't a survivor, but she was really hostile because of the history. And I, I read to her the very first verse of the New Testament in Yiddish, in the language, her first language. And I got out my Yiddish New Testament and I read her this, uh, verse where it says, this is the generations of Jesus, the Messiah, Yeshua the Messiah, the Son
of David, the Son of Abraham. And, uh, she looked at me and she said, you mean he's Jewish? And that's when I got to talk with her. He's not the image that you have heard about. This is the true Yeshua, uh, the king of Israel, uh, who loves his people. And that's the thing I would do, is I would get them if I could try and point them back to the true Yeshua in the New Testament. Okay.
Thank you very much.
Mhm.
My name is Nancy from Bonita Springs, Florida. In John 20, verse seven. What is the significance of the napkin that was wrapped together in a place by itself?
Okay. You've heard about this, huh? On the internet or someplace? Sermons. Have you.
Heard? Once.
Once.
And I want to hear it from you.
Okay.
Well, what's been flying around the internet for a number of years Is this idea that it says that in in Jewish culture, if you fold your napkin and you're eating, you fold a napkin, and then it means you're done eating. But if you don't fold it, if it's all messed up, I'm sorry. When you fold it, you're done and you're coming back. Uh, and so that was the significance of the folded napkin. That is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard. Because we're not talking about
a meal here. It's a face cloth for a dead body. It's not the King James uses the word napkin. My version, which is a modern version, says the wrapping that had been on his head was not lying with the linen cloths, but folded up in a separate place. It has nothing to do with food. There is no Jewish cultural background as such, that says that the folded napkin means that you want more or don't want more, or that you're coming back or whatever it is that they said it is. No, no, no, no.
It is unrelated. And unfortunately, the internet can promote good things, but it also promotes lots of stupid ideas. And the thing is, don't trust it. Check it out. Uh, the significance of that linen napkin is that there were no grave robbers. Grave robbers? Robbers. If you go in and someone has stolen the body, you're not going to find the face cloth folded up neatly. Right?
Right.
You'll find everything jumbled aside. I had my house broken in two, uh, a few years ago when I was in Israel. I came in, the drawers were open, clothing was all out on the floors. It was. It's all jumbled up because they're looking right. If you have a grave robber. Come in. What are they doing? They're pulling everything. They're taking the body out. Uh, it wouldn't be folded up, so it's saying something different happened. This wasn't grave robbers.
And then, of course, they see the Lord Jesus. They know he's resurrected.
So great. Thank you so.
Much.
That's the significance. So, everyone, just let me just assure you there's a lot of junk on the internet. And I have to say, I'm not going to give you other examples of it, but unfortunately, sometimes people will let that get into their Bible studies or sermons, and then it gets into a, you know, to the people. So just let's be cautious when we use alleged Jewish backgrounds.
I always say, where did you get that background? Sometimes they'll even I heard one preacher use a background about Jewish people, uh, giving their kids candy or sweets as they learned the alphabet, the Hebrew alphabet, as they learned how to read. Because you're supposed to learn that learning the Torah is sweet. Yeah, that's a great Jewish background from the 17th century. Has nothing to do with the New Testament or how Yeshua was raised. We're going to
come back with more of your excellent questions. Stay right there. You're listening to Open Line with Michael Ellman. We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with Doctor Michael Ray Melnick, bringing the Febc mailbag every week. Learn how Far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until all I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives changed by Messiah all across the globe. Again, you can hear
the podcast when you visit febc. That's febc. Welcome back to Open Line. My name is Michael Melnick. Today's program is prerecorded, so don't call us today, but you can learn more about us by going to our website. Openlibrary.org has all the links you're looking for right there. But sit back now and enjoy a program that we did in front of a live audience in May of 2023. We traveled to Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. That's a suburb of Minneapolis, and we were part of a
Chosen People Ministries conference. Now, Wooddale church has a long and rich history of partnering with lots of Jewish ministry, of having a really deep concern for reaching Jewish people with the good news. And they happen to partner with Chosen People Ministries to put on this conference. And I'm really grateful for partnerships like this. I recognize that they are vital to open line and we to have partners.
We have kitchen table partners, people who commit to give monthly so I can be on the air weekly, answering, answering people's questions about the Bible, about God, and about the spiritual life. I'm so grateful for everyone that listens and everyone that gives a gift occasionally. But I'm especially grateful for Kitchen table partners because they're the ones that really help us the most. And one way I say thank you is every other week, I send an audio
Bible study to people who become kitchen table partners. It's just a few minutes and you get it in your email. You click on it and get to listen. If you'd like to become a kitchen table partner, just call 888647122. That's (888) 644-7122. Or you can just go online to Open Line Radio and whatever you do. We're really grateful for all that you do. Whenever we broadcast from a church, I like to talk with the pastor who partners with us. The senior pastor of Wooddale Church at that time was
pastor Dale Hummel, who has since retired. And I talked with him about his church ministry. And then I asked him about the reason for this partnership. I just have to ask you, why would you host a conference with Chosen People Ministries? I mean, what is it that I mean, that's not typical for most churches.
Yeah.
Part, you know, part of it's kind of a personal for me, Michael. My my dad, who I just actually buried. April 10th. He passed away.
Oh. I'm sorry.
Um, and he grew up in the Netherlands. And he. During the war, he was a boy, and, uh, his family hid Jews. Mhm. Um, and my dad has clear memory of being taken outside by the Nazis. He, his mom and dad, and then his four siblings and being lined up while they searched the home. Fortunately, in the two times that that happened, there were no Jews being hidden in the home. And so dad would tell me that story over and over again, especially as he got older, uh,
kind of remembering those things. And that always resonated with my heart and, you know, wondering why that happened. Um, he had, uh, two uncles. There were brothers. And, uh, one of them, uh, was killed by the SS. He was an underground spy, and he was very close to my dad. My dad was close to him. And, uh, that was a painful memory for my dad. What's interesting is that the same man, his brother, uh, went the opposite direction and, uh, went in with the Nazis.
Wow.
And, uh, so I always thought that would be a great historical novel. How? You have two brothers, you know, one who works on the resistance and the other, uh, you know, was pro-Nazi. And, um, so that resonated a lot with me. And then when I went to seminary, actually, I had a professor who wrote a book called Legacy of Hatred by Christian David Rouse. Yes. David Rouse.
Why Christians need published by Moody. Yep.
Why Christians need to remember the Holocaust. And that book, uh, deeply affected me. And I thought to myself, you know, given my history for my family and what I learned in that course, uh, it's something we have to keep in front of us. And, um, you know, I look at the Jewish people and I think, you know, they brought us the Messiah. God used them to bring the Messiah. They preserved the word of God. And, um, they're like family, right?
And so what can I do, uh, to minister back and to encourage and to bring the hope of the gospel to them. So, um, and some people have just been a great avenue for us to begin to partner with and, and make sure that that is a balance for our ministry.
You know, that's the history of this church, at least in my experience. I when I became a professor at Moody back in the Dark ages, uh, actually, it wasn't that long ago. It was Lincoln was president then. But anyway, when I became a actually when I became a A professor. Leith Anderson was the pastor here, and he contacted me about maybe if I could recommend someone that had some experience in Jewish ministry and knowledge because the church was
hoping to actually maybe put someone on staff. And so, yeah, I just I thought that was a remarkable thing for a church. That was a rare experience that I have had, that a church would even consider using a staff position.
Yeah. To reach you has always been very kingdom oriented. And, um, you know, sometimes those, those dreams get laid out and then later on they come to fruition. And so I feel like that's beginning to happen now for us.
That's wonderful. I'm really, really, really grateful for it. Now, what kind of community is it? Are there many Jewish people here in Eden Prairie?
Uh, not a lot more in Saint Louis Park, but within our congregation we have we have several folks, um, who have come to faith, you know, in times past and have kind of, I think, surfaced the whole conviction of, okay, what are we going to do for the Jewish community around us and I, I met I remember a couple of years ago, I went to Mayo for a physical, and my physician happened to be a Jewish doctor, and we got into quite an interesting conversation as he wanted
to know why I was a pastor and what I actually believed, and I wasn't sure it was going really well, except at the very end he walked into the waiting room and he said, could you come back here for a moment? So I went back there. He took me into his office and and he just began to share his heart about his family and his ministry. And what opened the door was really me telling him the story
of my dad. What happened in Holland. But then. But then hearing from me that, you know, I wanted to learn as much from him as to share with him. And so that that began kind of a unique conversation.
That's so great, by the way, all evangelism. The very first step is not learning what to say, right, but how to listen. Yeah, yeah, I think that's so, so valuable. Uh, that's that's just fantastic. I truly, truly appreciate your heart for Jewish people. Thanks. I have some interesting, uh, what's interesting to me about Holland. Yeah. Uh, or the Netherlands. The most, uh, in western and Central Europe. The most Jewish people who perished in the Holocaust were from Holland.
Oh, wow.
Uh, the highest percentage of the Jewish community of any country were from Holland. And I think, unfortunately, that happened sadly, horribly. But most believers think that all the Dutch were looking to protect Jewish people. Right. Uh, because of the story of Corrie ten boom.
Right. But not.
The case. Your. Your dad's family? Yeah. Uh, they they were unique.
Yeah.
Uh, they they were not normative. Right. And most of the Dutch did not, uh, act like Corrie Ten boom or your family. And and so I'm especially grateful, you know, to stand against the tide. Right. It's such a special trait. I think it's a great reminder about when when it comes to doing what is right, no matter how the culture is going, no matter how much pressure there is standing.
Protecting the innocent, caring for those who are being oppressed, that that's just a tremendous heritage you have.
Yeah. Thanks.
Yeah, I think it's it's it's even more remarkable when we realize everyone in Holland was not doing that. Right.
That's. Yeah. And that's a really good point you brought out. Yeah.
It's a really exceptional family. That's great. And I'm sorry about the. Was it your uncle? Great uncle that, uh, that joined with the Nazis. Is that was.
Yeah. You know, he ended up, um, afterwards. It's interesting story. He ended up, um, because because it was just the two boys and one had been killed by the SS. Um, instead of hanging him, they gave him a prison term. And what's really interesting, Michael, is, is that years later, he was released from prison and he had repented for what he had he had done, and he spent the rest of his life taking care of a paraplegic. Wow. And he saw that as kind of his, uh, way
of giving something back for what he had done. So there was some restitution at the end. Yeah.
That's great that he repented. I think that's amazing. Yeah. Uh, my mom, uh, who survived the Holocaust, people would say to her, uh, how is it that you don't she was not bitter. Right. And, uh, she became a follower of Yeshua, and she forgave. People would say to, how did you forgive? And she'd say, they're never going to have to stand before me.
Yeah.
And it's.
True.
She she recognized they needed their repentance. Had to come before God. Yeah. And so, anyway, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you for sponsoring this conference.
Yeah. We love chosen people. And, uh.
And you love Moody Radio.
Absolutely. I hope more churches will get involved.
Great. Thank you. We're going to take a break here. Thank you so much, pastor Dale.
That's Dale Hummel from Wooddale Church in Eden Prairie, right outside of Side of Minneapolis. That's it. We're going to come right back with more of your questions in just a moment. You're listening to Open Line. Don't go away. If you've always wanted to see Israel but haven't been able to travel there, or maybe you were there and you'd like to remember better. Chosen People Ministries is offering a book, Israel, the land and the people. It's filled
with some of the best photos of Israel anywhere. It's a coffee table sized book and it presents the beauty, history, culture and variety of the land, from snow capped Mount Hermon to Masada, from ancient Jerusalem to modern Tel Aviv, and much more. If you'd like a copy, just go to our website Openline radio.org. Scroll down and click on the link that says A Free gift from Chosen People Ministries, and you'll receive your copy of Israel, the land and
the people. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Michael Ray. Our phone lines are not open today. This is a rebroadcast today, so don't call. Appreciate you listening, but don't call today. You can relisten to this program and others. Just go to our website openlibrary.org. That's openlibrary.org. And there's all sorts of resources there. And you can ask your Bible questions at that website by clicking on Ask Michael a question. I hope you're enjoying this program. It first
aired in 2023 with a live audience. The people there were at a Chosen People Ministries conference called Finding Shalom Peace in a Troubled World in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. Let's go back to that conference.
Hi, I'm Mary Jane from Austin, Minnesota.
Would you? Oh, I love that. Austin, Minnesota.
Yeah. Um, well, will you talk about replacement theology and just how far back in history does that ideology or doctrine go?
Okay. The very first person to articulate, uh, replacement theology, that God has rejected the Jewish people because of their rejection of Jesus and replaced Israel with the church, was Justin Martyr, early second century. However, there seemed to be an incipient replacement theology that in Rome that Paul is dealing with people who say, well, where can you find replacement theology in the New Testament? You can find it in Romans nine through 11, because Paul is rebuking it. Right.
And the key verse to understand that is Romans 1128 and 29. Nine. And that, uh, passage, uh, Paul says this. You hear the pages turning, uh, it says I'm looking at acts. No wonder why I can't find it. I got to learn these books of the Bible. Uh. Okay. Romans 1128 and 29. What Paul says about the Jewish people is that they are enemies of the gospel, not enemies of God, but enemies of the good news. They're opposed to the good news. And so he's obviously talking
about Jewish people who don't believe regarding the gospel. They are enemies, but it's for your advantage. It's for the advantage of Gentiles. That's why the gospel has gone out to the Gentiles. But then he says regarding election, that means chosenness regarding election, they are loved because of the patriarchs. God made promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. His love is unconditional. He will always love the Jewish people. He
doesn't say he'll love them again. No, they are loved even in their status as being people who don't believe. Since God's gracious gifts are and calling are irrevocable, all the gifts that are described in Romans nine four are still. Still belong to the Jewish people. Never been replaced. So there you go.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Laurie and I live in Minnetonka, Minnesota, and I just want to welcome you here. Thank you for coming. Um, my original question had to do with a Jewish neighbor that was reaching out to me, and we've started to dialogue, but I think you've already addressed my question there. So, if I may, I'm going to pose a question about the remnant. Um, will that be a part of the will Jews and Gentiles be a part of the remnant? And does that does that have any tie in to the predestination?
Okay. Well, the remnant today is As Jewish people who believe in Jesus. If you look at Romans 11 one through five, uh, he says, as God rejected his people whom he foreknew. Absolutely not. May it never be. No no no no no. And then he says, look, God is always the proof that God has not rejected the Jewish people is he has preserved a remnant. He says, look, God has always worked through a remnant. There was a remnant in the days of Elijah who were faithful, 7000
who did not bow the knee to Baal. Uh, and he says in verse five, in the same way, then there is also, at the present time right now, a remnant chosen by grace. And so there is a remnant of Jewish people today who believe in Jesus. And that's the proof that we're sort of like the down payment. And one day later on in the chapter, he talks about the day when the rest of the nation will believe all Israel will be saved, and not all Israel of all of all time, but all those alive who
trust in the Lord at his return. So the remnant, I believe when we talk about the remnant, it's the remnant of Jewish people who are the faithful remnant of Israel. That's in the end, believe.
Thank you. And does that have any tie in to predestination?
Well, obviously they're chosen by grace.
Chosen.
The election.
Mhm.
So twice chosen. Chosen as the Jewish people and then chosen by grace to believe. I think that's that's really clear. Uh, people say, well, how can God choose who's going to believe and still call on people to be responsible to believe? That's that's above my pay grade. God alone knows the answer to that question. I believe that mystery is true, but it's a mystery I don't. And you know what? Any theologian that can explain it, they're a lot smarter than I am, so I trust them.
So thank you.
Mhm.
Hi I'm Carl Johnson from Saint Louis Park, Minnesota. And this is a little bit different kind of question. But with this being the 75th anniversary of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. What impact would you say as a Bible scholar, the scrolls have had on our understanding of the scriptures and also Second Temple Judaism?
I think one of the things that the Dead Sea Scrolls has done is confirmed for Second Temple Judaism, that it was, uh, it was not uniform, it was, uh, it was Judaism's, uh, that it was that there were different kinds of Judaism we know. Sadducean Pharisaic, uh, there was monastic Judaism out in the wilderness, the Qumran community as seen Judaism, uh, and they all had their favorite version of the Bible, of which, uh, the Dead Sea
Scrolls reflect all the different versions. We have different copies, different versions reflected or families of texts, but the main text is what we call the proto-masoretic, or what later becomes the The Masoretic Text. So what? The first thing that it has done for us, it has helped us
with textual criticism. We can look at the variant readings and see how how the texts developed and the different families, and decide which was the best earliest texts of the Hebrew Bible, so that we it helps with like for example, in Isaiah 53 where it says, he shall see and be glad in, I think verse 12, uh, in the Dead Sea Scroll, it says, he shall see the light of life and be glad. And so it has an implication for the resurrection. And I think most versions will
take that as the original text on the second, uh, score. Uh, it has shown we have the full scroll of Isaiah from the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's 99.9% the same as the next earliest text that we have 1200 years later. So it's confirmed the accuracy of the transmission of the of the text.
Great. Thank you.
Okay. One minute. Go ahead.
Hi.
My name is Sam Samuel from Ramsey, Minnesota. My question is a short one. Uh, the, uh, revelation 14.
Mhm.
The 144,000 that were redeemed from the earth. Who are they?
Uh, your neighbors, I don't know. Uh, uh, that's referring in revelation seven. It says that there are 12,000 from each tribe, uh, making 144,000 servants who are sealed and protected by God. Uh, and so there are 144,000 Jewish people in the tribulation. God knows their tribes, I don't. Uh, and he he preserves them. It doesn't say how they serve God in Revelation seven. It just doesn't say it. However, in the next paragraph, it talks about men from every tribe,
people from every tribe and tongue and nation worshipping. So the implication by context is what they are doing is they are proclaiming the gospel in the tribulation so that many, many people will believe and God's going to use 144,000 Jewish Billy Graham's to proclaim the gospel in the tribulation period. That's something that's good, don't you think? Thanks for your question. And that's the program for the week. We're done. Thank you so much for all your questions right here. Appreciate that.
Thanks to Wooddale church. Chosen People Ministries for hosting this live audience. Grateful for today's Openline team. Tricia McMillan, Joel Swan, Courtney Young, all their expertise made this happen. Remember, keep in touch with Open Line during the week by going to our website Openline radio. Org. That page is everything you're looking for. Keep reading the Bible. We'll talk about
it next week. Open line with Doctor Michael Riedel is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.