Have you noticed? Our culture seems to be collapsing around us. Our leaders, our church leaders are struggling. What would the Lord have us be during this time of struggle and strife? Well, stay with me. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends. Welcome to Open Line with Doctor Michael Wright. This is Moody Radio's Bible study across America. My name is Michael Riedel. I'm professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
Also happened to be the academic dean there. And here we are sitting around the radio kitchen table with our Bibles open, our coffee cups steaming. You can call right now with your questions about the Bible, God, or the spiritual life. If you have a question and you'd like to call, now's the time to do it. Here's the phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me give you that again. (877) 548-3675. And I have to remind people I always hear from from listeners. They say it's hard to get through. I
try to get through. Well, I would love for you to get through. Best time to get through is to call right now at the beginning of the hour. (877) 548-3675. Tricia McMillan is producing today and Tara is helping out. Glad you're here today, Tara. Chris Segard is handling all things technical. He's engineering and tiara, not tiara. Tiara is answering the phones. We got so many names that are similar. I've got to really watch myself here and not get
everyone confused. Anyway, I'm really glad to be together with them. And again, the phone number 775483675. Go get yourself a cup of coffee right now if you don't have it yet. Open your Bible. We're about to study the scriptures together. Well, school starts this week at Moody Bible Institute. This is my 31st opening season here at Moody. I started actually in January. And so, uh, this is my 31st year of welcoming students in August. I'm looking forward to seeing them.
The campus is starting to just explode with new students, and I was thinking about why it is that we have Moody Bible Institute. Uh, D.L. Moody actually said that his vision was to create Gap men. Today we would say gap men and women because he included women in that concept. Gap men and women. Well, what's that about? Well, here's what what D.L. Moody actually Said, I tell you what I want and what I have on my heart.
I believe we have got to have gap men and women to stand between the laity and the ministers, men who are trained to do ministry work. Take men that have the gifts and train them for the work of reaching the people. That's what he was. That's how he
imagined gap. Men and women, people who were not necessarily clergy, but they were people who would stand in the gap between the world and the needs of the world and provide that do the ministry work, which is really a very biblical vision that all believers, all followers of Jesus, should be doing the work of ministry. Uh, I think that that he said this in January of 1863, but then 23 years later, the Moody Bible Institute was founded. Where did he get the idea of gap men and women? Well,
it actually comes from the Book of Ezekiel. And in the book of Ezekiel, chapter 22, verses 23 to 32, it talks about the problem that Israel was facing before the first exile. And the problem was that the priests were worshiping with impurity. It says they made no distinction between the holy and the common. Secondly, the princes, the leaders of the country, were leading with dishonesty. Verse 27 of Ezekiel 22 says, they were leading to destroy lives
in order to make a profit. And then the prophets. Verse 28 talks about them, and it says of the prophets, they, uh, lied. They saw false visions and lying divinations. They say this is what the Lord says when the Lord had not yet spoken. So the leadership of Israel, the prophets, the priests and the princes were all corrupt in what they
were supposed to be doing. And then in verse 30, this is what the Lord says, I searched for a man among them who would repair the wall and stand in the gap before me on behalf of the land, so that I might not destroy it. But I found no one. God was looking for gap men and women. Not necessarily D.L. Moody, God himself. And that's where D.L. Moody got the idea. And what does it take to
be a gap man or woman? Well, this is this is just absolutely crucial, I think, when we say this is what the problem is with the leaders, it would be the opposite of what God is looking for, for people to stand in the gap. So, for example, in contrast to the priests. God is looking for gap men and women who will worship with holiness. Verse 26 says this, that they make no distinction between the holy and the common, and they do not explain the difference between the clean
and the unclean. And so what they were doing is they were worshiping with impurity. We need to worship God. If we're going to be gap men and women. We need to worship God with purity. Our lives need to reflect the commands and obedience to His Word. We need to look, walk in fellowship with the Lord our life. Our worship should be consistent. Our life should be consistent with our worship. So we need to worship with purity. Secondly, if we're going to be gap men and women, we
have to lead with integrity. In verse 27, the problem with the princes, the officials within the city is that they were like wolves tearing their prey, shedding blood, destroying lives in order to make a profit. Well, that's not leading with integrity. We need to lead people with integrity. We need to lead for the good of the people rather than for the good of ourselves. And you say, well, I'm not a leader. Everyone's a leader. There's someone that we are leading. It might be just our family. It
might be leading in our community. It might be leading in some way. In every case, if we're going to be leaders, what we need to do is lead with the good of the people in mind that we are leading rather than our own advantage. And then the third aspect of being a gap person is unlike those prophets who spoke falsehood. What we need to do is proclaim proclaim God's Word truthfully and faithfully. We need to be
people who communicate the truth of God. It says her prophets plaster whitewash for them by seeing false visions and lying divinations. And they say, this is what the Lord has said when the Lord has not spoken. They were making up their own stories and saying it was God. Well, no gap men and women, what will we do? We'll take the Word of God, the truth of the Word of God, and say, thus says the Lord, this is what God has spoken, and we'll apply it faithfully in
our own day and our own culture. But we will be people who apply the Word of God and teach it truthfully. That's what a gap person is. A gap person worships with holiness, leads with integrity, and teaches God's Word faithfully. Well, you say, well, that's for your school. What are you talking about here? I'm a moody radio listener. Well, Moody's vision of gap men and women is not just fulfilled through a school, it's fulfilled through a radio network.
And if you're listening on the radio now. We would like to see every one of our listeners be a gap man or woman who will fill the gap and provide holiness in their worship, provide integrity in their leadership, and faithfully teach God's Word. Are you ready to become a gap man or woman? Well, then, let's commit to worshiping with holiness, leading with integrity, and teaching God's Word faithfully. Well,
we're going to go to the phones right now. We're going to talk to Weston in South Carolina, listening on Wbbj. Welcome to Open Line. Weston. How can I help you today?
Yes, doctor. Michael, my name is Weston, and I listen on Wbbj 99.1, part of the Good News Network. Great. And I wanted to know where in the Bible does Paul start his preaching?
What?
Where does he start his preaching? Okay. I think it's really interesting. Uh, he starts his preaching immediately upon conversion. As soon as he becomes, uh, transformed. By the way, he didn't convert from being Jewish to a Christian. What he did is he converted from being a sinner opposed to God, to someone that would faithfully follow the the Lord Jesus. And it says that he was in Damascus. He has on the road to Damascus. He has the vision of the Lord Jesus. Right. Uh, and then he
goes to Damascus and he's blind. And Ananias comes and lays hands on him. And the the scales fell from his eyes and exit, uh, an exodus in acts 918 at once something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. And then he got up and he was baptized. and after taking some food, he regained
his strength. And then look at what it says. Uh, in acts nine 819, Saul was with the disciples in Damascus for some days now, verse 20, immediately he began proclaiming Jesus in the synagogues, saying, he is the Son of God. So when did he start this proclamation? When did he start preaching? Immediately after coming to know Jesus. That's when he started. It reminds me of John nine, where the blind man who the man who was born blind,
he sees and he immediately starts teaching about Jesus. And they want him to the leadership, religious leadership want him to explain everything he says. Mm. I don't know all that this much I know I once was blind, but now I see. So Paul began immediately. Uh, now he had a lot of knowledge of Scripture, so he had a lot to fall back on. But now he saw the fulfillment and he was proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah. So that's when he began right away, when he came to know the Lord. Okay. Weston.
Okay. Yep.
Thanks. Thanks for your call, by the way. That's there's there's no reason that any of us can ever say I can't talk about the Lord. All we have to do is talk about what he did in our lives. We don't have to have every answer. You know, that's that's something people will ask us questions. I don't have all the answers. But I do know this. I once was blind, but now I see. That's that's what we need to do. We need to start from where we're at with what the Lord has done for us. Now, uh,
before we, uh, take a break, I want to mention something. Uh, I just cited from the Book of Acts. The Book of Acts, one of my favorite books. Loved it. Since I came to Moody as a student 50 years ago this week. And, uh, our our current resources. Doctor Charles Ryrie everyday Bible commentary on the book of acts. Everyday commentary on acts. It. You know, the book of acts is history. It's apologetics. It's the defense of the gospel. Uh, it's geography, it's biography. Uh, it's so much. And it's
also got some pretty significant theology. How do you navigate all that? Well, this little book will really help you. And if you would like to get a copy of it, what we would like for you to do is we'd like to send you a copy by. If you give a gift of any size, just send a gift. We're happy to send it to you. We want to say thank you for your gift, and that's the way we're
going to do it. And so if you'd like, uh, give a gift, uh, and then if you'd like to do that, all you have to do is go to our, uh, our website, openline. Line radio.org. And, you know, I've seemed to have lost the phone number. Trish, what's the number I'm supposed to call? (888) 644-7122. That's where you have to go to if you'd like to give a gift or our website openline radio.org. And don't forget, ask for the everyday Bible commentary on acts. Well, we're going to come back.
There's a whole bunch of questions. Our phone number here. (877) 548-3675. And when we come back, we're going to talk to you about your questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. My name is Michael Read Melnick. You're listening to Openline. And when we come back, we'll be talking with you about your understanding and your questions about the scriptures. Stay with us. We're coming right back. Welcome back to Open Line. So glad to be with you this morning.
My name is Michael Riedel, and the phone number here is (877) 548-3675. You can call with any question you might want to discuss about the Bible or God or the spiritual life. We're going to go right back to the phones here. Uh, green in the Chicago area. Interesting. First name green listening on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line. How can I help you?
Oh, God bless you. And thank you for taking my call. My great grandfather left me that name, so I've been carrying green a long time. My son say, daddy, I can't do it to my son because it was hard in school. But Michael, that that was that was the history of the green first name.
Yeah. That's interesting. Huh?
Yes. Uh, my question is, in this day and time, and I love what you say about men and women standing in the gap. do that leave room for women to pastor in the church. Biblically?
Well, here's here's what I think. Uh, let's distinguish between the office of pastor and the gift of pastor. Because if you read Ephesians 411 and 12, you'll see that there are there's a gift of pastor, the gift of pastor, teacher. And and so if you asked me, can women have
the gift of pastor? The answer is absolutely yes. And when I was leading a congregation, one of the things I did, I've led several congregations, but one in particular I planted and I was at I remember distinctly I was a young, fairly young pastor, and I really felt like what the women in that congregation needed was mature leadership, a woman to minister in their lives. My wife would
have could have done that. But we had little kids, and she was really preoccupied with a lot of that and needed a little more time with our kids than than she couldn't be doing that. And the Lord provided this really dear, very mature woman who lived in Florida for the, the, uh, December, January, February. But the rest of the year, about March through November, she was up in the North, and she shepherded those women because it was her gift of pastor teacher. She taught Bible study.
She discipled, she encouraged, she counseled. She did all that great stuff. Uh, and but she just did it because that was her spiritual gift. It was not her office, uh, the office that we really have to address is the office of elder. And in my judgment, like a lead pastor in a congregation that is a person who has the office of elder with other elders, and in first Timothy 211 to 12, that that verse 212, it says, I don't allow a woman to teach or exercise authority
over a man. In that context, I think that that's referring to the office of elder. And and so it seems to me that the office of elder, uh, is limited to men and not just any man spiritually mature. Read first Timothy three. It says, what kind of men can be elders? Not all men, just some men who exhibit spiritual maturity and have the the calling by God to lead and shepherd and do those kinds of things. That's where I think, uh, the office of, of lead
pastor sits. And I think for that reason, it should be because it's an it's an elder role that's limited to men. But ministry is not limited to men. Women minister in a variety of ways. They teach in a variety of ways. I think, for example, when it says that don't allow women to teach a man in that passage, it's talking about the authoritative exposition of God's Word as the congregation gathers. It doesn't mean a woman can't teach a Sunday school class, or a woman can't teach a
home group. That's a different kind of setting for teaching, and I think that's utterly permissible. And then if you go a little bit further, women can teach women. Women can teach children, uh, there's all sorts of ways the small group setting is what I was thinking of when Priscilla and Aquila taught Apollos the more accurate way of understanding the scriptures. They did that in a small group setting. And and Priscilla was there doing it. So there are many,
many ways that women can minister. But the lead pastor position, I think is limited because it's an elder role. It's limited to men. Does that help? Okay.
Oh, that helped a lot because my thoughts were in the last days. Your sons and daughters shall prophesy. And, you know, that's what my brain was just wrestling with that thing. I know some good friend, women that are standing in the pastor's position of their own group of people. And, you know, I'm just it's just. Well, in this day, in this day and time, it's just things in my head and I.
Yeah, well, let me just say green. Even in the New Testament, when there were prophets operating in the church, it talks about in first Corinthians 11, a woman can prophesy, but she had to have her head covered as a sign of the authority over her. So I don't think that, uh. And she was allowed to pray as well, uh, publicly in the congregation. So it's not absolute silence that women
are supposed to carry out or anything like that. Uh, rather, it's it's actually, uh, that, that, uh, and women, there are many, many things that women can do. I just think it's the office of lead pastor because it's an elder role, any kind of elder role. That's what's limited. And I don't think it was just cultural. There are many people who say that's cultural today in our culture,
it's acceptable. If you look at the follow up verses and verses 13 and 14, Paul gives his explanation as being the order of creation and the the fall that look at the terrible consequences of Eve not following the established order. And so that's what it's about. But, uh, I don't mean this to say in any way that women can't, uh, operate and serve God operate as his gap. Women, uh, having a great effect and impact on our our culture and our society. Thanks for your call. We're going to
talk to Jim in Michigan. Welcome to Open Line. Jim. How can I help you today?
Last week, my wife and I were talking and we got to questioning what is the Tanakh versus the Torah versus the Talmud. And when a friend of hers says, I've been listening to this rabbi on the radio, he's been teaching from the, uh, Talmud or Talmud, I think is what it was. Uh, should we be concerned or amused?
Well, I don't think either. Uh, okay, here's the word Tanakh is the. It's an, uh, I think an acronym you would say of the word for the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible. Uh, you've got the Pentateuch, which is Torah. So take the T, then you've got prophets Nevi'im that's the N, and then, uh, writings. Ketuvim that's the that's the the G at the end. It gets it doesn't sound like it's softened, but it's, uh, softened
from a hard K to a J. So it becomes Tanakh. Uh, and that just stands for Law and Prophets and Writings, which is. And so it's an acronym for the Old Testament. The Talmud means learning. And it's a massive set of materials that the rabbis engaged in to say, how do we apply the law in our current circumstances Stances right now. That's the most of it. It's it's something called it contains what in Hebrew is called halakha. It means how to walk or how to. It's the legal decisions, you know,
if we're supposed to, uh, keep kosher. What constitutes kosher? A rabbi might say. And there's whole books about it if you're supposed to rest on Shabbat. There's a whole slew of regulations of what constitutes rest, what's permitted, what's not permitted. And so that's what the Talmud is about. 80% of it is what these legal decisions called halakha. There's another word. Oh, you want to know what the Torah is? Torah is the Hebrew word, and it means law or instruction.
And it's the first five books of Moses. The Torah also. It's it's it's become used for the whole Bible. Whole Hebrew Bible sometimes, or any kind of instruction. So, uh, that that's that's what that is. If you're, you know, it depends on why your friend is listening to a rabbi teach the Talmud. There's some really wonderful wisdom principles of how to apply the Torah in the Talmud. And, uh, I think there's a lot of good things you can
learn from it. Uh, does is it? You know, I teach a course which includes, uh, teaching the Mishnah, which is part of the Talmud, the Gemara, which together the mission and the Gemara makes the Talmud, uh, I teach these rabbinic things so that students can learn the logic of the Torah, of the Talmud. They can learn how it's done. It's it's got a different kind of logic to it. Uh, there's a lot of good things we can learn from it, a lot of good applications. However, uh,
I would just say it's not the wonderful words of life. It's. It's not like teaching the scriptures And and so for me, I would rather focus on the scriptures rather than the Talmud. But it's it's not going to hurt, I don't think, if your friend is listening to that. So anyway, thanks for your call. Appreciate it. We're going to come back with the mailbag in just a moment, so don't go away. Tricia McMillan. She's dragging it in right now. This is
Michael Ray Dolnick. You're listening to Open Line. Welcome back to Open Line. My name is Michael Ray Dolnick. And joining me in a moment for the Far East. Far, Far East Broadcasting Company's, uh, mailbag segment. The Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. I'm so grateful that Febc, a Far Eastern Broadcasting company, is partnering with Openline to bring you the mailbag. It's a ministry that reaches people through media in a great way. They also have people on the
ground to follow up there. They're having a great impact. If you want to learn more, just go to their website, febc.org. Click on the link that they have there to to their their podcast. It's called Until All Have Heard featuring Ed Cannon. You're going to love that. Check it out. I'm sure you're going to really appreciate this ministry. Well Tricia, it's good to see you. You too. And to Hira. I'm glad to see you too.
Thank you. Great to be here. Hi, Michael.
Uh, now, today I, we got our calendars from Chosen People Ministries, our Jewish art calendars. Yes, yes. And they're beautiful, aren't they?
They are. They really are.
They're just great. And the thing is, they start in September because Jewish holidays begin in September. And what I love about this, it shows this calendar this year. The theme is God's promises to Israel, God's faithfulness to the people of Israel in the land of Israel. And it goes all the way back to biblical times that God has been faithful to the modern times. Even after October 7th.
God is faithful to his people. And one of the most important aspects of God's faithfulness to his people is that, uh, that he faithfully sent the Messiah, the Messiah, Jesus. And so, anyway, I love this calendar. It's a great calendar. And by the way, you can get it too. If you're listening, you'd like a copy. Chosen People Ministries has made it available. All you have to do to get a free copy of this beautiful Messianic Jewish art calendar is go to
our website. That's Openline radio.org. Scroll down and you'll see a link that says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries. And when you click on that, you'll be taken to a site where you can sign up for your very own copy of the Chosen People Ministries Messianic Jewish Art calendar. And I think you're going to really like it. Tricia likes it, I do.
Yeah, I do. I'm very I was very excited to see it today. That's great. Flip through it. Yeah. Yeah.
And to hear you said this is my first one, right? Yes.
My first calendar for 2025. So thank you.
There you go. That's great. So okay. Thank you. Chosen People Ministries for sending those. And they can send you one too. Well, we've got the mailbag here. What have we got?
We do. Our first question is from Edwin in Florida. Listens to keys in job after job was redeemed for his righteousness. Did this recovery and redemption justify the beliefs of his friends who had stated that he was being punished as a sinner? And that's why all of this suffering was happening? Zohar would say at the end that he was right, because he told him that life would be brighter than noonday and darkness will become morning. in job 11.
So let me let me see if I understand this question. Were job's friends right? That job was suffering because of his sin?
Well, were they right? But. But how does this help their misguided theology to think that they were right? Whether so, were they right? Um. And I guess whether if they weren't completely right, how does this help their misguided theology?
It's not really designed to help their misguided theology. Okay. It's designed to help our misguided theology and.
Job's misguided theology.
Yeah. Well, yeah. Job's a character in the story. The book is designed to help our misguided theology. Okay. It's not even designed to change job. He's just a character. I mean, he really existed.
He existed.
Yes, but. But he's just a character in the story. Uh, that's just that's something that I think is so funny is so often we forget that the purpose of biblical books is for the reader, not. No, it's it's not for the characters in the stories. So if we read the gospel and it talks about Jesus transforming the life of someone, right, we think, oh, Jesus, that was to transform that person's life. No, it's for us to learn about Jesus so we, our lives can be transformed.
But not that the you're not saying that what happened? So for instance, in John nine to the to the blind man. Blind man, you're not saying it was not for the blind man to have him transformed. You're saying that the writing down of it so that we could read it exactly for him? That's it. So you're not saying this wasn't for Joe, but you're saying the writing down of it? Yeah. The book is not for Joe.
The book is for us. For for the readers. Okay. And what we learn so often that people think we get so into the story, we think it's only about job or it's about Elihu or, you know, Bildad. It's not. It's about, what are we going to learn about this? Well, the first thing we learn is that when we look at someone and say they're suffering for their sin, they're suffering, so they must have sin. Well, obviously job didn't. And
so so we better rethink our theology. If that's the kind of theology that we have, we learn not to be judgmental like that. Second thing is, as we read this book, we learn, and this is an important lesson that we can complain to God. We can cry out to God. We can tell God we feel we're being treated unfairly. The one thing that job couldn't do was demand that God come down and explain himself, because this
is a book about God's sovereignty. And so what he had to learn was that God is sovereign and he knows what's best for us, even if we don't understand it. We have to trust him. And that's what job says at the end when he says in chapter 42 I had heard the rumors about you, but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore, I take back my words and repent in dust and ashes. That was not the sin
his friends accused him of. The secret sin. Write this the sin was his presumption that God had to explain himself, and now he sees how great and sovereign God is. And so what do we learn about that? We can be like job and that we can complain to God. We can. We can pour out our hearts to God. We can. But what we can't do is demand that God explain himself, that why does God why, why you're wrong in doing this to me. You come down right here like we're talking to our teenage son. You get.
You explain yourself, young man. No, you don't do that with the sovereign of the universe. Uh, because he knows what's best. So, uh, no, I don't think it justifies that his friends were right. They were not right. And it doesn't, uh, doesn't justify Jobe's attitude either. And it teaches us that we're going to suffer. We every one of us, by the way, will suffer. You know, you hear me say it all the time. Most unclaimed promise in the Bible. In this world you will have tribulation.
I sometimes ask God why this tribulation? Do I really, really need this? But I. I really guard my heart against demanding that he explain himself to me because it's wrong. Yeah. That's wrong. God himself. He knows what's best. Uh, I plead with him, I talk with him. I'm really transparent with God. Uh, about like. Like he's surprised to know how I feel, right? He knows how I feel, but I express it to him. Uh, but I don't ever want to demand that he explain himself to me.
Yet what I hear you saying is, I can express my anger to God. I can express the fact that I don't understand something, but at the end of the day, God is still God. God will always be God, and I have to always give God that reverence.
Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. That respect for his sovereignty and his authority. Okay.
All right. Thank you. Thanks for that question, Edwin.
Thank you. Our next question is from Lee in Minnesota, and he listens through M.c.b. The question is, when we die, we go to be with the Lord. But are we in heaven? Or is that for when the new heaven is created?
Well, we go to be with God in His presence. It's called heaven. Uh, the reason I know that, you know, Paul talks about, uh, that he ascended to the third heaven. The first, the first heaven is the sky, then the second heaven is the atmosphere, and the third heaven is the presence of God. So Paul actually was brought by vision to the presence of God. When we die, we don't go by vision. We go there actually. And so
we will go to heaven. But the new heavens and the new earth, the new creation that comes the way. If you look at the end of days, what we have now is we're in the age of the church. What's going to happen? Yet in the future there will be the rapture, and then we'll have the tribulation period. After the seven year tribulation, there'll be a thousand year reign of Jesus on earth, and then there'll be the some people call it the world to come or the
eternal state. It's going to be a new heavens and a new earth. And so often we think of heaven as just when we die. But the new creation is where we're going to spend eternity. Uh, that new heavens and the new earth that, uh, with with God at the center of it. Uh, and we'll see the Lord Jesus, uh, and he will lead us from there. And that's forever. And it doesn't give us a lot of detail about what that's what a lot of people think of as heaven.
You know, the the old Greek, uh, fathers said it was like sitting on a cloud, plucking a plucking a harp. I don't think so. It says in revelation 21, his servants will serve him. So we're going to be serving him. But I think it is so beyond our comprehension. He's held back a lot of the details. Yeah. So yeah, but that's that's heaven, too, in a sense. It's the new creation, but it's going to be a physical, literal place. Okay.
So the current heaven, if someone were to die today.
They'd go to be with the presence of God.
In, in like a holding place, heaven until the eternal.
It's the presence of God.
That's where they go. Presence of God. But then, then they will move to.
Then they'll be resurrected at the rapture of someone who dies today at the rapture will be resurrected physically and be part of that messianic kingdom on earth, that thousand year reign. Uh, and then we'll go into eternity, uh, in the new heavens and new earth with a physical body.
Okay.
Yeah. We're not going to be just on a cloud with a with a harp. Okay. Yeah.
All right, so right now, their spirit.
Yeah. Just immaterial.
Immaterial. And then they will be reunited and have a physical body for the eternity. Yep. Okay. There's so many. It just even even this kind of can be a head scratcher. Yeah. It is. Trying to figure.
Out. Some people say, you know, people go to soul sleep and they're resurrected, and that's no. Paul says absent from the body is present with the Lord. Lord. Second Corinthians five. It says in Philippians one, Paul wants to go, uh, wants to stay behind and minister to the Philippians. But he says, but it's far better for him to go to be with the Lord. Yeah. So we do go be with the Lord, but it's just the immaterial parts of us that go. Okay. Part of us. Okay.
Okay. All right.
Good. Great. Well, we're going to take a break here. We have time for more questions next hour, you can always go to Open Line radio.org and click on the link that says Ask Michael a question and post your question there. And then Tricia will put it in the mailbag and we'll try to get to as many. Next week we have a full mailbag program so you can listen to that. Uh, you're listening to open right now. Open line right now with Tricia McMillan. And Tahira and
Michael will be right back. We're back. My name is Michael Melnick. This program is called Open Line. You can ask questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. The phone number (877) 548-3675. Now, if you could just see what I'm looking at. There are about four people in the booth right into the next room that I'm looking at, and they're laughing and having a good time. They pay no attention to the program. I just I'm, I think it's just no, they are paying attention. But I think
it's so great to look at that team. They're working so hard to make me sound okay and I so appreciate them. And also, there's someone else in another room that I don't even see that's answering the phones. There's a real team here. You know, so often people think it's just Nokia on the phone that I'm talking to. But no, there's there's all of Moody Radio and then there's the technical people that I don't even see that make sure that this goes out. It's I love being
part of Moody Radio because of the fantastic team. And there's some other unseen members of this team for Open Line. They are our kitchen table partners. Those kitchen table partners are those people who commit to give monthly to open line so we can be on the air weekly. So appreciate them. Uh, they give $30 a month. They can even get 50% off on the Moody Publishers catalog. And One of the things that I like to do is every other week we send a Bible study moment to
our kitchen table partners. It's an audio Bible study, about 5 or 10 minutes. Get it in your email, click on it, listen to it. I think it's an encouragement to walk with the Lord, to have a better understanding of the scriptures, to various things that we, we've done, understand the Bible better. Uh, if you'd like to become a kitchen table partner, uh, you'd consider it. We'd really appreciate it. One of the best things to do is just go to our website, openline radio.org. Or you can
call (888) 644-7122. And you can decide to become a kitchen table partner too. And we would very much appreciate it. Well, we're going to talk to Lisa in Minnesota listening on Katie. Big welcome to Open Line Lisa. How can I help you today.
Hi Michael. My question is I would like clarification on speaking in tongues. I know, um, you know, the Bible says that it happened at Pentecost and it was the language of the land, so that everybody there, you know, from all around in other countries could understand it. And nowadays it seems like it's, um, obviously a language just for in prayer between the prayer and God. So I'm a little confused on what the what does the Bible say about what the language of tongues is. And if
you could explain that, that would be great. And is it a gift or is it can it be taught?
No, it can't be taught. It's a spiritual gift. Uh, no one.
My daughter, with that saying that they could teach her in tongues. And I said, yeah, that is not biblical.
No, it's a spiritual gift. Just think about acts two. When the gift of tongues landed it, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, and they spoke in languages that they had not learned, but they were real languages. Same thing when Cornelius hears the gospel, believes the Holy Spirit falls on him, and he speaks in languages that he had not learned. That's in acts ten. So, uh, that that's what it is. It's being a spiritual gift that enables a person to speak in a language without having a
foreign language, without having learned it. That's what the gift of tongues is. And then when you come to the epistles, some people want to change the meaning. Uh, now, here's the thing. And and now I want to just say this before I say anything else. Lisa, people disagree with me about what I'm about to say. My brothers and sisters, fellow believers whom I love, will disagree with me about this. I disagree with them. I, you know, I still love them. This is one of those things where there are no
good guys or bad guys. You know, we're just we're just going to agree to disagree without being disagreeable. Okay. So that's I know the letters will come in when I explain what I understand about this. I'm not saying I've not read or pursued the other position to try and get a good grip on it. I have, but this is where I've landed. Okay. Uh, first of all, the modern tongues that that has been spoken, there really is no documented case where someone speaks in tongues in
a language that's real. Mostly linguists find that it's gibberish. Not mostly universally, uh, that that it is. And there's a lot of studies done on it by linguists gibberish. And the explanation that's given is in First Corinthians 13, where it says, if I speak with tongues of men or of angels, and they say, oh, the reason why it can't be classified as a real language is because it's angel speak, it's angel language. And and they're not
they're heavenly languages. They're not earthly and they can't be categorized. Well, that misunderstands first Corinthians 13 and first Corinthians 13. Paul is speaking hyperbole with hyperbole, uh, exaggeration. He's saying if men are angels of any kind of language imaginable, uh, and if I don't have love, it's useless. He is not in any way saying there's a different category of language.
Just look at when we see pictures of heaven. Angels are speaking but visions of heaven in the Bible, they're speaking languages that we can understand. So and also in Galatians one Paul says, if an angel speaks another gospel to you, an angel from heaven speaks another gospel to you, let him be anathema. Angels from heaven aren't going to speak another gospel. The point of it is that that
this is saying that, uh, it's it's hyperbole. Uh, you know, when it talks about in first Corinthians 14 that a person who speaks in tongues without, uh, interpretation that that is, uh, for self edification. Uh, truthfully, the purpose of spiritual gifts is never for self edification. It's for edification of the body. Paul says that in a negative way, he's not approving, uh,
praying in tongues for the purpose of self edification. What he's doing is he's talking about, uh, that you should not pray in tongues without interpretation because it's only self-edification you edify yourself. What's the goal of a language to edify the body? The goal of all gifts to edify the body. So there's a lot to be said about tongues. Uh, I try not to argue about it, but I hope that answers some of the questions. Here's what I will tell you. First Corinthians 14 says, all do not speak
in tongues, do they? And the answer is no. So everyone does not have to speak in tongues. Don't put any pressure on your daughter or yourself to speak on in tongues. Uh, that's just not necessary. Well, first hour's up. We're going to come back with a second hour in just a moment. Check out our web page Openline radio.org. Uh, on that page you'll find links to our current resource how to become a kitchen table Partner, how to get the chosen people offer. This month. You'll see it all there. Uh,
just go to our website, openline. radio.org. More questions coming up in just a bit. So stay with us. Second hour coming up straight ahead. Open line is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. We're coming right back, so stay with us.