It's a different kind of two Michaels program today. Stay with me. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends. Welcome to Open Line. My name is Michael Radonich. I'm the academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. And now it's time for our Bible study across America. We're sitting around the radio kitchen table. We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God, and the spiritual life. If you have a question and you'd
like to call, here's the phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me give that to you again. Maybe you can write it down (877) 548-3675. And everyone wants to know I always try to get through, but I can't, uh, I get a busy signal. Here's the best way to get through. Call now, right at the beginning of the program. That's the time to get through. (877) 548-3675. Tricia McMillan is in the producer's chair. Omar Mendoza is our tech guy today, and Titus is
answering the phones again. Phone number (877) 548-3675. It's time to get yourself a cup of coffee and open your Bible. We're about to study the scriptures together, and I have someone that's going to study with us today, and I want to introduce him before anything else. His name is doctor Mike Fabares. He's the lead pastor at Compass Bible Church. He's the Bible teacher on Focal Point Radio, a nationally syndicated radio program heard all across Moody Radio and other
stations as well. This audience knows him well. He's the regular guest host on Open Line. He's one of my favorite Bible teachers. Listen to his program all the time, and I'm grateful to call him friend. I want to thank you for joining me this morning as I crash your studio here at Compass Bible Church. Mike. Well, you're.
In California and you're still still kicking. God didn't strike you down coming to the left coast this week.
Yeah. You know, it's a beautiful facility here. And I really encourage anyone that comes out to Orange County. Aliso Viejo. Did I say it right? Close enough.
Close enough. Better than my Hebrew pronunciation. Okay. That's good. Okay.
It's a beautiful church, and it's a really terrific place to hear the word taught and become a part of a community of believers. But, you know, it's unfortunate. I don't think Open Line really airs here in Orange County. I don't think we have a station. I've got to find a station only online.
Yeah, I think only online.
Anyway, it's, uh, great to have you. I think that before we answer calls, there's something I wanted to talk with you about. I heard you share your faith story once about how it is that you came to know the Lord. I think it's so, well, unique for what I would say, a moody student experience. So why don't you tell us that?
Well, I became a Christian in Culbertson Hall in the 16th floor in 1609. That little cracker box of a of a dorm room. And I was trying to just be obedient to my father, and I was not doing it happily. See, my dad had said to me, had said to me that I needed to go to Bible school before I went to college. And of course, I was in a situation of saying, well, I got my
college all planned out, dad. But, you know, my dad, Jake, he said, you got to go to Bible school because if you don't get a year of Bible school, you're going to go to the university and you're going to be you're going to be wiped out because all the all the things that are teaching at the university these
days is going to corrupt your faith. Well, dad, of course, thought I had faith because I was a church kid, grew up in church and thought just because I went to church, I was a Christian and I got to the place of realizing once I got to Moody, putting in my my one year that, um, I wasn't and that was that was a hard realization. I didn't know what was going on exactly, but I knew I couldn't have one foot in and one foot out. And that's kind of how I realized, as I got exposed to
the great teaching of the professors at Moody. Here I was as an 18 year old, just turned 18, and I said, God, I'm either going to have to get out of this place because it's too much pressure. It's making me sweat. Every, every class is is killing me here. And I realized that Christianity was was not something you could do part time. And I realized that's what I
was doing on Sundays and Wednesdays as a teenager. But I remember kneeling down at my bed there in that little dorm room facing downtown, hearing the sirens and all that was going on. And I said, God, you've got my life. This is I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired of holding back. I'm tired of keeping my own dreams in my own back pocket. And saying I can put
a little Christ in my life and be okay. And really, was that truth of Second Corinthians 515 that, you know, I had to see it as that Christ had died for me, so that those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for the one who died for them and rose again. So I, uh, I just said, God, I'm yours. And everything changed. From that point on, I realized there was a real organic change from the inside out. And that's what the Bible calls the Holy Spirit invading
your life. And things were different from that point on and put me on a path that ended up right here in the studio with Michael Riedel. Nick. Yeah, look at that. Amazing.
Now, was it after hearing a sermon by at Moody Church? Is that what I.
Well, Moody Church and Erwin Lutzer. It's funny. You're going to preach for me this weekend here at our church, and I'm so thankful for that. Last week, Erwin Lutzer was here preaching. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I'll tell you what, it's just so great to have him here because he was the pastor that after I had become a Christian, I said, God, what am I supposed to do with
my life? And he preached the sermon. We went to dinner last week and I told him this story, which I think I've told him before, but I said, you know, you said something about, uh, you know, we don't need Christians to dabble in a lot of things. We need Christians to do one thing and do it well. And once I said, you said that, he said, oh, I was quoting someone else. But that was the thing that got me thinking, God, what's my one thing? What am
I supposed to do with my life? I want to live for Christ, but I don't know what I'm supposed to do. So, you know, being 18, that was a great time to kind of ask that question. That's why Moody is so important as an institute, right? Moody is a place that's taking young lives, young lives and helping them kind of calibrate and aim their lives by God's grace into the most fruitful and effective life they can live. So, so important that that Erwin preached that sermon and Doctor
Lutzer had such an instrumental role in my life. But no, it was a missions night. I got saved on a night that someone came to Moody, I think it was in October, and he preached some sermon about, you know, the need for world missions, which Moody, you know, was known for. And I don't I don't even know what he said other than I thought, I'm not that guy. I don't want to go to the mission field. And and I realize, you know, what is it that I
want versus what Christ wants? And that led me to real repentance and faith by God's grace.
Huh? That's I think that's a great story. Every now and then, I hear stories like that of moody students who came because of encouragement by their dad. They thought they knew the Lord. You know what Paul says? Examine yourself to see if you're in the faith, because, you know, it could be that it's just sort of a cultural thing. And, uh, especially if you're young people.
Well, I figured if Martin Luther could be a monk before he became a Christian, then I certainly could be a Bible school student before I became a Christian.
I just think that's great. And I'm so glad, you know, now you serve on the board of trustees of Moody Bible Institute. Yes. I think that that's just a great movement from coming to Moody not even knowing the Lord.
Yeah.
And now you're on the trustee board.
Amazing. God's great. God's sense of humor.
Yeah. Okay, so here's the other thing. Since Thanksgiving is coming up, I thought this is something that's really important. I was thinking about one of my favorite Thanksgiving verses. Psalm 105. Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for he is good. Uh, call upon his name. That's the first verse of Psalm 105. A lot of times people neglect this. And I was my wife was actually listening to a message you gave on Focal Point. Uh, that it's not that our culture today is more about they treat Thanksgiving,
about being thankful. We just should be thankful. But there's no object. There's no direct object of to whom we're thankful. Yes. And and that's what she said you were talking about in that message while I.
Was preaching on that, because I had watched the news and I watched some broadcasters or newscasters say something about, you know, how thankful we should be this week and of course had no reference to God. And I thought in my own life I've seen people that feel really happy with their life. I got a great job. I got my kids are healthy, everything's good. I'm so thankful. And it's an emotional feeling of everything's good in my life. And so I guess the right thing to say is
I'm thankful. But it's into the ether, right? There's no they're not thankful to anyone for anything. And they're certainly not calling out to that person as the one who provides everything. They're just saying, I feel good. Look at how good my life is. I'm thankful as though that's a humble way to say, look at what I've accomplished, right? They're not Nebuchadnezzar walking around on the portico of his palace, but they have a sense of yeah, okay, I'm thankful.
And I just irritated me. And before that, I preached that sermon. I just, I thought, we have to be clear. We cannot let people get away with saying they're thankful. You need to ask them to to to who are you thankful to? To what? Yourself. Right? The cosmos, you know, who are you thankful to? And of course, the Bible gives us the answer, right? Every good and perfect gift comes from God, and we need to be thankful to him.
And then we need to call on his name because he's the one that provides everything for us.
Exactly, exactly. So that's that's why I like Psalm 105. There's so many verses about thankfulness, but it's always being thankful to the one who is our great provider, our great giver, with his kindness. And so again this year at Thanksgiving, when you sit around the table and everyone says how thankful they are, remember folks who are supposed to say we're thankful to and call upon him more
and more. One of the things I love about, uh, of many things I love about my wife, but one thing I love is whenever someone says, how are you doing? She always says, Thank God. Mhm. Mhm. Because in him we live and move and have our being every breath we take.
She knows that of late. Yeah, yeah. How God has taken her through so much. Yeah.
So God's been good. So good. Yeah. Okay. Well, uh, I think it's time to take a call. Uh. Uh, who do we have first? Well, well, let's.
Start with, uh, we've got a call from Florida here. Uh nilsa. You're on the air with Michael and Mike. How can we help?
Yes, sir. How can we help you? Yeah.
Yes. I just have a question regarding cremation, and, um. Is it wrong? Is it right, or where in the Bible would I find something like that?
Oh, Neil said, let me just tell you something I used to. I'm going to tell you this because it's a book written by pastor Mike that changed my perspective on cremation. Uh, not because I ever thought it was good, but because I didn't think that the Bible spoke to it. So here, I'll give you my answer. And then I'm going to have pastor Mike jump in. I'm going to start this way. Uh, first of all, I, I didn't
personally think that the Bible spoke to it. A lot of people are looking to save money and so they are choosing create a cremation as an alternative. But I always would say, listen, I was raised in an observant Jewish home. According to Judaism, we must treat the body as a vessel that held something holy and therefore should
be treated with respect and dignity and not cremated. And then I further feel this way, because I had most of my family murdered and cremated at Auschwitz and Treblinka, even four brothers and a sister, half brothers and half sister. So the the result was I just found it creepy and didn't like it, but I didn't think there was anything in the Bible. But then I read a book by pastor Mike and this is what he has to say about it.
Well, I did write a chapter on this because I, I thought through this issue and I said, well, there's no verse or chapter I can look at that just is one verse I could quote and say, hey, it's clear right here. But I do think there's so much in the Scripture like First Corinthians six, it talks about the sacred nature of our bodies as the temple of the spirit. And you'd say, well, okay, but the Spirit of God and my spirit are gone when I die.
And that's true. But God's not done with our bodies yet. Just like if you if this were Peter, James, and John talking about Jesus on the weekend of his crucifixion and said, well, let's just burn his body and pulverize his bones, we'd think, no, his body is going to come out of the grave now. It's going to be completely remade. It's going to be glorified. But Jesus didn't leave an old body in the tomb, right? God took
whatever was left of that body. And even after a weekend, right, there was a lot of purification, a lot of decay. And yet God restored what was left and made a glorified body out of it. So I think Judaism was right in saying, the vessel of the body is important. God's not done with it yet. We're setting it aside respectfully in a grave. We're doing the best we can to preserve it, just like they have in Joseph's day back in Genesis and Jesus's day in the first century.
And we're saying, God, you're going to bring this back to life, what's left of it, and you're going to make it and transform it to be like Christ's resurrected body. So I think we should treat the dead body with respect. I think even the laws on the books of most states will say, you can't desecrate a dead body. Why? Because I think we know intuitively it's important we don't lay it out for the trash. Right? For, you know, with the garbage. This is not garbage. This is a
body made in the image of God. We should treat it with dignity. Does it cost a little bit more? Sure it does. But have some people come around and take a collection. Do whatever you have to do. It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be expensive. Do it the best you can economically, but lay the body aside with respect and await the resurrection.
Yep, I agree with that. We're going to take a break here. Appreciate your call. Nilsa I encourage anyone listening. Nilsa. Whatever. Prepare. I always say get your your your finances in order. By that grave, by that, A casket, whatever is prepared. So it's not a burden for your kids, and then it'll be fine. We're going to be right back with more of your questions right here on Open Line with doctor Mike Bowers and me, Mike Radonich. Stay with us.
More questions coming up. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Mike Radonich. Joining me today is pastor Mike Barbaros from Compass Bible Church. Taking your questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. Before we take more questions, I do want to mention our current resource because Paul's letters to Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians are filled with timeless wisdom for the church. Sometimes I think we need a little help unpacking these great truths, and that's where the Moody
Bible Commentary excerpt comes in. You know, sometimes you think, oh, I don't know if I want that whole big, moody Bible commentary. Well, this commentary has been excerpted on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians, and we want to send it to you to say thank you for any gift that you choose to give it, for a gift of any size. We're going to say thank you by sending you these commentaries written by, uh, doctor Jerry Peterman, who is a chairman
of the Bible department at Moody Bible Institute. Great New Testament scholar. Really, really practical explanation. I think you're really going to love this book. And when you give a gift of any size, we'll send you a copy of this excerpt from the Moody Bible Commentary on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians. How to give. Just call (888) 644-7122 or visit openline radio.org. And we so appreciate your generosity. Uh, we'll
send you those books that that commentary on those books. Well, we're going to go back to the phones right now. And Mary is listening in Arizona on the internet. Welcome to Open Line, Mary. How can we help you today?
Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I have read in the Bible that when two or more together in worship that, you know, that's considered church and I could be interpreting wrong, or do I have to be going to like a corporate church to be worshiping with others, I guess, and, you know, be be more of a true Christian? Um, I've had a conversation with my husband about this.
Great, great. I, I totally get your question. And I'm going to answer part one. And then Pastor Mike's going to talk about why you need to be part of a church. Uh, if you're a follower of Jesus, that's something that's crucial. But first of all, that verse about where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name in Matthew 18, if you look at those words it's talking about, And this is something context, context context. It's talking about
church discipline. And when there is discipline, the leadership of the church, 2 or 3 gather and make a congregational discipline decisions. The Lord Jesus is in the midst of that. And that's what that verse is talking about. It's not talking about prayer or worship or or anything like that. It's actually the context is church discipline. But there are great verses that teach why it is that you should be part of a community of faith, of fellow followers of the Lord Jesus and my.
Yeah, well, first of all, I think you've got to look at passages like Ephesians chapter four, verses 11, 12 and 13. Here is God saying he has given the church for all time until he comes back, pastors and teachers, to equip us to build up the body of Christ. They are given to us not to stream online, but to go and gather together, as it says in Hebrews ten, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the habit of some, but gathering together, encouraging one another, stirring
one another on to love and good deeds. And all the more as we see the day drawing near. What I love about that last line is, I think church in person gathering and assembling is more important now than it was 50 years ago. More important now than it was 500 years ago. We must be gathered together with our chairs side by side for the teaching of the word and our chairs face to face, to stir one another up, to love and good deeds. And that is all designed by God for each Christian. Can't listen to
the radio and say, that's church. I can't just meet at a coffee shop with another Christian gal and say, that's church. It is about being assembled in the church. God has designed it with pastors and deacons to lead us, and that we need to take advantage of that. And if we get to heaven and say, well, God, you know, I had a relationship with you, I didn't need all those things that you made. He's going to say you did need them. And I told you you need them
and you need a pastor. Every Christian should be able to answer the question. Say, who's your pastor? So here are my pastors. I go to this church and this is my pastoral team that shepherds and keeps a count over my soul.
You know, there was a woman in my congregation when I was a pastor. She would come quite infrequently off and on, and I encouraged her and her husband to be more faithful. And she said, why should I be more faithful? I can listen to Charles Stanley, and he's a better preacher than you are. And I thought, that's really true. He is. And that was fine, I said, but I said, there are people that need you when you're at services. It's not just about what you need.
There are people that need you. And she said, oh no, no one needs me. And I said, just test it and see. And so she arrived one week right after we talked about that. And she's sitting in service and there's a woman weeping during the whole service. It was very unusual. And so this friend of mine leans over and says, can I help you? And it turns out that her marriage had blown up that week. It had
just been destroyed. Things happened and she was heartbroken. And so this friend of mine said, oh, we need to talk. And off they went to a corner. And they she encouraged her and prayed with her. And what I think is funny, that was probably 30 years ago or more 35 years ago. They are still close friends to this day. And she came up to me and she says, I hate it when you're right. Michael, I just hate it when you're right. Because she realized that she needed to
be there to minister to that other woman. That's why we stir each other up to love and good deeds. We we encourage one another. It's why it's so important. It's not just for what we can receive in that community, but also what we can give so that we can speak to each other with songs and hymns and all sorts of spiritual truths that we share with one another as we are in worship services together. Okay, I hope that helps, Mary.
Yes, very much so. Thank you so much.
Great, thanks. Thanks for calling. We're going to talk with Debbie in Punta Gorda, Florida, listening on Debbie SLR, welcome to Open Line. Debbie, how can we help you?
Thank you. Well, I want to kind of maybe follow up on Nils's question. Um, our glorified bodies. My question was, after the rapture and the marriage supper of the lamb, when Christ returned to earth on his second coming, this is the armies come with him. Is that all of the saints? And will all of us come back to earth with him, or will some stay in heaven? And so that's my question.
Well, I he's coming back to make war, you know, so I think I want to stay in heaven, but, uh, I don't I.
Don't, you know, I want to see it.
You know, when you're on the right side, it's okay. Uh, here's here's how I think, uh, I believe this is something that's so important. And, uh, what this is the first part is at the rapture. This is something that I think is so important. Uh, I kind of missed this for years and years and years. I was listening to this guy named Fabares answering Bible questions about the rapture. And he points out, and I'll maybe I'll let you point it out, who returns with Jesus at the rapture?
That's that's something that's so interesting. It says, uh, in first Thessalonians four at the rapture, those who died in Christ descend with him.
Yeah. Well, that's a lot of people argue about the rapture, but we are going to meet the Lord in the air if we happen to be, as First Corinthians 15 and the book of Thessalonians. First Thessalonians says, we're going to meet the Lord in the air. And those who have died, right? They're going to have their bodies reassembled and met up with their spirit. And that is going to happen at the rapture. Now, at the end of
the tribulation, this is your question. There is a description of this in revelation chapter 19, and it speaks about the armies of heaven coming back at the end of the tribulation. This is that scene where the Christ is seen as the rider on the white horse, and it says they're arrayed in fine linen, pure and white. And they were following him on white horses, that picture. Right. A lot of people could say, well, maybe that's the angelic host, but it seems like arrayed in fine linen
is the picture of Christians clothed in Christ's righteousness. And so we'll come back. It's not going to be much of a battle. It'll be a battle. It'll be terrible. But he's going to speak a word just like he created the world with a word. He's going to judge those nations with a word. And so we're not going to get our hands dirty that day. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, in first Thessalonians four where it talks about the rapture, this is the part I was talking about. It says since we believe that Jesus died and rose again in the same way God will bring with him at the rapture those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. So our our immaterial portion, that spirit, we would say, goes to be with the Lord when we die. Uh, absent from the body is present with the Lord, but our bodies look like they're sleeping. That's a euphemism for death.
And then when he returns, he takes those of us who have died and reassembles as Mike. Pastor Mike just said them with our bodies, and we get glorified bodies, and then we return. Uh, of course there's a bunch. So we have a resurrection at the rapture for those who have died in the Messiah. And then there's going to be a resurrection when we return with him, uh, at the the last battle, because it says in Daniel 12, that's when the Old Testament saints will be resurrected. And
so that's what we're looking at in the future. Two different resurrections, one for New Testament believers, one for Old Testament saints. We're going to come right back. Thanks for your really good question. We're going to be right back with more of the mailbag. Trish is putting that together for us, and we'll be answering the questions you mailed in. So don't go away. More coming up straight ahead. And we're back. Michael Zelnick here. Pastor Mike Faber is joining me. Uh,
a different kind of two Michaels, isn't it, Tricia? Also joining me right now, it is. Yeah. Usually when we have the two Michaels, it's Michael Van Landingham and me. He always says he's the other Michael. Uh, and that's always fun. But I'm so glad to be here in the studios of Compass Bible Church. And pastor Mike is here with me. He's a regular, uh, substitute host on Open Line. And, uh, it's worked out great. Really grateful to be here. I'm so grateful I get to speak
here at Compass Bible Church. I'm kind of nervous, but. No, don't be nervous.
You've done this before. Oh, yeah. Not here, but you've done it.
I've preached once or twice before.
In your.
Life. So anyway. Hey, uh, one of the things I noticed when we came here is how much teamwork it needed. Uh, there were even before pastor Mike and I were on the air, there was all sorts of tech people, from Compass Bible and from Moody Radio making sure that we can come from this studio. And it's so much teamwork. I think people are always surprised at how much teamwork is necessary For open line, even on a regular basis. I mean, it's not just you and me, Tricia. There's
Omar at the at the desk there. They're doing doing the board, and someone's answering the phones. It's always something. And of course, there's always Chris Siegert. He's he's there always worrying. I think that's especially his job listening and yeah, listening and making sure that everything is going to be sounding right. And I just so appreciate that. And then there's people who keep us on the air really by giving on a monthly basis. Those are our kitchen table partners.
They're part of the team. Everyone that listens, part of the team. And I appreciate those kitchen table partners because they are generously giving on a monthly basis so that we can be on the air on a weekly basis, and that that just means so much to me. Some of you are listening regularly and you think, well, maybe I'd like to be a kitchen table partner too. If you'd like to become part of the team, we'd really
appreciate it. Uh, all you have to do is call (888) 644-7122 or call open line or visit open line radio.org. And remember, every other week you'll get a special Bible study moment prepared exclusively for our kitchen table partners every other week. A little Bible study that you click on in your email. Again, call (888) 644-7122 or go to Open Line radio.org. Hey, Tricia. Yes. Uh, are you calm and ready for our, uh, long distance, uh, always mailbag? That's it. No, I.
Did want to say, though, if you, um, our next Bible study moment that goes out will go out on Thanksgiving Day, and it features both of you. Yeah.
That's right.
Mike. And you talking about thankfulness.
Oh that's right.
Yeah. Because pastor Mike was visiting Moody for the Board of Trustees meetings, and I grabbed him out of a meeting and said, hey, let's do a Bible study moment together.
I was late, but I said I got a hall pass from Doctor Riddell. Nick?
Yeah, so that'll that'll be a great one. It's like, how do you how do you give thanks in all circumstances? What does that look like? How do we be thankful. So it's a really good one.
Oh, good. I'm so glad. Yeah. Okay, well, let's let's look at these questions. What have you got for us? All right.
I've got a couple of questions that came in from, um, Shira, who is from Israel and is currently in the US traveling around. And she wants to know two questions. Did the sons of Israel commit genocide when they conquered Canaan under Joshua's leadership? That's her first question.
Well, that's a that's one of the hard questions that I don't think there's just a simple answer, but I think there are some limitations of what we know about this. First of all, uh, God gave the Canaanites a long time to repent. It says in Genesis 15 that Abraham was going to be sent. His descendants were going to be sent down for 400 years into Egypt, because the sins of the Amorites are not yet complete, meaning the
Amorites was a were a Canaanite people. And what was happening is they needed to repent, and God was giving them more time. But sort of like in Romans one, God gave them over to whatever it is that they wanted to do. And so God giving them time to repent, I think that's really important to see. And then after the 400 years when Israel comes back to the land, God is going to use Israel as his instrument of
judgment because the Canaanites did not repent. It's it's sort of like what God did with the world, with the Noahic flood. You know, the evil was so great he had to start over. And the same way the evil was so great in the land that God was going to judge it, just like he used the Babylonians to discipline Israel. God was going to use the Israelites to be his instrument of judgment, just like he used a
flood earlier as an instrument of judgment. Now he's going to use the Israelites, and it was just a one time event. It's just now when Israel is coming into the land. That was a one time event. It wasn't supposedly a genocide to destroy all people. It was a correction from God that he used at that time. It was never to be repeated. It was an isolated one time event, and I think it's really important for us to see that. Not an easy answer, but that's what I think it is. Do you want to?
Yeah. Here's what I would say. Genocide is usually a word that's used in modern parlance to describe people hating a people of a particular ethnicity. And that's not the point here of Joshua's conquest. Right? It's it's like the flood in Genesis six through nine, right? Yeah. Did God commit genocide? Well, of course, indirectly, I guess indirectly through water. But what does that mean? That means, he said, I've had enough of the sin and rebellion, and there's going
to be judgment. That's the promise from the garden. Right. You sin and there will be death. And so it was in Canaan. And I got to remind you, at the end of the wilderness wanderings, just before Moses handed off the baton to Joshua, he says in Deuteronomy chapter 11, I'm going to lay the fear of you. That is you, the Israelites, Joshua, the leaders, and the dread of you on all the land that you shall tread. As he promised you. So these people like Rahab, there was already
a fear. Israel's coming, Israel's coming. And this righteous people who serve this righteous God, and we're wicked. We're killing our babies in fire. And they knew it had all this time to get out. And kind of unlike what we see in Gaza today, there were plenty of nations that would have absorbed these people, right? To just go, leave, leave. And they didn't leave. So it was the intractable, doubled down, rebellious, morally corrupt people that stayed and did their children suffer
because of that? Yes. Just like in the flood, everyone died except for Moses and his family. But God is the God who gives life, and he's got the right to take it away. And he used the instrument of water in the flood and the instrument of Israel in the conquest of Joshua, to do his judgment.
Of course, there's one exception. And the one was Rahab.
Rahab herself.
That's right. Yeah. Because she believed. And as a result. So it wasn't like, oh, it doesn't matter what you believe or what you do. She attached herself to the people of Israel and the God of Israel, and she was delivered. And I think, what if what if all the Canaanites had done that, they would have been delivered as well? And so it's a hard question, there's no doubt about it. But and by the way, the word genocide was actually coined. It came into existence to describe
what the Nazis did to the Jewish people. That's the very first use of it. So.
Wow. Well, the second question she had is, according to the Bible, what are the limitations on fighting a war? And is Israel breaking those limitations today?
Now, I just want to be really clear. I know Shira, she doesn't believe Israel is breaking those limitations. She's looking to me to give her some answers because.
People are asking.
Her this, her this. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh.
Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say this has been a problem from the beginning of the church to say, okay, as Christians, how do we conduct war and is there a time for war? And of course, the Bible gives us a lot of history where there are times for war, and we need to do it justly. We need to have just reasons for going to war. We need to engage in war justly, unlike what we see in Gaza now hiding behind civilians. And we need to deal with war after it's over in a just
and proper way. So yes, I think Christian principles is Augustine tried to lay out, are always going to lead us to a particular kind of war. That's why there's war crimes and war courts. Because there's right and wrong in war. It's not like that old phrase, all's fair in love and war is not true, right? It's not. It's not all okay. And so war has to be done in a particular way. And yes, I think there's nothing Israel cannot be blamed for civilians being killed when
it's the enemies. It's Hamas hiding behind civilians. Right. They're to blame. Doubly so not only for starting this war on October 7th, but also for conducting it in an unjust way. Israel is just trying to do it the best it can. And I've never seen Modern Warfare done with as much warning and much care as Israel seems to be engaging. It doesn't mean they're perfect, but it does mean they're very careful to do this in a way that I think is is the most honoring way
you can engage in something bad and it's bad. War is bad, but it's just.
One of the most interesting things. I know this really because my son was an infantry soldier in the Israel Defense Forces, and he was trained to always respect the life even of your enemies, and they were trained to put themselves at risk before hurting civilians. That's something that's part of the the philosophy of of battle of the
Israel Defense Forces. And most people don't realize this. They hear things like the ICC, uh, indicting and calling for the arrest of Benjamin Netanyahu and also Yoav Galant, the former defense minister. And it's just not true. It is driven, I believe, that is driven by an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish animus, uh, by the ICC. Uh, and but in terms of what Israel is doing, this is what John Spencer from West
Point has said. No nation in the history of urban warfare has been more careful for civilians and has had such a low ratio of, a civilian to combatant death, as Israel has had in this war with Hamas in Gaza. So it is a different kind of perspective. But yeah, I do think that Israel is carrying out this battle justly, and it's a tragedy that Hamas is hiding behind civilians, putting their weapons in areas that where civilians live. It's a terrible consequence of war.
So are there are there scriptures that talk to this on either side? Like, I remember just war theory coming, um, being really big right after nine over 11 happened that there was a lot of conversation about what is just war and just war theory. Conversations were happening from believers in Jesus. There isn't.
A whole lot of verses that talk about just war.
But I will. I will give you a few. If you think about just causes, go to Psalm 82 and that would be a good passage to read and to study as far as just conduct. Deuteronomy 20. That's a passage that when you go out to war against your enemies. Dot, dot, dot. And then just conditions for peace. Second Chronicles 28 I think dealing with how they solved and ended this with the captives. I just think all of those are certainly passages that inform just war theory, which is just causes,
just conduct, just conditions for peace. And it's just something I have books on my bookshelf. There's just so much that could be said. It's an assembled argument, but there is plenty of material. It's just I can't point to chapter and verse of just having all of them in one place.
One verse, I think, is so imperative that we look at and I'm going to just mention, it's Romans 13, verse four. It says, for government is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God's servant, an Avenger who brings wrath on the one who does wrong. I think that's the the assault weapon was the the sword of that day. And, uh, and so that's the M16 of that day, you know,
and that's what they were using. And so it is to punish evildoers and to protect the innocent. That's the purpose of war in that in that setting, we're going to come back with more of your questions in just a bit. So don't go away. Thanks, Tricia, for bringing the mailbag in. This is Mike Fabros and Mike Radonich. Michael Radonich and Tricia McMillan. We'll be right back. Some claim Paul is the key person who took the message of the Jewish Messiah. Jesus made it into something Gentile.
But Paul is also the one who wrote, brethren, my heart's desire for Israel is for their salvation. Romans ten one Chosen people Ministries, one of our underwriters, wants us all to learn what drove Paul's passion for his own people. They're offering the book The Heart of the Apostle by Rich Freeman, free to all open line listeners. To get this exposition of Romans nine through 11, just go to our website, openline. radio.org. Scroll down to the link that
says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll be taken to a page where you can sign up for your very own free copy of The Heart of the Apostle. Paul. And we are back having a great time talking about the scriptures together. And we're going to go right back to the phones now and speak with, uh, let's see, it's Robert. Yeah. Listening on Wmbi, our flagship station in Chicago. Hey, Robert, welcome to Open Line. How can we help you?
Hi. Thank you, doctor, for taking my call. I was wondering what happened to the lost tribes of Israel.
Are there in my neighborhood in Brooklyn where I grew up. That's where they went. Uh, actually, there were also where I live in Chicago, in West Rogers Park. They're all over the. Here's the deal. The Lost Tribes were not lost. Uh, a lot of people think they were. But when the ten tribes went to Assyria and then Judah went to Babylon after Babylon had conquered Assyria, they kind of merged together. They all became known as Jews, Judeans and the tribes.
Then you can even see in the Book of Luke when Hannah, uh, meets the uh, uh, up with with, uh, the the Lord Jesus family. Right? Anna or Hannah the prophetess. She was from the tribe of Asher. Luke 236 says that. So obviously those ten tribes were not lost. They were still there. What happened is the records were lost when the temple was destroyed in A.D. 70. The only thing that has continued on and on is that we know who we are by word of mouth, by family to family,
generation to generation. We tell as Jewish people who a Levite is and who is a priest. You can see it in names like someone named Levi or someone named Levinson, or that's that's Levite or, uh, Cohen. Cohen. Yeah. Means priest. Uh, or Kohanim, uh, priests. Those are some of the names that you see Jewish people have. Uh, my name doesn't have anything like that, but I was raised to know that I was Ben Yitzhak Halevi. My name was. My Hebrew name is Avraham Moshe. Abraham. Moses of all things.
But then my. That's my real name. Actually. And Ben Yitzchak, son of Isaac the Levite. That was my name. And so I know that I'm a Levite because it comes from my father. And so those. That's the only thing kept because it was designed for, uh, when the temple is rebuilt, we would know who would serve in the temple. So that's that's what happened. They were not lost. They're not the British tribes or anything like that. Okay.
Okay, doctor. Thank you very much. Yep.
Uh, we just don't know who they are, but God knows. Just so you know, God does indeed know. Uh, and we're going to go to the phones again. Uh, and we're going to talk with Leslie in Pennsylvania, listening on the Moody Radio app and w VM. Welcome to Open Line, Leslie. How can we help you?
Good morning. Um, I'd like to ask another follow up question on Neil's question, if you don't mind.
Yeah, I'm just looking at I'm looking looking at your question. Leslie, I want you to say this is how I want you to ask a question. Pastor Mike, I want to ask you a question. I'm I'm not even going to answer this one. This is just for pastor Mike. Go ahead. Leslie.
Okay. Pastor Mike. Okay, so how can we apply this to the concept of organ donation?
Yeah. Well, here's the thing. God is going to remake every body. And certainly we think about us in eternity and a glorified body according to the original manufacturer's specs, according to the DNA, without any problems, without any corruption.
And that's going to call for, let's just say, two kidneys. Now, I know in life I have my cousin who gave her kidney to her husband, and I don't say, oh man, you don't want to live for eternity without a kidney because I know she's going to have a second kidney in her glorified body, so I don't have any problem with giving an organ for for benevolence. Now, if I say, hey, I want my corneas when I die to go to
someone who needs my corneas, right? That's an act of benevolence and kindness that's different than burning my body and pulverizing it in industrial blenders and then having it all in a in a bag of ash. I'm saying to myself, this is not that might be an act of love, that may be an act of of service. And I think that's that's fine. I would not I would not donate my body to to medicine my cadaver. Let's just say I would think let's leave that for other people.
But as far as parts of my body, if I choose to do that out of love and benevolence, I don't think it has any impact on what God is going to remake from what is left in our tombs or in our caskets at the end of time.
Yeah, I'll just throw in, I think at at the rapture, people's kidneys who have been donated won't be flying up in the rapture or anything like that. Uh, you know, the retinas being pulled out of someone's eyes that have been donated or anything like that, just not going to happen. I'm going to trust God that he he can handle all that. It's not something that that I think we have to be concerned about, but I appreciate the call.
Thanks for listening, everyone. That's the first hour. Keep listening. There's a second hour of Open Line on most of these stations. Remember, if your station doesn't carry Open line second hour, you can always listen on the Moody Radio app or get a podcast of it. Or you can listen online during the break. Check out our web page, Open Line radio.org. That page has links past programs. It has a question page. You can post your questions there.
It also has a link to our current resource or how to become a kitchen table partner or how to find the Chosen People resource. Our Bible study across America will continue in the second hour, so stay with us. Open line with Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Be right back.