Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 114. We're the Nelsons. I'm Lanette. And I'm Shaun. And in today's episode, rather than talking about the orphan train, which we were planning on releasing today, we actually are going to release a different conversation that we had with a really good friend who's an adoptee, and she asked that she could be anonymous in this conversation. But our conversation with her will revolve around the book, The Girls Who Went Away.
Yes. So The Girls Who Went Away, the full title is The Girls Who Went Away, the hidden history of women who surrendered children for adoption in the decades before Roe V Wade. And it was written by Ann Fessler, and Ann Fessler was adopted as well. And so she like felt compelled to start compiling these different experiences that different birth mothers had in this era right after Roe V Wade was passed. And so she talks to all of these different mothers who were linked with children for adoption,
just gathers their stories and shares them in this book. So it's just a collection of tons of miniature memoirs is how I would explain it. And it's so compelling. It's an incredible book. And I don't feel like there really needs to be a spoiler alert for this conversation, because yeah, our friend who we talked to shares a lot of her personal adoption experience, and weaves it in with some different elements from the book. But I don't think it's something
that you need to read the book before you listen with this episode. Yeah. And I loved listening to your conversation. And as I was going through and editing, I was like really intrigued by her story and actually the role that this particular book played in her reunion was very interesting. So look forward to hearing about that. Yeah, so we'll just jump into this episode. We're really excited
to present it. All right, we are here on the podcast with my friend who was adopted. We're going to keep her identity anonymous for this episode, but we are so grateful to have you here to share your experiences. And we're going to talk about the book, The Girls Who Went Away by Ann Fessler. I'm excited. Yay. Okay, so Ann Fessler was also adopted too, which I think is an interesting note. We'll talk about that more as we dive into this. All right, so as we talked about doing this
episode, you requested to do this book. Is there a reason behind that? Yes. Um, I discovered this book in kind of an amazing way and it was really pivotal for me finding my birth mom and finally having the courage to search her out because I was 49 years old. No, sorry, backup. I was 40 years old when I found the book and I, um, do you want me to tell you the story? Yeah, please do. I want to hear. Yes. Okay, so, um, when I was younger, um, I'm 59 now, but when I was, I found out I was adopted
when I was five and I was totally fine with it my whole life. Never had any like abandonment issues or never felt like my mom wasn't my mom. I just always loved my parents so much and never really dwelled on the fact that I was adopted. But as I got a little bit older, um, when I hit high school, I knew that I wanted to potentially find my birth mom someday or just have some more information.
And then again, like in college, it sort of hit me again and I got a little bit of information from my mom who went to the, um, to the adoption agency and that's kind of a whole other story. But by the time I was 40, I knew like I really, really want to find her. Um, but I'm scared. Like, I don't know if I should. I don't want, all I want to do is thank her. All I want to do is see what
I look like. I don't necessarily want to have a big relationship with her. And so we were actually our family, we have, um, five kids and we were taking a vacation to Nauvoo and a driving trip. And I had finished reading this book, um, just a random book. I don't even remember what it was. And we had like a four hour drive ahead of us and I was like, oh my gosh, I need another book to read. Like I was just in that stage of my life where I was reading a lot and we were in a little
town that had a Barnes and Noble and I was like, okay, need to stop the car. We're going to the Barnes and Noble and I'm such an indecisive person and I'm, it takes me forever to pick out a book. So I literally like said a little prayer before I went in, please help me just find a book fast, like, and the right book that I need to read. I want a meaningful book. Please help me just find
a quick book. Cause all the kids were in the car. It was just like a rushed situation. So I walk in the Barnes and Noble and I mull around for a second and I looked down at the table and there is the girls who went away. I'm like, what is this? And I mean, adoption wasn't even like my adoption and my search and all of that was not really on the top of my head at that moment. But when I looked down and saw the book and saw what it was about, it was like, this is my book. Like I knew, like I'm
going to buy this book. And I started reading it and I literally could not put it down. Like it completely changed my entire perspective about my birth mom. And I always thought, oh, she must have been such a selfless person. How wonderful that she would, you know, she found out she was pregnant and she would, she would, um, relinquish me for adoption because she wanted me to have a good life. You know, all of these things that I thought about adoption and why someone would,
would give a baby a, I know you don't say that anymore. What do you say? Um, agencies will usually say place a child for adoption, not give up. Yeah. So, um, that's a generational thing. I think. Yeah. That's anyway, how they said it. But so I started reading this book and I, and it was just so shocking to me how every single story, they're all stories written by women who relinquished
their babies before Roe versus Wade. They didn't have any other options. Their rights were really kind of just taken from them as soon as they announced that they were pregnant to a parent or a family member. And I, it just completely changed my perspective of like, what if this happened to her? What if she went through this? I've got to find her. Like I've got to find her and find out if she's okay. It like kind of became more about her than me. Yeah. Like I suddenly became like
really worried about her. So, but I don't think I would have pulled the trigger and started the search if it weren't for the book. Oh my goodness. That gives me chills. It really does. Wow. So you're right throughout this book, it is just heart wrenching to read these different accounts and experiences that these mothers had. So many of the mothers in the book told about how different staff in homes that they went to to give birth or other places that they went would use different
techniques like mind control kind of, right? Like that assign them pseudonyms and say they couldn't use their real names or they would isolate them and they couldn't be around other people. They couldn't see their family or their parents. They couldn't see their boyfriends, like the fathers of their babies. And they would tell them that if they didn't go through with adoption, that they were going to owe this facility thousands of dollars for staying and for the food
and for medical care. And so there was a lot of coercion that went on in these different accounts. Did any of these tactics stand out to you? Did you feel like any of these were like personally relevant and the experiences that you've seen? Absolutely. When I, so to kind of like give you the timeline, when I read the book, I think it was like about 2005. And I came home from that trip
and I knew that I was going to start a search. So I got on the computer, the internet was a little bit kind of newer than a little bit, you know, and I found registries for adoptees, put my name on all the registries that I could find, put my name on a registry for the birth hospital that I knew my birth mom went to. And the only reason I had that information that I even knew the hospital that she was where she had me was because there's just a lot of kind of little interesting things
that happened throughout this whole process for me. But when I was in high school, I dated a boy all through high school and his dad owned the law firm that handled my adoption. And so my boyfriend went sneaking through the files and found my paperwork and found the name that I was given at birth. So I didn't know if it was the birth mom's last name or the birth father's last name. But, and I also, and it also had the hospital name because I was born in Illinois and Illinois
was a state that had sealed adoption law, like really tight sealed adoption laws. And so that was really lucky for me that I had that information to go on. Yeah. Wow. So when I was doing the, like getting online and putting my name on these registries, hoping maybe there was a connection or maybe hoping my birth mom was looking for me too, at some point, that was just my place to start. And what happened after that was kind of miraculous. We, I got an email within like two weeks from this
woman and we'll call her Michelle. And she said that she had seen my name on this registry, looking for my birth mom and that she had it like a job helping people. Like she used to work for the state and she would help people search for their birth families. And did I want her help? Well, we were going through financial issues at the time. Had I had no money to spend on anything like that. And I was kind of skeptical. Like, I don't know, I just, somebody out of the blue online
wants to help me. I don't know. I was just kind of skeptical. And she's, she's like, no, I won't even charge you. It's fine. I just really like helping people. And so we started developing a relationship and it was just by emailing back and forth. And she started kind of searching out things because I had her name. Oh, I had not her name, but I had what I was named. I had her last name and I had the hospital and, and I had a little bit of other information that my, my adopted mom had gotten from
my, from the, from the agency, from the agency. So the agency that handled my adoption when I was 14, my mom went and because I was really curious at that point and got me this two page typed out a little bio of my birth mom, my birth dad, you know, five, four age 22. So she was 22 years old. She wasn't a teenager. Sorry, I'm going off on all these different directions, but I'm actually going to come back. I think I know where I'm going here. So anyway, so I had enough for her to go on
to start kind of going down the trail of finding her. And we got to a point where, and I didn't know where she was from. She only knew where I lived presently. And she said, okay, I've found, I need to order a obituary. I think it will lead us to, to, to your birth mom for sure. Like, but I need to order this obituary. And it's like 20 bucks. Can you send me a check? And I'm like,
sure, no problem. We'll send you a check. And I said, so what's your address? And she gave me her address and she's from this tiny, tiny, maybe population 200 farm town in Illinois, where my aunt and my cousin have lived my whole life, where I would go visit their farm. And my cousin was the postmaster. And I'm like, you're from this town. And how, like, do you know, and I gave her
my cousin's name and she's like, oh yeah, of course I do. She's the postmaster. So I just thought, like, what are the chances I get online, this random woman finds me and offers to help me, offers to help me for free. And she knows my family. She knows, like, it was so amazing to me. I even called my cousin who knows, who knew, you know, I was adopted and told her that I had found, like that I had met this person that knows her and that she was helping me. Anyway, it was just such
a, like, that's crazy coincidence. So anyway, we got to the point where she was pretty sure that she had my birth mom and her location and address and everything. And she said, I needed to just write a letter that was very straightforward, just info, like my name, the day I was born. If you'd like to have contact with me, I think you're my birth mom. This is how you can reach out to me. And said, just put a stamp on it. And here's the addresses to the couple of addresses that I think
might be her. And I chickened out. Like I completely, I couldn't do it. And so that was around 2005. And then 2000, it was like seven years, seven or eight years later, I, my son was having health issues to the point where I needed to find out if there was any thing health issue wise, like it became more not just wanting to find her. I needed to find her because I wanted to know medical history too. And also to clarify, like why I chickened out, I
realized like, this is so such a big deal. And I had five really busy young kids and I was having was had a really like busy church calling. And I just was like, I can't handle one more emotional thing in my life right now. And my mother-in-law was had cancer and I was taking care of her. So, so much was going on in my life. I was like, okay, now I have my birth mom's potential name. I could find her, but I can't do this. I'm it's too much. Like it's too heavy. I can't be in a
place where you're ready. Yeah. And I just realized as much as I want to be ready, I'm not ready. Yeah. And so I put it on the back burner. Seven or eight years later, I dug up the woman that helped me find her like old emails. It was kind of a miracle. I found her email address and she still was there. And I said, okay, here I am again. Like I think it was eight years later.
And I, and she said, well, you're in luck because Illinois changed their adoption, open adoption laws, and you can just write the state and get a copy of your birth certificate. And so long story short, I know we have an amount of time. I did the, did the letter thing, Senate return receipt, got a, got a message or got the return receipt back about a week later, her, my birth mom's husband signed for the letter. So I knew that she had it and I waited for her to
reach out to me and about a month went by and she hadn't reached out. And I was sitting in my car waiting for my son. He was in a doctor's appointment or like a therapy appointment for these medical issues that he was having. And I was like, I'm just going to call her. I, I had done like a people search and found what I thought was her phone number. And I just picked up the phone and called her. And I was thinking about the book and everything
that I had read. And I really wanted to know like what her experience was if I had an opportunity to talk to her. So I, anyway, I picked up the phone, called her husband, answer the phone. And he said, she's not here right now. Can I take a message? And, and I started to go into, oh, you know, gave him my name. I just, I sent her a letter. I don't know. You might know about this. And he's like, oh, she just walked through the door and handed me the phone and she answered the
phone. And I just said, hi, I'm, it's me. I'm the one that wrote you the letter. And she immediately said, I'm so glad you called. I've had the letter on my nightstand for a month and I've just been too scared to pick up the phone and call you. And before you tell me anything, I just want you to know, have, have you had a happy life? Have you had a good life? And I want you to know that I loved you and I didn't want to, to have to give you away. And, and I immediately started bawling
and was so relieved like that she had that perspective and that she was so kind. And we immediately hit it off and talked on the phone for about an hour. And she, she told me, well, I don't remember if it was that first conversation. I did find out about my birth dad, which was really exciting news to me. I said, you know, what, what about my birth dad? Like, is, do you know,
like, do you know where he is? And she was really embarrassed and flustered and said, well, I, I had gone on a, I graduated from college and my parents sent me and a friend to Europe for six weeks. And I was in Paris and I had a fling with a French boy. I'm like, wait, what? Like, say that again. And anyway, I found out my dad was, my birth dad was just a French romance in Paris. And so that was really meaningful to me because I've always been obsessed with France. I've always,
I'm an artist. And when I paint, I would listen to French music, like the French food, everything, like I've always been obsessed with France. So I felt like, okay, that makes sense. But anyway, so we started talking about, we ended up talking every, every month for about an hour at a time, like for three years, but she told me this is getting back to your original question. My gosh, the roundabout, she said that she, when she came home from that trip, she told her mom that she was
pregnant and she was from a fairly like upper middle-class family. She had one sister and her mom was extremely upset and didn't tell her dad. Her dad looked to be in his nineties and never knew that she had a baby. They sent her to, and she was 22. It's not like she was 15. She was 22. And she, and I think that's one thing that she, like, she felt really guilty about. Like I was 22 and I didn't have any rights. I didn't, like, they would not let me, there was no way I could
keep you. Like they just sent me away to, to go live with her sister in another state. And she was with her sister for a little while. And then she had to enter one of these homes for unwed mothers. Like it wasn't even a, they called it a hospital, but I think she was sent to like, it had a, like a hospital next to it, but this was strictly for all the girls that got pregnant out of wedlock and were sent to live in this home together. She said they could only call each other
by their first names. They couldn't know each other's last names and they had to do like cleaning and cooking and just helping take care of the place. They weren't there to take it easy. No, they were like the rest. And then, and she said they were just like, she said the counseling was just like a shaming session. It wasn't counseling. And it was, she said some, some girls didn't even get to see their babies. She said she got to hold me and, and they kind of forced her to sign the release
papers. Like she just didn't have a choice. So heartbreaking. I imagine. So how was this experience for you as a mother at the time that you met your biological mother? You were a mom. I imagine it was heart wrenching. Like it was so heart wrenching. And it just, it made me realize that I was a mother. I was a mother. I was a mother. I was a mother. I was a mother. I was a mother. And it just, it made me realize like just how wrong it was back then to like, they didn't,
you couldn't get birth control. And so unless you were married and your parents didn't explain anything to you. So taboo. Yeah. No, yeah. No, like girls barely even knew what was going on when they got their period, let alone like they get pregnant. And one of the stories I thought was so haunting was the girl who, who didn't like, who went to her mom and said, how are they going to take this out of me? She didn't even know it. She was 16 years old and didn't know how a baby
was born. Like she had no idea. And then her mom just shamed her like it's coming out the same way it went in, you know, and just horrendous treatment. So much trauma. Yeah. So much trauma. And so my birth mom had me and then she went back home to a dad who didn't even know what had happened. And they, they, her dad trying to semi keep this confidential. I don't know if she'll ever hear it or not. Um, I feel like I have to be careful because she is so very, very secretive about it.
She went on to have two sons and they don't know about me. She, she hasn't told them. And it's been now 10 years since I found her and she, she ended up cutting off communication with me because I did an ancestry DNA and so did her son, one of her sons. And we show up at the top of each other's lists as like a potential sibling, first cousin. Yeah. And she's just said, I can't, this is too much. It's too heavy. I can't, this is stressing me out. I can't talk to you anymore.
Well, and with the perspective of this book and reading all of these other women's accounts, I can see there was so much shame and so much stigma. I feel like it would take so much time. Yeah. She's, yeah. Through this and so much therapy and you don't even, I mean, they didn't get any therapy. They, she said she came home, they went on this trip to Brazil for nine months, because her dad was working there. And she said she sat on the beach and cried every day and her
mom never spoke of it again, like never, ever brought it up again. And her sister didn't either. And then when she told her sister that, that I had written her this letter and found her, her sister just said, you better be careful. She's probably looking for money. And she just like, that's heartbreaking. Yeah. Wasn't even supportive at all of the fact that it could be like a good
relationship and good closure for her. And, but still like it was still more just shame. So she's, that's why she hasn't, I think hasn't told her sons because she's just worried of how they will react. And I'm sure they wouldn't, I mean, they have the mindset of a, of, you know, a modern outlook. Not the 1950s, sixties. Yeah. Yeah. There were so many accounts that really struck me. The one that is coming to mind right now, there was one mother, she was married to the father. Did
you, do you remember this one? No, her mother-in-law signed the papers and I, I was like, dad, dying when I read this. I mean, they were all horrific. Yeah. They're all horrific. But yeah, just so unethical, just literally taking rights away from women who were adults. Yeah. And they made it impossible for these girls. Like I was going to say, they didn't, they couldn't get birth control. So, I mean, hormones are going to happen and girls are going to get pregnant, but they had,
they really had no choice. I mean, they couldn't, they, they only offered birth control to married people. Like, and well, and it was with husband's consent or something. Yeah. With the husband's consent and the church like was so involved as well. So crazy. And yeah, it was such a status thing like that you had to uphold your, your reputation and your place in society and you just tarnished the family. If, but yet, I don't know. It's really interesting. Cause I, I was just
visiting with my, my mom who's 91 now, and she was saying how glad she was. She grew up in the, in the fifties and you know, what a great time it was. And I said, yeah, except for the girls that got pregnant and had to be sent away. And she said, that's true. I had a friend in high school that got pregnant, but I still talked to her, but most people didn't. I'm like, wow, like that, that was, that was her generation. So hard. I remember other accounts like that, where people
would go back to school after, like as a teenager, right? You give birth and go back to high school and then you feel like this different person and nobody talks to you about anything that happened. If they talk to you at all, it's just, when I thought it was interesting too, like somebody was saying how like these families were so, they felt that people would say all of these mean things about them. Well, and that's what they were doing to their own children. Like they were doing the
thing that they were afraid would happen to them as a family. So sad. Yeah. You're afraid everyone's going to ostracize your child. And they're ostracizing their own child. It was so sad. It's heartbreaking. Yes. And I mean, luckily it seems like adoption practices have come a long way and we're doing better, but I feel like it's still so important to read about this. No, but it wasn't that long ago that this is how it really wasn't. Are we making sure that we're
working toward better practices continually? I do remember in the, it would have been in the 80s and I was a teenager. This was probably when I went to my mom and said, you know, I'm kind of curious about my birth mom. And I remember her taking me to a, it was called like a birth triangle meeting or something. It was like there were birth moms and there were people that adopted like adopted parents and there were adoptees. I think it was called the birth, like a birth
triangle. Some kind of meeting. Yeah. Meeting that we went to. And that was, that was just, you know, kind of a new thing. And that was in the 80s, which was only, you know, 20 year, not even 20 years after I wasn't even 20 years old when I went to that meeting. So at least like things had started to improve in my lifetime. Yeah. More connection between everybody. It's interesting. Did you go back or was that like the one time? I feel like we only went the one time.
But yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I feel like in adoption, there are so many misconceptions and you've talked about this, how a lot of the time in society, we look at adoption and assume that the mothers are like young and teenage moms, right? Or that's usually, and what Ann Fessler, the author of this book said was that of the women that she interviewed, the average age that they were when they had their baby was 19, which technically is a teenager, but that's an
adult. Yeah. 19 isn't, I mean, when you're 19, you think you, you are an adult. I mean, you are. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's not, it's older than you would think. Yeah. Yeah. So are there other misconceptions that you've encountered as an adoptee? I think, I don't know if this would fall into a misconception, but I think people assume that adoptees have like abandonment issues or,
and some do, like some really do. It's true, but I don't think everyone does. I think if, I think if you are a birth or if you're an adopted adopt, adopted parents, is that what you say? Anyway, yeah. Parents who adopt. As long, like I love the open adoption thing now. I love it. And I am just happy for the fact that I was told I was adopted. I know there was, there are even people still that exist. I remember I had a friend in college that said, if I ever adopted a child,
I wouldn't tell them until he was 18. Like that is the absolute worst, most damaging thing you could ever possibly do. And it implies that there's something wrong. Yeah. Like that you had to hide. Being adopted. Yeah. And just telling your children as young as possible and just making it a part of who they are and how they came to you and how important and special it is that they, this was the path that got them to your family and how important the birth mom is in the whole
process. And that she loves them. Yes. That it was a loving decision. I mean, I feel like now the decisions are even more loving. Like then I think like in my era, sadly, so many of these birth moms weren't given any choice at all. Like they weren't part of the process. Their parents just made the choice for them. And these horrible adopt, or birth, birthing homes and stuff. Yeah. Or unwed mothers.
But now at least like these women who realize that they are able to care for the child. And I think it's probably a really spiritual process. Like they realize that they are meant to have this child for another family. Like somehow. Like I can't even imagine like how hard and the sacrifice that that is. But, and a choice that they make to do that. It is so, so hard. But I was told like one thing, not told, pondered, and somebody said this and it just rang true to me.
That had my mom and dad been able to have children, they weren't able to. My spirit would have been born to them, was meant to come to them. Yeah. And so my birth mom like was just a way for my spirit to make it to my mom and dad. I would have looked differently had they physically had they had me, but my spirit would have been the same. And I always loved that. Like I love that. And I really do believe that. But I do feel a connection to my birth mom because
And I think that that's the goal with the adoptions, right? Like you see there's all of this love, there's all these connections and it's okay to have two families or three families, or you know, like it's okay to have. And it's not a threat to anyone. And I think that's a big misconception that if you have an open adoption, that you're somehow vulnerable to your child loving the birth mom more than you or having a connection to them more than they have to you.
And I think that's common fear that we can. Yeah. And I think that's, that's a misconception. Yeah, absolutely. So do you feel like reading this book changed any of your understandings or how you saw adoption? Um, it just made me so incredibly grateful for my birth mom and everything that she had to go through. I love the adoption process. I think it's I think it's so incredible. Like my parents weren't able to have children and they adopted me and my
brother and we became a family and I'm forever grateful for that. And luckily my birth mom was able to go on and have a life and have children and get married. And, but the trauma that she had to endure and the still the shame and guilt that she carries around is just a, it's just a, it's just a product of her generation. And I'm really, really grateful that things have changed and have gotten so much better and hope it continues to improve. Yeah, me too. Absolutely. So I have a quote here
from Anne Fessler, the author of the book. She said, mothers who are considering an adoption plan must be able to do so without coercion and with full knowledge of services and support available to them. I think most people imagine a very young teenager when they picture a surrendering mother. We can talk about this, but the majority of surrendering mothers today are in their 20s.
Only about a quarter of them are in their teens. Women must be given adequate time following the birth of their child to decide whether or not to follow through with the adoption and reasonable time afterwards for consent. And we've been talking about how we feel like the adopting community has gotten better. And I feel like that's what she's highlighting here too. Do you feel
like there's any areas where we still need to improve? Well, gosh, I don't know. I do. I have a friend who's adopted four children and one of the children, one of the babies she had for three months and the birth mom came back and decided to take the baby back. And that for her was just like losing a child and really, really hard. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know like,
because you have to honor the birth mom and her right to maybe change her mind. Yeah. But I don't know what the right time period is because you want the newborn to bond right away with the adopted. And yeah. And ultimately that's what we want our focus to be, right? On the child and like, how can we help them? That's the best option. Yeah. I think having like the best of the best counseling available to the birth mom while she's pregnant and going through the process. So
she is as sure as she possibly can be. So no one gets a baby ripped out of their arms, you know, after they think it's going to be theirs. Yeah. That's so hard. Is there anything in the book that really surprised you? Well, I remember the first time I read it, it all surprised me. Like, I just, I don't even think I had any idea. Like I really had no idea. I think it's so valuable for people to, to read and understand what, what it used to be like, what women had to go through.
So, yeah. And the author, so we talked about how she was adopted and she said that she waited to find her own birth mom until after she wrote the book. She didn't want that like, uh, influencing how she went about these interviews and collaborating them and putting them together. And I thought that was so interesting. Yeah, that is, that must've been hard for her to, to put it on the back burner and to comply and then to find like, to find out what her story was going to be, because not all,
not all reunion stories have a happy ending. It's true. I mean, so you don't know what your, what kind of, what can of worms you're going to open. And especially the, the women that did go through so much trauma and shame and guilt and never healed from that and have, you know, we're still carrying probably some mental health issues or addiction issues or whatever that they had to turn to to deal with that pain. Yeah. And I don't think any of these mothers seem to really receive
help. No, after place. Yeah. Right. Like they weren't, yeah, mine didn't, no one was checking up on them or yeah, helping make sure that they were. No, she had to like, you know, like pretend she was a completely different person in front of her parents, but nothing ever happened that she didn't give birth to a living human being that was that she got to see for five minutes. And and she had to just never talk about it again. Like, how do you do that? That would just eat
away at your soul. I get it. I don't know. So wrong, but I do feel like for me as an adoptive parent, as I read this book, I was, I mean, I feel like it was already empathetic to worry birth mothers, but I feel like it changed it and just like opened these floodgates. Oh yeah, me too. Yes. Just compassion and feeling so protective and wishing I could go back. I know. Yeah, I know. I wish, I really wish my birth mom could read a book, but she's 80 now and I think it's too,
honestly, I think it's too painful for her. Yeah. Like I think it, she wouldn't have anyone to sit and cry through it with, you know, and deal with all of those big feelings. So. Well, and I feel like that is a big takeaway for me too, that we all need so much support and help and help me go forward and be better supports to others. Yeah. And be, you know, I think a lot of people judge the open adoption still to this, like that's something that our society's dealing with
now. Like, you know, why would you let the birth mom be part of your life? There's so much stigma still. Yeah, that we have a long way to go on that one. You know, we've luckily we've overcome the stigma of being an unwed mother, but let's work on the open adoption thing. Yeah. Absolutely. So how did you feel about the book overall? It's one of my top five books of all time. Yeah. For me. Yeah. And I think it's a really interesting read for anyone, whether adopted or not.
Well, and that literally changed your life, right? It literally, like I was led to that book. So I would find my birth mom because I don't think, I mean, I wanted to, I thought about it, but that was like, okay, I've got to do something. I've got to, I've got to find her so I can potentially like give her some closure and let her know that I'm okay. Yeah. So well, it gives me goosebumps. It's such a beautiful story. All right. Thank you so much for sharing
your experience. Sure. Anything else you want to talk about? I will say my birth mom, even though we don't talk anymore, we text a tiny little bit, like maybe once a year, I'll wish her happy birthday or happy mother's day. And she lost her husband two years ago and he had dementia. And at one point I reached out with a text and said, you know, how are you doing? I know it's so hard. And it was all during COVID and all of that. And she said, this is, she said, it's horrible.
This is the second hardest thing I've ever done. I'm like, and that just made me cry. That's wrenching. Wow. Yeah. So it's meaningful for her to say that. Yeah. Thank you. Sure. So appreciated hearing your experiences. Hopefully it made sense. I didn't rattle too much. You're so good. Thank you. Well, we wanted to give a huge thanks to our dear friend who was willing to share her experience. And I hope this episode didn't disappoint. I thought that her experience, some of the
takeaways that she shared and things that I learned were just super impactful. So I'm so glad we got to to meet with her and for her to share her experience. Yeah. This was a really impactful discussion to have and just so meaningful. It was incredible to hear this person's adoption experience and reunification experience and how this book influenced it. And I really enjoyed this book too. This book is one that I've been wanting to talk about and share on the podcast for a couple
of years. It's I think one that everyone connected to adoption should read. Like it is the first book I recommend when I talk to adoptive parents who are scared of open adoption. I think it's so important to give these insights into real birth mother experiences with closed adoption to help understand what it looked like before open adoption was common practice. I think it is meaningful for adoptees and birth parents as well. And for social workers, it's just such a good book.
So I highly recommend this book. If you haven't read it, please do. I personally like one of my huge takeaways was how I know we saw a long way to go, but how much adoption has changed in some positive ways with the focus on open adoptions. I just remember on our date night shortly after recording this, we were talking about how difficult it would be for, you know, in this person's circumstance, her birth mom's dad didn't know ever in his entire life that his daughter
had a child place that baby. He had this grandchild out there. Yeah. Well, and, and just as a parent, wanting to help my children thrive and succeed and not knowing something so like such a huge part of her life experience at all, like for his entire life, I just feel like that's just such a shame. And I am glad that we're in a place where there's less stigma and there's still growth, but you're right. It's so different. That's one thing as you read this book and these experiences, it's like,
Oh my goodness. Thank goodness the world is changing and we're getting more compassionate. I think, I hope. Yeah. Well, I loved, I loved this episode. I'm so grateful for her and again, for her sharing with us. Me too. And I feel like it just really reinforces the importance of listening and having an open heart to hearing heart experiences and maybe experiences that challenge what we thought we knew or understood to help us have a fuller picture and understanding of others. So anyway,
thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project. We'll be back next week with another book club episode. We've enjoyed doing these for national adoption month. Our next episode will be the one we were planning on for this week. We had some technical difficulties. So next week we'll be talking about orphan train rider by Christina Baker Klein. Yeah. We're excited for next week's conversation too. Thank you so much for listening.