S3-E10 Interview: “I Married a Narcissist” Interview with Relationship Expert Dana S. Diaz

This means that every other episode will be an interview for the foreseeable future . This week we are featuring an interview with Dana Diaz , who suffered a 25-year marriage to a narcissist that originally aired in January 2024 .

Today , dana is free , has remarried , written three books , achieved national attention for her work with displaced and sometimes unhoused women , and who is now freely sharing her insights and knowledge about how to spot and avoid anyone with a narcissistic personality and , if you're already involved , how to break ties with that person .

Dana has an active social media presence as well as a website that you should check out . Links to all of her resources are included in the show notes for this episode . Fyi , we've already aired two episodes that feature amazing interviews that we have conducted over the past several months .

If compelling interviews are your jam , check out episode six of our podcast , where we air a remastered version of our conversation with Annie Temple , an erotic entrepreneur who openly discusses her many roles in the sex industry , and her book Annie Temple's Business Bible , which focuses on teaching other erotic entrepreneurs how to stay safe , identify their business brand

and how to manage their money .

And if you're interested in learning about what it's like to belong to a cult , or , more specifically , the Institute of Basic Life Principles , the same religious organization that the Duggar family espoused in the 19 Kids and Counting reality TV show , check out episode 8 , which features our interview with Amanda Briggs , who talks about what it was like growing up in

the IBLP and the repression she faced as a female child and young adult . We're going to start our interview in just a moment . Just

a moment . Did you know that you can support us by supporting who Gives a Crap ? A company that really does give a crap ? We've been a loyal customer of WGAC for five years . They produce the greenest toilet paper and paper towels on the planet , have a microcarbon footprint and donate 50% of their profits to help underdeveloped countries safely manage human waste .

Fyi , I recommend the bamboo toilet paper . It's three-ply soft and , because bamboo is a grass , you're helping to preserve our forests . Please give a crap by clicking on the sponsor's link in our show notes and go even greener , starting today . We have a very special guest today for our interview Dana S Diaz .

Dana is a relationship expert who once was married to , and endured , a full-blown narcissist . Hi , dana , how you doing ?

Please tell our listeners a little bit about your background , who you are and why you're so interested in this particular subject .

I just have , unfortunately , had lifelong experience with abuse , primarily at the hands of narcissists , and so I'm using that knowledge and that experience now , you know , to try to make good of it and to hopefully allow other people to learn from my mistakes and from the things that I learned along the way , because certainly I think as victims , we think things

will never change and that you know our circumstances are so dire and how do we get stuck in them . But sometimes you just have to look at it from the outside , and now that I am on the outside of it , you know I can certainly offer that perspective to those that are still in it .

And now they say there's a spectrum , which I do agree with , and I always say that I describe it as kind of like a tumor , like you can have a benign tumor that's there , that doesn't bother you , and these are the narcissists that you see on social media that are taking pictures of themselves all the time and posting them , but honestly , they really do look

as good as they think they do , so you can't really hate them for that . But then on the other side , you have those malignant tumors that cause you problems . They might even kill you , and those are , unfortunately , the narcissists that I have dealt with in my life .

And these are the narcissists that comprise over 20% of our prison population in the US and they're very dangerous . When you see domestic violence or watch true crime shows like 48 Hours , these are , you know , more times than not , these are the more extreme , those malignant narcissists .

It gives them that sense of , like I said , on a very basic level , that sense of superiority and importance that they don't otherwise feel , Because really it stems from a deep-seated insecurity . They don't feel that level of self-worth inside themselves , so they seek it outwardly . It's just that they do it in very dangerous ways and obviously unhealthy ways .

so stupid . One of the things that I know I want to learn from our interview today , and I'm sure many of our listeners do as well , and that is why is it that smart people , very smart people oftentimes are in relationships that are destructive and negative and they put up with so much they seem to even just put on their blinders and act unaware of it .

How can you explain that ? It baffles me . Obviously I wouldn't be asking .

But you hit on something really important and I know for myself I made a very bad decision , obviously , in choosing the first man that I married . I made a very bad decision , obviously , in choosing the first man that I married , whom I spent 25 years way too long with .

But it stemmed from exactly what you had said , because in my childhood my mother married an abusive narcissist . He was only abusive to me because I wasn't his biological child , but the verbal abuse , the attacks almost every single day and I'm talking from the time I was a little girl , four or five years old .

He would tell me I shouldn't have to pay for you to be clothed and sheltered and fed . You're not even my child . And he did call me stupid and I was incompetent and he would say nobody's ever gonna love you , you're not worth my time , I mean . And then the actions followed .

So , even though I knew better and I was a tenacious little thing , let me tell you I stood up for myself because I knew what he was doing was wrong and I could see the way other you know friends of mine were being treated by their parents , that I knew I was being mistreated , but see , my mother looked the other way or my mother would excuse or enable or

just be very tolerant of him . Oh , that's just how he is , and maybe if you didn't upset him so the blame was always shifted back to me that I was the problem .

And when you hear that so often , even if you don't believe it , at some point you do internalize it , especially if you're a child , and that carries with you , because most adults that are in toxic romantic relationships as adults well , not even romantic relationships , actually , I'll take that back .

You can have toxic friendships relationships actually , I'll take that back . You can have toxic friendships . You can have these , you know narcissistic relationships at work in your community and in so many aspects you tolerate it because that's what you know , that's what you're familiar with , because it happened in your childhood .

So oftentimes , more times than not , I am finding that if you're in a situation as an adult , you experienced it as a child .

How do you spot them before you get involved ? Because , let's face it , when you first meet them , they are so charming .

So I mean I knew instinctively oh no , I know this type not interested . But you know , no , we are not attracted to . You know men who run around with butcher knives and disheveled hair . We don't think that's what we're getting into .

You know , even Ted Bundy , the serial killer , was handsome and charming and women were drawn to him and he went home every night to the same woman and her little girl and the little girl just absolutely adored him . So these are people that they are very selective about who they prey upon .

Even in my circumstance in childhood , I know that when my mother and her husband had their own child , eventually my brother had a completely different childhood experience than I did , because he was treated like any child would want to be . He was loved , encouraged , nurtured , supported . It was just me , you know .

So I mean , they definitely target people , but things to look out for , certainly what you had said before . If anybody demeans you , insults you , puts you down in any way , I mean , obviously this isn't a nice person , obviously if they're going to do that to you .

But this is somebody who's definitely trying to seek some kind of like you said an outward expression or some kind of superiority over you . Because if they have to diminish you to feel better about themselves , you probably don't want to submit yourself to any kind of relationship or friendship like that the other things to look out for .

If they're very arrogant or aloof , dismissive of your achievements and we see this a lot , especially in the workplace or in friendships with jealousy Jealousy is not an attractive quality , but when somebody can't even just say good job when you have achieved something , it's because they're jealous .

And when people are jealous , it's unfortunate that they will try to take you down in some way . Maybe they'll try to take credit for your future accomplice or try to again put you in a situation where others might think less of you or diminish your success in some way . They're just trying to put you down .

There's enough room in this world for everybody to achieve whatever it is they're looking for , whether personally , professionally or otherwise . There is no need for that . We can all rise to the top of the mountain . We can all climb there . There's no need to kick people down .

And those are the people you want to look out for , because they're only out for themselves . They're never going to truly care about you , no matter what they say or do . And again , these are parents , these are friends , these are coworkers , these are maybe other family members , these are your romantic partners .

They could be your children , sadly , but you , just you know you have to watch out for yourself and it's not a selfish thing to do that . It took me 45 years to figure out that it's okay to put yourself first , it's okay to have self-respect and to have enough self-love to say you know , I deserve better than .

upset about that . It is a strange pattern that seems to repeat itself .

I mean , they know you , they know how to manipulate you , they know what to say and what to do to get you to react in the way that fulfills their ego . So why should they have to go out and start over and learn somebody else from scratch ? They already have you on the line and they know how to lure you back .

Because the thing about narcissists is that people think it's all bad all the time . I did not stay with my ex-husband because it was that horrible . It was horrible more of the time than not , but there were good moments , there were nice things that he did and nice things that he would say because he could .

Like you said , they feel when you are kind of pulling away or when you're onto them or when you're kind of doubting the validity or the truth in what they're saying and doing and what their motive is . And you know you have all these things . You're always questioning everything .

Once you figure them out and they sense that , so then they again , they know you , so they'll say and do whatever they have to do to lure you back into the lair , you know , to get you back on their side . So you won't leave . But if you do , if you do finally wake up , they can also sense that change In my situation .

It was very odd because once I realized that what was happening and that I couldn't do it anymore , it was actually making me physically ill . I became autoimmune and developed a lung disease because of what doctors call the chronic stress of living in that situation . Yeah , it was bad , it was awful .

And when I finally just decided that I can't do this anymore , I consulted with an attorney privately . He had no idea about it , but he could sense the change in me and he . I think there were many times in our relationship that I was done , that was it , I was done , I was done , I was done , but then I wasn't .

But this last time there was a difference , because I did realize that self-respect and that self-love . I decided I was going to put myself first . And there's a difference between that and the being done , that or the thinking you're being done . So he sensed that this was a very different change and I think he knew it was really the end .

So he actually , while I was at work and our son was at school , he actually moved out . He had to be the one to leave me because he couldn't withstand the insult and the offense to his ego to have to tell people that I had filed for divorce or that I had left him .

So yeah , but it did me a favor and it was sad because I remember coming home and noticing things being gone and then going to the bedroom and seeing his bed completely stripped . I mean , he didn't even leave a pillow or a sheet . He took everything and I should have been crying , I should have been devastated that after 25 years , that was it .

But all I could think was thank goodness .

I found out that I suffered the worst two cases of domestic violence in our marriage after the actual divorce , and that is very common . Because they do want to hold on . They don't want to let you go , but eventually , if they find somebody else and realize that they have to move on , they will , but they still hold on . I mean , it's been .

This will be four years this year since our divorce and he has had somebody living with him for I want to say about three years now , maybe a little less than that , but he has left me alone for the most part . But every now and then I'll get a text or an email which is so insulting . It offends me that he could treat his new well .

I guess I shouldn't be surprised because of the way he treated me , but you know he'll send me these messages saying that it'll always be me and I'm the only one and all this and you know , I think , well , you had 25 years to prove that and you blew it .

But I mean how awful for this poor woman that's living with him , you know , with with her children , and that she probably has no idea that he's going behind her back , just like he had gone behind mine , you know , with other women , and that's how they roll .

They always want to have somebody on the hook because they need to know that they always have that hook in you . They can't ever let you go . They're not never going to release you .

Do you agree that these are warning signs or am I off base ?

He was

oh , there was so much . I mean he swung a crowbar at my head . That should have caused me to grab my kid and go . So many things . Yeah , there were so many times I should have , but I stayed . And why you want to talk about making dumb decisions when you're a smart person and I think there's so many reasons why people stay . It sounds like gosh .

How could you stay in that situation ? But even in a normal marriage that's falling apart . If you think about it , it's not as easy . You don't always have the financial ability to just walk away . Where are you going to go ? Where are you going to live ? Do you have children ?

Something I don't talk about , or I haven't spoken about , is we lived on a farm , so we also had animals that were cows , pigs , chickens , that were dependent on us . I had a bloodhound that had epilepsy and she would have sometimes a dozen grand mal seizures every day . I couldn't just go anywhere with her , I couldn't take her to a shelter .

I wasn't going to put her down either and make her suffer because he was an indecent human being , your kid . Once my son came along , I felt like I had to stay , keep the family together .

You think you're doing this noble thing , sacrificing your happiness so that your children can be in a home with both parents , even though , looking back , it would have probably been better for us to leave and that he wasn't exposed to all that he was .

So I mean , I think everybody has those basic reasons and then , when you're in a situation like I was in and some people are in much worse situations you are fearing for your life .

Because the last few years , part of my problem was that I'm not sure how we got from point A to point B , but he got to the point where he was actually telling our neighbors that he was planning to kill me and he was sending me death threats , death threats , and there were definitely even unspoken actions that he enacted to make sure that I knew where my

place was , and so there was a fear . I thought , okay , even if I do go , am I going to be safe ? Or am I going to always be looking over my shoulder , which you know I often did , even after things were over ? So there's a lot , there's a lot of reasons .

So I don't know if it's so much that we make bad decisions , but I think we make decisions , when we're in those situations , based on emotion versus intellect , because , you know , now I can look at people in that situation .

They reach out to me and I'll say but there's a shelter , there's even , you know , some communities even have places that will take your animals for you and care for your animals until you're back on your feet . Nobody is going to let your children go without your feet . Nobody is going to let your children go without a meal .

Nobody is going to let you go unclothed . There are so many resources , no matter where you are in this world , that there are people that will take care of you and make sure to help you and make sure you're safe . And had I maybe realized that , intellectually I would have left much sooner with my son .

But I think when you're in that situation and again they lure you , you have these moments where you're questioning is it me ? Because why does everybody else in the world think they're so generous and charitable and funny and charming and you're the only one who sees this monster ? And they , they do . They gaslight you and make you really doubt your person .

Your entire perception of reality . I mean and that's essentially where I got is that I started keeping a notebook just to make sure I knew what was what , because I I , he was making me feel like I was completely denuded . I mean , they love to call us crazy . If you're with a narcissist , I don't care what relationship .

I think it's kind of funny that they just go to crazy and I'm like okay , can you be more specific ? Pick a disorder which mine had me so convinced early on in our relationship that I was bipolar that I actually went to a psychiatrist and came home with two medications for bipolar disorder .

I took those medications for 17 years and they numbed my emotions , they numbed me , which is another reason that I stayed so long , because I just kind of subdued myself and dismissed my own feelings .

Because it was me , I was the problem , I wasn't seeing things correctly , and it's unfortunate that it took after the end of that relationship , after the divorce , I had a follow-up appointment , like I did every year , with that psychiatrist and he said I feel terrible . But he says I didn't know you were going through all that .

And he says now I see you , you were just having normal reactions to abuse , but you were still enjoying those moments in your life with your son or with family or whatever where you could be joyous . So it wasn't an up and down . He's like be joyous , so it wasn't an up and down . He's like you were just being abused .

So I haven't been on those medications . He retracted the bipolar diagnosis but it's so sad to think that I allowed this . Compared to me and it sounds terrible to say , but my ex was not very well-educated and came from a very small town and just he wasn't very bright all around .

But it's sad to think that I allowed him to be the authority on my medical and mental health status and on my life in general , when he really had no education or any way to back that up with any kind of validity .

So that's part of what I try to explain to people that are in these situations that I get the fear my life was on the line too , and when you really think your life is at risk . You will do things and say things that you would never do otherwise .

But at the same time , I had thought for so long that he had been holding me in our marriage , that he had been binding me with these restrictions and holding me down , and I realized , when I finally realized , what was going on . I'm like you know what . It was me . It was me .

That's in a much more severe situation and I have heard some where it might be safer to stay and I'm so sad for those people . But more of the time than not , I feel like there's enough reason , justifiable reason and enough ability to wake up and get out in some way . It does require planning .

It does require some kind of gauging the mood and the situation to make sure you can do it in the best way possible , especially if there's children involved . But it's possible and it's so much better on the other side .

you , when I say success , that's whatever success means to somebody . Most people relate that to accomplishments or jobs or whatever . But I mean to me , none of that . I don't care how much money you make or what kind of car you drive or whatever .

To me , success is where I am now , which is miraculously healthier and amazingly happier , and I am remarried to a longtime friend and I never thought honestly , that I could ever have a healthy romantic relationship after everything I've been through and coming into it with triggers and the PTSD and anxiety and hypervigilance and all of these things that have basically

allowed me to survive up to now . But I am in a pretty healthy marriage . He's very gentle and patient and understanding , mind you . But I am actually surprised at myself . I feel that I have succeeded , actually surprised at myself . I feel that I have succeeded . Am I the richest person ever ? No . Do I have some fancy job title ? No .

Do I have a Nobel Peace Prize ? No , but I am successful and I can look at myself and feel that way now , whereas five years ago even I would not have even entertained the idea that I was worth or deserving of anything of any such positive thing , because I had allowed that man to diminish me to nothing .

I believed that I was the nothing that my stepfather thought I was , that my mother thought I was and that my ex-husband thought I was . And now I realize , no , I'm actually okay . I'm actually a much better human being than they led me to believe that I was .

And , yes , I am thriving because , now that I know my worth , it is just opened so many more doors to me and it has allowed me to be choosier and recognize the people around me , because I don't want to associate with people like that who are going to bring me down . I always say it's kind of like being a flower in a garden .

I don't want to be in dry soil that starves me and makes me droop , and no sunshine and it's always dark . I want to be in that nice , moist soil full of nutrients that are making me grow and blossom and be colorful and , you know , put my face up into the sunshine .

That's what we should all want , and I don't care who you are and what your income level is or educational level . Everybody is deserving of a beautiful life , whatever that means to you and whatever it is . Everybody deserves that .

We just got to sometimes get back up and wipe our knees off and wipe the tears from our face and keep moving forward . But yeah , I would just suggest to people , if you go to my website danasdiazcom , I do have a quiz on there to determine if you're in an abusive situation with a narcissist .

You can kind of get an idea from the yes and no questions that are asked in that quiz what kind of a relationship that you're in .

I also have a blog on there , just some things that sometimes come to mind that might resonate with somebody , and I also have my links for um to buy my first book , which is about my marriage , um , and you can sign up on the email there as well , because I will have two more books coming out later this year .

One will be about my childhood and that whole situation , and then I will have the sequel to the book that's out about my marriage , where I talk more about where I am now and what I've dealt with .

You know kind of the journey in having that more , that healthier relationship that I never thought I could have , and what love looks like for somebody that's come out of you know a more traumatic life prior to that . So there's a lot of things there . Facebook and Instagram links are on my website as well .

I post content every day that might be funny and make you laugh or might give you some tips for self-care healing . Sometimes it's just statistics about narcissism or abuse , but I try to provide a little of everything , for there's so many things that to think about in this realm .

So I absolutely encourage everybody to reach out and follow me and see what I can provide for you and definitely message me if there's anything you have questions about .

But once they are out later this year , that will be one of the next steps for me , because I definitely think that there's a lot of people , no matter what their trauma is , that just need a little direction or just even sometimes need somebody to get them , because you really don't get this narcissist abuse thing unless you've really been through it .

And then you realize well , wait a second , all these things have happened and it's like they're all downloaded with the same software because they all do and say the exact same things . It's a little creepy .

We're taking you on a road trip , so we'll see you then . Please follow us if you haven't already Hit the notification button , so you'll be aware when our next episode drops . And in the meantime , always remember you know we love you . We'll talk soon .