The Biden Presidency

on your own schedule. I'm Stephen Shragas. In the two years since his inauguration, President Joe Biden has had a lot on his plate. The COVID nineteen pandemic, threats of an economic recession, the war in Ukraine, the Afghanistan withdrawal, tensions with China, a divided and antagonistic Congress, not to mention controversies surrounding classified documents, and investigations targeting his son.

It's hard in the moment to assess how well he's handling it all beyond just looking at his poll members. So we called in an expert. Professor Jeffrey Angel has given One Day University Talks on several presidents, from FDR to George HW. Bush. He's the founding director of the Center for Presidential History at Southern Methodist University and has

written several books on American foreign policy. President Biden is the oldest sitting American president in history, and as Jeffrey explains, that means Biden understands how Washington has changed over the last half century. President Biden has one of the longest pre presidential records of any man who have ever upheld the obal office. There's two aspects of that, of course. First, he got started very young, and now he's also very old.

And he was actually elected Senator at the age of twenty nine, before he was even eligible to sit in the Senate. Now it happens to be that the election was at when he's twenty nine, he turned thirty, which is a legal requirement age before the day who was supposed to be sworn ant. So there's nothing funny going

on here. But he's just a remarkably young man and he spent all those years in the Senate from that time up until two thousand and eight, when Barack Obama chose him to be his vice president as an old hand, as a Washington expert, as a man who really understood how Washington worked. Which of course was useful for President Obama, who had only been in the Senate for a few years of that time, at least politically, to give the impression that he had an experienced hand coming with him.

It really gives you a real good sense of how long President Biden had been there. He had been chair of the Judicial Committee, he had been on the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Senate for years. He was known as somebody who was willing to reach across the aisle, frankly, in a way that we don't see much in the

Senate anymore. You could make a really good accusation against Senator or Biden in his last years that he was part of the problem that Washington had become too chummy, that senators, you know, essentially lived too long and worked too long together and had lost the fire in their bellies to fight out being issues. Frankly, I think today we'd like a little bit less fire in our Senate. But he was known during his time as being a man who was particularly interested in trying to be collegial

now that oftentimes backfired. He most famously, was, of course, chair of the Judicial Committee when Anita Hill and Clarence Thomas had their famous controversy over his actions when Clarence Thomas was being reviewed for nomination for the Supreme Court, and Biden historically did not come off looking good at that point, because you know, he chaired a committee which was all men that they were asking inappropriate questions of

a woman. But all of which is to say that gives a hauswle a sense that Biden was very interested throughout his career and at that moment in particular of trying to be even handed. Let me ask you, you're sort of an expert on leadership as well. I've heard you speak on that a few different times. Can you say something about Biden's leadership style, and while you're at it, his overall personality. You know, his overall personality is kind

of uncle Joe or Grandpa Joe. And effectually it has always been that way, even when he was a younger man. You know, he speaks as an normal American middle class or blue collar worker would in a sense, he's never lost, as he would say, the Squinton where he grew up. He's never lost Delaware a small state feel where everybody knows everybody, and he likes to tell anecdotes. Now oftentimes those anecdotes go awry. They always have his entire career.

One of the fascinating things for me watching Biden now, of course, when age is a critical element of how we understand his presidency, is how many people have focused on the fact that he misspeaks as an old man. He always misspoke as a young man for two reasons. First, because you know, some people make gaffs. I like to challenge all of my friends who like to criticize any politician for speaking, to have their words transcribed over the course of twenty four hours and see how well they

stand up. But secondly, also an interesting aspect of President Biden's personal life, he actually had a severe stutter as a very young man and worked extremely hard hours spun hours, spun hours of solo labor to overcome that stutter. So every now and then when he has a gaff, one can still see that he is a person who has to think about forming words in a way perhaps a someway without a stutter does not, so it shows the sign of his perseverance. You know, he also likes to

be fun. He drives a convertible corvette, likes wearing aviat or sunglasses. He likes going biking. His favorite treat in the world is ice cream. I mean, you know how damning can a man be if his favorite treat is ice cream. Let me ask you, Jeff, We're now two years into his presidency. How would you sum up the Biden presidency in just two or three sentences? Remarkably significant, remarkably accomplished, remarkably misunderstood. I think President Biden first and foremost,

his main goal throughout his campaign was to win. Now, that's what most campaigns are about, but he took it as a personal challenge, and there's a lot of hubris in this as a personal challenge to defeat Donald Trump, who he saw as an existential threat to the nation. I mean, most people run for president and if their opponent wins, they say, well, galli, I guess we're going to be out of power for four years. Very rarely doesn't man run for president and say if I lose,

we're going to lose democracy. That was what President Biden said on the campaign trail. So just his winning alone, in a sense, could give him the sense of accomplishment that I saved the nation, or at least postponed the

death of democracy for four years. That's his view of things, to be sure, But I think we also need to remember that President Biden has accomplished a remarkable out I would put his legislative accomplishments up against almost anyone's since Franklin Roosevelt or Lyndon Johnson for the first two years of his presidency. We're not going to see anything like that for the second two years, of course, because now the House of Representatives is controlled by the opposing party.

But if you think about the accomplishments in terms of the Build Back Better Plan, infrastructure, reworking healthcare, yet again, they are remarkable. But one critical thing is that Minden's misunderstood,

and I think he's misunderstood for two particular reasons. First, because we have a particularly bifurcated and siloed media environment at this point in American history, where people essentially only listen to the news that they signed up to here, and so people only know the information that they get. And this story that the administration told, and this is the most important point, the story that the administration told threats first two years was actually one of inability to

accomplish things. Because they were trying to accomplish things that were really big legislatively, and that we're in constant negotiation and getting watered down, so that you know, President Biden wanted an infrastructure bill that was several trillion dollars larger than what he actually got. So the narrative for the American people was that for months and months and months, you've been trying to pass something and now you've got something really small. Well, the truth is it's one of

the biggest bills in history. So it's really an interesting way in which, you know, if we had just put Americans into a time capsule and not had to have them watch and listen to the sausage making in the Senate with Senator Mansion and Senator Cinema and others blocking legislation despite being Democrats, if we had managed to put people on a time capsule on the day he was inaugurated and then fast forward to today and then show them the record, they would say, my god, that man

must have an approval rating of seventy five percent. But the truth is half Americans are never going to like him anyway at this point, and the other half has been saying, boy, you didn't get as much as you thought you wanted. Then let me ask this, put aside his accomplishments, what do you think have been his biggest missteps? There's no doubt that his biggest misstep was Afghanistan and

the withdrawal from Afghastan. And I want to put a big asterisk and caveat around that, especially as you mentioned before as somebody who studies and teaches leadership, one of the things that is critical for people to understand about leadership is leaders don't do things. Leaders tell other people to do things. They said direction was the president's most powerful weapon. It's actually his telephone, being able to tell other people what to do and convince other people what

to do. And the mission in the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which of course began as an American odyssey in two thousand and one, the longest running more in American history, which President Biden had wanted to draw down and advised the drawing down of more than the Obama administration did when he was vice president. That final withdrawal went badly. It was chaos. There were American lives that were lost, There are many Afghan lives that were lost. It did

not look good on television. Now again, President Biden wasn't in Afghanistan checking people into the airport and checking their bags. But as the commander in chief, he is responsible for everything that happened, and that is I think an important thing to note about Biden as opposed to other leaders that we've had recently in the White House that when something went wrong on his watch, and Afghanistan went very wrong, Biden said, I am the commander in chief. I gave

the orders. It's my responsibility. Blame me, even though he actually was in some ways let down by the people who had to initiate and engage his plans half a world away. Now, let get how want to be careful here. I'm not criticizing the military for the difficulties of its draw in Afghanistan because I couldn't do it. It's a tough job. They did a remarkable job, but it was not as smooth as they or the President wanted. Biden delivered his State of the Union address not too long ago,

and it was very contentious. Republicans were yelling at him from the seats, and he interrupted his own speech to respond, I means Connress doesn't vote well. I'm glad to see you, not I tell you I enjoy conversion. Biden campaigned on being able to work across the aisle with Republicans. Has that happened? What's going on? It's funny and sad at the same time. My daughter is fourteen years old and

she writes for her student newspaper. She's a much better writer than I am, by the way, and she has is writing an article on the incivility of congress in particularly at the State of the Union, and she came to me and said, I've just discovered that there was a case of a congressman from South Carolina who yelled Julie at President Obama back in his earlier days, and that congressman was sanctioned for the inappropriate nature of what

he did. Flash forward, of course to President Biden's most recent State of the Union address and a congress person standing up been yelling Ulie. Happened every minute and a half. So we've certainly seen a degradation of civility. I think one of the things that Biden did that was very important in his Stay of the Union, especially going off script, was to make the point that he's trying for some former bipartisanship stand up and show them will not cut

our security. We will not cut Medicare benefits blong in the American people. They earned it. If anyone tries to cut over security, which apparently no one's gonna do. If anyone tries, it's trut Medicare, I'll stop them. I'll betoing. This is spontaneous quip. And I think that that's important because he even then signaled that he's trying to find things that people can agree upon, and this is not

easy in the political environment in which he lives. After the break, why would anyone want to be vice president? And how big of an ego does it take to be commander in chief? What about is Vice President Kamala Harris? Obviously she made history, is the first woman to serve as vice president and the first woman of color in that role. How would you analyze her time so far

as VP? Has she made an impact? The first thing we need to know about analyzing any vice president is that it is quite literally the worst job in America or the best job in America. It's not just similar to being the backup quarterback on a football team and you get paid a lot of money and hopefully nobody ever thinks you should play. So Kamala Harris has not done much, frankly, to demonstrate leadership in a White House

that has a strong leader in President Biden. And this is particularly interesting because President Biden, of course was vice president understood the role for eight years to Obama. But I want you to set up the just think about the dynamics, if you will, between Biden and Obama and Biden and Harris, and I think he reveals a lot

of Harris's problems. But Biden was brought in as the senior hand for Obama, as the experience mentor that he could that Obama could turn to for guidance, for wisdom, etc. That is not the traditional vice president's role. That was the vice president's role for Dick Cheney, that was the vice president's role for Biden. But more likely role is usually it's a younger person who has brought in to

kind of invigorate the ticket. That was the case with Dan Quail, that was the case certainly with Kamala Harris. And I think in all those cases, the vice president who is the younger person is frankly seen to be appropriately subservient to the president. And that's not a great way to increase your political stature. Remember, and this can't be overseered enough. President Biden, when he accepted the vice presidency nomination in two thousand and eight, gave up any

dreams of being president. He believed he was going to say, spend four hopefully eight years helping an administration, and then he was going to retire. And in twenty sixteen seventeen he left office and did retire. It's only the existential threat that he saw to the nation that was Donald Trump, that made him get back into the race to run in twenty twenty. Kamala Harris obviously has political aspirations, and

that puts her in an extraordinarily difficult position. So I think she would be disappointed if we had put her in a similar time capsule and had her pop up and look at her popularity ratings two years after inauguration, she'd be disappointed with where they were. But I don't think she should be surprised. Let me push back on

that a little bit, though, Jeff. I've heard people say Joe Biden wanted to be president from the time he was three years old and spent a lifetime trying to get there, and then it looked like he lost out. But a set of circumstances arose and he could run. In twenty twenty, there were other people who could have been elected president and made Donald Trump an ex president. He didn't have to run, He wasn't the only person, but he did. Is it possible his political aspirations are

just so strong he couldn't let go of them. You know, two things can be true at the same time. Let's

remember we're talking about a person becoming president. I have argued elsewhere, I suspect argued to the end of my days that all presidents are sociobaths, or at the very least psychologically unusual in the sense that imagine the ego it takes to be a leader of a country of three hundred and fifty odd million people, and you got to look in the mirror every morning and say, there is no one else among those three hundred and fifty million who can do the job I can. That's an

unusual edo who lost stress in the word unusual. And by the way, I should mention that person also by running for office, gains the power to destroy all of humanity. Well, again, not the average thing a person wants. So we should not be surprised that when President Biden perceived the nation in danger. He said, I'm the only one that can save it. At that point, of course, he was former

Vice President Biden. When he saw a problem. We should not be surprised that man of that ego and that aspiration would say I am the one to solve the problem. At the same time, I fully believe and I am quite confident in the fact that had it not been for the Trump presidency, Biden would not have run in twenty twenty. He realized Hillary Clan had the backing of more Democrats, including President Obama. But he could have pushed back and said I'm sorry, I'm running anyway. He didn't.

So that tells me if there had to be something else that occurred for him to want to jump into the race. Well, I don't know if he's a sociopath, but if he is, he's the oldest sitting presidential sociopath in American history. Has that age issue hurt presidency? Oh? And definitely. How do you think Americans view him? I think as an old man because here's the thing, he's an old man. He is going to be the oldest

president in history. And then when he's going to run as the oldest candidate for reelection in American history, and agism maybe the last acceptable form of stereotyping and large scale criticism that Americans are allowed. But they do seem to take advantage of that when talking about President Biden.

I think there is no question in my mind that if President Biden were fifty three and had accomplished the same there would be no talk anywhere within the Democratic Party of challenging him or perhaps that he should step down. Why would He's got an incredible record. Now then, I know this is speculative, but let's say he does run and he does win. Let's say he is reelected. What would a second term for Joe Biden looked like? Disappointing only in the sense that almost every president second term

is disappointing. You know, even Ronald Reagan, who had great accomplished in trying to tamp down the tensions of the Cold War and some argue move US towards a initial steps towards a post Cold War world, was sucked down and almost impeached because of Iran Contra. There's a reason that presidents in their second term modern presidence particular increasingly

focus on foreign affairs. It's because they have come to the realization that domestic politics are really hard and they've likely burned almost all their political capital even by the time they're reelected, especially since most are never going to run again. So consequently, whatever President Biden wants for his second term is going to be harder to achieve, more

likely than it was in his first term. So I would tamp down expectations, which is not to say that one should not vote or vote for Biden because he is going to be less than he promises. Every president is less than they promise, but he is not going to, i would imagine, achieve more than he aspires to. Will there ever be a presidential leader again on the scale of Washington or Lincoln or Fdr. I'm talking about someone who belongs on Mount Rushmore. You and I should pray

every night that it does not. And I'll tell you why, because whenever presidential historians or people on bar stools start arguing about who is who were the greatest presidents, those three that you mentioned are always at the top. And you can have a fair argument over who's one, who's two, who's three, but nobody ever disputes that those are the three. Well,

what do those three have in common. The thing those three have in common is that those are the only three times their presidencies in American history, the only three I would argue where the existential crisis face to nation, as to say, where the very existence of the United States, whether it was going to continue as a country, was in doubt. Obviously at the beginning, George Washington had that both during revolution and then of course during his presidency.

Can we get this new thing up in Roland? During the Civil War certainly a moment of existential crisis. If Lincoln loses the Civil War, well then we don't have the United States, certainly as we know it. And then FDR faced the third greatest crisis in American history, not where we're two, by the way, which was the Great Depression. The Great Depression was so bad when he assumed office that he was not uncommon for people to question the

very validity of the concept of democracy. And I could speak for hours and hours and hours on that which you don't want me to do, all of which is to say, to be a truly great president requires a great crisis. And I would rather have mediocre presidents and small crises going forward. The rest of my life. All right, I have one more question for you, Jeff. Another professor is a friend of yours, Jeremy Surrey. He's asserted a few times that the presidency has grown into a job

that is just too big for any one person. Do you agree with that? I don't, actually, but I agree with everything that Jeremy says up until his solution, which is to say, yeah, the presidence, he's grown too big. You know what, the country's grown too big. You know what, My life has grown too big. Your life is grown to big. Every generation you can find people saying, boy, the world is moving faster than I remember, and you know what, this time it's actually going that way, and

it's going to get worse in the future. I can't keep it with my inbox. Neither can most people I know, so the President Nited States certainly can't. But that doesn't mean the solution is to diminish the presidency. That doesn't mean that the solution is to have co presidence or

a triumvirate. I will tell you one of the problems that has developed over the course of the twentieth century, which we are living with today is the balance and struggle of power that was established by the Constitution's authors. It's not a balance of power. Member, It's always supposed to be a struggle of power. That each branch of the government is coequal and should be trying to get more power, and by doing so is supposed to check each other. That's out of whack, and that has been

out of whack for most of the twentieth century. The presidency has become by far the dominant figure in American government. One solution to the problem that Jeremy rightly identifies, or the presidency being too big, would be for Congress to take back more of its role as a leader in the country. Now there's problems with that. You know, there's a recent Supreme Court case that we've got haven't seen

fully how it's going to play out. That happened in the last term where the Supreme Court agreed that there has been too many watering this down dramatically, but too many times Congress has basically passed the law to say, hey, executive branch, fix this problem. And then the executive branch obviously has a lot of authority to fix the problem. And then when the executive branch changes parties the problem

solutions get completely different. And Congress used to write more specific language about what it actually wanted, not just solved the problem, but here's how to do it. Well, got to be careful what you wish for, because we're going to get now a case where the executive branch has been diminished by the Supreme Court and Congress is in theory supposed to write more accurate legislation. Again, that's not something I'm betting my kid's future on. So the presidency

has grown too large. Granted I agree with jeremy solutions. Congress could act more mature. Am I waiting for that? No? Well, I think it's appropriate to end with a problem with no solution. So thank you, Jeff. I really appreciate it, and it's really great to talk to you again. I so enjoy seeing you and talk to you. Stephen. Thank you very much for asking me. Thanks for joining us

here at One Day University. Sign up at our website one day you dot Com to become a member an access over seven hundred full length video lectures from the world's finest professors. You can also download our app and there you can watch SMU Professor Jeff Angles lectures on other presidents, as well as his talks on the Cold War, Pearl Harbor, and more. Join us next time when we talk about athletes that stuck around too long. In his final season, the greatest baseball player of all time had

a very meager one eighty one. The Bambino, the Sultan of Swat, the Caliph of Clout. You know he went out with the whimper. One Day University is a production of iHeart Podcasts and School of Humans. If you're enjoying the show, leave a review in your favorite podcast app. You can also check out other Curiosity podcasts to learn about history, pop culture, true crime, and more. School of Humans