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You are.
Today's episode TV fomo I r L. You haven't been watching a show and see the characters experiencing something that you never experienced and be like, I.
Ain't never had that ever happened to me.
I'm trying to see what that be like, right, Dno. Yeah, they be living their best lives and I'm just over here watching them from my average life.
But I mean, you don't have to just sit and watch. You could could what you know, use those characters as a blueprint and do what they're doing.
So you're saying I should mimic a TV show in my real life.
I mean when you saying like that.
So how would you say it?
Like you never seen something on TV or a movie or read something in a book and thought, I want that to happen to me. Yeah, for sure I have. Who hasn't exactly our inspires. It's so hard not to compare our lives to the storylines we see on the screen and on the page.
But unlike television and movies, real life doesn't give us second takes our fetus lines. There are no copy editors or fact checkers, and our day to day lives.
In this week's episode, we'll look back at the times we compared our lives to fictional storylines and we're in for.
A rude awakening.
We'll explore the potential negative impacts of life attempting to imitate art with doctor Joy Harden Bradford of Therapy for Black Girls.
I'm Katie, the author of the forthcoming anthology about black bookstores in the United States, Prose to the People.
And I'm Eves, a writer, a yoga teacher and student, and a person who loves to be outdoors.
We talk a lot about how stories have impacted us.
Yes, we have an entire podcast dedicated to black storytelling indeed.
Fact, and I've been thinking about the way storytelling can negatively impact us, like not in a traumatic way, but kind of in a bum us out, give us fellmo type of way.
Fear of missing out is real, But that phrase usually comes up when people are talking about social media.
Yeah, which is its own form of storytelling. Like you see someone having a great time in Bali, and now all of a sudden, you want to go to Bali. Can't point to Bali on the map, but you want a flower.
Baths Okay, that's really specific.
But it was a self track, gotcha.
But I found myself judging people who, from my perspective, were copying other people's lives they saw on social media then posting.
It on social media.
But after doing so much needed self reflection, I came to the conclusion that I do that too, using social media and more traditional forms of media.
I can see the vacation thing.
It is giving out being adventurous and you're sitting at home on the couch like you always do, not going to div university.
A little made outfit.
Right? Wait?
What it was a love and hip hop reference only the real name only?
So you are you left you?
I'm loose. I'm floating in the universe. There's nothing but ether around me and darkness. Hey, I don't be watching reality TV anyway, So, like, what storylines from TV left you feeling disappointed? Is it easier for TV shows to leave you feeling disappointed as compared to social media?
I mean, yeah, I think TV shows really do it for me. Like, sure, the conflict you know they have is often wrapped up nicely at some point, and they might have like a special destination episode or whatever. But generally, what you're watching on TV is their quote unquote normal lives. So I'm like, I want my normal life to be like this. Yeah.
Yeah, because you're really going along for the ride with them, like you have more time that you spend with them, And especially for longer series, every episode can be this huge special day. There has to be a lot more filler and just a lot more things that happened in general.
Yeah, and it's like the mundane things that I'd be like, wow, I can't even have the mundane things. For example, one thing that I found myself being disappointed by in my life comparing it to TV series was therapy, like talking to a therapist. Yeah, Like I had put it off for a year or two, but I kept seeing TV therapists work wonders for their clients, like they were so prepared for their sessions, deeply interested in seeing their clients improved, and their offices were cutes.
I was like, Okay, it sounds like that wasn't your experience.
Girl, not at all. I'm not even trying to be funny. I've had multiple therapists confuse me for other clients.
They're like, oh, what.
About what about your pet dogs? Miss A Legg I'm like, what are you talking about?
Wrong?
Bit Yeah, yeah, like the therapists I've had were nothing like therapists On Insecure.
Two weeks ago, you said things should be easier for me as a successful black woman, and another time you said things should have fallen into place by now. Is there a certain way you think your life should go? Oh?
Well, I mean I do have specific life goals, and I think that if you work hard, then it is shot to.
Yield certain results. There's a medical term called magical thinking, when we believe what we want can influence the external world as opposed to accepting things as they are.
Yeah, I can really tell that the therapist is keyed into bally bringing up something that she said two weeks ago to establish a pattern introducing medical terms.
See and for me, you know, we came into adulthood when folks were openly embracing therapy. So I had this notion that I should go look at me. Sounded like Moley, but it was depictions like this. It made me think that a therapist would really help me.
I can see how that's disappointing, because therapy is one of those things that it's hard to understand before you try it yourself. So these fictional portrayals make sense to use as an example for someone who hasn't been.
Before my thoughts exactly. It's weird to ask someone you know, like, how's your therapy session, which I'll talk about. How did that make you feel?
I've been wanted to though, honestly, but it is a little weird, you.
Know, just a little bit. And because of the nature of therapy. When a therapist shows up in a show, they're mostly there to help a main character with a personal conundrum or reach an epiphany, and you were hoping you'd find a therapist who do the same for you. Yes, girl, main character energy. But alas, life isn't a story, and I am not a character. I am a nonfictional person. Say it out loud, I'm a nonfictional person.
So how did you handle that disappointment with your therapist? Did you shop around?
No?
I stop seeing my therapists for reasons related more to capitalism and America's messed up healthcare system. I mean, I thought about getting another one, but the thought of having to let someone else get to know me and my issues was too exhausting.
What about you?
Do you have a life imitating art moment.
Yeah, I do for sure. I mean, speaking of insecure, one thing that I see on TV a lot that just has not been my experience is the large but somehow close knit friend group. You know, sometimes it's a pretty big group, like six people, and sometimes there's like a base of three or four people and then a concentric circle around that Kora folks. But either way, the
group of friends is close. I mean they all know each other super well and have for a while, and a lot of instances they can hit each other up in the wee hours of the morning about anything. They're down for last minute plans. They go on vacations together, they move cities, countries and stay friends, and they be doing stuff like having immediate urgent group calls about drama that's going down in that very moment, and also the drama a lot of times isn't even that urgent, and
they still be picking up the phone. They're always debriefing and whatnot.
Like in this clip from twenties, this is the first partament I re upholstered for you.
Now it's ruined, yelling Chuck so he can come help us pack up.
We aren't packing up, Okay, we are going to centa Spiel, I am ready to get my life from all about e.
You just got evicted and you trying to go sit.
On the grass and watch a movie, yes.
Or like living single girlfriends Harlem, et cetera. The examples of this go on where there are friend groups that are relatively large but still very close knit.
Yeah. I think something that ours both have in common is like wanting to be like really known by somebody and feeling like.
Is this the therapist?
Okay, let's tell me what yo daddy is. But I mean, as someone who's known you for a long time, I'm surprised that this was your example because I see you as having that. I'm like, yeah, like, you know, you have your college friends and y'all be having all joint birthday parties and going out the country together, and I'm great, what's going on?
I thought that was?
I thought that was it was.
So it's interesting that you, like don't experience it that way.
I really don't.
I don't because I guess when I see it. And maybe that is the whole the fact that a TV show has a whole mythology around it, and as an industry created just make these specific moments look like this, But to me, it feels like the friend groups they all mesh in a way differently than my friend grops mesh. I feel like everything is segmented for me, Like I feel like this, Yeah, I have these friends that I do this thing with, and I have these friends over
here who I do this with. But for me, in shows, it feels like those friend groups every thotty crisscrossed. It's like a big web and everything meets in the center. And also I also think like the logistics work differently in the shows.
I think this is like I got to schedule this.
I've been trying for a month to get with these two friends at the same time and it hasn't worked out because our schedules are very misaligned.
Yeah, and we don't.
Be group calling at all now, Like there's just a level of synergy in kinship that I don't feel like I have in the same way that I see in shows. It feels very flowery and it feels very poetic in shows in ways that it doesn't feel like in my life. And so I don't want to make it seem like I don't have people I love in my life. And then I'm close to it just doesn't work the same way that I seen in shows, and I find myself like being like that looks really nice.
Yeah, it's like you don't see the Hey can you can you come out here? Oh no, Like you don't see that back and forth like that, all the logistics of having that prime group and all that meeting of like it's like, oh, I happen to be at the park.
It seems so spontaneous and if everything's fresh and new, it's breezy.
Yes, it's a good way to put it. It's a bittery.
And of course shows are meant to be a spectacle, so TV storytellers want our eyes to be glued to the screen. Also, characters in their relationships they have to have some kind of spice and intrigue, so there has to be exposition, and they have to build a story's world. But dang, even when we know what we're watching is fiction and the storytellers are doing their damnedest to suspend our disbelief, it can be hard not to feel some
longing for the lifestyles that you see. And there is psychological research around how people interact and bond with the fictional characters that they become attached to. In a twenty twelve study, researchers from Ohio State University use the term quote experience taking to describe the actions of readers who take on the thoughts, beliefs, and emotions of fictional characters. Sometimes we do actually let the attitudes and actions of
fictional characters influence our real life decisions. And like for me, I see in these fictional friend groups that everything isn't always sweet. They make mistakes, get in fights, and they even break up, but still they share this deep kinship that even from the time I was a child, I think I imagined all adults having, but as an adult now it doesn't feel like that. And ooh, now that I think about it, there is a social media trap here too. Black girl friend group travel is such a thing.
Folks be making it look all luxurious and drama free and the feed acting like they have one and a half fights every day but still giving us fomo.
Yes, like speaking of like the big friend group, Like I've never been a part of one, but I've been like kind of those like special guest characters and like, oh, they come in for this episode a cameo. Yeah, it's giving cameo, it's giving. We invited you because we did not have enough people and we needed to split this trip up better. But yeah, like being one the outside of the group but still being with them. You see, like this isn't even fun. Like it's fun on social media,
but like being with y'all is not even fun. So like, why was I tripping off this?
Also seeing that from a sober perspective, when I would imagine other everybody is not sober in those groups around.
Oh, absolutely, yeah, I need to start drinking, doing drugs, y'abby having fun.
It's not gonna help. It's not gonna help.
I have a sneaking suspicion that we're not the only ones who felt dejected when our life and experiences didn't live up to the characters we watch every week. So I wanted to bring in an expert to give us some insight on why we compare ourselves to fictional people, how that's impacting us, and some reframing techniques we might find helpful.
When you say things like reframing techniques, it starts to make me feel like I really am in a therapy session already.
Not quite, but we are going to be chatting with doctor Joy from Therapy for Black Girls right after the break.
Hey, y'all, I'm doctor Joy Hard and Branford. I'm a psychologist in Atlanta and also the founder of Therapy for Black Girls. I'm also the author of Sisterhood Heals, The Transformative Power of Healing in Community.
So, you know, we're watching TV, we're watching movies, even reading books, and we see something or like we want this to happen in our lives. My example was therapist. I watched Insecure, and you remember Molly's therapist. She was so good, her office was so cute. She had all the great insights for Mollie and listened to her and remember everything from last session, didn't mix her up with
different clients. And I was like, I need to go to therapy and that's what my therapist is going to be like, and it just did not turn out like that, and I was very disappointed.
Yeah, So I actually thought that Molly's therapist was a good depiction of what therapy actually looks like, because I do feel like a lot of times television gets therapy wrong. Most often, I see like very inappropriate boundaries between therapists and clients, which typically doesn't happen in real life. But I actually thought Molly's therapists in terms of like not getting her mixed up and like tracking across sessions, like, I feel like that's kind of like the bare minimum.
So I'm kind of sad to hear that that did not match up with your reality.
Yeah, I was too, honestly, doctor Joy when I heard Katie tell me this, I mean, I know about her some of the experiences she's had in therapy, so I feel like that sounds like a lot of people. You know, Katie and I are close enough for her to tell me, like, let me in on her experiences that she's hat with therapists.
But I was thinking that too. I was like, yeah, like, isn't that what.
They're supposed to do, like the least of what they're supposed to do.
So I'm right there with you.
Oh, I was like, well, Molly just had the best therapist ever.
And that's round it coming from your perspective because that's the experience that you've had. Yeah yeah, but yeah, So so for me, it wasn't about therapy.
For me.
The thing that I saw not lining up with expectations and my reality when I was watching television was friend groups for me, one of the things that I saw expectation of, Like looking at these really lovely like relationships that these people had in these shows that are specifically black friend groups, I found that I didn't have that experience in real life, and I found myself like, I don't want that. That seems really nice, So there's some longing for it.
Yeah, I love that you shared that because I feel like I have very I mean clearly in my sisterhood bag right now, right because I'm all in the celebration of sisterhood heels. But I find that interesting that we're also celebrating the thirtieth anniversary of living single this year, and I feel like that is one of those shows that a lot of sisters go back to and say like, oh, this is what I felt like friends and friend groups were going to be like, and then the reality of
it does not match. And I think we have to think about, you know, like what was happening in the world thirty years ago that is very different from now. Right, So there weren't cell phones, or if there were, like they weren't readily available like we have them now. People I think did maybe live in closer proximity to one another, and it just feels like they didn't have as many things that competed for their interests in time the way
that we do now. And so when you see you know, all of them able to kind of go together for breakfast, it feels like they had like breakfast a lot together on the big single, which I think is cute, but you know, like be able to meet each other for breakfast before they go to work, and you know, all of that stuff like that doesn't take into consideration, like a commute and dropping kids off for daycare and like all of these things that I think are just very
different about the world that we find ourselves in now. And I'm not surprised to hear that you long for that.
And I do think that there are some pieces of what we see in media on television that we can think about, like, Okay, maybe we can't have like a Brownstone where all of our best friends live, but what pieces of this can I model and you know, kind of take into my own life and kind of have some semblance of that that kind of meets that need for me, because I just think that there's so much competing for our attention right now, right like they didn't
have Instagram back in living single days, right, And so you know, the time we're spending scrolling on Instagram and playing on TikTok, like could you be having a group chat with your girls?
You know?
And I just think that there are so many things that do distract us that it is good to be able to kind of put all of that away and make time to really intentionally connect with one another.
And it sounds also when you said, look at what aspects that you could have, you know, you could have breakfast together sometimes, so it sounds like you're saying it's not pathological to be looking at these examples and wanting some of that.
Absolutely not.
I mean that's why we resonate with certain shows, right, is because they feel super realistic. But I think you also have to remember that there's a whole writing team and lots of editing and all of these things that go into making these shows that we love. But we also love these shows because they feel very realistic to us. They feel like things that we could achieve in some ways.
I think we just have to be careful not to you know, kind of compare our real life to something that has a whole writing room in multiple editors.
Do you have an example of something that you saw in storytelling that you kind of were like, it didn't really play out like that in my real life.
Oh, you know, I feel like motherhood would have to be that for me. And I don't think I can point to any one like instance or you know, depiction, but I just feel like you I saw in media, like lots of stories around like how hard it is to kind of, you know, bring children into the family and how priorities shift and all of these things. In the real life version of that is like so much more difficult than I think anything that I ever saw depicted in media.
Right, And I imagine like because being a mother is twenty four seven and we get maybe like thirty minutes to an hour with motherhoods depicted on the screen. Or you know, if a book takes you ten hours to read over the course of the book, that really does not compare to what you're doing with your kids day in and day out. So I can see how that depiction is like super truncated and maybe only shows like the highlights or maybe like some very low lights, but
not really all the stuff in between. But how do you think social media has impacted our expectations. Have you seen that within the Therapy for Black Girls group or talking to people while you've been on tour?
Mm hmm, yeah, I mean, And you know, I think that social media as a different level of nuance to this conversation because while we are able to recognize like Insecure and living single and like the things that we watch on TV as entertainment, I don't think that we always view like what we're watching on social media as entertainment, and a lot of it actually is meant for entertainment, but because they look like real people like us, then we get caught up in comparing, like our vacation to
the vacation they took in Bali, right, and how that doesn't match up, and then we're really frustrated and said that, like, our pictures don't look like the ones we saw this influencer who has a team of photographers and like all of these things. Like, I think we do do more comparing ourselves to what we see on social media than we even do to Insecure, because we clearly know that
those are characters. And so I think that this is something that has come up a lot in the Therapy for Black girls community just around people like having to take breaks from social media because they find themselves like doing too much comparison, or it's really hard to kind of stay focused on whatever your journey is, whether that be healing or motherhood or entrepreneurship, because you're always paying attention to like other people's shiny objects, right So, like, oh,
they launched this course, so now do I need a course? Or oh, look at how beautiful their family portraits are
in mine don't look like that. Like, I just feel like social media does it elicits a lot of these very strong reactions from people, and I don't think they always recognize like what's going on because you think it is you kind of keeping in touch with friends, right Like when you think about like some of these parasocial relationships, right Like, there's a lot of money to be made by us feeling like we have these you know, cousin in my head kind of relationship with people that we
follow on Instagram. But in a lot of ways, that can be unhealthy because you are setting yourself up and trying to compare yourself to something that is like an idealized version of life as opposed to like the basic day to day version of life that most of us are actually living.
We'll be back with Doctor Joy after the break. So, if we're having these moments where we're looking at a television show and we're saying that our reality doesn't match up to it, but we want them to be more in alignment, what are ways that we can tell that in ourselves. Okay, that's normal for us to do. There are specific psychological reasons while we're responding this way, and we are able to move through life still, like in a healthy, normal way.
So anytime things kind of veer off course, where you are finding disturbances in your sleep, disturbances in your appetite, you are wanting to kind of be less engaged with things that you normally were really excited about. Like, I think all of those are signs that like something is off and you need to kind of pay attention to, like what has happened. I also think you have to
be careful. And I think we kind of joke about this, but I do know that there are extremes for any circumstance, Right, we kind of joke about, you know, like, oh, what do I do now that my favorite show is no longer on the air And I need a support group, and you know, like all of these things, and I think like some of that is normal. Like, you know, I think a lot of us were said when Insecure ended because we loved it and like wanted to spend
Sunday nights with them. But if you find yourself staying in that space for too long, I do think that that is an indication that, like something, there's some need that's not being met that you were addressing through this show.
Because it's normal to kind of have, you know, parasocial relationships and attachments to characters, but they are characters, right, And so I think when you find yourself over identifying with a particular fantasy world or some disturbance in sleep, or you're kind of spending too much time kind of being obsessed around things that happened on the show, and I do think that that is an indication that, you know, hey,
what's going on here? Like are you trying to avoid something else in your real life by being preoccupied with this fantasy world that somebody else created?
Speaking of being too enthralled in these shows, do you have any tips for folks who are struggling with managing expectations for like grounding themselves in reality, any practices that you would recommend.
Yeah, So, I actually think journaling is an excellent tool for life of these kinds of things, because I think when you can write things down or talk them through, like if you want to do voice notes and really kind of get at like what is motivating your behavior, I think that that unveils a lot for us. Right, So, if you're finding yourself kind of staying with a particular storyline, or you feel like the lines are blurring between reality and fantasy world, like, well, what is it that makes
me want to spend time with these characters? And where might that be missing in my own life? And what kinds of things can I do to get more of that? You know, kind of like our earlier conversations of if you're missing this kind of thing, this living single vibe, like what pieces of that can you bring into your
own life? And I think journaling is an excellent way to kind of get at some of those questions and to really be able to check in with yourself to see where there may be, you know, kind of holes in your reality. I also think I have to, of course advocate for therapy because I think talking with a therapist about some of these concerns can be really helpful.
And I think if you're somebody who finds yourself like struggling with like, Okay, I'm feeling very overidentified with a character, or you know, I'm sticking with these story loans longer
than I think I should. It may feel kind of weird to say that to like a friend, but you know, in a therapist's office, like you know, there is no weird thing, Like there's nothing that you can't go to a therapist with, and so it may feel safer to be able to kind of talk through whatever it is that you're feeling with a therapist as opposed to somebody who is in your life on a more regular basis.
And I think one of the things that is similar to me in Eve's expectations versus reality is just wanting to be known by somebody, Like I want my therapist to know me. She wants to have that group of friends that knows her. And so one thing that I really liked from your book is doing that self assessment
and sisterhood assessment. So if someone's struggling with, oh, like I wanted to have this like big friend group or just like a really good girlfriend and they're not feeling that, like take that assessment and say like okay, or or do I have people in my life that I'm just kind of overlooking that actually do pour into me and how am I as a friend? Because you know, it needs to have that reciprocation. So that's one thing that
I was like, oh, doctor Joy read me. But it was helpful after I was mad Toude for a little bit.
Anger is a totally totally appropriate response to have, And you know, I really want to stay there for a moment, Katie, because this feeling of being known by somebody and really seeing for all of who we are is incredibly powerful. And I think that that is one of the strengths that black women have right is being able to kind of hold space and like our friends and our girls can kind of see us even when we don't want to admit that thing to ourselves. And I don't think
that there's anything wrong with that. I think a lot of times what I'm seeing now is people kind of wanting to be unbothered, so to speak, and like, oh, it's okay if like people don't you know, pay attention to me, But actually it's not like, we're humans, We're not robots, and so this law to be known and really seen by people is something that is totally appropriate, and I think it's beautiful when we can cultivate spaces where we can do that for one another. It's really important.
Now it's time for my favorite segment of the show, my favorite and only segment of our show, roll credits, where we give credit to a person, place, or thing, and we have our esteemed guest, Doctor Joy, and we will let her kick it off. Who or what are you giving credit to this week?
Doctor Joy?
Oh?
I think I will give credit to one of my favorite restaurants here in Atlanta. It's a taco place called Tacoia deel Soul. Okay, It's my favorite favorite place, favorite caso in Atlanta for sure. And when I think about that, so it is kind of like a tradition for my family, like we are typically there weekly. And when I think about, like throughout the pandemic, like that was the thing that
kind of felt like a constant. So even when we couldn't go in restaurants to eat, we would like do us to go order And it just feels like this thing that has kind of been like a grounding space for me and my family. So I think that would be my credit would be Takaria del.
Sol okay, shout out that case th.
Tacos last night. I love it?
What about you, Eves?
Let's see.
I would like to give credit to being barefoot outside specifically. Kenny laughs at me every time I give credit to something. I know it seems like it's out of left field, but it's not, I promise.
I just love being barefoot.
I have been wanting to be barefoot a lot more lately, like I always do. And I think you know that, but it feels really good. It feels grounding. Speaking of grounding, I don't know. Yeah, that's it. That's all I have to say about it.
Period.
I would like to give credit to the season. I feel like a little twinge of fall in the air and I was like, Oh, we're going into a different season. And I was like, oh, I'm going into a different season of my life.
How fitting?
So like literal seasons and like seasons of our lives, and like I'm the type of person who like gets really emotional when there's like a very concrete change, like if there's like a graduation or like a funeral. It's like things are different now, and I feel like the seasons are kind of like a way to mark that, or like nature's way of marking that. So I want to give credit to the seasons. It makes you super like introspective every time I go through a season, changing,
whether it's just summer to fall or life stuff. Yeah, and doctor Joy, how can people keep up with you? How can they listen to you read your book all those good things?
Yeah, so you can find me at Hello, doctor Joy across all the social media platforms. I would love for you to grab a copy of Sister Who at Heels at sisterhood Heels dot com or your favorite local bookstore and definitely share your thoughts with me because I love hearing how people are like going to their group chats with the conversation around Sister at Heels. So definitely let me know your thoughts once you grab it, and then you can check out the podcast Therapy for Black Girls.
New episodes come out every Wednesday morning and you can find all of that at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.
Awesome, Thank you so much, thank you.
I appreciate y'all having me, of course.
So that's that.
On that We'll be back next episode.
See Ya.
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
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