On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. As there are a lot of things that happened this year that were not on my twenty twenty three pop Culture Bengo.
Card, like what Twitter changes its name to x.
Or Congress holding a hearing on UFOs or UAPs or whatever.
They're called, or that her submarine them jokes was flying.
All things that got us in a tizzy. But one thing the people have been asking for, clinging on to hope for, was an outcast album and they didn't get that. But they did get new music from Andre three thousand.
Yep, his first solo album at that, and being the king of unconventional that he is, there's not a single lyric on the album, an hour and thirty minutes of relaxing instrumental songs.
The switch up, the pump fake clearly andres telling everybody to chill the hell out. But seriously, before New Blue Sun, it would have been fair to assume that he moved on from making and releasing his own music, that he, like so many of his musical peers, had gone Hollywood.
It's a trajectory that Andre fluted, I mean flouted, but once so many other rappers happily embraced.
Today's episode the Rap to Act pipeline.
Many musicians keep on keeping on in their music careers, taking the stage well into their later years, but rap is a special beast. There seem to be some self and society impose limits on how long a rapper can keep spitting with integrity and relevance.
Sometimes it feels inauthentic for me to rap because I don't have anything to talk about in that way, Like I'm forty eight year years old. And not to say that age is a thing that dictates what you rap about, but in a way it does, And like things that happen in my life, like what do you talk like? I gotta go get a colonostope? Like what do you like? What do you rap about it? You know what I mean? Like my eyesight, My eyesight is going bad.
There's all this pressure to keep up with the latest trends, to collab with the hottest acts, and to keep putting out new fire, to feed the algorithm and exploit it to money making models for sure.
And plenty of artists have commented on how they felt their rap careers had expiration dates that would come sooner rather than later, similar to high performing athletes contemplating how their bodies aren't always going to carry them to the Olympics. But this thought process isn't always the default for rappers. In a two thousand and nine interview in Xxale magazine, Jay Z said that quote people should make music as long as their heart isn't it.
And sentiments have changed over time. Earlier this year, in a men's health Ludacris talked about how hip hop as an art form is young and that aging is a privilege. There's no you're too old, he said in the interview.
So true, there's no definitive cap on how long rappers can keep rapping, but a fair few, including Luda himself to an extent, have switched lanes insert fast and furious joke here and made acting their main squeeze. So let's start with Queen Latifa, because so far we've only talked about the man's also ladies first. The Queen said it herself.
I've always celebrated the woman because I was raised by a strong black woman.
I raised my father who loves women.
And she was actually the first female hip hop artist to be nominated for an OSCAR. It was for her role in the movie Chicago. Anyway, I gotta be honest. As a late millennial, I knew Queen Latifah as an actor before.
I knew her as a rapper. I grew up.
Watching Living Single, So at the time she was Khadija, and Kadija was her depression.
Now that's when you sit around.
All day and cookie dowing whying at you. Not a Nigro college fund commotions. Now, that's not me.
But by the time I was born, she had already been nominated three times for a Grammy for Best Rap Solo Performance, and in nineteen ninety five she won that Grammy for the song You and I t Y A bop with a positive message.
Yep.
She was all about women's empowerment from the jump. She started singing when she was a child, and when she was in high school she really fell in love with hip hop. Her first album, All Hell the Queen, came out in nineteen eighty nine. On the cover, Queen Latifa stands proudly next to an image of the African continent, flaked by her name and album title in the colors red, black, and green.
Yeah, nobody had to ask her what she was about. It was right there in her wraps, on her album covers and the clothes she wore, and in her name. Ever since she first started putting out music in the late nineteen eighties, she's been an inspiration to other artists like Eve, Lauren Hill, and Missy Elliott. But in nineteen ninety one, after racking up some screen time and music videos, she took her first role on the big screen, a
supporting role in the movie Jungle Fever. Then came House Party two and Juice and her first starring role, Cleo and set it Off.
Fuck you, I know you ain't fitna back down on us now that we need you. I want more motherfucking money.
And Set it Off was a hit, not a sleeper hit, not a cult classic, I mean a hit. As soon as it dropped in theaters. Queen Latifa went on to become Mama Morton, Gina Norris, Georgia Byrd, and Sasha Franklin. And those are just some of her film roles. She has her fair share of awards and nominations for her work on TV as well, but a lot of her characters across the board are really on brand for Queen Latifa.
Take her starring role as the blues singer Bessie Smith in the twenty fifteen HBO film Bessie, or her leading role as a charming woman with a terminal diagnosis and plans to live the rest of her life to the fullest in the rom com Last Holiday. The characters she plays are often determined, funny, strong willed, loving, bold and straightforward. Now they can be flawed. It's not a positive vibes
only situation. She's definitely not the perfect mother or business woman in the Fox show Stars, but the story she chooses to tell usually give ladies first. She's often cast alongside a bunch of other women who would be considered strong female characters. Think of Girls Trip and the twenty twelve version of Steel Magnolia's. Her intentions to uplift women are apparent throughout her art, even when it's not so explicit.
I can definitely see that pattern. So what you're saying is that Que Latifah is a crossover connoisseur, a movie maven, a true pioneer when it comes to women in rap and women in rap who took their talents to tinseltown.
Yep.
And when we come back from the break, we'll get into some other hip hop heavyweights who dove headfirst into their acting careers.
All right, Eves, Who's up next? Next up is iced Tea girl, a prestigeal mainstay at this point.
I mean, not a scene stealer or show stopper, but a true and faithful detective for sure. He's been playing Fantutuola, a detective and then sergeant on Law and Order Special Victims Unit since the year of Our Lord two thousand. The irony of him decrying police brutality in songs then choosing to play a cop in hundreds of TV episodes is not lost on anybody, not least all the interviewers who got a good chuckle out of bringing it up.
But one thing we can't say is that he's not committed to his roles.
Okay, iced Tea have been robbing banks, in jewelry stores, stealing car parts, trying to pimp. As he's put it in Split Decision his memoir with his friend and former Rhyme Syndicate member Spike, he says he was a quote career criminal, a player, a hustler, a street dude who felt he had nothing to fucking lose. He only saw himself living fast, and dying young or living slow in prison.
But he eventually realized that he was garnering too much fame to stay in the game, so he abandoned his street life and his debut album, Ryan Pays came out in nineteen eighty seven.
And he's an og when it comes to political rap, gangster rap, and rap about life in the hood. He had a lot to say about South Central and violence and his everyday struggles.
Yeah, he called it reality rap in a nineteen ninety four interview with Terry Gross. All In all, he released eight solo rap albums, but at the same time he was breaking into the rap scene, he was also breaking into Hollywood with Well the movies Break In and Break Into Electric Boogaloo in nineteen eighty four. Acting work really picked up for him in the nineties, and ever since he's been earning his chops as a screen and voice actor in movies, live and animated TV shows, and video games.
Ic Ty has released some singles recently, but he hasn't released a full length solo rap project since two thousand and six. That said, he is still consistently putting out music with his heavy metal band body Count. They even want a Grammy for Best Metal Performance in twenty twenty one.
Hip hop really seemed to be a pathway for a better life for him.
Yeah, he gets into the finer points of his transformation and his memoir, but he definitely views his evolution from crime live to musician an actor as a come up. It's right there in the title of the book, Ice a memoir of gangster life and redption from South Central to.
Hollywood, an influence for so many people in rap and a model for the rap to act pipeline trail blazers. Speaking of who else you got in the short list?
Now, this last person on the list is undoubtedly the most controversial star we'll talk about today, and he has some of the most questionable wrap tracks in his ouvra.
Let me guess ice Cube.
Nope, but good guess.
Because he's had a lot of acting roles and folks love to talk about how he put his thing down, flipped it, and reversed it from gangster rap to feel good comedies. He definitely could be on this list, but he didn't make the cut. Plus one, Ice is good enough, fair fair, Okay, I'll give you a hint, but you'll have to wait till.
After the break.
Okay, we've all been waiting. What's the hint?
How come he don't vote me?
Man Will Smith exactly?
I mean, do I even need to speak?
On the expanse of his acting career, That scene with his dad and uncle Phil and the fresh Prince of bel Air was one of many iconic moments to come. We got bad boys and men in black, all of them Independence Day, while Wild West, which he took over playing Neo in the Matrix, I robot, I am Legend the Pursuit of Happiness, King Richard. Okay, I'll let the
numbers talk here for a second. Though he holds the record for the most consecutive films to make over one hundred million dollars at the US box office, and films he's start in have grossed over nine billion dollars worldwide.
He said that he told his manager that he wanted to be the biggest movie star in the world, and he's not the biggest based on stats, but nobody can deny his stature and impact. Folks make roles for him, Folks go to see movies because he's in them. Of course, it hasn't always been this way though.
Nah, definitely not rap is where the story starts. DJ Jazzy Jeff and The Fresh Prince released five albums together from nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety three. Will Smith made a lot of money, and then he spent a lot of money, and then the government took a lot of his stuff because he owed a lot of money. Then he met Benny Medina and Quincy Jones, and and he landed a whole television show based on his own rap persona.
As a solo artist, Will Smith released four albums from ninety seven to two thousand and five. But by the time he even started making solo music, he was already starring in films, and actually his first single, Men in Black, was a vehicle to promote a film that helped catapult his status as a blockbuster phenom.
As true as t Pain is a rapper turn sanga, Will Smith is a rapper turned actor. So what do we have to learn from all these reinventions? I think Will Smith is interesting. It's l al that you said he's the most controversial. Do you disagree with that he's the most controversial on this list?
No, okay, but it is interesting that you say he's the most controversial, because I think he goes out of his way to be the least controversial.
Yeah, he always tried to clean stuff up.
Yeah. I remember he was beefy with Eminem's talking about, oh, I don't have to curse in my rhymes, and like he at one point was like dissing gangster rap because that was a big thing. He's like, I don't cuz like I rap about loving my son and stuff like that.
But I'm sorry.
It just made me think because I think it might have been in that the one the interview with jay Z that I brought up where he actually brings up Will Smith and because the interviewer asked him about his kinds of raps and he was like, yeah, I'm not dissing party rapping everything, but I don't do that stuff Will Smith.
Yeah, it went back.
It was like he wanted to set himself apart. I feel as like this safe black person to work with, and of course in recent years that has gone off the rails a little bit because of his personal life. But I think in his rapping and his acting, like his you know, clean rap aesthetic and persona helped him get all the acting gigs. So he's the type of actor who he's very clearly black, but he doesn't always play black roles. He plays Will Smith like how Ojay was like, I'm not black, I'm OJA.
Well, I'm not black, I'm oji.
I feel like Will Smith has been on that tip a little bit.
Well, he did straight up say that when he was trying to create a formula when he was talking to his manager of the types of movies that he would choose to be in, because those are the things that
were going to propel him to start them. So they had to have a certain certain elements, like they had to have a love story or a love interest, and they had to have some sort of monster, they had to have a certain amount of CGI and this was the formula that they were following to be able to choose the next roles that he was going to be in, and those were going to be the things that would help prop his career up. So he definitely was intentional
about it. So I don't know. I can't speak for Will Smith, but I wonder if he would cop to that and say, yeah, I did it.
Yeah, Because you think about it, rap hip hop is a predominantly black genre, and then acting isn't. And there's a lot of like black famous actors, and I think he was very intentional about not being black famous, so going from this majority black art form to acting, but also making sure that you are the leading man, right because like, when you think about it, Hitch didn't need to be a black person. Hitch could have been any race.
But they have Will Smith. He's this, you know, international superstar. A lot of his roles are like that, but they did make him play slave after he slapped Chris.
Rock in Emancipation.
Do you think that's the case for the other people that are on the list, like they could their roles wouldn't necessarily need to.
Be black people.
No, because Queen Latifa from the movies that I've seen with Queen Latifah, like bringing down the House at Last Holiday Beauty Shop too, she's black, like you need to be black, you know what I'm saying. And of course Will Smith is also a much bigger actor than she is.
But yeah, I feel like Queen Latifa, like you said, she stayed in the Ladies first lane in a lot of her roles, but she's also stayed in I don't want to say black empowerment because a lot of them are just like feel good movies generally, but like the black comedy you know, bag. But I'm trying to think of a role that she's done where any race could play it, and none is coming to mind for me.
So do you think there is a respectable way to do the rap to act pipeline in an unrespectable way to do the rap to act pipeline?
I say, get it how you live like. It's worked for both of them in their different ways. I mean, there's a lot of things about will Smith that it makes sense that Hollywood would pick you to be like the raceless leading man in some cases, you know, like you are capable of well he did play Ali, true, but you know you're tall, you can be fit.
But it's easy to do when it's a biopic. I mean, you gotta be a black you gotta be a black man.
I don't know because they had Zoey sound out and playing Nina Smount.
Oh yeah, we're talking about skin color though there right.
Well she be hollering that she not really black too.
Well, there's that cut that it's been enough shade in the episodes.
No, but I mean, I think there's a lot of different ways to do it. We've seen literally three different ways, from Queen Latifa staying in her black Lady's first lane to Iced Tea kind of being like the working man's actor playing you know what, does he play a detective? A cop? And then Wilsonith being like the superstar and kind of quote unquote transcending race and a lot of his that's the way to put it. A lot of his and in a lot of his roles.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's clear that I don't know these people personally and why they made the decisions that they did. But there can be a range of decisions as to why a person goes into acting. It can be because it's something that they've always wanted to do and they knew that and we didn't know that because they don't share their hopes and dreams with
us from jump. Or it can be something that they realize that they are drawn to once they start rapping, something that they realize that they're good at something a different way they want to get their message by. So here on one thing, we talk about all the different modes of black storytelling, and so it can be really inspiring to see people try different things in different avenues, regardless of whether or not they're good at it, regardless of whether they wanted to do it in the first place.
I think seeing all these different elements, in all the different ways that the people we talked about chose to move forward in their acting careers, I think just gives a little bit more visibility to the kinds of breath that the black storytellers that we look up to half in the work that they do and what we are capable of and what we can be willing to do and learning.
I do think it's telling that they don't play rappers or like anything really adjacent to them. Besides, you talked about Will Smith The Fresh Prince was based on his rappers ona, yeah, but after that, it doesn't really come
up for any of these former rappers, right, yeah. But I do think it has to do with the age thing, because you know, they're all at this point middle age, so it wouldn't probably ring too true if they were playing rappers or kind of any in the vicinity of rappers too, because like you said, the people who are you know, the young adults who are going to see them in the movies, are streaming their movies, probably don't really know about.
Them rapping like that I was thinking about.
So it would be like, wait, what is Will Smith doing? What is what is the queen doing right now?
Well that's a good point too, like the serving as models of being able to do the thing that so many artists want to do if they feel like they've been pigeonholed into a certain stereotype or a certain lane doesn't even have to be a stereotype if they've been pigeon holed in any way. This gives them the opportunity to distance themselves easily from the other thing that they
were doing. And so I think that's another reason why they may not play rappers like they did before, because it's like I've moved on, yeah, and not saying that they don't care about music anymore. That's the thing about all these people we talked about today, Like they might still make music tomorrow, they might come out with another rap album and that's up to them. But it is like a redefinition I think, and that I guess that can be pretty empowering too.
And might still be rapping, just not letting us hear it.
They are amateur rappers again.
Yeah, the fir Love. One thing I was thinking about was Queen Latifa and set it off is how it's referenced in our culture. And the one line I have to givebout is Drake saying about to set it off in this Bitch Queen Latifa. But I feel like I always say that, like if I say it like I'm about to set it off, it's Queen Latifa. Mind you, there were many other people in that movie setting it off, but Queen Lativa did her thing. She set it off,
you know what I mean? And like that being such amazed day in Black culture and just like Black vernacular, it's like, are people referencing her as a rapper more now or as an actor? You know what I mean?
I think that people are referencing her more as an actor just because at this point her body of work and acting is much larger than her body of work and music is. And I think maybe I think they are like you and I t u y, that's something we still say a lot. But just because of how much work she does have in the acting realm, there's so much more, so many more flashpoints, so many more big moments to pull from that are memorable. I think that can become memes in ways. I think maybe it's
acting at this point. For Queen Latifah and.
For Will Smith, he had the goal of being the biggest actor in the world, but he also produces movies, and he produces some of the ones that he starts in, but then also produces ones that he's not in. So I think as far as like the storytelling aspect of going for rapper actor and producer, having more of a say of what stories are getting out there is interesting for Will Smith. So can you guess some of the
movies he's produced? Hitch, Yes, King Richard, Yes, Aladdin. I don't see that one on this list.
Okay, that's all I got.
There's some more that he's been in so Bad Boys.
Oh, okay, that makes sense.
Yeah, Emancipation okay, the First Suit of Happiness. Okay, this one might be surprising. Atl Oh, I.
Don't think I knew that.
I guess there also might be a subsect of people who have been on the wrap tag pipeline, but their acting roles aren't huge acting roles that maybe we would know about.
You know.
I think that's cool too that people can still do it in these ways where they don't have to be the biggest actor. They don't have to be the loudest one in the room, but they're still doing a thing that maybe they love or that feeds their family at
the end of the day. And I know, in an episode before, you talked about how rapping is a job too, and acting is also a job, so in a way, it's still it's like, yes, it's an artistic and creative job, but it's just like all of us other working folks who have switches in our careers and choose to change up because honestly, I feel like there's a lot of I don't know if it's hostility or negativity when people talk about rappers who turn to actors.
It's not always the most positive thing.
Like when we're in discourse on the internet, you know, or in conversations with people, it's like can they.
Even do this?
Or why are they doing this? Or they're just doing it for a check, as if that's.
A bad thing.
Yeah, I think one of the things that is so different about rapping, or the perception of rapping versus acting, is rapping is supposed to be like from the heart, like so real, like so authentic, and then acting you're literally making up something, so it's like you're being fake right now, And that's like a cardinal sin in rap is like, oh, like you ain't shooting them guns you said you shot, Like you don't got the bodies you said you got, you know, and then acting is like, yeah,
I'm lying right now.
That is such a fair and astute point because people make a big deal out of people not writing their own wraps. You got to write it yourself or see, you're not the MC. You know, you're not the lyricist, and acting is people literally writing your words for you.
And then you'd being like.
I got telling you how to move your body, what intonation to use for a certain lines. So it's just you are a different thing, or it's perceived as a different way because I mean, I imagine there are rappers out there who people are writing their lines, people are telling them how to deliver them, how to move and all that. But it's with this veneer of like, oh that's all mem.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
And there were some other artists that we could think of that could really fit the wrap to act Bill for example, Eve or fifty cent, and we love to hear some of the people that you can think of that followed this route, So let us know on Instagram at on Themeshow or email us at hello at on Theme dot Show.
And now it's time for role credits, where we give credit to a person, place, or thing that we encountered during the week.
Eaves Takeaway Today, I would like to give credit to Black nature poets. I have been reading a book about Black nature poets, and you know how I love to
be out in nature. I'm always thinking about what nature means, what it means in relation to blackness in the United States, specifically in the South, specifically, what my relationship to nature has been over the course of my life, and Black nature poetry has been a way for me to connect to it in a way that I connect to nature in real life, like just the feeling, the touching, the imagery, the depths, and the resonance of black nature poetry and
how I actually experience it and have been thinking about it in the world. I want to give credit to Black nature poets today because I really value and respect the work that they do and I love it.
That's cool.
I'm going to check out some black nature colature. Yeah, I would like to give credit to cousins. It's a nice relationship It's like extended family, but sometimes like siblings. Be anything you make it. That's very true.
I love that.
And that's all for this week. See you next time, Bye bye.
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
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