Lights, Camera, Logistics! Behind the Scenes with Kyle MacNaught

And today on the show I have Kyle McNaught , who is the video content producer at Five Tool Productions . Welcome to the show , kyle . How are you ? I'm doing good , jen . How are you ? It looks backwards .

So a little trick when you're on Zoom , if you ever set it up , mirror your camera , because that way when you try to gesture to something , it's gonna be actually how it should be . Just don't pull up lower thirds and that's the only thing .

And so I was laughing because your LinkedIn says I'm absolutely smitten with the magic of digital video and all the incredible things I can do . It's like a Swiss army knife of creativity . So I would love for you to tell our audience your journey through video production and why you're just such a big fan of it .

is never a word I would ever use . Never never , never . I barely even know what it means forever now . Yeah , thanks , definitely updating this . So it's fake news . You used AI . I'm going to have to report this on YouTube . Yeah , video it's fun .

So my kind of journey to video was I liked I was always kind of creative , always did storytelling as a kid was like we always filmed , like did that type of stuff . I went to college and didn't really know what I wanted to do .

The movie Anchorman had just came out , so my mother's like well , you like that movie , why don't you try to do something on TV ? And that was truly how I got into communications . I was like sure , so I did newspaper . Yeah , wild Thanks to Ron Burgundy , I'm sitting in front of you today basically .

But yeah , I did radio , I did newspaper , I did kind of all the other forms of media and then graduated college , wanted to go to a big city , wanted to kind of be in a place where , like , I wasn't working in television news because I kind of didn't like that , just wanted to kind of get out there .

So I moved up to Boston , got a job in digital video , which is one of the mediums I didn't do , and then kind of from there just got to keep exploring and really just liked everything , like it's so the coolest part about video really is , at least I find , in terms of creative like . I'm not a great colorist , I can't write for anything . I'm like you .

I don't book time at my hotel to just get my video going , but I write books in hotels .

So that's kind of why I like video , because I've been able to find that ability to like get into that Zen space , like feel like , oh man , these things are coming together , the universe , like this transition I did , it floats perfectly with the B roll I use . So it's kind of what I find fun about video , whereas , like , for you , you're a brilliant writer .

So I'm sure when you're like , oh man , this like adjective I just used was perfect , I kicked butt . When I'm in the hotel with my champagne feet up in the air , I get the same feeling when I'm sitting in a dark room sleeping . That's very funny how fast you write . It's about the journey of writing it is and the character development .

Like you were , you did our um 100 year video last year and I was like this is what's in my head , kyle , figure it out and so , but what ? How you were able to actually put to together but was in my head and I had no actual words to use to get there . Like was really impressive .

And then when I was like , oh well , I want to include this and you were able to do that , like I'm sure that's part of that process too it's like , oh we , we have all this . How do we tell that ? Yeah , how do we tell the story ? How do we incorporate all the pieces together ?

So that's why I also love podcasting Like I've always done a ton of stuff , I've won awards for podcasting but it's like that's the thing I think really sets video apart . Even like in even newspaper , like you're still interpreting it , someone's reading your words and kind of interpreting it . How they're going to video .

At the end of the day is someone speaking and like you're seeing them . Usually , um , there's other ways you can do video , but a lot of times , especially the stuff that I typically do for five tool productions , is that type of thing of like cool messaging , cut , how's this sound ?

It's the person saying what they mean and what they feel , and that type of stuff , and you just have a genuine connection where you can see someone , hear , look them in the eyes as they're saying this stuff .

So this is one I shot in the past . Uh , essentially what I did with my phone . So I shot this , I did the interviews , walked around their little showroom floor . I was a director of marketing for a logistics company , so I've got their vp of operations .

I've got these different individuals in here who can talk and say , like what they're doing , walking , showing . I mean , this is a very simple way . But , like you , think about the case study you might write as a marketer . It's a lot of words , it's a lot of like factoids and stuff , but at the end of the day , they want to hear from a trusted source .

And who's a trusted source ? For most kind of B2B is like hey , I do the same job you do I'm using is an awesome guy . I love that guy . He's like down to earth . Uh , he streams video game content . But he was such a good like . If I could send this video to we can link it out .

But , like , the way jaylon talks is how most of the warehouse managers and the transportation managers speak , so it's not me as a marketer trying to put words in his mouth . He's like this is how I use that company , which , to someone who's trying to look and understand , hey , hey , how does a managed transportation solution work ?

I've got someone who uses it being able to say it and that's kind of what the big thing of what video case studies do . It's just such a good way that giving what people are looking for . It's like how does that thing actually work out ? How is it going to look and feel ? How will I interact with this tool ?

That's where video case studies just give the opportunity . And case studies just give the opportunity . And the best part now is everything has become so cheap . I think I did that entire shoot for less than a hundred dollars . You have an iPhone , you have a phone , you can get a gimbal . So that motion where I was walking through that was a $30 gimbal .

That doesn't take long to set up . Ask your kids , ask your niece , ask your nephew they can set that thing up in a heartbeat , but like that type of stuff , I think I did a decent amount of videos through Zoom so I would have my clients come on . I just talked to them a couple of questions , really , just like in their own words , how do they do stuff ?

But it's sort of like everything that's kind of like podcasting , a lot of like those other things of like authentically talking is what people want to hear . They don't want to hear the jargon where everything's cut and stuff like that .

Because I feel like that's such like the barrier that so many people say they have with videos , like oh , they have such an amazing story , but they won't say it in their own words on camera .

So at the beginning you'd want to be as honest as transparent . You want to have so much communication , because a lot of times I find that what people hate about recording is , a , how they look on camera , but B it's the unknown , like they don't really know what that setup is . Most people don't sit in front of a camera . They're not .

We like to say that you're not talent , right , like we aren't working with people whose , like , sole job is to sit in front of a camera , present , perfectly . You're dealing with people who's like , hey , my job is coordinating pickup at the warehouse or I'm doing this type of stuff . I don't really know about being on front of the camera .

So a lot of it's trying to just get them prepared and have them understand . This is what it's going to be like , this is what we're going to do . Here's the questions I'm going to ask , or that type of thing . There's also just the need to be able to pivot and be agile . I mean that's really the biggest thing .

Like we've gone into a couple of warehouses to kind of recruit and do some sort of recruitment videos and some of the warehouse guys are like I don't want to be on camera

at all . I'm like that's okay . How about if I show just your back and we don't show your face , because the action you're doing is something I'd love to kind of have footage of . I'd love to be able to use that type of stuff . I mean , that's part of what it is Like . As a good producer , I try to just be flexible .

I know the story of where I want to take it . But like writing like anything , like sometimes something goes away that you're like I didn't expect it to go that way . I just need to be able to adjust on the fly , which is a lot of filmmaking .

I don't think I asked you that because I was like , okay , you'll tell me regardless , and then , is there anything that I'm missing that you do want to talk about ? And so kind of giving them the autonomy to say yes or no , like I'm comfortable with this . I'm not comfortable with that .

I've done run-throughs with people like okay , like let's go through it , we'll talk about it , or they will give me answers ahead of time , because I know , like as a moderator , like I've moderated panels and things like that , if I know what things they want to hit , the things that they find is really important , and they are nervous because they're on camera or

on stage or whatever you can then lead them back to the answer , and so I feel like those are just tips I have found , too is like helping them get to the answer that they are looking for , but sometimes you do get nervous and you forget , and then you're like oh man , I wish I would have said that .

But if you have a good partner that's walking you through the interview or on stage with you , they could be like oh , I remember when we were talking about this beforehand , or or what do you think about this , or or whatever . It kind of helps you kind of get to where you wanted to go right , that's the prep work .

Like you might have to ask follow-up questions to try to get that sound out , because they might not have that , because maybe , like I find sometimes the people who are scripted , they come off so scripted . So a lot of times I'm like all right , say your script , then I'm going to ask you a question .

That's going to be about that , but I want you to say it more in your own words . So like that's part of that goes into the prep . I mean it does take work . You can't just like flip it on and just go Like you're not trying to create the Joe Rogan experience where you're just talking for four hours who's got the time for that ?

You're really trying to do like a short kind of period of like a short message . So you've got to think about like how is this going to sound ?

Like picture it in your head , especially when you create videos of like , oh great , they said something short , but they didn't say it this way and feel free to even have them repeat that , but really it comes on you as the person asking the questions , like you want them to trust you and you've got to do all the work to make them trust you .

And I always find that a lot of times if you just tell them , hey , I'll send you the video before I put it anywhere else , then they're good too , like . If they're like okay , then I can feel comfortable to say yes or no with what I look like .

Don't let them all of a sudden give you edits , especially if you're like it's going on my channel , what do I care ? But I mean , same time you talk about like hey , that's for podcasting , for onstage , where it's going to happen , how you make them feel comfortable . You got to be kind of okay with rejection too .

I mean , like we do man on the street stuff and like I think you get maybe two people that are good , you get 10 people that will at least talk to you , and then you get 50 people that tell you to F off .

for a while . Like it's it's been in there , but it's been in . Ai has been in everything .

Like it's just now that they call it AI it's that's the only thing , but like there's been a ton of stuff that they do to help kind of enhance or make some of the tasks in terms of video production that would take longer , happen faster , just because they can use AI to kind of do voice enhancements . They can do stuff like background or coloring .

There's tons of cool things that AI does . That point you made about using kind of AI if someone doesn't want to speak is a great one . I mean that's a way that you can still kind of do video with capturing it . There's a lot of cool things . One of the projects I'm currently working on is exactly what you mentioned .

Like person does not want to be on camera . They're phenomenal on camera . They're really engaging in how they talk . So she they're asking if we could just do voice it . Like can I just do my voice ? And the problem is it's like that's not that engaging to watch a even 12 , 15 minute video .

Part of what's so engaging about you is like your facial expressions , like I connect watching you speak . So how do we do that ? And what we're doing is kind of using , uh , character animation which isn't just like I'm not sending it to like a korean like character animation studio .

For very cheap and some of the software we have , we're able to take a camera , put like a little overlay and there can actually match the facial , like the gesturing , the hands and stuff like that and like that's not as expensive as it used to be . So some of that stuff's great .

Ai , in terms of like fully taking over , right now is still kind of questionable . It's still uncanny sometimes . And then especially , the problem with AI is the longer you want , the more , the harder it is to kind of update the stuff .

So , like I've seen it be great for like putting it , for like little voiceover , like hey , you have this opening screen and you want a Morgan Freeman style voice to say something . Now you don't have to go to a voiceover or you can just get AI to do that .

Same with music it's awesome in terms of like royalty free , like I'm looking for this vibe instead of me going through a music catalog and trying to find that based off of like I want this genre with this type of mood .

With this type of length , you're able to kind of do some cool stuff of just like hey , give me a bright poppy tune that like matches this . So that's . I mean , ai really is a tool . Like I've been trying to think about how to like explain it . Like AI , to me it's transactional , right , we still do the partnership , we are still there .

If we're we still do the partnership , we are still there .

And for a video producer , you're using it as one of your tools in your mini toolbox that you're going to pull out , but like , you still need a person that's there because , like , hey , I made a three minute AI , but at one point the guy loses five fingers and like says like a word that's not real . It's very hard to edit that .

What are like some of the giveaways of ai being utilized in scarier ways , I guess , but to really identify the difference between an AI video and an original video , and does it really matter ?

There's like the , the it's not all the will smith eating spaghetti insane video . Like there is a little bit more to what they're doing . Um , I mean , deep fakes should scare the heck out of everyone . Like the fact that , like they're able to start superimposing faces . Having you say it in your voice should be the scariest thing .

Like it is straight up a threat to what's happening . Um , as of right now , it's still there's enough like stuff that makes it questionable . Like , especially you pause it , you're like that person has two fingers . One arm is like way over here . There's things that you can sort of see , um , but that's why I say it's more of a . It's an accent .

Right , think of it as b-roller , like additional footage that you can sort of see , but that's why I say it's more of an accent . Think of it as B-roller , additional footage . You can use AI . Give me a stock footage of this exact truck doing this exact thing . I'm going to show it for three seconds because I need to cover a cut .

I did with the video Someone talking and they went on like a dog talked in the background . They stopped their point . But if I cut out that dog talking these background , they stop their point . But like , if I cut out that dog talking , these two sound bites together is exactly what I'm looking for , but I want to cover that .

Then you use a little bit of B roll but like , hey , I just want this specific B roll . That's where AI can help you out . I know a lot of like the algorithm to AI has been helping a lot because algorithms they want the stuff like the thumbnails and all those things . Ai gives you the ability to be a little bit more customized .

But I mean , you're starting to see everyone that uses AI to build their video templates or their thumbnails and their little things . It's like , oh , all of them look the same , like that's the thing . It's a lot of sameness when it comes to AI , which is sort of that issue At least I've been finding with it .

And so especially if you use it , which I mean , yeah , I'm a writer but I not I don't use chat gpt for my book , but I will for like starter content , for like emails and stuff like that , I typically rewrite them , but but just having that starting point , and so I can see how even in the video landscape it would be similar to that .

The ones that creep me out the most are the ones that , like you're watching ice cream and it turns into puppies . I don't like those videos . They scare me , Like why ? Why is the ice cream moving ? Why are there so many of those on the internet ?

Um , before we move off , there's one little tip I'll give the listeners or viewers for this AI . One of the ways I've heard it actually brilliantly used is

so find out . Especially when it comes to AI video generating , part of the issue is learning how to write the prompts correctly and try to get that going . So one of the tricks I've heard some people , some video creators in the space use is use ChatGPT to say and I'm gonna write . I got this example .

So have ChatGPT write a detailed text prompt for AI video . So tell them like hey , I want this . You wanna find out how many characters the prop makes for AI video . But you can have them make a detailed text prompt for you . So they're gonna fill it out in a way that , like the actual , like AI wants it .

So that's like just a short , like a better way than you struggling to like how do I tell ChatGPT I want this ? When , like I could short , say this , but like , especially with prompting , it needs to be more detailed .

And that's where , like , ai is like a smart way to use it and kind of like , oh , this just saved me a ton of time and now I'm using , like the right way , because they could say in 180 words , detail , this type of uh reveal .

I want , like I know with you and I we're talking about I pointed the wrong way because of the mirror um , we with your open , right , we talked about the open and you end up using a freelancer for the open . But , like , in theory , we could have probably tried with ai .

And then , like , the problem is like you text prompt , you're like , oh , this didn't work , write another thing , oh , it didn't work yeah , that's exactly what I didn't do . I don't have time to do that right so it's like using chat gpt to like hey , write a text prompt for this , like a detailed text prompt . This is what I'm looking for .

They'll write out that thing , so you don't have to worry about like , how do I write to this video , like this ai prompt , like it's just one thing , that's like oh , wow , that's a brilliant way to use this stuff yeah , I'm actually now .

When I was watching the intro I was like , oh , I remember that thing , I remember this conversation because I was like I'll try to do it too .

What can they be doing right now ?

That's something that like TMSA right , we filmed a ton of B roll for that the hundredth anniversary video . So B roll is like that , any shot that's like action and stuff like that . Typically your A-roll is people talking , your B-roll is the footage that goes over that to kind of tell the story a little bit more , to enhance it .

But you can set up a whole template on Canva .

Upload your B-roll that you go to a conference and you have your salespeople or your subject matter experts , your people , your VPs , your C-suite all of them just film with your phone , upload it to Canva and then you can have a branded thing that you don't need to be an editor , you don't need to be in the Adobe suite that I'm in .

Canva does all of that . Canva can also put the stuff in frames , like Canva does stuff . That gets me annoyed as a video editor because I'm like that's what I would do to do a massive flex .

Yeah , it's like if I'm doing that edit , it's like if I'm doing that edit , it's like it takes me about five hours to get that type of thing going to make sure it all works , whereas canva is like oh , you want an overlay and we want to do a background stuff . Like canva does so many things .

I think that , especially as a small marketer when I was doing it myself for that logistics company , like that was a tool that was like kind of becoming bigger and bigger .

But as more and more we see , it's like hey , I'm gonna create this very high produced video for you , but I want you to take all that b-roll I shot for you , upload it into your canva and then you can tell more specific stuff back to that video case study .

You can have exact people doing the stuff that you want to represent your company and like , especially , helping your prospects and your clients recognize . Like , hey , this is what I look . Like here's someone who's just like you , with a title and like you can do stuff that I'd be doing with that machine .

The other thing I'd say , the other lowest hanging fruit a lot of times is SEO . Like SEO and YouTube are your best friends . It is a search engine . Think of it that way . Make sure you put metadata in your YouTube videos . Make sure you're doing it in a way that people search . Youtube's analytics is so robust .

It's so good at showing you who's coming and why they're coming , so you can understand . It's like great , I drank for this . So , as you do SEO on your website , don't think of YouTube as just like the cool cat video , like landing page or like places I watched you like how to cook something Like . It should be used as a Google search tool .

I need to outsource this to my video partner to execute exactly the way I want it to , whereas like our location announcement videos where I wandered around Austin Texas

taking a bunch of photos of all of the cool artwork because that's what I was super into and then I self yeah , I self-recorded myself saying like hey , we're going to . Texas . You know , like all that stuff that was all then put into Canva and made a video because I'm like that doesn't need to be super polished .

It's literally me taking photos of artwork and me recording myself about 18 times saying the same 30 seconds and people walking by and staring at me , but that's fine , um . But like there's times when you need that , you know , really polished , look something like a big milestone . You really want to .

You know that's where you make the investment to make the video really , really special . And then there's times it's like you don't need to do that and you can pump it out a lot faster and still have good quality . It's just different . And so I feel like that's the importance of like merging those things together .

Like you can have a robust video strategy and know when you put the money into it and when you put the labor into it .

Having that video strategy is understanding like , hey , there's short form user generated stuff that's going to be good for a specific purpose , just like that long form video or that more highly polished video is going to be good for a specific purpose , just like that long form video or that more highly polished video is going to be good for a specific purpose .

It's just understanding that stuff . You can't just assume it's all the same , but like that one is one especially . I mean like , talk about that partnership we worked with , right it was , I was there to do the hundredth , so I was interviewing , I was doing stuff like that .

However , thinking long-term of like what this whole , like what marketing you have to put out , it's like , hey , I'm going to capture all this B-roll , so I'm going to give you all this type of footage , so I'm going to have tmsa members celebrating with signage and stuff like that , because it's going to help my video , but it's also going to help your marketing

content in the future .

But part of growing partnerships is knowing when it is to you know , up up the game and you will be doing all of our AV video photography stuff for TMSA LV and for this year , which I'm really excited about , in large part because I only have to talk to you . I don't have to talk to four different people .

But what I would love because we do have other event planners , we do have marketing people that are in charge of this type of stuff in our network how does the AV side of things prep for events ? What do you wish that event planners knew or what do marketers miss ?

Because I know it can be really hard to be like , oh , there's so much stuff that I'm missing , or I wish that this ran more smoothly , or whatever . I would love to hear the other side's perspective so that we can maybe get a little better .

I worked as a video , uh , for a non-profit . So I worked where , like hey , we would reach out to video production companies because I was just the one person I had a hard time , so we'd have to do that . And they would come in and they'd just be like , hey , here's the product you're going to get . And it's like , well , no , I need the b-roll footage .

I could use a bunch of the stuff and that's really the same . When it comes to the events , it's understanding kind of the big picture of what you need to do . It's events are no longer just like stand on a stage and talk . It's photo . But what does photo mean ? Is it just an album at the end or is it headshots that people want right away ?

Is it action stuff ? Because we want to create that fear of missing out , like all those types of . It all comes down to like understanding it . And then for an AV , like a really successful AV company , they should be talking to you . It should be a partnership and it shouldn't be you trying to translate what they're saying .

They should be listening to you and understanding what you're trying to achieve and you should feel confident that they know you . So really that's the biggest thing that I try to do is just have that clear communication .

I try to understand the client's boat , so the budget , objective , audience and timeline of who are they talking to , what's their budget , how do we make this accomplishable and how do we do it . And then it's all clear communication . I mean , it's the same as someone who doesn't want to be on camera .

It's like , all right , great , here's when we're going to have meetings , here's what's going to be . I'm going to communicate this clearly .

I think one of the facts that I recently learned , especially when it comes to the event side that's fascinating is that I want to say it's like 50% of all hotel contacts , especially in the kind of catering , the place that is , event managers you're kind of dealing with them 50% of them are this is their first time ever having that type of job .

Like the industry fundamentally flipped after COVID . There's a lot of interesting stuff that's happening in the event space , things that used to be a no brainer in terms of like , yeah , we could save the room the day before , it doesn't matter , for us it's really the hotel bookings that we make our most money .

They are now getting rooms booked every single day . So there's stuff that you got to have that communication . It's really difficult .

So , as event managers especially at the TMSA event managers , who usually are also the marketing they're a bunch of fun things , they're the merch , they're the company store , they're all the fun stuff it's something that's tricky , it's not easy and what you want to do is find partners and really the AV is a big important thing from that , because you want to have

the same consistent feel , regardless if you're in Austin new orleans , orlando .

You want to trust that your partner's been with you and can understand and you can sit there with this idea and be like great , you ran with it . You know that tech side . I don't need to know the tech side . I don't need to know the tech side .

I just know I want to be able to present this way to my audience and I want to be able to do it for this type of this budget , and that's kind of where it comes in to have a really good AV vendor .

What are they charging me for ? Because I don't speak AV . That's never been something that I've worked in , and so you became like a trusted partner for me to be like do I have to pay for this ? Like what does this actually mean ? And now I'm like , okay , I'm just going gonna pay you because you've explained to me what I need and so .

But I do think that's really important and so , like , as an event planner , I do think I agree like it's really important to have partners that you have enough that you can't get that from a hotel ad team either , but it's just having a relationship where you're able to trust and know what's going on and that the people in the room you're able to connect with

like I , my one guy that I worked with at um executive summit last year he was great , like I loved him , even when he had to step off to go to a different hotel .

He came and found me to tell me like well , thank you , I pre and executive summit doesn't have like all the bells and whistles that elevate has , but I was really appreciative of that , where I've had ones in the past too , that I was like I have no , I have not a single clue where the 80 person is and the no one can hear the person on stage and so

and so . But I do like I feel like av can make or break a conference , same with internet connectivity , it's something like that .

Like all those things , um , and just like from the event planner side , I typically try to stay for like site visits in the hotel I'm at and I make sure I load up all of my devices in my room and see if I can like break it or whatever , because that is like we are working people , they're going to a conference .

We need to be able to access the internet , and if the internet is broken it's not good . And so I . There's been a hotel that I love and I was like no , I could not . I had to call your little tech people from my room twice , and so it was not an option for me anymore .

So I don't know why I went on that rampage , but I think it's really important to do all those things .

It's like a lot of times , like they add all these things , you're like , is that necessary ? What's this ? And then like the bodies too , like it's one of the tricky things .

One of the things that we like to do is like we send people on site so it can be a little more expensive , because , like you're getting me on site when it comes to av , but what that means is you've got me for the entire thing . Typically , when you go to these hotels , like a lot of times their person's there for their set number of hours .

You go over sure , you can go over , you're going to get paid more , but like that person's only there for that hour . Like the showroom , and that's not what you need . You need some partner that's there to help you as an event manager , because you're worried about reg , you're worried about the internet , you're worried about all these other things .

Where's the food ? Is this all out ? All these things that really go into an event manager side . They're just so time consuming , uh . And then if all of a sudden you're also worried of like wait , this person's who needs to get mic'd up , you're like no , why can't my av person take care of that ?

And that's sort of where , like I , I love it , I have a blast with av , especially getting more and more into it of like it is fun to kind of run a show and get all that stuff going and then , like you say , it's like it does make or break a lot of times .

Like a mic breaks down , everyone's sitting there awkwardly and like what is happening and that's kind of the big thing .

If you got five minutes that you only need to tell that , tell the way , instruct them , do whatever story you want to . But like the idea of like if this is over 90 seconds and it's garbage , you're like no , there's something I'm explaining that's too complex to be able to get done . So really it's that .

I think that's the biggest thing that drives me bonkers . On the internet . A lot of people kind of take that traditional like oh television where they're putting in breaks and stuff . You're like that's not what the internet is . You don't need to build in these ad breaks , you don't need to do a certain time because you can do as long as you want .

Joe Rogan can do a four minute , four hour podcast , but then you can have a daily . But then you can have a daily . The daily does like the one minute news recap and that's just as valuable . So it's really like don't worry about length . If I could just preach that , it's as long as it needs to be , as short as it can be .

I heard that from Facebook and Instagram when I visited their headquarters and , like their director of content was like this is what matters for us , our platforms , like the video , length isn't something

that really matters .

We talked about different things , um , but I want to take you and the audience now on a little bit of my long con of this . So I'm coming back to the beginning , when I asked how do you get people on camera that don't want to be on camera ?

So you mentioned a few times that you used to be like a director of marketing or logistics and when we first met , um , you came and did video at the 2022 it wasn't even elevate yet it was the annual conference and you said , wow , jen , I wish I would have known about this organization when I was a director of marketing and logistics .

I felt so alone and like really siloed there , and if I would have known that there was this group of people like I would have been better . And I was like that's cool , really great and awesome to hear Can you put yourself on camera and say that ? And you said no , yeah , who ?

It was like something where I was by myself . I had no idea about running a company store . I came as a videographer from a nonprofit , wanted to kind of build up a team . There wasn't working at the nonprofit , because it's a nonprofit dummy you should realize they ain't gonna have more money .

So I got like this job and they wanted me to be a director of marketing and , believe it or not , it's actually the company that Tim Dooner used to be at . So like they were doing podcasting , dooner left that to go work at freight waves and they brought me in . Um it . Really to me it's like great , I can do content creation .

I've done the content stuff in the past where I've heard marketers battling with the salesperson . I can get in there and do it . But there was so much more that I learned about marketing , uh , and it was all kind of me learning by googling or texting blthe because I just randomly knew bright , uh , blumlevy , I don't know what's her new name .

I completely mullet ah geez , I've just learned brumley somehow . Now you remember a different one . What the heck . Uh , but like I would text blithe because , like blight was someone I did a weird random past life thing . I'm just like , hey , is this a normal thing in marketing ?

Like I didn't understand running the company store was like a normal thing marketers did . I just thought I was taking on responsibility and I was getting more and more mad that like I was a doer who was taking on responsibility and felt like I was getting taken advantage of .

It would have been awesome had I been able to go to tmsa elevate or uh , back then it was just dmsa , right , it wasn't elevate . Yeah , if I would have just gone to the conference .

When I got to there to film I was like , wait a second , everything you're saying was stuff that went through my head when I was living , when I was going through this journey , and like , typically , we we're the marketers are doers . They are people who want to get stuff done , especially in logistics .

Because you're out there , you're trying to talk , but you get put into all these other roles and you're like , is this something I'm supposed to be doing ? I feel like they're just taking advantage of my nature and to like learn that like no , that wasn't the case and I could have had people in sandboxes .

I mean , really , really , that's the awesome thing about tmsa . The last one I really was like an aha moment to me was like there is sandboxes available for you , in terms of like hey , I've never done this before . I can go to the membership and be like , hey , I'm doing this , what do you think ? And they're willing to watch and lose .

Like you've just got a team that like you're essentially giving yourself a team without needing to give it to you , like without having like what a company , what a logistics company is never going to do , which is build out like a 20 person team . It's like you get to go to all these people , you can find people in your area and kind of connect it .

It was such a cool thing and then you make it a party . So like that's the other thing . Like I remember that first time I was there and that party went to like midnight and I was like I gotta be up .

It's something like I say , like I probably would have still been in logistics marketing if that was the case . And like the company I was working for , I know they've gotten bigger and bigger , so it's one of those things of like I'm very happy with what I do now .

I love doing video and stuff like that , but it's one of those like I probably would have been in a like a company that just continues to raise itself because that's logistics , like they can get , they can grow like that and as a marketer it's like you're going to get burnt out . But man , tmsa is such a cool area to kind of keep yourself engaged .

It's mainly because we're recording this in march and it's horrible up here still .

Like I've lost people recently in my life that I just wish I could have spent more time and really took an advantage of that .

I know , when I'm younger , like I was all kind of about myself and did all these things , so part of it would have been like , hey , you dummy , just like , enjoy the people in your life would be the thing that , like that advice I would have given myself .

And then , yeah , would have professionally been join the TMSA running the company store and having this big galoof who wore a jacket , your sweater , three times and now says it's too tight for him and he wants a new one . You're getting very upset .

If you would have gone to TMSA , you would have realized that , like , everyone's got a big galoof in their company . Here's ways to work around that big idiot . Uh , would have been great to know . Uh , four years ago .

great advice . If anyone is interested in joining us at TMSA Elevate this year , you can scan this QR code . June 8th through 10th in Austin , Texas Very excited about that . Other things upcoming here at TMSA our recognition program is open for our Purpose Awards , Trailblazers and Rising Stars . Submissions will close March 28th .

So it is rounding out to when you can submit for any of those awards . So make sure you get those in Free submissions for members . So definitely a member perk to take advantage of .

And then catch us on the show next week where I'm interviewing Jennifer Shaker with IMC Companies , where I'm really excited to talk to her , because we talked about what it's like to be a bit of an introvert in marketing and PR and what that means when you go to trade shows and need a night to just door-dash food and sit in your pajamas by yourself , Because

I feel like people should talk about that more . So dive into that and trends going on in marketing PR industry . But thank you so much for coming on the show , Kyle , and for working with me and dealing with my nonsense . I feel like we both did a really good job .