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On the pad.
Now we don't I'll get in. It's a right trick.
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Goodness, make a bet it is out.
And hearing guys, this delivery has.
In the US as we go.
On the Front Foot with Brian Waddle and Jeremy Coney powered by News Talks head B at iHeart Radio.
Hello, Welcome to on the Front Foot again with Brian Waddel of Jeremy Coney and the special guest this week he joined us previously Peter Holland, former New Jitlian cricketer and a man with a wide knowledge of cricket from around the world, played in the Dutch League as well as playing in is Land and Peter Holland. What we're talking about this week is a Queen sweep for England over the West Indies, did it in under three days.
The black Caps still deciding on their contract list, what does the landscape look like for the future, and the first test of a new nine test program for the Black Cap will be staged at Greater Neider Sporting Complex. And we start with Jeremy Coney now going to explain what the Greater Neider Sporting Complex is because I've never heard of it up until today when I found out. That's when usuallyand you're going to play Afghanistan.
Hello Jerry, you know what? Hello Mose, how are you good?
Yeah?
Great Annoider.
I don't know whether there's a less Annoyder it. Actually it has another name, doesn't it. It's almost if they don't like it, and they call it the shade VJ. Singh Partick Sports Complex at Great Annider. You need a hell of a big piece of paper to write that down on, don't you. But yeah, look it's an a pretesh, isn't it. And it's a it's a It's a state in the north of India that that borders with Nepal.
So it has its capital city is luck Now.
And I mean some of our listeners will know that from the franchise. You know, they have a side in the ip of the luck Now Super Giants. They have a Rangy Trophy side which is their first class cricket and they've had they've got players like puled YadA comes from there, and and and Kumar Mohammed Cafe came from there. I think, so, yeah, you've done then, well I knew those things. Was that's about all the three players I know from there.
You haven't played there, and I guess Peter Hollanden has had more teams I think than than just about any other cricketer in the world.
No, it's better say I haven't played there. That would be that, that would be, that would be a fair assumption. I I do think that, assuming this match is going ahead, because we're a bit light on information, it could be a rather tricky little event for a new student coming out of where we are now against well Afghanistan who showed quit of form and they have very fine spinners, says we all know, and batting is not the worst thoughts.
Most of them are playing best cricket at the moment, though, aren't they Most of the team would be. They're all playing, you know, the this frivolous Champagne game that is paying out big money. So it's interesting to know what sort of side they're likely to choose to go there, if if, if they've been able to sign contracts, you know, they've got an issue with those contracts at the moment. Jerry, haven't they that you know, players like Williamson, Bolt, et cetera,
et cetera haven't signed. There's question marks around Conway signing. And we haven't seen a list. We've seen the names of the players who've been offered contracts, but doesn't mean to say they've accepted them. And you know there must be a hell of a mess to try and pick aside in those circumstances.
Jerry, Well, yeah, I think everyone should realize. You know, there will be some uncomfortable moments, I think, and it's probably going on right now, isn't it.
Brian.
With the you say that they've made a list, that they've invited people if they want a contract or not. Yeah, but now you've got to go through the actual process itself of meeting the players. Look, we may not lose many players at all. I don't know, but there's no doubt.
I mean, I'm sure both of you have heard of Bob Dylan, the times they are a changing, and I don't know whether he played much cricket himself either, But the players we are going to you know what we've got as meetings between players, some of them the better ones are in some cases millionaires and multimillionaires, wealthy by New Zealand standards, and I don't know who they'll be
going to see, Is it Scott Weenick. And let's say it's Scott Weenick and he's sitting there with a number on a piece of paper that New Zealand Cricket can afford and he opens it up and it's kind of laughable. And then of course there's a clause at the end of the piece of paper that says you've got to play super smash here as well. And the money being offered some of these players for franchise cricket is probably between two and ten times as much, and that's for five weeks only.
There is a bit of an issue. Now.
I don't know what you guys think of that, but that's the kind of guys of tectonic change that is taking place.
My last point, I suppose I could.
I mean, I could make lots of points about this and about it comes to what's happened to cricket in the last.
Twenty odd years.
But you know, the top players are more important for developing teams than one you know, of smaller nations than they are for the larger teams. You know, they're much more vulnerable and their boards can't pay big contracts. They're not paying huge fees, and as the players get older, they feel they kind of need a winful.
You mentioned Devin Conway Thereds. If it's him, he.
Might say he's in his thirties, he's married, he thinking of family, and he might have a family already, but they might need a windfall.
It'll set them up. So if there is an offer of movieans to join a team in a franchise, it's like winning lotto for them when it arrives, you know, and the private equity owners say is yep, will take you New Zealand cricket. Really, there's not much they can do, is there. He's presented with a figure that's what you know, as I say, within the budget of New Zealand. But it's laughable, and you've got to play some of domestic games.
Yeah, it's understandable, most, isn't it. You know, you get to get these contracts and there's only so many players are going to get the offers, aren't there. You know, the guy who plays number six for Otago and is a sort of a part timer, he's not going to make the big money or get the big offers, and New Zealand can't afford to pay what England and Australia can pay in terms of the contracts.
It's actually rather simple, isn't it. It's called capital cash, an absence thereof Well that's what we're seeing, and all we're seeing now is effectively what's happened to the Western these several years ago, where their players said I don't get enough here playing from a country. They were the four runners of this, and you know, we tended to look at that a little bit and think, well, that's not so good and how bad is that for West Indies Cricket now scroll forward, as they say, and that's
what we're facing right now. And cricket now, compared to the times when we were playing, is a genuine career where where you can damn find money if you're good enough and you're dead right once. In so far as if you look at that listing there of players on offer, about a third of them possibly tops, are going to be those attractive sort of players. The rest of them are emerging cricketers. But then when and if they succeed,
we can see the same thing happening. I mean I have great sympathy for Scott Wene, who sort of walked into a very very true in thee Zealand cricket, very tricky situation because what what, what options and what leverage does does his Zealand cricket have Basically it has it has none, And as Jerry points out, you know, we just can't offer these players what they what they what they're what they can get in the open market. So I suspect some sort of revamp of the player's contracts
going to have to be nutted out. Quite what that looks like, I have no idea, but I think Jerry, they did write about Bob Dylan. He was right. They certainly are changing, and I think it presents real dilemmas for us.
I mean Bob Dylan.
H yeah, yeah, that's right, he did well, only when he changed his name.
Yeah, he changed his name to Dylan. I remember standing beside Bob Willis we're talking about everybody in a fast bowlert for England. He loved Bob Dylan and knew all the lyrics of Bob Dylan's songs, and I can remember standing by him at a party and he just saying the whole of Dylan's numbers. It was very boring, but that's okay. He liked that.
But the other point I would make, and there's something in me says it's inherently wrong. But when I faced capll dev or Bob Willis say, or Ashley Mallett or Lily, there wouldn't have been a huge disparity between part of what we were paid. They might have been paid a bit more, but it was because there was not much money in the game as a whole. And that was,
you know, forty years ago. But now when Ben Sears, if he selected runs in at the basin to bolt to Joe Root or to Travis Head or Mitchell start bowling to Will Young, you know they're both players, are representing their countries, both are in the same game, both are on the same ground, both to do well for their side. And yet one is getting maybe three times more for the fees for playing that match, and more importantly, probably ten times as much for their contract for doing
the same things for their team. And as I say, something doesn't feel quite right within me about that.
The question it poses for me is that the players that are getting offers have earned them. They've grown up through a system that's paid and prepared them, and then they've developed their game to earn the money. I just wonder is it doing anything for the good of cricket in general. Nice to have all these people with the big money, but is it helping the development? Are we just preparing players now for IPL contracts, MLC or Sri Lankan contracts and not really caring too much about what
happens to the New Zealand game. I mean, Peter, when you played, you put your body and soul into playing for well, how many associations did you play for a dozen or more?
And three of them was only three?
Three out of six, three out of six.
But you went you went overseas as well, didn't you.
You?
You England played in the Dutch competition, so you had a chance to widen your horizons, didn't you correct?
And And but the reality was was is that, Yes, I got paid when I went across to England. I think we got our expenses covered. But we would take time off without leave. Usually it'd end up coming back to work with a chipped finger and god knows what else and no leave and probably in the last couple of games you had to take to play those were there's time off work and so you didn't get paid, so you'd come back broke a bit sore, but but
you did it for love. When you went to England, he made a bit of money, but that was never going to make you make you a wealthy person. Which is why I gave the game way at twenty five in New Zealand, because I had to go under a career. That was what we were faced with then. I mean, I wasn't a talent that Jerry was, clearly, but those were the realities and so we had to go and pursue a career. And and that's where that's what the
situation is different for these players now. They can now play into their thirties, well into their thirties, and if for Jimmy Anderson, you can play when they're forty, for God's sake. But it's quite a different world now and I and I really I don't know what. I don't know what the answer is. The Only thing that I can try and think about is if you look at football, where where where people Yeah, clubs for instance, married in
Phoenix sells players they've developed them. Now now I don't know if that sort of system could could ever emerge. But what you've got year the investment's been placed into these players out of New Zealand cricket for which there's no return on them per se. Yeah, Devin Conways come over, has crowded this opportunity. Would have you got it?
Have they said?
In South Africa? Who would know? But he's benefiting and quite one, quite rightly, fine, fine player. But is there something that New Zealand cricket should be rewarded for for the fact that they've developed or given that that individual the opportunity and others for that matter. I don't know and I doubt whether, unfortunately that could happen. But how does the Zeeland cricket recover its investment? And the question mark and very trickiness.
That's a fair point. The landscape at the moment, Jerry is It's changeable, isn't it. It could be different in a week's time, a month's time, in a year's time. We're not going to know whether New Zealand cricket will have the ability or the control I supposed to control for the wrong word, but the availability of money to pay players a substantial wage that they can along their career past Peter Hollins twenty five into the real world of thirty five and forty.
Now, no, that's it is the thing that money isn't a bit of an issue in the game at the moment, isn't it. I think everyone recognizes that that the fact that there is there's plenty of money to go round, so the game can thrived. You know, Cricket generally as a game has plenty of money with the three formats. Yes, one format just happens to be dominating the others at
the moment. But you know, since since I reckoned about the two thousand's, cricket has moved from when I played, for example, and Move played, it was a spectator first game, but now it's become a television first game. And the rise of companies like Sky and Spark and so on, and overseas companies as well have brought with it huge money and that has created disparities and inequities. You know,
so three countries have obviously benefited from that. And so it's India, Australia, England earning the high revenues principally from satellite Telly with your box and that sort of thing that you have in your house. So you know, or streamed and since and it's the size of the population that you have in your country, well who can determine that and the interest there is within that population of cricket. Now, New Zealand you can only raise money from two sources.
If you're aboard, you raise it from the region that you are in, right, whether it's whether it's broadcasting or whether it's you know, sponsors and so on, but that's in your region. And then the second place you get it from is an ICC distribution of money of funds. Now. You know, for smaller countries like us and like the West Indies that we've been talking about, they just don't
raise enough money. I mean here in New Zealand, for heaven's sake, Spark the TV company gave it up because to Television New Zealand for the last couple of years, just so they can get out of the costs of running it. You know, we've got a small population. How do we host teams who come over here? They pay for themselves. People that understand, when you go over to England, New Zealand pay the cost of the flights and all
those sort of things to get over there. As soon as they land England take up the costs well, you know, accommodation and travel and all that stuff. Food and so what do we do as soon as they get off the plane. Here our touring teas that are coming, we want to get them away again because it costs us too much. We want to go. That's why we only get them two tests, isn't it?
So you know the.
Two areas. Obviously that things can change, well most that's a good idea. That's although I think the ICE, I think the IP do pay back to the boards. I think there is a little bit going back that way, but it's not much compared to the whole amount. Two things, obviously, the ICC distribution could perhaps change a bit, you know, smaller nations could get some money there.
And secondly, they're starting.
To talk about now that when Zimbabwe tour England, you know, England will pay them a fee. At the moment they don't pay them a fee the touring side.
They might pay that side a.
Fee to tour the side as well, you know, so that could be another perhaps incentive. Besides, it's not as if teams are turning up to the icy Stewart wheelbarrows.
Are they at the.
Door saying look, I want we want leather chairs for the boardroom, you know, or we want top grade run for the sponsors. You know. It's not that we want money for nets. We want money for some new cricket balls or a mawa you know that's improve our pictures. Those are the things that that smaller nations are wanting, particularly someone like the West Indies. You know. So those are the issues that are really confronting in New Zealand at the moment, and that's why we are in the situation.
Yeah.
Well, in I sense too that some of these television companies, I mean, judging by the Sky, the Spark, the TVNZ issue, probably don't have a lot of excess money to throw around the wave of cricket with all the other sports they have to deal. It's a challenge that we are going to have to look at in terms of our cricket and see where some of these players are going to get their living from, whether it's going to come from the Mumbai Indians or the Delhi Tigers or any of those names.
You know.
Now we've got players currently in the competition in America. We've got nine players in the MLC, Alan Conway, Ravendra Bolt, Graceful, Santner and Ferguson. There's three in one hundred that I've noticed, Sauthi, Mildon, Phillips and in Canada, sif At Monroe and Listera. And we don't have the money to even put those competitions on and invite Mitchell Stark to come out here and
play in our local Dream eleven Super Smash. So there are major challenges that we're going to have to look at and discuss in the future.
And just to that, so the Super Smash, we see Kain Williamson well the Supersess he's playing for the Dubai Super Giants, the Durbin Super Giants in South Africa. Yeah, so, and that's that's just a precursor of what more is going to happen with the leaking of our better players. It's somewhat there's a certain inevitability about it as they get bound in by their IPL employers, challenging.
With a little bit of luck. Caine Williamson might will be playing in test matches for us in the near future because we've got a test side as we mentioned earlier that's going to be playing against Afghanistan in India. I understand all that hasn't been confirmed. There's a couple of games in Sri Lanka before the Test series against India, so that's going to be a spin friendly competition for five six Test matches. Then they come home to play
against England. What sort of side are we going to have if you had a chant to have a look at the players. There's some replacements, but you know, the likes of Sauvi and those more experienced players are still probably going to be in the Test matches when they come.
Well, not not necessarily, Brian, not if we are a bit more bold about approaching this transition phase between one side that has been very good and got terrific results but now is aging slightly. And you know, I don't want to be age just about that, but it does affect, you know, especially if you are a faster bowler. It's such a you know, a physical a physical thing that you have to do. I think one of the problems that is emerging is that we don't have a seam
bowler or a faster bowler who bats. There's no there's no Dion Nash around nowadays. There's no Hadley, there's no Headley who bats, you know, what I mean around Nathan Smith might be one that is coming onto the edge of the scene, but I mean we've just got to play O'Rourke to join Henry and see us. Now none of those guys bat so already as far as our batting length is concerned, we've only got eight now, and then we've got those three. You know there won't be
a Coogar line around. He's not taken a contract and so on. Sourly, I don't think can can manage it, to be honest, against that England side, whether it's Duffy, and then you shorten the line of the batting as well, So there's it's starting to become a bit of an issue obviously if Conway's there and then it's late in Conway and then you have Williamson, Mitchell, Ravendra Phillips in any order put a number beside them and blundles how blundles? How does blundle go? And he only plays test cricket,
he doesn't play short form cricket anyway. You know, is it going to be a spinner? Is Brace going to be there or is you know Ravender's there already, Phillips would be there, but they're half spinners, So there is a little bit of an issue starting to come together there.
For me, I'd agree with you, Jerry, and I think you could contrast what England have done with their Test side, where where they've politely moved ander Salon now now in they're coaching ranks I gather and bestow and bestow and folks. Yeah, they've they've they've been quite decisive. Uh, and clearly with
the Night of the Future. Now, I don't know whether whether that's in our DNA here, it hasn't seemed that they wanted to adopt that, but I would have thought we're in a transitional phase here where I'm seeing some pretty talented young younger cricketers around.
Yeah, there's plenty of young cricketers coming through, but perhaps a bit too young for the international scene at the moment. But specifically the side that goes to India and Sri Lanka before coming home for the series, they've got all these spinners now on contract. How many spinners do they take? Do they take them all? Sent a Patel Sody braceball along with Phillips.
It is.
It's becoming more that we're getting more spin options that we are seemers really, aren't we. That's quite quite extraordinary. I don't know what they'll take once. Are they taking fifteen?
Yeah? Generally the fifteen the number that they put on those squads. You can take others that only fifteen get paid for when you bear in mind the support crew that generally there's two for one, isn't there in terms of the people who go along there to be batting coach, bowling coach, fielding coach and mental skills coach and all those other coaches that they seem to require to use. So it's going to be an interesting challenge for the selectors.
But you know, they're the names for people that we need to consider. There's not too many in the frame. And it's interesting what you say about Southy. He's our test captain.
I know, but I'm sorry that you can't unless he changes and unless the pictures are doing something going up and down.
He was much more effective in the T twenty, wasn't he.
I'm just talking about the pictures only, and I don't think our pictures. We play England at Hagley Oval Base and Reserve and said in part when they come here England, I'm talking about they're not going to be up and down. I don't think at all. Maybe the flatter pictures. Again, you've got to have faster bowl as wads to get the difference and bounce rather than medium pace, which is what Tim Sowdy is at the moment. So I don't think, you know, I don't think he can use I mean
they'll probably take him. That's the difference between the McCullum pipe selections and the way that we select sides here, isn't it really? I think England was as far as England is concerned, because they're coming here and we've seen them play recently. I mean, they've got a pretty predictable style, wouldn't you say.
Yeah, we know what they're going to do. They're playing attacking cricket and that's the way they go about things, the bass ball, et cetera. And they've proven against the West Indies. They won the last Test in under three days, didn't they.
Oh, well, the margins the margins were huge, weren't they against the Western and innings and one hundred and fourteen in the first Test, two hundred and forty one in the second Test and ten wickets and they.
Got the eighty four required.
As you're talking about that third Test there they slaughtered them in seven overs, didn't they. So you know, I think they have quite a prediction. So New Zealand are going to be offered I think long periods to bat in that series, England will score more quickly. New Zealand don't need to get into a competition with them. What they've got to do is, for a start, they've got to get enough runs and they can use the time. If they can bat for four or five sessions, they
do it. And they perhaps if they can bat for say nine sessions in the Test match and he's in it in the two innings, they will leave England to get the same number of runs and six that kind of thing. That's what we've got to kind of start to think about holding our catches and as far as the bowlers are concerned, move the ball. And I'm afraid we've got to be accurate as well, because we saw what happened to the West Indies when they didn't have
the accuracy. We've seen the issues when coogar Line and Techno bold to them. Last time England were here, they got smashed. Brooke took them apart, didn't he? And Root and so we've got to be we've got to be good bowlers, move the ball and be accurate, so you know it's going to be an interesting series. And I would like to think that we didn't bowl too short too often, not as a plan. Short short, short, do.
You know what I mean?
I think it's it's keep the ball up New Zealand as a place we nibble the ball, isn't it isn't that that hasn't changed, So I think we don't want to bowl too short when we more employment, you just use the delivery as a variety by all means.
It's particularly if you've got pace.
But you know said how they can't do it at his pace, not anymore.
No, and they're going to be a better side when they get there too, aren't they paid?
No question?
No question?
Uh. And I think that we New Zealans this is a precursor to to what they would view as their their their main course, which is the ashes. And you can see the side that England is developing and they're getting wood bowling extreme express. It's very exciting to watch that with my dad. Got Atkinson bows a heavy ball. By the look of it, You've got wokes who can bat and while getting wire kids. This is a pretty good side that they're looking at here and players who
can go quick. The Smith jery that you talked about the keeping.
Yeah, he's a good player.
He looks good and you can sort of see where they're look into. And I applaud, which I wouldn't have always done, McCallum and his people for making the calls that they have now early, and that's perhaps a lesson for us because this looks I think it's going to be exciting cricket fabulous. I can't wait.
Yeah, well, you make a fair point there. I was interested when Smith got out for ninety five. They were crying in the commentary box because he didn't get a hundred.
You know.
I know a hundred's an important milestone for any individual cricketer. But I always remember one New Zealand cricketer telling me when he was out for ninety nine that he'd much rather dwell on what he got than what he didn't get. And I thought that was a pretty good attitude. That I got ninety nine, I've got to be happy with that, and I think that's that's fair enough. Hunters will come the way of Smith. He looks at that sort of player.
He's uh, he said, he's just a different middle t laa order batsman.
I thought he kept well two guys I don't know because I didn't notice.
Them, you know what I mean.
He kind of just he got down low, he took the catchers. Whereas when I was over watching the ashes, you did notice Johnny Bearstow because he wasn't having a particularly good time. And that's what happens with keepers. I think the best keepers you just you know, you you think, oh that's been taken on. That was nicely taken, wasn't it. But he didn't make a fuss about it, you know.
And and so I thought he had a pretty good series, he and Atkinson, what what you mentioned Atkinson and the Basha to a certain extent, he didn't have much chance because he didn't bowl the second innings very often. So I thought all those three, you know, of the guys that were talked about before that series, I thought they had good series.
This year is interesting, isn't it. And again they they they moved on Leech who you know, Yeah, that bad been pretty pretty useful and good wik ad taken. But this year they've they've got that person who's tall gets loop bounce and again thinking about Australia and for that matter, if you think about what happened at the Basin and what Lion did there this year, which was a bit of a surprise to us, all got.
Bounce so and Phillips yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But when you've got that that height, but you know they've they've clearly thought through for a person who I think had only played a few first class games, when when when when he debuted in India this year all last year, it's quite insightful from from that lot over there, and again, as I say it again, perhaps we ever listened to learn here from New Zealand.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what Thiss do when they pick their side. We haven't got much cricket for the next few weeks. I think you're going are playing Sri Lanka. That's not too far away, I guess guys. It's going to have to be the Olympic Games and good to see ladies sevens team doing the business and getting the first gold for New Zealand. We've got to shoes to talk about quite clearly, from what happens when we get the contracts sorted and of the selection of
the side. So thank you very much for your input. You guys, you can watch a bit of Olympics most and enjoy it.
I show indeed was rather liking the archery at the moment.
Oh, I'm actually I'm liking the women's of each volleyball. That's quite good.
And you Jerry, Yeah, I'm waiting for the digger hole competition.
Is that in there this year? Yeah?
It's getting bigger too.
I'm digging it for myself at the moment. Yeah.
All right, guys, thanks very much. Talk to you again.
Yeah, we'll do onds.
You better get off and learn those volleyball rules, haven't you, so you can then riff your women's game.
It's the technique I'm after. See you next week.
All right. Cheers, vunties us Summers.
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