At the time, no one was sure what was going to happen. There were not a lot of believers. In fact, like there had actually been a really well known article that had been published the week before we bought YouTube that said only a moron would buy YouTube, and that was actually like a headline news story that ran and they didn't understand user generated content. They didn't understand that average people can post content and have that be really
successful and that other people would want to see it. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn
and grow. Now you know that I'm always excited to dive into the minds of people who've done phenomenal things, taken incredible leaps, maybe started things with a bit of risk and excitement, and we're here to unpack how they did that, what they did, what they think they got right, the failures they went through, the journey that they've carved for themselves. And today's guest is Susan Wijiski, the CEO of YouTube, the world's most popular digital video platform used
by more than a billion people across the globe. To access information, share video, and shape culture. An early champion of online video who was instrumental in Google's two thousand and six acquisition of YouTube, Susan now oversees YouTube's content and business operations, engineering and product development. Please welcome to the show, Susan Wijiski. Susan, thank you so much for doing this, for being here, for giving us this access into your incredible mind in life. And it's been wonderful
sharing a few moments of pleasantries with you previously. But I'm very excited for this interview. Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I've obviously you know. For me, YouTube has been massive instrumental in my personal journey and so this is truly an honor for me. I remember sitting in a ethnic minority TV training day run by the BBC in London,
and so they're doing this ethnic minority presenter's training. They were around six people brown and black people in a room. I signed up to see if I had any skills to be in the world of presenting in media, and at the end of it they said to me, they said, Jay, You've got some really good skills and we really think you should pursue this career. And I was like, great,
do you have a job at the BBC? Obviously I'm born and raised in London, And I said, do you have any jobs at the BBC or anywhere in media? I'll start for like next to nothing. I just really want to be in this world because I believe I have a message to share. And I remember them looking at me with blank faces and they said to me there's no jobs in media and there's no jobs in this industry. And I said, well, did you just invite six ethnic minority people to tell us there's no jobs
in media? And they literally said to me, they said you should start a YouTube channel. And my reaction to them was well that only works for justin the evil Like that was literally the thought in my head. And here we are today, so very grateful to you, very grateful to YouTube on on such a deep level. But I want to talk about you today before YouTube appreciate
That's right. And I've heard that from so many YouTube creators where they wanted to get started, they tried and for whatever reason, they were not successful on the traditional media path, and then they started a YouTube channel and had tons of success. Afterwards, and that's actually added a lot of diversity in backgrounds and people, and also they're what they want to cover as well and type of content that we're covering. So I love hearing stories like that,
So thank you for sharing. Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And I want to talk about YouTube today, of course, but I do want to talk about your life before and be on YouTube. And I think what I was fascinated about most And I don't know if people know this, but a lot of people may not recognize that you actually studied history and literature and university and now of course
you're a huge tech icon. I'm intrigued by what drew you towards history and literature and have they been useful at all to this journey and technology that you've had so successfully. So I definitely was a humanities major. And if you had asked me when I started college whether or not i'd wind up working in tech, I would not. I would have definitely said no, and I would not have believed you if if you had told me that I would be doing that later on in my career.
And I love history and literature. I love looking back at what has happened, reading hearing stories and storytelling. And I really only discover technology when I was a senior in college that I took my first computer science class as a scene you're in college, and that completely changed
my life. But what I saw in it in some ways is consistent with the history and literature, which is that I love being creative and making things and like doing art and all kinds of projects, and I saw technology as a way of extending that creativity of doing and creating products that could be used by people all over the world. And that's what I fell in love
with when I started working on technology. And I do think the history and literature has been extremely useful, especially now, because we deal with a lot of issues that are not just black and white. There are a lot of ethical issues, there are a lot of people issues, and we're dealing with a lot of storytellers, particularly on YouTube,
who are covering a broad range of topics. And so having a background where you have understood and spent time training to interpret different meanings of books and literature and what it means and has really helped me. And combining both the technology as well as the humanities and putting that together has been really helpful to me in my career.
Was there any part of you that felt a sense of imposter syndrome or self doubt when you were moving into that space, or did you have a confidence that you'd be able to apply those skills and your passion
almost pulled you in that direction. When I started, the Internet hadn't really come of age yet as we know it today, and so a lot of people were really confused, like why do you want to work in technology, and especially all the people that I was working with, who all the people that were studying history and literature, were completely confused, like why are you taking computer science? And I even remember one of my job I had no idea what I was going to do when I graduate
from CALL, I literally had no idea. I graduated with no job. I had no idea where I was going. And I remember talking to a career counselor and telling them that I was thinking about working in technology, and she was so confused and she kept saying like, I don't see you as a that kind of person because
a lot of people were not working in technology. And I think the insight I had was was that A this is a really big growing field and that it's actually going to be creative, and it's it's going to be a lot more than just people who are coders behind a computer, like writing lots and lots of code. There were going to be all these implications for what it meant and how the technology we would use and the storytelling that went into the technology or that came
out of the technology. And so that for me what I was really interested in. And I mean there were definitely times where people were just really and there still are sometimes really confused, like what are you doing here? But you know, I just really persisted, and I've loved what I do, and so if I can get back to the parts that I love, then that helps me get through whatever is the hard time. I think that's going to be really comforting for people to hear when
they understand your journey. And now when you look back, I think it's always easy to see people have these incredible wins and successes and not recognize that they've had their own challenges or pivots or moments of uncertainty. But taking a trip down memory lane and looking into history, I understand that you lent your garage to Larry Page
and Sergey Brin, the founders of Google. Of course, and I was talking about it with my team literally two seconds before we went live, and I was sharing that with them, and I was like, there's so much history there. When you think about the things that have had such a big impact on the world, Google and YouTube without a doubt have had, you know, colossal amounts of impact and influence on the world today and continue on the future. When you gave them that space, what was honestly going
through your head? Like, what was truly going through your mind at the time. People think I had a bigger plan when I gave them the space. I think there was some grand strategy and they were this amazing company and I was so lucky. People would say questions like, oh, how did you how did you get that? Like how did you have them rent the garage? And the reality is I just wanted the rent. I just wanted the
rent payment. Um that was my I know that might not seem super inspirational at this moment, but the reality is I was a student. I just graduated from business school. I had student debt, but I had managed to buy a house and it wasn't that big a house. But the thing is, Sergey and Larry were further behind me. They were living in the dorms um so they didn't have the house and they needed a place to start
their company. And this was this was nineteen ninety eight, and this time was it was a huge boom, and so like every billboard on the freeway was like of a dot com company. There was no space anywhere. And so they you know, they knew me. I knew them beforehand as and so they knew I had about this house and I had moved also still it had just stopped being at Graduate students, so I didn't think I needed all this space. And so I said, Okay, well i'll rent it to you. And I'm worried about covering
the mortgage. I might not have enough money, so I'll rent it to you. And they moved in and it was, you know, it was actually pretty fun. That's amazing. I actually prefer that answer. That's that's a brilliant answer, and it's so relatable and believable. And now I think, I think you're going to inspire a lot of people to let people rent their spaces just based on that story. So if you have founders come knocking at your door, everyone's going to be like, yeah, sure you can have
my space hoping hoping. That's amazing. I think one of the most favorite moments in a YouTuber's journey is is getting their plaques for reaching these milestones with a letter signed by you. And of course you initiated the proposal of acquiring YouTube back in two thousand and six. That sounds like a much more intentional, focused, strategic decision than
letting Larry and serge Rent space. So tell us about what was going through your mind at the time, because again, I think it's so easy to look at YouTube today and say, oh, of course it was going to do well, and you know, but there were so many other platforms. How did you know that YouTube had this potential? What did you see that was happening culturally in the world, not even in technology, What was happening happening in culture and consumer behavior that made you understand that YouTube was
going to be something different. At the time, no one was sure what was going to happen. There were not a lot of believers. In fact, like there had actually been a really well known article that had been published the week before we bought YouTube that said only a moron would buy YouTube, and that was actually like a headline news story that ran and people did not understand that.
They didn't understand user generated content. They didn't understand that average people can post content and have that be really successful and that other people would want to see it. And that was something that I was lucky I had some understanding of it because Google had been working and we had built a product called Google Video, and so Google Video. You know, I had seen two different things that really led me to being sure that YouTube had
a future. The first of which was that people wanted to share their stories. So, like we said, you know, upload your content here. We weren't always we didn't guarantee that they were going to have views or revenue or any of the things that we guarantee today. And yet all these people would upload and share their videos. So there was just something very human and people wanting to share and connect be found, be understood, and then you know,
and I think that that's reasonable. I think people generally understand that people want to be share their stories. But what really surprised me and was less understood, was that people want to see other people's stories, right, And this was a time where all there was, like the only
thing we knew was studios and highly produced content. And so suddenly you have somebody and they're filming in their bedroom or they just upload something of them doing something funny in their backyard, and a lot of traditional media people thought that this was really low quality content because the content had been produced by people who were not professionals,
without the same type of cost or studio equipment. But yet it was really really compelling, and so what mattered is people loved it, and we saw we had one hit. And this was the first one that really convinced me was we had these two students. They were singing in
their dorm room. They have their roommate in the background doing his homework throughout this entire performance, and it just brought a smile and a laugh to everyone's faces, and we got millions of views, and I realized that anyone can have a hit, and as a result of that, YouTube will create this new form of content and there'll be a lot of success for that going forward. Yeah.
I love hearing that because I do think that it is a surprise seeing how much so many technologies that come together to make it a success, to the access to making high quality video or even video from your bedroom, I mean, you know, even how that's evolved at the same time, and to see that all coming together and people today I think being attracted more to that authentic content, more to that relatable content, more to that person next
door content is really fascinating. I mean, you're running the most famous video sharing platform in the world. It sounds like an exciting, stressful, hectic job. I want you to walk us through what a day in your life looks like, because I think when you think about YouTube CEO and you think about the journey you've been on since two thousand and six, I don't quite think we know what you you every day and what you're going through every day. So could you walk us through from the moment you
wake up to the moment you go to bed. But what's what's happening in your day? Well, first of all, I am not a super early riser. I wish I were, but I'm not. So I usually wake up at the last minute possible to still get my kids off to school, and so I try to wake up, get them, get breakfast, everything ready. Then I need to exercise every morning. If
I don't, I am really grumpy. I need that fresh air and exercise, stretching, just some opportunity to connect with nature and do something physical, and then I go to work, you know now with COVID and hybrid and everything. Sometimes I'm working at home, sometimes I'm working in the office and they're at say, my time is really focused on what I think are most is most important for me
to get done. It's the CEO of YouTube and is a variety of different aspects I'm going to start with, Like you know, one of them is to under is to meet with my key reports and understand what they are all working on, and to also to review the future products that we're building and understanding where is YouTube going.
So I should understand like what is YouTube going to look like, not today, but what it looks like a couple of years from now, and are we positioned based on what's happening in the external environment to be successful. So if I look at the future and estimate like, this is what the future holds in two years or three years, are we set up to be successful then? And in order to do that, I need to know a lot of times like, well, what's broken within the
company today? And what I worry about the most often is when there's something really important for us to get done that nobody in the company is working on like there's like generally, like our core parts of our business, we have really great people and they're smart and they know everything you know better than I do. They do it all the time. But there can be gaps that companies have, and those gaps can cause big issues if you don't address it. So in some level, I'm looking
at like what's broken? Where are the gaps? How can I help fix it and make sure that we're set up for success in the future. And then I go home and I have dinner with my family, and you know, my kids tell me all the ways I'm screwing up probably, and you know, we have dinner and put them to bed, and I usually read. I try not to do too much email at night because I find otherwise I get really wired and I can't go to bed on times I like to read, have a chance to reflect on
other things before I go to bed. Has that changed over time, Susan? Do you think there was a point in your career where you were more focused on sending emails in the evening and having to do that. Has that balance changed over time or is that something that has always been that way, where You've been good at kind of trying to shut off at least as we all try and attempt to do that. Yeah. Well, so when I first joined Google, just to really date myself
because Google, I've been at Google now for twenty three years. Like, we didn't actually didn't have the ability to read emails at home when I first started. That was like and now I see that was a blessing, but that we got over that pretty quick. You know. One of the things that has helped me, and I believe it's given me some of the longevity because tech, you can really burn out. In tech, you can overdo it, work really
hard and then say you need a break. And what has helped me in many ways is the fact of how I've balanced my work and my family. And in many ways, the fact that I have always had to be home for my family has made it be that I have to have hard stops in terms of my work. And you know, my children, when they're in a daycare, you have to be there exactly on time, and if you're not, you're charged a dollar a minute. So there's no option to be late. You must finish at that time.
And that has helped me in many ways like segment my life of like here's my work and I only have from this time. This time you get it done, and then I have my family life and making sure that I try to keep those separate. And that's actually it's hard to do that. A lot of times people will think about work when they're at home or home when they're at work, and so being able to separate them has really helped me and try to turn off my work when I'm at home. But yeah, it's definitely
been something I've worked on and I've gotten better at overtime. Yeah, No, it's it's made me think about I think I was. Someone was telling me that the show the other day called things called severance, where it's based on this concept of whether when you're at work your memory of home doesn't exist, and there's a piece of tech that when you're at home your memory of work doesn't exist. And you know, it's it's an interesting thought to think about,
like what would life be like? But it sounds like the most high performing leaders and CEOs are actually able to bring those two worlds into one another to improve it. I mean, you mentioned in an interview that if you could describe your management style in one word. You would say, it's supportive, and I thought that was really quite unique. I work with a lot of leaders, I've coached a lot of organizations, companies, and I don't often hear that word.
I really believe it's quite unique. When did you decide that that was going to be your style? And how does it look in reality? Because I think we all have connotations of what the word supportive looks like. But as a CEO, i'd love to know, Yeah, when did it kind of feel like, yeah, that's my style, and then what does it look like in reality? Well, so I would say I definitely am a supportive CEO, but
there are other things too. Probably i'd like to add visionary too, because I do think, especially in tech, it's important to be one step ahead. I'm understanding what the future is and how you get the company there. So i'd like to say I'm like very supportive in helping the company get to what's the right future. And of course there are her decisions. I mean, there are times where you make a hard decision and that has to be it like you to you got to make it,
and if you don't know, the company will suffer. So you have to be willing to make those hard decisions. But one of the reasons I said supportive at the time, and I do believe that's an important part of running a company, is that for me, it's really important to understand what's actually going on in the company. And it's possible as CEO that everybody tells you how good everything is.
That you know that their product is great, it's getting lots of views, it's doing all the right things, they have the right roadmap, and there are a lot of problems, and they're not necessarily going to tell you what the problems are, and so as a CEO, you need to figure out what they are. And if you are a scary person that everyone is really worried about, they're a lot less likely to tell you about what the problems are.
And so I've really wanted to take an approach where people are open with me, that they understand that we can talk about what's going well, but also what's not going well, and then I will work with them to fix it. And there are a lot of things that don't go well. I acknowledge that, and I want to actually talk with my teams about what's not going well, where are the problems and how do we get to a plan to fix it? Because if you don't get that plan, if you don't acknowledge it and you don't
then it's never going to get fixed. And so that's one of the reasons I said supportive. Yeah, I find that refreshing. And definitely I think the balance of maintaining leadership but also being supportive and being able to talk about and receive feedback on what's not working requires a lot of adaptability. It requires a lot of openness as well, and so you know, I can feel that that may be challenging to definitely practice on a day to day basis.
I mean, how do you communicate to someone on a day to day basis that you're like, you're there for them, that you're supportive, you're open, you're approachable, Like what does that look like? Well, how do you make someone aware of that? I was really lucky I was able to work with this person named Bill Campbell, and he if you look up like the coach of Silicon Valley, you'll you'll read about Bill Campbell, and he was I was
fortunate to work with him for many years. He also was a coach to Larry Page and Sergey Bryan and the Google management team, and also um Steve Jobs. Um. He would he would they were very close, and he would always say it's all about the people. That that was one of his big lines, is that you really
have to get to know the people. And he would talk about when you have your one on ones, you need to take them really seriously, and you need to get to know the people first, and you need to know what's going on, what makes them tick, how to support them, and he cared, he really cared. And UM, like, I'll actually tell you this like specific example. So I remember once we had some performance review and and for variety of reasons, there was something in this performance review
that upset me. Um doesn't it doesn't really matter what it was, but there was something in it that upset me, and I thought it was really unfair, and I, you know, sent some emails and said I was really upset about it. And he knew that I was upset about it, and so he said, you know, call me, I want to talk to you about it. And of course, like I wasn't calling him back, and at eleven o'clock at night, he called me at home because he was just oh, by the way, I was leaving on vacation. The next day,
he called me at home because he really cared. I knew he cared about me, and he talked to me. He said, look, I understand that wasn't fair. I'm going to fix it for you. I don't want you to worry about it. I remember he said, like, go on vacation, like hug, your kids, have a great time, don't worry about this, and when we come back, we'll address it. And you know, that to me made me feel like somebody really cares about me. He went to this extra effort.
He didn't have to call me at eleven o'clock at night, but he did. And so I that's just a perfect example about feeling that you really cared for that person. And and as a result, I would go the extra mile for him. I would do whatever he needed because I knew he was there for me. I mean, that's fantastic and also speaks to the value of coaching mentorship, having that guidance which I think so many of us think we have to do it alone, or that a lot of the people we look up to have just
been figuring it out all for themselves. But the value of coaching the value of having mentors in our lives is profound and can be so impactful, especially at tough times. I think I think a lot of the times we try and these days document how great leaders deal with failure and how they've overcome failure. But I think something I find really fascinating is also how they deal with success.
And You've had so many career defining moments, I'm sure, and I'd love to hear about the one you're most proud of, But what I'm most interested in is how have you learned to celebrate better? Or has celebration or has acknowledging where you are being an important part of the journey or actually is it like, well, I don't really think about that because we're on to the next thing. So I guess that's a two part question, like what's been a career defining moment? And where as celebration stacked
in the journey of reaching new milestones and peaks. You know, when I think about my career as a whole, it's hard to celebrate it in its entirety. That's just a reality.
I realized that people just move on. They're like, great, you did that thing, but you know what's coming next, And I tend to focus my celebration on what's happening right now, like what are what are the events that are happening today that matter for our teams, And they may be moments that crystallize that success, like you know, a product that launches, or you know, if we identified an issue a year ago, Like let's say we identified something on our survey, like our creators are upset about
a specific you know issue, and then it's been you know, we had a team working on it to fix it, and then it's been a year and we got a new survey back that says, you know, your twenty points higher on that that matters. Like so I really I want to celebrate the big successes but also the little successes and focus on what we do now. And I worry if you spend too much time talking about like, oh, all these things that have happened and like, yes, we
went from like a garage to a big company. I mean yes, like yes, I celebrate that, but but I celebrate that for like a second, and then have to focus on what we're dealing with today because that's that's what matters, and you know, and also celebrate some of the small moments that happened, what's happening today, and the
people who like people. It's actually really interesting. People are always asking me, just whenever I ask questions about things that are just affecting their daily life, like what's happening like office space and whether people are coming back into the office, and what our COVID policy is and all these like little things, like these little things really really matter to people, Like yesterday, we just had a really nice off site where everyone came and like what got
to meet each other's family and be outside have a beautiful day, Like it was great, Like I left that feeling fantastic. That's so fascinating because it sounds like the internal successes that are almost invisible to the outside world are actually sometimes more satisfying. And it's really interesting in a world where we're so used to celebrating our success is publicly, the private successes are actually the ones that
bring us the most joy. So the things that people don't know about, may never hear about, may never see externally, can sometimes be the most fulfilling. I feel like that's what I'm hearing, or at least or at least what I'm taking away. I mean, there will be timesterable. We'll do a launch and people will be well received and we're like, yeah, that's great, I'm glad this product is doing really well, or that it's it's getting this kind of adoption. But those moments just don't happen that much.
And the reality is most of the things that we're doing are what we're dealing with it in the every day, and how do we make sure that what we're doing in the every day is celebrated? And also, you know, I don't want to pin our happiness or the happiness of the company either, just on what the external point of view is, Like, I think it's really important for us to have an understanding like these are our metrics,
this is what we think is important. If you disagree, like we can have a conversation about what our internal metrics should be or how they should be changed, or how we should measure that. But the external world is rocky and bumpy and unpredictable, and they don't have the same set of information that we do. And so I don't want us to just be swung back and forth like, oh, now they love us, now they hate us. We're happy, we're sad. You know, every wonder at the company would
be completely confused, like what's going on? It was good and now it's bad. And I have to be able to explain consistently to the company about you know, where we're going, are we doing a good job, and make sure that then we celebrate when we work hard to achieve what we said set out to achieve. Yeah, I know a lot of young people see you as an inspiration.
Is you know, being one of the iconic people in tech today and you know, what do you think is a good reason for a young person today, especially young women as well, to pursue careers in technology, Like what would be a good reason or intention for getting into technology that you think could inspire younger generations. I would say it's a great career for everyone in all backgrounds.
And one of the things that I've been really concerned about is not seeing enough diversity and not seeing enough women but all different backgrounds, like just not seeing a lot of diverse enough diversity overall in tech. And if you look at change in our society, it's a lot of it is coming from tech, and so who are the people that are changing it? Who are the ones that are driving that you want it to be a
diverse set of people. And I think that tech has at least traditionally had an image of being a very difficult place to work, fast moving, long hours, like you have to be a like coder who spends you know, one hundred hours a week behind your computer. And so people who have that perception are driven away and they don't want to join technology and they don't want to
join it as a field. But the reality is that we need those diverse voices and backgrounds to come in and to help figure out and shape what that future is and reasons to go into it, you know, as you're asking, is like you can make a difference. Your products are used by you know, millions of people all over the world. It's a good career, There's there's always going to be demand for your skills, and so I think it's a really important area for us to have
more diversity. I think computer science should be taught to everyone at school, and the reason that it's not taught at school right now is basically because they're not enough resources, Like there's not enough computers, they're not enough computer science teachers who can teach it, and so as a result, it's given to a smaller set of people and they
don't have it's harder to get those skills. And then a lot of times, like the introductory you know, computer science course is not really as introductory as it really should be, and so people join in and think it's hard and they're like, oh, this is really hard, and they drop out. But I think it should be taught everywhere and the introductory lush to truly be introductory. And if you did that, a lot more people would understand like, Oh,
this isn't the hard. I can do it. I can get jobs, I can make change, I can be part of this trend and industry and make a difference, and that would be really welcome. Yeah, I mean how far Obviously the tech industry has changed so much while you've been in it. How much further do you think it has to go? Like, what is that change that's needed, what are the shifts that are required to get it
to where you see the future of it? And how much has it progressed during the time you've been in it and leading, Well, it's definitely changed a lot since I've been in it. I mean I know that from when I started till now, it's well, the industry is much bigger, but it is a much more diverse industry than it is then it was when I started, for sure. And I would say I do see change across the board, Like if you look at you know, who's taking the intro to computer science class and you look at the
percentages of how many women are graduating. If you look at most universities, one of their biggest classes now is the introductory to computer science class, like and that is in fact, a lot of schools are saying like, oh my gosh, we have too many computer science majors. We want people to go back to study the classics and you know, humanities, And it's true, we need all kinds of people. So I do see it changing, but it's
just not changing fast enough. There's still like when we look at our overall stats, there's still not enough women here. But you know, I think it makes a difference. Like I was thinking, like who were my role models when I started, Like who? And I can only remember one woman that I really looked up to when I started,
which was Donna Dubinski who started Palm. And now I think if you're a young woman, they're like a lot of companies have been started there are a lot of women founders, and there's all there's you know, there's a whole range of tech from like hardware to you know, fintech to bio tech right to consumer software. So there's many different areas and I think there are a lot more role models too. How do you find as the
sea of YouTube? Like when you're playing this role, I feel like, as you were saying, the industry is moving so fast, there's so many things constantly changing. How have you figured out how do you know when YouTube is changing fast enough or not fast enough? Like how do you decide whether you're iterating quickly enough or not? And what is the scale and what's the spectrum with which you rate yourself on. I mean, I often feel like
we're not changing fast enough. That's like, that's actually like when I have anxiety, that's like one of the things I have anxiety about. Like, Wow, the industry is changing
so quickly and we can't always change fast enough. And that's just the reality to like the systems and the people and how we build and so at the end of the day, it has to be a prioritization like what are the most important things to YouTube and why let's put we have to put our people there and make sure that what we do we do that really well,
and realize that we can't do everything. I mean, we're talking here right on a podcast, and that's like an area where I would have liked to invest invested more. If like you had asked me two or three years ago, I would have said, yeah, I know, I know, this is a big area. I know this is really important.
It's important to our creators, important to our users. But we only have so many people and so many resources, and we need to focus on what is important to you to the platform and what's core to the platform. And like we're actually doing a lot with podcasts now, which I'm excited about, and so there'll be lots of good things coming. But if you had asked me, you know, a few years ago, I would have said, yes, I see it, and I understand it, and I want us
to get there. But there were just there were a lot of other things too that we need to do. And that's probably one of the hardest aspects of the job, is doing that prioritization and realizing that there's some really important stuff that we're just not going to be able to get to. We can't do everything. You have to choose and make some heart decisions. Yeah, I know. I know. It's exciting though, and I'm excited about that because obviously I believe. I remember my team was sharing with me.
I sat the other day separate of this conversation, but I don't know it exactly, but it was around the idea that you know, the number one platform where podcasts are being viewed for the longest amount of time is YouTube, obviously, and so the fact that it's almost that, yeah, the almost. The fact that it's happened in an opposite way is great because you know people are already using the platform
in that way. I know it's been incredible for us from the video, but we always wanted a video version of the show, and you know, it's always been YouTube first in the way it's been edited and designed, and we know that that's where it's consumed. And to me, that's what's so beautiful about the platform is often you're able to then see the stats and the data and
then I guess invest accordingly and prioritize accordingly. So very excited personally and for the rest of the podcast a community for the advancements and announcements that have come from
that area. If there was a warning season that someone could have given you before the beginning of your career, what do you think it would have been if there was a warning, maybe just a piece of advice, but something that you would have liked a bid of caution around, because I think when we start something, we can be highly optimistic and then we start to learn the reality
of a situation. What would have been useful One of the things, you know, when I look at my career, like certainly being persistent, Like there are a lot of setbacks. I don't want to say like it's always been easy or everyone's always been nice and friendly and helpful, Like there have been a lot of hard times. But for me, it's been really important just to be persistent and to
not give up and to believe. And for me, a lot of it has been just that I believe in the mission of what we're doing and providing information and access and enabling people to have jobs and and share their voices and tell their stories. And when people tell me about how that's made a difference for them, like that makes all the hard times worthwhile. That like that just makes them all melt away. And so having the
mission has helped a lot. But you know, a certainly understanding that it's going to be hard, it's not going to be easy, and you can't give up. You have
to just stick with it. Is there a habit that you've developed over time, a discipline, a habit, a mantra and affirmation, a practice that you feel has made life easier, that you feel like if young people, if if anyone listening, not just young people, but if anyone wants to develop that it would massively support their career and support their life.
Has there been something that you point towards. Well, for me, it's been balanced, like I have to take time off, Like if I'm working all the time, it's it's not healthy, and I actually don't think I do good work either, Like I want to say, it's a combination of both. So for me, I have to have my weekends off. I have to have a time where I actually just
turn off my job and just completely reset. And I find that it doesn't happen right away, like it actually takes time for that to happen, and but then when I come back to the work, I actually have a better understanding of what needs to get done. And things it seemed really important suddenly don't seem as important two days later, and so having some balance is really really important. I mean yes, and you know, certainly having your family time in the evenings and sleep and exercise like that's
given a lot of longevity. I mean, I've been in this industry for a long time and I've done this job for a long time, and that is what has kept me going, is just being able to keep that balance. I think the other thing, too, is when I get really frustrated with something, I just stop doing it. I mean that's another area. And it could be a few things, like it could be like something like I'm just having a really bad day, like over, got to just go
to bed, do something different, not think about it. But also sometimes like when we're when we're having a product and it's like we'll try something multiple times and it's not working, just we have to try a different approach. Just acknowledge like this is not working. Let's just try something completely different and maybe bring in people who are not on that team or from different teams, different perspective,
and try something a whole different approach. So I think all of that type of balance gives perspective and helps you do a better job. I'm sure that would surprise a lot of people too, because often we hear the opposite. That it makes so much sense that to be creative and to be effective, we need downtime, we need stillness, we need space, we need space to think, space to imagine. And and you shared in an interview as well that
your mom has been an inspiration for you. I wanted to hear about how you know the role she played in that journey for you, because I think it's It's always interesting. I think we hear both stories, sometimes when people feel limited and restricted by their parents and sometimes supported. What was it for you that she's played such a pivotal role my mom is, um, well, you know you should call you should talk to her. I'm sure she would love me on your show. Um my mom always
has something to say. Um, let's start start with that. And um, she actually wrote a book about being a parent and she likes to You can look her up on YouTuber Google and learn a lot about my mom. Um. But you know, in many ways, the fact that my mom always had something to say was like as a kid, was was horrifying. Um, you know, I she would embarrass me. She would complain, she would tell people how things weren't done the way she on it, or she would protest,
or she always has she always had an opinion. So my mom is a teacher. I will say that my mom is an amazing teacher. She's been a teacher for fifty plus year. She literally she literally she retired during COVID and when she was eighty and she started in her twenties, so she literally is an expert teacher. But she really believes in giving people in like stating her opinion and not holding back and thinking for yourself. And there were times that as a kid that was a
really horrifying thing because she would be embarrassing me. And you know, she also says like, look, if you're wronged and something happens to you, like you go to a place and they you know, it's not as advertised or they charge you something different and you don't say anything, then you're actually making it hurder for the next person who comes along, Like that next person is going to also have that same negative experience. And so it's your duty and response ability to speak up and to try
to fix it. And so as a kid, I was always like worry, like what was my mom going to say and do? And but that that helped in many ways because in business you have to be willing to speak up and say what you think and not be afraid if people are criticizing you. And so in many ways, I was like inoculated against being embarrassed as a kid
because I was embarrassed so many times. And I think also just taught me to think for yourself, that if people are saying things that don't make any sense, you should just think for yourself and believe in yourself and believe what you what you think, and not just go along with what's a common thought. And she's done a really good job, and she's really innovated a lot in the field of education herself by not going along and thinking her own ways about how she got her students
to think for themselves. She's a journalism teacher, so she's taught a lot about gotten a lot of students to write stories and to question and to ask her hard questions and then be willing to say it and to write it. And that has gone a long way. She has a big, a big fan club of students. That's that's incredible. I wonder how when you became a mom, how did that change your view about your relationship with your own mom, but then also your relationship to work
as well. Well. My kids love having they have lots of stories about their grandmother. And you know, I think being a mom, you know, gives you appreciation for your own mom, right because you realize like, oh my gosh, this is so hard, and and you start thinking like what did my mom do? Well, what do I want to incorporate? And I'll say, like, what I learned from my mom was just the fact that she believed in
her kids. And believing in your kids and not necessarily expecting them to fit into an establish mold, like everybody has to be the same, everyone has to do like they're you know, the same classes and go the same school and get the same grades. Right, Like everyone is
an individual. Your kids are not necessarily like you, but you still have to support them to just be whoever they are, even if that's nothing with like what you are, and support them and so like my I mean, my oldest kid was really into magic for a while, right, Like I know nothing about magic. I love magic too, but I have a lot of appreciation for magic and
actually I've learned. I've changed in the sense where now I actually I am really thankful when my kids come up with some interest that I know nothing about but they want to learn about, Like how do I get into that with them? How do I support them and go on that journey with them? But I believe I got that from my mom, which was just supporting people on who they are and believing in them that they can accomplish even if it's different than what the established
norm is. Well, Susan, I've been so grateful to talk to you today. It's been such a joy hearing about you from you and learning more about you as a human, as a person, as a leader. And we end every on Purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum, So one word to one sentence, Susan, are you ready? These are your final five? Okay, I'll do O great? Great? All right. The first question is what is the best
advice you've ever received? Not to be defensive when people criticize you? Amazing? What is the worst advice you've ever received that you can't do something? Lots people like to tell you, like all the things you can't do, and I don't think they're true absolutely. Question number three, what's the biggest risk you've ever taken? Probably joining Google when I was pregnant and they had no revenue and I had a house and a mortgage and I was leaving
an established job. Amazing. Question number four, what would you say has been your biggest failure on this journey. I would just like to have more free time. That's one of the things, like even though I really try to create balance, I still need even more time than I probably have given myself. I can relate in my own way too, So I'm with you on that. One fifth and final question. If you could create one law that
everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be. Well, I would love, at least in the US, what we don't have, that is we have in many other countries is for there to be paid family leave and to
have early childhood education. And I've personally seen how important that is and it's something that we don't have for a lot of working moms, and I really think it would make a huge difference to be able to working families across the board, Like everyone is impacted, so like really supporting the youngest our youngest citizens, how to make sure that they have the right time and support. So those are things I would love for us to have.
That's a fantastic answers, Susan. It's been incredible talking to you. You know, often when I sit down with CEOs, if i'm honesty can often be challenging because there's just so many barries to what you can say and can't say. And I just want to thank you for having been so open today and been so vulnerable, and it's just been such a beautiful conversation with a grounded and very very open leader. And I'm very very thankful for that.
So thank you so much, thank you. I have a question for you, please, So from your book, I saw you offer so much wise advice across the board, and you know, I see some of the people who may need it the most, particularly are young people and teenagers, Like I want to know how, like do you offer classes, do you offer seminars, do you offer kemps? Like? I think there would be a really big opportunity for young people to learn some of the life lessons that you
provide in your book. Well, first of all, that's very kind of you, Thank you so much, and I'd say that currently, the out of my work that we've focused on up until this point has definitely been aimed at people eighteen years and older, and at this point in my life, I'm definitely starting to work with far more younger audiences and younger teens because I see the need
for that and I've always wanted to do that. I think that some of the themes that we've covered up until now are often realized at a later age and stage, whether it's passion, whether it's purpose, whether it's challenges through work and relationships. But we are as we speak, we're currently working on a lot more programming around those ages.
So I mean, I would love to partner with you figure out a way to work together to do that more because that's where my heart is too, and I too share that belief and value that you stated around really investing in our future leaders and not just saying that and talking about it, but really giving them access to those insights and ideas. So it's right there, and
it's we're right on the cusp of doing that. Okay, good, No, I think it could be really valuable, especially the pandemic has been so hard for a lot of young people it seems like you have a lot of really valuable tools to help people adjust with challenging, challenging situations. So well, thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much to you and your team, and thank you for your time. And I hope we get to hang out when you're next in LA. I hope so too. And
thank you for being on YouTube. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks Susan,