Payal Kadakia ON: Imposter Syndrome, Ambition, & How to Succeed While Staying True to Your Passion

you who come here every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, today's guest has been a guest on the podcast before. There's very few people who've been on the podcast twice. She is going to be one of them. She is one of my dearest friends. Me and Raley consider her our family here in La She's the one who's made us feel so at home and made this place feel

like home. But beyond all of that, she is the founder of class Us and the author of this incredible new book called Life Pass, Drop your Limits, Rise to Your Potential. Her name is pile Kadakia, and you need to go and grab this book. We're going to put the link at the top of the comments, So while you're listening to this interview, makes sure you go and grab a copy. This is launch day by or welcome.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here, because I remember when I sat down with you. Can you believe it's been three years since our first interview. Three years twenty nineteen was when we launched the podcast. You were one of the first guests in the first six months. Yeah, it's been three years now. You've got your amazing new book out, which I was fortunate enough to read before. Yes, I want to start off and I said this yesterday when we were doing our summit conversation.

But you know what I love about you is that no one would know how mighty you are because you never try and make people in your personal life feel that way or understand that. Like, what I value about you the most is your humility, your groundedness, your sincerity, because it's so endearing. Yeah, then when you realize that you're a powerhouse, it's like, wow, that combination is so beautiful. So I feel like you represent the modern entrepreneur in

the most amazing way. And I want everyone who's listening today to connected that yes, pilots built incredible business and like all of this amazing life, but it's like the heart with which you've done it and how you've protected

that heart is what I value in you. So I wanted to start with that because I tell you and I have to say, I give that credit to my parents, because I think when you've seen people struggle and go through something, and then when you then have the gift to be able to give to others because of the hard work of other people, I think you just are so grateful for the journey. And I never ever would take any of this for granted. I'm thinking about it.

It's beautiful your thinking of your parents. Your parents are amazing and you know, I've had the fortune of spending time with them and it's it's so beautiful to see a love for them in connection. You know, they're so proud of course, But let's dive in. Last time we were here, we actually talked about the journey of like building class bus. We talked about SSA, which I want to talk about today as well. Pile founded her own dance companies Saw Dance Company. I've seen them perform at

least three times now, and it was absolutely incredible. Yeah, both coasts. But let's start with the discovery of purpose. Yes, because you were on a certain path and then at one point you veered away. I want you to help us understand when did you first understand, even internally, even if it wasn't in these words, what purpose was and that you wanted to live for something deeper. So I really believe for me it started when I was close

to four or five years old. And I know most people do not discover purpose and passion at that age, but for me, and this is a very very interesting dynamic because most people would never think a moment like this was how you found it. But I went to a party, like a family friends party with my parents and they asked me to dance, and I got onto the dance floor and started performing. And of course it's nice to have everyone looking at you and all of that,

but it wasn't about that. For me. It was this feeling that there was something inside of me that I gave to others. Right. There was magic created between the audience and me in that moment, and I didn't obviously know it at the time. So I talk about this and obviously in a hindsight way, because when you're five years old, you're not thinking about this stuff. But in that moment, I felt something sort of come out of

me that honestly, nothing else could compare to. And I think when you have something in your life that brings you so much joy, brings you so much happiness, it's really hard to find anything else that's going to compare to it. And I know we'll get into it, whether that's things like money and all of that. And I try to hang on to that feeling, right, And I really believe my life has been a fight to hang

on to that feeling. And then with class Pass, it was to share that feeling with others so they could have it in their life as well. Yeah, that's so beautiful. There's an amazing ancient text in India, and the verse reads, when you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you. And I love it because you often think of your purpose as something you have to find or create. Yeah, And actually the wisdom reminds us it's something you have to protect.

You already have it? Yes, Can you tell us? Because last time we talked about the whole journey. What I'm more fascinated in is having taken this journey to build a business, to grow, to take your passion into this bigger industry. How did you have to protect your purpose? Because I think that's something that people don't think about a lot. I mean, the whole time of my life, I truly believe I fought to dance. I believe that my life even now, it's not easy. And why do

I say that. It's because society has its own expectations of me. I you have identity issues where you're like, wait, can I be doing that? I'm this person, I'm that person. But I have learned to take away a lot of those things and say, but no, my heart isn't this And this is what I love. And I love what

you just said about It's already inside of you. Because when I think about the journey of me being corporate America right, and I think a lot of people you're in your job, you're kind of going through the motions of it. You don't necessarily I don't know, you don't love what you do, but you're in it right because you have to pay the bills, etc. For me, you know, I had this thing that I was doing on the side, right, but it was fulfilling me. And the more I started

doing it, the more it gave back to me. Right, So that whole protection side that you were just talking about, I truly believe, and I talk about this in the book, and the synchronicity of the world helping me through when

I was questioning it. As long as I found the time to dance, I felt like the universe was giving me signs, whether it was you know, I talked about the story where it saw ended up on the cover of the art section of the New York Times, and it was a moment when everyone was telling me to go to business school, right, and that seemed like the right path in everyone else's sense of the world. And here I was getting the sign from the world telling me I was on the right path by following what

I loved. And all those moments helped me to just continue to hang on. And I do believe those things happen because it was like a sign from the universe saying, keep going in this direction because the world wants you to do this, And to me, that is protection. Yeah, that's such a wonderful way of looking at it. And you know, the times I've seen you dance, it truly is the most magical experience like seeing someone in their element and you're just fully immersed. You're fully absorbed. I

love that you just said you had to fight to dance. Yeah, because I think we think that purpose should just flow, and we think sometimes that the word synchronicity, as you used, means it just kind of happens. But you said you had to fight. Tell us about how we learn to fight for what we care about, because I think that's not often spoken about. We think that if you care about something, it should just magically manifest. But you're fighting, like you love that. I mean, in anything in your life,

you need to know what your priorities are. They cannot be set by other people, right, And that comes down to everything with your professional career, your personal life, your family. Right. People are always asking, oh, how do you juggle this? And that it's because I know what is important to me and that doesn't come from anyone else. And once I know it's important, those are the things going in my schedule and I don't feel guilty about it. It's

usually the guilt. Right. Why when I even say I fought to dance, it was because once again it was everyone wanted me to do other things. But the more I thrived in doing it, and obviously the more I built a system to really say, it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. What matters is what I do and what I want to give to the world. I learned to prioritize and make sure that I to plan against doing the things I loved, and I think we forget that, we forget that it's supposed to be our

priorities that come first. Right, we put everyone else's priorities first. And it's not selfish to do that all by any means. Our true purpose in the world is to do that thing that we were put on earth to do. That's actually the best thing you could do right in the world, to be selfless. And that's what I really want people to understand. And you know, I always felt through my journey.

I know there were moments when I was working so hard and people may have been like, hey, Pyle, like you know you've been ma for so long, like you missed this and you missed that. But I woke up every day and I knew even though I had maybe no customers at the time, I knew that I was trying to solve a problem. And obviously, once I did it all made sense? But in my heart I knew

I was on a mission. Right. We forget what that feels like to be on a mission, but there is nothing that feels comparable when you're on that mission to make an impact in the world. And I think that's truly like the heart of all this for me. I love that you use that phrase there, because I think when you talk to any real successful entrepreneurs, they all were trying to solve a problem. Yeah, they weren't trying to build a billion dollar company. They weren't trying to

build a company on the front of Forbes. They weren't trying to build a company that gets acquired, like I think we hear those terms so much now, and it's like almost like people set themselves up for failure because they start a company to exit or they start a company to sell it. Whereas whenever I've talked to you for years, you've always talked about this idea of solving a problem. Can you walk us through how that is an amazing way to unlock your potential, because I think

it's something we don't consider. I actually had a conversation just like this. I was back in London during Christmas and I was driving to an event and I met someone and he was saying to me that I think, you know, I just need to make more money, like how do I make more money? And I appreciate that a lot of us need to make more money and find new ways to responsibilities. And I said to him,

I said, well, let's ask this question differently. I said, what if you ask the question what problem can I solve? And I said, I'm sure you're going to come up with way more ways to make money than if you think how can I make money? Because when you ask the question how can I make money, then you only think of that. Those things walk us through how you really focus on a problem and how to problem solve as an MT dancing CEO, there's so many parts of that.

Let me I'll start a little bit with the beginning of how my idea of what problem came to me? Right? And I think what's really interesting is through my life I was living many identities. So I was Indian, I was American, I was this dancer girl in the middle of a business world. I never felt like I could fit in. And when I met the career field of entrepreneurship, which was ten years ago. This was not something that most people were doing at the time. I actually saw

it as just a way to be free, right. I thought, as a way to impact the world and solve a problem. I didn't see it as, you know, the fame or having this money people on my team or any of that. And I actually think, to be honest, and I spent a little bit of time my first few years because you kind of get thrown into this incubator world of tech startup momentum, and you start doing things for brand, and you start doing things to raise money and to

get pressed, and you forget about that main point. And I had to go back to that. And so the reason I found my problem was because I faced it right. And I think that is such a great way to find a problem to solve in the world. It's what are you struggling with? And most of the times, I think the best idea has come out of your own struggles. I mean, Uber did that, Airbnb did that, and it really did. I went to go find a ballet class, and it sounds so simple, I couldn't find it. So

I decided to solve that problem right. And there was obviously more to that, right, This wasn't ja Okay, let's solve it with tech. This was really for me. I had been fighting to dance my whole life. I wanted to take this fight to other people, right, So that kind of in a way goes a deeper level than the what the what is? It goes down to the why. You know that we always talk about it, there's one

layer deeper to that why. But I think when you have a problem to solve in the world, the reason it's so important is because how do you know when you've solved it? And if you are just going out there to build a company, how do you measure your impact? Right? When you talk about purpose and all of that. And it's not that you need to be able to measure it, Like doing good is doing good right if it's two people, one person, it doesn't matter if it's one hundred, it's

great that you're giving. But I think for me, when I realized people were going to class because of our product, and you know, even yesterday I was talking to someone and they were like, oh my god, I just want to tell you, like I found all these new studios

in Los Angeles because of class fasts. I'm like, this story never gets old to me because I know how impactful going to one classes for one person, you know, And I think you have to really be bought in to the solution that you're solving for, because it can't feel like, Okay, I checked it off and I'm done. And I think that's where some people get stuck too. It's not a one and done. It's a journey, and

it's a constant journey that keeps going forward. But the other side of this a little bit in the foundational thing. So yeah, I had a great education that helped me, you know, learned problem solved from MT and I worked at a consulting firm, so I did have the mindset. But you know what I think of the success behind my company truly comes from my creativity. It does not come from the fact that I had all these skills

in this experience. Obviously, that set me up very well and it gave me a great network, But the true magic came from my hustle, came from my discipline, It came from everything else that I cared about and I felt made me see this problem in a different way, in a unique way than anyone else was looking at it. And that's really I think what people have to think about when they're going out to solve a problem is what's that unique problem only you can solve, right? And

we were talking about this, I think yesterday. But it's also then, what do you have the expertise to do? Right? Like I knew what classes felt like, what tech person in the world combined with someone who loved class was ever going to come together to be able to solve this problem? And I say this now obviously with a lot of confidence, but obviously when I was going through it, I felt embarrassed for parts of me, right, like, oh do I not know tech enough? Okay, wait, do you

know how am I going to do that? Oh? No? Like should I hide my dance side? All of that? You know, but you learn that the more you do something that is so in line with what your purposes,

all that stuff goes away. Yeah. I really appreciate what you said, because when you're building something truly focusing on how this helps one person, yes, one case study, one user, and when you can take one person on a journey from A to Z, that journey helps you help a hundred people, a thousand people, a million people, a billion people. If you can't get that to work for one person,

you're not going to be able to scale it. And I think often we think no, but I want to help a million people and I want my company to one hundred thousand customers. And it doesn't stop there. It

starts with that one use case, that one person. This is I actually think the biggest mistake that entrepreneurs make today is they go in trying to solve for these big data numbers and they forget that data doesn't do your thinking for you, right, And the magic of especially lifestyle brands and companies, the magic happens in the customer to customer interaction and how someone feels from your product and how they like it and enjoy and like you said,

it's it's everything from coming to the website to purchasing it, you know, And everyone gets kind of caught up on like launch day. Yeah, but you know what, you launch every days as a founder of especially of a consumer company, you launch every single day because someone new is finding you. And I think that's a shift in the mindset that a lot of people need to have. And I love that.

I mean, it's it's so true. I think some people they forget that it's not even doing it for one They raise all this money and they build all this momentum, but they haven't proven the fact that it works for one person. Yeah, well, said tell us about what you just brought up there, because we've talked about this as well.

And it's interesting for me asking you this because now when I talk about having lived as a monk people, I was like, oh, yeah, J Jay talks about that, and there will be some people will be like, oh, well, he's talking about it because it sounds cool, and I'm like, I actually was embarrassed when I went back into the workplace to tell people I'd lived as a monk, interesting

because they didn't have. So it wasn't that it was some people will say, and I know no one who listens to the podcast, but some people say, well, oh Jay does that because it makes him sound like he's done something amazing in this life. And I'm like, no, no, no, Actually, when I first came back into the workplace, I was insecure about it, right because it was like your three years behind, like I'm twenty six years old in a twenty one year old graduate position because you didn't do

the path. Everyone else didn't do the path, and so Actually I was scared of sharing my experience because I saw it as a weakness. I thought if people now have been a monk, that they're gonna be able to use that against me, because then I haven't had the experience they've had. And so I've experienced that impost syndrome too, And even now when I'm in media, sometimes it's the other way around, where I'm sitting at a table and I'm like, why am I at this table? You know?

So imposter syndrome is always there, absolutely, and you're saying that you had it. Of course there is confidence now, but there's also that insecurity still today and it was there then. Walk us through how you dealt with it then, like when you were like, I'm a dancer, but here I have to be a CEO. And of course, you know women entrepreneurs and female entrepreneurs like that whole journey is added to this whole journey of you as an individual. How did you handle it then? Of what were the

mistakes you made? Let me tell you all the ways I did it wrong, because to be honest, I think for the first half of my life, most of what I did with a lot of these identity issues that I think we all face is I just separated them. Put like Indian pile in one place, put American pile here, put dancer pile here, business pile here, and I built my own worlds right, So like they were all just very separate. And you know, because I was type, I was like, let me succeed at being all of them, right.

That was sort of my way of learning how to do well and build skill great. So that was what I originally did. I think for me, a few threads started happening. The Indian American one sort of came together with dance right, and as I started feeling like I had an environment to succeed in and that was thriving, it helped me be both sides of who I was, right.

And I think people underestimate their environments that they're in, and they are sometimes put in environments that do not serve them and their authenticity, and you really need to question it. You do not need to stay in place that is trying to suppress you. And I mean I always think about this. I'm sure there are people who I worked with in corporate America when I literally was

probably quiet. I was like I tried to like disappear in the room who were probably like that girl but built that company, you know, because I wasn't in the right environment, you know. And it really depends on where you are, I think for business and sort of creative dance or byle what happened originally, Like I remember when I went to go to fundraise, I would like show up in these business suits, and I'm a petite human being,

so I always felt uncomfortable. I always felt like I was like drowning in the clothes and didn't feel like, you know, I could be you know, the tiny up mighty verses, and I feel like I can be sometimes. And I remember never feeling great in those meetings because I almost like overrehearsed, like data. I overrehearsed, like all the finance numbers and all the things that actually didn't matter at all. And I started to realize and this took me a minute. And I remember actually this conversation.

I was sitting with someone in my tech Stars company group. He was another CEO, and he's like, Pyle, You've clearly like succeeded in your life. You have a formula, a pattern of success in your life. What is yours like? Follow that if this is not working, and as he asked me that, I broke it down to wait. And so I know how to like succeed in dance, right, I've been able to like get the right job. And what do I do. It's like I go and study, I rehearse, I try and find a way for it

to connect to me and authenticity with storytelling. And I realized I was missing that whole side of it pitching my company because I was walking in like a robot, like, how is anyone going to like me? I didn't like me? And I think that's really when I realized I needed to be the full version of who I was. And so I started walking into those rooms and I would be wearing my leggings instead of wearing a business suit. And I think people were like, you are the right person.

And by the way, M two was never gonna leave me, right like Bain was never going to leave me. I still had that credibility. I needed to wear that in a way that made me feel confident. And over time,

I just stopped seeing any of the differences. And I think that's really the most important thing I would tell people is at some point you just have to actually embrace all those things that make you different and know that your journeys set you up to be that successful in that moment to do whatever you were going to do going forward. Yeah, that's so powerful, like what you've just said, because the challenge is that we only attract the right people into our lives when we don't hide

part of ourselves. Because if you hide parts of yourselves, you're only attracting What they find attractive is parts that you haven't hidden. And it can be really uncomfortable to not hide parts of yourself because chances are most people aren't going to vibe with you, but the right people are. Yeah,

and I think that's what you're waiting for. And I think it's really scary to go into a room and have the There's a brilliant book I read recently called The Courage to Be Disliked, and I was like, that's really what you need, is that we all need the courage to be able to walk into a room and be okay with that this person may not vibe with me, but there will be someone who will and walk us through.

What do you think I want to hear this because I think your dance experience is just it's what gravitated me towards you. So that's another perfect example of what we're just saying. When I first discovered you on Instagram, it was like I just saw you posting and I was like, Wow, this is amazing, Like, who's this American Indian girl or Indian American girl who's posting the girl

woman who's posting these? Who's posting these incredible like very classical, timeless work of art pictures of dance with Saar Dance Company. And I was just like, this is just I've never seen something like this before. Tell me about what you think dance taught you about life? Oh yeah, because I think you lived the way you dance. Yeah, And I hope too. I mean I always say like, I hope

I'm choreographing through life, you know. And I used to always feel when I was walking through like the streets of New York, I just felt like I was dancing. And you know, when you meet like the birst at Starbucks, like I feel like you give that energy if you feel like that, and I do feel it's like it's an enlightenment. And this is why you need a musical.

This is why, this is why Pyle if you direct musicals or theater productions, please reach out, because yeah, when you said that, all I visualized you was like doing a musical or you're like singing and dancings will get the bruces. An aside, and this is actually a really funny, funny story is when I was younger, like literally like

five years old, my parents would take long drives. Right my sister would be like looking out the window, and I would put a headphones on and listen to Bollywood tracks and literally see people dancing in the mountains in my head. I have been choreographing since I was so young in my head, like I don't know why, but probably watching too many Bollywood films when I was younger. But I just I don't know, I just saw the world that way. I just saw that's how people work together.

So as an aside, but going back to what dances taught me, I think to start with that, I have to go back to Ushanti, who is my dance teacher, who literally taught me obviously not just how to dance, but she taught me how to show up to life. Right. In India, we talk about Guruji's right a lot, and it's someone who bestows knowledge upon you, you respect them because the one thing that's indestructible is knowledge. Right. She of course was teaching me steps, you know, and at

the time I didn't necessarily appreciate everything. I was like, oh, hey, I want to go and have with my friends. But she was teaching me about where I had come from, right, the women of India, my ancestors, which made me feel much more stronger in who I was, even though once again I didn't know it at the time. But she also, you know, she expected us to be on time, right, She expected us to practice, she expected us to have

our hair up. And I know it sounds a little forced, and it can, you know, to some people who are like, oh wow, like that she's so strict, But I am so glad I had her in my life. And even today, she's one of the first people I call to be like, hey, I'm dealing with this, what should I do? Because she will give me the toughest but the best advice, right she and she even the other day, I think I sent her a dance video and she's like, you know, I'm not going to praise you, so if you're sending

it's something to me. I'm going to give you real feedback. And I love that, you know, because it keeps me growing and everything that I do. And I think as I grew up and started dancing more so, college is sort of this other time that happened in my life when once again, like I'm a tiny person, I'm the baby of my family. I didn't know what it meant to be a leader, right. I had never taken on

that role. And I think in anything in our lives, right, people don't realize you can take a leadership role in the smallest thing. It could be literally planning a family vacation. Right. It's really just about learning how you work and how you lead with like a vision. Right. And so for me, even at college, it probably started with choreographing forty person dam shows. Right, When how do you organize people like that and think about communicating right and getting everyone to

move in the same way. There is no difference between that and running a team. And then by the time I started SAW and I was building confidence because I was good at executing these shows and these performances, and people were gravitating towards it because they were like, Wow, you're really good at what you do. And which helped me build confidence, even though once again this was a

side thing I did my whole life. And so by the time I was building saw and started, you know, putting down money towards like doing big shows in New York City and seeing like Indian celebrities want to come to it, seeing us sellout shows, you know the week before, seeing my ability to never you know, find a stage manager and a lighting designer when I didn't know that world at all, like I was in the business world. I didn't have any idea and I was in the

middle of New York City. To see a lot of that just made me believe in my ability to execute. And I think we forget how important execution is and

the confidence it gives you. Right, So you can have an idea, but if you've never really completed something in your life, you don't know right And you know, in the smallest form like class Pass to me literally started with one hundred person dance show because that was the first thing I ever did that was sort of my own with a vision, and I got people to come and banned against and you know what, some of those people who came to that first show of mine became

my investors and class pass and I think everything is connected because my other point on this is I always did good work right because I was always doing what I loved. Right. It wasn't do good work because the world is telling me to do good work. It was I liked to put my heart into things. It was the only way I knew how to operate. And I think that came from the basis of dance. It was how do I do everything with that love? How do I choreograph my life and give danced into everything I'm

doing because it adds joy to it to everyone around. Yeah, I think that point that you made is so important because you were doing everything you did with love, care and attention. So people when they saw you, whether you were dancing or whether you're in a meeting, they could trust Pile does things with love, care and attention. And that's why the people who came to your dance show became your investors. The problem is we see everything is disconnected.

We think, well, that's what I love and that's what I hate, or that's what I really want to do and that's not what I want to do. But actually, when you approach even things you don't want to do, with love, care, and attention. People take note, and then that starts to be called a connection, like the fact that you used what you learned in dance to choreograph teams. Just that idea, if anyone's listening to that right now.

You may be going to a job every day that you don't like, but I promise you there's a skill in your personal life that you love that you can apply there, or there's a skill in that workplace that you can apply to your personal life, and all of a sudden it becomes meaningful. Yeah. I spent years working

at Accenture, which was not my purpose or not my passion. However, when I look back on it, I see it as some of the best training I ever received because I learned so many invaluable skills that I would never have learned anywhere else. You can either look at that experience and negate it and think, oh, well, that was a waste of time. We can go, well, what's the one thing I got there that actually helps me build what

I'm building, which is your journey. I mean, let's dive into when you're choreographing life, which I just love that even just that is just such a beautiful thought mentors is not something that you left just for dance as well. Mentorship is something what I saw in you. You've constantly chosen to be humble and want to learn from everyone around you. How did you, as you became more successful,

remain grounded to one advice? When I think so many people when as their career grows, they almost think, well, now people should come to me for advice. How did you keep that balance? Because I've seen you do it? Yeah, but I don't. I think it's quite surprising to a lot of people in general, not about you, but in general.

I think as human beings we can constantly grow. And maybe this is you know, deep root for me in the way I was taught with Ushanti with I will never be and be able to know all the knowledge of even dance in my life. Right. And I think when you think about that and learning a skill that could literally be a lifelong learning journey, all of this can be even entrepreneurship, like class pass was a journey

my business journey. Everything gets me one step further, and I think the power of it is keeping myself growing with teachers, right, I mean, that's the basis of class passes. We should never in our lives ever be at a place where we want to stop growing and learning. I think the second we do, we get bored and we get sad. And what's the journey, right, It's it becomes meaningless And what are you going to do sitting there at the top by yourself anyway? What is that? You know?

There's always more to do and really there's always more to give, right, I think that's really where it comes from. But you know, I think obviously like there are times in my life and I actually have to balance it right now because a lot of people do want my advice, which is why I wrote my book because I felt like that was a responsible way for me to do it. But at the same time, like I have to also limit that to be able to say we I want

to grow too. And I think that's a really interesting thing to even think about at this point in my life, is you know, what's going to inspire me, what's going to help me grow? And I'm constantly thinking about that. What friends do I want to spend time with, right what mentors do I need? Because I'm going through like a shift right now. You know, I'm very very conscious and self aware of where I am, and I think

that really adds to it. But at the end of the day, like I would never want someone to ever feel like they are the smartest person in the world. I mean, I don't like working with people like that, to be honest. It's like not my way of working. But there are people and I think a lot of times sadly that actually comes from insecurity. Right. It's a defense mechanism. It's a defense mechanism. And so I think when you truly are confident in a way, you don't

have to prove anything. Yeah, And I think that's what people have to remember. It's it's not about acting like you're smart. Yeah, it's truly about just being able to live and be without society making you feel like you're insecure. So let me act a certain way because it comes across unnatural. I think you've just hit on a really important point. Part of our imposter syndrome comes from us thinking we have to say something or we have to be at this table because we have something to offer.

The smartest people in the world ask more questions than they talk. Yeah, Like they're actually thinking about like, oh, well, what can I learn from this person or how can I learn from this person. And so when you go into somewhere, we think confidence means talking the most, and confidence actually means being confident to say I don't know

and let me ask the most. And so if you're sitting here listening to this going well, Jay, if I was in an environment with mentors and people, I wouldn't know what to say, ask questions, right Like, asking questions

is the safest way to learn. One of the things I learn about this book Pile is not only is it your story, but it's so practical and I just want to hold up some things to some people so you can see that, you know, there's there's these beautiful moments in this book that you take this opportunity to make things really practical and asking people to reflect. And I love that because often these books, when they're written by entrepreneurs, it's like, here's my story and here's how

I great. And yours doesn't do that. Yours continues to give people systems and framework, a lot of checkpoints and advice on top of you know, the stories and especially the constraints I've been through. But at the end of the day, we all face roadblocks in our lives. And I really believe and you know this about me, like you can take any of them away if you just try, and if you put a plan together, right. My horses has been really about thinking about what the plan is. Right.

So if I don't have enough money, okay, what is my plan to have enough money? Right? It's not about giving up on the dream, it's about planning for it. Yeah, and let's let's dive into that. When when when you were writing this book, I remember we talked about the word constraints Salon, Yeah, and limits is the word? Are constraints real? No? I mean that's really what I want people to see is that you can find a way through across any tree that's fallen in the forest, right,

especially if you know your true north. It's really about finding your way through it. It is not about stopping at the tree and then stopping going to where you want to go. And I think that's really what people need to see, is how do I maneuver my way to not lose track of where I want to go? And they don't, they don't exist, they really don't. And you can really find a way to work through it. You need to do a lot of self reflection, understand how you work and then go and do it. Action, right,

is really the best way to move forward. Yeah. And what are the biggest mistakes you think when we make plans? Because I love this topic. Yeah, because I was sharing with everyone recently when I was on the Today Show for at the beginning of the year, I was saying to everyone that we need to shift from goal setting to growth setting. Yeah. So we keep setting these big goals. I want to do this, I want to be this, but it's like the growth like what skills do I need?

What's my plan? What's my approach? Like that's what you should be focused on. It's like saying I want to do a podcast with Pile and you can have that as a goal, but it's like, whoa have we thought about what we need to build a podcast? We need to start? Yeah, so walk us through what are the mistakes we make when we create plans? Or do we even create plans, because I'm not sure we do. I think we just set these plans. The whole well, the whole last third of this book is the Life Past Method,

which is my I call goal setting method. But really what it comes down to is these itty bitty goals which are so minute that they do not feel big at all. But like you said, it's about getting started and the way I've thought about it and it helps to solve a lot of the problems. Is I first start with you reflecting, because you need to know where you are today before you start setting goals. And a lot of times we start setting goals without really taking

stock of where we are today. So that's sort of mistake one, right. Then the second one is I go into a dream mode, right, which is what do I want to do and do be in a year? But that is not about check marks like I'm going to run a marathon and buy a house and all these big things like you just said, I like to anchor them in words, in feelings. How do I want to feel in a year that, because that's something I can you know, can really put intention behind right and put

into my body. I can go back to and feel like am I going towards that or not? Where you know, like I said, running a marathon is just a check mark in our live Then the next part of it to me, and this is because I'm super analytical and like love time, I think people really need to think about where they spend their time. So this whole next part about focusing. You can set goals in every aspect of your life all the time, it's never going to work right. You're never going to be able to make

an impact on every aspect of your life. You're probably going to end up failing and then being able to feel like you can't do anything. So my structure in the third step is really all about focusing in on three to five areas of your life that you can

focus on right. And so that might be like, Okay, my family, some friends and work right, and you get to the point once you're there, and then like the last part of this and this is I think what I feel like I've done really well throughout my life is I know how to set the goal right, because it's all it's not even a goal, like you said, it's really about the action you need to take to

get to where you want to go. And you know, pretend you want to go and learn tennis, right, a lot of people would be like, yeah, okay, I'm going to play tennis, and the whole year will go by and they'll never sign up. It literally comes down to maybe it's take one hour to get on to the internet and search for three instructors near you, find reviews

on them, sign up for one class. Even if you don't go to the class in that three month area that you're doing this exercise, you're still making progress because you at least are getting closer to doing that first class, right because until you actually go and show up to that first lesson, you haven't gotten anywhere in that goal. And I think that's what people forget. And there's a lot of mistakes. You you know, people don't share their goals. I think you should always be so proud of what

you want to do. You'd be so surprised how much your friends and family will support you if they know what you really want to accomplish in your life. So it's I mean, I have a lot of that. I know. That's yeah, Yeah, it was a loaded question because it is. But I, like you said, I do think people make a lot of mistakes here. And it's really like I said, and this is, you know, one way of thinking about it.

It really comes down to having a practice for yourself of how do I look inward, focus myself and then set goals and feel the confidence of I said these goals, I did it. Okay, great, let's set bigger goals next time. Right. You can only get to the bigger goal if you start with a smaller step and fulfill that. When you have a dream and it feels really big, the question is what's the smallest thing I can do right now? Right? Like what's the what's the first thing? And that's what

you just broke down. It was like I want to blay tennis every day or every this year, but it's like, let me just find an instructive and that's very achievable, right right. And I think that's the point that I remember sitting down with a friend once and he really wanted to direct theater shows and I was like, that's a big goal, and we literally just broke it down to the tiniest thing he could do today, Like that's and it's literally like with something like that, I think

I have it in my book. It's like even watch three three plays? Yes, yeah, right, Like I know it's weird, but it's like watching three plays and actually it's funny, right. I think you you've talked about this a lot. Sometimes people think like watching stuff that we enjoy, it's part of your goals too, right, So a lot of times when would be like, oh, that's like leisure or time, I don't have time to watch the plays. But no, you just put it as a partner of your plan

towards your goals. So in a way, sometimes doing these processes of setting goals, it makes you also realize, like the reason you're inclined to watch that movie, it's because you need a inspiration right now in your life. And that is still like fulfilling. It is not about you being like lazy, right, And I think that's that I

never feel lazy, even when I'm like chilling. I think we talk about this a lot, is like sometimes we need that time, right, and that's like a part of scheduled time in a way that I know I need to replenish. I never think of it as I'm being lazy. I mean, our times are so busy, but I think we have to think about what we need, not just professionally and not just to like an obligation of other people. It's also what we need to keep moving forward. Yes, definitely, definitely.

And that's what what I find so fascinating about what you just said, is that we get lost in just how big it is and it feels so heavy. Yeah, and it feels so far and it feels so out of reach that we just give up, right and I'll give an example of something right now. So I'm at a stage where we're growing and I really want to be a good leader and that's something that's new to me in this world of work. If I was a leader in the monastery, it was different to being a

leader here. And so my goal is to read a chapter a day of this book that I've been reading called The Culture Code, which is just a phenomenal book about that, and I've been doing that. When I was reading your book, I was feeling like I was growing in so many entrepreneurial ways. I was sitting here reading Life Pass when you send it to me in advance, and I was like, oh wow, like this is what I need to do with people, and this is what

I need to do with time. And so your goal right now, if you have a passion, just read Life Pass like literally, like though genuinely that can be as simple as it is. Like you may say I've got a passion, I have a goal. I want to build it into something real. And when we say something real, it could be it doesn't have to be a billion

Dollar company. It could mean something that takes care of me and my family, right, Like, it can be that, but then apply what you're learning here, and your goal right now could just be I'm going to read a chapter of this book a day, I'm going to read a chapter a week, I'm going to read a chapter a month. And you break that down like that, you're going to start seeing these mindsets get into your psychology. And that's really what we're talking about, is that it's

psychological change exactly. It's about creating a habit of doing this right. It's not about doing this once. Nothing's going to happen. If you know, we all always talk about that you can't do something once. It's about building a practice about how you also can trust yourself. Right, how do you get into a place where this becomes about you being excited about it? No? You know, goal setting lists should be a to do list, right, Nothing in your life should feel like a to do list. It

should feel exciting, like it's moving you forward. But you're the only person who can tell yourself that. Yeah, let's talk a bit about Zane. It was his it was his second birthday, Yeah, last weekend, I know, and he's so grown up. I mean, he is so grown up watching him grow over the last two years. Yeah, you've you've had you know, because of the pandemic. It's great

that he's happening. Yeah, And I felt like the last three months he grew even more because I didn't see it because I was just like, what does that he's so tall? That let's talk about what you're learning through motherhood, because I think that that's a new chapter in your life. It's a new new chapter, a new space, a new move for you. And it's like that requires different growth. I mean, what are you learning personally from motherhood that

you think you didn't learn from other things. I mean, nothing prepares you for motherhood until you become a mother. And obviously there's a lot of changes that happened because COVID happened right when he was born. But I think outside of that, what I've had to really just be conscious of once again my time, which I always was, but even more so, I think it was easier when you know, I would feel guilty or not feel guilty

about like going to an event or something. It's really hard when you're like, oh, I don't want to spend time with my baby. You know, so there's there's hard times, but I love what I do. I think it's made it more important for me to love the work I do, right because I will always be an ambitious woman and I want to you know, I really think it's so important for women to know they can always be ambitious at any point in their life. You have to build

a support structure around That is another thing I've learned. Right, Like this is you know, me and Nick talking. Nick is my husband, you know, is me and him talking about like what support structure do I need? Right? Like we have this book coming out. It was that's why, like my family is here everyone because I'm like, what, you need support in order to do these things in our lives. And I think a lot of time, especially as women, we don't always know how to ask for help.

And you know, a baby is a twenty four seven job and they're great, you know, but you need to be able to also know how to take care of yourself, do the things that you still love, or you will be you know completely, you know, just doing one thing the whole time. And I think that's it's obviously you have to figure out your choice on that and then the last thing is like I think a lot of it comes down to also figuring out with expectations of society.

I do think like there's a lot of things that still happen to mothers, you know, feeling like you should be doing this and that, and maybe that's a blessing of COVID is. I just like wasn't around society that much. So I think I just got to develop my own bond with my son in my way, you know, I wasn't around anyone else to be like is this the right way or wrong way? And I think, you know,

I get I feel like a kid with him. I think that's like my favorite favorite thing is you just play with him, you know, and it's just it's just really beautiful to experience the world through his eyes. You know. It's beautiful to watch you guys together, Like I love seeing Zane, Like I want to run away to you all the time. But it's like what I think is

really healthy is you know. I was on I was on Chelsea Handler's podcast last week and she does this segment where she invites people on from an audience to talk through their challenges. And someone came on and they were just being an honest, mum, Like they're just being honest and saying, look, I love my kid, but I'm really struggling to find time for myself. I feel like

I'm losing myself, like I'm losing my identity. And I was just like I was so happy to hear that honesty and that vulnerability and even what you're saying today, it's like I still have to have my like I still have to find a way because I love my child,

but I still have me. Yeah, And you know, when I see Zane and it's like he loves music and he loves dancing, and it's like he obviously when he watches you is in the other day, I think I was I had saw rehearsal and he came into my studio and then my mom was like, what was mama doing in the in you know? And he calls in

my office and he starts dancing. You know, he's like you know because and I'm like, I'm really happy because I didn't grow up with that, right, I didn't grow up with someone being creative always around me and thinking like that's a way to live. And I was thinking about that, like I want him to feel like he could be anything in his life right and not force him to sort of live by a certain standard or

a certain path. And I think that's really beautiful, and you know, I think in general for women, and you know, and I obviously I think these last two years were personally actually harder for me because I had to work through these things and I haven't had to work work myself out of expectations and out of sort of structures

the world and so long. Like I started Class West ten years ago, I was in it, and I remember going back to an actually in a weird way, like as I was writing this book, it all was coming back to me too where I was ten years ago, to be like, wow, I need to break these boundaries again on expectations and I hadn't gone through that in a while, So just kind of going back to that, going back to a sense of the center right because I was on such a strong momentum my whole life,

and then I had a kid and I just realized I had to like rethink so much and recenter right. And so in a weird way, my own book even helped me. You know. I think that's like the beauty of these books is when you're writing them, they give back to you. And I remember moments, especially in the past, you know, a few years where I was like, wow, I remember the feeling of where I was ten years ago, and sometimes I feel like I'm right back there and I have to I'm going through all of this again.

And I think that's why it's so important to realize this is a muscle to work through constraints. It is not and it's a mindset, right. It is not about Okay, I'm gonna do it once and it's gone. You have to constantly work through it. And if you really care enough, which is what we started with, then you will find

a way. I love it and and that's why I think there's a book that people can read again and again and again, because, like you said, as soon as you finish something or complete something, it's incredible how the constraints just come rushing back heast phase of life and we keep putting new limits wherever we get to. And that's why when you're saying to us to drop your limits and rise to your particular like, that's something that

we're going to do again and again and again. And so whether you're someone at the start of your journey or whether you're someone who's had some success and achievement and then you're trying to find your way. You know this book Life Past will actually help you in all areas of that because it's the same thing we keep going through again and again and again. Pile you are amazing. I'm so grateful. I am hoping that each and every single person goes and grabs a copy of Life Pasts.

It's available right now. We will put the link in the comments. Go and order your copy, order one for a friend. I also think it's just so One of the things that I loved when I moved here is that we've built such a beautiful community of South Asians in LA who've connected with each other just through genuine

friendship and family. And I feel so you know, grateful to have that have that feeling, because it's always nice being around people who shared that culture and share that heritage with you, even though we grew up in different countries, and you know, to see you doing so well and to see you sharing your story, and I know that

it just comes from a place of wanting to help people. Yeah, And that's and that's why I'm recommending this book so much, is because I know that in your heart, it's like you only wrote it to help people, Like that's the only reason I know that this journey of writing this book is hard. Yeah, writing your book is not easy. And you had a baby at the same time, and it's you and you're doing so many other things, and so I know that you broughte this book only to

help people to go. Yeah. I just want people the same way with class Pass, It's it's an extension of that, right, it is an extension of the vision of class Pass, with helping people fight through anything in their life to live their dream. And I feel like I have done that, and I feel like I'm still doing that and I never want any anything to stand in anyone's way. I love that. Pile. These are your final fi which are

our rapid fire around. So you have to answer in one word or one sentence, max Ka, all right, Pile Lizzie. A final five question Naber One, what is the best advice you ever received? Best advice to bet on myself? What is the worst advice you ever received? To stop dancing? I can't believe anyone ever said that. That's amazing, all right. Third question, how would you define your current purpose to create timeless things. Oh, I love that. That's beautiful, all right.

Question number four, what is something you used to value that you no longer value. I used. I know this sounds funny because it's a sense of home. Like I think I've learned to not value. I don't know. I don't value things like I just value. I value like dance so much, especially in COVID. And I know now I'm not doing one sentence, but I think COVID just made me realize how much it's not necessarily about you know, the environment. It's about having like the space to do

what you love. I love that. And fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Don't ever sit at your desk for eight hours? Move, move, dance, play, do something. I love that everyone piled Caduci. The book's name is Life Pass. Go grab your copies. Make sure make sure you tag meat and Pile on Instagram. Make sure you go and follow her if you don't already,

And let us know what resonated, what connected. This was a phenomenal episode, and I can't wait to see what you do next. Pile. I'm so excited and grateful to have you in our life, and I know that this is just the beginning of a new chapter, so thank you, appreci