MALALA: The Story The World Hasn’t Heard Until Now

out what had happened. And you know, I still had not even seen what was out there on the media about me.

through difficult times. So my hope is that it helps people find their way.

beliefs and opinions and expectations onto us. And so I wanted to start off by asking you that you open the book with I'll never know who I was supposed to be, because the world decided who you were before you got to become Talk to me about how that felt the first time you understood that.

was out there on the media about me. You know, I was like, you know, what does this new life mean? Do I take on this new journey in a new place and how do I recover from the trauma that I have faced. I knew that the only way I can actually have some hope in life is by dedicating my life to girls education. So I took on this journey to become a girls education activist. I was defined

as a brave, courageous activist. You know, when I learned more about how I was described in the world, I said, Okay, wow, maybe, okay, this is what it means when you survive a terrorist attack. This is how you're supposed to live your life, and and there's not much you can do. You cannot go back to the old life. You cannot expect a normal life because you are now invited to these big events and gatherings and you are receiving awards and you are getting titles. You have to live up to it now.

So I said, Okay, it means I cannot have a normal life. I cannot be that normal student. I cannot feel the same love or just have that that normal life as as a teenager, you know, as a as a young woman. So I sort of embraced it. You know, you sort of internalize it, and you embrace it whatever people say about you and you then you begin to live up to that.

making a change happen. And at the same time, like I'm fifteen years old, I have to be studying at the same time, I have to learn so much and and try to be a normal student, and then also maintain like writing a book and giving speeches and you know, like receiving a Nobel Peace Prize at age seventeen. I remember I was still in my school and that morning my team asked me if I wanted to stay back and prepare a media statement just in case. And I said,

are you guys crazy? Do you think a school student should be receiving a Nobel Peace Prize? So I went to my school. I was in my chemistry class. My school's deputy head teacher walked in and called me outside and informed me that I had won the Nobel Peace Prize. I was like shocked. I said thank you to her. I gave short remarks to everybody in the school to just thank them and talk about the importance of education. Then I went back to like my physics class, and

I completed my school. Actually, I said, I'm not going to do any interviews or anything. I'm going to finish my school. You know, that day, I felt that so many like students sort of looked at me. And I felt really noticed that day because in this new school, I was a very quiet person, and I thought, you know, I thought like everybody saw me as an activist and

nobody really wanted to be friends with me. But the next day, when everything was back to normal, I felt that most people turned their faces away and it just went back to like that normal day. Were I just I just you know, wanted to have I wanted to have friends, and it, you know, wasn't there.

I just wanted to be the girl I was in Pakistan, mischievous, exploring new things, adventurous, chatting with friend all the time and like copying or like mimicking people's accents and talking about, like you know, gossip and all of those things. And I just thought, maybe, like maybe that's that part of my life is is gone.

But it almost made me laugh and I was like, oh wow, like Milala, like the Malala sees herself as a mischievous, you know, funny person who's you know, a trouble maker. Yeah, Like, tell me about that version of you, Like take us back to that version of you.

access to. I thought I was lucky that my father was so supportive of allowing me to be in school. So I valued and treasured every moment at school. And you know, hear people complain about being in school and they can't wait for it to finish. It was the other way around for us. We wanted to stay in

school for as long as we could. Because when girls exposure is limited, and when you live in a patriarchal society where you cannot really leave your home, so you know, you're supposed to stay inside the four walls of a house, so school becomes that place of safety for you where you can explore things, but at the same time, like you know you are you are in a safe place, but you can explore the things that you love and enjoy.

So we we loved our time in school, and I just wish that I could have all of that in the UK as well, in this new school. And somehow it was very challenging to like make it happen. I was trying house like participating in almost everything that I could.

I was signing up for like a two hundred meter race, and then I was trying to be part of the debating society because I wanted to make friends, not that I wanted to add more to my personal statement or wanted to be an excellent student, like truly, deeply, all I wanted was to get an opportunity where I could like talk to friends.

So when she was admitted into a primary school and she was the only girl in that classroom, she sold her books because she said, there's no point no other girl is going to a school, and she got some candies in return. She never saw a classroom after that. It was then years later, when you know, when she finally was married to my dad, and my dad has been very supportive of like women's rights and girls' education,

she started relearning again. So when I, you know, when I was seeing how women and girls are asking for one thing, and that is the right to learn, I knew that it was truly a privilege to be in school.

But I think, you know, the moment when I realized that this was not something that girls can access so easily and it can be taken away. Was when the Taliban took over.

the other person, and you can make different decisions. So for my dad, it was this simple dream where he wanted girls to have exactly the same rights as voice, and he always questioned why his sisters could not be in school while he could be. And he knew that for things to change for women and girls, men have to change and do better. So he became a feminist father before he had even heard the feminism. And he usually says that don't ask me what I did, but ask me what I did not do. I did not

clip her wings. So he believes in the autonomy, in the in the power of women and girls. He says, like, we don't need to do anything, We just need to take a step back and give them space. So my father was an amazing father. I consider myself lucky and I remind people that my story is not unique. So many other girls in my hometown wanted to speak out against the Taliban oppression for their right to education, but

their brothers or their fathers stop them. The only thing that's different in my story is that my father did not stop me.

good father, other fathers follow their footsteps. And my father is spreading this message that true honor lies in standing up for women and girls when their rights are taken away. And you can be fulfilling your role as a father when you empower your daughters when they have equal rights, when they fulfill their dreams, not that you marry them off, like that's not true fatherhood. You give them the education so they choose their future for themselves.

imagine the judgment and the kind of criticism.

And I remember that cousin just going to my dad and telling him that or Malala should like cover her face, and it's just, you know, such a shame to the family's name. And my dad told him to mind his own business and told him to like just basically like, it's none of your business what she does. It's her choice whatever she wants to wear. So in those moments, you know, you do reflect and wonder what if your dad had not spoken out for you, things would have

been different. So it makes a huge difference when people become your allies and they stand up for you.

were doing for us. So I said, okay, you know what, I'll become the prime minister and I will fix all the problems in the world. Of course, that dream of mind changed because I realized that if you look at the world politics, people in leadership positions are rather disappointing us by not addressing these injustices and these deep rooted problems. So, of course my dreams have changed throughout life. But at the time, I just wanted a different reality, a different

future for us. I simply wanted girls to be able to go to school, to not be stopped, to not be threatened, to not be harmed, to not be killed, to learn, and to follow their dreams. I did not want people to pick up their guns and target a girl simply because she wants to be in school and she wants to follow her dreams. But this is a reality, like you know, for women and girls to exist and to have equal opportunities or just to have a life

in dignity as a human, they're threatened for that. It's really hard to process, but this is a reality like so many many women have experienced or are still living through.

And then they started like attacking people for it. They would announce somebody's name that you know, this person dared to disobey our rules and and uh, and then they were like they would kill them. It was terrifying time and then it affected like me directly, and it affected guls directly when the Taliban announced that no Gul will

be allowed to be in school. And I remember the day when the band was imposed and I woke up and I just couldn't go to school anymore because the Taliban would be on the roads on the streets, and and you know, you could not be seen with a with a backpack or in your school uniform. And I remember the morning when my brothers would pack their school bags and go off while I had to stay behind my I think then like a few weeks later, some of our friends sort of came out with this idea

that why don't we just go in our home clothes and like wear a long hefty scarf basically and like hide our bag and still like make it to school. So we also like went to school secretly. But it was I was like, you know, why we should not be living in a world where girls have to hide that their learning. It should be right that every girl should be freely receiving.

there's just lack of action as well. So I was speaking at the local press conferences, we were doing peace walks, we spoke to the local media, and then these international platforms also reached out. So the BBC blog, you know, the BBC journalist approached my dad and said that they wanted a student to share about their life under the Taliban.

So my dad actually asked another gun at the school, and you know, she shared her blog for one day and then her father came the next day and said he could he can't allow his daughter to share her blog. So when I heard that, I went to my dad and I said, Dad, like, I want I want to write my blog. I want to share my story. So my dad said, okay, like, if you want to do it, I'll support you. So I started blogging about my life.

I talked about, you know, the last days of school and then what life was like under the Taliban education ban. I wanted the world to know what was happening. And I believe that change does not happen itself. Things will remain as they are if we're waiting for somebody else to come and save us. So I knew that I need to do my part as much as I can, and if that means telling my story at these conferences, at these local platforms to the international media, I will

do that. My father was an activist, so I was just simply following his footsteps, and we both became this, these activists doing the work together.

an education is dark. We had seen stories of women who lost their dreams because they were not being able to go to school. So simply it was a dream to have a future with equal opportunities. We can stand on our own two feet, we can make a living for our cells, we can know about our rights, we can protect our rights. And so education was a pathway. And when you are living in a patriarchal society, education becomes the only pathway.

some change could happen, I would choose the latter because I wanted to see things change, because I wanted simply a different future for ourselves. And it's really hard to tell, you know, if it was the voice of like one activist who changed something or not. Like so many people were involved. You know, there was a whole civil society who were advocating for bringing peace and for like you know,

like speaking against the Taliban's restrictions. Then this military operation was done, we returned to we became internally displaced, and then the summer of two thousand and nine, we returned to Swath Valley and we restarted our lives. So many schools were bombed, so many police stations and different like political officials, buildings, and so many things were like damaged. There were suicide attacks, people had lost their loved ones.

So our area, you know, Swath valley, which has been known as the as a place of tourism and it's known for its beauty and it's called like the Switzerland of the East, became like a place of terrorism and it was now just like war tone area. So we had to then rebuild it. And I knew that it was not just groups like the Taliban that we have to stand up against, but we also have to talk

about the mindset, the mentality that still exists. It does not have the like a name, it does not necessarily is in the shape of an armed group, but the ideology is there, and we have to stand up against this ideology that do not see women as equal humans and that deny women and gulls their rights. So my father and I continued our activism, but we just thought that the Taliban were gone. But somehow, you know, they

were still there in the distance. And I yeah, And then in twenty twelve, at age fifteen, I was attacked by the Taliban.

activist through the blog these conferences speaking were you scared that that could ever happen and that could possibility with that across your mind.

take on. It's really incredible in your book, and I want to be very sensitive to do with this because of the way you write about it. And when I was at this point in your book, it really, you know, it really took me a second a process it myself, and you talked about how you said, my life is so happy now and it's hard to look back, and I appreciate that. I can't imagine. I can't even come close to imagine how hard it is to even reflect on being attacked by the Taliban and in the manner

that it happened. I believe you're on a bus, yes, the school bus. So walk me through what you can sensitively and mindfully in the best way for you to share that experience so people can understand what happened.

face was uncovered. He immediately started firing bullets. One bullet immediately had hit me on the left side of my forehead, and two bullets hit the friends who were sitting right next to me in their arms and in their hand. I do not remember the exact incident, you know, And this has been my answer so far. I have like many like memories in my head, but I sort of

have told myself I do not remember it. And I was then taken to a hospital and from one hospital to then another to then another, and then eventually I was moved to the UK for my further treatment. And you know, I survived, My friends survived. I started my school again in the UK. My friends also or moved to the UK and they started their school. So you know, when I when I look back, I'm just really grateful that, uh, you know that that we're all alive and we completed

our education. But like everything changed that day, you know, like we didn't make it to our homes. It was it was sort of a terrible, terrible moment. All I remember is the last day of school and then waking up in a hospital in Birmingham in the UK and just realizing that I have a tube in my neck and I can't talk, and I just look around and I see these nurses and doctors speaking in English. They look very different than like the brown people I had

seen in Pakistan. And I said, I feel like I'm in a different place, and I am sort of writing down to them to just tell me where I was as a you know, where am I like? What happened to me? And I repeatedly asked one question, where's my father? And then I would also add, who's going to pay for this? I don't have money, so I was worried about the medical bill. You know, I think Americans would understand where I was coming from, but I just wanted

to get better and leave the hospital, go back to my old life. It took me a while to realize that, you know, my life had taken a turn. My parents joined me ten days later at the hospital. That was the first time I actually cried, because a lot of people might think that when I woke up, I might have been under like so much and trauma, might have been crying day and night. No, I just I wasn't

feeling normal. The pain is so intense that you just forget the normal emotions to process it, the normal reactions. So I couldn't even cry. And the first time I saw my family when they came back to the when they came to the UK, that was the first moment I cried, because you know, when you see your family, you connect with that normal life that you had before. So and then before I even realized, you know, I

had like a few more surgeries to go through. And then you know, they said, okay, we want you to do this like interview and we're supposed, you know, we want you to give this speech at the un and we also have this book offer, so it would be good if you can sign the book offer. So, and you have to start school as well, because we don't know when you can go back, but you should start school in the UK. So I joined a new school.

And this is this like new pathway that my life took. To be honest, Like in my heart, I thought this is all temporary, Like this is all temporary for now because we are going to go back to Pakistan as soon as possible and we will have a normal life. I just had no idea what was out there and what had happened. So, like the first time when I learned about the response from like people around the world was when this person from the hospital brought a basket

of cards and letters. And I'm like reading cards and letters from people around the world like US and Japan and India and Canada, and I'm like, wait a second, Like do people know about me, and then I like looked at you know, sort of news on Google and all of that. It's like wait a second, wow, Like this is this is truly an opportunity because people have heard my but maybe I can bring attention to the

stories of girls around the world. So I started Malala Fund as well at the time, an organization I have dedicated to girls education. So before I knew it, like, you know, everything had switched. Now now I was sort of like the lead activist. My father was following my footsteps, and I was like helping my family as well. I was, you know, doing a book or speeches and things like that to help support my family. And I also had to be a student at the same time.

with somebody and I don't want to sit alone. So by the end of my school I just had only made one one best friend and we're now like friends for life, but just one one friend at school. And so that that was all tough, because when you're like so busy and you have all of this work going on, it's you know, it's hard. It's hard to be a normal student at school.

false narratives calling what I do as like un Islamic or all of that. I mean, like learning and education is a core part of Islam. I wish sometimes that they read what they're preaching, Like if they read more about Islam, they will learn that the most important thing is actually seeking knowledge and learning. And there's nothing in the religion that says a woman or a girl cannot learn. So how can they make up these new rules by themselves.

It's just simply paid and misogyny, you know, it's they try to misreligions exactly exactly. Yeah, I mean, I I sometimes think about how much can I understand their ideology, and then how can I convince them. I was of

this view for a long time. I thought maybe I could sit down with them and explain it to them, and I can tell them that, you know, I have also read the Quran with translation, or like I know all the ninety nine names of Allah off by heart, and I can sort of say, like you know that that they don't own the religion, like there are all of us from many cultures and many backgrounds who connect with with the faith that you know, education is not

a threat to women. It's rather about their empowerment and that it is a core part of Islam. But with time I realized that you know, it's it's not about that, it's not about you know, changing their ideologies, but it's talking about the deep cause of why these extreme ideologies emerge. And education is a pathway to challenge indoctrination, to encourage critical thinking among people, and to empower people like education is the most powerful equalizer and it can help us

address so many of these social economic injustices. And at the same time, like, you know, if the Taliban do not want to see women and girls empowered or in education, the best way for me to fight back is to help girls and women get education and equal opportunities. So I shifted my focus. I said, I'm going to focus on educating girls. The Taliban wanted to stop one girl from learning, Let's educate every girl in the world.

conversations did not come up at the time. I had, like many doctors and nurses, and I loved all of them, but the therapist at the hospital was my least favorite. And you know, she would ask me, how are you feeling today? And I would roll my eyes that you know, what does she know? And like my father, my parents and we sort of said not to therapy. We said it's okay, like, you know, I'm doing fine. I have recovered,

like the surgeries are successful. I have recovered. And then it was like years later that I wished that I had received therapy because I thought, I I, you know, I had recovered and everything was fine. I just thought I did not remember the attack, so I'm good. I can move on. And then seven years later I had flashbacks that were triggered by a bong incident. Yeah, so you know, this is now college time, and I was open to exploring many things in college. I you know,

my life had taken this shift. I was becoming a different young person. So this was like, you know, a normal light. And I was hanging out with some friends and they showed me a long and I was like, what is this and it's like, oh, you know, just give it a try. Nothing harmful. So I take one puff, I cough, and on the second attempt, I inhale it and I felt it went all inside my body and what was like supposed to be a fun night just took a sharp turn and immediately I froze. I thought

I was reliving the attack. The flashbacks were in front of my eyes. I thought I could see the gunmen again. I was shaking, I was shivering, you know, I could hear my heart beat. I was you know, I just I wanted to scream. It was like the such a trauma that I was going through in that moment, and it like went on and on. I just wanted it to stop, and I felt so helpless, like time slowed down,

you know. I thought, maybe this is the afterlife, maybe maybe I'm dead, maybe it has happened again, like maybe the gunmen are back. And I was like so scared that I could not even close my eyes and fall asleep because I thought if I close my eyes that I will die. And like even even the next day, I thought, you know, this will like sort of magically disappear. You just hope the next day to be normal, And it wasn't the case, and I realized that my life

had changed. I had many panic attacks after that, and I as much as I tried, I just could it was not going away.

you thought you were coming back to. It sounds like there wasn't any time or space to process any of that, And had you had the therapy support that you would have wanted, maybe it wouldn't have happened that way. Yeah, talk to me about how when did you was that when you first started looking at emotions like grief and anger, and what were the emotions that came up after that seven year reminder?

small things or just nothing terrified me. I felt that I had failed in living up to the expectation of being brave and courageous, and that was the hardest part to process. I just could not take in more and

I was frustrated with myself because I thought like Malana remembered, like, you went through so much, you processed it, and you could take so much on your shoulders. Why is it breaking you down now when like you are safe and there's nothing to be worried about, You like everything is okay, and somehow you're like frightened. Now that is just like so hard to process at the time that you feel

like so frustrated with yourself. There's this anger frustration, and you feel like you are an impostor because you know you have you have failed to meet this definition of being brave. So for months, like it went on that even my friends started noticing that I was not doing okay. So one of my friends then suggested that I see a therapist. And that was the first time, after seven or eight years, that I started therapy.

really hard things. Yes, but the mind still finds a way to make you feel guilty and shameful and frustrated that you haven't figured out, or an impostor as you just said, like, oh you're an impostor because you're helping people have hope, but you're still dealing with this, and it's amazing how the mind can just get the better of us. Yeah, regardless of what we've lived through.

about what was going on. She told me that, you know, this is PTSD and anxiety. She said, it could be like many things. You might be stressed about your exams or your college life, and so many things that you are thinking about right now in life, but this is anxiety, and this is PTSD that you are experiencing, like many many years later, you know, I was so annoyed. I

was saying, like, so, how can we fix this? I was hoping she would give me some medication, that she would fix the problem, but she made me realize that it takes time. It takes time to process. She taught me different techniques, like breathing techniques to help myself when I am facing anxiety. Uh and uh and and she, you know, helped me understand that there's only so much

like you can take at a time. And maybe you could many years ago, but maybe right now that you know, she calls it a wind of tolerance, that your wind of tolerance is maybe you know, sort of shrinking a bit and then it expands a bit at times that maybe you have just too much on your shoulders that you are overwhelmed, or sometimes when we don't address it on time, it piles up and then it's they gets

so heavy that it breaks you down. So she said, like you might be experiencing that as well. So, yeah, like the therapy really changed everything for me. Like if I had not received therapy, I just do not even know if I would have been like in this position right now.

had some challenges with my mental health. And my mom was like, just don't be stressed, like you know, just be happy. And the same with my dad. He's like, you know, we want to see you happy, and when you are sad, it makes us sad, but when you happy, it makes us happy. And I was like, okay, like I'll try, but this is not how it works. I usually debate with my dad that you know, I have the right to be sad as well, that these are all emotions and we need to give ourselves time to

process that. I found my friends very helpful. So at college, all the amazing friends that I had made helped me in this time because they were there for me. They were not my therapists, but they made sure that I like did not feel alone. That you know, they were sharing moments with me, taking me to dinner or taking me to an event or something like taking me for a walk, simple things like that. And then a few times they did a sleepover with me because I you know,

I was struggling. I was struggling to fall asleep, and every you know, every day a friend would take a turn to a sleepover. You know, the first time that I was able to like fall asleep, And yeah, it was like my friends who made me feel that getting therapy it's okay, Like, don't be disappointed with yourselves that somehow you have not lived up to the expectation of, you know, being this brave girl who knows an answer to everything and she has figured it out. Like it's okay.

So many people who you might think have got it all together are actually getting therapy. And when my friend told me that she herself was seeing a therapist, I said, wow, like I had no idea. She said, yeah, like you may not know what a lot of people are, so it's like it's okay. And my therapist told me the same thing. So that gave me a sense of relief

where you just like don't feel alone anymore. And that's why, like I'm sharing my story because I'm wondering how many people are out there who might feel alone, who may not know a way out. I just want to tell them that I was in the same place, and I wished somebody had told me their story and had told us, like it's okay to ask for help, like, you know,

get therapy, get the support, talk to somebody. I took months to actually see a therapist, So I hope that when people read my story, they they ask for help.

all out. It is a non judgmental environment that they create for you, and especially for people like some of us who are exposed to a public life and who have a public profile. We have seen how you know, we can be criticized or scrutinized for almost anything, and we have to somehow to say all the correct things. But when you find friends that you trust, who love you and support you no matter what, you can be

yourself with them. So like with my friends, I you know, I can be silly, I can be funny, I can talk about any topic. I can talk about boys and astrology, and you know, we can discuss their their their love lives and and in that moment, I just don't feel like I have to be somebody or I have to like live up to some sort of a profile that I have. I feel like I can just simply be myself.

and you know, like sort of when we connected. We we were talking about what we were studying and what we liked about our subjects, and then we were visiting these different exhibitions about different societies and clubs at the college fair. So then there was this like Oxford Union Fair as well. It's like a famous debating society, and you know, I was like hiding this identity of mine,

of being you know, an activist. So I'm looking at the at the poster of the Oxford Union and I see all of these famous speakers who have spoken there before, and then I see a photo of mine, and I was like, oh, you know, why did they put it there? Or like how do I hide myself because this is like the last thing I want to see. And then some people spotted me. They asked for a photo, and this friend of mine, like she was just so supportive.

She took you know, photos of me, you know, with the fans, and I was like, oh, like it's over. She may never want to talk to me again, like the friendship is over. But once that was done, you know, I was like, I'm so sorry, I said, you know, and she said it's okay, like you know, and we just quickly changed our conversation back to okay, like you know,

what are we going to get for our groceries? Or you know, when when is our next essay? And all of that. I think with friends like these, you like, you know, you can be more yourself.

coach than a player. You know, talk to me about that experience of again, like it goes back to what you were saying earlier, like you're trying to live up to this symbol you're not binge watching TV shows, you're not dating, you're not you know, no, walk me through that paradox of being a young woman who's wanting to experience the world growing up, but then having to keep this reminder almost of who what you stand for.

And then they were like, how do you know it all? I was like, I don't know. Yeah I do sometimes say, you know, like a coach doesn't have to be on the field, Like I did not expect to have like a love story. And even though like just growing up, I had seen Bollywood movies and everybody has imagined Sharokhan like figure, you know, we all imagine ourselves in the

Sharokhan songs. But I became very self conscious to the attack because my facial nerve was damaged on the left side and that caused asymmetry, and you know, like my smile and the features were not the same anymore, and you know, sort of like you noticed, right, like you notice you're not the same person anymore. So I became it's more self aware, and I just thought, okay, like I you know, I should not like I just thought

like nobody would love me. And at the same time, I was like, but nobody, because you know, we're.

I did find a crush. He was just like good looking guy, not my husband, A different guy, a good looking guy, a really mysterious character, more like a gangster kind of character. I did not know I was attracted to like the bad voice, and it was more like a one sided love in imagination. It wasn't real because you know, he would just sometimes like say hello to me, come to my room, and eat all the bananas and cookies and then disappear, you know, there was like there

was like I just had no idea. My friends would sometimes say that, you know, he's doing drugs and stuff like that, so stay away from him, and I was like, no, he needs my head, like somebody needs to protect him. Yeah, but like when you yourself are in that love phase, then it's you can't see it clearly. It is true, like you know, you just can't see it. But yeah, then that crush ghosted me and that story was over.

But I was like, you know, at least I just went through a moment of feeling love and maybe I loved it because I was under this like assumption that you know, I cannot be loved and I will never find somebody. So I said, just why there's no harm in just loving somebody in your imagination?

middle of that, I just forgot to love myself. That was the hard part. But when I found this new guy in my life, sir, who's now my husband. So there's there's a good ending to this story, you know. I immediately fell in love with him because he was like so good looking, heart and handsome, funny, here a good sense of humor. He was laughing at my jokes. I thought, he's just so entertaining. I was like, wow, like is he they? Is he like the person that

I had sort of imagined, you know, for myself. So when you know, when Asa and I started like talking and we were getting to know each other, I knew that I love him and I wanted to be with him. The marriage was a whole different conversation, so we can come back to that. But the other conversation was about me accepting that he loves me. I was in so much doubt I could not trust it. I you know, I just constantly felt like, you know, but why would

he love me? And then like in the end, I just told myself that, you know, somebody can't write a proof to you to say, hey, I give you a proof that I love you. If they are treating you with respect and they make you happy and they're there for you and they want to spend the rest of their life with you, then they love you and embrace that. Accept that, like, don't question it, don't doubt it. You can't give them any guarantee. They can't give you any guarantee.

So I had to like process that. It was really hard, but in the end I accepted it because I constantly would have these questions in my head, but like, are you okay with like the way I look at it? Okay if I can't have like a full smile, and are you okay with like sort of the left side of my face and all of that. Like sometimes I would try to ask him this question, and sometimes these questions would be floating in my mind and then I

would just remind myself, like, he's here with you. He's looking at you, and he's smiling, like he can't stop looking at you. He's calling you gorgeous and beautiful. So accept that embrace that user loved me, and he you know, with him like I have felt this immense love and joy, So he loves me. But more than that, I think I started loving myself.

how did he what was his viewpoint on that? Of course I assume yes it's supportive, but I'd love to know what his journey was and his experience if that was Yeah.

like wow, he's such a nice man. So yes, I do sometimes say that he is an amazing person, like so open minded and like he just respects women's dignity and and see and see them as like equal humans and which is which should be the case. But then at the same time, I'm like, that should be called a basic man. It's a basic normal man.

It's really really obvious, makes a lot of sense. Was it was it hard for you to fall in love and date and build a relationship with the expectations that come from you know, your home, that come from culture, that come from family. Like of course you've talked about your father being more forward thinking when it comes to women's education. But I feel like dating, love, romance, these are not easy topics in a South Asian home.

was marriage because you know, like I had to then understand that, like in reality, if I want to be with us or we have to get married, because culturally, you cannot be with a person, you know, you have to like get married to live with them. So I knew that, you know, I cannot sort of like change that whole culture all of a sudden. And at the same time, like I said, you know, like I have seen how marriage has changed the future of so many

girls who were forced into it. I you know, we know that tens of millions of girls every year are married off before the age of eighteen, and this is you know, this has been an institution that has given less to women through history and across the globe. So it wasn't that I was against marriage or for marriage or any of that, but I was just like confused. I said, like, okay, like this, this is not an

easy decision. And I felt that I was thinking collectively for all women when I was considering marriage for myself. So like, on the one hand, I just wanted to be with us, sir, I said, like, there's no doubt about that, But at the same time, I also was grappling with this idea of marriage. In the end, I you know, I did all of my like research, and I chatted with my friends and we were like reading books by famous feminist authors and all of that. But I said to User that you know, it's it's about

this like mutual agreement between us. And the more we talked, the more sort of I spent time with him. I just understood who he was as a person and how he would be like a great supportive husband, and I just saw how I enjoyed my time in his company, that when I was with him, all these questions that would be floating in my mind would just vanish. And I remember we went to Lake Placid, And this was

a few months before marriage. While I was still thinking, I said, maybe it's like over, maybe like I'll ask him all the questions and he'll answer one incorrectly and it's done. But the more time we spent together, sort of I was getting those answers without even asking those questions. So on the last day in Lake Placid, he said, so, you know, are you gonna ask me the questions finally or not? And I said, I think I have the answer, and I said I'm ready. I think I'm ready to

be with you for the rest of my life. So then, you know, a few months later, we finally got married. And I still say that I am not proposing that marriage is the best decision for every woman out there. I'm not saying it's the worst decision for every woman

out there. I think it should be a conversation that we should be having openly, and you know, we should redefine these traditions, these norms, and talk about how it can be this beautiful mutual agreement between two people where they add more to their lives and make each other's life happier, more joyful, more adventurous, and that we challenge, you know, the elements of it that have given less to women, and you know and talk about the bigger problems.

whether someone decides to choose to get married or not. I think that level of thought, yes, is just inherently important and necessary.

I was like, you know, you should never listen to a person, you know, if they randomly give you advice. I said, I'm an education activist, like, listen to me on that. Don't consider me an expert on every topic, especially marriage.

from education, work, and any public and political life. The Afghan women activists and different human rights groups are calling it a gender apartheid, which means that it is a form of an apartheid or a systematic oppression simply based on gender. That if you are born a girl, you have a different life. You cannot even dream to be

in school or to work. So like, when I just think about what's happening with girls education, how there is a country where girls are banned from education and at the same time there are conflicts, wars, and a genocide happening where schools are bombed, where children are attacked, and children are losing their future, like you know, from Sudan, Congo all the way to Palestine, like what we have witness happening in Gaza, like right in front of our eyes,

on our screens. It's it's like, it's terrifying. I just simply wish for a future for girls where they can live a dignified life with full access to education. And we know that that cannot happen if we do not address the problems or the injustices that are happening right

in front of our eyes. So these topics, you know, whether it's about the wars and conflicts, or whether it's about like climate related events like floods or other injustices, we cannot separate them from how it's affecting gulls education. And at the same time, like you know, we can, we can, we can think differently. We can think about investing in the future of girls. We can think about investing in education or focusing on children as a way

to help us address these problems as well. So education is like one of the most powerful and like best solutions to a lot of the world inequalities injustices. So that's you know, that's something that I advocate for. That's the focus of my work. So these are like the issues that I focus on.

that we hear about in the world. You know, if we're talking about Afghanistan, if you're talking about Gaza, if you're talking about Nigeria, if you're talking about guls' education challenges in Pakistan or other countries, we have to work together with the local activists because they understand and the problems and they understand the best solutions to those problems

as well. So, you know, when I started my foundation, Malala Fund, like you know, I was ambitious to like make change happen everywhere, but I had to really question myself, what can help us make real change. I you know, I have given many speeches and received many awards and all of that. I can tell you that it's not about one speech, even though like in history, we are sort of taught like it was that one speech of

I have a dream that changed everything. No, I think it's it's decades long work to shift narrative, to change policies, to change the law. That is real change. And yes, everything like adds up. You know, we cannot say that, you know, one action is completely useless. It adds up. But we have to have a bigger picture. So through Malala Fund, we are investing in local education activists in Nigeria,

in Pakistan. We're also working in Ethiopia, Tanzania and Brazil, and then Afghanistan is our priority country because of the literal ban on girls education. We are providing support to the local education activists who are giving alternative education to girls right now. You know, we're thinking about ways to help take education to the homes of girls when the Taliban are not allowing them to be in school. This

is like our short term response. But we cannot you know, see this as normal girls should be allowed to be

in school. So we are also supporting the Afghan women activists who are doing advocacy leading these campaigns, asking leaders to hold the Taliban accountable, and they're asking leaders to codify gender apartheid, to recognize what's happening in Afghanistan as a gender apartheid, to put more pressure on the Taliban, to include women in the rooms where decisions about their future are made, to put women's rights on the agenda, and to change the reality that women and girls in

Afghanistan are living under. Like for me, if you ask me, are we doing enough or not? For me? Like the response is like, yes, we're doing something, But I think about the girls who are out of school right now. For as long as the band continues and girls are not in school, I don't think we're doing enough. So we constantly need to be doing more whatever is in our capacity to help Afghan women and girls have the

future that they deserve. So supporting local education activists is the most powerful way to drive real change.

in multiple states. Like five years ago, you know, a girl was not guaranteed education beyond her primary level and today you know she's guaranteed her secondary education. It's because of the work of these activists. So they do an incredible work. They have changed the lives of so many girls, empowered them. And when I meet the girls, like you can see the change happen like right in front of your eyes. So it's like they're truly inspiring. And I

actually focus on supporting young women and gul activists. So when we talk about activists, I'm like, we have to support the girls because they're the ones who are actually experiencing these problems and these challenges, and they can be the best ones to actually advocate for their rights. So I also focus on like giving grants and support to the girls activists.

a at least a feeling of that. And having grown up in London, of course it was somewhat easier, but at the same time you still see the discrepancies that exist. And so yeah, if I can be useful, please let

me know. As I've been listening to you today, Malala, I've been wondering, now, when you look back at the attack and you look back on that moment, how do you process it after the therapy, after the years away after the seven years when it came back, Like, how do you view that day and event now after all this time.

I want to go. I want to stay, to go as fast as it can, because I just do not want to think about you know how you know a person, a gunman could decide to target a fifteen year old girl. It's really hard. It's not just about like what I experienced, but it puts you in a place where you feel less hope for humanity. But in moments like these, I just try to live this day as normal as I can and not think about it. And I just remind myself of the millions of people who stood with me

and supported me. I think about the immense love that I have received. I just think about the incredible activists who have joined hands with me to help create a better future for guls. I just think about the collective work that we're all doing. So, you know, I just reflect on how we can create a world where no other child faces a bullet, how we can create a world where every child can have the right to be

in school and play and read and learn and have a normal childhood. So it's just a reminder of of this commitment to creating a better future for for every girl and every child out there. So that's that's what I focus on.

don't like to think about it. You know, it's it's it's it's it's much more much more real to hear you say that, And I think it's important. That's what I think this book Finding My Way does is that people get a real view on what activism actually looks like. Because I think we have I think we're looking for heroes, and because we're looking for heroes, we have a gloryfied view of what activism looks like.

up for their education. Like I was in Tanzania and I learned about these incredible activists who themselves when they were in school, you know, had to fight for staying in school every day. And today they are changing the lives of many girls out there. They're you know, giving them bicycles because they have to walk for long distances to have the safety and to make it to school sooner.

They are giving them safety in schools. They are changing the laws which did not allow girls who became pregnant and mothers at a young age to return to school. They have like reversed that. They're like every girl should be in school. When you look at these milestones, it just gives you so much more hope. And I'm just like so proud of the work that Afghan women activists are doing. They're resilient, they're standing up through the Taliban, and they are the future of Afghanistan. So I have

so much hope. You know, I know that the Taliban would not be in power forever. It's the Afghan women and girls who will be shaping the future of their country.

everywhere now. And I feel this sense of belonging when I'm in the company of my family, when I'm chatting with my friends and we are laughing out loud, or when I am holding the hand of my husband. This is sort of the sense of belonging that I feel. And I think, you know, it's like when you when you meet so many people, you just realize we're all one. So I hope that we can promote more of that.

And I have always had this sense of like home and I and I was always looking for home, like you know, we we've always lived in rented buildings, so I just never thought like what was my my real and my true home. But now you know, for me, like home, home is everywhere. And I have been on this journey to make change happen for girls in the world.

And the one place that was always on my mind was my own hometown in Pakistan, where I saw how girls were still dreaming to finish their school and there were there were no high school in the village where my parents and were born. So when I started like Malalafund and when I won the Nobel Peace prize. It came with the prize money as well, So I said, you know what, I Am going to make a school there.

And it's considered to be one of the most difficult areas to work in because it's up in the mountains and nobody wants to go and work there. But I said, if we can make it happen there, I think we can make it happen in any part of the country. You know, we work. We worked on it for the past seven eight years, and this year the first class graduated. I went to Pakistan in March. I visited the school

for the first time. It was so different than what I had seen on PowerPoint presentations and in photos, you know, like just just seeing that in the middle of these of these mountains there's this beautiful school where girls are learning, they are playing, they are talking, they're laughing, they are dreaming of having future for themselves. It was the most rewarding feeling. And what I loved was the support that they received. Like they played chess and it's like a

state of the art school. They have all of these

different like activities. It's an incredible school. But when I saw the mental health office, that made me so happy. And the girls were telling me how they get mental health support. They sometimes do these different activities where they just sing together and dance and sometimes just scream to

let it all out. So when I was just reflecting on my own mental health journey and how I wished we had more support, that I had more support, and how you know we want more support for girls, it just gave me so much joy that the girls were getting the support that they were, that they deserved and

that they should have. So that was such a rewarding moment, and it gives me hope that we can make education a reality for every girl in every corner of the world, and all those one hundred and twenty two million girls who do not have access to education, we can do something for them. We can ensure that every girl can be in school, every girl can complete our education.

for you to be able to open that school. And what I love about your focus is that there's the academic education, but there's also that value that you're putting on the emotional education that all of these girls require, so that they can truly achieve their full potential and not be held back because the academic qualification gives them access and as you said, creates more equality, but the emotional education helps them protect themselves and really stand up

for themselves as well. So that's incredible. I mean, I hope I can visit one there.

always knew it would be, but meeting you and sitting with you here face to face, getting the chance to read your book early, it's it's beyond what I expected. It's surpassed all my expectations. Just the depth, the grace, the humor with which you carry yourself.

your dreams. But I remember hearing those words when I was, you know, a child, and it meant everything to me because some people give you this hope and this belief that maybe you can do it too. So these things mean a lot. But I think more than that, it's you offering your support and making somebody feel that you are there for them, they're not alone. I think actions are just way more powerful.

I always feel like I have received more than what I deserve. I mean, like getting a Nobel Peace Prize at seventeen. I can work for the rest of my life and still feel like I did not deserve it, because still millions of girls are out of school. So, you know, I would keep on questioning myself like can we make the change happen? Can we make it sooner? But I then remind myself that it's you know. As much as we love to say one person changed the world, even I myself said one book, one pen can change

the world. I think a person can start a change, they can spark it. But it is the work of collective activism that can help us see the change become a reality. So I just constantly remind myself this. You know, I'm at times disappointed, like why are these things happening? But it's you know, Afghanistan, Gaza, one hundred and twenty million girls out of school, child marriage, so many things. But then I'm like, the work is in action, it

is happening. Keep supporting education activists, keep doing the advocacy, keep empowering and uplifting girls' voices and stopping and you know, like and doubting yourself is not the answer that you know, you don't want to go still where everything stops, So keep it going, accelerate it. But it's a constant conversation that I have with myself.

secondary education of guls. But then at the same time, there are also like cultural and social norms where you know, it's become a taboo where girls are not allowed to be in school. We're seeing this happen in Afghanistan and many other parts of the world where just education is discouraged for girls. There are just too many restrictions that girls face. But I do believe that, you know, there

is a way for us to work towards solving these problems, and I think it has to start with investing in education. We have to address the supply side issues first, because you want to make a school before you go and address the more like you know, the social stigma or you know, how do we change the mentality and sometimes

those things just happen naturally. We have seen in many areas, including my parents' village in Pakistan, where once the school was built and a state of the art education was provided. The norms started changing themselves because they saw that, they saw the real power of education. How these girls are like are you know, are having these different career paths that they could achieve. They could not only be helping themselves,

but they could be helping their families as well. And everybody realizes that it's actually a benefit to the community as well. When a girl receives her education, there's economic empowerment, there's more prosperity, powerty reduces, and you know, it's for the benefit of everybody when girls are receiving an education, including men and boys, it helps men and boys as well when we have more women educated and empowered.

also contribute to the family. It reduces the burden that is expected from the boys, and that everybody is contributing to the family and everybody can look after each other

as well. We have also seen that when like more women are educated and there are open conversations about you know, the role of men and like challenging gender stereotypes, that can help us have better you know, feminist men or like men who appreciate women's rights and they're like, so, you know, we need we need better sons, we need better brothers, we need better husbands and fathers as well. So you know, I think working for girl's education is sort of a way in which we can have more

productive and helpful conversations and see this cultural shift. And at the same time, like when we talk about investing in guls education and talk about policy change that also directly benefits boys education, it's never about like invest in girls schools only it's about invest in every school, but let's come up with gender inclusive policy, so we are addressing the problems that specifically cause girls to drop out or that can help us and show that a girl

makes it to the next year in her school can also help us. You know, when it's generally inclusive, it can also address the problems that boys are also facing.

it should be held accountable for that. And at the same time, we need to sort of change change and challenge the culture around it as well. So you know, using storytelling, TV shows and stuff like that can also help us to to change to change these perspectives. But it's it's an it's an issue that is affecting many girls, including in Pakistan, India and other parts of the world.

somebody asks me about peace, I don't think about like, you know, peace at heart or you know, being at peace with yourself. I usually think about world peace, and you know, I just I hope bombings, I hope wars stop. You know, we have to speak out against it. You know what I have experienced personally, and and how I have seen other girls and boys being targeted at school, and and you know how they have lost their loved ones,

how they themselves have been injured. I met Palestinian refugees in Egypt just a few weeks ago, and I just saw, like you know, they were injured, they had lost a sibling, They were separated from their family members. It is just heartbreaking how absence of peace is taking away the right to life from from so many people. They cannot live a normal life that we all, you know, most of

us are are our privileged to have. So when I am at moments when i I'm just like looking outside the window and I and I see a normal life, I'm like, Okay, you know there are normal cars, and people are walking around, and and people are chatting and laughing, and there's no bombing, no firing. Buildings are not destroyed. I just feel grateful, but I wish that for everybody. I think it has to stop. These are all human made things. They're not

happening itself. These are human made. We have to really question ourselves about the hatred that is created, these hateful ideologies that are created, how people are being dehumanized, Like the dehumanization of people is a very big problem. That's where it begins, and that's what worries me the most when I think about, like, you know, what's happening to women and gults in Afghanistan. They're being considered as second class humans. When we think about these different wars that

are happening or what's happening in Gaza. It's you know, it's like the dehumanization. So you know, I hope that people see each other as equal. We see you know, our we see ourselves in in in other people, and we you know, stand up to this. You know, these arms and these like violent tools that are being spread in the world because it's it's it's a big problem. So I wish for real world peace and then that would give me peace and I would feel more at peace with my with myself.

So I don't want you to lose hope, and I want you to know that you could be the change maker. You could shift things and you could drive change.

I mean, I you know, I do see the significance of creating laws on the one hand, because you know, what's happening in Afghanistan is beyond just gender discrimination, and if we look at the current laws in the international system, it cannot recognize the scale of the oppression that is

happening there. So that's exactly why Afghan women activists are advocating for it to be recognized as a gender apartheid in the Crime against Humanity Treaty, which basically means is that like countries should not just be allowed to look away or normalize relationships with the Taliban, or just simply condemn it and just feel like, Okay, you know, we

have done our job. That countries should be obliged to respond and countries should be held accountable to respond, and they cannot be allowed to normalize relationships with oppressive regimes like the Taliban. So I think, you know better laws are really important. We just need more protection for guls' rights. And right now it is a crime for girls to

be learning in Afghanistan. Let's process that they're punished if they disobey this rule, because the Taliban are abusing their power and they're punishing women, putting them in prisons if they disobey any of their absurd rules and restrictions that they have imposed. But on the other hand, if we look at our international law system, it is not recognizing

what the Taliban are doing as a crime. I think the ban on education in itself should be recognized as an international crime and the Taliban should be held accountable for that. So I do believe that there is a huge significance in creating laws that can protect the right to education for girls and that can protect the rights of women and vulnerable communities. At the same time, I also think it's about you know, how we change as people and how we do things differently, and how we

challenge ourselves. You know, we don't need we don't necessarily need laws to be acting differently. Like you know, the most powerful thing is free will, and we all have the free will to be better, to be doing the right thing. We don't necessarily need laws. So sometimes I just also think about us doing better and just being more responsible, standing up for what is right, standing against injustices, and sharing solidarity with those who are oppressed and who need our support.

to me. So I laugh through many things. I laugh about many things, and so you know, you will learn a lot about this book, but you will also be uh, you know, you know, laughing with me or you know, you yeah.