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Podcast, Jay Sheety Jay Shetty Nay shet Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for reconnecting every day every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. One of my favorite things to do is to sit down with people and understand their mindsets, understand how they became who they are, and understand what they go through in order to create the work they do today's guest is someone that I'm excited to connect with to understand
more about his mindset, his approach, and his upbringing. The guest is Lil nars X or Montero, a twenty four year old award winning rapper singer songwriter from Atlanta, Georgia. Dubbed an internationally recognized phenomenon by Billboard, Little naz X rose to fame in twenty nineteen when he released Old Town Road and Shattered jenre Norms, disrupted the charts and
went viral worldwide. The song's remix with Billy Ray Cyrus became the longest running number one single in Billboard Hot one hundred history, and his recordized with numerous awards, including two Grammys. After a highly successful EP and several multi platinum songs, Nas went on to release his critically acclaimed and Grammy nominated debut album, Montero in September twenty twenty one, which featured the culture shifting six times platinum hit Montero
Call Me by Your Name. Following the release of his following the release of Lil narz K's latest single, Jay Christ, his beautiful new documentary Lil nars X Long Live Montero debuted this weekend on HBO and is available to stream now on Max. Please welcome to On Purpose Montero, Lil naz X, thank you so much for being here.
I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to talk about stuff.
I'm happy to talk about stuff too, And I wanted to start off with I know that you love time travel. Yeah, yeah, I heard you were obsessed with time travel, and when I heard that, I was like, that sounds like something I'd love to hear more about. Where does that obsession come from?
Where they come from?
I love the idea that you can go and change anything in the past or go to the future, like to see what's going on. I guess it's it's like a form of escapism that I just really enjoy, you know, and I like to explore it in my art a lot.
Yeah, where have you explored changing things in the past? Like what what would be fascinating for you to visit in the past.
You know, when I was younger, I always thought like that's something I would want to do. But as I grow older, I don't think I want to change anything in the past. I guess I want to go to the future and maybe ask myself, like what do I do now? I mean, I guess that's kind of like where I'm at in my life right now. It's like what did you do to get to where you are? So I know I'm in that place, but I'm not there right now?
Yeah. Yeah, Where did the fascination come from? Where did it originate from? Like?
Where did it originate from?
I say, the Back to the Future to movie, not the first Love but the second one, and a lot of Family Guy episodes from Brian and Stewie, like go to the Past.
Yeah. One of the things you said in the documentary was you said that Lil nas X helped you understand more about Montero, And you know, the documentary is called Long Lived Montero. I wanted to understand from you who is Montero and who's Little nas X.
I think Montero was at first like this very shy, super insecure kid and you know, had big dreams. But I guess I was just very afraid of like even being like himself and me becoming little nas X. It was almost a persona, you know, and he could kind of just do whatever he wants and he can do anything, and he can move on to the next thing and not really be pigeon held to like anything, you know, and he helped Montero.
Morph into that person. If that makes sense.
Yeah, it does make sense. And with Little nas X, even if not by name, was that a character and energy that you harnessed when you were young? Was that a feeling you had when you were young or was it something that evolved through time.
I think it's something that evolved through time, like through music. I think my enthusiasm or just like my hunger to grow musically like pushes me to do things in my personal life that I would not do. And it's like not even just my personal life anymore, because it's like public now, and I know if I'm not able to do those things, I can't continue to be Little nas X, or at least that's how it works in my head.
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people can relate to that. I think we all have the little kid inside of us that's insecure and anxious and doesn't know how people are going to react. And I think we all feel like we wish we had an alter ego or a version of ourselves that was stronger and bolder and more caregeus what kind of qualities does little nas X have that you love in the door?
I feel like Lil nas X knows how to navigate any situation. He knows how to find his way out of things that may seem like very like dark and daunting, and he helps Montero do that. And I feel like that's one of the reason why I call it Long Live Montero, because I still hope that innocent little boy inside of me like remains, you know, because I think you need that balance of you know, that courageous and you can do whatever, and still like scared, like fearful, but excited, you know.
Yeah. So it's not like you're trying to remove the fear. You just you actually want to protect that innocence.
I want to protect that innocence, and I don't. I think it's less like removing the fear and more so being able to do things.
Even when they're fearful.
And it's like I'm showing the younger me that exists within me, like you can do this, you can do this, we can do this. It's going to be scary, but but let's.
Go for it and see what happens.
So there was this quote in the documentary where you said my mind is hardwired since I was a kid, that if you f up one time, you have to quit the whole thing. And my question is, when have you felt that you've done that in life or have you ever felt that kind of fear and then pushed through? Because Little nas X came.
Through, you know, after the success of like Old Town Road and whatnot, I had like this dark like period of like, oh God, like what do I do? And I put out like my song Holiday like before, like right before Montero came out, and it just wasn't living up to what I had hoped for, and like I was in a hotel room and I was just like telling myself, like how much like I hate myself, you know, just like how did you let this? How did you
mess this up? And how did you get here? And like it's nothing we can do now, Like there's no reason for us to be here. And I guess that's like the childish like brat inside of me that it's not comfortable working from the ground up, you know, And in my introduction to the music industry, was already at the top, you know, like it's a hard thing to live from.
In a sense, you know what I mean.
Absolutely. Yeah, So that's the hardest thing to follow up with one of the most successful drops of all time. Yeah, how did you process that?
I knew I was going to do it, I didn't know how. I didn't know how I was going to continue. But what it took was me bringing out another side of myself, which was like Montero called me by her name, and with that though, I had to let go of this. It's like child like innocence, like the public hat with me.
I guess yeah, I want to dive into your childhood at you. I was going to ask you, like, what would you believe would be your favorite memory growing up? Like if you were to close your eyes right now and think about Atlanta, Georgia, what's the vision or the visual that comes to mind or your heart that resonates and connects with love.
I went immediately to this one, but I don't even know if it's mine. But it's like me in front of my like Grandma's house, and I'm just like running around the tree like I don't.
Know, that's beautiful.
I feel like that's one of my first memories, you know. Yeah, And it's just like bliss, where was.
That like, where was the house? What did it look like? What do you say?
It was actually an apartment and it was it was in bank Head Courts, Atlanta. It was like basically the hood, you know what I mean. But at that time, you know, everything felt all right.
So yeah, and how old are you in this memory of this?
I feel like I was maybe like five. It was right before the tree got cut down too. Yeah, kind of symbolic in a way.
In what way, I don't know.
I guess.
Life increasingly became more like real things started to happen within like you know, my family life, and also at that time recognizing even at that age, like you know.
My sexuality and whatnot, and I feel like it, you know, became like.
A rocky like ship from that moment.
Is that when you started to become more aware of your sexuality? Was that an age that it started to become?
Yeah, I mean, because that was the age I started to become like aware of myself. And it was also like becoming aware of the world around me, you know, and it's like, oh, this thing that's really bad that nobody seemed to lie. I happened to be that thing. But maybe, you know, maybe it's not that bad. But also you know, God's like probably super mad at me, and I don't got to think I'm like being disrespectful anythink.
And it's like, you know what I mean, all those things that I feel like I shouldn't be thinking about it like.
Six, Definitely, that's a lot that's heavy to be thinking about at six. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot, I think for anyone to be processing at six years old, it's a lot of things to be questioning. I mean, you in that memory you talked about your grandmother, and I know that you're when your great grandmother passed. That was the first person that was close to you that you lost, and that was when you leaned into music. How old
were you when that happened? Considering that memory you have that, you just visualize how old were you when that happened? And how did that make you lean into music?
You know?
I actually that actually happened when I was maybe eighteen sow But at that time my dad had already had cussy. Because I used to live with my grandmother from like when I was like like five until like eleven, and I was just like the golden child. I was like spoiled and like I got so much love, and I was like, you know, I was the baby of the family.
So once my dad got cussy of us, you know, he played like much more like hardball kind of vibes, and I didn't see my grandmother as much, but she was still like number one person in my heart when I like thought about like love, and you know, around sixteen or so, like I was told she had cancer and it was it was like it was like this thing that I was like, oh, it can't be true, and I kind of just like try to forget like it exists.
I'm like, well, she's still alive, Like you know, maybe that was just like denial.
Yeah, I think it was like a lot of now, even like when I was around her, like you know, noticing that she was like getting skinnier and like like looking different, and she would like say things like, you know, I like, Grandma, I love you, and she like, you know, like I don't love myself and stuff like that, and it was just it was really hard to like hear and listen to this person that you have so much love for.
Like lose like faith in life and just like the world in general.
And it's like it's also the person that has took on a role of being the back of the family for so many people, like you know, the person, you know, the grandmother, Like she has like the family reunion, she has everybody over for thanksgiven. She watches the kids like that's like a big thing in the black community and whatnot. And and now like you know, she, I guess, like feel cheated by life.
And you know, I guess I.
Could feel that through the way she would carry herself at that time. And so it was really hard once she passed, and it was something I tried to like brush over.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I actually lost my uncle when I was around her your age at that time, and he was he also was diagnosed with throat cancer. And I was really close to my uncle. He was He taught me how to drive, He helped me get my first job. He used to own like a news shop and you know, sell newspapers and stuff. So he would like let me work out and work in the shop
and make a little pocket money. And then when he died, it was really interesting for me because I was getting more into spirituality at the time and he was really angry that I was getting into spirituality, and so he was so mad at me, and like, you know, when he was really really unwell, he'd be like, I hope you're not going to get spiritual, and I hope that's not going to be your path. And so he was
kind of losing that positive spark. He was always like this positive energy and then towards the end of his life he was more angry than anything else. And it was, Yeah, it was an interesting experience going, you know, going from someone that again loved me so much, helped me so much, someone that I was very close to to then feeling like he actually didn't like who I was becoming. How did you feel your grandmother's love evolved for you?
Sorry? Sorry about that?
Oh no, thank you you. You inspired me to be vulnerable and share it back with you, because yeah, I guess we both lost someone that we cared about a similar time. But yeah, how did your grandmother's love evolve for you from that five to eleven age when you were living with a Like, how do you how do you think she loved you that stayed with you?
I guess that's like afterwards five oh, like during the time both you know, my grandmother's like one of those things that that she really loved when you know, life I guess wasn't like great like where we lived and you know, our like financial situation and just like you know, the what comes with you know, getting older in life.
You know, I got, I got all the love.
I got all the love, and you know, sadly my siblings got the other end of that stake, I guess. And you know, around the time my I got custody of us, I didn't feel like that special child anymore, which is probably good.
For my young ego, you know, like feeling like I had to be like that one all the time.
And I guess I kind of stop seeing my grandmother as much. I'd go over there like a lot of the weekends and whatnot, but you know, it was just like the thing.
That I can't be there anymore.
And then eventually, like she passed away, and it was just like just very confusing.
Do you remember the first song that you made after her pausing or anything that any music that came from that.
I made a song called like carry On, and it was pretty much about how I like felt like very selfish about not being there when she passed away, when I was supposed to be there that day, you know, but I was so stuck on social media, you know
what I mean. And I was so like really like into Twitter and trying to you know, build that even though I know my grandmother's like on her last days, and it was just like I just felt like very selfish because it was, you know, like this person that showed you so much love, shown you so much love, and you're not there because you're like.
Trying to get these people's attention online. Yeah.
I think a lot of people can relate to that too. You get so obsessed with your career or a direction or a path and it's working and it's winning, and there's momentum, and we all kind of you know, and you were young when that happened for you, But a lot of people into their thirties, forties, fifties will you know, attest to that and put their hand up and say, you know they've done that where they've over prioritized their career to their relationships. How's that shifted how you've lived
since then? Like that reflection or realization that you've had.
I'll be honest, I'll say I was still kind of like that way up until these last like maybe two years of I guess my break from like music or whatnot.
I've started to really actually like cherished.
Like being with my family and stuff, because it's like these people are growing up so fast like that, like that my nieces and nephews and you know, you see that on TV and you feel like it's like cliche and whatnot, but it happens like so fast, and I feel like the older I get, the faster these years like somehow go by.
And yeah, yeah, pretty.
Much, that's a wise realization to have a twenty four I'll tell you that, Like, that's that's early. I think most people that I speak to again, like you're saying, we hear the cliche, we see it, but I say most people don't get to that realization until they're like thirty forty, maybe even later on in life. You know, it's it's a weird one because you kind of feel like you'll be the exception. Yeah, right, Like everyone feels like they'll be the exception. Maybe their life will go slower,
they'll have time for everything. There was another line in the documentary that really read with me. There were so many things that I can't wait for. Everyone wants the documentary, honestly, because as someone who knew your music was aware of you. I felt like I got really invited into your stream of consciousness during it, and I so appreciated. I found your thinking out loud to be extremely comforting, even though we've never met each other and we don't know each other.
And there were so many things that you said where I was like, oh, I can relate to that in some way. And this was another one. You said a lot of the times when I'm scared, it's when I'm about to do something that will change my life drastically. And I was going to ask you what scares you the most right now or what do you feel fearful about right now that you think might be on the verge of changing your life drastically.
I think, just like my place right now in my actual career, in like these last couple of weeks, you know, I've never been here like mentally and actually like physically, you know where you've like been so like focused and like zoned in on what you're doing, and you push your art out into the world and it's kind of like received negatively by like the majority, you know what I mean, But then like also understanding why you know and having.
To like see it through.
So I guess that's that's where I'm at right now and my next move, you know, the things that I'm planning on right now. I feel like somewhere in here there's going to be this magical moment that I can't even take credit for it. Yeah, I feel like that's that's going to squeep. I feel like that always happens.
So, yeah, there's always magic in the messiness. Yeah, but it's not fun, No, not at all.
It's been a lot. Yeah.
No, we'll get to that as well. There's another line that kind of sparked where you just said, Now you said you talk about one thing a little bit of chaos, Like there's a part of you that likes a little bit of chaos. And I was going to ask you, what does positive chaos look like to Montero and what does negative chaos look like?
I think the thing is it's usually when I can control it, I've lost I don't.
I don't think I have the.
Grip on controlling it. I feel like it does a lot of what it wants. Now, you know, I'm usually like strategic with things, and I can kind of like move the conversation.
But that's the chaos.
I like, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's kind of like a kid that starts a fire and it's into under control.
Yeah, and a forest fire.
I'm just like, oh, this is not it's what's supposed to This is not my chaos. But yeah, I like to keep things interesting or whatnot, and yeah, lead the conversation around it.
But yeah, yeah, I think what I think all of us love that we I love and I appreciate the honesty, Like I think we all love chaos that's under control and that we can can control, drama that we can control. But then as soon as it and it's funny because it always starts like that, right, Like even a forest fire starts because there was a little controllable fire, but then it spread really really fast. Yeah, And that feeling of things leaving your grip is like the most uncomfortable
feeling in the world. When you feel something just like, it's the worst. It's the worst feeling ever. Yeah, when you feel that way, when you've created something and then it takes a life of its own, you've experienced it positively and challengingly. How do you process that or how do you allow yourself to be okay with creating something controlled, and then it becomes fully chaotic and out of it it.
Can get almost like depressing, but you know, actually depressing, and it can you can become like super angry with yourself. As I said like earlier whatnot, and yeah, I mean it gets that deep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you said recently and as you brought up the last two weeks, you said, you said you felt like you really messed up this time. And I was like, you know, and you were saying that it affected your mental health, right, like it really felt like it affected your mental health. And I'm like, why did you feel that way? And in what way does it affect your mental health?
I already kind of like explained the situation, you know, in that video, but it was it was this thing that artistically, it was just supposed to be like I'm returning, like I'm back, I'm back like him, you know what I mean, And it turned into this whole thing where it was me trying to dunk on Christians or something and that was never like what it was never And then and then then I looked at the video with me like eating like the communion or whatnot, and I
was like, Okay, this looks really bad on paper. This thing that I thought was just like a little jokey, fun video. I also had to think about, like how many of my family members are like ch like my grandmothers and stuff and you know, like aunties and things like that.
I'm like, wow, like do they see this? Is that too? If they do, like you know, that's that's really messed up. And you know, it made me sad.
And then you know, on top of that, like seeing like actual fans like turn and say like, well, why is he doing this? Why does he keep messing with these people? And I think another thing was messages got turned around because one got turned around the idea of Montero called me by his name, which is me like taking ownership of this place. Everybody tells me I'm going to go, and that was just turned into oh, he's teaching Christianity a lesson, when that's not the case, you know.
And now this thing was like, oh, I'm Jesus, I'm back like Jesus, which is if anything it's it's it's like a homage to Jesus. Like this guy that made the greatest comeback of all time. And I'm not the first artist to do such a thing. That message like turned around and I didn't know, I didn't know how to do anything with it.
It wasn't my chaos anymore.
It was the world's and anything anybody said was true because that's who I am as a person. I'm this troll and I want to make these people mad, and so everybody can run with that, and there's nothing I can do about that. I can say as many things as I want, but knowing my history, they look right, I look wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah, Well, I think the way you addressed it, and you're addressing it right now is helpful and useful to people because I think it came across very clearly to me, and it does today too, even sitting with you, Like, it's not something you're trying to disrespect or mark. But for people to feel that way, what would you say to them? Like, for someone who feels that that is what it is, how would you do to them?
Yeah?
What would you want them to hear? It's probably a better question.
You know, what's you know, what's crazy?
I feel like I've said, you know, I've apologize for the communiting on that note. Everything else I'm not sorry about. I don't I don't think I did anything wrong, you know what I mean. And it's like I've also been making like a lot of like gospel music, like to to like God and like like my spiritual side, and I hate that this whole thing is turned into like a mockery, which it isn't you know.
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. And I think there's also like I was gonna actually maybe maybe that's a good thing to talk about it, Like obviously your father's gospel singer, right, Yeah, Well, I would love for you to talk about your relationship with your father to give kind of context to the conversation we're having right now, because I'm not sure how many people
are aware of your deep Christian roots. So walk us through some of your relationship with your father and how that's evolved, which comes across in the documentary.
For sure, I feel like me and my father have grown closer as I got older, because the version of me that he saw wasn't really me. It was the version that I presented to him. So as i've like come out and whatnot, like even before I came out though my dad, well, when I did initially came out to when I initially came out to my dad, he was just like, you know, the devil maybe tempting me
or whatnot. And it's definitely taking its own journey because now, like my dad, it's like, yo, do you have a boyfriend kind of vibe, like you could tell me about that stuff, like you can let me know that, you know.
He even came to me.
He even came with me to like a gay club with like my brothers and sisters one time, just like dancing and stuff. It's it's been a complete, like one I.
Feel like because from going from you know, coming out to your parents and your father saying yeah, you know the I mean that is a really extreme obviously reaction on one end, and now coming with you to a gay club, like, how does that transition even a how does that transition happen? B How does that feel?
I feel like it was an overtime thing. And also him like learning me as a person, Like I feel like him seeing me in interviews and stuff like that was like the same for everybody else, Like every I feel like the entire world started to see me. My brothers and sisters, my family, everybody started.
To see me at the same time.
You know what, I mean, I feel like before that, I was just very like meek about everything. So over time, you know, with call Me by Your Name coming out and like the entire like Montero album like Rollout and me inviting him and like listening to my songs on my last album, that's how he learned about me. And I feel like him hearing me from my own mouth and like in the world and seeing me in the world like.
Help him understand me more.
And I feel like over time he was like, Okay, I understand now, you know what I mean.
It feels like you've also always had this compassion for people who don't always understand you, Like even when you say when you when you when you first told your father and he had that reaction of maybe the devil's tempting you, you actually understood that, Like there was a
part of you that went, oh, I get that. And then there's other parts in the documentary true when you have protesters outside and again you're like, I'm actually happy that they have something that they belong to and they stamp for Like there's a there's a compassion in context that you seem to have even when you're the one who's trying to express yourself. You can see how it's hard for people to digest that. Would that be fair to say for sure?
I mean the truth is I feel like, over like the last couple of years, I've learned that everybody is against you.
Was just like against you.
You know, there's a lot of like learn things, you know, a lot of things over time people have latched onto and in their brains it's hard to.
Like go of.
So they see you as this way because of something that was, you know, far beyond their control of things they've been taught to, they've like grew up, you know, like my dad has been taught and like shoved in his head, you know, and everybody in the world, like we all have like ideals like put into our brains.
And I don't want to like try to be a thing where it's easy to paint people who don't like.
You as like haters or just like evil and like biggot and whatnot. But it's like these people just genuinely don't understand you, and inside of their mind, like it's it's like fear, you know, it's like fear, and it's it's like discomfort, and there's all these things that the human mind wants to run from, you know, and I understand that because I still have those things.
Yeah, we all see things in others that we don't understand. And as soon as we don't understand something, the most human emotion is to feel fear. Any sort of change makes us feel fear, any sort of uncertainty. So if someone we look at someone and we've uncertain about them, it generally sparks fear. That's how we've almost been conditioned as humans to just feel fear. And so as you've said before, you said, some people see me as the
satanic devil that is going to ruin the world. Like when you say things like that, what are you actually trying to do when people see you that way? Like what I'm interested in is when people see you that way, what are you actually trying to portray that sometimes gets seen that way.
It's more so taking all these things that I believe have been used to like demonize me and a lot of other people, and these conspiracies, and it says, Okay, this is what this looks like.
Is this what you actually want to see? You know what I mean?
Is this who you think I am? Okay, I'm going to do those things want to do those things. You think, I'm like this someonet to do these things.
When you're building a new album, building a new song, making a music video, what's your artistic process? Like where does it start? Like like what happens? Is it you're taking notes? Is it journaling? Is it working with your team, your dancers? Like how does how does new work get created? In Montero's world?
Can we pass for Yeah?
Of course we can, of course again Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm with you. You want, of course? Of course you again, Yeah, absolutely, of course you can. Of course you take your time.
M h.
What would you like to say? Where is it? Where is your heart?
Well?
First I'll say what I say out there. I'm trying to be authentic and say, you know, words from my heart, but you know, I feel like it ends up sounding rehearsed, and I guess, yeah, I'm trying to get there. But yeah, I'm doing my best. But we can move from We can move from.
This, yeah yeah yeah. And and all you could ever be asked for is doing your best. Can't ask for anything more. And I think we're all in that, We're kind of all in that pressure of trying to be authentic selves. But then you know, there's that there's that famous meme on social media that I see all the time that says, society says, be yourself, and then society says, no, not like that. Yeah, and I think you know, we all kind of spend a.
Month, so that's authentic, that's true.
Yeah, your society doesn't really want like people to be like themselves and stuff like that, just like to a degree.
Yeah, yeah, we want everyone to be authentic in a way that makes us feel good.
The truth is, if everyone was authentic, oh boy, this world would be insane.
What would it be like?
It would have some great things, but definitely like some terrible things too.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it's probably better that everyone's a little It's an interesting Authenticity is an interesting conversation.
I think it depends on what you see is better like positive and light does that automatically equals like better like because it's I feel like some dark things help bring light, you know, balance.
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's almost like I feel like even internally when you're doing.
The work, shadow work and stuff like that, Yeah, you have to go through a lot of darkness. You know, you gotta understand like what you are capable of and and like who you are and decide not to do you like like.
That that bad that you could do?
You know? Yeah, do you do a lot of in the work? Is that kind of I know, you became spiritual and you got involved in a bit of your own spirituality. What does that look like exploring your own spirituality? What does that look like? In your definition? In your words?
Yeah, I do a lot of like in a work and understanding like who I am, and but also like the and like trying to let go of the pressures of I guess what I feel like. Society a lot of times will want me to be, you know, like this big, brave like champion for the community, which you know I can't be at all times, you know what I mean. I just want to do me sometimes of course, like I want to do what I can, but I wanted to come naturally.
And is there a lot of pressure sometimes it feels like to always have to be I was joking about it with someone else the other day, like whenever I'm around someone, I always feel the pressure that I have to say something wise because because that's the kind of you know, and so like when I'm around something, it's kind of like being around a comedian and you they have to be funny.
Yeah, like, yeah, I think it's exactly that. I think it's exactly that.
Even like with the funny things sometimes you know, because I'm an online control and stuff like I don't want to be funny right now.
I want to I want to I don't know, I.
Want to eat this food and and you know, not really talk to you.
Want to scroll on my phone a little bit and eat this food.
But the whole thing, like even with like Montero still like riding on my back, like we're talking about it right now and be like featuring the video and stuff, and it's like that's just what I want to do.
It wasn't.
I'm not always trying to like make a deep message. I guess, like I guess, yeah, if that makes sense.
Yeah, So sometimes you're just trying to have fun.
Not even just trying to have fun. It's just a lot of things I do.
Most things through my art are for me and just thankfully other people can see it is helping them.
It's coming as a form of self healing and self expression, and then if it connects with people.
They like I pray it connects with you.
Yes, but.
I don't know. I'm not I'm not trying to be a martyr if that makes sense.
Yeah. I mean Rick Rubin was here a few months ago and he was saying something similar. He was saying that he thinks that true art and true creativity is not made for consumption.
Yeah, in that.
It is consumed and it is loved and it is connected with, but it wasn't created, thinking well, how we going to find the thing that connects? It's creating something that comes from within. Would you agree with that? Does that you agree completely? I like Rick Rubin?
Yeah, yeah, I like his book only skim only like skim through it, but I like it.
Yeah, it's a great But did you when do you feel your connected to your most authentic three sixties self? Like? What do you do when you feel that way? Because I know in the documentary it seems like when you're with your dances who all to your friends. That felt like a form of self expression and connectedness where you feel like you can let go and be funny and be larger than life and be creative. Would you say that's where it comes through?
I'd say, if anything, it's when I'm creating music and I guess that's like the thing that an artist should say or whatnot. But it's the truth. When I'm like making a song and when I can completely like let go of how it's going to be received, I just feel like one, you know, I feel like everything has come to me. All my energy is not like all out into the world like every like I feel like just one being like connected to everything. It's a feeling
like I can't describe. Like no amount of success will ever like equate to it. I don't know if I'll ever like find love that's strong. I hope so.
But but yeah, that's the I think that's the thing we're looking for, right that we're all searching for, like and and it's almost like you can't manufacture it, like you can't engineer it. Either happens or it doesn't.
Fake it.
Yeah, yeah, you feel it sometimes and sometimes you don't.
Yeah.
Yeah, you said you wanted to stay the acceptable gay person at first, and you didn't want to be the one that shoves it down everyone's throats. And then now we're talking about again being authentic. I think we're all always trying to we're always trying to play again to what people around us wanting to be and then and then it comes out, how did you kind of go, well, no, no, no, I'm not going to do that. I am gonna allow myself to free myself.
I feel like it's a push and pull, you know, because of course there's still parts of me that, you know, want to please the people around me, you know. I mean, I feel like that's the whole idea of like something being successful. A lot of the times, we got to make sure it's packaged enough to be authentic but also able to be like digestible at the same time.
I almost feel like that's what we're all trying to exist. You said something that resonated with me that I was going to read something from f Scott Fitzgerald, and so he has this beautiful quote that I'm fully obsessed with right now. And when I look at you as an individual, this is and you can reflect on whether you how you feel about it. So he said that the test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time
and still retain the ability to function. In his words, one should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless, yet be determined to make them otherwise. But the way I'm reflecting on you is this idea of like, you want to be doing things that are for the self, but then at the same time it needs to connect to people, Like you want to be able to be who you are with your friends and your family, and you realize that sometimes you got to tone down parts
of yourself, but then sometimes you don't want to. Right, We're constantly trying to All of us are trying to be two things almost, Yeah, for sure. Why is it so hard?
Then?
I don't know, And I feel like that goes back into the whole thing of like we are like not in control completely of things like no matter what you do, how much preparation or whatnot, it's not something you control, like people going to love stuff or they won't.
Absolutely you said about love there, you mentioned how does finding love play a role in your life when you know.
I always this year is the first year since twenty twenty one that I'm going to be open to like finding love because I was kind of very closed off to it. It's like no, no, no, I need to focus.
I have I.
Have really really big dreams and I don't want to share with everybody. Yeah, I have really really big dreams, and it's like I feel like anything that I can can see as a distraction can get in my way. But at the same time, like that whole contradicting thing, love can help inspire you to make life even greater art But but you know, I wanted to just have my like phase of.
Being young and having fun with people, if you know what I mean.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean yeah, but don't you think again, it's it's interesting, right, Like it is daunting, I agree with you, and yet I find that most people, of course, everyone's have a good time. I'm like that too, Like I love laughing, I love having a great time. And at the same time, again talking about the paradox or the contradiction, I also want to have meaningful connections because the last thing I want to do is have a superficial,
artificial conversation with someone. So it's like this, It's funny how the things we find daunting are often things that
even that person's kind of yearning for. Like I don't think anyone's ever had a really deeply meaningful conversation and then walked away from it, and that was a waste of time, right, you know, me you're never gonna say that, like, you're never gonna you know, Like, I had a dinner with someone in life recently, and there was a group of us in a similar industry and everyone was being vulnerable and we were laughing and connecting, but everyone's sharing
their pains and we walked away and no one was walking away going, God, that was the worst dinner. Everyone's gonna, Yeah, everyone's gonna. That's one of the best dinners we've ever had. And I find that with artists it's hard to have that. I guess, like it's hard to find that, And so do you do you feel like the dance is a way you find out like is that a place of safety and a place of joy?
I feelt that's definitely a place of joy.
Yeah.
And I don't get super serious with them or barely like anyone for that matter, you know me, Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, I feel like I shared most of my therapy sessions at home alone with myself and my cats in the distance. But yeah, like talking out loud to myself when all the voices in my head are saying like the most crazy, terrible things you would ever hear person say, it's useful it's helpful.
How ridiculous can the voice inside your head get like what?
How far ridiculous?
Asn't like you know the time that I told you about, like the hotel incident. Like it's easy when you're like down or in like a in like a hard place for all those voices in your head to.
Like gang up. It's like, okay, this is the time.
It's like everybody go, go go, and talking out loud can be that saving phrase of a factor, like no, this isn't that bad, this thing isn't that terrible.
We're going to get out of this thing.
We've been through worse, we will go through worse, So we got to make sure we get out of this thing so we can know about the worst, you know what I mean?
So yeah, like that that helps a lot.
That's a great technique. Yeah, I fully agree. I think the when you're lost in your head and in the silence, oh my gosh, you have no idea which voice to follow, which voice to let lead.
It's the worst when you like, oh, this terrible voice has a point, you know. It's like this and this one's saying something maybe I should listen. Yeah, it's like no, he's not like, that's a terrible idea.
Have you ever used that technique where you label certain voices that you see is recurring and you give them a name, And in a way, because they say that that's a great technique of you're in a critic like giving it a name, giving it a personality. You have you noticed certain ones that keep coming back.
I don't give them a name per se, But as I said, like, I'm a spiritual being and I feel like just like me, like I have my thoughts, my wants and my purpose. That voice in my head was you know, created by the universe. It has a job, and I think its job is to give me just enough to fight against you know what I mean. Yeah, So it's like I don't hate this voice. It's like you're part of me.
We're one.
We're together, We're in this together. You're doing your thing. I'm trying to do my thing, you know, but I can't listen. I can't listen to you on this.
That's powerful, that the ability to not Yeah, the more we right, there's that famous saying that says the more you resist, it persists, like it just keeps persistent if you keep kind of butting heads against it, And what you're saying is actually I don't hate it. I just I recognize its part. I see, I know that's that's your thing. That's literally why you're here. I can't be
mad at you for fulfilling your purpose. Like, yeah, yeah, you is that you do have that quality, like that ability to recognize that everything has its place and everyone has their place. Where does that come from?
There?
Compassionate like parts of me trying to make sense of everything. I feel like it's so easy to label everything is as like a as like a demon or just like a like a terrible just like dark thing. But it's like this thing, it's it exists, It has emotions and it has feelings just like you, and it's just trying to do his thing.
Yeah, there's this one statement that reminds me of what you're saying now. You said, people feel a lot of things about me, But boy do I love this kid and the duck. How is how is that journey of I love this little montera, this kid inside of me? How is that developed?
Like?
What is that taken for you to get to a place of being able to say that, like, I love this kid? Because I think that's a journey we're all.
On, I think, and it's like something everybody knows, but we forget a lot. But we're literally just all like the same person and like a different life path, you know what I mean. And once I can really just understand and recognize that every single person has like these thoughts or a form of like these thoughts that I have in my head, I know I shouldn't like feel bad about where I am or what I think, and you know what I'm doing, because that's what this version
of me is doing. Like that's that's where I am, and I have to love him through it and like understand that he's going to make these, you know, mistakes, and he's going to have accomplishments, and he's going to have great times. He's going to have bad times, and he's going to do amazing things, and he's going to do terrible things.
And it's like I have to allow him to grow.
Through that and me joining the world or anybody else and being hard on this kid is not going to help.
Yeah, I was just saying the other day, I was saying to someone, you can't guilt yourself into growth. It's impossible, Like you can't shame yourself or embarrass yourself into becoming better that When was the last time you made someone feel guilty and they were like, yeah, I'm going to be the best person in the world now, Like it doesn't work that way.
Yeah, I think cliches it is, like, you know, love is really the answer for that.
How does it feel? I know you're going to go today or tomorrow to show your family the documentary, Like how does that make you feel to be for them to be able to see this?
I think you want to be very like self conscious you know the whole time, Like yeah, just like oh.
My god, Like what are they thinking about this?
You know, I've said there's this documentary that they've never heard me. Wow, like say you know, or my perspective on like a lot of different things and even them, you know, talking about them and how I feel close or not close with them.
Yeah, it's a lot although it comes, Yeah, it comes across. I'm hoping in a way that they can digest it. There's a lot of love you have for your nephew. Yeah, and your relationship of him not wanting to see you differently, how is how is that relationship like progressed? And because how old is he he's young.
He's eleven, he's about to be twelve this year.
I feel like, you know, he's one of the only people in my family that calls me like twenty four to seven. And I just really like appreciate that because you know, before they get to like their age where they're just like.
Too cool and whatnot.
I'm happy to have like that person that's still I don't know, is inspired by me or still like loves me, like all the same.
And yeah, yeah throughout everything, what.
Would he say to you when he's calling you up? Like what's that? What is he doing? What's a twelve year old? You know?
Kids?
Like he will call and kind of just like say you know, what's up and then just beal like silent for a minute, and then it was like, yeah, I've been on Fortnite and like stuff, like just like kids stuff. And I love that it makes things much smaller because in my head where I have all these things and I feel like are the big, grandest like problems of my life and blah blah blah. You know, he's he's like in school, like trying to get his grade up in science, you know what I mean.
It's like these things. Yeah. It keeps me, It keeps me like down to earth.
Yeah. Yeah. It's like when my mom calls me up and I've been doing you know whatever crazy thing and then she's like, have you eaten today? That's what? Yeah, She's like you had your lunch? Like have you taken your vitamins? Like that's what say to it? And I'm like, Mom, like I'm at the White House or whatever it is. She's just like, yeah, it's like it's the best thing though.
Yeah.
It keeps you grounded, keeps you connected, and You're right like, so often we just start getting lost in this you know, this big vision of what we're doing and what we're creating, and it kind of just pops the bubble, like you know, they come along and this.
Yeah, it's that makes it much like smaller and easier to maintain in the way.
Yeah. Yeah, you said something about the family that really resonated. You said, how can we get everyone in a house within five years without me paying for it? And I was like, you know, what does that new level of relationship of desire mean to you?
Like?
What is what are you trying to create there? Or where does that thought come from?
I feel like that opens a bigger like question or like current like problem in my life. I'm like not a little boy anymore. Like I'm a grown man and I have to take on like this this like leadership role. And I feel like once you break society down everything, it's still like tribes and whatnot. And I have tribes, you know, like like on my family, like like this is my tribe, you know, like my team around me
and my career, like this is my tribe. I have to get in the front of this and try to figure things out and like try to understand, like how do these people work best? Like how can I get you, you know, to doing your best thing? And how can I get you to doing your best thing so we can all progress because of course, you know, I got to get myself right first before I do anything. But it's like also I have to understand, like how can
I help you. I'm in this place. I believe the universe sitting me here to try to try to fix things. You know, It's like how do I build your confidence up? Like with my brothers and sisters, Like how do I build your confidence up?
Us?
All these people that grew up in these places where we've been hold over and over in our life, like even each other and our family members and the world that were not like, how do I get you the confidence to chase your own dream or if your dream's not something like grand grand you know, how do I get you to I don't know, be on my team
and just something where you're happy. And it's so hard to get people organized and organized things and realize that this is something I have to do because if I don't do it, it may not get.
Done, you know what I mean.
H Yeah, but yeah, I'm at that place where I'm trying to figure that out.
Yeah, I can understand that it's hard because you've got so many roles on your team. Then there's family, there's friends coming up. I mean, it's hard, and it's hard to put everyone on too. I mean I've spoken to so many people who you know today, like top musicians, artists, actors, who've had that years ago where friends wanted to move from their hometown and come and join the team, and then sometimes they didn't want to put in the world,
and sometimes they did and sometimes they made it. Like I know a friend of mine who's this person used to see people at these shows thirty years ago and today she's directing documentaries with him, right, And it's like a beautiful journey and it's amazing for them to have. But then on the other end, you've also got friends who are given a route out, but then they let the money and the fame and the drugs and alcohol
and everything consume them. And you recognize it's almost like you can only give people opportunities, but they've got to take them for themselves.
Yeah, and that's that's hard to like come to grips with, you know, like you can give us many like speeches or or talks or like as much guidance as you want, but it's just so hard to help some people up.
Yeah, it is, it is. But that's something that feels important to you.
Yeah, something that feels important is also something that you know, it crushes you a little bit, you know, back to that whole like factor of you can't control this thing.
Yeah, you can't. There's nothing you can do about this.
Yeah, I feel like this this is not a question of me and you can solve here at all, because it is almost the question of life. But it's like, how do we how do we deal with a lack of control? Every day? Like, how do we deal with the fact that we can't control things? So how do you deal with the fact that you can't control everything in all of these how have you have you found any coping mechanisms?
I have, oh cool, and I have one main coping mechanism and it's so silly, but it helps me through life a lot. And it's and it's like, dude, you're a gummy bear, and it doesn't make sense.
I love gummy bears. I'm listening, but.
It's like all of this it's in our head.
It's all like a journey and in the grand scheme of things, as this individual, I am just a gummy bear. It's not that serious. It's not that deep key moving. For of course, it's a contradiction because it's everything to me. It means everything to me. It's it's it's my whole being. But it's like, but I'm also a gummy bear, so it doesn't really matter if this thing, you know, it doesn't matter, like, dude, relax, you know.
So it's like a fight between those two.
But that me being a gummy bear is like one of the only things that's going to get me through this really hard thing.
That i'm fighting, fighting or facing you know.
Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. I've never had it put that way, so I like it. I like that. It's silly. It's a yeah, the idea of embracing our own insignificance. It's like, we have our significance. We know what we're doing is important, but at the same time, we're going to embrace the insignificance so irrelevance.
Like yeah, like relax, Like, yeah, it's not that serious. It's super serious, but it's not that serious.
Yeah, that's a funny conversation inside for sure. Yeah. There's another thing that came up where you said that if I settle into a house, I feel like I'll have to be there forever. There's this idea of like, you know, there's a shot in the documentary with all your suitcases there and you're like not sure about the couch, and I was wondering, like, where does the fear of being somewhere forever come from?
I think it's like the whole idea of like becoming comfortable, you know. And of course I do have like couches and stuff. Now I have like a new couch and I have like my cats, which I was very like hesitant to do. But you know, I was very afraid of getting like super comfortable with my like Hollywood life. You know, I have like my house and stuff, and now I'm going to get all my Grammys over here, and I'm going to put my couch right there, and here's my mona least at painting.
Like stuff like that. I was very fearful that once I did that, I'm just going to like relax all the time.
But now I see it definitely, it's like I want to relax sometimes to keep myself seene. And I am going to like put my house together because there's nothing wrong with that. And I have to live because, as I said, like this goes by so fast. I'm twenty four, like going on twenty five, and I feel like like two days ago I was nineteen.
You know.
Yeah, I feel like your home has to be a sanctuary for you, whatever that means for you, like it fiells and fuels you up for the crazy life you live because I'm sure you're going on tour again, you will go on multiple tours across your lifetime. Like the time that you are spending there, you want it to be comfortable you want it to be re energizing. What does that look to you? What does rest look like for you?
Now?
Like what is taking a break look like to you? Because you are someone who's ambitious and hard working and driven. But now to get back up on that.
I think I have one main thing and it's super simple. It's going to see a movie. I like to go and see a movie, like I don't know, some once, maybe twice, sometimes even three times, like a week, and that's like my escape is a moment or like my moment of like rest or away from everything, you know, like during my time, you know, when I dropped the artwork for my last single, and like it was like
a hell escape. I went to see this what we call Migration, which like this animated movie about like birds, like flying places, and it's just like this fun, like childlike movie. And I was there. I was in that movie. That was my rest, that was my piece, that was my since you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. I love going to the movies too. Was that the most recent thing you saw? Was there anything else that kind of it's been the best movie you've seen this year? With the oscars are coming up to I want to.
See like Poor Things, but it was very dark. Yeah, but very dark.
What was yeah? What was it like? I haven't seen it yet.
What was it like?
Yeah?
It was like emm a Stone just giving like an amazing performance. It was also like this movie that was so weird, nothing like what I've seen before, like they like ari astor like vibes, you know what I mean.
Yeah, Yeah, I'm glad you're not giving away.
I really want to I don't want to give away.
I really want to see it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to I love going to movies too. I'm a big big I loved Oppenheim a last Yeah have you seen that yet?
I saw Oppenheimer, but it wasn't for me. It wasn't for me.
I'm a Nolan. I'm a Nolan fan. Christ Nolan found in like every movie he makes. I'm like, I love it. When well Opene might have got more of TenneT was the one that was the hardest one to get than if you ever.
Saw Yeah, but I like it.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, he makes movies. I love his movies because he's always creating things where it's not set up to be consumed like the average movie.
Like you got to go.
Yeah, you gotta look up and go on a form or something and try to understand it.
Yeah, I'm that guy, like looking at every little graphic explaining like the timeframe and everything else that comes with it. Montero, what is it that you know?
What are you?
What are you excited about over the next you know, twelve months for you? What's something that's inspiring pulling you and pushing you forward right now for the next twelve months.
I think the main thing I'm focused on is picking myself up out of this this.
Hole that I like feel there man, you know what I mean, and.
Trying to figure out with songs of the hundreds or whatnot, I've been working on suit me best for going forward?
Yeah, and what does that process look like?
Like?
How do you how do you actually do that in an actionable, practical way?
I guess trying to feel which ones feel real to me and back to the other thing, but are also like consumable you know what I mean?
Yeah, and how do you judge that? Because I guess, like, how do you as an artist even are you just trusting intuition? Is their data? Is their prayer? Like out? Yeah?
What is that intuition plus like I feel like spiritual like signs, Yeah.
Walk me through the spiritual signs. I like that.
For example, in my last song, you know, my last single, Jay Christ Like, I was kind of hesitant, was like, is this is this where I'm going to get me to the next place? And every time I would think about it, I would magically like see across in the distance or something like that. I was like, Okay, this is a part of my journey. This is something, This is a threshold I'll have to cross through to get
to the other side, or for example, another one. And I was worried about, like releasing calling by your Name. I'm just like, oh my god, I don't know if I should. And then good Days by like says it comes on the radio, you know, and I'm just like ah, And then the most beautiful like sun sunrise happens at the exact same time.
It's just like, Okay, this is you know what I mean.
And I guess it's like things that are in everyday life, but I don't mistake that for just being every day life, Like this is meant to be.
This has to happen this way.
When did you start looking for those or noticing those in your life.
I think when I first moved to LA and I felt like communicating, you know, I felt like I was talking to my angels. It wasn't it was like magic, you know what I mean, like like seeing like angel numbers, like I believe in angel numbers alive.
I'll give you a story.
So I'm like, sitting at this cafe is breakfast time old town roll, you know, just hit like number on the charts. I'm already thinking in my head, though I'm moving to La, I'm not going to really like be super you know with my family and whatnot, Like I'm going to do my own thing now.
And I started seeing like this number it was.
And then I looked up what the number meant and it was like you need to, you know, bring your family together. Basically, it was like, you need to spend more time with your family to bring your family together. I was like, I was like, no, I don't. I don't think I'm gonna do that. And I just started seeing that number over and over and over. And I called my I called my my siblings. I was like, I want to have our first like what's it called family reunion?
And I did that thing.
And I started seeing a different number and I looked up what that number meant, and it was just like you're on the right path, like and I kept seeing that number over and over, you know what I mean. So it was something it was something like that.
Yeah. Well yeah, and then that's and that's been nomore a discovery for you as opposed to something you were taught or trained or heard learned. It's been self taught almost.
Yeah.
And it's also like something that felt very real because you know, at that time, like I wasn't spiritual at all, you know, I didn't believe in any of the stuff. And I was just like, okay, yeah, I see. I feel like you guys are there. I don't understand you completely, but.
Yeah, and what are you like when you like can't see the sign or you can't find the answer, is there something that helps you kind of realign or reconnect.
I feel like at that point, I just have to trust what I feel in my heart, you know, And I feel like there's a there's a calm sense when I know.
Something is right. There's like a it's like a washing of Okay, this is good. Yeah. I can't explain it.
Yeah, I get that yeah. I mean that's the beauty of trying to explain in words things that are experienced intangibly. Right. It's it's hard, it's challenging. But I think anyone who's I know a lot of our community and our audience is able to see signs or knows what their signs are and their experiences and what they are. And I officiated a wedding in December and the individual who's getting married or it loves the color blue and sees her
father's presence as a butterfly. And when I was leading the ceremony, there was a moment in the ceremony that I asked everyone to close their eyes and meditate with us. And then we opened our eyes and some of us still had our eyes closed, and a blue butterfly literally just flew right through the garden. There was only one. It wasn't like we were in a butterfly park or
something like that. And I can see that you can sense abi and it was just it was beautiful, Like it was one of those moments where everyone afterwards like, did you see the blue butterfly? Because they know how important it is to the bride, And it was just this magical moment of you know, for her to have her father's presence at her wedding who's no longer with us. Yeah, it was really really special. So yeah, I think those for those who are on that path, who are aware
of those things, I'm sure they'll resonate with what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful, Montero. We end every episode with a final five. These are the fast five. They can only be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. We ask them to every guest, and you've been such a kind, gracious guest with your time, so Montero, these are your final five. Question number one is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
Do it scared?
I like that second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
I don't know about that one.
You block it out? Yeah, I don't have that one. Yeah that's cool. Question number three, what's the first thing you do in the morning and the last thing you do at night.
First thing I do in the morning I get my cats off a bit.
And the last thing I do at night hmm, I try to move my feet in place where my cats won't scratch it in.
Nice.
Question number four what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore.
I guess approval from everyone around me.
I guess yeah, yeah, you're allowing yourself to let that go.
Yeah, all right.
Fifth and final question we asked this every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
You have a different one.
I love that. That's brilliant. I don't have to break my law with you. What advice would you give to your younger self?
Make sure you love yourself enough more.
Than anybody else in this entire world, like ever could?
Yeah, I say that.
It's a long lived Montero. The documentary is out right now, Montero let Nasax. It has been I know. I know for you, however the experience goes, I'd love to hear from you. But honestly, I think the depth, the openness, and I want to thank you for showing up when you didn't have to off your own accord and trusting me and giving me this space and time. So I'm grateful to you and thankful to you for showing up in the way that I did.
Thank you.
I'm hardy to be here and I'm appreciative of you, know how you've helped me through this.
Thank you Cool, Thank you, Matt, thank you so much. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with Megan Trainer on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out. My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for five minutes.
It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C section scarf with all the stretch.
Marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I was like, you know what, her thigh is a cute