Jay Sean: Master This Skill to Unblock Your Potential & Get to the Next Level in Your Creative Process

to help soothe my nervous system. I've actually been working with Calm for a couple of years now, and I'd love for you to check out my series on reducing overwhelm eight short practices Quick Relief. Right now, listeners of On Purpose get forty percent off a subscription to Calm Premium at Calm dot com. Forward slash j that's c LM dot com Forward slash jay for forty percent off. Calm your Mind, Change your Life.

with them, and I get to hang with them. I get to invite you all into a genuine, truthful conversation, a sincere conversation that we probably have had at dinners and when we're hanging out, but then we get to record it and share it with all of you. And today's guest is someone that I was a fan of

ever since I was in my teens. I remember when his first song that I discovered him through dropped and it literally felt like it changed culture for me and my friends, and we knew what we wanted to play, we knew what we wanted to listen to. We were sharing it with all our friends. And to watch his career from Afar rise in the way that it did and the changes that he's made, the moves that he's made, was phenomenal for little Jay aged fourteen and beyond there.

I'm speaking about British Indian singer songwriter Jay Sean, who emerged in the American pop music scene a decade ago with his Billboard Hot one hundred number one single Down the Pop Music Titan changed the game stateside for both Asian and UK acts alike, hitting historical strides and breaking down multiple doors as a solo artist, Jay was the first Asian artist in history to have a Billboard number

one in America. He was also the first Asian and first British artist to have two simultaneous top ten Billboard singles. Jay's also the first British and first Asian artist to have a Spanish language number one in America. Welcome to the show, my good friend and amazing human, Jay Sean.

you've been working with for a long time. I love you, Jeremy. Yeah, And Jeremy introduced you to us, and this was in twenty eighteen, and I loved how genuine you were, how down to earth you were, like it was so easy to chat to you.

dad is a big, big dreamer, big dreamer, bro. And I only found out recently, like when I started going into music and my brother went into film, that these were also my dad's dreams, but they were hidden my dad always you know, my dad used to write poetry and nobody ever knew it, but he ended up being a businessman and a very successful businessman. But seeing my dad's drive and my mom is super hard working as well, we were always inspired by that, like wow, like how

did dad do this? He had three factories they used to manufacture denim. They were like, you know, Top top Man and River Island, all these places they used to make all the jeens and it came from nothing, came from just a vision. So that was them. But then also they put us into a private school. Now private school in England, as you know, it costs a lot of money. Now I could have gone to a school in the area that I lived in, Hounslow, but it wasn't the most affluent area time. It wasn't the best

school system at the time. So my parents wanted to be able to put us into an education system where they felt like we could excel, and so they did. But that was a sacrifice. They didn't get to go on holidays every summer and go to Barbados, and that money they invested into me and my brother, and I think because I saw that sacrifice, we always wanted to work hard, so you know, we knew what they were doing was for us. But the school that we went

to was I think and Latimer Upper School. I'll have to shout them out, because an incredible school because not only did you have to be smart to get in, so you had smart kids, but they weren't like, oh stuffy, I go to Latimer and I don't do anything fun. No, it was creative. They were fun. We had so much of a laugh. And it was an all boys school. And the reason I'm telling you that is we weren't getting dressed up during the day to impress girls. I

wasn't doing my hair to impress girls. So how did you make friends? How did you become the popular one? Everyone was smart, You had to have something. You had to either be the funny guy, you had to be the athletic dude, or you had to be like the captain of the football team. So everybody excelled, but in a competitive way, but like in a nice, friendly, competitive manner. So that has always been my nature to do well and to apply myself to whatever I do. And I

think I've been like that my whole life. That's why I always, you know, I'm always doing different stuff, picking up different projects. Because if this is all we got, bro, you know, why not make the most of it. Do do the things you enjoy and try to try to see how far you can get with them.

all time. And I think there are a lot of people who listen to this, and even if they don't have an Indian upbringing, they may have an upbringing where their parents' expectations mean something absolutely and their parents' expectations are important to them because they love their parents and they see their sacrifice. A lot of people who are listening maybe thinking, my parents work so hard, I look ungrateful if I follow my dreams. What was that like?

I have this dream. I want to be an painter and this, and you're like that's great, I love that, But I also don't want you to struggle for money. I don't. So you don't have to be an Asian parent to want your kids to do well school, job. But the Asian thing, the reason is stereotype, I think personally is because we were immigrants, so therefore you can come with a dream and you can come on a ship from India, come to England to go hmm, I want to be a professional gymnast. They were like, what

shut up, bro, you just left the bend. You've left the village. You need to earn money. So that our grandparents didn't get to have a lofty dream. They just had to work hard. They had to work two jobs, sometimes three jobs to put food on the table. So then therefore that also gets passed down to their kids. But with my particular situation, the medicine wasn't my parents' dream for me, it was actually mine. I was a

super nerd in school, Bro. I loved getting straight eight grades I loved working hard and then seeing the fruits of my labor. So when I used to get those top grades, it made me feel like I'd achieved something. And it wasn't like, oh, Mom and Dad would be happy. I knew they'd be happy as well, but it was like, I'm happy for myself. I worked hard for this, right, So I actually got fascinated with science. I still am completely and utterly fascinated with the human mind and the

human body. So before I did medicine, actually bro I actually not many people know this. I think you might with first person who knows this. I actually did a degree in a combined science degree in psychology and biology.

couldn't give it up. I was writing raps at the age of thirteen because I was watching these rappers from do you remember I don't know if you remember this probably agent show my age Hereyo. MTV raps okay, used to be because in England. Growing up in England, we didn't have access to eight. Of course, we didn't have the Internet back then. We didn't have access to all

of these hip hop shows. So we had this cable show on MTV and it would come on and it was called Loo MTV Raps with Heed Lover and Doctor Dray.

saying you can't do that. There was nothing saying you don't need a degree, bro, Chill, now go get a job. I was like, no, but I'm also want to do this, and I think I've always been like that my whole life. So there, I am studying medicine, but I also want us, for some weird reason, go on stage and rap.

blessed to be able to do music. Literally, if you think about my job, I write songs, then I sing songs, and I go around the world and I travel and I try to make people happy when I'm performing my music. But that doesn't mean I don't have other interests. It doesn't mean that I'm like, for example, I love restaurants and bars. I love them. Anytime I go to a different city, first thing I do, either before or after my show. Where can we go? Where do the locals

go and eat? What's the local cuisine? Here's where where should I go and sample this city so that I can get to say I went to Milan, and I knew what that felt like, So then I was like my dream was always like, I want my own restaurant, I want my own bar. So then I did that.

You know, we set up an Indian restaurant called Namah and a bar called Switch and that was fun because it allowed me to use a different side of my brain space and all of a sudden now making entrepreneurial decisions, which I never really got to do through music because it's a different field. So I like, so, you know, and we have the yoga studio that you know, my wife Tara owns and runs. So all of these things keep life interesting for me and I think that's the thing.

I want to do as much as I can and enjoy it and see where I can take it. But it doesn't mean you try to do everything because you don't want to be a jack of you know, jack of all trade's master at none. It's just what feels me. And so that, you know, I think that the recently that it's been the entrepreneurial stuff.

across England, Indian culture is very accessible. Of course, it's normalized. It's everywhere. Yeah, and then coming to the US, I don't believe when you did that it was like that as far as I know. And what did you feel you were working with? What were you excited about what did you come up against that you were trying to make sense of? Because I think there's a lot of

people even right now. I think everyone in different cultures, different traditions, different trajectories, has to face some form of resistance, some form of stereotypes, some form of opposition. And I've always appreciated your way of navigating these things because I don't think you look at it it's like, oh my god, everyone's against me. I don't think you lived life that way to walk us through. What's what goes through your mind?

and life is just good. You had music was great then, just you know, vibes were there, right and and that's what I was experiencing. I was I was listening to you know, all of that same kind of stuff Usher and and you know and Jagged Edge and Black Street and all that stuff. And I used to think to myself every time we went out and we'd go out clubing with my friends and stuff, it would always be especially in London, as you know, this quite a heavy

Indian demographic. Well I should say just like a you know, an Asian demographic what we call Asian in England they call South Asian here, Yeah, tons of us in all these clubs. We'd go to concerts, I'd go and see Fujis in concert, or I'd go and see you know, DA's effects, I'd go and see Lords of the Underground. All of these people still a bunch of of Asians there.

And at that time I had started writing, and you know, I had a friend of mine who's a DJ, and we used to make these mixtapes, me and my cousin, and we used to make mixtapes just for our own fun. And then our friends would be like, actually, that's pretty sick, like can you make me a copy? Fin mgame a copy making. All of a sudden, it was kind of spreading around school, and then that chubby, nerdy Indian kid you know, became cool. It's all of a sudden in school,

and that felt nice. But that was just in school. It wasn't happening on a major level anywhere. There was no Asian mainstream artist on stage that we could go and watch who would sing or wrap the music that we love. So we would go there, and I'm like, I'd be at an Usher concert. I'm watching him, and I'm watching tons of Asian scream for Usha, and I'm there, I'm in the mosh pit, but I'm going why isn't one of us up there? We clearly love this music. If we can listen to this music and we can

buy this music, why can't we make this music? Why can't we be the one up there on stage. And I think when that click switched for me, that changed everything, because again talking about how I just thought nothing was impossible, I said, well, I'm going to do that. Why can't I? Okay, how do I do that? All right, I'll enter talent competitions. So I did, and I'm simultaneously studying. But then I'll be listening to Choice of M.

get passed on to the next round. I got through. Eventually they chose the top one hundred in the country and then that one hundred was put down to was cut down to the final twenty. Then the final twenty had to perform live in Brixton Academy. Okay, that was my first time on stage ever. And when I looked around, Jay, I'm not lying to you, I was the only only non black, non white person in that room. And I didn't think about it at the time, because you're not going,

You're not looking at that. You just got the mic in your hand and you've got an opportunity. You're going, this is amazing. How did I even get here? This is so fun? It was fun. But now looking back, I was like, I was the only Asian kid and it didn't scare me. And so therefore, you know, I just did what I loved and I did it without fear, and I ended up coming third in the whole competition. And that's what gave me the confidence to know that I can't I think I can take this somewhere.

of all the audience. I think so many people today get in their heads and they're like, well, I can't post that I look stupid, or I can't do that. I'm not good enough. And even people who are really talented stop themselves from putting things out there because they're scared of what their friends say. I remember when I posted my first video, it was the people closest to me that criticized it or riady killed it. It wasn't

It wasn't the audience. The audience actually responded fairly well for day one, but it was the people around me that said, Jay, you talked too fast. Jay, that point didn't make sense. Jay, your editing is not as good as it should be. Like that was coming from people I knew, whereas the comments were like, oh, I love this. I just shared this with a friend, and so I feel so many people have that block. What was it for you that gave you that courage to say, this

is fun. I love that idea of this is fun. I'm doing what I love and I actually don't care. How did you have that then? I didn't care?

That's why we get because we know that I post this, it's going to go out to the world, and then ninety nine point nine percent of the people who react are people I don't know, and I have to take their criticism on board. But we weren't bill to be able to deal with that. We just not designed to be able to deal with that much. So therefore, of course it overwhelms us. Of course it gives us anxiety.

Of course we get depressed because users Z one five ninety nine said this about me, but we don't know that person. So when I was a kid, I just did what I did because I didn't have the opinions of too many people around me. And even if I did, like you said, and that's another great point, often the people who are around you might not have the courage to take a step out of the comfort zone like you did or I did. So therefore they're just like,

oh no, bro, or maybe it's love. Maybe they're just like, I don't want you to be sad if someone says something about you. I don't want you to be hurt if it doesn't work out. I just loved it. That's the only that's the only truth of it all is when I tell you that it was an obsession, jay I was obsessed with hip hop and R and B, but like not just the culture, the technique. Okay, So if I was to really break it down, obsessed with the fast rappers of that time, that's what it was.

I was obsessed with big l I was obsessed with chip food from food food stickens. I was obsessed with jay Z with original flavor and the way that they would rhyme. It was very very fast, and that to me was just so cool at the age of fourteen, How are you rapping that fast? So I would emulate it and I would try to do what they were doing. I was like, damn, how did they do that? So it became like this nerdy obsession. And then when it came to singers, it was vocalist, how are you singing

like that? How are you doing those runs? How are you doing those rifts? So I would study them. I would study boys to men. I would study all these guys and copy their rifts and copy. And that's how I sort of learned how to rap and how to sing by literally just said, my these people who had such a great skill set.

like that were reserved for a few. There were only a finite number of TV channels, find that number of music artists, find that number of actors, all very mysterious and unreachable. Ever knew how they got there. Today we live in the opposite where it's like all your friends are influencers. Everyone has yeah, everyone's doing everyone's doing something interesting.

You know someone in your family or a network who's figured something out, Like people are running businesses, there's entrepreneurs here, there's this, and that, someone has a podcast whatever. So now it's almost the inverse where it's like, now you see it happening so much that now you think it has to work out that way. So that time you just said, I never believe I never even thought about

a record deal. Now, when you start making music, all you think about is a record deal because it does feel within reach or it does feel like someone else did it. And I fully agree with you. When I put out my first video, all I thought was I love sharing this wisdom. I'm tired of just sharing it in small rooms of five people. I think the wisdom should reach more people, and I'm just trying to see if it works. But there wasn't. There wasn't a goal or a strategy or a whole approach. One day it's

gonna be this and we're gonna have this. We're gonna build a media empire like it wasn't like that. It was just I love this, and I actually don't know what else to do with this apart from try and share it.

just like ah, that song work. I went so far down that rod bro of trying to chase big pop hits. I lost myself. I lost. I didn't even even when I was behind the mic singing it. There was no smile on my face because I knew you were writing songs for this climate, and you got this guy talking in your ear. Hm, you need to do a song like this because so and so I had another big Oh, we'll get the producer who did that. Oh, we're right this right with the songwriter who did that. I'm like,

but I don't even like that music. Yeah, but that's all that's working right now. So you got to do it. And there was no love in it. And guess what my fans could tell. They can tell they're not stupid. They know the Saint Jay shaw Man seeing I see what he's doing. It's cool. I love him, so I let him do it. But the Saint Jay, Saint the Jay that we loved, Saint the Jay that we fell in love with. I see what he's doing. There's a

pressure for him to do it. That's cool. We'll stand by him, but we'll wait for him to come back. He'll find his way back, as I always do. But when it's not from a place of love, and it's not from a place of passion, and it's not real, I feel like there's a metadata in that that people can feel. And that's always been the story of my life.

agent made. You'd have to wait for the songs you love to come on to record them on VHS, so you'd record it and then you'd make your own VHS music video so that I'd have Usher you, pddy eminem

like whatever else it is. And you're collecting all these people and then now whenever your mates come over, you put this video in and then you play that, or you're playing Channel You in the background anyway, But it's like I remember when Dance with You came out, and for anyone who doesn't know it, if you if you didn't know Ja before the US world, like go back and see check that video out, because I still think

it's a brit like it lands even today. That's how good that song is you and it's and I can still bump in the car and it's it's awesome. But to me, it was such a moment for the culture because it was actually good music and it was actually cool too. And I think that that's hard to do as well. I think it's really hard when you're like trying to do something fresh. You're new and you're trying to own a sound or create a sound, but to

actually do that is really challenging. So when you're at your best, most creative self, as you were just describing, now, walk us through the more texture of that recipe of life, when you're really landing in that passion, that love, the excitement, as you said, like, walk us through when you're at your peak creativity and it's truly authentic. What does that creative process look like?

I'm not built that way. That's not how I make music. Amazing, hats off to the people who can write hits like that. That's not how I make music. I feel. I feel, and I smile and I jump up and down in the studio when that song is done. And if I'm feeling like that. The one thing the rule I have is after I've written a song, if I am not so excited, regardless of what time it is, it could be four in the morning, I could have had a

twenty hour day. If I'm not excited enough to go behind that mic bro and sing that song right there, that second, it ain't it. If I can say, ah, I'll wait till tomorrow, then that means my fans can go, ah, I'll wait till tomorrow to hear it. You understand, they have options. And the thing is I go off of that excitement. So when dance with you happened. I had met Richie rich who really you know, responsible for just everything from the beginning of the genesis of my career,

our work together. He heard something in me. He knew I wrapped, He knew us I sang. And what I had developed was a style of blending the two. So I would fast rap and sing, but sing it with a melody. So, because the rapper in me was so alive, I didn't approach the beat the way that I would say perhaps if I was just a singer. So I actually wrote it as a rap. So, girl, whatever told you, but thin get of all the possibilycical ways they're going to broach you. And so then i'd write those lyrics down.

But then I put a melody. Girl, whatever told you, but they get all of the puzzle of lilyriical ways they're going to broach you. And it was something that I don't think many people had heard before, but it was my style. And had there been like a suit in the room, like an A and R, he would have gone, hmhmm, you're way too fast. I don't know what you're saying. Slow it down too many words, This doesn't work. Who does this have you seen give me an example of someone who's had success with a song

like this, with a verse like that. That's exactly why you should do it. That's exactly why I did it. It's because it is new, because it was fresh, and because it was it was me, bro It's me, you know. So when that landed on that song, I think a lot the Asian kids in England growing up. If you're growing up in England, you're listening to you know, probably R and B and hip hop, which is very common for us at the time. That was a culture, right,

that was kind of what we were into. And then your mum's watching some Indian drama or some Indian shark movie, so you got Bollywood, so you got like beautiful Hindi melodies going on in the background. And if you're Punjabi like me, you're going to weddgs and they're playing punga Punjabi music and it's upbeat. Those were all of my musical influences. So when I was in that room, it was not foreign or weird or even contrived for Rishie

and I to have. First of all, when Rishie put that Indian flu to me, I wasn't like, oh, that's Indian. I was like, damn, that's sick. That's a sick. Example that sounds amazing over a hip hop, beat, pop, R and B chords. It was something brand new, but it was something. It was all the music that we listened to in one party. It wasn't like control, it wasn't like we're trying to create a new genre. We created a new genre by accident because it was just the

stuff that we were into. So then when we did that, had written that song originally kind of left it there. Rishie was working with Juggide, obviously a Punjabbi artist.

sing and run rap and do his own thing? Now I know that today, Like you know, Drake's gone on to just do after Hitt and all the rest of it, And I think sometimes he gets a hard time where people are like, oh, yeah, he just makes it, and I'm like, well, if you think about it, when he started, he was probably only like real rapper that also did that,

like was able to mix the two. And I've always I've always loved his music, but to me as well, it was that same thing where it's like he was putting together two things that felt natural to him in his own way, Like he could sing really high notes and then put in like a rap verse. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He could do both, Yeah, and it was just exciting. It was to me, it's always been exciting when people are not kind of imprisoned and limited by a box.

And it's what you're saying about even the entrepreneur and the musician in you and allowing yourself, Like I think, I think today we've become so much better at recognizing that people are multi hyphen its like you know that Rihanna can have a music career and be a fashion I got exactly right. You know that an actress can also have an amazing company. You know that exactly. Ryan Reynolds can also sell an alcohol or whatever it may be.

You know, there's there's so many different ways of doing that. He can own a football team exactly the exactly. But in the beginning, it was like, no, you're an actor, Just just be an actor, honored.

So I was so that always confused me because I was like, hold on a second, this is my artistic expression, So surely it should just be why why aren't I just allowed to do who I am? Because otherwise then it's not Jay Sean, it's Jay Sewan with other people in his ear. Then it's not just Drake, it's Drake

with other people in his ear. So I think the reason why people fall in love with an artist is because that person has something unique to share with the world, right, you know, like if you're in a certain mood, you're gonna be like, man, I know, man, I feel like I it's put on some Adele right now or something.

hot heart throb you know that holds those movies. And he said he had to take a two year break from making movies to shift his brand to be able to do movies like The Lincoln Lawyer later on Dallas Bias Club, which he won the award for. And it's like he literally didn't make movies for two years and he was getting paid like fifteen million to do a rom com, right, And he said, for two years he didn't do anything because that was his brand and he wanted to do more serious roles. He wanted to do

roles that he cared about. And it took him saying no for two years. And that's a lot of like, you know it, it's amazing to think that people who've made pivots in their career have had to kind of have these very like interesting transition periods. Yeah, what was it like for what's the biggest difference between the UK and the US music scene? Because I think you have that,

you know, you have that as unique experence. There's a few of you, right, there's you, and then like more recently obviously that people like Ed Sheeran Adele like, there's there's few people who've been able to be successful in both.

right or from specifically Toronto. So right. But at the time, so when we're in that's why when we were in London, London is a small island, and so what happens is sometimes you can get I refer to it a small island syndrome. You can walk around your little place and feel like the big shot.

see if I can win them over. And that has always been something that's very dear to me, even when it comes to shows. Any show, like you could do a corporate gig right and they have it, and it's like people be like, oh, they're waiting for the show. I'll be okay, cool, what's the demographic? This is x y zed. I don't then think okay, I'm just gonna sing x y Z song. I go, well, how can I connect with them? What am I going to be able to on what level? And then win them over

so that then they can go you know what. I didn't actually know Jayshaun before or even like his music, but I like the dude. I like the guy. I connected with him and he was fun on stage and he was funny and he was an endearing and then he actually rocked the crowd and now all of a sudden, you want him over.

that's only a bonus. Now that can only be even better. But I'm excited. I'm a bit gassed up right I'm there.

And it was through that one guy, that immigration officer who looked me dead in the eye and said, so what, I haven't heard of you? And I thought, all right, let's do this. Let's work. Let's work.

That's what I've discovered, Like the the idea of thinking you're at the top of the mountain or that you're doing things it's the same thing as you said earlier, like when you're making music from love, passion and excitement.

I feel like if you're doing something because of revenge, because of proving someone wrong, because of I'll show you because I'll see you at the top, Like when you do things with that energy, even if and when you make it, it never fulfills you because that person may not have the reaction you want them to have their place, that person would still be like, yeah, don't listen to me,

I don't like your music. Or when you go up to that guy and go, oh wait, did you hear me now I'm number one Billboard and they go, yeah, my girlfriend didn't like it exactly, but yeah, it still doesn't It won't feel you, bro.

That means I have had experiences after experience after experience after experience after experience, some amazing, some horrible, some that can make you feel like you're on top of the world, and some that can pull you into a dark place and you don't even want to talk to anyone depressed. So where's that safe place? Where's the place where you're

just okay? Man, I'm alright with this. I'm in this industry and it can either make me or break me, or it can do neither, or I can just have a great time while I'm here, make people happy that I love, take care of my family, earn a good living. And it all comes down to exactly what you just said, Why are you doing this? If I was for the rest of my career only driven to write songs and perform and record to beat the big monster that is down. If that was my only incentive, gotta beat down, gotta

be down, I've gotta top that. I am setting myself up for failure, A and definitely a ton of anxiety, a ton of like bad feelings and feelings that just aren't on a vibe at all, because I'm doing it all for the wrong reasons. If if I then go, if I switch my mentality and go, Man, how lucky were you? How blessed were you to be able to have written that beautiful unicorn of a song that makes so many people happy, That really did break a lot of records and change your life. Gave you a life, man,

gave you a life. Put that in your back pocket. Yeah, and be grateful and say thank you. That was wicked, That was amazing. Now let's go on and write stuff that you enjoy, that you love, that perhaps your fans might connect to. But if I was to make the metric of my happiness chart positions, comments, likes, followers, I'm setting myself up failure because I can't control any of those things at all. The only thing I can control

is the music that I write. The music that I record, the music I put into this world, the way I interact with people when I'm on stage and make them feel those are the things I can control. And so therefore my happiness hopefully will be in a safe place, you know, because I'm not pinning it, I'm not rooting it in something that is so out of my control.

try and like mathematically figure out the equation. You may kind of have some hits, you may not have some hits, but you have this and either way, whether you've had it or whether you haven't, you become unfulfilled. And that's what happens so externally, even if this person is having all the number ones, they're still feeling internally fulfilled because it doesn't link back to that pure artistry that they started started doing and then they try to go back there.

Everyone goes back that everyone wants to go back there. Some people take thirty years, some people do it in three years. I've met people at both ends of the spectrum who they made stuff they hated for thirty years. Some people gave up after three years and said, you know what, I'm going back to doing what I love right, And it's normal, Like it's normal for everyone to have

that so so true. It's so wonderful to hear you talk about it in that way, because I think that we had Rick Rubin here a few months ago and he was saying the same thing.

you're not gonna cast me? Fine, and he bet on himself with Rocky, but he didn't win immediately in Rocky. But what that story tells me is, here's a grit. Here's a guy, a bum, just a dude that no one pays attention to. But he's still a human being. He symbolizes your average Joe, your average Joe who the world ain't really looking at. They don't really stop to notice him. But he has a secret dream. He has a little dream inside of him, you know what I mean.

And then when he gets that opportunity, he goes for it because he's gotten a nothing to lose. But b he's all hot, he's all hot, and he's doing it from a place of love. He doesn't necessarily need that belt. He just loves a the game. And B, I can't believe I got this opportunity. Man, I'm gonna take this I'm gonna take it with both my hands. I'm not gonna let go. But then the Rocky saga, the storyline continues,

the rise and then the fall. And that's why he's to me he's such a great writer, is because I think he was simultaneously writing about what was going on in his life, from nobody to becoming the biggest stuy in Hollywood to then maybe getting caught up in the game, losing your roots. Oh now I'm not even speaking the same way. I don't walk the same way, talk the same way, I don't write the same way. Because now I'm a star, people are looking at me expecting different things.

And my career was like that when I started off. I just wrote from the heart. Man. I wrote it because Jay, Rishie Rich and Juggie Deer coming through on a song. Who says that, why are you calling your own names out on a song? Most songs are just like, hey, girls, so you from the last time. It's an imaginary story about something now that you. Yeah, this guy thinks it's okay on his first ever song to Goya, of the song, it's not the intro part.

they the same person? Because the guy who's keeping it real was the rapper. He was the guy who was like, yo, you sold out. You're writing these fictional songs about hey, baby girl, this, baby girl that, and on the song me against myself, it's literally the rapper versus the singer.

And the other part of this whole thing was it was me against everyone else in the music industry because at the time when I started, I didn't really know it, know it, and you know, but now we look back, I was really out there by myself as the only Asian kid in a sea of and we're talking like a bit of the mainstream artists now.

know song I wrote called good Enough. So what I would do is I would instead of screaming about it on interviews and ranting on about it and complaining about how difficult it is trying to break through and not having the same opportunities as other artists. I used to disguise my songs my love songs. I used to write open letters to the music industry and disguise them as

love songs. So there's a song on my first album on Me Against Myself called good Enough, And in the lyrics, you think he's talking about a girl who's not the same race as her, so like he's dating a girl from a different race. But it's actually a letter, open letter to the music industry, and it says it says, I've got my mother's skin, I've got my father's eyes. That's something that I can't deny, and that's nothing that

I want to hide. And even though my roots come from the other side, they told me that they won't mind, because I heard that love is blind. And then it says, how do I change a million minds in this lifetime? What is it I have to do if I erase my history? What defines me? If I had to change my truth, would I be good enough for you? And really it was about me talking to the music industry, yeah, saying like, I'm just like you. Why are you giving

me a harder time? Man, listen to my music, tell me if it fits in where it should fit in. So but when all that stuff started to happen, I went in a bit of a It was hard for me. I went into like a little bit of a dark place because I was like the Saint, this is meant to be fun, this is meant to be my dream, and now like I'm not getting the same opportunities. And

I didn't know what to do about that. You know, when my first album, when they tried to take me onto the second album at Virgin, I realized that these people don't understand me, they don't understand my vision, my art. I'm gonna go step out. So any money that I had earned off that first album and touring, I invested in myself, like Sylvester Stallone, and that's where I did my Own Way album. Of course why it's called My

Own Way. On that album, I remember leaving Virgin and at the time being told, don't worry, you're gonna get another record deal. You know you've got all the success, You've got these chart hits. Of course you're gonna get signed. Immediately, I was like, yeah, okay, good, I'll get signed to a label that understands me. Then happen didn't happened, And now I'm like, well, I had like four years in

the game, that's it. Maybe I should have stayed with virgin who who else gets a major record deal and then walks away from And then I had to talk to my parents tell them the situation. I've just given up a chance at being a doctor. I've had one album out toward the World a little bit. Didn't really smash it, though, did I Like for the Indians around the world, yes, I smashed it. Of course, they were like the first guy, our guy, but in terms of mainstream they were kind of like, oh yeah, that guy

had a couple of songs. So I remember being lost, really lost, and I pretended actually to my parents that I was off to the studio working on a new album. And there were times where I would get my car and I was drive around park up somewhere and literally sit down in my car and go and cry and your own on my own and just cry because I was so lost and so scared. Here's a guy who had all the big dreams in the world or the

guy who worked so hard at school two degrees. I had to just really just sit there and think about there has to be a reason. There has to be a reason that this gift was given to me, that this blessing was given to me to be able to try to fly the flag for us. What do I do? It can't just end it amazingly as the universe would

have it. About two weeks later, there was this event where I was in doing like a meet and greet and this kid comes up to me and he's about sixteen seventeen at the time, hands me a CD and he goes, hey, man, I'm such a big fan I make music. Please listen to it if you can. My contact details are on there. So yeah, cool man. Now look when this happens, as you know, like sometimes we're like you're bro cool, but sometimes you get one hundred CDs you don't get to listen to them all. On

the way home, put it in the car. Listening to it, I'm like like this beat is insane. And I was like, holy, I'm calling this guy straight away. I picked him up, picked up the phone and I was like, where do you live? Where's your studio. He's like jashon. I was like yeah, He's like, bro, come on. I was like, no, I'm coming over now to your studio. And he had a studio in his garden in Slough. He had a studio in his garden shed in Slough and this is a fan of mine. And I said we're gonna work.

He's like, dude, come on. I was like, I'm serious. And it was just me and him, and on that day I wrote write it with this kid who had just given me a demo CD. He had a dream, He had a lofty dream. He didn't know that. I was also in a place in my life where I needed I needed something. He needed something and I needed something. We both wanted to win. And that song was just sent bro, and it changed everything. That song obviously, as you know.

And it gave this kid a life. It gave him an entire career one song. And then fast forward twelve years later, it goes and gives another guy a life, some random dude in Lithuania who's just like done a remix and put it on YouTube, and then it goes on TikTok. This guy is now touring the world, do you know what I mean? So, like, you know, it did pretty good for me during the pandemic. Yeah, a little nice little pocket change for me too, And it was like, you know, it's special. So there you go.

There was my rocky story. Right, yeah, boom down here in the dumps. Back up now, right, it's out Jase Seawan. Version two's out, shaved head, right, the spikes are on the shaved head, and all of a sudden, man, I got another shot at it.

on the other side. The best part about that story, though, is the randomness and allowing the randomness, because I think so often as you become more successful, you become more closed, and you become more are You're just a little kid. What do you have? And that ego. We've talked about ego a few times in this conversation. It just shows me again and again and again the thing that gets in all of our ways is our ego. Ego stops you from being creative because you're scared of what your

friends will think. That's ego. Ego stops you when you start thinking you're the man getting into America. And if you would have acted in that way back at that guy, but you were like, no, no, no, I'm going to get better. I need more. I need to get more people to know my work. And then ego again could have stopped you from going. He's a little kid. What is he Noo, I'm jas schwan like he's just everyone gives me CDs.

It's so interesting just how we have to work against our ego constantly, and me against myself in and of itself, is actually us against our ego on a daily basis. That's the real battle. The real battle is us against our ego. It really is.

And self awareness is obviously something that you of course talk about a lot, and some people go their whole life, man, not being self aware, Okay, their whole life, I think very Fortunately for myself, I got it quite early on once I started this career, I kind of understood again just like standing out as the only brown dude, I

was very self aware. I understood also understanding that when I came across those problems and those obstacles, I realized very quickly that my sense of humor was able to get me out of them rather than letting it destroy me. So rather than letting me go when someone says something dumb or something stupid or insensitive or culturally inappropriate. Instead of getting mad and causing an argument, I would use wit and intelligence to be able to get myself out

of it. Now I realized what kind of person I was in this industry that I'm in, and this industry you know, as you know, it can be very, very fake. It can be very it's hard to find connections with certain people. But if you know who you are in that space, I think you're going that just you'll be okay through the highs and through the lows, do you know what I mean?

right source. Like sometimes yes, you know, right, Like we always think, oh yeah, that business person will tell me the right thing, or that individual and it's like, well, no, there could be some random person in your family or your friends group who says one thing to you that actually shoots you off in an amazing direction. There was I'm going to give a shout. Me and Jeremy had a call like this recently. So Jeremy said to me, he goes to me. He said to me, I just

called I called him randomly. I was on a and I hadn't caught up with them for a while, so I'll call up Jeremy and we start having this phone call. And I had no agenda, there was no plan. It was just catching up with the mate. And he said to me random because Jay, I can't wait till you start a school. And I was like, dude, what are you talking about? Very Jeremy, Yeah, yeah, And I was like, first of all, Jeremy, I don't have kids, so I

don't even know what school feels like for kids. Second of all, I feel really unqualified to start a school. I think it's actually very There needs to be a lot of research, There needs to be a lot of understanding, like dealing with kids' mind should be dealt with extremely delicately and thoughtfully. I don't think everyone should start schools. Thirdly, like sure, it's a nice idea, but like it's so like I wouldn't. I've never even thought of that as

even a concept in my life. But I answered all of that, and then immediately something came to my mind. I'd love to go and study the best schools on the planet. And I was like, I would love to actually go and understand not because I want to start a school, but because I would love to understand the human mind and what we're messing up that's creating kids who cause issues in the world versus kids that get

it right. Now. There's lots of studies and research, but I would actually love to go and sit with parents and teachers. And I came back to my team the next day I was like, guys, I have to go and do this, and we have to document it and we have to get because not because I think there's content and I don't even know what I do with it. I just know that I would be fascinated if over the next five years I could understand more deeply how to build more compassionate children. Not because I want to

start a school, not because I think I should. Random conversation. It's random conversation that my mate just said, I could be like, what does Jeremy know I've got a content, you know, I've got stuff going on. You know, he's nice. He thinks he wants me to start a school, but

like that's it. But really it sparked, like genuinely, I can't tell you how much that idea is, Like you are captivated because I'm like, yeah, you know, I'd love to know how we build compassionate, empowered, confident children who change the world. I would love to understand that on a very deep, intimate and personal level. And so I started researching, like where are the best schools in the world, and like what are the schools that make the most

creative kids? What are the school that make the most of this kids. So I'm like, I've got to go to the school in Spain. I've got to go to this girl. And I was like, amazing, travel now feels alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like I've got to jump on a plane to do tod It's like.

If I've already done this much, I have been lucky enough, blessed enough to have twenty years in the music industry, What am I going to do for the rest of my life? What's going to light me up? And I'm just gonna retire. I'm just gonna sit there lovely. I got my kids with my family and my wife. That's lovely. It's beautiful. But I'm not like that. I need something to fire me up. Yeah, do you know what I mean?

Which is like I said, why I did this thing, all of these different companies that I've created, But the biggest thing now that really lights me up, Jay, is seeing what's happening with this new generation of Asian artists.

back in three years. I'm gonna just work really hard on this in this day and age that we're in with our attention spans, ain't no, I'm waiting three years, which is why he could turn one out a year. But that's Drake. But people don't want to wait around. So I used to just said, I said, forget album. That model is old. It's an old notion. I'll just keep giving you music. I'll just keep putting it up.

It's on my Spotify, it's some Apple music. And I did that consistently for years, and through doing that, I sort of like, you know, just spend a lot of time on these streaming platforms. I started discovering all this music, which to me was reminiscent of what me and Rishi and JUGI were doing twenty years ago. So all of a sudden you had these kids from India singing in Punjubbi but they're singing over like a drill beat and there's like an English vocal on there from some random artists.

And I was like, this fusion stuff is happening again, except this time it's happening with these twenty year old kids who are living in India, who have basically grown up with access to the Internet from the moment there born. They got this device. So yeah, of course they're listened to Bollyword and then listen to all this stuff, but they're also listening to Travis Scott and they're listening to you know, and then Rihanna whatever it is. So that was us twenty years ago, and I, when I tell you,

something happened inside me. It just started bubbling. I was like, I need to get in front of these kids. I need to soak up their energy. It's that youthful energy, that excitement because they're not jaded. They're not they haven't even stepped into the industry yet. They're just kids having fun. That's who I was twenty years ago, and it lit me up and I said to Jeremy, and of course it was the best news you ever heard. I was like, Jeremy,

that's it decided. Man. He was like, you're what an album? I was like, yep, and we're going to India. That's why we're doing it. He's like, great, never been to India. I was like, Oh, this is going to be fun for you, bro.

higher you get again, less randomness I means you spend time with the same people. You're not spending time with the person who's at the grassroots, who's got their finger on the pulse. And all of a sudden again you're disconnected. Yeah, you're disconnected, Yeah, completely disconnected.

if you're an actor, it's brilliant. You just get to play older roles. Yeah, and sometimes they've become even better because they've been active for so many years and.

No one wants to see a fifty year old dancing around, right, And it's a very weird thing. If again, if I didn't have a sense of humor about that, I could be like, who are you to tell me when to stop working? Who are you to tell me I'm too old to be on that stage? Who are you to tell me that I have not done anything great since that song or this song? But I do understand, I

do understand. It's kind of awkward and cringe worthy. At some point if you see some people who aren't self aware enough to understand that, Bro, maybe you shouldn't be dancing right now, go and sit on a stool. Make the song acoustic, and let's just get that audience.

I don't dance. Yeah, but that's the thing. And it's like if Eminem picks up a mike ever, I will be there. I will just sit and watch. I mean, I mean watching Beckham in his documentary Take three Kicks and Happily words, David Beckham play football any day of the week because there's there's a feeling there that you'll never get because nostalgia is built that way. Nostalgia will never change. Like if you had a positive experience watching Rocky.

I can still watch Rocky because me and my dad used to watch Rocky together, so it will never Rocky will never ever be old or boring for me because you know, I've watched Rocky a million times, Bro, every word of all of them, even Rocky five, even though they say it's a bad one. I still love Rocky love it right.

a beautiful thing. But it's really funny. You reminded me of something when he said about the Rocky thing, right, and you were saying again just to go back to that. The other day when I was watching a document his documentary, and I'm not not going to spoil anything for you. There's some of the scenes are in his house in LA. You've probably been to his house.

that's what we do. Now. He could take that in one of two ways, couldn't he. He could either go shut up, I've done like a hundred films what he keep going back to Rocky? Or he could go, yo, I get it because I love Rocky too, and Rocky for me changed my life. And I know you guys love Rocky totally. And he took Rocky his baby that

changed his whole life. And instead of rejecting it and going you remind me of the fact that maybe I've never topped you, instead of doing that, He's like, come here, I'll put a massive statue of myself as Rocky in my swimming pool in my house, and I will have all the Rocky memorabilia all around my house and I

will embrace you and I will be grateful for you. Yeah, and that I really love that because I think the problem as artists is that sometimes we want to when we do a show, right, people are waiting.

into me. I'm not turning it into Hey, guys, I know that you loads of songs that you guys want to hear, but I'm actually gonna spend the next forty five minutes singing my brand new album not doing it. They don't care because they don't know it. The show's for them.

tell you after it. Right. So it comes on stage and we're waiting for this song, right, waiting and he's he's the he's the first act before the main stage. But it's still an artist that I love, and I'm waiting for the song. The beat comes on and we're all there and yes, like me and Radi and our friends that we went, we're really excited. And then ten seconds into the track they cut the beat and he goes, you think I'm going to do that? Here he goes,

you think I'm going to give you that alsong? He goes in Oh, thirty years of songs to give you, and then he goes plays all these songs that we didn't recognize and he actually did that, and it was like, I was like, you just took away my moment, Bro. I wanted you to do that song. Not because I'm limiting you, not because I think you have no other hits. You actually a really talented but that song is so special and iconic. Yeah, that I need to hear it.

like so many things. But in my heart, I'm the same person. I'm a very different Externally, my life has different things. Of course I've changed. People change to me, they've changed, but I embraced that experience. It's a massive part of me. But I found that whether you embrace or reject, people always have an issue with it because it doesn't make sense to them if it doesn't fit

into their version of how they perceive you. It's complicated, and I think for me, I've I've learned to accept that I need to give myself permission to be who I am today, to be who I was ten years ago and who I will be ten years from now, and I promise you it won't be the same. And I need to give myself permission to allow that. And I think we when you see, like you said, when you see silves and give himself permission, I was. We

had Arnold Schwarzninger on the podcast. He's the same. He has he has the original Terminator outfit in his place, he has alien, he has everything, and he loves it like he really loves it. And I love him for it because I'm like, yeah, bro, you to you of course you should. You crushed it and you're not trying. He's not trying to be determinator anymore. He's not trying to be But he loves it. He loves was doing

we want. My social media manager asked him a question on the way out, and they said, do you have any last words? And you're like, I'll be bad, you know, like, oh, he loves it, and I love it, and I love it and.

think we have. Yeah, we have been. I could genuinely talk to you guys, and I love this and I think we've What I love about this conversation, genuine is I feel like we've drawn like you pulled out Rocky, and I think because we have that, we we've drawn this really nice arc and narrative for people. And I hope everyone who's listening and watching this I really hope that you find your own rocky journey, like genuinely in your own way as you've seen mirrored in your life

that you've shared so wonderfully today. But Jay, we end every episode with a final five or the Fast five. Jay Sean Dizzi your Fast five. The first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

that big record deal anymore. Although I do have a record company that I've started for South Asian Talent that that's my way of giving back.