Gabrielle Bernstein: The Simple 4-Step Method to Heal Anxiety, Stop Overthinking, and Stop People-Pleasing for Good

Gabby has written multiple New York Times best selling books, including The Universe Has Your Back. Her latest book, though Self Help, brings internal family systems therapy into everyday life. If you have no idea what that is, I promise you it is going to change your life. Stick around for this episode because Gabby is a lead reading voice on wellness stages around the world and continues to inspire millions through her talks, courses, and online community. Please welcome

my dear friend, Gabby Bernstein. Gabby it's so great to have you back. I love that we were just talking about how the first time we met was literally nine years ago to a couple of weeks from now, and I remember I had just launched this brand new show at Half Post called Follow the Reader. You were at the top of our booking list. You said yes, and I must have interviewed you in my second week at

the job, yep, and we became instant friends. You became such a dear mentor someone that I turned to for advice. And I'm so grateful to you because from day one, when I literally had nothing to offer you, you were supportive, kind, helpful. You're the real deal. And I love saying that about people because it's very rare. So thank you and thank you for being here.

that's what this book has done. I think that's what you sharing of IFS has done. Please for all of us who may not be familiar with it. What is Internal family systems therapy, How does it work, and what's the goal?

we really want. Oftentimes we want to just shut those parts of ourselves down right, Oh I hate that part of myself, or I don't want to be there again, or how did I end up in that situation again? It's about befriending those parts of ourselves and healing and accessing this relationship to these parts rather than making them

bad or wrong, but starting to get into relationship with these aspects of ourselves, because really, Jay, they're just little children inside you.

all had them. Maybe you were bullied on the playground, or maybe you had extreme trauma like an abuse or a parent that was alcoholic, no matter what that moment in time was as a child, or multiple moments in time, those experiences of feeling terror or unlovable or inadequate, not good enough, those were such extreme feelings that we would do whatever it took to protect against them. Just like

you said, I never want to feel that again. So what we did was you start to build up protection mechanisms. And those protection mechanisms could be like controlling, or they could be people pleasing or perfectionism, or in my case, control was a big one age or then addiction. And these protection mechanisms become these aspects of ourselves that really

run the show. They're called protector parts, and so in IFS, the whole intention is to start to get to know these protector parts, soften to them, recognize them, and these protection mechanisms that we've been living with for as long as we can remember, to recognize them as young little children inside who need the care of our inner self, of our higher self. And that's what in IFS is called self, which is why the book is called self help. And I mean go on and on about the inner

workings of self help, which we'll do today. But really my intention with this book, Jay, was to democratize and demystify and simplify this extraordinary therapy that my friend, doctor Richard Schwartz created, and I went on to be trained in the model, and after doing the therapy for a decade for myself with my own therapist and then getting trained in it, it was very clear to me that

I was going to do what I do, which is translate and simplify, and that's what this is. This is a self help practice based on the principles of IFS.

the thing that she wanted me to do. And it's actually really hard for me to do at the time, because she was wanting me to start to tap into these aspects of myself and start to get to know, get into relationship with the addict or the anxiety, or the extreme patterns of rage or the controller, which were all protection mechanisms that had been blocking me from remembering that trauma. And I remember it was about twenty twenty.

I was at home, as we all were, and I'm watching this YouTube video with this man, doctor Richard Schwartz. I just stumbled upon it, and I'm watching this video and I'm like, this guy's talking about this therapy he created. And as I'm hearing him talk about it, I'm realizing that's the thing I've been doing for all these years with my therapist. And it was so exciting to me.

And it was just around the time that I was starting my own podcast, so I reached out to him and he was one of the third people I had on the show because it was just my mission to uncover as much as I could about this therapy that was really healing me. And then Dick really encouraged me to go on and get the training, and so as one of the last people to be able to do the facilitator training, that isn't a therapist, it isn't a

licensed therapist. So it was definitely divinely time. And I think when you get trained in something and you know this, when you do the training and you undergo what it would mean to be a facilitator of that work, it starts to get into your system in a way that it benefits you even more. I think we borrow the

benefits as teachers. We start to experience the work in a different way, becomes so integrated, and that accelerated my experience of IFS, which then made me realize, you know, I can't just expect that everyone's going to be able to get to this therapy because they won't be able to afford it, or there's not enough therapists out there, or they won't even know that it's there. So I've got to make it easy and accessible for people to use.

And particularly right now, people need resources and they need

tools to access on the fly, and we need an inner sense of safety inside.

who you are, and they're protection mechanisms. And so having this experience of being the witness without any judgment of these aspects of yourself that may actually be aspects of yourself that you've really judged and really hated for a

long time. But being that non judgmental witness of these parts of yourself and recognizing how long has that part been around every time you're going to say as long as I can remember, since I was a kid, since I was five, and then asking yourself, Okay, well, what is that part really trying to do here? It's trying

to protect you. And so that's the first step is to recognize that the aspects of ourselves that cause the most drama and most chaos in our life or the most oftentimes hated aspects are actually the parts of us that are working so hard to protect us. And you know, I've been sober now twenty years, twenty years right now, and I can look back at the cocaine addict part at twenty five years old and just look at her with so much love and so much compassion and just

say thank you for working so hard to keep down these impermissible feelings that I was not ready to face.

coming out. And she's a really unburdened part. Now that part is doing okay, But for a long time it was like I could be the greatest person, but if you messed with me, it's just like this defensiveness was going to just come out in such an extreme way,

and even parts of ourselves that might be praised. For example, for years, I was just sort of a workaholic, and people would be like, wow, Gabby, you write a book a year and you're doing so much, and you'd be praised for these aspects of yourself, But meanwhile it was

destroying me. And you've known me through that time. You've seen me through those sort of destructive eras of my life where I was just pounding and grinding, I was running, I was protecting against deep feelings that I wasn't ready to face. And so these aspects might not necessarily be perceived as bad, but they're causing and creating chaos nonetheless. And the thing that's really important for me about this

work is that it's very spiritual work. And as you know, all my work up to this point has been really grounded in spiritual beliefs and faith and my own faith and my own truth around my spiritual practic this. But what's gorgeous about this is it's really marrying therapeutic processes with a spiritual experience. And I can get to that that's what self is.

So you've had anyone watching has had experience. Anyone listening or watching has had experiences of self, those moments when you're just in complete flow, when you're playing pickleball with Lewis, when you're cooking with Roddy, when you're you're you're in self right now, you looked me in the eye before this at this show started, you asked me one of the most beautiful questions. I almost started crying before we began.

That's your self energy, it's calm, it's courageous, it's curious, it's connected, it's clear, creative, I think I said, and confident is these sea quality, compassionate and it's almost an oftentimes very childlike wonder. It's just just. And the reason actually, I think that you're such an excellent interviewer is because you interview with a lot of self, the curiosity, the connection, clarity, you know, that's also what comes through. That's what people

feel even healed in the presence of self, and so that self energy all of us have, but we blocked it. We've blocked it with all these protectors. But the good news is it never left us.

How do people bring themselves to actually do this, to unlock their self when it just feels like it's so far blocked and it's so far removed, and we feel so far away from feeling that creative, compassionate, powerful self that we all have and that we will are well.

a very critical time. If we don't have a faith of our own understanding, or a therapeutic or a spiritual or self help practice of our own understanding, or a tool of accessing some kind of interconnection to inner wisdom, inspiration, intuition in our guidance. If we don't have that right now, we're going to be like a fish out of water. We're going to be flailing around. We're going to feel

really unstable, really uncertain, really anxious, and really scared. And I think that's most people right now, anyone watching or listening you to this interview, is on the track of wanting more. So they've already begun the first step. They would not be following you if they weren't interested in seeking their ability to self soothe, to self correct, to feel a sense of safety inside. So they're already ninety

percent of the way there because they're listening. But the practice that I've created, that I've outlined here is taking this big body of work that does oftentimes feel like a lot to go into therapy every single week, to sit down, to open up to some of those deepest, most vulnerable parts of ourselves. And so this is really a way to scratch the surface and to do it safely because I'm not going to those exiled parts and not going to that little traumatized child. We're going to

the day to day mechanism.

to do something I'm gonna regret. So you step away, or you typically stepping away is very valuable, or you maybe the next day you want to check in because it's still lingery. You get out of the instant of the trigger, and then you choose to check in instead of check out. So it's focusing your attention inward as the first step just looking inside, just even closing your eyes and focusing your attention inside. The second step is curiosity.

So that's where you start to just tease it out a little bit and you'll say, Okay, where does that part of me live in my body? Where do I feel it? And you'll notice it's in my jar, or it's in my stomach or my chest or my shoulders or wherever it lives. You'll ask a few more questions, are there any thoughts or feelings or sensations attached with this belief or pattern, And then you'll hear you know I'm not good enough, or you know I can, or

maybe you'll have an image. You know, I see myself and I'm five years old and the bully on the playground is yelling at me, or whatever that storyline was, and or you know, my dad just left or whatever the experience. Maybe you'll see the image or you'll hear words. So you just keep teasing it out, just noticing thoughts, feeling, sensations,

what's happening inside. And once you have a little bit of connection, remember that self, you're going to connect deeper with compassion, which is the third step, and you're going to ask the part not yourself. You're asking the part of the activated part of you, what do you need? And Jay, it'll be blown away. The part will say I need to dance, I need to rest, I need to play. Because what do these parts need? They need to be kids again, they need to return to that

natural role of being innocent, or I need love. And then once you have that third step. The fourth step is very easy, and it's really checking for self. So you're going to check in for those c qualities. Do I feel calm? Do I feel more compassionate? Do I feel connected? Do I have some clarity? Do I feel a little courageous to have creative energy buzzying inside of me? Oftentimes you'll very quickly feel calmer, you feel some courage and clarity is a big one that comes through quickly too.

And so those four steps rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. And I've prescribed this. I've looked at my audiences and I've said, okay, listen, what about one minute a day? Four steps is bothering you? And everyone's like, nothing, I can do that. And so that's it, one minute a

day steps. Because the thing is, once you do this one time, then you can realize, oh wait, I can do this maybe in an hour from now, or I can do it before I'm going to bed when I'm having anxiety, or I can do it after that deep conversation with my partner that really activated me. I can keep coming back to this really simply without feeling like it's a burden. It can be as little or as

much as you want. But I've always taught as a metaphysical teacher that the miracles that we experience in our life for the experiences when we change the way we

experience something, not that the things outside of us change, but that our experience of our experience changes, and that's what this will offer.

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store near you. What I really appreciate about it is that we're going back to being guided from within, yes, And I feel that's somewhere where we've lost in society, where it's constantly been or your parents taught, or your

friend's thought, or your family thinks. Now what social media thinks, and we're so overexposed to everyone else's opinion, and it's so common for us to ask questions about what we should do with our life in the group chat, you know, trying to get someone else's opinion to give us the answer. And I think we've lost the ability to understand that all of the answers are right there within if we

were simply to sit with ourselves. Your body will tell you, your heart will tell you, your mind will tell tell you. And this practice really allows you to do that again. So it's not like here's a fix it orld situation. It will tell you something different every time when someone does it for the first time, How can they do it in a way that they have an experience where

they get a taste that it's real. Because I think when we hear these things and you know what the truth is today, I've been thinking about this a lot, and you're you're the right person to ask this because you've shared so many great pieces of advice over the years. I feel everyone knows what they have to do, but we don't actually do it properly, and so we never have the qualitative experience that convinces us we should keep

doing it. Whereas when you've had that qualitative experience, whether it's an amazing meditation, whether it's the four step practice, once you've had that qualitative experience and you've felt the impact, you'll do it again and again and again. But the first time, how can someone really lock in the first time they do this.

this is our one simple life? Is I'm batching it? But this is this one beautiful life that we have? And am I going to take it to the max? Am I going to live to the highest and the best? And that's one question, And that's one place to come to this or the other place that there may be people listening that are hitting a massive bottom in their life.

And for those folks, Jay, it's going to be a lot easier to pick up this book and start a lot easier because when we are there's that beautiful roomy quote. The wound is the place where the light enters you. When you are in that moment of hitting some kind of bottom, or you're having that that addiction come to an end, or you're in the divorce, or you're having a crisis at work, or you've lost the job, or you've gotten the diagnosis. Those are the moments when the

light enters you. So the question you want to ask yourself is am I willing to do whatever it takes to get to great? Am I willing to do whatever

it takes to feel great? And that's the path I've been on. I've been on. I want to get to great. I've lived through a lot of a lot of different difficult experiences, as all of us have, and I've just been on a pursuit of feeling great. This is and this this interesting thing that I heard in a twelve set meeting early in my recovery was if they want, if you want what they have, do what they do. So sometimes that's just enough to be listening and be like, well,

Jay Jay and Roddy did that, you know? Or you know, if you want what they have, do what they do. There's a reason that somebody is in And when I say what they have, I don't mean the external things, I mean the inner piece. If you want what they have, do what they do. And the thing that happens that you said that was also quite interesting, is that why

this is a spiritual practice. It's because when you start to reflect inside and start to tend to these protection mechanisms, these burdened parts, they start to feel seen, like what do child? What does a child need? Child needs to be seen, soothed, loved, cared, common, compassionate energy. So it

starts to feel like you have this internal parent inside and you realize, as Dick Schwartz says, that you are the one you've been waiting for, that all of the external validation or love or connection or support, all that outside stuff that you've been seeking to find completion and

safety is actually inside of you. And I know that's something that people always say in spiritual you'll really experience that with this what's the balance do you think, Gabi of how much external validation and how much self validation we need?

have access to, the more self you attract. So the more calm, connected, compassionate energy you bring into your life, so you do get that love and that connection because you are always receiving back what you are vibrating out.

And what I was explaining to someone was that any time I've wanted someone to validate me externally, they can never fully satisfy my need for it because they haven't lived my life, and in this same way, I haven't lived theirs, so I can't validate them effectively either, because I haven't been up with them on those sleepless nights. I haven't gone through the trauma that they've gone through.

And so even if I'm to say, well done, you did great, that's amazing, it will still never fully satiate their desire for validation, because, as you just quoted Dick Schwartz, that you're the one you've been waiting for. It's only when I sit with myself and I cry at the thought of everything I've been through and honor myself for every way I've showed up for myself, whether it's my body, my mind, my heart, and my soul, that's the only time when I'll actually be satisfied. And I've noticed that

again and again, so I completely agree with you. The point isn't that I don't appreciate external validation. I do. The point isn't that I'm not inspired when I'm validated externally. I am. But the only type of validation that really really like affects me deep in my heart, and my gout is when it's coming from me. That's right, because I have all the details. I have the record books, I have the files and the notes on every difficult moment I've been through, just as you do for yourself.

the age now where he can just like run around and do his thing, and I'm and he's a great swimmer, and I'm not stressed out about what's going on, so I'm like, go do you man, And I'm sitting on the dock by myself. My husband was out for a drive. I'm sitting I just played some tennis. I'm sitting on the dock. I've got this new book in my hand,

I'm in my you know, my red bathing suit. I've got my iced coffee next to me. It's like like there's like it's dirty all over the dog, but I didn't care. And I was just sitting there on this like cozy chair and I'm looking at the water and I had this incredible energy just pour through me. This energy was just like just spirit. It was spirit coming through. I mean, that's the way I would just define this.

And this just self energy just so connected, so in the moment, so present, there wasn't anything else that I was thinking about or trying to get to or trying to do, and it was just this moment of whoa, this is what we've been training for. It just flood in and that isn't a fleeting moment. That's how we can live our lives. We can live not all day. Every day. We're going to be in self. We're going to get activated, We're going to get triggered. The best

of us are going to get triggered. But it's the trigger has become less less. What one was years would be days or minutes or five seconds, and we start to access more of that presence and that taste of that energy, that self energy, you want more of it. And also I think that there's this thing I always call spiritual proof when you have an experience of something where you say, oh my god, I just did that four step thing and I actually feel a little bit calmer.

And Gaby said, all I need is to be a little bit calmer, and then I've done the job.

feel the pain. And what happens with this beautiful practice is that as you start to tend inward, you recognize

that you don't have to reexperience the pain. You can just be present with what the protector needs in that moment, and in that moment it can just soften. And it's these moment by moment unburdenings of the pain of that that you've held on to you for so long.

the response to it. And sometimes it might happen till the next day when you have a little bit of a of a judgment hangover or whatever it is, but you notice it and you say, okay, you know, I'm going to check in, And so you'd check in with the judgment and you'd focus your attention towards that judgment inside, so instead of being in your head, you'd get into your internally and I like to close my eyes with this. I can also suggest that people do this with journaling.

So at the top of the page, you could say, I choose to check in with my judgment and then the compassionate, the curious connection, that curiosity coming inside. You'd ask the judgment, what are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to reveal? Because the judgment will then speak And this is really helpful. You asked earlier,

what's a great way to start journaling. It's a great way to do this because if you're just journaling with it, you'll let your pen flow and that stream of consciousness will start to come forward into the page and you'll be blown away what the part will start to say. Just journal with the part, So you ask you what do you need? And then you'll just journal, journal, journal, and then it's going to you know, carry on with the four questions. So check in curiosity, compassion, and what

do you need and then start to journal more. How do I feel now?

go away, go away, go away. I don't want to talk to you.

not sue ourselves.

And she's like, I literally feel like I would die. And that's the thing with these protectors is that we don't realize it, but they actually are protecting us from feelings that we think and believe inside unprocessed trauma, feelings that we believe will take us down. We believe they will take us down. And it's only when we start to self soothe and access a little bit of that self inside that we can start to realize no, no, no, no,

actually there's some safety here. I feel like I can actually be a little bit more resilient than I thought, or it's not that terrifying to go there. I can go there and I can be okay on the other side. But we have to have that spiritual proof in order to actually have even any desire to keep going.

And I think sometimes it's almost like everyone knows they need to work out and everyone knows they need to take supplements and vitamins. But when you don't do that properly and you don't do it consistently, you don't have the proof that it works.

And so that's why it took me years in therapy and I wish it'd had this book because I think it would have been a more gentle access to it. So I don't let's stop talking about I'll give it to them, okay, okay, and you can do it for yourself. I think everyone listening, maybe you close your eyes while we do this if you want to, and for your own sake, Jay, just think of a protector that you might be aware of. And you don't have to say

out loud what you're working with unless you want to later. Okay, and everybody listening check in right now with At this point, maybe you're aware of a part of yourself that is a little activated at times, or maybe very activated at times, the parts that are controlling or addicted, or maybe the part that runs through a refrigerator or checks out with YouTube, or the aspects of yourself that you want to check in with, and choose one right now, and once you're

aware of that part, if you're not driving, you can generally close your eyes and focus your attention inward and choose to check in with the part. And now noticing inside with a little curiosity, where does that part of you live in your body? Where do you feel it inside? And does it have a shape or a color or is there any words or thoughts or memories attached to it? And give it a breath, take a deep breath in

like Jaj just did. Breathe in with it, and just be present with it and let it know that it's safe to let you know more to any memories or feelings or sensations, and don't judge anything that comes forward.

part know that you've listened, that you're here, and take another deep breath in, and well, just check in and notice how you feel. Do you feel even the slightest bit more calm? Do you feel a little bit of compassion towards that part? Are you curious? Would you like to know a little bit more at some point? Are you willing to get to know more? Do you feel connected? Do you have more clarity about it? Any creative energy buzzing through? You feel a little buzziness? Just notice those

ce qualities, courage, need confidence. Just take one last deep breath in, just let it go, and then whenever you're ready, you can open your eyes. See how you feel. I watched you go there.

that's the kind of energy that it often has. And to not have that energy for that protector was new, because the energy that I have for the protector is most likely negative or condescending or some sort of kind of derogatory kind of feeling, whereas this was it was really pleasant to see in Oh, like, you're not all that bad. You've been needed, you've performed a purpose, you've been useful, and and it's not perfect, but I'm grateful,

Like yeah, yeah, and that that was quite new. I've never done that before.

it perfectly. Because this is perfect. And if you're like I actually feel worse, that's fine too, because you tried right, You did that, you went through the journey that it doesn't This is just the first baby step in the experience. Like I shared earlier, is about getting into relationship with the part, not pushing it away, shutting it down, blaming and shaming. It's getting into relationship with And here's the

cool part. The more you do this, the more you can actually speak for your parts rather than as your parts.

I mean, it's amazing that marriages can get that much better for a time and we have a language around it. And I said to him something happened where he said something that was really triggering to me. It was like something that we're like I did something with my kid that he didn't like, and he was kind of shaming me, but not on purpose, but I felt shamed because when does knives out come out? Jay? When I feel shame? Right, Like,

I don't want to feel that shame. So instead of feeling that shame, I'm going to literally bring the knives out, go and become completely overtaken. You'll if anyone that read my books on me, they'd be like terrified and cry and run in the corner. And knives out comes out and she's like cursing, and she's like go after yourself, you know, and like outraged. And later that night Zach was just like I don't know what to do with that part, Like what the hell was that? Why did

you We've been so good? Why did you have to act out like that? And I said, I was triggered in the moment, and I was taken over by the part, and I want to speak for the part. There's that part again that when she feels shame, she goes into a nut, she checks out. I become blended with the part. You literally could take on like a different physical form.

Your face can change, your voice can change. And I just said, I'm really sorry for how I acted, and I want to take ownership that that part gets really

and I'm not saying, oh, it's just a part, so get over it. I'm saying, that's that part that I'm still working with. I'm going to speak for the part. The part got really activated. She felt shame. When she feels shame, she can't she goes crazy. And so I'm going to keep working with her. And I'm sorry that she acted out, but I'm speaking for her that rather than as her, as her would have been like still in that rage, I'm protecting no matter what, fighting for

the part. And this is really cool in work environments, So if you've got coworkers that you work with or a boss that pisces you off, you cause starts speaking for the part. You can go to the boss and just say hey, listen, depending on the environment, but you could in your own way say hey listen. I just want to let you know that when I get really flustered, when I don't know the answers, I just wanted to let you know that that a part of me gets

really activated when I don't know all the answers. So if you see me acting weird in those but I just want to let you know, because I'm not trying to bullshit you, but I actually just get really flustered. And you just imagine living like that or starting a relationship with somebody and you have this language and you're like, listen, A part of me is like a very anxious attishment style. And I just want you to know that, Like, like I might act a little nuts at times because this

is a part of me that gets activated. If I was dating a guy early in a relationship and he said that's me, I'd be like, bro, let's take this further. And if they can't, then that's not your partner, right. But speaking for these parts just makes you so much cooler.

this work and they want to encourage their partner to be included in it, how do you do that? How do you go about that conversation in a way I feel like so many people today are like, I don't want to date someone who hasn't done therapy. I don't want to date someone who hasn't healed. How do you actually have that conversation in a healthy way.

And he was just like go after yourself, like, no, I'm not doing that. And I kept being like, well, why isn't he doing it? And I went to my teacher and I said, listen, my husband isn't doing the practice with me. He doesn't want to do it. And she looked at me and she said, the second that you walk in the door, when you get home, she said, take off the turbin and shut up. And that was it. That's my answer for everybody. Take off your metaphorical turbine

and shut up. Because if your partner's not ready for it, they're not ready for it. You do the work. You are the one you've been waiting for. You get to work, you start tending to the parts of yourself inside, and when you change, everybody else around you has the opportunity to rise up with you. And that's in relationships. If you start to rise and they don't rise with you, then that's your sign. Okay, it's time to move on. But when you rise, you give somebody the opportunity to

elevate with you, alongside you. But you got to do the work you can't. Yeah, you could say I'm tracting a partner that wants to do the work, but their work might be different than your work. And so I've been on my own path. Zach's been on his own path. We find intersection, but he's not sitting and going to ashram or he's not going to go and deep do a two hour meditation. But he will do self help with me. He'll check in with me. But this is a journey. You got to do the work for yourself.

And so that's why addicts deserve a tremendous amount of compassion, because oftentimes we're traumatized people who do not have the resources in that moment to actually heal and help ourselves. So in the scenario of an addict, let's just say they may have pushed a lot of people away. They might have created a lot of wreckage. And so it's first in the inner work of the self forgiveness. There's

a chapter in the book called self forgiveness. In the inner work of getting in relationship with those parts and recognizing that that was a part that was working really hard and forgiving yourself first, because you won't really be able to even be in an energy that could be resonant with someone to receive their forgiveness if you don't forgive yourself first, because then you're needing them to make it right for you. You have to make it right for you.

And when you do that, that's when your amends will really land. So I can look at Zach now and say, I know that this part needs me, and I'm working really hard with her, and so I'm going to forgive her and I'm gonna ask for your forgiveness as well. And so I think that's the answer, Jay, is that if you've pushed, if your parts have created a lot of wreckage in your life, then you have to really,

no one has to. My suggestion is to go deep into your own inner healing and forgiveness of yourself and forgiveness of the parts and acceptance of the parts, and then you'll be shown Self will guide you. You'll be self led. Self is spirit, so self is God. Self is the energy of love inside of you will show you. Okay, when you feel that you have access to that self forgiveness inside, you're going to know that it's time to

go and make amends. And maybe you get the forgiveness or maybe you don't but you don't need it, but you're there to ask to really to make amends. I think that all relationships, if there are two parties that are interested in this, this is an extraordinary practice for a couple, extraordinary, it's an extraordinary practice for a parent.

Doctor Becky Kennedy's a good friend and she's also very good friends with Dick Schwartz, and she practices a lot of ifs in the work as well, and it comes through in her work a lot because think it's curiosity. You have a DFK deeply feeling kid like I do, and the child needs your self energy and the case of my child. So to answer the second question, how do we do this with their kids? Some kids might

like the four steps. Some kids might like, you know, they're really activated, and you're like, okay, let's check in, you know, let me check in, and you actually could go through the steps of them. Let's check in with that part at where do you feel at your body?

They need the adult resourced, undamaged self as often as possible as the parent, because that's what's safe and so

that self but gets more self. In the case of my child, if I start trying to go through the forests with him, he's like, are you kidding me? He is so allergic to you know, this kind of conversations. You're like, how you feeling? He's like, nah, mammy, So I have to do a little backwards ways, you know, I'll just be very casual, like, yo, bro, how are you feeling? Like what's going on? Like what happened today? Just really cash, really cash. So you have to know

your kid. Yeah, the kid is like, don't try that on me, mommy.

And I looked at them and I was like, so, guys, you know, I know I have a really aggressive part that likes to get really excited about things. So just warning you as we enter this car. And so we all speak for our parts in these relationships. And it really is quite funny when you're around as IFS people because we're all just like, my part feels this, but

it's beautiful. And imagine the whole world just walking around being like, hey, we just speak for a part of myself before I act like an asshole.

this is about taking ownership of our parts, but not in a way where we're judging them, but where we're befriending them and speaking for them and taking care of them.

served a lot of souls. So we didn't want to shut her down or blame her or shame her she was doing the best she could, and she also did a lot of good along the way, and we can be in difficult times and still be doing great things in the world. So I think that a part that is sort of beating us up, or not even beating us up, maybe like an encouraging part that's like, you know,

push harder, go more. It's it's it's a self like part. It's not it's not self, but it has more self aspects than protect your aspects. And the real question isn't is that bad or good? It's really is is it extreme? Because if it's extreme, that's when you really need to

start to tend to it. Because remember, we could be very praised for our perfectionism, or very praised for our work ethic, or very praised for how hard we hit the gym or how much we practice that tennis, and we could be really praised for that, and it looks like a great quality, and in many ways it is. But when it's extreme, it's oftentimes a very extreme protector.

the next thing. I got three more podcasts tomorrow. I'm still showing up, but I'm doing it in a less extreme way. You know this, You've known me for almost a decade. My energy is different. I'm not doing I mean, I'm not doing less. I'm just more intentional and I'm more aligned, and I'm more resourced, and I'm having more fun and I'm more child like. I can't tell you how many friends like you and Louis and like brothers of mine have been like, yeahy, you're like so youthful

and child like. You guys said that to me when we had dinner. And that's just the unburdening because it's gonna make me cry. It's like you return to this child like presence inside that was always there. Yeah, it just got taken from you.

had all this good energy you always have. I've never felt anything different, but I could feel that like ease and grace and peace from you. Yeah, And that's a really beautiful thing when you experience it in someone. Because I think we're used to being around high performing people who have big goals and targets and things like that, and that's not a fun energy to be around. It's kind of it's it's not like it's not attractive that and we're all ambitious and stuff, so there's nothing wrong

with that. But if that someone's overarching energy. It's not

the same as when you're around someone who's kind of just at ease and peace, even though they are driven and ambitious. Talk to me about that kind of paradox, because I think we think that if someone's at peace, they're slow, yeah, and if someone's ambitious, they're fast. Talk to me about slow fast yeah, peaceful, ambitious yeah yeah yeah.

not a sign of self energy at all. Achievement is oftentimes the sign of a lot of protectors working their ass off to get something going to protect you. What happens when we are in that self energy, when we're in self is that it's not that if we are a high performer. Just by nature, certain people just have different energies, right, We're born with different frequencies if that's in your nature and that's a part of you. It's not that that goes away, it's just that you can

do it in a more sustainable way. You have more boundaries, you have more ability to say yes, say no. You are clearer, so you're making better decisions. You're clearer so you're not surrounding yourself with the wrong folks, so you're you can actually move even faster and create even more because you're not burdened. So it's it's not faster or slow,

it's what is the energy that's moving through you. When you have self energy, you could move for real fast, but it's so intentional that it has so much more power and you actually can do a lot less and attract a lot more.

a boundary. We say we have a boundary, but we don't really keep up to it. So I'll give an example. I was talking to a friend the other day and she said she wanted to she only wanted to hang out if all of the friends were invited, and another one of her friends said, no, I only want to hang out with you, and she was like, well, if we hang out, then everyone's going to find out we hang out, and then they're going to be upset that we hung out. So I think we should invite everyone.

And the other friend said, no, I just want to hang out with you and a couple of other friends, but I don't want to invite everyone. So you had these two boundaries that were almost at odds with each other. One boundary was we should always invite everyone because it makes everyone feel included, which almost was people pleasing, not even a boundary. And the other boundary was, no, I think it should just be a small group of us.

And the person who wanted to invite everyone ultimately gave in and said, no, okay, fine, we'll just have a small group of us. Yeah. Now this is a very small example, but to me, it's at the heart of all the problems that we have. It's like people being upset that people didn't invite them to their wedding, People being upset that they invited them but didn't give them an important role. People being upset that their family didn't

prioritize their birthday. People being upset that they're always the ones organizing vacations and no one else does. Like, these are the real challenges in life that we're all going through every day. What do we do? How do we set boundaries that we actually stick to and that we're okay with letting people down?

also be really like, I've got all these boundaries. But that's a protector too, right, So, whether it's boundaries, whether it's it's control, whether it's anxiety, whatever the protector is, if those parts of you are happening in extreme ways that are misaligned with that calm, clear, curious compassionate, confident, courageous energy. Then it's a protector. Then it's a protector.

It's across the board when it comes to boundaries, I find that the more we do whatever type of personal development or spiritual practice that we have, and the more we start to access self inside, the more precious we realize our energy is, the more connected we feel inside, so we begin to know I can't do that anymore.

The more access to self that I have acquired, the easier it has been for me to be very boundaried with the people who work for me and literally speak the thing that in the wrong tone could be very upsetting, but with the self energy or fine, so saying Nope, I won't do that anymore, that's not my thing, or look at somebody in the eye and say, actually, that's your job. I want you to do that. That's no longer my job. I had a part for many years Jay that was if they don't do it, if I

don't do it, nobody else will. That was a really big part. If I don't do it, nobody else will. And that was lingering for up until maybe a year ago or less. It's really recent that it's been kind of out of my life, and not completely but.

I started and I ended, and so burn out. And so I kept working with it and working with it and checking in with it and noticing it and witnessing it and bringing it to my IFS therapy and bringing it to my meditation practice and checking in with it. I checked in with every single day for at least a year through my journaling. I literally wrote with it every single day for a year. During COVID, I was

working with it like crazy. So it's been maybe a decade of working two decades of working with that part, but really heavily in the last year, and man, I have come out the other side I'm literally looking at people, and I'm in a different nervous system. I'll look at somebody, I'll say, oh no, no, no, that's your job, that's

your job, that's not my job, or and I actually don't come across. I was probably much more of an asshole before because I was doing it and then mad that I was doing it, and then taking it out on them energetically. Right, So now I'm just like, oh, no, no, no, you know that's your thing, or I'm going to ask

that you do this thing. This is my clear clarity and boundaries as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as someone who wants to be a leader in your home with your child, in your classroom, and your business, whatever it is that you do. This is the most important book you could read as a leader. And I wish I actually know. It's easy for me to say that because it's based on Dick Schwartz's work. Right, So it's this or any ifs practice work is the most important thing

you could do as a leader. The Dick talks about self led leaders. We need to be showing up particularly right now. What's happened is everyone out there out there, It's all just a lot of damaged parts on all over the place. This country is insanely divisive all throughout the world. And that's just parts parts chaos, chaos.

you appreciate our conversation today, that you go grab a copy. Gabby. We end every episode of One Pert Was with a final five, and these questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay, so I'm going to ask you these final five, Gaby Benstein. These are your final five. Question Number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

we hate it. And it's like, oh, I love this partner, and now that things didn't work out, I hate them, and it's like, well no, no, no, Like you learned so much. And we don't only do that with jobs and people, we do that with ourselves. Where hey, there was this part of me that I hate now, and it's like, no, that part of you helped you survive college and kept you alive.

writing about. And so I'd look at this group of people who are all literally at witsheman who knows what kind of destruction they just two days into recovery. And I'd say to this group, well, listen, let me ask you how many people in this room have experienced trauma. They all raise their hand, and then I'd say, and wouldn't it make sense that you would do whatever it took to put out the flames of that impermissible fear and experience? And a lot of them would be like, Okay, yeah, yeah,

I get that. And then I'd say, well, wouldn't it make sense that the addict had a purpose that it's been working really hard to keep you safe. And I want to really really let people hear that at the parts of yourself that you're the most ashamed of that have caused the most chaos in your life, they've been working really hard to keep you safe.

are the people that are actually doing it. And I feel like there's a lot of bad advice I see all the time, Like there'll be someone on Instagram saying this is what to do on Instagram and someone will show it to me my friend or something saying oh ja, and I'm like, check how many follows that person has, Check what their engagement is like, check how many comments

they get. Yeah, don't trust them. Like it's just someone saying something and it sounds really convincing, and it sounds really well put, but they don't have the they don't have the engagement or anything to follow it.

whatever it is. How do we apply that to this?

right now. We could give them a quantum shift right here, right now if they choose to start to say, I forgive myself. I forgive myself, even if you just fake it till you make it. I forgive myself. Okay. And I like to kind of speak to myself like this, Jay, I'll do something that's kind of wobbly, maybe not the greatest thing I say. I'll talk like this, I'll go Okay, Okay, we did that again. Okay, we did that again? Who do I how do I need to clean it up? What do I need to who do I make amends to?

Who do I check? What part do I check in with? And then, very quickly, how do I choose again?

that self can get very quiet for people. And you talk a lot about trusting yourself ultimately, and it's you can't trust yourself when you can't hear yourself, and you can't hear yourself because you haven't listened to yourself for so long. And this book is helping you get back to that so that you're not making decisions based on rationale or logic or pros and cons lists, but you're actually having clarity from within, which is such a gift, and.

not about how often you say it. It's not about how many vision boards you create. It's not about how many affirmations you say. It's about how you relate to yourself inside, because you're always attracting who you are, you manifest tract you are.

I've been channeling in my meditations. It's it's getting inside, doing the inner work, and then bringing that self led energy into your local community and that will have a ripple effect.

Thank you again Gabby for coming on the show. It's great to have you back and have this conversation. And thank you. I'm so grateful for your work. I love you, Thank you, I love you too. Thanks Gavy. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving what

you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.