We confuse success and happiness. Now, success and happiness can overlap, for sure, but more often than not they don't. Happiness is happiness. Success as success, you're going to end up chasing society's idea more money about a holiday at a nicer phone. Right. I'm not saying those things are necessarily wrong. The problem is as if we chase them too much at the expense of what our happiness is. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast
in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now today's guest is one of those few guests that we've had on twice now today, and it's because his last episode was so special, so powerful. I know it impacted so many of you, and his books have as well. So I'm so excited to talk once again to the one and only doctor Rung and Chatteredy Now.
He's regarded as one of the most influential medical doctors in the UK and wants to change how medicine will be practiced for years to come. His mission is to help one hundred million people around the globe live better lives. He hosts the most listen to health and wellness podcasts in the UK and Europe Feel Better, Live More, which regularly tops the Apple podcast charts. The podcast has received fifty million downloads to date and is consumed by over
two point five million people every month. He's known for his ability, and this is why I love him and why you'll love his latest book, To Simplify complex health advice and finding the root cause of people's health problems. If you remember his last episode, you'll remember we've really got into how doctors can differ and change their perspective
about how they view their clients and patients. And of course today we're talking about his brand new book, which I'm going to hold up the virtual digital version, which is the world we live in now, Mind Happy Life, and I really really hope that all of you go out and grab a copy of this book, Ten Simple Ways to Feel Great every Day. Rongan, it's great to have you on the podcast again. It's great to see you, honestly, Congratulations on this amazing book and all your incredible success
and I can't wait for people to read it. But thank you for coming to talk to me about it. Jay, Thanks for having me on for a second. Time. Your show's fantastic. It's a real honor and looking really looking forward to this conversation. Yeah, me too, Me too. And when I was reading your book, I love how you're changing the way we perceive doctors and how doctors perceive patients. It's like this really interesting cycle of here's a doctor talking about happiness and how happiness is at the core
of our health. And that was one of the things I really appreciated when you last came on, when you were talking about when you often see your patients, you last more, how many times do you see your friends, how many times a week do you get together with the people that you love? And I was thinking, Wow, this is really a fresh perspective, and you've done it again. I want to dive straight in. You talk about this
connection between health and happiness. I want to start off trying to understand because often we find that pursuing happiness is actually bad for our health as well. So how are you seeing it differently. I'm not necessarily saying that we should be pursuing happiness directly. I think happiness is
a byproduct when we do the right things. There are all kinds of things that we can focus on daily basis, and if we do those things, we can talk about some of those laser For sure, I think happiness comes as a side effect of that. So it's not really I think the destination we should be aiming to get too directly. It's more kind of direction we might want to take in life. It's it's something that I think
we do want. But it's becoming quite unfashionable these days to talk about happiness, and that really really interests me. But in terms of the relationship between happiness and health, for me as a doctor, it's always how can I get to the root cause of my patient's problems? Right, Yes, what symptoms have they got? But actually what's going on
behind that? So they might come in with a headache or a migraine, and sure I can diagnose them and tell them what that is, but I want to help them understand, well, what is going on in your life and your lifestyle that might be contributing to this. And for many years I have said publicly on many occasions that about eighty percent of what we see as doctors is in some way related to our collective modern lifestyles. But then I began to wonder a few years ago Jay, Well,
it's lifestyle the root cause. And when I say lifestyle, I mean things like food, movements, sleep, and relaxation. And I thought, is there something that's even more important, even more upstream, and that has consumed me for a few years, And I really think there is. It's our happiness and our mental well being. So when we are happier with our lives and in our lives, we naturally become healthier.
And I think there's two main reasons for that. Happier people, so people who are more content if you are more in control of their life, who are living more in accordance with their values. Actually, they naturally make better lifestyle choices. So if you feel good about who you are and what you're doing in life, you're less likely to feel the need to comfort eat and open that box of chocolates in the afternoon to get you through. You're less likely to dive into the tub of ice cream in
front of the sofa in the evening. You're less likely to open a bee or half a bottle of wine to help you drown your sorrows if you feel happier and more content, So I think that's one component aestyle choice has become better and it becomes much easier. But I think there's another component as well. Research shows us.
There was a study called the Nuns Study, and they follow nuns across the duration of their life and essentially, once you had controlled for lifestyle, so same diets, same sleep patterns, same exercise habits, want you to control for that, the happier nuns lived longer and they were healthier. Right, So it's independently linked with good health outcomes as well. And I've seen this with my patients Jay that if
I can help them think differently. But if you're someone who allows the actions of other people to overly influence how you feel, you know, an email from your boss makes you feel really angry and annoyed and you don't know how to process that, that is creating stress and tension in your body. That is also absolutely relevant to your health and your health outcomes. And we don't think of that. People don't realize, I think, or not enough
for us to realize. Certainly, I would say with the public, but also within my profession, that's an inability to forgive. Holding onto anger and resentments, holding onto hostility is absolutely associated with all kinds of negative health outcomes. Autoimmune disease, heart disease, cancer, strokes, all kinds of things. So what do I want to do as I want to help people and I know I'm going to be able to help them better if I can help them become happier.
The reason why we're unhappy, and it would be interesting to go down that path, because the reason why you're working on these things, the patients that you work with, why you wrote this book, is because we are to some degree unhappy or dissatisfied or discontent with who we are. And we don't know what our values are because we've never been trained and educated as to how to develop them. And we don't know how to be aligned with ourselves
because we don't even know what that means. We never really were exposed to that vocabulary or those words up until the last few years, even in mainstream society. When you're looking at the root of our unhappiness, where is that root of our unhappiness that you're seeing it come from? I think much of it comes from society and this idea of what success is. Right. So I think one
of the big problems is that we confuse success and happiness. Now, success and happiness can overlap for sure, but more often than not they don't. It's happiness is happiness, success is success, and unless you intentionally go through a process to actually define what those things are for you, you're going to end up chasing society's idea more money about a holiday at a nicer phone, know about a hotel when you go and stay away with your family or your partner. Right,
I'm not saying those things are necessarily wrong. The problem is as if we chase them too much at the expense of what our happinesses and many of us fall into that trap. I have fallen into that trap, j Right, I have absolutely you know, I start off the book, I think, with a very powerful story about my dad's You know Dad. You know, he grew up in India. He came over to the UK in the nineteen sixties in search of a better life for him and his family, yes us here in the UK, but also for his
family back home in India. And Dad worked incessantly. You know, Dad was a doctor. There was all kinds of discrimination he faced. He had to change speciality because actually he was unable to progress in the speciality that he wanted. Many Indian doctors will tell you this story from the nineteen sixties in the UK, there was a glass ceiling for you. You couldn't go past a certain point. So Dad moves speciality to help provides security and stability for
us as a family. When Dad was consultant, my dad's life for thirty years was he would do his job in manaster wom Infirmary as a consultant physician in the day and three to four nights a week. My dad's wouldn't sleep at all, so he'd come home at five thirty in the evening or six pm in the evening. Mum would give him dinner, he'd go upstairs in shave and then there'd be a car picking him up at seven pm and then Dad would be off all night. He'd come back the following morning at seven am again,
have breakfast, shave again. I remember he would he be shaved twice a day, go to work. Dad did this for thirty years. And here's the problem, Jay, My whole adult life until nine years ago when my dad died, was being a career for my dad. I moved back to the northwest of England to help Mum and my brother look after dads. This kind of idea of what cess is. It killed my dad, he chased it, he
got it. I had a fantastic education, right, I couldn't want for a better education, but I never saw my dad's You know, my dad died very very early in the last fifteen years of his life were hell. I think that story, whilst potentially not as extreme for some people, there will be people right now, Jay, who love your content,
who are listening to this show or watching it. I'm probably thinking, yeah, I sort of I love my job, but maybe I'm working a bit too hard, and I'm kind of sacrificing the things in my life that are really important. So I kind of feel society gives us a false idea of happiness. You know, we think happiness, Jay, is that billboard you know, that billboard image of the smiling couple on the beach with their children with the ocean behind them. We think that's happiness. Now, that's not happiness.
That's a pleasurable experience that can form part of a happy life, no doubt, but that's not happiness. You know, I've got two young kids, like I've got eleven year old son and nine year old daughter, and you know, all of us I think as kids younger than that. When we're really young, we've got that inner happiness. You know, we're present, We're in the moment. We're playing, maybe with our siblings, maybe with our friends. We're not worrying about
the future, we're not fretting about the past. We're right there in the moment. So that happiness is there inside us. But somewhere along the line in the book, I call it the adulthood contract. We sign this adulthood contract and things start to go wrong. And I already see it with the kids. Like school doesn't teach us how to be happy. I don't think many of our parents teach us how to be happy. Society doesn't teach us how to be happy. In fact, society probably teaches us the
wrong lessons about what happiness really is. And that's the key message behind this BOOKJA is to help people understand that happiness it's a skill. It's a skill that you can practice. Just as if you go to the gym and you do bicep curls every day, you're going to
have bigger biceps. Well, you know, my concession is, I feel like broken down the skill of happiness and to tend very easy steps of people, and if they practice them a little bit, they're going to be a little bit happier, and as they become happier, they're going to become healthier as well. Absolutely, thank you so much for sharing that story as well about your father, which really
you know, encapsulate this idea really well. I think for me, when I think about what happiness means to me, happiness is, as you said, ability, the ability to know how to navigate uncomfortable and uncertain times, because when you know what you have to do, it's more important than wanting to know how things will end up. So we think our happiness is, well, how will this end up? How will what will the result of this be? Will that make
me happy? And to me actually go no, Actually, happiness to me is knowing what to do right now in the moment and having that sense of reflection and introspection and the stillness to be able to carry that out because the search, as you said, for that billboard happiness that's out there, that's a projection again, a societal projection. We're trying to invent and create that in a world that doesn't allow for that every day or at every moment.
And so knowing what to do in the moment. To me is where happiness begins, of knowing how to behave, how to think, and what to do. And that's what these ten habits do. You break down what you call core happiness as a three legged stool, contentment, alignment, and control. I want to go through each of these because they've formed the tenets of these ten habits or principles you give us. But let's let's start with contentment. And you
describe contentment here. I've got it in the book. Feeling content means being at peace with your life and your decisions. That's really hard because most of us, when we look back, especially at the past, we think, Wow, I've made a lot of bad decisions. I wish I tried that thing. I wish I never went out with that person, while I should have left that job a lot earlier. So most of us actually have a very negative view of our decision making process. Let's talk a bit about decisions,
especially decisions of the past, that we regret. How do we create contentment around those, specifically around decisions in the past. If you know we have a deep regret, let's say, oh, I wish I'd done something differently. I think the first step is to really try and get to a place of acceptance. You were doing the best that you could at that time with what you knew. Right. If you
could have done it differently, you would have. And you know, it depends how deep you want to go with this, but certainly for me, one of the things that's really helped me with my happiness and my contentment in particular as real acceptance of every single thing that has ever happened to me or I have done, whether it's something I'm proud of, whether it's something I'm not proud of, where it's something that actually I could make a case
that I made the wrong decision. Now, actually I made the very best decision for my growth, because actually, if I look back now and see that it was potentially a negative, it's about reframing it to go, oh, what did I learn from that? What did I learn from that? Oh? I never would have learned that had that not happened, had I not gone to that job that I didn't like. You know, I can think of one particularly in my mind.
You know, early on in my career as a DOT say, I was like I worked in a practice that I hated the framework and the structure there, right. I would get frustrated. I would come home and complain to my wife every day. She kept saying, hey, babe, you know, if you don't like it, why don't you leave him? I can't leave you know this, It pays us money,
it does you know story. I created this kind of almost like a victim story around it, you know, And I know the word victim can be very triggering for people, and I don't mean it to be certainly you've talked about my own experience. What I've learned, Jay, is that you can always write a different story about any events in life. You've always got a choice in what story you put onto something, and you can practice this and
train it. So one of my sort of types of people is, in any bit of friction you encounter in life, see if you can choose a happiness story around it. And there's a couple of ways that we can think
about this. So, you know, if we remember back to March twenty twenty, when the whole world was sort of going into lockdown and people were getting scared, there was lots of images of supermarket shells being empty and there'd be no toilet role there, right, So these are big headlines and the amount of people who were like criticizing. I can't believe there's who's doing this, you know, who's taking more. You can tell yourself that story for sure, but you can also see if you can write a
different story around the same situation. So, okay, what was going on there? Well? Could it have been the every shop at that day took one extra role and so by the end of the day the supermarket shells are empty. Okay, that's possible. Could it be that actually one person went in and yes, they did buy loads and loads of packets because actually they look after for elderly grandparents and
actually they're really worried about what's going to happen. Maybe it was someone who actually went in and they wanted to buy as much as they could and sell it on eBay. Okay, how do you happen a story? Though? Ah? You know, what must have been going on in their life. Maybe they really don't have any money. Maybe they are so desperate they don't feel they've got any opportunities in life, and actually this is an opportunity for them that they've
seen it to make a bit of money. You know what I've realized when it comes to most bits of friction in our life, the truth actually doesn't matter jay for your happiness. The truth doesn't matter. Write a happiness story that works for you. And this is something I
try my best. See. It's probably the thing that's had the most impact on my feeling of contentment is that every day if I get a bit of social friction, Let's say someone leaves a negative comment on my social media for example, right, instead of wishing it was other than the way it was, Oh, I can't believe the active like that, it's like, oh, okay, let me go through a process here, you know. Number one, is there any truth to this? Okay, yeah, there's a bit of
truth here. I can learn here. I've been given an opportunity to learn. If there's no truth here, oh well, why is this bothering me? And it's like putting the mirror up and instead of looking out there, it's like, what is being triggered within me? Is it my insecurity? Is at my need to be liked and loved? You know what is it? Because then you start to take control of the situation. Do you know what I mean?
It's I think it's I think it's you can rewrite a already on anything, and i'd tell you when this was really brought home to me. Jay, have you heard it for Edith Eager? Yeah, I don't know if you've interviewed either. If you haven't, you absolutely should. You would absolutely love talking to her. But Edith came onto my podcast last year. At the time she was ninety three years old. I think about that conversation pretty much every
single day. It had such an impact on me. When Edith was sixteen years old living in Eastern Europe, she was getting ready that evening she was going to go on a date with her boyfriends. There was a knock on the door and before she knew it, her and her sister and her parents were on a train to Auschwitz. She gets to Auschwitz. Within two hours of getting there, her parents are murdered. She's there with her sister, she
doesn't know what's going on, what's happening. And then later that day she had to dance, right, she had to dance for some of the prison guards there. And the last thing her mum said to her was, Edith, nobody can take away from you what you put inside your mind. So the first thing she told me was when I was dancing. I wasn't dancing in Auschwitz. I was dancing in Budapest opera house. I was dancing. There was a full orchestra there, that the crowds were there, That's what
I was dancing. So that's the first lesson I learned for her, that you can create a story in your mind. And then she told me Dr Chassee, when I was in Auschwitz, I wasn't a prisoner. The prison guards were prisoners. They weren't living their life. I was free in my mind. And it just went on and on and the words I think about every day, j oh when she said to me, wrong and listen, I have lived through Auschwitz. But I can tell you the greatest prison is the
prison you create inside your own mind. And I thought, Okay, if Edith Eger can write a different story about events, a happiness story, if you will about events in the hell of Auschwitz, that I'm pretty sure I can reframe most of the small frictions in my own life. And it's it's it's been so powerful for me, Jay, it really has. I mean, do you ever you know, how do you deal with friction? Is that something you try to apply in your own life or how do you
see it? Yeah, I mean I just everything you just shared right now, and I had come across Edith Egi's story and I didn't realize you interviewed her, which is which is fantastic and so phenomenal to hear about your experience with her. Everything you just said I am fully
aligned with. And I don't think you could have picked a better example, because to share it from someone who has been through the worst of the worst of the worst, and for that person to be able to create a reframe at that time gives us all an opportunity to realize how powerful it is. And so I am fully with you, like fully aligned, fully in agreement with you, And in my own small way in my life, I
do this same thing. And I think when we look at our life as a story as opposed to a checklist, or as opposed to a hit list, or as opposed to a list of goals, right, like, it's a very different approach. When you see your life as a list of goals, and if you don't reach them, you don't feel good about yourself. You're missing the story. Right if you look at all the people who've achieved goals that we admire they all got there because they lived a story.
They didn't live a goal, they didn't live a journey to a goal. And so I do it all the time as well. I'm constantly reframing my experience of life. And what you said is so true that they're in one sense, there is no truth in one sense to any of our stories and journeys, because what is objectively the truth is just a perception. Yeah, I mean, I think you're like this one, Jakey, because I know you're a football fan or I should say soccer fan, as I'm on your show. But they did this study, right,
They looked they were talking to football fans, same incident. Right, everyone can see the incidents, and they interviewed both sets of fans on different sides. What happens, completely different version of reality over the same incident. Right. Think about any I guess marriage or two partners right when they have a disagreement. There are two versions of reality, right, you know, it depends on which side of the table you're sitting
on determines your reality. And I've learned, actually, and it sounds quite controversial that for your happiness, I think sometimes the truth doesn't matter. It's the spin you put on it that you can put a spin on it that's going to make you feel disempowered and a victim. And look, I want to be respectful. I understand there are some pretty horrendous things that happen in life two people. I understand that, and sometimes it's harder than in other times.
But this is something you can get better at. You can always put a new story on it. And what happens, then, Jay, is that every day becomes a school day. Right, every day you're you're being given, You're being gifted opportunities by the world around you to learn something about yourself and a tip maybe for your audience if they think, Okay, this is quite difficult. Right, you know someone's done this
and I don't like it. Something that I found really helpful, it's this idea that if I was that other person, I'd be doing exactly the same. And what I mean when I say that is if I'm with that other person, with their childhood, with their childhood experiences, with their parents, with the bullying they received at school, with the boss that they had, if I were them, I would absolutely be making the same decisions as them. Yes, And I
honestly feel that if we don't think we would. You know, I invite people to consider maybe it's not ego talking because they made the decisions. That's their version of reality. And I find that gives me this ability to be compassionate, much more compassionate to every single person that I meets, whether I agree with them or not. And Jay, look at the state of the world at the moments right it's seemingly pretty divided. Certainly online it seems pretty divided.
And I think this approach not only makes us feel better, but I think when we can exercise this compassion to everyone, even people we disagree with, I think that's what's going to make the world a much much better and happier place, definitely.
And you reminded me of that. I'm sure you remember that famous Prince William Meam where he's holding up his fingers like this, and so he's actually saying, I think he's like number three, And if you look at it from the other angle, it looks like he's putting his middle finger up. And it's like these two pictures that are put next to each other, and one of them looks like he's putting his middle finger up to the press.
But actually when you see it from another angle. He's putting three, and he obviously means something else by that, And so I love that. When we're talking about contentment, that makes a lot of sense. Let's shift to alignment. I really like the way you define alignment. You said, feeling aligned means that the person you want to be and the person you are actually being out there in
the world are one and the same. And I remember a very beautiful thought by Gandhi whenever I think about alignment, and I believe he said that when you experience peace and harmony when what you think, what you say, and what you do are aligned. And whenever I think about that or whenever I share that teaching, I find that most people think something but say something else. We say one thing, but then we do a completely different thing. And so we're living in this very divided world, even
inside of ourselves, because it's completely disconnected. How do we start creating a more aligned life because often we're scared of saying what we think, and we're even more scared of doing what we say, and then we're worried about what everyone else thinks of all of that. So alignment becomes a really big challenge walk us through that for
a bit. Yeah, I mean the first thing to say, it's not going to be super easy in the sense that it's not something you can just listen to us having a conversation and then immediately afterwards go, okay, cool, right now I'm going to go and as aligned in the world. Now, this is a process. It's a very fun process, but it's a process nonetheless. So you know, alignment this idea that are inner values on our external
actions are matching up, whatever that is. And the reason I guess I'm so passionate about this day is I've really this is something like I've really struggled with pretty much my entire life. I feel that what I'm really trying to do these days is become more and more aligned and actually to really tune into who I actually am, which sounds like the easiest thing in the world to do, but actually for many of us it's one of the hardest things because since we were kids, we started to
do things to gain the approval of others. But I know for me, for much of my life, I only felt that I was worthy of love and acceptance if I achieved, if I was successful, and I think for me, well, I know a lot of it comes down to my upbringing. And you know, I love my parents to bits I think they did. I'd like to think they did a pretty good job with bringing me up, but there were
some things. Again, there's two versions of reality, right, I remember, and I think there's something in the immigrant mentality here. I don't know if this echoes your experience or not. But if I came back from school with nineteen outs of twenty and something, my mum would say, well, why didn't you get twenty? If I came back with ninety nine, my mom would say, well, yeah, why didn't you get
one hundred percents? And I didn't realize it at the time, but I took on this perception that I'm only loved and really seen and valued when I win and get top marks. And that's very toxic because on the outside you can appear quite successful, you can appear as though you're achieving and doing things, but on the inside, you know there's nothing. There's a real deep insecurity. I've had
that for much of my life. I think, you know, external success looks good, but on the inside you know you don't feel good, and so you go to what I call these junk happiness habits, whether that be you know, drinking or gambling or you know these days Instagram potentially overusing it and this sort of stuff. So for me, the process of alignment started with recognizing why I behave the way that I do, and it was a very
rewarding process. It's taken a bit of time, but this is not one hit ja that people are going to just think, oh, I need to do this, and now I can. The first step in any change is awareness. So even if someone's listening to this conversation and going, yeah, you know what, I'm not living in a lined life, like I'm not being the person out there who I really am. Okay, that is progress. Okay, you may want more, but that is a good start. At least now you know,
and then you can work on the next stage. So there's many ways in which people can do this. I think doing some sort of values exercise is really really helpful. I know we spoke about this when you came on my show. You've done a great job with this in your own book, Jay of talking about values in Happy Mind, Happy Life. There are some simple exercises to help people
understand what are your values? Can you choose three values from this long list, and you know, maybe once a week you reassess, Yeah, I think that is that doesn't fit quite right. I'm going to tweak it right, so you can keep tweaking until you really understand what these values are. And then you can, you know, look at your life, go how much at the time am I living in accordance with these values? And it's so simple, But just the act of writing it down and reassessing
is really really powerful. You start to make subtle shifts when you do that. So I think that's an important piece around alignment also, and I'm very very interested in your thoughts on this as well, Jay, this whole idea of core happiness, which has these three components. It's basically I was trying to come up with a model for happiness that actually people find genuinely practical and useful, not like a lofty concept that can I come up with
a model that holds true in every single situation. And I, you know, I think I cracked it with this model. Of course, I welcome hearing where I may not have got it quite right, but I really think that this encompasses this deep sense of happiness. These three components, contentments, control and alignments. And then I remember thinking, what about meaning and purpose? Because we keep hearing and of course you know your show's called on Purpose, you talk a
lot about purpose. I thought, well, where does meaning and purpose fits in here? Because a lot of people that you say say we shouldn't be chasing happiness, we should be chasing meaning. And I've spent weeks trying to solve this, and the way I came down on it, what I think underpins this altogether is that meaning and purpose comes with alignment. So meaning and purpose is important, right, It's a necessary ingredients for happiness. But I don't think it's
happiness in and off itself. And the reason I say that is because, let's say, first could be you or me for example, or it could be someone listening. Let's say you have a job that gives you meaning and purpose and you love it and it's helping the world, it really nourishes you. Okay, great, you've got meaning, but maybe you're working two hearts, getting back too late each night. Maybe you're not spending time nourishing the important relationships in
your life. Sure you've got meaning, but you don't have core happiness. And then you could take it to another extreme. Let's say in World War Two, you might make the case that a soldier fighting against the Nazis was living a meaningful life. But I'm not necessarily sure you could say that they were happy. So I'm awful, meaning and purpose. But I think it comes under the alignment leg of the core happiness model, the core happiness stool. And then
I think it also takes the pressure of people. Jay, I'm sure you get messages like this, but people often say that, you know, yeah, I want to find I want to find my purpose, but I don't know where to start, you know, what is my purpose? And they see people online and think, oh man, they've got their purpose. I don't. You know. Have you heard of the Japanese concepts of ikey guy. Yes, it's beautiful. Yeah, it really
is beautiful. And I remember in my second book, The Stress Solution, I wrote about it, this idea that ikey guys these four things, you know something, you know, we should be looking to try and find something that we're good at, that we enjoy doing, that the world needs, and that also makes money. And I thought, what a
beautiful concept. I want some ikey guy in my life and I remember Jay I was giving a talk in London, and I remember it so well because at the end of the talk, we were doing Q and A, and you know, a young lady at the back put her hand up and she said, dot CHASTI. I'm an eighteen year old Japanese students living in London, and I grew up with this concept of ikey guy, and frankly, I found it demotivating and it really put me off. It seemed like a two lofty bar for meet and meets
and that really hit me. Jay I thought, yeah, that's interesting. These nice ideas for some people, they're very off putting. I think that's where alignment and values can be really because if you're struggling to find your meaning and purpose rights, I would say focus on your values. So let's say you hate your job. Let's say you work in a call censor. You don't like it, but that pays you money and it helps you feed your family and put a roof over your heads, and you hear the stuff
of that meaning and purpose. I say, okay, focus on values. If one of your values is kindness, Let's say, then if you get up in the morning and you're kind to your partner, You get a coffee on the way to work and you're kind to the barista. You get on the bus and you're kind to the bus driver, and whilst you're at work you're kind to your work colleagues. Then you're living a life of meaning that is a
meaningful life. You may not love your job at the moments, but the more you act in alignment that meaning that purpose is going to come as a byproduct. So like, that's where I think meaning and purpose kind of fits into this core happiness idea. I mean, did that make sense? You know? Do you have any thoughts on that? Do you agree? You know? I'm I really welcome challenging the still because I kind of think it holds true in
every situation, But you know, i'd lot to know your view. Yeah, I mean, my honest take is I think that a lot of these discussions can be explained just through different terms in different language, used by different people, for words that appeal in different ways. So there are certain words that when you unpack them, I can see that we're trying to say the same thing, but you may use
certain words that I don't use. And this is exactly what you were saying before that if I don't take the time to listen, to understand, and to take a moment of stillness to say, well, let me understand what wrongan's really trying to say. Even though we use different words, we may actually find that we're trying to say the same thing, Whereas if I simply look at the words, I may say I disagree with you completely. I think
I think you're wrong, and I have another opinion. And so I think we have to be so careful with language because words mean so many different things to so many different people. And it's why I always say to people that we need more faces and voices in the world of health and willness, or in any field for that matter, because everyone needs to hear from a diverse set of voices and faces. Everyone is not going to connect to my language, and that's okay, and everyone's not
going to connect to your language, and that's okay. Because there have been times where I've heard a piece of wisdom one time, twice, three times, four times. I hear it the ninth time from some random person. But the way they said it, the penny dropped and it hit me, like it just hit me, and I was like, but I've been hearing that since I was a kid, but hearing it from that person at that time and that voice in that moment, that had an impact on me. And so I've become of the belief that I love
the word alignment. I think it's fantastic. And I would say that an aligned life is a purposeful life. Agree, and that you are spot on when you say that if we can start living and practicing just one of our values, that that will grow into a purposeful life. And so we're in alignment. We're in alignment. And I'm very content with the language that you use is different to me, but that we are of the same ethos
and spirit in what we're trying to share. But of course a language will be different because we're different people, right, We've had different experiences. You've gone off to be a monk, you know. That's something that in my head I think, well, wouldn't that be incredible to go and do that, although I can't see that happening anytime seen, especially being married and having two young kids. Need me, but you will
be informed by your life experience. I've been a medical doctor for or you know, nearly twenty one years now, seeing tens of thousands of patients. My view to this topic of happiness is informed by the tens of thousands of patients I've seen and their struggles. Right, So we're going to say it differently and you know, pulling together alignment and what you asked me right at the start, which is what are the you know, why is it we struggle so much with happiness and this idea of happiness.
Another exercise that I think is really useful for people that also helps them be more aligned. It's a two part exercise, right. I love it and I don't know if you want to try it on yourself. Actually, yeah, trying it? Okay, so the first yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. The first part of the exercise is right down. Or you can just tell me three things that if you did them each week, would give you
a deep sense of happiness. Okay. Yeah, So I'm not going to say stuff I already do, so just to clarify for everyone, because I already meditate an exercise, I'm not going to include those because they would be they are huge ones for my happiness. I'd say one of the biggest things is doing something fun and playful with my wife. So whether that's going to an escape room, or whether that's going to an assault course or like some sort of like fun outdoor activity with my wife
brings me a lot of happiness. So that's one of them, Okay. I'd say another one is spending time outdoors in nature in the sun. I'm going on a hike on Saturday. But that is something that I know if I did more of i'd be that would increase my happiness. And the third one would be spending even more time reading. I love reading and making notes and learning, and I do plenty of it, but I know I could always do more, So those would be my three. Okay, so
there's three things that. Okay, now, the second part of the exercise is called white You're Happy Ending. So fast forward to the end of your life. Imagine you're on your deathbeds looking back on your life. What are three things you will want to have done? So then it comes to I would say, you know, serving as many people as possible through the work that I do right now,
that's number one. The second one would be to have felt that I was able to purify my heart and my mind of ego, of envy, of jealousy, of any impurities that lie in my mind and heart. That would be my second one, and my third one would be that I was able to express compassion towards all the pain I saw and not create more pain. I mean,
that's lovely, so wonderful to hear. Now that the next part is you go back now to your first three answers, and the idea for people is, Okay, if you do those three things that you've stated initially weakly, will that get to you to the happy ending that you have already said that you want. And I've done it with so many people and they find it really useful because you know, for example, you know you've already mentioned you meditate and exercise, you want to do something fun and
playful with your wives, spend time outdoors and nature and reading. Now, if you do those things, let's say, those five things every week, does that get you to that happy ending where you've served others, where you've purified your mind of ego, and you've managed to practice compassion. You know, do you see those things as aligned? Yeah? Definitely, I mean especially and now, and that's why it's useful doing the activity
with sometimes things that I already do. Yes, I think that a lot of those elements of like personal time for meditation and practice, a lot of the work around the reading and study that I do, which is really powerful for cleansing the impurities within the heart. And even that play is so integral because that playfulness is what keeps it fun and exciting. And so absolutely, yes, there are lots of links in between. Many people when they do that exercise find that they're not aligned at all.
Like at the end of the life, they say, yeah, I want to have spent time with my friends and family. I want to have engaged in passions that mean the world to me. They say all kinds of things, and then you look at the three happiness habits and they don't match up at all. It's a fantastic exercise. There is a brilliant exercise and all. It's not about making people feel bad. It's about bringing awareness of their intention.
Like if you say you value your friends and family, yet you're too busy working, let's say to find time for them. Okay, that's okay, but you need to start making a small shift there because you ain't going to get to that happy ending otherwise. And so you know what I'm about, Jay, It's always about how can I simplify a message, simplify and exercise that people can actually do, reiterate and hopefully result on them living I guess, a more intentional and a happier life running the reason why
I love that activity and exercise like it's brilliant. By the way, it's absolutely fantastic. And I think everyone on the everyone who's listening and watching right now not only should go and get the book because the book is full of lots more activities and exercises like this one, but do this one with a friend this weekend. Because what you've explained so beautifully, there is the difference between
circumstantial and existential happiness. And so there are a lot of things we do every day because circumstantially, situationally, they make us feel better. But the existential core happiness, which as you describe, is alignment, contentment, and control that can only be measured when you look at the gravity of a moment like death. And when you're doing that in this activity, that's what you're putting it under a microscope and going, well, how is this affecting your existence as
opposed to your circumstance? Right, and that in and of itself is a really fascinating way of thinking. And I know that I don't do that activity, but I think about those questions very often, and for me for so long, I always ask myself that I'll sit there and I'll go, how is this going to make me feel when I'm dying?
Will I regret doing this or not doing this? And everything that I'm doing on a daily basis, and the commitments I make and the priorities I make are all dedicated to that purpose that I've committed to because I know that that's what brings me joy. And there are a lot of sacrifices with that, and there are a
lot of things that you forego for that. But I realized that health was so integral to your purpose, no matter what it is, that that's something you can't sacrifice in the pursuit of any alignment or contentment you chase, because if you're not healthy, then all of it falls apart. So, you know, I really love that activity and I'm so grateful you put that in many others in the book. Yeah. Thanks,
And you know it's something that I use myself. You know, I'm keen to I don't want people to feel that I haven't got it yet I'm not there yet, you know, I'm not alliance. That's okay, right, that is absolutely okay. I would guess by anyone who's listening to your podcast, Jay, I guess naturally would feel drawn to this sort of content anyway. They're wanting to live a more intentional and more purposeful life, right, So they're already that way in clients.
And it's not this thing, like I said, it's not this destination that you get to. It's a constant process of tweaking and then society life will pull you away. You know. I definitely have times where I work too hard and I'm not as present as I might want to be. Right, you know, just because I know what I should be doing, it doesn't mean I'm not human and I'm not susceptible to the same mistakes that many of us make. Jay, I've never felt this calm and
good and at peace with myself and my life. Like when I last spoke to you a few years ago in La you know about the Stress Solution book. I was a different person, like I really was. It was a different version of me. I'm just a lot more content these days. I've done a lot of work to rid myself off ego and the need for external validation. I've also really let go of this idea that I need to be right. I think for much of my life I define myself what are you right? Are you winning?
And letting go of that it's just made me happier. Like I'm no longer attached to being right. I'm attached to learning. I wouldn't even call it attached. I'm committed to learning right every day. Any friction that comes in my life, anyone that sends me a rude email, it's all an opportunity for me to go in. But I go what can I learn here? What can I learn about myself? How can I be compassionate about that other person?
And it keeps life fun and interesting? Right? It really doesn't. Yes, I feel calmer and content, But all kinds of on nickels and things that you know I used to get, they're just sort of going because there's less emotional tension in my body. I love that wrong and that's and by the way, on a personal level, that's just really beautiful to hear. I mean, you know, I think hearing that that's the journey you've been on in the last few years, and that's what brought this book about. Is
really beautiful and I want everyone to know. You know, we described the surface today, but rung And goes on to talk about a ton of great habits in this book, eliminating change, treating yourself with respect, making time stands still, seeking out friction, talking to strangers, treat your phone like a person, having maskless conversations which I love the sound of that. One, go on holiday every day, give yourself away.
These are beautiful, beautiful breakdowns in each and every chapter, with exercises, weird things to reflect on and think about. And rung And, I want to congratulate you on writing this beautiful book, Happy Mind, Happy Life. Ten simple ways to feel great every day. I want to ask you your final five, which are our rapid fire fast five round. So these questions have to be answered in one word
to one sentence. Maximum, let's go. Are you ready? I'm ready feeding trying to maintain that level of calm and contentment whilst whilst I get ready, all right, great, all right here we go. So here your final five question number one, what's the best happiness advice you've ever received, heard or given? Spend time with friends and family. Second question, what is the worst piece of happiness advice you've ever received, heard, or given? Do? What makes you feel good in the moment? Fascinating?
All right? Question number three? What is something that you used to value that you don't value anymore? An attachment to being white? Question number four, what is the kindest thing someone has done for you recently? Just my daughter coming back from school giving me a big hug, big smile, saying I love you, daddy. I don't think anything makes me feel as good as that, And that was super kinds I love that. I love that, all right. Question
number five. If you could create one habit that everyone had to do every single day in the world, what would that habit be, No question, A daily practice of solitudes beautiful everyone. That is doctor Rangan chategy. The book is called Happy Mind, Happy Life. It is out now. When you hear this podcast, make sure you go and grab your copy. Rangan. It has been a joy talking to you. I look forward to being in person with
you again. I congratulate you on all the self work you've done internally it sounds like, but also the amazing work you're putting out there into the world. And I appreciate you man, and I'm so glad that we finally got to do this and get together again. So thank you for your time and thank you for your energy. If you're watching or listening, make sure you tag me and Rangan on Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook, any platform you're using. We love to see what you're learning, what
you're taking away. There were so many great pieces of wisdom, nuggets of advice, and insight today and I want to make sure that we see those so we know what you're taking away. Thank you so much for listening to on Purpose. I'll see you again next time