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The most important question in science right now? What's the universe made of? Seventy percent of the universe is a mysterious entity called dark entergy, and we have no idea what it is. Twenty seven percent is another mysterious entity called dark matter. So bottom line was the universe made of nothing.
One of the most prolific, inspiring thought leaders of our time.
Deepak Chopra has been at the intersection of science and spirituality for almost a half century now.
You're sharing with us that the secret to our spiritual success is hidden within the use of AI.
I started playing with Chatchipt, Perplexity, deep Seak, I started actually arguing with these AI services. All the chat bots started supporting my argument based on the prompt. So I realized that even AI has selection bias, which has a gender bus, which has a racial bus, even a scientific bus.
There's such a fear right now around AI, especially its ethics and bias.
AI in principle could cause human extinction. Technology is way ahead of our spiritual evolution. That's a bit dangerous combination. There's a critical mass well people shifting in consciousness. We are in trouble. The number one health and wellness podcast.
Jay Sheety Jay Shetty Jet Deeper Top. It's so great to have you back on purpose after six years. I want to start off by saying that I was so grateful that you were one of the first people I met when I moved to New York in twenty sixteen. I was working at the Huffingham Post. We had multiple interviews there. You're always so kind, so gracious. I was and have always been a huge, huge fan of yours
and your kindness, your generosity. Your support over the years has been incredible, So thank you from the bottom of line.
Thank you for always being there for me too.
Of course, Well deeper, I think we're going to surprise a lot of people today because naturally, for the past few decades you've been guiding people towards spiritual success, and now you're sharing with us that the secret to our spiritual success is hidden within the use of AI. And not only that, you actually have deep up Chopra AI. We're going to put a code for everyone who's listening and watching to go and access this. You've actually created your own AI. But let's start with why has that
mission intersected? Why have those two things, spirituality and an AI intersectively.
Well, first of all, thank you Jef for having me. As you know, the last maybe two decades, I've been interested in the nature of what is fundamental reality? What's the universe made of? And how do we know what we know? And those are the two most important questions in science right now. If you go on Google, say what are the one hundred and twenty five open questions and science? The first open question in SI scienswys what's
the universe made of? And you would, so we know what the universe is made of, its atoms, molecules, force fields, gravity, etc. Well, for those who don't keep up with the science, seventy percent of the universe is a mysterious entity called dark energy, and we have no idea what it is. It's a force that's the opposite of gravity. So as we are speaking right now, the space between galaxies is moving faster than the speed of light, something called the cosmological constant,
described by Einstein. And then after he's described it, she said it's an embarrassment. I didn't mean it, or something like that, but he was actually right. There is some entity that is expanding the universe faster than the speed of light. We don't know what it is except it's the opposite of gravity. So that leaves thirty of the universe, which is basically remaining. Of that, twenty seven percent is another mysterious entity called dark matter. The reason it's called
dark matter it's invisible. Matter is normally things like this or your body or this piece of furniture. You can see it, you can touch it, matter material, but dark matter is invisible, so it's you can't see it. So what do we call it? Matter. It's responsible for most of the gravity in the universe. So if you didn't have dark matter, planets would spiral off and disappear into intergalactic space. You and I wouldn't be here. So now we have three percent of the universe that remains, which
is the atomic universe. All of that ninety nine point nine nine nine percent is invisible interstellar dust. We don't know what it is. We think it is hydrogen helium created at the Big Bang. So now we're left with two trillion galaxies, two trillion galaxies, seven hundred six tillion stars, and uncountable trillions of planets. According to the James Web Telescope, maybe sixty billion habitable planets in the Milky Way Galaxy alone.
They look for things like the Goldilocks on the temperature, gravity, electromagnetic activity. But based on that sixty billion habitable planets in the Milky Way galaxy, which if you multiply that by two trillion, then the universe is teeming with life as we know it. If a planet is too close to its Sun, it's too hot, no life. Too far away too cold, no life. But other factors like cosmological constants. With those calculations it's almost certain that the universe is
full of life like we know it. But that's two trillion galaxies. That's points zero, one percent of the universe atomic. But we also know that atoms are made of particles, and when you're not looking at those particles, they disappear into what are called waves. And if you are scientists, where do these waves come from? They use words like Hilbert space, this and that. Bottom line, the space that creates the universe and atoms is a mathematical space in
mathematical imagination. It's not a real space. So bottom line was the universe made of nothing? So, but you probably know the Buddhist idea form comes from formlessness. Okay, so the universe is made from nothing, which leads to the second question, which is called the heart problem of consciousness. Then why does it look like this? Why does it look like you? Me, this microphone, mountains, galaxies, rainbows, sun moon.
That's called the heart consciousness. So until now, most scientists have said that the brain produces consciousness in the same way as your stomach produces hydrochloric acid. But that's been questioned right now, So like now you and are speaking, people are listening to us. They're watching us, but there's no experience in their brain. There's no sound in their brain, there's no texture. All you sees neurochemistry. So how does neurochemistry give rise to this experience? No one knows. That's
called the heart problem consciousness. It's been there since Plato. Plato said there's a disconnect between the mind and the brain. But recently most scientists, speaking with their physicalists, they believe that the brain produces thoughts and feelings and emotions and desires and intuition and creativity and everything that we call experience, but they can't explain it. How do neurochemicals create this
that's called the heart problem of consciousness. The more I thought about this, and coming from our background and looking at Buddhist teachings and Vedanta. In Vedanta and Buddhism, the universe is a simulation. We have different words maya. Maya means illusion, which is a very interesting word because maya is the origin of the word matrix, of the word matter, of the word time, measurement, meter, music is all maya.
So the Indians, if, as they say jokingly, if religion is the opiate of the masses, then the Indians have the dope on It's okay, so they in the Indian philosophy and in Buddhist philosophy, the universe is a projection over deeper consciousness Brahman bramand or nothing, emptiness and form, nothing is everything. I started to think about this and I started to play with chat chipit. I became friends with Sam Altman, who's very interested in consciousness, and I
realized that actually the universe itself is digital. The difference between you, this sofar, this microphone, a mountain and a galaxy just a different combination of zeros and ones. Okay, that's the difference between this and this different combination of zeros and one. Now we have quantum computing, which says zeros or ones or zero's and one simultaneously. So it occurred to me and I came up with the mathematical formula based on traditions of the East. Infinity is equal
to zero, is equal to one. Nothing becomes everything, and that nothing is infinite and it's all one, and it's divine. It's the matrix. The divine is the matrix, and the universe is a projection of a digital workshop outside of space time. I started to play with that on the internet, got blasted by mainstream scientists, but then other scientists came to my side. I made scientists with the best friend became a cognitive scientist called Don Hoffman. You should have
him on your program. He wrote a book called The Case against Reality that the universe that we see is not real, it's a projection. Now in modern science they're saying it's a simulation. Then people ask, what's who's simulating way? Maybe a higher intelligence, maybe a cosmic computer, maybe an alien form. But they're guessing we are on the right track if you understand that Atman is Brahman and you are part of that, and you are a participant in
the creation of the human universe. So then I started playing with chat, ChiPT Perplexity, deep Sea and all these and I started actually arguing with these AI services because they have a bias there, their mainstream physicalist bias, and they would give me, what I thought, the wrong answers. Where does imagination come from? They point to a certain part of the brain. I said, no, that's the neural correlative imagination. Where does imagine s come from? Don't know?
So even the chat pot said so, I said, it doesn't know it. So I said, now, can you look at Bedaanta, can you look at Aveda? Can you look at Buddhist philosophy? Reframe the question that consciousness the ontological primitive of the universe. Matter is an illusion, it's a perceptual activity and consciousness And boom, suddenly a rebel occurred. All the chatbots started supporting my argument based on the prompt.
So I realized that even AI has selection bias. It's the selection bias as physicalist scientists who are basically, in my view, are superstitious. They believe that everything starts with matter and mind comes first. We believe the opposite, mind comes first, matter comes second, and even mind is a mortification of a higher consciousness. So that led to the book.
Event in met Sam who supported the book, and if you haven't seen his recent tweets on Twitter, other than his arguments with Elon Musk, he's talking about consciousness and we are onto something a major revolution in science which brings Indian spirituality right on the forefront.
I mean, our mind blown listening to you, because the process that just went into that journey you broke down for us requires not only a conviction in our Eastern philosophy traditions which experientially experientially which we have, but at the same time being able to debate AI. And from what I'm garnering here, you're saying that AI was actually or chat GPT in the other platforms, they actually allowed for your thinking to impact.
And because it's a large language model, it can explore things that normally are not explored. Say what did the Brahma Sutras say about this? AI will give you an answer because nobody's asked that question. But that data is there in Sanskrit, in translations by batst Guru scholars whatever. So there's a chapter in the book called the Art
of the prompt. So unless you know what question you're asking, you will actually AI will not access that information unless it's asked that con But now I can say, what did the Buddha think about this? What did Plato think about this? What did bitkin exchange think about it? The data is there, except it's not being accessed. Yes, so now do you train the AI to access that data? Yeah, it's brilliant.
And why do you feel though that now AI and spirituality coming together can actually lead to a discovery of consciousness? Why do you believe that that's the entry point.
Well, that is the ultimate goal. So air will never be conscious. Okay, but it's super intelligent. The thing that differates Homo sapiens from all other species. You know, up until forty thousand years ago, there were eight different types of humans, so more erectus or more habilists, Neanderthals, et cetera. They all had a language for three things. Food calls,
mating calls, and danger calls. Because that's how we survived sexuality, danger and food survival, including all the humans that in all animals have their own language, whales and dolphins and all, but it's all about food, sex, danger and danger. Then we, Homo sapiens, created a language for telling stories. There's a phrase in anthropology, to be human is to have a story. What is the mohammarad? It's the story. What is the remind? It's the story. What's the Bible? It's the story. What's
the qurn? It's a story. So to be human is to have a story. But we didn't stop there. We created other stories, like money is story. Okay, it was I'll fixture shows you give me a haircut too become too inconvenient, So here's the shell two increnion, here's this coin two increnion, here's this piece of paper two increnient digital, two digits zeros and once you have crypto. So we have created stories. We created something called Greenwich, meantime, latitude
and longitude money nation states. So I realized that actually what we call the universe is a human story, based on human experiences, based on human biology. There is no such thing as the real universe. So if you have, say a dragonfly who has thirty thousand eyes, what does the world look like to a dragonfly? You have no idea. What does the world look like to a bat which knows the echo ultrasound? A chameleon whose eyeballs swiveled on
two different axis, you can't even remotely imagine. So what's the real look of the world? Was the real nature of the world? According to Dante silly question, the world we experience is a projection of a deeper consciousness as filtered through the human brain, not through any other brain. In other words, it's a superposition. Adi Chankra said that a long time ago, and it's even there in the rig Veda. Can you believe it? And then all the
things about health and longevity. You know, there's huge revolution going on. But if you go to Yogawashesta says time is the consumer and we are its food. We metabolize time, and then he goes into the nature of time in consciousness. So I realize art, traditions and the knowledge contained in the Vedanta and all the sciences, including Vedic astrology, including all the different Vedic music mathematics, that is the key to understanding consciousness. And now I can use AI to
tap into that. And so this book, particularly and my AI, is not a large language model, because I don't trust them anymore. You see large language models even hallucinate. If they don't have the answer, they make one. So this is what we call a small language model. It has ninety eight of my books. It has my weekly column in the San Francisco Chronicle, my column in the London Times, and one question that I've answered every day for readers
for the last forty years. So the database is only mine, yes, and it will not mix up. And it's also what it is called a RAG model. RAG stands for retrieval, augmentation generation, which means if something is I have said which is obsolete, it'll delete that and upgrade the information. So you know this is a health coach, it's a mental coach, it's a guru, and it's a research assistant, and it's a personal friend. That's the basis of the book and deparkshop AI becomes its practical application.
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right now around AI, especially it's ethics and bias. It sounds like you see that from the perspective you're looking at it as well.
Yes, because listen Hei improperly used can create cyber warfare boys in the food chain. How how explain? It just sets off the technology. So if I'm good at it, I can get I can get into a nuclear plant and unleash a nuclear weapon. If I want to interfere with democracy or voting, create fakes and some of them are very good. You can't tell the difference and only going to get better. So AI, in principle could cause human extinction. That's the fear. And unfortunately our technological evolution
has outpaced our spiritual evolution or emotional evolution. You know, it's technology is way ahead of our spiritual evolution and our emotion. That's a very dangerous combination tribal minds, medieval minds, and modern capacities. Drones. I mean it's legit now to kill a head of state using drone technology. I was in Dows. Oh yeah, I mean what did what did the Israelis do? They got rid of all the Iranian
you know leaders how drones all run by air. So while I was in Davors and Zelensky was you know, his motorcate was going by, there were about seven trucks interfering with air signals on the internet, so somebody wouldn't kill him with a drone because the people are doing that. You know, it just happened with the Iran and it's happening with the Hooties. Even they have access to AI, you know, with drones, and they can you know, drown
an inter continental ballistic missile. So that's the danger. I sat on a committee with the UN and smer body else and they were talking about this doomsday and I was on Zoom. So while they were talking, I went on air and said, give me a way to prevent the misuse of air can be programmed the misuse of air through AI And it gave me two pages on how it could be done. What it is. Oh, it said, we can build in algorithms that will interfere with anything
that's diabolical or anethical. We can create algorithms, but then people have to agree, you know, and a lot of special interest groups who make money with war and terrorism on every side, they don't want that. They don't want peace. So okay, they don't want that because this is what gives them their power. But right now there's an initiative at the UN and I'm participating with that is AIR for Air for Humanity, Air for reversing climate change, A
for addressing chronic disease. And you know, when you really go into the depths of this with the AI, we can reverse climate change. There are five things we need to do. You can reverse climate change, you can create prosperity, you can resolve conflicts, can eliminate chronic disease. You can do gene editing, you can do epigenetic modulation, you can reduce inflammation. In other words, the time is coming where disease.
You don't have to die of a disease. You can choose the moment of your death through Masamadhi, which is what our tradition says. You know, you should live long, healthy and then die peacefully. Been there, done that, next incarnation and even plan that. Yeah, it gives you in all the information if you ask for it. You see some altman's quote, there.
Already some oldmen emitting from the front cover of Digital Dharma for those who are listening, that's Deveactorper's book. AI has the potential to help us create a more peaceful, just sustainable, healthy and joyful world. Digital Dharma shows you a path, some oldman seo of Open AI.
So why aren't we doing it? And what's holding us back?
What's holding us back?
We go based gangster leaders across the world. The world is run by male gangsters. Unfortunately, we can cause a spiritual revolution if you use air properly and not through government, maybe through human through people, grassroots who say we're fed up with this world of violence.
I love your ability to be able to oscillate between the AI conversation that's happening in the world and then the spiritual truths that have been there since time immemorial, mostly in these but also in the worst.
Yes.
Yes, but when you say it, it comes down to every technology that humans create or discover, we always have this in a conflict and war of how will it be used? And sadly it seems the ego.
See, if we had not discovered fire long long time ago, we won't have the human brain because once we started cooking food, everything about our biology change. We were able to absorb micronutrients the brain. The human brain evolved because of the discovery of fire. Had we not discovered fire, we won't have the Industrial age. We won't have the steam engine. Okay, of course, fire burnt down Los Angeles City, so fire is at destroyer city. But it can also
create a steam engine and revolutionize the industrial age. Historically, between eighteen eighty seven and nineteen oh three, which is not even twenty years, humans created the light bulb, the automobile, the airplane, and the telephone. So let's pretend you were shipwrecked in eighteen eighty five, you were rescued twenty years later. Twenty years later, when you saw the world, you won't
recognize it. You would expect horses and carriages. But now you see these machines moving along with horses and carriages. You see people talking on the telephone, you see people flying from one place to the other. Say what's going on? So that's a leapfrog of cultural evolution. The next leap frog is not any cultural, it's biological, which means that as we acquire this new knowledge and tap into the
wisdom of the ages, our neural networks will change. Right now, if people are listening to us or watching us, it doesn't matter the genes in their frontal cortex are being activated. If you and I were having an emotional conversation and somebody in Africa or China is watching it, their reptilian
brain would change. So what this technology is doing is going to leapfrog or biological revolution, and all the things that you heard about in yoga, extra sensory perception, knowledge of the future, memory of other lifetimes.
We will have access to that. Do you think that we have the ability to cope with that?
Well, if we don't we don't adjust, we become extinct. So you see, humans are different from every species. Only two things other than walking upright and wearing clothes. We use language, and now we have multi large language models and the two, and we have storytellers. But there's something even deeper. We are tool makers. Even in Stone Age, we have tools, but every tool has two things. A knife you can kill a person in surgeon's hands. It
fields you, so you can't get away from both. The other thing is once the technology is one, you can't take it back. It's like a child that's born. You can't return to the womb. So either you adjust, that's very Darwinian, you adapt, or you become irrelevant. So now how do we adapt? How do we cope? But not only how do we cope, how do we make it sacred?
I think that's the challenge that when you talk about grassroots, so many people today because they're less aware of how to use things for good. Most of us are consumers of what is created around us. As you said, we're having conversations with AI based on us not asking questions because we're unaware.
I asked, I went to AI, I said, solve the gaza problem for me create peace and prosperity in Gaza. Fifteen steps all very practical. Resolve the conflict, create abundance on both sides, make everyone happy. The technologies are there. Who's interested children in Gaza and children talk to the leaders, they're not interesting because this is how they get power. So unless there's a critical mass for people shifting in consciousness, we are in trouble. Yeah.
And the challenge is that a lot of us at the grassroots, most people are actually scared that AI is going to take their job.
Yeah, so there's a fear. They tell kids, and I actually, next time a common and show. I'll show you a video game that are created for children that gives them Brownie points and they can buy more video games if they breathe, if they do yoga, if they activate their vehicle nerve, if they use creativity. So you can take the mundane tasks for AI and you can unleash the creativity of the next generation.
Tell us more about that, how do we use AI for creativity rather than feeling like which jobs are should be worried and what should they Okay, so.
Let's look at the legal profession contracts. You can take care of that better. Than any lawyer. Okay. Now the lawyers then have to take care of society by looking at the constitution. By protecting the constitution, they'll have a lot of work, even litigation. Okay, because a I can't do that for you as effectively as a creative lawyer. AI can simulate creativity, but it cannot have fundamental creativity because air is built on algorithms, and creativity is breaking
the algorithm. That's what we call disruption. Okay. So actually, if we take even our children, we create video games for health, for longevity, for healing, for homeostasis. You know, when the calculator came out, people said, oh it's going to get you know, we won't need to do math. No, we improved on math. With AI, will will improve and improvise new theorems on math. Because even in math, you know Ramanujan, the great Indian mathematician. They used to ask
him where do you get your theorems from? And you know he wasn't Cambridge. He would say, the goddess is what he gives him to me, and they'd all roll up their eyes. Bertrand Russell thought he was crazy, but he was flummaxed by him. He didn't know how to handle this Indian guy who was in his twenties, and he was coming up with theorems that they couldn't prove,
but they were true. So, you know, with as we embark on this adventure with AI, we will also know the limitations of AI and how we can enhance our creativity with the tools AI gives us. But AI cannot have that creativity, right, It never.
Will, Yeah, because it's not conscious. It's not conscious. Yes, I think that's the question was. It was really interesting. I was being asked. I was at a panel recently and people were asking me whether I believe AI will ever have a soul. And my response was, I don't think AI will have have a soul, but I hope the people that are creating it have a soul. That's true because I think the challenge is that anything we create has the creator's flaws, yeah, and.
The creators weaknesses. And you know, my AI was asked on CNN, what did you have for breakfast? Is that I don't really experience hunger, I don't have thirst, I don't have sex. I'm not worried about death. I'm a machine. Ask me anything, but don't ask me how I feel because that's an activity of the soul.
Yeah, because I feel like that's also the version that we've seen made in movies and media, this idea that AI somehow gets to a point where it starts to but those are.
All just super intelligent but no soul.
Yeah, it makes a.
Lot of sense.
Another challenge I wanted to speak to you about was that a lot of people are feeling that AI and not feeling people have seen this AI has. The large language models have a racial and gender bias one.
Especially when I looked at medical research. Very interesting, All medical research is white males, not even white females, forget about all the rest of the world. So there are now movements to rectify that. But yes, it has a gender bus it has a racial bias. It has even a scientific bias because you know what we call selection bias in its answers. Because based on mainstream physical science, which is being questioned right now.
How do we then use large language models better for ourselves if we're people of color, women, what can you do in order to.
There are movements now. I'm working with the Indian Caribbean person from the Islands from Jamaica who's got a professorship University of Central Florida, and he's creating a whole research and AI based models that are inclusive rather than exclusive.
I hope that we start to see some shifting.
We are, Yeah, we are. You feel positive. I feel positive, notwithstanding the politics about the EI and this and that. You know, don't get involved in that. Just do what you need to do. And hope that at some point that people will see that this isolationist, prejudiced world is not is not a good survival strategy for anyone.
Yeah, why have we not been convinced of that yet? I feel like we've seen.
Fear, fear, fear of fear of being diluted in the diversity of the world. You know, people have very fixed identities. I'm white, I'm a close Saxon, I'm Catholic, or I'm Protestant. Don't threaten me. But and that's true of any fund of a list in any part of the world. I'm just giving you the bias here, but you know, we see that bias everywhere, and that is a dangerous thing because if you understand what it's called emergence, the science
of emergency, they say there's no problem. You cannot solve. If you have shared vision, maximum dousity, supporting each other's strengths and creating an emotional and spiritual bond, there's no problem. I learned that as a physician. If I had a difficult patient, let's say, difficult cancer patient, and all the cancer specialists say, we don't know what to do with it,
there's something in the medical profession called grand rounds. You take the patient, present the patient to everybody, not just the cancer specialists, endochronologists, psychiatrists, storytellers, humanitarians, even poets, and you come up with a solution. So when you have maximum dosity, shared vision, complementing everybody's strengths and create an emotional bond, you solve every problem. And that's what digital
technology can help us do. How you bring together a problem, you said, like the Gaza problem, or you bring together even poverty. How do we want to remove powart? Poverty and peace are connected, PA say, peace and prosperity. So give me the technologies to create this. Here now, if you go to digit you go to Deepark, Shopper dot A. You can specifically say I'm forty five years old, I'm ethnically an Indian, I lived in Britain for my lifetime.
I am now doing this and this. I have a problem sleeping at night, and not only will my AI give you a personal solution. You can say, give me a meditation to sleep tonight. It will give you a meditate. I'm having problem with my relationship. It'll ask you, what's the problem I'm not being heard. It'll give you a solution for your problem. So my AI is very personal for you. It's not just giving you information. What did
it take for you to make it personal? What did that require so that it's different to a chagibt for example. Lots of iterations, lots of it. And by the way, all the engineers are in India, so they also understand what I'm seeing. They're passionate about the project in Bangalore and they're as brilliant as any engineer anywhere. But they also understand the philosophy. Wow, so that's what made it.
Now it's in Hindi, it's in English, it's in Arabic because huge interest in the Arab world, which was amazing to me. And it's also in Spanish. But I think in two three months we are having it in China and Russia as well.
So let's say if someone has that sleep issue, what kind of prompts would you suggest that they use to get the best articles?
Who just said, hey, Deepak, I'm having a problem with sleep issues. And then it'll ask you, you know, what time do you go to sleep? Whatever? Then you can say this, what time do you eat? What time did you wake up? And it will give you some ideas. Then say to you do you want a meditation for sleep? And then take you to yoga and nidra sleep yoga or whatever.
And what about if someone has a relationship issue in they're coming saying I'm thinking about getting divorced from my husband, it will.
Talk you through it. It'll say, why is there a communication problem? Are you listening? Are you are you present in the relationship? You know? Are you asking yourself questions like what am I observing? What am I feeling? What do I need? How do I consciously communicate this need? It will give you GUIDs And then you say, can you give me a medication for conscious communication with my in my relationship and create a magication?
Can we use AI to find love?
Yes? How how will a teaching you how to be a loving person? You know, because that's how you fall in love. Yeah.
I always had this vision and AI allows for it. Imagine if we all had a coach in our pocket, yeah, which you could talk to it at all times. It's a health coach, it's a mental coach, it's a spiritual goal Yeah. And what are the mistakes you're seeing people make in using AI for personal growth or spirituality? What pitfalls or common challenges exist or blocks that exist.
I think most people think that solution is generic. It never is, you know, as a physician. Also, I had two patients, same disease, same diagnosis, same age, same doctor, same age, same treatment. One person lives, one person dies. So you have to figure out what are called the hidden variables, which is your life, you know, everything from eating, breathing, digestion, metabolism sensor. We experienced personal relationships biological too much. But the AI can ask you the right questions and it
can encourage you for the next prompt. Yeah.
I feel like when you talk about the need for this grassroots movement for all of us to turn because the.
Leaders, well, this conversation expands.
Absolutely, No, absolutely, I feel like the challenges we're so used to using chat, GPT and AI and everything for such basic questions, which is good too, It's.
Okay too, yea, why not? Yeah?
But I feel like, how do you get to that point where we've realized that the power of what exists in our hands with such as given example.
You know, I was, I came today and I just says in nineteen seventy and I had gotten married earlier, and my wife is pregnant, and I was an intern. The junior most person and the chief of medicine calls me and he says, you know, I have bad news for you. Your wife has a disease called talessemia. That's a fatal disease. I said, it's not possible. She's perfectly healthy, she is pregnant, and if she had this disease, she would be dead by now. So he said, come and
look at the cells under the microscope. Now, remember this is nineteen seventy. There's no Google, nothing. So I look at the cells and they look talasemia. But my wife is healthy. I can't figure it out. So I go to this is New Jersey, small hospital. I go to New York. I spent two days in the New York library looking for thalassemia and thalasmia trait. So thalasimia is a disease, and some people have the trade, but they don't have the disease because you need two parents to
have the same trait to get the disease. What do I discover that thalasimia exists along the exact route that Alexander the Great took to India from Macedonia. All the way to India, there's a people have thalasimia trait. So some ancestor of my wife was probably raped by a soldier two five hundred years ago, and that evidence is in her blood. It took me three days to discover that major discovery. You asked chat jeputy that question or
any large language model give you the answer in two seconds. Wow.
So the speed of what happened in that scenario.
Well, I was reassured that there's nothing wrong. But I also told my wife that some Greek was messing around with your great great great grade grandma. How does she react to that? Well, it's a historical fact. The footprints of history are in your genes. You know. There's not even a single break of life from the first organisms from four billion years to now. There's not a single break in the chain of existence, which is a miracle of existence America. Yeah, if there was one break in
the chain four billion years, you won't be here. We won't have this conversation.
Yea life market. I wonder how quickly we got you. You were saying like fire was almost one of the first technologies or tools we created. I wonder how quickly we got bored of fire. But I guess we didn't because it was.
So we see, this is so interesting about human beings that they get so easily adjusted to the miracle of existence. Why do we exist? Why are we here? What got us here? And you know, I asked, chatchigipit, you know what is currently the theory of creation? Big Bang? I said? Went back, what caused the Big Bang? For the first time? Pause, No cause can be ascribed to the Big Bang? And
I said, what happened in the plank epoch? The plank e park is tended to the power of minus thirty three seconds after the Big Bang when there are no laws of physics? Said what happened in the plank epark? Don't know? This is chat jipity? I said, why is the universe so precisely mathematically fine tuned for life, for consciousness, and for our being here don't know. I found twenty loopholes in the current cosmology of creation. Twenty loopholes. Then
I said, can you now reverse this? Can you begin with consciousness as non local as you know Brahman field of infinite possibilities that differentiates into experience. It hesitated for a split second, but then it pulled out all the data from rig Veda from here. From there I was blown away. So who have you shown this work to?
Who have you showned this? I now posts all this on videos on on Instagram, but Instagram has very short so I push your teaser and then I pushed them to YouTube and those who have the patients, they look at it and it's getting attention.
What about in terms of scientists and people like that, when you're having a conversation with Sam Altman and he's obviously fascinated as you see.
On board because he's curious, and then some scientists, not mainstream scienceists, but there's a scientists you should have him on your show. He's brilliant. His name is Don Hoffman. He's here at the University of California, actually is in Los Angeles, close by the University of California her mine.
So he for twenty five years total physicalist. And by the way, the genius behind his work is an Indian guy called Chatan Prakash who was professor of mathematics in Cambridge or Oxford or something, but now works with them. The two are amazing Chetan Prakash. So he struggled for twenty five years to prove because he's a brain scientist and he's a quantum physicist and mathematician how the brain
produces consciousness. Twenty five years later, one day he woke up and he said, you know, thinking how the brain produces consciousness is like Aladdin's lamp. You rub the lamp and the genie wakes up concious, up the old universe. So he gave up and he wrote a book, The Case Against Reality, which is a mathematical and quantum mechanical explanation for maya or projection. And he was vilified. I supported him. I have twenty five conversations with him on YouTube.
Then a bunch of scientists started supporting him. And right now he's a heart ticket in the world of science because if what he's saying and what chet and Prakashi is saying it will approve the entire scientific parady and it'll make it better. Because if the universe is an immersive experience, then v are xr MR immersive experiences, our technologies will extend our experience of virtual reality. We're already
in a virtual reality. So right now there are technologies extended reality immersive experience where you can take a person with, say, burns, and you can give them a VR session and the burns get healed, inflammation goes away. Who may exists already already autism a child and you teach it emotional and social skills by giving the child an emotional experience with the child actually having normal features and emotionally engaged, and
the neural networks start rewiring. So in about ten years you doctors may not give you a prescription for the pharmaceuticals. They're already talking about digitaluticals, metaceuticals, and the future we are experienced to treat heart disease, inflammation, cancer, autoimmune disease, eating disorders, autism. It's all happening right now. It is happening, and you can check it out on Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. I mean I had no idea.
Yeah, when I'm hearing about all of this is always it's like you're fascinated because you think about how much people's lives will improve one hundred. But I think every time there's improvement, we all so inherit all these new problems, right, you look at.
Because people are coming from fear. If they came from love, they would see the benefits of this. They're coming from fear.
Is it fear or is it a sense of just almost not knowing what to focus on because our education doesn't really create a directional like our education when you were saying earlier. Technology has moved so fast, but our understanding of the self has remained so correct, amateur. And when you look at the education system, the education system hasn't caught up with technology either, because the education system is still kind of trudging along. It is so when the education.
Education which used to be in the Indian nashrooms in the old day, you know where students would go and be under a spiritual guide or a teacher. It's missing.
Yeah, But what do we do because I feel like even the challenge that people have with chat, GPT or any platform is our education system doesn't teach us to ask good questions We're always told to give the answer. That's what we're fixating is result, reward the answer.
And so I do know answers, they're only questions, right.
But we're so bad at asking questions. Yeah, AI requires us to be brilliant at asking questions. How do we get better asking questions?
We have to teach people to ask questions, you know, and we have to teach them how to live the questions. But then life provides the answers, not the textbook. Life provides the answers, you know. As as you were speaking, I was thinking, just I don't know why it came to me right now. Chapter thirteen of the Lord Christians says, I'm the field, and I'm the nor of the field.
Field is shit, and then the nor of the field, the field is awareness, and it modulates itself as mind intellect ego, the five senses, the five motive organs, the five tanmatras, and the vital energy and the universe. I was thinking that one chapter has the key to reality. Okay, how do we now these biosensors which I'm wearing, they
are actually extending my knowledge of self awareness. But my body already knows, you know, if I'm if I'm doing something that I shouldn't be doing, I feel pain over here. If I eat the wrong food, I get in digestion. If I don't sleep at night, I'm messed up the next day. So my body is already the field of awareness. And it's a biosensor, it's a biomotor, and it's a biocomputer. The biocomputer is consciousness. The biomotor is the five motor organs,
the biosensor the five senses. Now with this technology, I can extend it. I'm also wearing a BCG with blood sugar monitoring, not that I have diabetes, but it can relate my metabolism to all this now and intervened right there through a video game or through a visual or through an auditory experience, or through some visual experience, I can do that. So actually, in the future, I'm really serious about this. And I met the R and D
chiefs of the biggest pharmaceutical companies. Say, you, guys, if you don't get into digital uticals, metaceuticals, immusive experiences, you'll be left behind. And some of these biggest pharmaceutical companies now they have thousands of scientists looking at these new technologies. Yeah, I mean, how do you get you said seventy eight plus.
Yeah, it's amazing, it's incredible your you're vibrant and energetic as I love what I do. Yeah, it's amazing. It comes across naturally. And you were saying that longevity obviously, as we've seen in the world, has become such a big talking not addressing the real luge solutions.
What is the real longevity solution? Consciousness as the regulator of your biology. Time is the consumer and we are food. How do we slow down the metabolism of time? How do you use every sense we experience to eel ourselves, whether it sound and now, Oh, you can go on on TPACT, but you can go in chat Chi too and say how do Mantra's work. It will give you, it will give you the right answer. Okay, do mantras
change genetic activity? Yes? They do. So this is a revolution right now because in the past you would say this is howcus focus. Here's the evidence what is happening in genetic and very few people are identifying that. But this technology will find those people. There's a scientist from India called Anirban Bandhubadha who's from Bihar. He went to IIT in some little place. There are many IITs in India,
So in a place called Monday in Himachal Pradesh. He's now the chief scientific officer for a very big outfit in Japan, and he's totally on board on consciousness and how it is. You know, the brain is like a computer interface. So the consciousness uses the brain to give you access to experience. Just like I can go on my desktop computer and I don't need to know how it works. I press Amazon dot com. It gives me
a way to shop. Yes, So the brain is like that computer interface, and these neural correlates a little symbolic, you might say, symbols that you can use to plug in to the bigger reality. And so I'm going to India just to meet this guy because he's brilliant, and he's in Japan, but he's questioning Nobel Laureates at the
moment and he's brilliant. Absolutely. And you see, you have to have a cultural background to explore all this because you know, when you speak to scientists who totally brought up in the materialistic paradigm reductionists, they roll their eyes, they said, what are you talking about? This is nonsense?
But what do you think it's going to take for those individuals to actually open up their minds.
And the science the science.
Do you think though, that we can even measure some of this with science, Like is it even possible to see?
You can't measure the experience, but you can measure the symbolic correlate of the experience as what is called the neural correlate of experience. You can see the pat what they call pattern recognition. Okay, so the brain has a pattern recognition to an experience. It's like your desktop with twenty or thirty or in this case infinite symbols that you can.
Plug into to get the experience right right. Fascinating, It is fascinating. It is fascinating the more because we have a common language. I can understand the ease with which you know, But when I think about people who don't have that, it becomes so hard to wrap your head around even the possibility.
Yeah, and ultimately still a mystery. You know, we know how to use you know, just like we know how to use computers without knowing what's happening in the belly of the computer that you leave to the engineers. But we can still use a computer that's what we need. You can fly a plane as a pilot without knowing how the airplane works. So that's all we need to use the technology because ultimately what we call consciousness is such an infinite mystery that in the end you have
to surrender to it. You know, the fifth Niama, which surrender to the divine each word surrender, because you won't be able to solve it. You know, what's his name, Freeman Dyson, one of the greatest physicists of all times, Princeton, before that Cambridge. He said, God is what the mind becomes when you can't figure it out, when it process, it goes beyond the threshold of your comprehension. You have to surrender to the mystery.
Yeah, what is the If someone's really interested in self realization, they're really fascinated by the conversation you're having.
My next book what is called awakening? Oh wow, okay, perfect? The Path to Freedom and Enlightenment. I'll come to you.
Oh please, I love that. Now I was going to ask you, what's the first question? They should ask ai?
Who am I? Who am I? Then they should go, you know, all the way like Romana Marsh, did you know am I the body or am I the awareness in which the body is a changing experience? Am I the mind? All the way this was. These days it's being called the direct method. But it was popularized by an Indian teacher called Atmanan Krishna Menan. But it's ancient. It's there in the Vedic literature. And right now it's been called the direct method, and yoga and all the
other methods are called the progressive method. Direct means you question, what is this? Well, the human construct is this is a glass of water? Okay, what else is it? It's an object, But before you can call it an object, it's an experience. Where is the experience happening? Not in the brain. There's no photo of this in your brain. Okay, So where is happening consciousness? Where is consciousness? Don't know? Why don't you know? Because it doesn't have a form.
So this is an experience happening in the infinite. The infinite is present in every finite experience. God is not difficult to find. God is impossible to avoid. It's in everything that you see. You need consciousness, and that consciousness infinite. So every finite experience is based on the presence of the infinite. This is the direct method. It's a reflection. It's called atma vichar, and it leads to what is called artma dshan. But that's very deep for both people.
Yeah, yeah, exactly which depact we have? Why not asked you today that I should have asked you? No, I think you asked me a lot I was going to ask I was gonna ask you GPT. Right now, I'm going to say what questions should ask you? I ask Deepak about AI and spirituality.
I'm doing this live and in real time. Yeah, not part of our original prep.
It says if you're having a conversation with deep and spirituality, you might want to explore how he viewsed the intersection of technolog consciousness, which we did, and it says, how do you see AI influencing human consciousness and spirituality in the coming years.
We talked about that.
I believe in your view, can artificial intelligence ever truly achieve consciousness or a sense of self awareness? You said no, So we talked about that. Do you think AI could be used to enhance spiritual practices such as meditation self awareness?
You said yes. We talked about that.
How do you reconcile the rapid development of AI with spiritual concepts of mindfulness, presence. Yeah, we've Yeah, it feels good.
We did a good job.
I'm trying to see if there's anything that we missed here that we didn't ask you. No, it's pretty farn Yeah, it's pretty amazing. It's pretty phenomenal. But debag, I'm always in awe of how you've found a way to take the teachings of the East so far and so deep and now to take it all the way through to AI.
And this is India's contribution to the words really is we never conquered through violence, but our culture is taking over the world, whether it's Bollywood, or it's cuisine, or its fashion, or its philosophy or its spirituality. This is the way to influence the world. As you know, there's a Sanskrit expression bars they've kam the world is our family. Yeah. Absolutely.
The book is called Digital Dharma. Of course, head over to Deepatupra dot Ai will be putting a code for anyone who wants to use it. As well. As always, you've blurned my mind, You've expanded my consciousness.
You make me proud of the culture.
I was fortunate enough to study and deeply look at in my time and thank you so much for doing all the incredible work you are and peace for.
Going up in here and leading the way for your generation. Thank you so much, thank you.
If this year you're trying to live longer, live happier, live healthier, go and check out my conversation with the world's biggest longevity Peter Attia on how to slow down aging and why your emotional health is directly impacting your physical health. Acknowledge that there is surprisingly little known about the relationship between nutrition and health, and people are going to be shocked to hear that, because I think most people think the exact opposite.