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If you can be triggered, it means you're walking around with a loaded gun. Seventy percent of the emotional stress that we feel on a daily basis comes from our body being malnourished. Dave Asby New York Times best selling author. He's the founder and CEO of Bulletproof Coffee. We've all been shamed for being lazy. Talking about laziness, do you only think worse is talking about death. We are living in a world today where you can measure as twenty
years younger than your calendar age. You don't have to get old.
Before we jump into this episode, i'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me. The best selling author and post the number one health and wellness
podcast and Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that I'm curious about biohacking, about becoming better, about
improving my energy, my focus, my strength. And there's a guest that we've had on twice before who I'm so excited to have back on because he is the father of bio hacking, someone who has brought this movement to the fore, helped create so many products, insights, books that
have guided us through this. I'm talking about the one and only Dave Aspury, entrepreneur, four time New York Times best selling author, and host of the top one hundred podcast, The Human Upgrade formerly Bulletproof Radio, which is more than two hundred million downloads. Dave is the co founder of Bulletproof Coffee and a leading voice in the movement to
take control of our own biology news. Outlets like The Today show, CNN, Wired, Good Morning America, Fast Company and many more call him the father of bier hacking, and over the last two decades, Dave has worked with world renowned doctors, researchers, scientists, and global mavericks to uncover the latest, most innovative methods. And what I love about what Dave does is he makes what could cost a lot of
money extremely accessible, relevant, and practical. And he's doing that in this new book called Smarter Not Harder, The Biohacker's Guide to Getting the Body and Mind you want. Go and grab a copy of this right now. We're going to put a link in the caption so you can order it while you're listening to us. Welcome back to the show, Dave Aspery, Dave third time.
It's always such a pleasure to get time in person with you.
I know me too. I really love seeing it, and I said it to you today. I see you like you know, whenever we're connecting, maybe it's a conference or obviously on the podcast. You look better and younger and thinner and healthier every time over the last few years. And I think that's testament to everything you say working and everything you're saying. You're practicing it. And honestly, I saw you today and I was just like, who's this
big bright light in my house? Like think, you know, it's really special to obviously practice what you preach, but to actually see the benefits you must feel great too.
I mean, I feel amazing. I wrote a big book on longevity that I published a few years ago, and I went really deep. For twenty years, I've been running a nonprofit and just working in that field, but I went really deep, and I started doing this stuff more aggressively. And I am now, let's see, eleven years younger than
my calendar age. And last week I just got some gene therapy that'll take another nine years off my measured age, So I should test to be about thirty years ars old, even though the calendar believes something different.
What is that measuring? So I've heard people talk about measuring the age before. How is that calculating? Obviously we know how your calendar age marks, but how are they calculating a biological age? Like?
What does that look like?
What are the processes?
You draw a little bit of blood and then they look at something called DNA methylation about eight hundred thousand different data points and you can say, well, normal people have this much methylation in this pattern, but people who are younger look this way. So if you take two people's blood, you should be able to tell their age, but if they take my blood, they get a much younger age. So this is now the gold standard for
measuring how old you are. There's other more affordable tests like biome has an age that's based on a lot of things that are happening in your gut, back tire, and in your body. And then there's old fashioned blood telomere tests that don't work very well.
So yeah, don't trust those ones. You may feel like you're ten years old a bit, but that's not accurate. Well, I want to dive into this new book. There are so many chapters that really stood out to me as well going and I picked out some lines here that really kind of hit me. This one I thought was huge.
And I love how you start the book on laziness and you talk about tapping into the power of laziness, and I was just thinking, this is so true because whenever anyone's trying to shift their health, whether it's biohacking, whether it's mental health, whatever it may be, laziness seems to be like this big elephant in the room. Right, It's like that thing that slows you down, it makes you lax. It feels like it's negative. But you say you're not lazy, your body is, and you talk about
tapping into the power of laziness. Tell me how you do that and what does that mean? Because I think a lot of you're gonna make a lot of people happy today.
I will, But even talking about laziness, the only thing worse is talking about death. I mean people they don't want to do it. So when I would do an Instagram post about laziness, people would just not watch it because like, I don't want to face that. And we've all been shamed for being lazy. There's that coach it's like, don't be so lazy. Run around the field again, and the teacher you know you're not performing, or your parents, so we have all this shame about it. The reality, though,
is that your body has an operating system. I call it the meat operating system, and a lot of spiritual work is actually accessing that and it has a very strong desire to not waste energy, and that is a sacred thing.
Right.
Imagine if we had two people, and one of them says, working hard gets results. And I said, all right, guys, go dig a ditch. And one of them says, I got my shovel, and the other one says, I got a tractor. Okay, the guy with a tractor was done in twenty minutes and the other guy works for three days. And we somehow believe without thinking, the virtuous guy is the guy with a shovel because he worked hard, and
we're unconsciously believing that working hard gets results. So we shame ourselves when we don't work hard, and sadly, when we work hard and we don't get results, we start feeling like victims, which is really toxic. We all know people work really hard and don't get results. Maybe it's because we have a belief system in there that doesn't work. And when we say, well, couldn't I do this in an easier way, we start feeling shame. Now it's not okay to do it the easy way, because the virtue
comes from the struggle. But in the world that we live in, the virtue comes from getting it done and understanding that you will always have a desire to be lazy and think about it. You wake up and you say, all right, I could go to the gym, or there's a couch and there's donuts and Netflix. The couch is always going to look sexier, and we start, well, I should want the gym, No, you shouldn't. Your body really does want the extra energy from the donuts and not
using any energy in case there's a famine. So embracing that. Your motivation from your body is to save energy and there's nothing wrong with that. So then how do you use that to motivate yourself. That's how to hack laziness. Well, if you go to the gym, let's say you're going to do cardia, go to span class. If you did an hour a day, five days a week, that's aggressive. You're going to improve after two months provement in your fitness.
If you do the lazy way, the thing I write about and smarter, not harder, you're going to spend fifteen minutes a week you will not sweat. That's the amount of time he's been brushing your teeth. By the way,
you'll improve by twelve percent, six times more. So you wake up and you say, today I'm going to save fifty minutes of not working at the gym because I'm going to do it better, And all of a sudden, it's really motivating because the body says, I get to save energy at the gym, and then the body aligns its motivation with what your mind wants, and then the resistance fades. And it's a really important thing. It's something
that I've never seen written about anywhere. So use the savings of time, the savings of energy to motivate yourself. But you know who does know about this, big food companies. They will send you a twenty five cent coupon and oh look, I save twenty five cents because to our body, saving money feels like a lot more than it really is. Right,
So it's about an unconscious view of reality. So since we know our body does that without our knowledge or permission, let's just use it to our advantage instead of against us.
Yeah. Absolutely, So using a fifteen minute workout per day, no no, no, no, no, Using a fifteen minute workout.
Five minutes, three times a week.
Five minutes, three times a week, how is that having a twelve percent change?
Well, maybe working hard doesn't get results when it comes to exercise, And I want to be really clear, the ability to work hard is necessary for you to get things done in the world, but working hard without the right tools is a fool's errand and one of my companies, it's a franchise. We're about to be over about thirty locations signed, so we're opening across the country. It's called Upgrade Labs. You can go to own and Upgrade Labs dot com and open one in your neighborhood. And we
have the technology to do this. It uses artificial intelligence, and it causes you to move slower than you want and then way harder than you really really want to, but only for twenty seconds. And then here's the trick. As soon as you're done, you take some really keep breaths and it guides you with the AI to say it breathe deeper, and it brings your heart rate down. So what your body really responds to is really strong stimulation like a tiger was gonna catch you, and then
a feeling of safety and calm. When you have enough minerals, you have enough nutrients, it says, oh, I guess I should improve my performance. But if you go to the spin class, okay, the tiger chases you on the first sprint and then you keep running and then you sprint again, and you keep running, and the body believes I'm being hunted and it doesn't get away. And if you're combining that with a low calorie diet, oh there's a famine. And I'm continuously hunted for an hour a day, no wonder.
It's not going to improve. It doesn't have any energy to improve. It's just stressed. So the precise dose of exercise, it matters so much. And the liberating thing. You're gonna hate me for saying this. So you notice I'm in better shape than for twenty minutes a week is my entire workout regimen. And I'm like, I'm doing all right.
You're stacked. Yeah, that's epic, man. And you said it on page twenty one. You said your body does not care how much time you do something hard. It cares about how quickly you do something hard, how hard it is, and how quickly it returns to baseline. There you go, page twenty one. Is that is? And that resonated with me a lot because and we'll talk about this later on. I don't want to get into it now, but you talk about this in the book as well. Why the
infrared sauna and why cold plunges. Kind of that explains exactly that process, especially if you're doing both back and forth and you think they're getting in the cold for you're like, oh, I'd have to sit in there for a long time, but it's actually how long is it uncomfortable? For?
Right that where it's actually working, because you're saying once it becomes normalized, Once anything becomes normalized, whether it's spin class, whether it's sitting in the cold, or whatever it may be, it's now not having that effect.
It doesn't work. In fact, if you got in a normal warm bathtub and slowly cool the water, you would have no benefits from doing that. And instead it's that you got in and it was a rapid drop in temperature, and then you got out and the body warmed itself up again, and it's teaching the body that it is safe to warm itself up, and then it becomes better at creating heat. If your body's better at creating heat,
it means your metabolism works better. And so we've unpacked all of this using machine learning and artificial intelligence, and today most people they buy gym memberships and they don't go. There's four hundred million dollars a year of ghost memberships where people pay and never show up because well, if I have the membership, I might show up, but the lazy impulse of the body wins because the gym doesn't have a good return on investment of your time.
Wow.
And I'm not saying you shouldn't work out, No, Yeah, And if you go to the gym, awesome. I enjoy that as well, But I'd frankly rather to go to a yoga class in my spare time. And then you can get the muscles in about three to five times less time than going to the gym. You get the cardio I don't know, fifteen minutes versus five hours a week. I don't know the ratio there, but it's crazy and it's much better at cardio anyway. And so all of a sudden you're saying, wait, I got my strength, I
got my cardio. And that was what led me to create Upgrade Labs because people want to come in and do this, and what do you do with the extra time? Well, how about we train your brain with neurofeedback. How about we train your stress response so you can be more resilient when things are weird at work or at home, or things like that, or how about we just make it so your body recovers better than it ever did. And what we're dealing with now is a world full
of stress and never any recovery time. So let's use technology to handle the easy stuff like muscles and cardio, and then let's take the extra safe time to make our brains better and to make our stress handling better. Absolutely has changed my life.
Have you got one in La Upgrade Labs.
There's one at the Beverly Hilton, although the hotel is about to get renovated. And there's one in Santa Monica underneath Arnold Scharznaker's office. Oh. Absolutely, yeah, I need to come in.
I didn't. Yeah, this is I didn't realize. That's awesome.
Yeah. In fact, the first one opened eight years ago in Santa Monica. I've been working on this for a long time before we decided to let anyone open a business at Upgrade Labs. And part of this is it's a global movement now, biohacking it's a thing. You go to Latin America, you go to Japan, it doesn't matter. There's biohacking all over the world. And it's expensive to build a million dollar lab like I did at my house with all this advanced tech. So what if we just made it available for everyone.
That's awesome. I can't wait to check it out. Yeah, all right, let's dive back in. There's a couple of things that you talk about. So we talked about laziness. One of the things that you talk about in the book is removing friction. So you have these six steps to energy success, and I'll let people get the book
to dive into all of them. I don't want to go through everything, but you talk about removing friction, and I think when you dive into that, I was like, that's the right word, Like, it's friction that we experience. What are some of the steps or some of the highlights that you see of like removing friction. What does that look like.
When you think about something that you want to do. Oftentimes it's the little things that feel really big because your body is creating resistance. It's like, don't waste energy. There might be a famine. Don't waste energy. So if you can't find your gym shoes right because you're not organized right, and there's a lot of things that we do that make it so that there's many steps, and each step is a decision, so you remove decisions to
make it really easy. And a big source of friction is you wanted to do it, you went to the gym and you didn't get results. One of the things that's holding you back is that either you're exposing yourself to toxins that lower your testosterone, things like extra plastic BPA, or you're just lacking minerals. And right now we have an epidemic of people who just don't have enough minerals. Our food used to be full of minerals because our soil was full of minerals. We've been kind of strip
farming the land. So even if you're eating plants that are supposed to be high on iron, they're probably not because the soil doesn't have iron anymore. And when you get enough minerals in the body, then you send a signal through your exercise that says, hey, improve. The body says why I wanted to improve, But I have this big sticking point. I don't have enough zinc and copper. I can't improve, So then you just feel stress. So one of the things that's really helped me lean out
is I focus very heavily on my mineral intake. They're the least sexy supplements on Earth. And to make minerals go where they're supposed to go, we need something called vitamin DKE and you can go to Vitamin dake dak dot com and it's there. It's about twenty bucks a month for what it takes to do this. It's a combination of vitamin D, vitamin A, vitamin K, and a
special form of vitamin E and those things. When you take those in combination with a broad spectrum mineral supplement on the same site, your body suddenly has the power to build bones and to build muscle and make energy, and your focus can improve. And then I put the trace minerals that are just broadly lacking for all of us in my new coffee brand called Danger Coffee. So the idea is, it's easy. You're doing coffee every day probably anyway, and you end up going, wow, something different.
It feels different in this and it it's called Danger Coffee. By the way, You're gonna like this because who knows what you might do. You know, you might finally ask that girl out, you might start a company, you might start a podcast. The idea is, I love that you can handle it now because you've got the energy and minerals are the key.
And why are the minerals you talked about? This is like we always talk about supplements, yeah, talk about vitamins. We don't hear about minerals as much. And you make that point in the book. Are those the full minerals that you're saying the dak and special form of E like those are the.
Those are vitamins? Yes, they are the fat soluble vitamins. And each of those direct minerals to go to the right place in the body. And in the minerals there's macromnerals, things like magnesium and potassium, and there's trace minerals like zinc and copper and manganese, and then there's alter trace minerals that are present in Earth's crust and you need a little bit of those. So there's in the coffee there's fifty four different kinds of minerals at super tiny traces.
And in the supplements you take, it's three pills to get enough minerals, just enough minerals in your day. That's why on a pill thing that has vitamins minerals, there's not enough of anything in that And when you do that. Those are the first two most important, foundational and affordable supplements that you need to take before you do be vitamins, and I've formulated neotropics and advanced anti aging longevity things.
I love doing that, and I take those two. But the last thing I would ever stop taking would be vitamin DKE and minerals one on one, because they're foundational to everything else your body does, whether it's meditating better, whether it's running faster, whether it's thinking better, or just staying calm in a stressful situation. Without minerals, your body cannot do what it's trying to do.
Yeah. No, I couldn't agree with you more. I've definitely we've talked about this before, and I've definitely had periods in my life where I was so low on minerals or vitamins of course, which are then impacting the minerals, where I'm like, wait a minute, I'm sleeping right, I'm working out, I'm eating right, Like what is going on? And so often I think we make it a mental challenge where we're like, oh, maybe I'm dealing with something, and actually what you realize is your body's just not
dealing with stress. And now it makes it feel like everything's mental when it's actually biological and chemical.
You said it, So my body's not dealing with stress right now. I believe that half and maybe seventy percent of the emotional stress that we feel on a daily basis it comes from our body being malnourished.
Yes, I agree. Yeah, And then it feels like experience that.
Okay, yeah, so me too, and it feels like it's your mother in law or your boss, or like it's someone else's fault, or maybe it's you and your mind is running in circles. Well, when the body feels like, okay, there's not a famine, I've got everything I need. All of a sudden, things that felt like everest, Oh that's just a fool. I could walk up that no problem, and to create a feeling of piece in your tissues and then do the hard work on the mental and
spiritual aspects of meditation. It's a lot easier to work on those when your body's working. But if you're constantly feeling that what your body's telling you because it's hungry, is you, and it's a flaw or it's something to work on, you can spend your entire life, trying to deal with your emotion, not knowing that it's what's on your plate that's causing them.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I want to fully double emphasize that that is so true and so real, and I think so many of us are climbing up a steep hill trying to solve the wrong problem first, and this way round's going to make all of it much easier. I think you're spot on, and I'm so glad, so glad that we address that. I wanted to dive into this one, like for everyone who's listening and watching, the book goes into depth into exactly the minerals, exactly the
vitamins you need. Like I want you to know that the book's giving you a breakdown, and so make sure you grab the book so that you actually get all their insights. I just want to give you the breadth of the inside that Dave has so that you're like, oh, wait a minute, I need to work on that. I need to work on that. Something you talk a lot about is picking a target area and tracking it. And
you talk about these core target areas. You talk about strength, cardiovascular fitness, energy, metabolism, brain function, and stress resistance and I've found that that's probably our biggest mistake when it comes to our health, is we either are measuring nothing, we're trying to measure everything. You nailed it, right, Where should one start, Like, how does one I guess intuitively or data wise know what they are missing right now?
Because I feel like most of us don't know. Most of us live quite unconsciously, and we may be feeling a bit tired, we may be feeling a bit of body pain, but we're not really that aware of what the challenges and what we need.
I have a lot of data on this because we ask people this when they come into every labs, and that was one of the things that inspired me to structure the book this way. And it's kind of funny. The only people on earth who are going to say when they wake up in the morning, the first thing they want, I want to be healthy today. There are people who are like me. When I weigh three hundred pounds, I had chronic fatigue syndrome and arthritis and massive brain
fog and I was a wreck. So being healthy was a top priority for me. And you might get there when you're seventy five right as well. I just wish I was healthy. But when we're reasonably healthy, health is number seventeen on the honeydeal list. I want it. And what's really motivating us oftentimes from our body is we want to be powerful, we want to be energetic, we want love in our life, and those things they trump health. So health never gets enough priority. And what does health
even mean? Most people can't tell you. So I broke it down into those five or six categories, and okay, what are you going to work on first? And every person is individual, So where are you today? And then what's your first goal? And everyone says, well, I want all of those, but pick one, And in fact I encourage you in the book to pick two and really think about it. And when people come and we actually use a conjoint analysis survey and like we go through
data to help you figure out your goals. But in the book, I teach you how to do it. So if your first goal is you know what, I noticed that I'm weak, I can't hold on to things line, my grip strength is gone, I don't have the muscles I want. Okay, so you're going to focus on muscle first, or like a lot of people, I'm stressed all the time. And my brain doesn't work. I'm going to focus on
my brain first. So then you go to the section of the book on brain and I list all the technologies and techniques, whether they're free or cost a couple hundred bucks or cost thousands of dollars, that work really well to bring your brain back online. And when you do that, your muscles will work a little bit better as a side effect. Right, So maybe that was it. First, I want my brain, then I want my muscles. But someone else could be totally different in their desires. I
want to be able to run a marathon. I just need the endurance to walk up the stairs because I can't take care of my kids. Stuff like that happens all the time. So you go through the book and say, okay, this is my goal, and then there's a variety of technologies that will support that. And some of them I say technologies, they're just techniques. And if it's muscles, picking up rocks is the entire history of building muscles for humans.
We concentrate the rocks into kettlebells now, but they're still rocks. And then for endurance, it's run away from tigers, like you could run away from a slow tiger or a fast tiger. And that's all of exercise. Well, with machine learning and AI, we are doubling the amount of knowledge of biology that we have every seventy three days. There's so much magic happening right now that you can use this new knowledge that your doctor is probably never going to know, and you can use that to say, oh,
I can do this in a lot less time. So then you get your muscles back and your brain works better. You get your brain back, and then you have the energy to do the muscle work or to do the endurance work, and then say, I'm going to work on these stress management techniques. And you have so much wisdom that you've offered people on dealing with stress and the
meditation side of things. And there's a couple chapters towards the end of the book where I talk about, you know, spiritual hacking, which on its face is a bit offensive, I admit it, but.
It came from a good place, it did.
And the idea here is what would have happened in Tibd or in India or an apoll or place like that. Is Okay, we have a cave, and you can go to the cave and twenty years later you're going to be enlightened. And you could call that fast path. But most of us have other things that we want to do. So how do we get the maximum amount of meditation
benefit per minute? Like hurry, meditate faster. It's an oxymoron, except if you can say, well, I'm going to do breath work with my meditation, and studies show that your brain gets into these states more quickly, then maybe you should consider finding the kind of breath work that works for your body, because for every ten minutes of work you do, you might get into the state faster. And
for some people say, well that's not okay. The Dalai Lama years ago offered one hundred thousand dollars reward to neuroscientists who could help him get into a special esoteric state. He says, it takes me four hours of meditation to get there, and I don't have four hours. If you can get me there in an hour, I'll pay you one hundred thousand dollars. Okay, this is possible. Today I run a neuroscience clinic called forty Years of Zen, and in five days people have the brain waves of someone
who spent twenty years in the cave. And I've spent six months of my life with the electrodes glued to my head, meditating every day with a computer teaching me how to not do it wrong, and for me, that was faster. But I also did five years of Art of Living breath work every single morning because I found it worked better than just sitting and meditating, which I
also did every morning. And I want people to understand any of those approaches is better than not doing it, and you've got to find the one that works for you. And there's a list of exercises in here, including the reset process, which is one of the most important things I teach.
Can you woke us through this?
The reset process is something that I pioneered with the Neuroscience practice because you can measure when it works and what you do and the whole recipes and the book for it. But what you're doing is you're finding something that is a trigger for you. And I want to be really straightforward. If you can be triggered, it means you're walking around with a loaded gun. You need to unload the gun. It's not everyone else's job to not make you shoot them. It's your job to say, I'm
not carrying a weapon anymore. So you find something that triggers you, and you sit and you think about that feeling, and it's usually something will pop in your head. You were bullied, something my parents said, someone cut you off in traffic, It doesn't really matter. Something's gonna pop in your head. Say okay, I'm going to run the reset
process on that. So you sit the person who made you angry down across from you in your mind's eye, yeah, visually, and you're also in your mind's eye you imagine some sort of infallible deity. Some people use God or Jesus or Buddha or you know, any of the deities that you like, or it could just be you know, a light bulb that's always right. It doesn't matter, but this is your double checking thing. And then you sit there and you actually say, you did this and it made
me feel this way. And then you tap into how bad you felt and you actually turn on the bad feeling, like what you want me to actually read? Yes, I want you to feel it. And then once you're sure that you've really felt the bad feeling, you might have tears in your eyes. I mean, it might have been a big thing. Then and this is the key that's missing from a lot, even of older literature. Before you work on letting it go, you have to find gratitude. So you find one thing. It doesn't matter how big
of a gratitude is. You just need a spark of gratitude and say, oh, here's one good thing that happened, and all of a sudden, that flips a switch in your brain, and then you can step into the F word called forgiveness.
And forgiveness everyone's mind, right, Yeah.
And the reason I called the F word is a lot of people I'm not going to forgive that person. They wrong to me. You don't have to tell them you forgive them. This is just you unloading the weapon. This is you no longer being triggered, right, And then you look at it from the other person's point of view, and you realize, maybe their mom was mean to them, you know, maybe they didn't know. Maybe the guy who cut you off in traffic was on the way to
the hospital to see his daughter being born. You just don't know, right, And you start looking at that and all of a sudden, because you did gratitude first, you feel your heart open and you go, oh my gosh. And when you're done, and sometimes it takes neuroscience or a facilitator or some coaching. But when you're done, you can look at someone who wronged you greatly and all you feel is peace and love and you can no
longer be triggered. This is very important because what we normally learn to do is to say, well, I know that every time the situation comes up, I'm going to feel triggered. I'm going to notice that I'm triggered, and then I'm going to take a deep breath and I'm going to choose to behave like an adult. Hallelujah for doing that. We all need to do more of that. It's just biologically expensive because it takes a lot of effort and time and focus. What if there was no trigger?
So the reset process lets you turn this off at a very deep and profound level, and when you're done, you can look at your greatest enemy and you can say, I love you, I forgive you, we are one, and you are done for the rest of your life with that trauma. And I have done this on every single trauma that's ever happened. I've I had a very successful conscience on up playing. In the last two years, I
had an employee, embezzel money. I've had people try to ruin my reputation, all of it around the reset process on it, and I'm absolutely at peace with it. And to be able to get there running, I mean you run at a very big level, so do I. And the amount of stuff that comes at us no one's ever going to know is an enormous thing when you're leading millions of people and making the world a better place.
And to be able to do that without the constant stress and the constant tension and the constant questioning in your mind, that all comes from unresolved forgiveness. So the reset process in the book is how do you get there most quickly? And you may say, I don't want to do that. That sounds awful. Do some emdr that's another way to get to a similar state. But this process is so powerful and it leads you to amazing spiritual states where you no longer are carrying a grudge
because I'm smarter and harder the power of laziness. How expensive is it for you spiritually, at a soul level to carry a grudge against someone who wronged you for the rest of your life? Life is too precious to waste it that way, And this is the fastest way I've found for people to learn how to let go of something. And I put it in a book. You say, well,
I thought that was about exercising biohacking. Look, the biggest thing you can do and the hardest thing you can do, is to let go of something that your body is holding onto because it thinks it's keeping you safe. And I thought I was just worthy of including in the book.
That's what I mean by spiritual hacking. Find the technique that lets you fully let go of something so that you can be present with your family, with your friends, with your loved one, and then you can be present for your mission, or maybe you can find your mission in your purpose.
Yeah, I think it's so well said. I'm so glad you included it because I think for the sake of simplicity, we talk about our body, our mind, our soul or spirit or whatever we call it. But the truth is that it's so interconnected in that as you were saying, if you can't let go of an emotional disconnect or a missileone n chances are that's going to lead to your eating habits, and then that eating habit is going to link back to a lack of that spiritual cleansing
or detoxing or whatever that may be. So we're kind of just stuck in this vicious cycle. And I wanted to talk to you about that because using that spiritual hacking the other way and going what are some of the blocks that are created physically because of the lack of letting go? What are some of the habits that you've seen developed physically in our diet, in our you know, in our physical practices because of a lack of that.
I believe that every cell in your body has its own small consciousness, and even inside the cells, the mitochondria, each of them is an ancient bacteria, and ancient bacteria have a consciousness. It's a pretty slow, dumb consciousness. Actually it's a very fast consciousness, but it's it doesn't have
much awareness. But when you have billions actually for those things, almost trillions inside the body, they function as a distributed consciousness for your meat, for your hardware, and they're just trying to keep the petri dish alive, and they think you're a petri dish, and you realize that they're storing traumas. And when you do this really deep forgiveness work. You're causing the body to relax, and you're causing the body
to feel safe at a cellular level. And when a cell feels safe, it will expand and grow and thrive and it'll maintain itself. And when a cell feels like the environment around it is hostile, whether it's because of self hate or whether it's because of a lack of nutrients, or because you're overexercising or under exercising, then they don't feel safe, and then they don't do their job right. So when your body is in that place, your energy field gets bigger and stronger. And we can even measure
that at the science clinic. We measure brain voltage and people will increase their brain voltage. And when that happens, suddenly that injury that you've had that won't heal, it heals. The cancer that you have can shrink just from doing meditation right. Because if there's conscious or unconscious loathing around a part of your body, like oh, you don't like your love handles, right, they're probably not going to go away. In fact, they'll probably get bigger, right because they don't
feel safe. So this deep loving of your body of your tissues. And I was working with a teenager recently and she said, you know, some of my friends don't like their bodies, and yeah, and they think they're fat, or they think they're thin, or they don't like their nose or whatever. And so I thought about it a lot, and I realized I really like my body because it
can do all these amazing things. And I was like, that is the most enlightened, cool thing I've ever heard from a teenager, right, because if you have that self love for your tissues, even if they're not working right. And I say this as a guy who was three hundred pounds with like arthritis and a knee that I couldn't trust because it would just like it would just fold in the middle of the walk, you know, I
would fall over, like I was such a rack. And to be able to go through and forgive yourself that's
actually the hardest forgiveness. And you can run the reset process on a part of your body that you have an issue with, you can run the reset process on your entire body, and the feelings of not being enough, not being good enough, all of those things you can just like go of so you're just at peace and things are as they are, and you don't have to have an emotional reaction everything, and that allows you to have so much more energy for your spirit.
When that spiritual lacking is draining all your energy, you don't have the energy to pick the right foods and to do the workout, and to put into your creative
processes or creative endeavors that you have going on. And I want to dive into a couple of things which I thought, really I'm glad you talked about this in the book because I think the challenges, as we know with health and wellness, there's always a new fad, a new trend, a new kind of thing that comes up and everyone gets behind it, and then afterwards a few years later we realized that there was more research to I think one of those big areas is around There's
two areas in the book that you cover really well that I want to dive into. One is around where we get our protein. We know protein's important. I mean, remind us how much protein we need to get every day, Like good protein you.
Need between zero point eight and one gram of protein per pound of body weight. So I weigh two hundred pounds and I'm about seven percent body fat, and that means I need about two hundred grams of protein fat. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Yeah, as a guy who is the fat computer hacker from the first Durassic Park, it's totally ridiculous. And in order to do that, if you're obese like I was, you might say, well, if I weigh three hundred pounds, I had one hundred pounds of fat, you
really only need two hundred grams of protein. You can subtract the extra fat from the number, but two hundred grams of protein. It's a lot, and protein isn't all the same, and this is something.
That that's what Yeah.
Yeah, the big food companies are trying to tell us cricket protein or gluten is protein. There's a company making keto cookies that are all protein. They're just gluten and canola oil. That is not food. So a while ago, the story was, oh, all calories are the same, so you can drink this, you know, hyproctose corn STARp. It's just calories. As long as you keep your calories low. You can drink a diet coke and a Snicker's bar. They councel each other's out. It doesn't work like that.
Protein's the same way. So different proteins send different signals to the body. And there's something called amino acid availability score, and it turns out that animal proteins score much higher than plant based proteins. And I say this as a former vegan, a former raw vegan, and you just cannot get enough protein from plants unless you're doing heavy industrial processing of the plants, and that comes out of cost.
But even then, the highest quality of plant based protein powders don't hold a candle to dairy protein, which is vegetarian, or egg protein which is vegetarian or sort of. The king of proteins is beef or buffalo or bison. As a vegan, I had a problem with this because vegan. I was in Tibet at a monastery, and Tibetan monks love to argue. They're trained since they're about eight years old.
They have an eight year old sitting on the ground surrounded by older kids standing up, all arguing at the same time, doing these like aggressive things, and it's to teach you to be calm in the face of arguments so that you can still be at piece. And it's beautiful to watch. So I knew this and so I'm kind of teasing the head lama. I said, well, you tell me no killing, but you have a yak skin on your prayer pole, so I think you're a hypocrite. And he starts laughing and it looks at me. He goes,
one death feeds everyone. I'm like mind blown because I had been a vegan until I went to Tibet, and I was like, cannot be a vegan in Tibet because there's just very little food. And if there's you know, some yak butter tea, or there's you know a little bit of meat, you just eat it because there's just not enough food. So I really thought about it, and
that led me to think about death's per calorie. And as a guy has built a regenerative farm on Vancouver Island and raised all of my own animals for most of the last eight years, I will tell you that a cow will feed you for an entire year, and if it's grass fed and from a local farmer, no other animal died unless the cow stepped on a frog. I mean, it is literally one death, and if the cow was treated with respect and ethically, then you are
killing fewer animals than an industrial plant. Protein, because when they do those, the tractor comes through and it chops up every creature that's there, including the bunnies and the mice and the butterflies and all the ugly ones like worms that no one likes that are important for life. So I feel really clean about it. But the most important thing that I can say if you choose to eat animal protein, which I do, is that practice gratitude
before you eat. I believe, because of my shamanic training, because of all the spiritual work that I do, that humans, our energetic field, as a species, made a sacred agreement with the animals that we've domesticated, and they come here to nourish us in exchange for our gratitude. So if you're going to eat meat, you practice gratitude because that's the deal we made. And if you disrespect the animal and you're eating industrial meat and you're eating it with mindlessly,
I don't think that's a good practice. But I do think it's ethical to eat meat because I'm killing fewer lives when I eat beef than when I eat plant based protein, and since that nourishes me better, which gives me stronger energy and stronger bones, and it gives me more energy to put back into the world, including building better soil via farming of animals. I feel like it's a good deal and it's within integrity for me.
But even in some animal protein you are recommending, and we'll talk about the plant proteins as well, but some of the animal proteins you were saying are not as strong and reliable. I believe you mentioned chicken, turkey. I think there are a couple of ways in the book that I saw.
Birds are not that thrown dinosaurs, so they're less like us. And the fat that's present in birds is similar to soybean oil. It's a lot of a Mega six that causes inflammation. And you would know this if you're in India and you're not feeling well, your grandmother's going to give you white rice and ghee, which is clarified butter. In the US, you get saltines and margarine or something,
and it doesn't work very well. But the reason is that, gee, that saturated fat is very nourishing for you, and that you actually need that you don't get it from a chicken. And also one chicken to get the amount of protine I eat a chicken a day I'm killing three hundred and sixty five chickens a year. That doesn't feel very good. In addition to that, real chickens, the kind that I grow on my farm, take nine months to mature, and their fat is rich and yellow and full of vitamins,
even though it's not the best kind of fat. But the chickens they're eating at the store takes six weeks to get that big because they've been modified and bred to have these incredibly large breasts, and they're terribly mistreated. So unless the chicken is pasture raised and a heritage breed, at which point it's not affordable. They're terribly expensive to raise.
Chickens exist to make eggs. Eggs, if you're not allergic, are really a good source of fat and protein, And when you eat eggs, you want to cook the whites and leave the yolk running, and then you get the most nutrients that way.
We talked about the plant protein from an ethical standpoint, but even from a nutritional standpoint, I mean, as so, me and my wife are both plant based, but plant protein is like not a big part of our diets at all. My wife's like not into eating any of the burgers or any of the meat, so it's probably good.
Fake meat is not good.
Yeah, yeah, explain why, because I think that's slightly the challenge for a lot of people who try and make that switch, and I feel everyone who turns to that then goes back because it's not satisfying.
Are you plant based to the exclusion of dairy.
Yes, I A yea my WiFi we have been for years.
Yeah, and it's working for you. But if you're from India, you probably have the genes that support that much better exactly. And so if you look at what your great grandmother ate, that's going to be an indication of what you can handle. And if you look at you, your skin is really good. And that's a new usual when most people go vegan because they eat a lot of industrial processed seed oils.
So if you're eating a diet that agrees with your body, and I totally support doing that, then what you want to do is you want to make sure that you're getting complete amino acids, and you can do it from rice and beans. But here's the issue. To get enough protein.
It's definitely hard. I'm fully like, I'm thinking about it a lot.
It's like three hundred grams of carbs to get twenty grams of protein, So then your best bet for plant based proteins have the highest amino acid score. It's actually hemp protein with the fat removed because hemp oil isn't particularly good for you. So then what you end up doing is saying, Okay, I'm going to do that, and I feel good. I've also helped a lot of a
lot of vegans. In fact, this is at David Wolf's Vegan conference, I explain the virtues of ghi, where no animals die to make ghi, and ghee helps to escort the nutrients from plants into the body, so you make better use of the plants. So sometimes adding tablespoon gia day gives you like a healthier skin glow and it feels more nourishing. And people can choose to do that or not choose to do that. And people get mad because I tease vegan. Dude, I was a vegan, Like
it's teasing guys. It's not a disrespectful thing. It's in my case, it actually harms me. And some things like spinach, kale, even raspberries and almonds are very high in oxalic acid, which I write about in the book, and it causes
crystals to form. Seventy percent of kidney stones are from plant based compounds, not from eating meat and beer thirty percent or from meat and beer, and so you can overdo either direction, right, So I want people to say, choose the right plants when you're plant based, and I would consider if I was plant based, adding hemp based protein powder, even though it is a processed food, it's going to be a processed food that has the best amino acid score that you can get.
Absolutely, thank you so much, very useful for everyone who's listening. And I wanted to dive into drinking the wrong kind of milk because I think milk's been this. You know, there's obviously there's been the almond milks and the oat milks,
and then there's been debate on either side. Walk us through milk because I think like that's again I'd love to hear your side of it, because again it's one of the I find all of this so confusing because you hear something new come out, everyone gets behind it. It works for people, maybe it doesn't work. Stopping dairy milk from my diet helped me with my gut, but I also don't drink a lot of oat milk or almond Mike, that's not really that's not really part of
my diet. I don't I don't have cereal and stuff like that, so I'm not drinking that. But then there's a lot of debate on that side of it as well.
There is a lot of yay.
Yeah.
Dairy milk has been a part of human food for at least five thousand years, and it's a convenient way to not kill an animal and to have it continuously produce fat and protein, which are the hard things for humans to get enough of because carbs are relatively abundant in nature. So what do you do? Well, while you would just drink milk, but the milk we would drink was from a breed of cows that makes a two milk and they ate grass and that works well with
our biology. The kind of milk that you get now is from cows that are bread to eat grain and corn and soy, and that milk has the wrong kind of fat and it has a kind of protein called a one protein that's very inflammatory. So a lot of people who can't drink milk, which include me, because it messes up my gut roilings. It just makes it makes me stupid. Actually, my brain swells up from it.
I get a lot of mucause. I used to get throat like I used to get more throat infections like me too.
It's very similar. So sometimes you can handle a two milk, but raw a too milk is how we used to drink it. And in many states it's still illegal. And why the government thinks it has a right to tell you what you're allowed to eat, I don't know. They don't have that right, so it doesn't matter if they make it illegal. They didn't have the right to make it illegal. So therefore it's not illegal in the world that I live in. Then again, if you're selling it,
they might still try to arrest you. Then you gotta go to court. But here's the deal. Raw milk from many people is very very healing, and for some people weigh protein, especially if you're vegetarian but not vegan. It's a source just get grass fed way protein because the animals are treated better and because it's a higher quality nutritional product. But let's assume you're not going to drink cow's milk, because for a lot of people it just
doesn't work, including me, I don't touch it. Butter and ghee usually are acceptable, especially gee won't trigger allergies and mucous like that for almost anyone. Well, what about the fake milks? Right, so these are all industrial products unless you make it yourself. And what they figured out with almond milk was, oh, we can take leftover parts of almonds and you know, the ones that are broken and unsightly,
and we can use those to make milk. And it's just a few almonds and some canola oil and some high fructose corns arup some flavorings and we blend it up and we sell it for like eight dollars as a health food product. It's not a health food product. So almond milk is high in phytic acid that sucks minerals out of your bones. You have to take more minerals. And it's also high in oxalates, which are the things that are causing kidney stones and things that are causing
gout and joint pain when you wake up. Even if you have really bad skin and you're eating a ton of these high ox late foods like almond milk and kale smoothies and all this can be why because it's making tiny razor sharp calcium oxolate crystals in your skin that are coming out. So I don't recommend almond milk. Also, if you're a vegan. For animals, the number of bees about a third of all bees dye pollinating almonds every year, Like,
it is not a particularly clean product. So then we say, well, oat milk, okay, that is the biggest scam on the planet right now. It raises your blood sugar as much as drinking a coke. It is not a hell food, and it usually has glyphosate and it's high and phidic acid that sucks minerals out of your body. And I know you might not like hearing this, but do the math. There's a tablespoon of oats blended into a bunch of water and you spent six bucks on that, Like, are
you dumb? Right? It's not a good move, right, So what should you drink? There's two kinds of milk that are okay. One of them is macadamian milk, which is really expensive and you have to make it yourself because macadamias have the right kinds of oil in them. But the other one that's abundant and healthy is coconut milk. So if you're going to do it, use coconut.
Is the worst tasting one.
I know, right, yeah, it is the worst tasting one. But here's the problem though, If you say, Okay, I don't like the taste of coconut milk, and I'm with you on that, so I'm going.
To I don't drink any milk.
But yes, yeah, that's really the key. You don't need to drink a plant milk. It's a made up product that you don't have a need for. But if you say I'm going to do one of these other things, you're spending a lot of money, you're getting anti nutrients, you're getting mostly water, and you're usually getting a toxic burden. So like, why am I doing this again? The thing that milk has that's most important is it has protein, and the second most important is it has good fats.
When you have a replacement milk, even coconut milk, there is no protein. So the coconut yogurt you like, it doesn't work because it doesn't have protein. So you have to take that and addway protein or add scoops of maybe hemp protein if you're doing plant based, but you've got to add a whole bunch of protein to it, because normal yogurt has that. Most people tolerate grass fed yogurt pretty well. I still don't. I can't touch cow's milk unless it's ghee for the most part, or I
could do some butter. But if I was to have, you know, two tablespoons of regular milk, it messes me up. My gut's wrong, it's just not right. So that's an immune response. So I just want to tell you're not getting protein in your plant milks, and you're getting stuff you don't want in your plant milks, so just don't do it.
You've mentioned canola oil a few terms as well, and I feel like oil's has been obviously in the biohacking world. It's been known for a while, but I think it's finally coming into like the forefront of checking the back of something and going, oh my gosh, wow, this is canola oil, palm oil. You know, millions of different oils walk us through that, because I think that's kind of still for the majority of people, like an under understood area,
like they're just not aware. Unaware is probably the right word.
Like, yeah, we're unaware. We've been taught first calories, it wouldn't matter. And it turns out, well, calories do entirely different things. So we toss that out from most people have understood that's different. And then we say, okay, well, it's how much fat are you eating? But who would imagine that different fats do different things in the body. Oh, my gosh, you mean the kind of fat matters? Oh,
in different proteins. So even saying fat, carbs, and protein, it doesn't mean anything unless you know what it is. So we zoom in on fat. Well, it turns out omega six fats, which is canola, corn, soybeans, safflour, even grape seed oil. Those are fats that when they enter the body, they slow your metabolism and they cause inflammation
because they're unstable fats. They're called pollen saturated fats. And when you eat saturated fats things like coconut oil or butter or ghee, or most animal fats from like sheep or something, or from cows, but not from chickens, then you end up saying, oh, the saturated fats they can't oxidize because they're stable. So you eat those and they stimulate your metabolism and they allow your body to make testosterone and to make other hormones that your body needs,
and to make stable sell membranes. So we understand the biochemistry of this, but the food companies are saying, well, it's cheaper to do cannol oil, so let's fry our French fries in those canola oil, and it's cousins there. They are a major cause of diabetes in cancer which are skyrocketing because they're unstable, especially in they're heated a lot.
And they're pretty much in every packaged good.
They are. But change is coming. So before about the nineteen seventies, all French fries are made with beef tallow because it's a very stable oil that's fat from cows. McDonald's that's what they use, and then they switch to these seed oils and then all the diseases went through the roof. So we have a problem. Food needs to be affordable for everyone. One of the companies that I've invested in and then I'm backing that I'm most excited about is called zero Acre Farms, and I don't work
for them. I did put a small amount of money in them, but it's because of the mission they find a way to use fermentation to make an oil that is monounsaturated like olive oil that is stable for frying at twenty five percent the cost of canola oil for a restaurant, and they're scaling up to get to that price point. But what it's called zero acre because it'll remove millions of acres of corn and so from being
grown to squeeze oil out of them. And they can take sugar cane, just the entire sugar cane, not sugar, and they can ferment it and make a healthy, edible oil for humans. And this is going to change the world's metabolism. It's a huge thing. So in the meantime, you can go to a place as duck fat fries or talofries, which you wouldn't eat, or you don't eat fries. Don't eat fried food at restaurants is a great rule to live longer. And don't eat the salad dressing either.
Tell them I want real olive oil that's not cut with canola oil, and I want vinegar or lemon juice. And you do that, just those two things, nothing fried, and do that, and all of a sudden you find you lose weight, your brain is focused, and your body makes more hormones.
It's that big of a de I'm so glad you raised that because that's the It's such a tiny, simple change, but it could save you from so many different things. Like I switched. Probably it might have been a year now, but I traveled a lot this year on tour, and that was hard because my diet on tour was not as easy to maintain because I was in different cities every day and I didn't have a chef. It was
traveling with me or anything like that. And when I'm back here, I've been eating like a whole Foods dyer, only eating plants, not eating anything out of packages, you know, not eating pretty much no package food whatsoever. Maybe now and again, and like that in and of itself has transferred. I used to love a bag of chips, right even if they were like the healthiest chips that I could
possibly find. I love a bag of chips. I love you know, I love a little bit of crackers, biscuits, whatever, any of this kind of stuff nick knacks and just taking out packaged foods is had a massive impact on how I feel.
It's kind of life changing to do that. And I was I missed an oil that should get a shout out. It's palm oil. Yeah, so palm oil is saturated and I would much rather eat something cooked in palm oil than canola oil. The issue with palm oil is mostly environmental, so there's deforestation and rank tanks and things like that. But if you are at the store and you want to buy some chips or crisps or whatever.
Yeah, crisp is what I would have called it. I've adapted bag of chips. We'd call it a bag of crisps bag in London.
Yes, so you want to eat those, look for something that's cooked in coconut oil or palm oil. And when you do that, you're going to be much healthier, and they're going to taste better and they're going to be more satisfying because when you eat those bad oils, the Omega six oils, they make you hungry really quickly because your body says, I got to deal with all this inflammation, have some sugar. So all of a sudden, you ate a chip that felt good. And I don't generally eat
stuff like that. Maybe at a barbecue or something, I'll bring a bag of those.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not perfect. Yeah, And Dave, I want to thank you for doing all this research, because you know, as I've got older and I'm thirty six now, and as I get older, every single year, my health goes up and up and up on the priority list. And I think for me it's been so challenging because I grew up I would say with no health education. I'm benefited by having a wife who's very disciplined and
focused and understands more. I'm grateful to have my podcast where I get to sit down with incredible people like you, and I get introduced to books like yours that I have over the years on longevity and now smarter, not harder, And to me, I'm just like, I want to get this right, to make getting older easier, right, like to make getting older like your goals.
Your goals suck.
Oh sorry, that's a bad goal.
I want to make. I want to make getting older easier. I want to stop getting old. That's I want to stay how I am now or better every single.
There you go.
It isn't a different vision. It feels different. We have it so built in that we're going to get old. We are living in a world today where you can measure as twenty years younger than your calendar age.
I want that. So you want that.
You don't have to get old, right, you might age, but the getting old thing, that's that's what we did in the.
Seventy Yeah, it made me happy. I was. I was. I've been playing a lot of pickleball and that's been like my form of exercise that I love and I enjoy and it's it's it's start and stop, it's fast, it's competitive. I love every part of it. And I just got beat by a seventy year old a couple of weeks ago, and I loved it because I just I was like, I want to be like you. When I was like, it's double.
Wiring, it destroyed me. One person can do that, and that brings up something that that's actually really important. Please learning from our elders. The reason I can do all this biohacking is I was so desperate for my health in my twenties. I started running an anti aging longevity nonprofit group near Stanford University. So I was learning how to maintain my health from people in their eighties who
could run circles around me, like that's possible. I saw it, and I saw it in the nineties and if they could do it back then. We can do so much better now.
You don't you calling me out that. I like you. You'recome, You're allowed to. Yeah.
I like that. That's I learned from my elders. You learn from the guy in the pickleball court. You can be that guy when you're seventy. Yeah, and what's really going to happen on your seventies? You can be that guy. But look and feel like you do now. And we're building this world for all of us. And it's really important because the birth rate in all of developed nations is so low right now, we're not replacing our population, which means it's our job to be strong and young forever.
Well said. Well said. The book is called Smarter Not Harder by Dave ass Read the Biohcker's Guide to Getting the Body and Mind you want. I highly highly recommend that you grab a copy of this book. I we have just skimmed over some of the things that I found interesting, some of the things that I felt were front of mind for me. I know a lot of you been asking questions about these things. I see tons of videos on TikTok sharing all sorts of advice. I felt it was great to dive into it with. Dave.
Please go and grab a copy, go and read it with your friends. Figure out that one thing that you're going to focus on. Remember, you don't need to try and do all of this. Pick that one area that you want to solve, master it, move on to the next. I promise you that, as much as it sounds hard and complicated and difficult, once you start seeing a win in one area, it's going to have that domino effect. So go and grab it.
Dave.
Thank you so much for always coming on and being such a You're such a you are. You are an elder, truly, but you don't look like one. You know, you know you don't. You don't feel like one, which is amazing. And I'm very grateful that I get to have these conversations with you because I always come away more inspired and uplifted, and my goals get bigger and bolder and better. So I'm glad that you're not letting me settle. So thank you for not letting me settle. I appreciate it.
You're so welcome. I mean, I mean, I appreciate your work so much. You are inspiring millions of people to be better, and I see it every day online and you're just you're doing such amazing work, so true appreciation.
Well, thank you, Thank you, Dove. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past. Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable.
So a tree doesn't go oh, it's hard and thick, does it. It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.
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