Corinne Foxx ON: Coping With Anxiety & Being Kind Even When Life Isn’t

I seem to be very detrimental for people. Hey, everyone, welcome back to our purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, today's guest is someone that we've been in touch with for a while. I've been wanting to speak to her and I couldn't be more excited to Welcome to the podcast. Karen Fox an actress, producer, activist,

and CEO. She was the executive producer of the Netflix comedy series Ad Stopped Embarrassing Me, which was inspired by her relationship with her dad, Jamie Fox, who also starred in the series. She's also filming a key recurring role for the second season of the Hulu comedy series doll Face that me and my wife have been watching, and she's also the co host and DJ on the hit Fox television show Beat Shazam. In August twenty twenty, she launched her own podcast alongside her best friend called Am

I Doing This Right? Which acts as a guidebook for young people on how to kickstart their adulthood, which I love listening to. Karin, Welcome to the podcast. Hello. First of all, I love the way he said adulthood. How do you say? No, you guys say it the right way, we say the right way. I'm not sure. I mean I think so. Yeah, we had we had we had movies named so, we had Kidulthood, Adulthood. Have you ever seen any of these movies? No, I've never heard it.

They're actually really good. They're all about the street culture in London. So oh no, I've never heard of it. I forgot that. Yeah. I'm really happy when I get reminded that I still have my British accent, oh, because all my brit friends oh constantly teasing me that I've lost it. Really no, I mean it's gonna it goes far in America where like what British accent like I could listen to you all day. Hearing that intro, I'm like,

can you read that to me? Every part? Please? Please? Well, well, for me, it's the other way around, because every time I hear something in an American accent, it sounds authoritative, It sounds like a ted talk. It's really because I grew up. I grew up when I stepped foot in New York City. When I first moved to America five years ago, I was like, I'm in a movie because to me, everything looks like a set because I grew up watching American talent. No, that makes sense. I mean

New York. When you go to New York, it really does feel like that, like it really holds up. When you come to La you're like, wait, like it's kind of it's not as beautiful as there's some grimy areas, or you're like, this doesn't have that magical New yorkness to it. Well, you were just saying you love London. I love. Tell me about your experiences in London. You were there for a movie. You said, yeah, I filmed my movie forty seven meters down Uncaged, which is a

shark movie. But we filmed in these huge tanks in London. But London is mye what do you mean explain? Yeah, please, So the entire movie is set underwater. First of all, I lied to the director and told him I knew how to swim when I didn't know how to swim. And but yeah, they built these huge tanks where they had these really intricate sets underwater, and we were scuba diving in the movie. We get lost in these games, and so we spent months under the surface of the water.

So we'd go into work at six am it was dark, go underwater, see no light, then come up at like eight pm. And I didn't see the sun for basically didn'tee the sun for months. Wow, I know. And I'd have like a little light in my trailer there's like little UV lights because I was like, this is going to like negatively affect my mental health. So I was like I would sit in like roast in front of the light at my lunch break. Wait, you actually didn't see the sun. Oh No, I actually didn't for months.

And they did that as part of getting you into characters. No, No, it was just because we had to shoot underwater. So you go inside, you'd go underwater, you come out and be dark. Then you'd go do it the next day. And so it was like, yeah, I don't know if I'll ever shoot a movie underwater again. I feel like I got my the taste of it from that. That's that's the last time you lied about being able to swim. That Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be truthful. And it was

my first role. So I was like I'll do anything. You know. You're like, oh, yeah, I can totally swim, such a great swimmer. And then they throw you in the tank the first day and you're dogging paddling and they're like, wait, did we guess the wrong girl? Wait? How how how quick is that learning curve? Because how you when you're when you're swimming for your life, it's pretty quick. It's pretty quick. Um No, I mean I had to pass the swim test the first day. I didn't.

I didn't pass it. Um, And they were like, Corrin and get it together. I was just dating my boyfriend at the time and he's like a lifeguard, like a certified whatever, and so he was like, Okay, these are the techniques to use. He was sending me YouTube videos and the next day I went and I passed the swim test and they're like, Okay, you can now shoot the movie. I love that. Yeah, so your boyfriend's like, this is how you pretend to be able to do

front stroke, this is backstroke. It was literally treading water. It was how to tread water video YouTube videos. Well, I love that. That's amazing. What gave you the courage and confidence to be able to say you could do something and then figure it out? Because I think that that mindset often works against us, like people have imposter syndrome. I feel I can't do it, so I can't even put my foot forward. What gave you the confidence to say I can do that, I'll figure it out, which

you did. Um. I do suffer from imposter syndrome a lot. But honestly, and it sounds tacky, but I really think my dad was a big, big push in that, and the fact that, like my entire life, he told me, I mean this is a big statement, like you can do anything, and you are so capable, and like I just heard that constantly, and so when I got offered this role and I didn't know how to swim, I kind of heard him like, well you can do anything, and I was like, well, I'll figure it out. On

set which is what I did. But I really it was instilled this confidence that like I was bull at a young age, and so I felt confident to do it. What was your first experience of that when going back with that father daughter relationship, Like when was the first time you felt you were hearing that from him? And what was the first few things you started doing based

on that? Um, I feel like he set up my whole life, and you know, like when you're a child, there's not that many things that you have to meet in that way. I think a lot of that came when I was dating in high school and things like that and really instilling in me my worth and just having like little petty high school you know, breakups and being devastated in him, just being like there is no man that like can ever take away yourself worth, and like do you know he always says do you know

who you are? And I don't think he beings in my last name, but like in my essence and like how powerful of a woman I am? And I just felt that, I think specifically at that age when I really needed like a male voice that was like giving me that confidence when like you know, I had little breakups here and there. Well, you are definitely a powerful person. You're doing so many incredible things. You are producing, you're

an activist, you're you host your own podcast. Tell us about what are you doing to balance all of that? Because I find that, especially in you know, your generation, my generation, there's this ambition and drive to do a lot of things. Yeah, but when you turn it from idea into implementation, things get real. How have you managed to be able to dabble in so many things but

still you know, figure yourself out? Um, it was tough, and there was Recently I realized, Okay, there's a lot on my plate and there's a lot of different hats I wear and people. I have to be the producer and then I have to be the actor, and then I have to be the host, and then I have to be you know this that, And I realize, okay, like I can't do all of this by myself. So I actually this year got a life coach. And I don't know if you've ever had one, been one, I

feel like you could be one. Yeah, I'm a life coaching. We have our own certification school. Yeah, you're definitely like it, but really, just having someone sit down with me and prioritize, okay, like what do you want to accomplish first? And like how do we get there? And making deadlines and making I think it's just hard when you have so many passions to figure out, like where do I start? And it's easy to start a bunch of little things and then not really get to the end of them. And

so I really needed that structure. So I meet with her every week. We go over my priorities. We figure out what days I'm going to do what. That's a big one is scheduling in like I will send this email at this time. I will do this because things back up, you know, and it's so easy to get behind. So she's been a godsend and her plus my therapist equals healthy caren. See I love that. So I actually want to dive into that because I think, See I

love that. So I actually want to dive into that because I think today we're hearing a lot about a lot of people. You here say, well, you know, I was speaking to my therapist and you just said, obviously you've been figuring out life with your life coach and planning and scheduling. Tell me how you find therapists and coaches help you personally differently, and and like you just said now that healthy career equals there's my therapist, which

I love. What are they bringing to that's different from each other because I think we're living at a time where people are kind of becoming what I way therapy is. Yeah, but I still feel like coaching is is an unknown art. Yeah. I really didn't even when I went looking for a life coach, didn't really know even what I was looking for.

I just knew I had this need that with my therapist, you know, we go through trauma, we go through you know, you know, my emotional states and how to overcome some things. And then I felt like I needed somebody to help me, not an assistant in a way, but someone who was just helping me prioritize, you know, all these projects I had.

So I feel like there's like a type A type B side too, Like my therapist is from my type be creative side that's messy and all over the place, and then my Type A side is like my life coach was like, let's schedule and play on everything. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I've I've always seen it as therapists help us make sense of what's going on, and then coaches help us make things happen. Yes, yeah, it's this idea of like therapists they help us unpack our past,

they help us untangle what's going on. They help us really move on from our past, and then coaches help you go. Well, where do you want to be? Let's use your present to get there. And I you know, I encourage everyone to have both coaches and therapists in their life because I think that's a brilliant What even urge you to go out there? Like? How did you

think about that? What was going on in your life where you were like, I need help in my life because I think asking for help or looking for help, either from family or friends, sometimes we could even get in our own way. I was speaking to a friend the other day and he was telling me how someone in his life just no matter how much he's trying to support or facilitate, that person won't accept help. How do you feel we can all open up to accept more help in our life and know that it's okay

to one help. I think it's a self worth thing, you know. I feel like a lot of people don't feel worthy of help or don't don't want to be

a burden. And I think for me, I mean when I was diagnosed with an anxiety to sort of at age fourteen, I was the type of person where I was like, I want to go to therapist, I want to do workbooks, I want to like I was just very much so like I don't want to be held back by this, And so I think I applied that later on in life when I was realizing, Okay, I'm feeling confused, I'm feeling lost, I don't know where to start, I don't know how to finish things like now I

need a different form of help, and so I feel like I was just someone who naturally gravitated towards that. But I do think it's about feeling worthy and feeling deserving of help and eliminating that feeling of being a burden on someone else. Absolutely, I love that. That's such a Topfulanzer, Thank you for that, because I think so many people right now are going to be listening to what you just said. And I'm that if you listen deeply to what Karina said, that's going to urge you

to break through that. Yeah, And on the other side of it, I think people love offering help you know, people want to feel needed and want to feel purposeful, and so you're you're also giving you know, people an opportunity to show up for you. Yeah. I think giving and getting up both privileges, right. It's like that idea of if you have something to give and you're able

to give, that's an honor. Yeah. And and for someone else to have someone to give that's ready to receive, that's an honor too, and I think you forget that. So I love that you spoke earlier about your father and the advice he gave you and how that's kept you going. But then you also have a show called Dad Stop Embarrassing Me. So so Dad's on one end, it's like, oh, Dad gave you this really good advice. Yeah,

and that's like, Dad, stop embarrassing me. How many times have you felt both those emotions in the same day, every day, every single day? No. I mean my dad and I have such a funny, like yin yang relationship where he is this like over the top performative guy. He was drawing attention to himself all the time, and I was more reserved and quiet growing up, and so that was just this perfect storm for him to embarrass me, and because he's drawing attention to himself all the time.

When you're a teenage girl, that's the last thing you ever want your dad to do, regardless of if he's famous or not. You don't you want your dad to fly under the radar. And so we had all these funny moments of like him doing too much or showing up at my cheerleading game wearing like super tight clothes

and me being like, ah, that's so embarrassing. And so we just wrote episodes and pitched it to Netflix and they loved it, and so it was such a cathartic thing for the both of us because at the time I was really embarrassed. You know, it wasn't a joke. At the time. When you're sixteen seventeen, it feels like the end of the world. So it was like full circle for us to look back and like laugh at these things that maybe at the time weren't as funny. Yeah,

I love that. The thing I love most about is I'm not a dad yet, but I can imagine that if I when I become a dad, and if I'm lucky enough to have a daughter, then I feel like I'm going to be I'm gonna be doing crazy things, right, Yeah, Like, what would be your advice to people that are about to become dads of the warnings of one are the things that embarrassing one are the things that are good. I mean at the end of the day that I think that is part of your job description as a dad,

Like embarrassing your your child. I think it's part of it. I think it's a rite of passage for kids to go through. So I don't really want to steer away from it. But I would say in my dad's experience, my dad was very He liked to play pretend he was a bad cop with boyfriends. Yes, I can imagine, and he's not at all. He's like unemotional. He's an actor. I mean he cries all the time. He's like not like that at all. But he loved to put on the you know, I'm going to bring my shotgun, you know,

that whole thing. And that was just like, Dad, I'm learning. Just let me give me this vace to just grow and figure this out. You don't have to fight my battles for me. We have an episode on the show, it's episode two, I think, where he goes like knocking on the boyfriend's door with all of his friends, And you really did that in real life to my high school boyfriend. He went knocking on a store to try to, I don't know, scare him off. I don't know if

you wanted to do. I was like, that's amazing. What what do you think it is when as kids? I feel like when we're growing up, we're sometimes we're embarrassed of them, sometimes we're embarrassed for them, sometimes we're embarrassed for ourselves. But then as we grow older, I feel like a lot of us develop a sense of gratitude and yeah, and connection. Was there ever a time where you felt you were bitter or resentful towards your parents?

Not for anything legitimate, but just as a young kid growing up, were you really just don't how are you able to overcome that? How do you think that healed over time? When you you kind of like, oh, I really wish they didn't do that something more serious, not as funny. Yeah, and then how do you kind of overcome that as an adult? Yeah? Well, my dad just put out a book, but he talks about in the book we went to therapy together when when I was

in high schooler or maybe you're in college. Because we were kind of butting heads a lot, I felt like you really didn't understand me, and so I feel like for me, I was really lucky because both my parents listened to me and they were able to like, at least let me have my platform, even if they didn't understand. And I think it's very normal as a kid to go through that, like my parents don't get me and

they don't get what I want to do. And we definitely had those moments where, you know, and it's funny to say this, but going to college. My dad went to college but didn't graduate, so he didn't really understand like how impactful that was going to be for me.

And that was actually a point of contention for us where I was like, I'm going to college and he's like, why you don't have to go, Like you can just get into the industry, and I was like, no, this is what I want to do and I need you to respect this, which sounds crazy to be telling a parent that, but he didn't really understand. And those were times where I was like, you just have to listen to me. And then when I graduated, he was like crying.

He was like, oh my god like. Of course, this is such a huge accomplishment, and I just didn't understand what this meant to you, and I do now. Yeah, Wow, I thank you for sharing that. I want to share with you biggest news of the year. How many of you want to meditate? I can see your heads nodding, I can see you raising your hands. I can see you saying, yes, Jay, I really want to learn to meditate. How many of you would like to learn to meditate

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Forward slash J. Yeah. It's so it's so interesting to just hear about relationships and ups and downs because I think everyone's kind of on their own journey and everyone's listening and watching has a different experience or position with their family. And I think hearing this, I think what I've always found that when when I hear about positive experiences of parenting or anything, I always think for people,

I'm like, if you didn't get that, try and be there. Yeah, And that's and that's how you also get to experience that because I think about them, like, there may be a lot of people listening going, well, I didn't get that. I wish I had that, And I'm like, but then we can have that opportunity to go and be that and and try and have that experience that way, so that you still get to experience in your life. Yeah.

And I mean I think that just goes to so many other things too, like healing your own trauma so that you don't, you know, continue to pass it on to you know, generation generations. And I feel like our our generation is a lot more aware of, you know, our mental health and the things that I've happened to us and like healing them now so we don't pass them on later, you know. Yeah, well, thank you for including me in your generation. You're you're you're much younger, yes,

your millennial yes, okay, okay, okay. But that's a great segue because months ago you posted on your Instagram Karin's Guide to Wollness. Yeah. I love that, and I loved what you were sharing there. I wanted to know where did you come up with that list from and how did it develop, and and why did you feel the need to share it too, because I think that's that was so powerful that you did that. Um. Yeah, I mean my mental health journey started when I was fourteen,

when I was diagnosed with anxiety. And at the time, there was no conversation for mental health. There was no hashtags, there was no social media, there was no brands doing self care Sunday like that just wasn't a thing, and so I had to spend many years just doing a lot of my own research on what anxiety was and how to treat it and what worked for me. So over time I developed this list in my phone, which

is what you're referring to. I just screenshot at it post on my Instagram of things that worked for me and like what made me feel better, and it was like working out, going to therapy, and it's very specific for me. It's like one to two times a week, you know, And I don't recommend it, and I think I wrote, like, I don't recommend that for everyone, but I just started writing things, Oh, working out works, OH, going to therapy works. Oh journaling works for me, OH

meditating works for me. And I would just keep adding to my list so that you know, when you're having you're in a really anxious moment or you're going through a tough time, it's hard to remember all of the tools you have. You're like, I don't remember anything. So it was nice for me to have it in my phone so I could reference it, you know, if I

needed it. When you went through it at fourteen, what would the conversations like at school or like with friends or with even your parents, Like I can imagine that I agree with you that now we're living at a time where you just opened up a social media app and that'll be someone talking about mental health or right someone sharing something, or a brand's doing something, or there's an event for mental health and there's more therapists and

coaches in the world at that point. Tell me how that dialogue went for you in terms of getting the diagnosis and then figuring out next steps, and how did people respond at school? What did kids know? Did your friends know? Like, No, No, I didn't feel comfortable enough

to share it. I was really really ashamed of it, and I felt like I didn't want to be called the C word, which is crazy, and because I didn't really know what it was and people weren't talking about it, so I want years where I didn't tell any of my friends. I immediately told my parents, though, because I got to the point where I didn't want to go to school. I was so anxious that I couldn't even sit in a classroom. So I knew in my head, Okay,

something's wrong. I know other kids can't be feeling this way. And that's how I got started going to therapy. And I've had the same therapist since I was fourteen. I love this woman so much. But yeah, but but no, it took me a long time to be able to like and it sounds weird, but like come out and say I have anxiety. And I did that through an article I wrote for Refinery twenty nine in like twenty seventeen,

twenty eighteen, and I was terrified. I was really terrified to tell the world that I had anxiety, which sounds crazy, not too the C word, but it sounds, you know, unbelievable now because there's so much there's so much of a conversation for it. Yeah. Absolutely, And what were you experiencing then, Like when you said you anxious to go to school? What did that feel like? What did that mean at that time for you? It was I mean

there was a lot of physical anxiety symptoms. So it was like my palms were setting my you know, my heart's being out of my chest. I keep thinking that a plane is going to hit the school. Like I just these irrational fears and thoughts and panic attacks and things like that. I struggled with panic disorder for a long time. Seventy five percent of mental health conditions start between the age of fourteen and twenty four, so I was like right on part like fourteen years old. It's

just you know, showed up. And I've been in therapy ever since. Yeah, no, but that's it's it's incredible that you've been able to find the advice, seek the advice, build it, then be honest about sharing it, especially at a time when it is hard as a fourteen year old ye not know what's going on. Then you can't talk to your friends about it because you don't know how they're going to react and what words they're going

to use. And then you've got the added challenge of like, well, now my parents know because they have to know, and where's this going. But it sounds like when I look at that Curren's Guide to Wellness and I look at things like socializing with friends twice a week, right, you all said giving back once a month, which I want to dive into some of those. But I love what you said, and it was you said it so simply,

but it's actually so profound. You just said, I was creating a toolkit for myself because when you're feeling anxious, you forget what to do. Oh yeah, when you go to your tool kit, you're like, oh, this is this is the stuff I need to do. And I think that's such a great way of putting it for anyone and everyone. It's like you have to create a guide when you're not experiencing anxiety so that when you're in anxiety,

you know what to look at exactly. Let's dive into some of those When you say socializing with friends twice a week, what was the type of socializing that helped you relieve anxiety versus one type of socializing actually created more of it? Right, Like being in college and going to a college party, Maybe isn't the type of socializing that's going to relieve anxiety. But I'm like meaningful conversations, movie nights, going out to dinner, or just being with

like a close knit group of friends. Yeah, that definitely doesn't refer to just like hitting the town. Maybe that works for some people. Again, it's like for me, but for me, it was just having real conversations and just you know, being in company. I think when you feel anxious or depressed, you tend to go inward, and I realize, okay, I have to force myself to go outwards, you know, when I'm feeling when I'm not feeling well. Yeah, what are some of the mistakes you think you've seen that

parents make? Like, so maybe there's parents listening to this, young parents or parents with young kids listening to the podcast right now. What are some of the things that you think really hard when your child's going through it? But from a child's perspective who's or a teenager's perspective who's experiencing anxiety, What are some of the things parents can do better? And what are some of the mistakes you've seen people made, especially through your ambassador and active

activists work. I'm sure you're hearing a lot of teenagers say, well, my parents don't understand this, or my parents are pushing this. What are some of the things you can give us to think about. Um, I mean, I'm not a parent,

so I don't know. I think what my parents did really great is hearing me and then you know, coming up like what are we going to do now and making me feel like really safe, and the fact that they were going to you know, find me someone to talk to and like you know, get me there and

things like that. But I also really wanted to go to therapy, and so I don't know if like forcing a child who's not ready that could I saw that with other friends of mine really backfire and put a bad taste in their mouth for therapy later on, and so I think it's really like just being present isn't listening to what your child needs and if they're coming to you like feeling honored because it's it takes a lot to share with your parents, you know, especially at

that age when you are kind of starting to really want your own independence. It's like, now I have to lean on my parents more. And so yeah, I mean I think another thing, and this isn't just parents, but this is like everyone is is being like, oh, well that's normal or that's you know, oh everyone feels that way, and not validating someone's reality. I think that's something I seem to be very detrimental for people. Yeah, well thank you,

and yeah, I completely agree. I know you're not a parent, but I always feel like it's interesting for parents to hear it from kids. Yeah, and it's almost like we've all been children, and I feel like we forget that when we become an adult or you become a parent and sort of hear it from and even what you shared about your friends and saying like, actually, what we don't want is that everyone listens to this podcast and then goes to their kid and says you need to

go to therapy. Look what you know, yeah, and then that kid's like, but I don't want to go to therapy. And then what you just said that when someone feels forced to do that, that actually ruins that experience for them even in the future. And so I think that's a that's a great insight that I think could easily be missed because I think a lot of people do hear a piece of advice and then go, Okay, well

that's what my kid needs to do. But being present listening is u yeah, and there's other like outlets for anxiety. There's you know, music, or there's you know, like there's other things. Like I really love journaling as a kid, like I just grew up doing I still do it now and like that was so cathartic for me and almost as healing as therapy, and so like, if that's not the thing, and that's this is the whole thing.

When I talk about mental health, it's it's trial and error, right, Like it doesn't work for everyone, and so you have to try one thing and be like, oh, Okay, that didn't work, let me try this. And that's how my list was created, was I did a million other things besides the ten things on there that didn't work. Yes, yeah, exactly. Me and my wife actually started a new I don't know, maybe when this is out it will be maybe not. We've been doing a new series of doing things together

that's meant to relieve your anxiety. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so we went last week we went to this video's not out here, but we went to a break room. I don't know if you've ever been to Are you hit things? Were you hit things? So we were not feeling stressed or anxious that day. And actually being with my wife is like one of my favorite things. Like I love filming with her. I'm always just like if I could just be with you all there would be amazing.

And so we're off there to this rage room to break stuff and we walk into this room and it literally feels like I'm in a set of the movie Sore. Walk in and then you see all these like computers, there, there's bottles, there's everything because and then there's like all these different baseball bats and lead pipes and all this kind of stuff. You want to be in there with the wrong person, Yeah, you don't want to be in there.

And the thing is, you know what was really interesting Me and my wife went in there, and we walked out feeling more anxious than we didn't walking in because we realized that we don't like breaking stuff. During that, even if I was dressed, I was like, I don't

really want to break stuff. I don't. We were like, my wife's holding them, and you know what my wife's like, and she's holding a bottle and she's like yeah, And then I'm like trying to break stuff and I'm using all my force when I'm like, this is not making me happy, it's actually giving me anxiety. And then I read a study afterwards that said if you're anxious before, it relieves it, but if you're not anxious before, it creates it. And I was like I should have learn

this before. And the day the wrong day. And the best thing, well, the funniest thing was when we came out. I was talking to the lady who uh, you know, was there and knew about the experience, and she was saying that people come there when they get divorced or break ups, and then they often put like pictures of the person and then you know, and I was like, oh, that makes sense, now I get it. But again it's

like different things work for different people that day. We also did a splatter room, which is where you get lots of paint and you get to paint canvases. Oh that's cool and it was so fun, like we were both just like I would do this every week because it was so nice to make a mess without having any repercussions, right that it's like a different type of

mess than the one before totally. And no. I will say though, for one of my self care tools is like whenever I had a breakup, I always took up boxing at that time, and you know, like you know, and it was very cathartic. You picture your excess spacing, you just punch it, you know, and so but exactly when you're in that space, when you need that outlet, it makes sense. But when you're just going in, it's like this feels not good to me. Yeah, exactly, going

to a more beautiful one. Giving back once a month. I wanted to ask you about that, like, first of all, when did you discover that that was something that really helped you? And give me some examples of the things you've done over time, especially when you were younger and now today as well, Like what are some of the things that you've done that you felt were really a big part of that giving back that made a difference. Yeah, I mean, my philanthropic work and my advocacy work is

some of my favorite work that I do. And so because I am an ambassador for NOMI, the National Alliance for Mental Illness, and because I work with other organizations like I get to do that on a large scale very often now. But before I was just something I had to put in my schedule. When I was at USC, I used to just volunteer at a local homeless shelter every Sunday or Saturday morning, and I just you know,

give the meals and things like that. And so I think just thinking outside of yourself, because again, when you're anxious or you're depressed or whatever you get it, you get so consumed and you get stuck in a rut in your head. And when you think outside of yourself, like, oh, someone else's needs right now, and at least for thirty minutes an hour, Like you're not worried about yourself. We're not worried about all the things that are making you

feel anxious or depressed or whatever. And so I found that to be very healing for me. And then now to be able to do that on a large scale and speak with Nami and lobby Congress and all that stuff. It's giving back on a bigger scale, but it still provides relief for me. Yeah, I love that, And all the studies back that up and show that. Yeah, even when we're experiencing anxiety and stress, when we go and relieve the anxiety and stress of others or feel like

we're working on that, it massively impacts how we feel. Yeah, that's such a great job, not to just do things for myself, but you know it does. There is a reciprocal thing. When you're you know, giving back, you're also and we said that earlier, you're also you know getting something from it as well. Yeah. Absolutely, And when you're in some of those rooms, like when you're lobbying Congress or like standing up for a write or do you ever feel like you ever like what am I doing?

Like I can't believe I'm here, Like from having experienced anxiety to now like being an activist, And that's that's an amazing journey in and of itself. Yeah, when I lobbied Congress with Nami and I remember we were getting off the bus at DC, did to walk up the steps of the Capitol. I was like, every anxious moment, panic attack was worth it to be standing here because I felt like, you know, of those have a very few moments you're like me, feel like everything's come to

this moment. And there were days where like the struggle was real. You know, I was really having panic attacks. I really didn't want to go to school. I really didn't want to do these things. There was a time in which I couldn't leave my house and it was just like Wow, to go through all of that, to overcome it all and then to be standing here and championing for somebody else, like it just makes it feel like it wasn't for nothing, you know. Yeah, absolutely, that's

what I'm saying. I love that journey because I think when you can see it and wherever you are, if anyone who's listening or watching right now, wherever you are on that journey, that journey of you from school to the Capitol is full of tiny little steps. Yes, oh my gosh, it does not happen overnight. Yeah, It's just these tiny little steps, these tiny shifts, these tiny changes, and then you get this big moment where you get to stand up for something you believe in, which is beautiful.

One of the other habits that you wrote down, which I loved, was God's Spirit connect church on Sunday, And I was thinking, is that something that's been a part of your life since you were Yeah? I was. I was raised. My mom was a very new age growing up, and so at the time, like law of attraction and all that stuff was like very woo woo, and I didn't really tell kids at school that that's really what we were doing at home. But now now, of course everybody in LA does it, but which I love. But yeah,

it was like very normal for me. It used to go to Agape I don't know, if you know, Yeah, yeah, and so I grew up there like going to their kids room, and so I still watch it now even though it's you know, virtual, But yeah, I think my meditation practice too, is like a huge part of my mental health toolkit. And just sitting and getting quiet and connecting and feeling like there's something else, you know, or

there's meaning to all of this for me is really relieving. Yeah, And that's and has that been a habit that you've continued even during the pandemic. I guess you're saying virtually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, how has that been sustained during this time? Because I feel like being present with people is such a beautiful way for that connection. Yeah it is. It's tough when you can't be in the room. But I do virtual. I do virtual like meditation classes with unplug and I

do virtual. I just do virtual everything. Yeah, that's amazing. It takes a bit of I was actually saying that we I set up with two of my close friends, we set up meditation communities together during the pandemic, and so meet them and then their friends, their family every week on Zoom we meditate together. I guide the meditations, and it's just been so beautiful and meaningful because we've got all these amazing friendships that have come out of yeah Zoom. And I didn't even know half the people

on there. I didn't know anyone on there actually beyond this person. And now a year and a half year later, a year and a half later, I literally feel like I've got all these new friends. No, it's so weird, how like you make these Zoom friendships because we had to, Like, I this is nothing like what you were just saying.

But I was in like a French course over this last year, and like these two girls on my French course, I just flew out to Boston to meet them in real life because I was like, I feel like you're my real friends, and people are like, you've never met in person. I'm like, but you can't have after, you know, a year of zooming with somebody. Yeah. Absolutely, And you have to get creative in that way. You have to

realize that. I found that. What was really fascinating is I found that if you do something meaningful in the center of a group of people, whether it's virtual or physical, you create an amazingly deep bond. Yeah. But if you do something meaningless, whether it's physical or virtual, you actually don't feel close to those people, right. And so it's like the reason you're coming together is actually so much

more important than even coming together, right. Yeah. And I saw that just transform so much in my life in the last eighteen months, where relationships came from places I didn't expect them to because I didn't realize that even if you did something virtually but it was powerful and meaningful and purposeful, the quality of that relationship was far greater than if you just hung out on a zoom right, and so yeah, anyway, I don't know if that's useful.

I completely agree with you. Yeah, when when do you feel you're We're talking about this earlier, and we really talked about your mental wellbeing and your jenny with that. But you're such a creative, right, whether it's like djang, whether it's producing writing. I want to know when do you feel most creative? And what do you feel is your greatest superpower when it comes to creativity and when

you access you're like, oh, I felt that. That's tough because I feel like my creativity manifests in so many different ways. Like you know, I'm an actor and I'm a writer as well, and I consider myself a dancer. I'm not professional by any means, but I grew up dancing. That was like my first performative love. And so I feel like my most creative honestly, when I'm alone, Like

I really get into this. And maybe it's that like tortured artist thing that you kind of have to do, but really, when I'm alone and I sit and I get quiet, and in my meditations, that's where my podcast came from. I was sitting in meditation and I like opened my eyes. I like I have to do a podcast, you know what I mean, Like you kind of just

hear things. And so I think for me, and I'm so lucky that my partner, my boy, and he understands that, like for me to be creative, like I have to really sink in and before I have auditions or before I go, you know, on set, like I have to kind of have the day before to really just I think it's just really getting connected with yourself. Yeah, you know, I think that's why I need that quiet alan space. And so I think eliminating distractions for me is a

big thing. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I'm the same like before something big, whatever that may be for me, it's the same. I need to be alone and need to be quiet. I need to be in my own thoughts. Yeah,

my distractions. So I relate to that fully and I find that it's important what you just said there is a really big lesson, Like with the people that you love around you, it's important you explain that to them because otherwise they just start to think like they're doing something wrong or like they don't understand you, or they've made a mistake, and it's so important, Like what you just explained that, you know, my boyfriend understands that when

this is happening, that this is what I need. Yeah. I think that's such a healthy way of communicating. Yeah, I'm very lucky that my boyfriend is also all right or and director. It also needs like his own time, so it's like we were a great match. But yeah, explaining to him like, hey, it's not you, but like like if I have an audition like the night before, like you know, I need my time. I have to get into the character and like I'll call you right

when I'm out, you know. Yeah. And I love that the name of the podcast is exactly the sentence you would say during meditation, Am I doing this? Right? Yeah? I mean it's a question. We ask for a lot of things, but because you said you've got the idea why you were meditating, yeah, I was just like, yes, there are many times in meditation where the thought in

my head is am I doing this? Oh? Yeah? And I always tell people when they are afraid to start meditation, I'm like, there is no right way to do it. It's not I used to think meditation was levitating in your living room and like, you know, rising from the ground, and I was like, no, if you could just get quiet for like two minutes one minute, like and then now I'm like, I sit for thirty minutes every day. But yeah, I know a lot of people think, yeah,

am I doing this? Rise? This has supposed to feel like am I supposed to have like some profound that my epiphany is not normal meditation? Tell me about that meditation procys. You said you went from like one to two minutes to now thirty minutes a day, Like, what does that look like? What do you what are you doing for that thirty minutes? What time of day it is, and how are you practicing that? Um? I wake up first thing in the morning, let my dog out, and

then that's when I meditate. We get back inside. And I mean it started with just sitting for ten minutes and just learning how to follow my breath, which is great for anybody who's experiencing anxiety because when you can, you know, when you can lower your breath, you lower your heart rate and a lot of your anxiety symptoms go away. So that was like a being very practical

anxiety relief that helped me. But then I started to really love the spiritual side of it, and then it grew and now I'm doing I have crystals and their sage and it's a whole It's a whole thing's all. It's a production. Yeah, it takes a long time. My dog sitting there, like really, we have to do all

of this every time. I love that. That's so important though, because that creates so much like a foundation in your day and a certainty and like it creates an environment that you love walking into and yeah, and it's just like the best way for me to get in the right headspace to do things like this to you know, go out in the world. And I'm an introvert, so I have to like charge up before I go out.

You know, I can relate to that. Let's talk about that, because I reckon everyone who's listening to that's going you guys are not introverts. You're not an introvert. Yeah, no way, Yeah, definitely, Like I have to like self preserve, yeah so much to have energy. And if I go to an event, if it's my event, it's different, but if it's if I'm going to an event, I would just try and

find one person to have a deep, meaningful conversation. Yeah. Yeah, I won't introduce myself to everyone because not because I'm anxious or scared by it, but I just really like deep connection, yeah, more than I love you know, wide connection and yes, and that idea of just just being able to have like lots of small talk throughout the

night just doesn't fulfill me in the same way. And I also, I feel like I spent a lot of my life being an extrovert during my teens, but then I feel like I became more and more of an introvert because I realized the value of being alone, especially when it came to making big decisions, especially when it came to like sticking to my guns on an idea

I had and no one agreed with me. And as I started to realize that the more time I spent with people, the more their voice became louder, and I was like, no, no, but I want to follow my heart. Like so I feel like with all of that, like, my favorite thing to do, without a doubt on a weekend is sit with a bunch of books, make notes, read, yeah, listen,

learn like I do that. If my wife's traveling or not with me, I would literally just do that and I'll order in Oh, that's my favorite that's my favorite thing to do. You too, yoh oh yeah, yeah, same exactly, Like I mean, it's I feel like I'm an extroverted introvert where I can go out it's all coming out now, it's all coming out now. Yeah, it can be on, but then I have to go home and I can't see people for like three days and I have to

like completely go inward. And so yeah, it's it's just about charging and then like you know, going out and write, feeling purposeful when you are out, like having meaning when you're out and not just I do I too get drained, which just like, hey, how are you doing? What's the one? You know? All of that? Yeah, no, absolutely, And that's why your podcast is great because you're asking the question am I doing this right? And I think that that question is such that question is like we ask it

to ourselves all the time. Like I'll be sitting as an interviewer, think am I doing this right? I'm asking the right questions, and I do it when I'm an interviewee. Yeah, I'm being interviewed. I'm sitting aging am I doing this right? And then it happens when I'm writing my book, it happens when it's a question that we ask again and

again and again. What have you discovered by asking that question, by sitting and having these amazing discussions on the podcast, What have you learned about that question and understanding what is right? Well, it's very simple is that no one knows what they're doing and no one thinks they're doing

it right. And I think that's what's really bonded us with our listeners because I think they're like, Okay, finally someone else is like admitting that, like, we have no idea what we're doing, and we're supposed to pretend like we know how to do these things. Ours is like our podcast is a life how two podcasts. So we go through very confusing things in adulthood that you think you're supposed to know but you don't, really, Like, how do I file my taxes? What is a four oh one? K?

I don't know? If? Yeah? All these things that you're supposed to know and you don't. You're never taught in school. And it's like, Okay, we're gonna stop pretending that we have it all figured out, and we're gonna admit at least me and my co host, my best friend Natalie, are gonna mit, we don't know anything, and we'll figure

it out for you. Yeah. I love that. I love that because even for me, when I moved to the US, I had to learn a whole Oh yeah, that's why I was like, I don't know if you even know what a four one? K? Yeah? No do now? Yeah. But it's like when I moved to the US. So in the UK, I relied on my mom because my mom was like a financial advisory moment. Really my's an accountant, oh yeah, and my dad's an accountant. So I was like, Okay,

they've got me COVID, they'll figure it out. And then I moved here and I was like oh and then I was like trying to get help from them, but none of them could help me because everything's differ over here. Yeah, and so yeah, I've had to learn about every aspect of it, which it is so complex if you haven't learned it at school, I wonder whether you're going to do a crypto episode. We did a Crypto Amazing just

it's literally called a Preschooler's Guide to Crypto. I love and like when I tell you, we like our hand holding you because it was something that people have been talking about the use big words, and me and my brost friend are like, we are she's an art major, like she, we don't know any of this. We're creative people, and so we were like, we'll look it up and we'll explain it to you. We also like drink a glass of wine every episode, so it's fun and it's

not like a boring ted talk, you know. We wanted to be like you're going to drinks with your girlfriends and you're like, hey, like what's crypto? And you're like, oh, it's this. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and that's awesome, and I think that's how we want to learn. Yeah, you'll learn more through conversation than we do through like whiteboards and whatever it may be. It yeah, and that sort of approach. But what's been the most popular episode?

I mean treatued I always asked that question to someone who has a podcast, because I mean treat to hear about what people are like, really like wanting to learn what's been your most popular conversation that you have? We had a we did an episode on morning routines and we researched how billionaires start their day, and um, that one got a lot of hits. I think we don't

only do um like a personal finance. We started that way, and then we were like, wait, there's a lot of other things in adulthood, like we need to figure out, which is like morning routines, nighttime routines, you know, going We just did an episode on going to therapy and so, but that one we got a lot of hits on. I think because I don't know, people want to have successful mornings, like we said, like we were saying, like me, meditating in the morning, like starts my day off for success.

So very interesting. Yeah, Oprah wakes up at six ten am naturally without an alarm clock, which I was like, I can never do that. I love that. Yeah, No, I've read those. There's there's such incredible ones. Because I found that, I think it was like, and I might begin this wrong, but I when I looked at that, it was like sixty three percent of the most successful people in the world get like seven to eight hours

of sleep. They're actually getting their sleep, contrary to popular belief, which is that you have to sleep four hours if you want to be successful. No, a lot of them do. A lot of them woke up later than I did. I think somebody, and I don't want to say it was elon us, it was someone like woke up at ten or something. I was like, wow, like they're really getting a lot of sleep. Yeah, You're like I should just like up at ten like this? Yeah, why am I waking up early for? Yeah? No, it's I think

these things are so important to study. And I was saying this to someone earlier today that so a lot of people today we struggle because we're like, oh, well, we don't want to be compared to this ideal, or like why are we looking at what others are doing? But the truth is that you have two options when you're looking at success. You either look at success with envy or you look at success with study. But we

both have to look at it. So some people are looking at everyone going oh I wish I had that, or oh god, why they've you know, trying to be perfect or whatever. All we can look at it and say, well, what can I learn from that? Yeah? How do I apply that to my life? And I feel like studying health, healthy, wealthy, and wise individuals is a great way to live because it helps you figure out what parts of it you

want to apply to your life. Yeah, no, one hundred percent, and like, like I said, like I'm not going to naturally wake up at six am. It's just I'm going to need an alarm clock. But it is. It's one. It's interesting and too. I mean, I think you can start to like find little things that you can apply here and there. And the rest of the episode goes into just like healthy morning habits. We we only use like dot govs, dot org so that we don't just like pull from, you know, a random article, but we

find things that have, you know, real science behind it. Yeah, what's been a habit or a principle or a way someone lives or even a financial thing that surprised you? Are you like that's so cool? Like I didn't know that. Is there anything that stood out like that? I'll share one while you're thinking. For me. It was we had Russ on the podcast and I was obviously asking him questions about creativity and music, and he was saying that his favorite thing to do and we'll both align with this.

He was saying his favorite thing to do is get all of his friends out of the studio, not invite anyone over, go into the basement or go into the studio and make weird sounds that he would only make if he was on his own, that is, And so he literally like yells into the microphone. He makes a weird sound, he skims, and he goes, if I had my friends in there, would feel so judged. Yeah, I

wouldn't do that. So he goes, for me, the best creativity is being alone and just making weird noises, and then I'll discover something like, oh, I want to find an instrument like that. Yeah, like like, yeah, no, that's that's really really interesting. No, I mean I haven't had anything like that on our podcast yet. Um, I'm trying to think. I mean, like this was not as cool at all, So I don't want to say I'm just good. No,

we were. We were really surprised. We were looking up also, like in this Morning Routines episode, like what a lot of people eat in the morning, and you know, you've been like sold that you need to have like bacon and eggs. Most people have oatmeal, And I was like, I don't like oatmeal, but maybe I should try eating oatmeal because most billionaires eat oatmeal. Do you know why

that makes me rerappy? I've been eating oatmeal my whole life. Yeah, I recently switched to cheer pudding because I found out that I have a slight allergy to oats. Oh you do. Yeah, so I switched to cheer pudding, which is actually much nicer. So okay, well you're already on your way. I mean, yeah, you're already cheer putting blueberries strawberries. That's your that's your

Morning's such great, Okay that I need to be on that. Yeah, And like you said, it's all personally, you know, Like I ever, I did a micronutrient test recently, which is what helped me realize them. Yeah, I have a slight allergy to oats, but also like oats was leaving me feeling bloated or uncomfortable, whatever it may be, whereas cheer seed pudding has been amazing for me. So yeah, yeah, I guess we're going to redefine what billionaires eat in

the morning exactly. Doesn't have to be oatmeal, it doesn't have to be and like everyone makes and that's the whole thing, like my tool kit and like that's like it's a choose your own adventure thing. But I think when you have the knowledge of what to do, that empowers you to make the most conscious decision for yourself. Yeah, yeah,

what are you most excited about what you're creating right now? Like, what's a role that you're playing that you've just deeply dived into and you're just feeling it, or even if there's something coming up that you're just like, this is challenging me in a way that I know I'm growing. Yeah, I'm pretty sure right the time this comes out, this will be news. I just sold my first TV show, Congratulation. Yeah, yeah, two weeks ago, and so that has been such a

journey for me. I've been working on the show for like five plus years. I wrote it, I created it. Are you in it too? I'm in it as well? And so I just sold it. And so I think for me, this is like this new challenge for me. I've eped a show before, the one on Netflix, stat stop embarrassing me. But I've never been the creator and the writer and the ep and the actors. So I mean it's going to be this whole new ball game for me. Um. And so yeah, I'm really excited to

go down the path. I'm terrified, but again to circle back to the beginning, like I feel like I can do it. Yeah, absolutely, of course you can and congratulate. Thank you you share that with us, and I love that because it's such you're taking on just so much. I mean, to write, create, direct, and be in it. Which part of it do you enjoy the most? Or is it is that a bad question? They stretch different muscles.

You tell me about what they stretch, because I yeah, I get that, Like what what does each part of it do for you personally? I again, I'm a very type A type person, so I need the like rawness. And then then the role in the in the show for myself is, um, she has this beautiful journey and this beautiful evolution of self and discovery and so like to be able to be in her shoes, I'm so

excited to do. But then also like from my producer side, like my type A side, like I can't wait to get everything in line and like get our cast set and like I like checking boxes and so like that's gonna give me, um, that's gonna like feed that side of myself. So it's like this perfect balance of like

my creativities just being stretched in both ways. Life coach and therapist is really what it is there, you go, I love it what do you think the most scariest thing you've ever taken on and the most like challenging thing you've ever taken on? Is this going to be it? Or what's up to now? What's been that thing? Personal? There's been a there's been a few, but I would say professional. Um. I did a live special on ABC

of Good Times. It was a live performance. We were doing a one night only thing with Jimmy Kimmel was hosting it. Viola Davis was playing my mother. I was playing like an iconic character, Thomba Evans, and it was terrifying. Also, Tiffany Hatch was in the cast, and it was an incredible cast. And then like imposter syndrome me and I'm like, what am I doing here? Can I I've never done a play before and essentially this is what this is and it's live for a million people. So it was

absolutely terrifying. But the way I coped with that fear was to come in so prepared that nothing could shake me. I knew this performance frontwards backwards. I did it every day, ten times a day. My boyfriend was like going to go crazy because I was just saying my lines, saying my lines, But it worked out because you get there and you're nervous and you're like, at least I know

my lines totally. I remember that. Except the funny thing for me is, and I'm sure you've experienced this whenever you turned out with all that prep and known your lines, they always change your lines on the day. Luckily, we were going from original episode, so we could not we weren't going to go from a script, but that does always happen. Yeah, No, I love that, Yeah, because I

always get there. I'm like, but having said all of that, what you just said is spot on that when you've done that prep, you actually feel that you can adapt to whatever's thrown at you, right, And that's what I've learned with being an actor, And it's like, when you really know your script, that's when you can play. But when you're sitting there remembering your lines, you're not present,

you're not in the scene. And so like, I applied that there, which wasn't an acting thing, and I was just like, the more I know my lines are more fun. I'm going to have doing this because this is the scariest thing I've ever done. Yeah, I love that. I love that, all right, I Karen, I could Karen talking to you for fun for hours and hours and hours. But we end every episode of On Purpose with the

final five. Okay, so these are the fast five. Questions have to be one word to one sentence maximum, okay, So it can be whatever sentences. I don't know, having words, nine words, I don't know. Whatever is okay. So the first question is what is the best advice you've ever received? Always save a little love for yourself. Oh I love that. That's such I've never heard that before. That's beautiful. What's

the worst advice you've ever received? Um? That wearing uggs was a good idea, because I have a lot of horrible red carpet moments when when I was ten years old and I look back and I'm like, why would I wear ugs on a red carpet? Can? You didn't choose those? Did you? Or you did? I probably did, I don't know. I love that. All right. We'll get you excited and gets you excited when you're waking up out of bed every morning. My sisters tell us more,

I'm gonna, okay, explain, gonna have to. I'm intrigued the head. Oh yeah. My sisters are thirteen and fourteen, and I look forward to hearing about their days every day because they're at this pivotal age that really the age I was doing this with anxiety, and to see them growing and changing every day, it makes me so excited. And also I'm just so hopeful with all of gen Z. They're incredible, Like you guys have it way more put together than we do. I love that question number four,

what is your current purpose? So how would you define your carrent purpose being a voice for those that feel silenced? I love that fifth question. If you can, and this can be gone longer, if you could meet your younger self again today, your fourteen year old self, what would you tell it. It's funny because I answered this question today, but I would tell her it gets better. I was also bullied in high school, and there was a time in which you feel like it's the end of the world.

And I wish I could go back to that girl and be like, it doesn't only get better, it gets spectacular and it keeps going and you're only going to go up from here. And I think when you're that age, you just everything feels like the end of the world and it doesn't. It isn't, And yeah, it hasn't been. That's beautiful, Karen. Thank you so much for being so vulnerable, so open, so generous with your time and also your energy, and just I think everyone's gonna listen to this. It's

gonna have a great time. I think there's moments where we're laughing, there's moments where people having really profound moments. And I love just how what I really admire about you is just how focused you are on your well

being and yourself. And I find that that's such a brilliant foundation for all the success you're creating from it, because often you find that people are doing a lot of successful things, they're making things happen, but their personal health and wellness is kind of all over the place. And so I really appreciate that, and I think you're setting a wonderful example of how that's the foundation of everything that's to come. Oh, thank you so much, Thank

you so much, with such an honor. Seriously, I can't believe I was on your podcast again, Oprah was on your podcast? How am I on your podcast? No, you were here because you are showing all generations to come just how to figure out our life step by step. Keep that love for ourselves, remove that self judgment, beat that impast syndrome. I mean, this is exactly what we

all need to hear. If you've been listening or watching at home, I want to make sure that you tag me and Karin on Instagram, on Twitter, on any platform you're listening on, and let us know what were the takeaways, What the nuggets of wisdom that Karn said that you're going to repeat. Maybe you're gonna say it to yourself, maybe you're gonna say it to your kids, maybe you're

gonna say it to your parents. Whoever you're gonna say it to, Please do tag both of us because I love seeing what you're learning and what you're taking away Karren. Any final words or anything you want to share. Oh my god, I know again this has been such an honor, and I mean I am such a huge fan of you and your wife. I said that when I first walked out here, I was like, where's your wife? And so no, it's it's been so great talking to you. Thank you so much. Thank you