When you're on the field, kill the other dude. When you're not on the field, you don't have to.
Kill the other dude.
But when you're on the field you want to win. You just have to realize when you're not on the field. The problem is I think people don't realize when they're not.
On the field. The best selling are there on the Post, the number one health and wellness podcast and Purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week
to listen, learn and grow. Now you know that I'm fascinated about speaking to people from different backgrounds, different walks of life, people who've made interesting choices, decisions, had life events that have changed the trajectory of their journey, and I like diving into the insights that they have, the wisdom that they have, some of the mistakes and failures that came along the way as well. And today's guest
is one of those individuals. I'm talking about, the one and only Aril Emmanuel, chief executive officer of Endeavor, a global sports and entertainment company home to many of the world's most dynamic and engaging stories, including me brands, live events, and experiences. The company is composed of industry leaders, including entertainment agency, Sports, fashion, events and media company IMG and
premier Mixed Martial Arts organization UFC. In two thousand and nine, Ariel orchestrated the largest talent agency merger in history when Endeavor, the agency he founded in nineteen ninety five, joined forces with agency William Morris to form WME. Now we're about to dive into his story. He doesn't do a lot of podcasts. We're very lucky. Please welcome to the show and on purpose. Ariel Emmanuel ari thank you for being here,
Thank you for having me. Yeah, you've had quite the journey and or we're just talking about it.
When I was in the mailroom, you know, they're the Thomas Guide fifteen cents a mile.
I was figuring out because your highest is.
And maybe we don't want to let people know where it is way up in the hills. I would have never been able to get here using a Thomas Guide. Thank god, there's you know, ways and Tesla their system.
So yeah, I wondered what that was like. When you were like meeting clients, You're like it was horrible. It wasn't horrible.
Actually you realize how to get around. It was a great experience that, oh so if I'm booking, if I'm going to be in the valley and I have that thing that it does take forty five minutes to get there, so once you kind of it was actually the right steps. And a lot of people went through the mail.
Whether it be very Diller, David Geff and Mike Go.
I mean, everybody did it, and I would have never been able to get here though using the Thomas Guide.
That's good, That's that's aging me saying the Thomas Guide. Well, no, I remember my parents. We used to drive to Europe because my parents couldn't always afford to fly, and so we'd have the A to Z in England, which is like this big map, A to Z big map that they'd pull out and then track it across like physical map, and then we'd have one for Europe, one for like Crazons in Switzerland, and so we'd drive over and I'd see my parents like pull over and oscar instructions. It
was it was a different world. And you've watched that, and I mean, you're still looking credit for I'm like I'm like when yeah, you haven't aged yourself at all, But when I think about how much times have changed, Like, what is if you could say that these are the couple of the biggest changes you've seen in the last three decades in this industry, in the world that you're most astounded by, because I think we're getting used to change.
I think, for I didn't grow up with a phone, Like I got my first phone when I was thirteen or fourteen, and it was a Sony Ericsson like brick with a little antenna. Yeah, the flip phone. Yeah, it was one of those. Yeah, one of those old flip phones Sony Ericson had a little you know, antenor on top of it. My mom had one of the big, like chunky brick style phones. But I feel like we're getting so used to change, being so rapid that we
actually don't spot patterns. If you've spotted any patterns over the last three decades, what would you say they are?
I don't know if there's patterns, you know, but I think you have to look at them in different sectors, whether it be tech, whether it be the entertainment business. The one pattern I do see changes happening a lot faster. So the pick up the phone probably took seven years. The speed of adaptation, the one big change, it's just now happening very quickly, and that just lets people you better be really comfortable in the uncomfortable and change. And
that's a mindset, that's a process to get to. That's what you have to realize. It's happen and all this is going to happen a lot quicker now, which is I don't think it's good or bad, it just is what it is.
Yeah, I love what you just said there. So my entire show I just went on a world tour, and the entire show was based on the premise of getting the audience to sit in discomfort. So I would literally bring up random audience members and one of them was locked in a box on stage for fifteen minutes alone without any sound. We had other audience members come up and have to do toss the uncomfortable. I love the
idea of getting comfort. You better breathe through it. You better breathe through that's the only way to do it. I was going to ask you, like, how have you trained your mind to be comfortable with discomfort?
I'm not sure any of us are really comfortable with ourselves as we mature and kind of get.
Into I said this to a client today.
I said, there was a period of time I just didn't want anybody to find out that I really wasn't that bright, and it was you know, I was scared, right, And that I think goes back to my childhood and being dyslexic and not believing that you know, I'm okay, I'm not stupid. Right in my family, stupid was the definition and smart with them. But I started fasting, and once you start doing.
It, it's not comfortable.
And I just started telling, you know, start that little voice. No, I'm not giving a hand to that little voice. No, I'm getting up, even though I don't want to get up. And then it's that conversation you're constantly Is that, somebody said, my constant negotiation with myself.
And now it's.
If I meditate for twenty minutes every day, it's not easy sitting there for twenty minutes your toe, which is something you got to get through it. And it's just oh, I'm going to do a cold bath for five minutes every day. That's not fun, and it's just teaching your body. No, you can get through this. I'm not listening to that voice. I'm just breathing through it. I'm just getting through it.
And it's been probably fifteen years of that.
And it translates into business because then, okay, we're taking over IMG. I'm going to move to London for four months. Kids in the family is going to be on the East Coast for the summer, and it's going to be brutal, and yeah, you can do it, or at the UF any of these new tasks that you take on because you're telling yourself a story that whether it's going to be good or bad, that's not the truth. You have to just realize that thing's not the truth and you just have to go through it.
Yeah, it's not going to be easy. So what who cares? Like, Yes, that's part of the process.
That's actually part of the interesting thing that we're all doing. So yeah, no, I love that because it did start though with not eating.
Yeah.
Interesting, you know the when I started learning about what fasting does or eating windows do to your body and autophagy and et cetera, et cetera, that then got your mind, Okay, I can do this, and then you just start building on that. I probably passed the point of health emotionally healthy.
But yes, I'm way past it. But yeah, no, but I love that because that's super practical, right, Like, that's not an ethereal concept. The idea is you were able to put yourself through things that you didn't want to do, no, but that were actually good for you. And I find that that's why I hope yeah. Yeah, but the idea that most of what we don't want to do, that we choose to do is actually what helps us get ahead in life.
I say said this to my kids. You know, success is a lot of the things we're talking about. One of it is and that goes to kind of putting yourself showing up. Like there's a voice saying, you mean, I gotta get on that plane for sixteen hours, I gotta just go have a lunch and I gotta fly back from China.
I don't want to do that.
Okay, it said, I don't want to do it, that little voice, I'm doing it, and learning to say, oh that's the voice. No, I'm getting on the plane and showing up kind of going through it. Yeah, that's that's part of growing up and being successful. A lot of people are too lazy to fight that voice. And over time, when you get older, and I'm a lot older than you, you don't.
Want to fight the voice. And all the things I do now is I think because as you get older, that voice takes over more and more. It's easy, you know, don't get up at five o'clock and work out. No, don't do this, and I do it. I don't care. As soon as soon as that voice turns on, I'm doing this. Yeah, it's really interesting you say that, because I feel like a lot of people say they can't hear they're in a voice, and it's because that in
a voice they're just not listening. It was so loud when we were younger, yes, but it gets quieter and quieter and quiet because the other voice. We kept listening to it, and it got louder and louder and louder, and so now we're having to unlearn that loud voice.
And for me, it was for me, it started with fasting periods. You know, I do twenty four and I do sixteen, and sometimes of forty eight or sixty. And it's then kind of evolved into multiple things to keep it exercised that I cannot listen to the voice.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you need friends who pushed you to I remember a few years ago, you know, whether it was skydiving or whether it was cold plunges. As you mentioned there, it's like you need to be surrounded by a community. I just literally, I've got some friends from London staying with me right now this week, and I took them to do a cold plunge with me. You know, every day we've been doing a hike. Every morning, we've been doing infrared so ona and they don't do that.
They don't do that, They've never done it before, and it was just interesting they do on their cold plunch they did really well, and they were saying that because we were I was like trying to coax them through it and helping them breathe. So on their first time they did the first one. One of them did four minutes and they had did three on their first time. Incredible. It was amazing after get past the first minute exactly exactly.
So it was a brilliant result. But it was that idea of your community of people around you when you were I love what you just said there that you were scared at one point in your life of being figured out as not being so smart. And you said that came from your childhood and yeah, you had ADHD dyslexia.
From what I've researched, walk me through how that idea stays even after you're starting to see success, because I think people believe that when you become successful, when you close your big deal, when you build a company, that some of that goes away. You know. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Did you see that documentary, which one the most recent one that he did, just about him kind of growing up in bodybuilding. I don't think so, I don't see this.
So he talks about, you know, he won mister Olympia and everybody was telling him how great his body was, right, and they're all looking at like, oh my god.
In his head he was saying this is wrong. That's wrong, this is wrong. And you're like, nobody would have said that to me. You know, some people say it's your in a voice, your shadow. My shrink used to tell me it's your shadow. Maybe people were thinking I was successful. I was thinking about that kid that couldn't read and that during passover didn't want to read the questions because because I was the youngest and going into this sewing.
That's why I hate pass over now, the anxiety I had when I was a kid, and so it's just kind of upbringing. I'm no longer dealing with those issues. It's not like I'm beating my chest all. I'm successful, but I'm comfortable. And it's that and a good way drove me like I'm going to.
Prove everybody wrong. And you know, any bully comes up to me, Yep, we're going to get in a fight. Anybody calls me stupid, Yep, we're going to get in a fight. Physic You know, that's when I was young, and it's just held over and then there's the point in time where you're saying, Okay, I'm not doing this anymore. I have to deal with these crazy, stupid fellows.
Yes you're successful, Yes it's okay, nothing's being taken away from you. And so that just came with age.
A lot of shrinks and a lot of other therapies that we'll get into later. Yeah, but I think it's really important because I think there's two things there. One is that it doesn't go away on its own. No, revenge is not the solution or proving someone kind of I would say a good way to stop revenge. And I would say anger got you to a certain point. You after you get to a certain point. If you stay with anger and resentment and fear, you only can get to a certain point in your life.
And once you make the transition that you know something that's never going to get me over the hump and you have to go a little deeper. And that's scary and takes work.
When you know, when you sit and yoga, I don't know what it is, it just opens up things to come to you and the process to come to you. And that's what happened at you know, I don't know when it really happened, probably twelve fifteen years ago that I was on this journey to kind of find out I don't want to be that guy that's somebody says something I go to Code red nine. That's not healthy.
That's way too much energy. Yeah, it's emotional energy that you know is exhausting, absolutely, and that's what it is. It's exhausting, it's draining, and it takes away from that creative energy, the spark that's I let things in that actually need to come in.
That then you can see the world differently and like wait a second, Like you're not saying it through those eyes, you're seeing it.
Through a different like way. What about this? What about that you can be creative? That's a better place to be. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I wanted to ask you as well. I mean you probably get usd this all the time, but I think it's important contact setting for everyone who's listening. The idea of like sitting in the discomfort as you were talking
about it. My wife and I huge entourage fans, and I can imagine that it's cool but uncomfortable to have your image displayed it a certain way that has pros and cons. And there was and there was aspects of that character one hundred percentro which but you know, I was very aggressive and you know when we started the business, we couldn't compete on price because commissions were commissions. There was five other big players and we just had a one be more creative, two more aggressive.
And uh and fight. So yeah, that was true to form. I mean not all of it, but in the surrounding it. Yes, I don't know what entourage would be now that character.
Yeah. So yeah, and what what was stuff for you? Like that's definitely not me? Like, were there anything no TV candidate. That show gave me anxiety. Yeah, I can, That's what I'm saying.
It gave me a lot of So I didn't watch a lot and people now watch it.
I mean, during we watched the pandemic.
I got a lot of calls from guys I know that had kids, and the kids started watching kids and college started watching, and I was like, yeah.
Yeah, I didn't see that episode.
You know, I did watch the episode, which I never did. I think he started using squirt gun on people. I didn't see that.
I mean, I did see that, but I didn't do that. It's good to know you didn't use That's important. How have you harnessed or how has your aggression matured in business? Because the reason why I raised that is because I think, you know, we kind of swinging pendulums in the world.
So if you think about business back then and how we viewed Wall Street, and even when I was growing up, like the dream was to be an investment bank, and that's what everyone was becoming in London and that was the big goal when I was a kid, And did you want to become one? I wanted to become one without knowing what it was. Yeah, right, like, you know,
that's what happens. And I went to cast Business School and did management science, and I was training to go off into the corporate world because that's what I thought you had to.
Don't you remember when you were growing up, the objective was how big the stack was? Yes, I never had that objective, they're saying, for whatever reason my parents didn't.
That was not.
The objective was to do well in the world and make the world a better place. All absolutely, and I think allow of my friends that was how big.
Is the stack? Totally same for me. I didn't grow up with a lot. My parents didn't have a lot, but they always gave in charity, They helped the community. My mom did a ton of community work. And then I obviously met monks when I was eighteen years old, so like that became my paradigm shifted massively, and I was always far more creative than anything else, and that's
what I enjoyed. But I guess the question I'm asking is, I think we've gone from that very aggressive, very competitive, brash, harsh energy and then we swing to this pendulum where everyone's like, well, no, you just got to be fully like, empathetic and vulnerable and compassion. I'm like, so how do you Yes, So here's what it is. What is the middle ground balance? Because the ance is always somebody.
Here's somebody, a really smart person. I won't say who told me.
You have to know.
And this only comes with time and maturity. When you're on the field. When you're on the field, kill the other dude. When you're not on the field, you don't have.
To kill the other dude for you.
It's got to be a good deal for me, it's got to be a good deal, et cetera. But when you're on the field, you want to win. You just have to realize when you're not on the field. The problem is I think people don't realize when they're not on the field. And that has come over time. Like when am I on the field, Okay, when I'm on the field, I'm playing to win. When I'm not on the field, I can be in a different mindset. That
shift for me going to fear Anger. I always thought I was on the field and for a long time to get the company where I wanted, I was always on the field.
Now I don't have to.
Be on the field all the time, and that not being on the field enables you to think properly and just let things in and grow.
That gets you to other things that.
Al sudden affect the field in a different way. You have different moves. It's probably how great players as they get older, Lebron James, Michael Jordan, their bodies are not the same, but they're better players because they just know how to do it differently. So when I'm not on the field, I'm not on the field. When I'm on the field, I'm playing pretty hard.
Yeah, that's a really unique inside. I like that because I feel like that's also what challenges people in their personal relationships, because not only have people not on and off the field in business, they don't know how to switch it off when they go home, and so your wife and your kids, or your husband or your partner or whoever it may be, ends up getting that same treatment as you do at work because you haven't reached that maturity level of knowing how to And it's not
as easy as a light switch. Oh no, Like it's not just oh I'm work off work hat on. It doesn't work like that. And your partner, depending on what they do, you might be off the field, they might be on. They want to be on the field because they're going through their things. It's just like, that's what it is. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we just I just got back from tour and we went to Bali for a couple of weeks just to relax with me and
my wife. And it's so funny because she's she's a vegan chef and recipe developer and incredible w knows everything about irada and herbs and nutrition and she's made me very healthy compared to what I used to be. But she's on the field right now because her career is booming. She's doing incredibly well and it's so fun to watch. And it's so funny because I was like, yeah, we're going to Barley. She's like, you know what, I think
we're going there for a bit long. And I was like that was me, Like I used to say that like five years ago. And so it's just like, Okay, it's not only your life. Yeah, you have two people and you just have to navigate. Oh, I'm not gonna feel shit. Okay, I got to think about this. Maybe even though I want to be there three weeks, maybe it's only a week and a half. Yeah, yeah, and I'll just be off the field. Here, I'll figure out
what to do. Yeah, yeah, And I think it's hard because I think, yeah, we struggle when you've done for other people too, when you've said things when you're on the field. It's hard for the person, especially in business for now, to view you differently when you're off the field. It's every marriage, every relationship, every personal situation changes after ten years I was, I'm not the same person.
I was from ninety five to two thousand and five. I'm not the same person from two thousand and five to twenty fifteen. I'm definitely not the same person from fifteen now. And yeah, people's viewpoints of me is probably what it was in ninety seven ninety eight night. And let me just say something that guy was not. I mean, he was a good guy, but he was always on the field and he was a shame nervous, angry fighter.
Not that I'm not aspects of those things, working on them, but yeah, yeah, that changes.
It's and when they come into your relationship, they have all this now, they can read everything, see everything and like, oh, that's the guy, yeah or not. That's why I'm doing this, dude. I'm just a gentle, nice hugging. Well, no, I I the reason why I always enjoy these conversations is because I think I struggle with that in perception too, where I feel people believe that someone who is mindful or meditative has to be a certain way at all times.
Do you know when you're on the field. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. And that's why I love that piece of advice is that you you said it in a way that I think makes it so easy to think about. And that's why I really appreciate it. And that's exactly what it is for me, Like, and my team knows that they can see that when I'm in the zone and I'm not or where I'm winning my home kid or away kit like however you put it, Like, yes, I totally
like that kid. Yeah howay JZ right, Like and I can feel that and I think that you have to know that. But I think the idea is that we like to simplify people because it makes it easier.
For us if you're going after the stack and that's the goal, right, which is like crazy, Like I agree, it's so arbitrary, the stack. You're always on the field.
Yeah.
What you don't realize is you can be happy at whatever the level.
Of the stack is. Yeah, there's just a different way to think about it, and you will get to a very big stack by figuring out this first. If when you're on the field, when you're off the field, absolutely, and I think that's the difference. I wanted to ask you the difference in success and happiness or success and contentment, because you've it sounds like you've worked on both and tried to be conscious of both. How have you seen the difference and how do you work on I was.
Never content before probably the first twenty years of business. I mean I was just I was going to prove everybody wrong. I was going to prove to myself I wasn't stupid, and I was just running hard. When I say this word, that doesn't mean that I'm not in business. I'm content and all the things I thought about that I wanted to accomplish and how I saw the world
kind of played out. I'm a really lucky guy. I'm comfortable that I'm not stupid, and I got a lot more I want to accomplish because I want to accomplish it, not to get the stack any bigger, and I'm happy doing that. That's a completely different place from the first twenty years where I had no idea.
I just.
I thought about the stack and what success was in such a different way than I think about it now.
And do you think everyone there's that brilliant quote from Jim Carrey where he said that everyone should become rich and famous and achieve everything they ever wanted, just to realize that it's not the point. Do you think that there was some I had that Yeah, yeah, that's genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that statement because I feel like this there's something about pursuing success as you see it, which may not be a perfect definition, experiencing some success then going wall,
wait a minute, this wasn't it. And I feel like, because you always hear successful people say oh it isn't there, but it's almost like I think, oh, I'm happy where I am. Yeah, I'm really I'm so glad that it played out. Those statements are actually accurate, you know, like it's enabled me now to kind of when I started this twelve years or whatever, yeah, to get to this place. I'm not sure I would have ever gotten to it. Yeah,
with a different mindset. Yeah. Yeah. And in ninety five you had a big accident, right like there was something that it was ninety It was ninety three, ninety three.
I was working at ICM. There was a breakfast place called Cape Mandalini's. It was walking down Whilsher. It was about three blocks away coming back, and I and just sitting on the curb. I said to myself, I was going to the breakfast, like, wow, you know I got to move back from this curve.
These cars could hit you. And I was not in the street.
Cut to I'm walking back from breakfast in the crosswalk right outside of where the ICM building was, and a flatbed truck didn't see me, took a left on to Wilshire hit my left side. Nine o'clock in the morning, Friday. Guess what happens? Your life changes you like life not address rehearsal.
I was laying in there.
I just wiggled my fingers and toes, I said, okay, I'm not crippled, kind of. I was outside my body screaming. I was laying there watching myself scream, and then I just set myself Life's not address rehearsal. I did a rehab because I couldn't bend my leg, and then I did a surgery on my leg. And then I did another rehab, so that was eighteen months of hell. And then I said what do you want to do? And I definitely didn't want to be at ICM.
You know.
Was what was the phrase I used to hear when I was at ICM back and anything. It was like I cover myself. That's what it stood for.
So there was.
No camaraderie culture or anything.
And so.
Me and three other guys decided to start when I could be healthy, and we kind of get it in ninety five, on my birthday March twenty ninth, we let loose so and that that was the catalyst to say, why it's not a dress rehearsal you but to get to what you want to get to. And that kind of thesis is at the twenty year mark, change in how I look at life? And am I still going to be that angry guy? And you know all the different routes we all taken our lives to get to where the end is.
So, yeah, did you try and change aspects of the coach based on that statement that you built or did you find that I.
Just wanted to treat people well, you know inside and share clients and communicate better and there's a guy named Phil Raskin the first employee, and they fired him. In the Israeli Army. You don't let anybody stay, you know, you take you go, get the bodies.
I said, you're hired now.
We had no money, we're not making any money. And I said, we're hiring you if they're firing you. And how we treat people was kind of the crucial thing different about how we did things. I think one of them and I think it's progressed. I don't know if it's perfect now. You'll have to ask the guys running the agency right now. But I think overall, I hope people feel that way.
What was it like building something from scratch when there wasn't any money, Because I feel like it's easy to look at you now and ever you know, it's well it was two years, yeah, and no salary because you're out on your own.
There's well, we were being we were we were in a tussle with ICM over commissions and because we couldn't take the commissions because they say they deserved it, because we're in a content this whole like, and they were going to sue us for certain things, and and so we had no money. I mean we knew things. We had money, but a lot of stuff was old stuff. About a year and a half, two years in we settled. I might be getting dates wrong, but right around then and then we had money.
And and in that period of time the world changed.
Mike Olvias left the business who was the god and Ron Meyer, Bill Haber and then Gavin Palone left this company UTA, and a lot of shifting happened, and we had put on we had taken a couple people from c A. Marty Allen and and we put on a bunch of TV shows that were successful. And we had money because of those, because they were going into syndication and packages and so it was like free agency in baseball. We have money and people are like shifting what are're doing?
And we were home. We got you know, we're just timing and we were in the right place at the right time.
What was the hottest thing you had to do in those two years? You just had to work, you know, with nobody putting the time, just putting the time, and you were doing seventeen hour eighteen hour days. Wife was pregnant at the time, my ex wife with our eldest and uh keep on building and how are we going
to do it? And you know, the five of us, I think Marty had joined and then two and a half years in Patrick Whitesell had joined, and just kind of how we keep on progressing and doing it like with no none of us had ever done it before. We were all, as my father was saying in Yiddish, we were all pitchers, you know, the small nothings, and so we just figured it out. But but you know, it wasn't like, oh we went from no money to her. Yeah, it was nothing and we were happy. Yeah, we're really
happy because we were in our own heads. It was successful and it was hard, but we had fun. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I couldn't be more excited to share something
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make sure you use the code on Purpose. Yeah. While I was a student and before I ever started doing things online, I used to do events in my local area in London and like ten people would show up every week to hear me speak about spirituality, psychology, human behavior and I loved it. I did it for ten years before you get to school to possibly be a banker. Yeah, and then what what not that this we're going to reverse the interviewwh what was the transition to, like, Oh,
I don't want to do this. What happened in your mind? Or life event? So I think life event that I met a monk, and I'd never met at work before at school, so they would come in, we'd have speakers come in, whether it'd be CEOs or athletes or celebrities or former alumni or whatever it may be. And one day a monk was invited to speak at a small college session and some of my friends would getting a
business session. No no, no, not a business just a general like yeah, And I was invited to go because some of my friends were getting into meditation at the time. This is early like we're talking about like two thousand and six, two and seven, So we were doing that and it was and my friends were kind of getting into that space. So they were telling me to come along, and I was like, yeah, i'll go if we go to a bar afterwards, like that's the kind of guy I was growing up. And so I went along and
you weren't married at design? Oh no, I'm eighteen years old. I'm eighteen years old. I'm you know, how to start college around that time. And so I go to this event and I hear this monk speak and I'm kind of there going Okay, when are we going to leave? Like who cares about this stuff? Well? How does this benefit my life? And I actually walked away feeling completely just reflective because this monk was saying that the greatest gift was to use your skills in the service of others.
Like he was saying that whatever you've been given, that was his main thing, that was his main theme, to improve other people's lives. And it was like, I'd never heard that from anyone before at eighteen, And I realized that when I was eighteen, I'd met people who were rich and famous and beautiful. You thought that was a stack, Yeah, But I was like, this is this guy seems happy, he seems content, he has something that at what point in the lecture did that like hit you? Because at
one point you're sitting it. Let's go get some beers. Yeah. At the beginning, I was kind of like, Okay, what is he going to say when he came out and you know, he's dressed in robes and he he was from India, and like, you know, I'm a kid in London, Like you know, there's nothing externally attractive about him. And then as he spoke, like as I actually listened to him, I was just mesmerized, and so I said to him, I just want to follow you around. So I ended
up following him around for the rest that week. He was doing events in London homes and different things, and then at temples. And then I started visiting him in my summer on Christmas vacations in India, and then when I graduated from college, I went and actually lived with him as a month for three years in India and the UK. And when your parents said, they were like completely like yeah, and all of our friends and family he's been brainwashed. It was it was like it's really
interesting because and I'll talk to this about perception. It's really interesting because everyone now is kind of like, oh, Jay, you just you know, this is a good story, and I'm like, dude, when I chose to become a monk, it was not a good story. People thought it was the dumbest idea of all time, Like it was like career suicide. It was poor kid, what happened? Like, what happened to this kid who got a first class on his degree at university? Straight a's you know, like what
is going on here? And all of a sudden, I'm taking this part. Your parents must have freaked out. My parents freaked out, and my extended family freaked out even more, which made my parents freak out more. They came from India, correct, So that upbringing and that going back that way, Oh my god, yeah, exactly so, but I felt cooled. I started listening to my inner voice when I was fourteen
years old, and it's been so loud ever since. I don't know any other way to go, and so for me, it was so so loud, And so that was the shift in my trajectory where you come out After three years, I hoped I'd do it forever and that I really thought I was going to do it for the rest of my life. It did not work out. So what
was whit? Why? A couple of things. One thing was like, it's super tough on your health to live communally, like when you're living potentially sometimes with thirty people in a room, one hundred people in a room. People wake up at different times. You're being woken up by everyone, the common cold, you're sharing bath showers like you know, like the space is like everything's communal in that space. It's hard on my It was hard on my immune system to live
in that way. Of course, I'm a kid from London, like I didn't grow up with lots of comforts, but it was definitely more comfortable than a monastery. And then on top of all of that, I just had this honest transparency. And that's what monk teachings are meant to do. It's meant to make you self aware, and my self awareness. I'm quite independent. I'm quite a rebel, like I like doing things my way, and I fish is not that this is not that I feel like I want to
share what I've learned in this cool, accessible, relevant way. World. Yeah, where the world is, which is the world I come from? And if I stay here then I'm actually going to be pretending to be someone I'm not. And so it's like I'm going to go back, and you know, that's that's that's a big that's a big thought. It was, it was, and I had no idea what that meant then, but I just know that it was loud, and that it was real, and that it had happened. It had
to happen. It was you know. I think it's it's funny your your brother said this about you. He said that, he said this in his book Brother's Manual. The speed, danger and risk that make other people nervous make guys like Ari serene. And and it's and I want to dive into that with you. But for me, that's what it was that you didn't know where it was, but you knew you had to be on that road. Yes, And and I don't know how to stop myself. I
can't pretend to myself. Is where I've always been, like, I have to be all of myself, and i'm and when decisions are against the grain and no one agrees, chances are'm on the right path. And so even when I came back then I had the opposite where everyone around me was like, you wasted three years. Look at everyone around you. They've got jobs. Now what are they saying now? Yeah, well, I mean obviously it changes now. Obviously it changes now, But but it isn't, isn't it.
I had this, I sent this email out to the company. You know, most people think success is this, Yeah, that's success, and that you just it's your journey, yeah, and it's just you don't know where it's still going, but it's probably gonna go this way and it's going to go that you know.
Yeah, how how have you had the courage going back on that same point, how have you had the courage to be open to speed, danger and risk when other people thought? Especially what what I think we don't recognize is as you become more successful, as you make bigger decisions, it's not that just more doors open. Sometimes there's even more doubt because now people are like, can you can you get the next one? Right? Most people don't want to risk it all correct, once you get to something
like why would I risk that? Correct? Like, why do that? You're it's going to be on a perfect life path. So I've said this before in.
Certain interviews, I don't remember exactly which one. When you're in a class and you're figuring out where to sit in the class because you think you've psychologically figured out if I said here, the teacher won't call on you to read. And you're so anxious and you're so nervous, and you're so afraid It's not like I don't get anxious about big deals. I mean, I got really sick doing the UFC deal, moving that I am moving to London.
Not great for four months when we took over it, right, Yeah, so what you know, I'm not nervous about those things.
I don't know why. It's just my upbringing, you know, things I went through that I could get over. So working hard, doing all the things, showing up, you know, getting on that plane for the lunch in China and then flying back after the lunch.
That's kind of how I operate my life.
I don't know how what my mom fed me or did and my dad. But yeah, I'm not worried about the hard work and all of it takes hard work, as you know. And I'm not trying to prove to anybody what. I'm not letting their definition of success, not success, what I should do, what I shouldn't do, dictate what I want to do. Like you, I got my own ideas about what I want to do. I just keep on following them. Hopefully I keep on getting in tune with my voices, definitely listening to people in my life
that I trust. But then you know, it's like Okay, it's time to bet like we just did with WWE and doing something new, and here's what we're going to do. Yeah, those are not easy decisions.
And yeah, it's really interesting because even I'm very comfortable and the uncomfortable, I'm really comfortable, and the uncomfortable I think when most people don't like uncomfortable conversations, don't like to be uncomfortable, business don't like that. I do enjoy that a lot. I like awkward. I'm comfortable and awkward. I like just saying what it is. I do not care. You can like me, not like me. I was never
one of the cool guys. I'm good. I think it was so funny because Mike Milkine was sitting and you see yesterday just here, And it was interesting because there's this shared experience of there's a healed sense of self worth, but then there's this embracing our own insignificance, like you just said you're like, we're I'm also insignificant. And it's really interesting because everyone who's kind of has a settled mind. I'm not sure people get to the second one, but
not what we need to. Oh why do you think we don't get there?
I've had this conversation with many people, this concept of legacy, and once you actually believe it, not just say it. I mean legacy. I mean presidents of legacies. Guess some entertainers have legacy, sports stars have legacies. Business people guys, no, they don't have legacies. And once you get to that point and comfortable in that point, this whole concept that what's my legacy? Which is a jerk off conversation, you can move past a lot of this stuff.
Yeah, we're sitting there, what's my legacy? Yeah? Yeah, it's a bad question. It's a bad question like that, that's why you're doing it. Yeah, I agree, Oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah, it's I do you know what I think it comes from. I think we never get to embrace our own insignificance because we're scared of where it leads to low self esteem. So there's that angle, but
definitely I don't have that, yes, exactly. But the deeper angle, which is what you're raising, is that I think as humans we're so addicted to immortality because at least from a spiritual point of view, our consciousness and energy is immortal, and there's such an addiction to immortality and longevity that we have that for us to live after we die. We think the art here's my fear possible because people because I mean, I am a crazy health nut. I
mean I do some crazy stuff. Yeah, and I'm into it too, so I'm.
Really really But for me, it's not about living forever. It's about being healthy while I live same as long as I am. Because I see people that are older that are prisoners in their bodies as when they get to their sixties, seventies, eighties, I'm not doing that. The best thing that could happen is it's over, would be
incredible and union your sleep like it's over. But until that point in time, I'm playing golf, I'm going on hikes, I'm surfing, I'm doing my thing, this whole thing about this whole world of and I hack.
I hack myself to do that. But it's not to live to ever. And so that's the objective. Yes, yeah, no, I get that, and I'm totally aligned with that. I feel the same way, like I don't think it's what's the craziest thing you do for your health? I mean, I've been recent because I'm still young. There's certain things that people don't recommend yet. And so like I've been talking to people about like stem cell treatments and things like that and if you've done any stem cell therapy
or anything like that. Okay, so I haven't done any of it either, but everyone's was like, yeah, you're too young to start these things right now. But I'd say the craziest thing I do right now is same as you like the fast thing, the cold plunging, the infrared so on, is the deep rest and sleep. The meditation has been a part of my life for seventeen ages. You got to push steel, yeah, yes, you got. You gotta do weights. I had to stop that last year for I had I had surgery, so I had to stop.
But yes, I usually do have to do that. You have to do stuff for your kind of coeal two, your oxygen, your ability. How old you know, thirty five?
Yeah, so you're right at the right if you do now, this is the time. Yeah, you got to reduce as much as you can your inflammation. You gotta have gut health. Yes, this is exactly, and then you have to figure out how to balance your glucose. If you can do those things, yep, you have thirty five percent chance of getting to the objective of one night you just.
Don't wake up. Yeah right, Are you plum based as well? Or you try? Here's what it is because I'm sixty two. Okay, Wow, So I was electing free vegan, following doctor Gundrys who got me when I had my thigraid problem. Really healthy.
The problem is now because I do push a lot of steel, I do do heavy cardio, I do do a lot of that stuff. I have to have some protein in my dial. So I have moved up to probably very healthy you know, grass fed, grass finish, no corn in it. All the stuff that caused inflammation. I have moved up into probably three or four days of meat and then the rest. Electing free vegan.
Yeah, what's the craziest therapy you've done? You mentioned earlier there was some different strang I do.
I you know, I take helmets from Thailand and from the UK every morning. I do light therapy every morning after the cold plunge. I mean if I showed you the list now, you'd be like, you've you've lost the plot.
Sorry, No, I love it. Here's what happens though.
As I go down all these paths, I always call my brother Zeke and I only have the following question, and then he has to do the work and I do work too. I said, okay, can it kill me? Can it injure me or hurt me? If the answer comes back, now I do it. So I started on They're you know, they're live microbes. Their microscopy can't see him. I drink them every morning. Now I've gotten too a
place where I do that. I worked with this guy from from Duke as I read an article on him, and people are looking like, what are you doing?
Like?
And I say the great line to him and say watch their facial expression. I said, well, they don't colonize in your system, and you know you can see them like. And so this goes to like, all right, I'm not lett. I'm just going to try these things as long as it can't hurt me.
The list is vast. Yeah, it's great. No, it's great. I think it's I mean, this is where, this is where the world's heading. And I think everyone's looking for solutions and looking for ways. So I love hearing about it from you, and it's and it's great and it shows right, I feel like you you seem really vibrant, energetic, and and I think that's the key, right, it's vitality. I think, well, but the back is not turned into a mouse that's hunched over. Yeah yeah, yeah absolutely. Have
you ever seen those absolutely that that that that scares me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will do anything that too, because then it's not You're going to be a prisoner in your body. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's not that's not where you want to be in life. Yeah, talking about athletic bodies. You you talked about what you did with the w W E there. I remember when you first got involved with the UFC, there was a lot of like doubt as to how big it could get. I believe there was a bit
of skepticism. How do you how do you when you're making a decision that's big money, big risk and danger going back to that point. But then everyone else is like, it's a lot of risk. This is like I don't know if it's going to work out. But then you're like, no, I know where this is going to go. How do you?
How have you found that the first thing that gets I mean, I mean the first thing that I do. I mean, I'm assuming you do it. Anybody successful do it?
I read a lot, and I asked a lot.
Of questions to Once I read an article, if I understand it, don't understand it, I want I call the person or I call the person in the article. And that happened early on how we started the firm. You know, we were in the representation business, and then I said, we have all this business, I want to buy something that we owned. I thought sports was going someplace that with increased distribution, that was going to be more valuable. And so it was like, there's not many sports you
can own. I was already in business with the UFC. We did all the work about where we could take the economics internationally sponsorship. It was an easy bet and it worked out well.
It worked well.
The world changed on me at the time. For the like Fox sold the Disney so those two buyers out. Donald Trump wouldn't let AT and T buy Time Warner, so those two buyers are out, and the rest of it they didn't. Nobody else wanted it at the time because they had already had too much. So so it was nerve wracking for a while. But then the world changed.
Yeah, it's fascinating to me because I think that everyone in their micro universe or any universe is always having to make tough decisions that a lot of people around them don't understand. Whether someone listening to this right now is trying to start a new health regime, whether someone's not a.
Pill, and anything we do as we now know, there's not like because I don't know about you. People come in, so what's the one thing?
One thing? There is no one. I do seventeen things like and it's grown from ten. Yep, there's like being asked the one thing. It doesn't work? Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And that's why that's why the questions I'm asking you. I'm fascinated by the thought process. Well, because you're just in our lives.
We're just gathering information, gathering thought process, gathering, gathering perspectives, and then we go hunting for things that we want to do and where we think the world's going. And then once you get to that point like okay, you talk to a lot of people, you have to for me, talk to investors, et cetera, and then you're then you're launched, and then there's I think I might get this story wrong.
Disney when they bought Cap Cities, which had ESPN, they valued ESPN did zero at the time, and when it came out, it was the most valuable asset. Again success, right, who knows? You know, you can do all the work you can do and then all of a sudden.
Get into the pool. The water is warm, dude, you gotta start swimming. Yeah, And that's what I think. I think there is so much pressure around making the right decision as opposed to making your decision right right, like as in you. I think a lot of people spend a lot of time. Is this the right decision? Is this the right thing to investor? I'm like, well, make the decision.
And then we started how many people can handle change and fear the I mean you just have to be comfortable and the uncomfortable and.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, what have you see? And you've worked with talent? I know you still do in in some in the ways, still work with a lot of time. I've alread you said what most of but you're working with the business as well as much as you Yeah, exactly, So when you're working with talent, what have you seen has been the Because I think it was interesting. I was saying when I was young, everyon wanted to be an investment banker. Now we know in America most peop
want to be influencers, creators, something to YouTube. What what have you seen have been the best choices that talent have made long term for their successful careers or where are some of the mistakes people.
I think most talent now realizes they're the ass and it's kind of moving towards them and and a lot of them are starting to try and figure out, like, Okay, what does that mean?
Can I own other businesses? Can I get equity?
It be Ryan re Duyne, Johnson, Mark Wallbert, these people, right, And I think that's been at that level. We're going to go through a whole iteration right now with AI that is gonna I think, I don't know what it's going to do, but it's going to transfer one more time.
Our business.
I think in a good way in that I think people are gonna have more free time than ever. They're gonna want movies, they're gonna want to entertainment, They're gonna need more. I think that we're gonna go down to
a permanent four day work week. Governments are going to need it for full employment, and that means the weekend is starting on Thursday night, and that means that's three days where people need personal interaction, and so the value proposition, especially as distribution changes, you're gonna go to six Wi Fi.
You're now seeing more distribution, rumble.
Picking up shows, Roque. I mean, it's just expanding and expanding. Our job is to create a place where our talent can create, really for the first time even more exponentially, become their own brands and own businesses and do things that they not just the movie, not just to tell other things and will be successful for them and they'll be successful as long as we can create this kind of part perfect architecture. And we're not perfect at it yet,
but we're getting better at it. And those are the clients that we want to be in business across podcast, all the different things, and that's the hardest thing that we're trying to build now in this transition.
But that's where I think the world is going interesting. Four day work weeks. I think that's that I think. I think, even if it's unofficial, I don't know governments, I think because of AI Oh, and I'm saying probably in two three, four years for full employment and they're going to need it for social non unrest. You're going to have and you know you have COVID and that's almost a four day work Greek now because people don't go into the office on Fridays.
That means Thursday night, what are you doing? Yeah, well, I'm in the entertainment. That's the that's the objective, and so that's what we've.
Been building like events Madrid Open Barrett Jackson Art Show, et cetera. And that's where I think the world's got sporting events, et cetera. So I think entertainments can be more valuable than it's ever become. I don't think it's as we'll be as disrupted by AI. There'll be some
disruption in it. Yeah, it's it's incredible to think about that because, yeah, I think people are only looking for more alternatives and options, especially for that human connection point we were talking about, how have you found it as a leader to have that where you've gone from everyone being in an office in an agency to then people working from home? Like, how have you navigated that to continue that? Like listen, we have you know, we've we had done this a long time ago. We just restarted.
We did we did a book club, not the way we used to do with with Rick Rubin on his new book We do. We've had a lecture on anti Semitism. We're trying to get people in groups talking about big issues to kind of keep the company together from you know, we're in I don't know, thirty seven countries, so that people get to there's a community and they were going to start a big retreat again, which we hadn't done in.
A lot of years because of COVID. So that's the way we foresee doing that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, and I think that that's that just keeps hopefully, Yeah, and we just have to keep on working on how we
keep that connection ongoing in the company. Yeah, you know, because you do want the architecture, right, you do want the licensing group talking to the motion picture group, talking to the online on location group to create an experience, and you want all those pieces and the outside world and the clients is asking for it too, So that's
where we have to Yeah. I worked with so many organizations before and during Manu the pandemic, and then even after, and the transitions I've seen are incredible because whether a company was growing rapidly so I was working with Zoom, they were having the best success as a company financially, but it was like they had to scale like what was a small organization really quickly, and so like the
burnout that comes with that is really really hard. And then you had other organizations obviously like travel entertainment, live entertainment down struggling with that and hurdling morale. And so it's really interesting to see how they both bounce back because it was hard either way, and it's really fat. You always think they're successful. They don't. It's hot. Success was hard for them though. Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. It's it's so complicated and.
It's really complicated. Success is hard and failure is hard running a business. I don't any one of them.
Yeah, brutal. Yeah, what have been some of you? What would you say the last few years has been one of like your biggest misses or your biggest failures that you look back and go that taught me a lot.
Well, I'll say the following because it was a success. And it was only success because I thought we had like shut everything down, and Dana White at the OC said to me, uh uh, we're not shutting down. I got scared, and he like slamming across the face, and we're going. And then he said, give me an island. And you know, I was like, you know, my brother's a doctor's telling me where the world's come. I'm like and he was like, we're and he was just driving
that train. And so we got them an island and he did everything else and you know, kind of just remind me like, yeah, it's it's it's nerve wracking, but don't be scared.
Yeah, and he was like amazing, Yeah.
And I was like on the other side of that fence and I said, you know, and that's why I have great part He's an incredible partner. But I I for the first time, got really scared, and he just said, no, we just have to go, and we're going to take all the heat for it. And it was a lot of heat against him, and but we did it. If we didn't have that, the whole company would have been tanked because we needed the ESPN deal to continue to go.
We needed to put on fights, and his his courage, like dragging me along was incredible.
The industry today, I feel like cancel culture heat coach like it's got hotder, basically because there's more people too canceled. There's more things that people are sensitive or care about or believe in, and values like how do how do you as a talent agent think about artists going through that? Because I'm sure you've seen over the years, just so, I coached a lot of people in the music business,
actors like sports people. I coach so many people in the industry jump in the water because most people want to respond.
The news cycle is so fast unless you've committed murder and something whatever, let it go. The thought process is I got to jump and respond. Then it's just the story just continues the news cycle. I used to say, it's like one day, it's less.
Than a half a day now. And if you just get out of this emotional mindset that you have to respond and they have to know and really nobody's going to like it's over, don't respond. And that's kind of I think the hardest thing for any artist. How have you? How have you worked with because I'm guessing you you almost buy job that have to become a coach sometimes to the people, this is my this is my this is my line.
Note like why are you responding? Don't like they want you to respond because then they keep on getting the click. I think, God, I'm not on a social.
Media Yeah, I won't do it. I won't. I mean, I get it. You know. Sometimes my kids send it to me. My wife sends it to me. I don't look at it. What's something that you're trying to immerse into your children? Leg? I mean you were just your son was just calling you, just talking. You're like, what's something that you feel you really want them to know and learn at the stages they are in their life. I just I think they get it.
It was so funny. My my youngest son is now training. He goes submchion and he's working up at Apple right now at Apple Maps, and he's decided comes out of as he's going into a junior. He's he's training for a triathlon a junior. What I loved about him is he did the work and what I mean by did the work, and it was like shocking hearing. I was
just such a proud father. He talked about how you run better and how the people and ken you run better because they're on their toes and he'd done out of all this research about and he started doing it. First three weeks was brutal on his legs, but he's gotten faster on the bike. I have to do it in a box, Dad, here's what And I ride and do a POxy training and all this stuff.
And I said, you're right, it does.
And he has not stopped training. No, he's twenty one years old. You know, I remember how I was at twenty one years old. I wouldn't have been doing that. But his work about how to get better. He swam double the length this time. He's got a month left. And just the amount of work he's put into it, the thought process behind it, the research he did. I'm like, I mean, you couldn't be prouder, and all of them. I just try and teach him one thing. You got to work hard and you got to show up the
results you're not going to control. If you do those things, then there's many other things that we all can on the list, but those are kind of it. You work really hard, you show up outcomes you can't control.
That's what you want. Good advice. I love that. It's all right. It's been such a joy talking to you day. You you've been You've been such a like. It's been such a treat, just like I feel like we've been playing tennis or pickleball. Uh, that's my wife. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say I.
Need a pair of those. I will just send one of them. You'll send me the shoe size and everything. One of those two you have to wear it on the podcast, so she gets a little gets a little bit of kind of love from you.
Those are awesome. Yeah, and multi balance too, so that's great. There are multiple colors. Okay, I'm gonna essentially have these in in shoes too. You Yeah, I want it, I want it all. They look great, they look great. It looks it looks great on you too. Thank you for doing this. I will. But we end every show with the final five. These have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum, So it's super I better sit up for this. Yes, all, these are your final five.
The first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? No when you're on the field. The second question is what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? I don't know if it was advice, but why would you do that? Interesting question? What's something that you're trying to unlearn being angry? That sounds hard? It's hard? How hard is it? Let's let's talk about that for a second. I'll tell you what it is.
It's you know, I know when it pops up like all of a sudden, when somebody used to call me stupid in school, it was game on and that thesis where somebody treats me.
As if I'm not smart or they trying to pull something on me, I just I just go to a very dark, sick place.
And I've worked very hard now not to go there, to handle it differently, not that I'm not going to be like, what do you think I'm stupid? Like by doing that, you're you're acting as if I don't know what's going on here and so, and they're pulling one over me. And for whatever reason, the minute I feel like somebody's trying.
To take advantage of you. Yeah, I get that. And so that is a lot of work. That is a constant work.
And when I feel it coming on, Okay, that's your shadow, whatever the phrase is, that your you know, that's the work I have to do. And I don't always do it, especially those childhood ones and so, but when somebody in business does that to me recently, I kind of like I went to the bad place.
I couldn't control it, and that that that's what I'm trying to work on. Yeah, what's been helping you work on that? I just kind of like recognizing it. Once I recognize it, yeah, I can breathe through it and I can get to the other side of it. But in the moment sometimes, Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I feel like I feel like for me as well. I feel like your partners and your family often see the rest of you. Oh god. I always look at that and was like, how what does my wife see? And
problem is you do things that are so not smart? Yeah, and it's you know, it's it's just not good. Yeah, but then you regret it afterwards. I'm not sure I regret it, but it's just like, really, you had to do that.
You're sixty two, you had to do that. Yeah, yeah, say that you had to like make calls and try and kill you.
No, I'm not doing that. Yeah, all right, two more questions. The fourth question is what's something that you used to value that you don't no longer value. Well, I thought it was about stack.
Now maybe somebody's gonna say he's got the stack now, yeah, but I never had I didn't have the stack at the beginning, and I didn't.
I mean, I don't. That was never the end game. What is the end game now?
I am really happily married. I love my kids, They're in great shape. I'm comfortable in who I am. I'm I'm happy that I have to constantly work at it now, and I'm actually in a good place to work it.
I understand the work I have to do, which makes it even better. All right. Fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest longer than one sentence. I know because because you keep giving good answers, you keep giving good answers. I can't help it. You gave a really interesting answer. I was like, if I don't dive into this, my just gonna get mad at me. They're gonna be like, Jay, why did you you know? I listened to my This is what that voice they tell me,
the Jay he just told you like something amazing. Why didn't uh? Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Could be anything about any any type of law.
Don't be hipocritical. If your whole thing is stay out of my life, Okay, stay out of my life. One guns stay out of my life on COVID. Just stay consistent. And that's the hardest thing because there's the shade of gray, right. I just want consistency without like the issue of money. The affirmative action issue is you know, oh it's sports and legacy people or family, you know, kind of heritage
that got into the school. Well that's about money. Like oh yeah, the sports make them money and the people that went there and their kids that they.
Give a lot of money. Like okay, we all get it.
Like, just stay consistent with when we decide to pass a law like that, it is then across the board and the money doesn't get into and all tho stuff.
That's the thing. I just look at these things. I just look at these things.
I'm like the hypocrisy of oh and I'm I'm a hypocryphal, all of us.
I am a h apocryphal. I understand it.
I wish that we could figure out a law of that consistency whatever we decide, so that it's like, okay, if if if really what you're saying here, and we take it out across all these other issues, here's what it would mean, and so that everybody gets I don't know what that law would be no.
The essence of the answer is great. I love the idea of being consistent and removing hypocrisy and the challenges. We need money, yeah, and we all have it like we all like we'll fight to death for this thing. And then but actually, please.
Don't say all my apocryphal things that I have done there, right, so we all have thank you, all right, thank you so much.
I love thank you. I'm glad and I love so I'm gonna send you these. I better get a care said, We're gonna send you Okay, thank you. You love this episode. You'll love my interview with doctor Gable Matte on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past. Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it. It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.