Alexis Ren & Allie Michelle: 3 Ways to Stop Putting a Guard up in Love & Why You Need to Change Your Mindset On What Success Means in Dating

There's a lot of talk about mindfulness these days, which is fantastic. I mean, we all want to be more present and self aware, more patient, less judgmental. We discuss all these themes on the podcast, but it's hard to actually be mindful in your day to day life. That's where Calm comes in. I've been working with Calm for a few years now with the goal of making mindfulness

If there's like a girl you know listening who's like, ah, you know, I would love to feel more feminine. I would love to, you know, have more of that energy inside of me first is recognizing and giving so much appreciation to that masculine that got you here, because it was there was probably a reason you leaned into the masculine. We our bodies are intelligent, our hearts are intelligent, and we lean into what we need to in order to survive.

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Podcast Jay Sheety Jay Shetty see Zy holy st Hey everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you come to become happier healthier and more healed. I'm so grateful to have conversations with friends, thought leaders, experts, athletes, musicians, people from all walks of life and backgrounds who come here to share their stories, share their experiences, and share their insights so that all of us can grow together. Today I get to invite one of my friends and someone

The last couple of years.

And today's conversation is going to be one that I hope you listen to with your friends, with your family, with your sisters, with your cousins, with your brothers. I want this to be an episode that you consume with someone else so that you can discuss it just like we will. You can dissect it just like we will, and you can share in the experience with someone else. Today, I'd like to introduce my two guests. One of them is someone we've had on the show before. She absolutely

Oh my god, I could just listen to your talk all day.

My goodness, we were remembering when you were here. A couple of years ago.

We had a sacred care turn ceremony at the home and both of you joined, which is so beautiful, and I'm so excited to have you back on the show. Alexis Ali. I'm so excited to have you on the show for the first time, and I want to start by just getting to understand how you too became friends and how you met. I think it's always beautiful for our audience to hear how two powerhouse humans have come

I love that title.

I love the movie so Easy A coming out this summer as well, and you're launching that together. But I'd love to hear the origin story of how this relationship became to be, so I'll leave it to you to figure out how do you tell that story.

It was a super synchronistic one. We met when we were what twelve, thirteen, eleven eleven. She remembers everything. I just had jokes here and there. We became very very close, very quickly. I think one of the reasons that we always stayed friends was we never held each other to a certain type of relationship. We were very fluid with our friendship. But it didn't really cement until my mom

Yeah, I mean, I think Warriors is really a love letter to her mom, because she was always into the holistic health stuff of you know, acupuncture and meditation, and so she really introduced me to all of that. So it just feels like she almost brought us together for Warriors. But to your point, I think the beautiful thing is we've never held each other hostage to a specific version or you know, judge each other for our choices or

We really taught each other how to communicate in the hardest ways possibility.

You know, well, that's actually when I was thinking about when I was preparing for this interview. That was actually what was on my heart that I wanted to understand how you do that and even hearing you both describe it as we've allowed this relationship to be fluid, and it's taken on many forms. I think when you're young, especially, we have this idea of this is my best friend, and this is my next best friend, and.

This person's right.

We live in this kind of very binary world when we're kids, and so we do put people in boxes and we do label people. And then sometimes those labels last as we get older, and sometimes they fade away, and sometimes we still act like kids even when we're older with how we see our relationships. How did you both develop that ability to allow each other to be who you were separately, Like you just said, Alexis, you were like I went down the Hollywood route, you know, Ali,

I mean we butt heads, of course because we're opposites, but our north stars are the same. And I think that's what sees us through is there's something so much bigger than us. And you know, especially because we made it through the loss of her mom together, it didn't really matter if we were fighting because I'm going to talk.

To you next week.

We're family and so, you know, I think when you have such a clear devotion to someone, it doesn't really matter what shape it takes.

It reminds me of that one poem where you talk about the marriage and how the guy was like, I've been married for x amount of years and someone was like, I'll let you. I'm butchering it, but gone.

So I watched this interview of these couples who had been together for sixty plus years, and there was one that had been together for sixty seven and the interviewer looks at the husband and says, how have you been with the same woman for so long? And he says, she hasn't been the same woman at all.

Yeah, there's so much evolution and so much growth, But I guess that's what it is, right. I feel like as humans, we have a resistance to other people growing, just as we have a limitation on who we can be, and we almost extend that limitation to others as well. When you saw each other grow in different ways, maybe incongruent ways, random ways, what allowed you to have difficult

Sense of compared to sixty seven.

I was like, oh, yeah, like, we've been together for eleven years, and I agree with that statement completely, Like Radi has transformed in so many ways in the last eleven years since I met her, I fully agree with that, but that evolution requires two people to sign up to that and subscribe to that. So with those moments where you saw each other going through these big or small changes and how did you adapt with each.

Other, we would definitely trigger each other. But then we had enough wisdom where we knew when there was a trigger, there was a path we had to take in order to get through that ego and then into the growth part. So and we also we truly do love watching each other grow. It gives us a lot of joy. And we've also never held each other back. If I disagree with her, for instance, I will state that truth immediately. I'll be like, I disagree with you, but I absolutely

Yeah, I was put on Riddlin and adderall and just different add medications super young, around like ten or eleven, and it kind of snuffed out my creativity. And her mom was one of the people that helped turn.

My light on inside.

And so there is just this greater devotion to her that I feel. And I think our culture, Western culture is particularly noncommittal. There's almost this one foot in, one foot out. We have so many options. I don't know which one to take, but there's actually a freedom that happens when you just fully plant both feet on the ground and say, like, this is what I'm committed to.

It's contradicting, it's so contradicting.

But I think also because it's not a romantic relationship, but there's so much room to breathe, you know, there there are way less expectations, and because we're fully committed to each other, we just figure it out. Like now, we communicate a lot better by writing each other letters because if we step on a tender spe but and it gets.

Really reactive emotion. Feel now conclusion now, and she's like five to ten business days please, And so we really had like I need to withtrash. It's like I need to explode. I'm like, how about a letter?

So it's that it's finding whatever it can be a bridge between you.

What was the reason that you went on the medications and then what talked to me about the journey of finding your way with that? Because it sounds like obviously right now creativity is by the way, if anyone has not seen I'm speaking to the audience right now, if any of you have not seen, Ali and Alexis performed spoken word together insane.

That was amazing.

But I remember seeing that common to her immediately. I remember it coming out. I think I even shared it.

It came up.

I think it was on my TikTok feed or maybe it was on Instagram. But that was spectacular. It was so good, Like how I don't know how long it took you to write it, and you're both going to say like two hours or something, but it was believe it was so good, like it was so powerful, like every line. So obviously you've tapped into that now and that seems to be the greatest part of your expression. But to hear that actually, based on the medications you

I just think there's so many different types of intelligence, and I have a natural inclination towards creative and emotional intelligence. But my sister, for example, had like a semi photographic memory and just got incredible grades and was very smart in a specific way. And so when you're in school and the system is kind of a one size fits all for the most part, it's very difficult as a kid to have high self esteem if that's not a value that's within the school.

And so her mom, you know, was.

Such a huge help in that of no, this is really valuable, Like, no, you are intuitive, No, it's okay, Like you can express your creativity.

She had to deal with me and being like I can't do math, and she's like, it's okay, your value somewhere else. Everyone has.

No really, everyone has their deck of cards to play. Some people are like goodwill hunting, you know, and some people are like art, and some people can grow the perfect flower. And it's all should weigh equally on a scale. In my opinion, So I think it was that journey of just learning to believe in myself in that way and place value on my gifts that maybe society didn't.

Oh that's so beautiful.

I want to come back to that because I love that theme and I love the examples you just shared that. I was watching an interview, or at least a clip of an interview where Melinda Gates, who just came on the show. She was interviewing Oprah has been on the show, and Gail King and so Milinda's interviewing them, and it's all about female friendships and relationships. And Oprah said something

For me personally, it always makes me like my lovely. My love language is like helping people become better. I think that's acts of service in a form. We call it ratification improvement. I love. I love helping people improve. I always have this like vision for them, and I get really excited when I can help, you know, make that vision come to life. So and and for me, I always, you know, coming from the homeschooling background, I

I was had a University of Racist and she was a Lexus run.

Let's just but we we we validated each other where our wounds were most apparent. And that's why there is no envy, because I almost look at her as like the same way I would look at myself, like a project that I that I helped create, that I helped,

But you're also like I should say, Alexis is like a genie, and she makes her friend streams her dreams. Like she went to a corporate company to the head, marched on his office and said, you're going to hire my friend, and how do you?

Was there?

Actually there was no position, like this didn't exist, and she convinced this owner of a really successful company to just create a position for her friend because she was in an unhealthy job setting. And so Alexis just does this for everyone. Like our other friend almost lost her script and she was calling eight different agents. She's just really supportive. And I think that's the beauty is she's the archetype of the ruler, which means she serves her people,

And the mudicians, so tell them, tell them a little bit about that.

Yeah, we've done.

This actually with the community.

There's there's a book by Carol Pearson and I think it's called the Twelve Archetypes or something that but if you look.

At them, thank you.

But it goes to the twelve major archetypes within our subconscious and a lot of it is based on Carl Jung's psychology, and I personally love storytelling in fairy tales as a way to translate wisdom. And so there's this book called erth c as well, where this young sorcerer releases a demon shadow into the world, and the way that he stops it is he gives it his own name. And so by naming the shadow, it ceases to have power.

It is, I'm a three.

And he's like, this is the aspect of my subconscious that I'm wielding right now with this different archetype, And so it creates more compassionate understanding, and to me, it also helps me name my shadow a lot clearer.

So yeah, and that's why I love the archetypes, because it's you're never one. It's just what you're building with right now. So you could go back and look, Okay, the orphan archetype needs more work, or you were saying, America, actually the lard we have the most connection to the orphan archetype because we all kind of come here for this dream or come here from other places, and it's kind of the like do I belong here? Where do I belong? So I think different countries to also build

I love that because so.

Look at King Arthur and Merlin. That's a great example. They're equally important to each other. But the downfall of that would be like a tyrant king I think Geoffrey from Game of Thrones or something, and then ja'far from Aladdin.

It's the evil sorcerer and then the wicked ruler.

And so we hold each other accountable in that way if we're sitting at two opposite ends of this power spectrum, and we keep each other from slipping into like evil sorcer and tyyrant.

Whenever we're having a disagreement, I'm like, am I being a tired Okay, we're just gonna write a letter like please don't unname me.

But I just love looking at people like characters and books because it creates so much more compassion, because if you had a perfect character, it would be really boring to read about. You know. It's all those idiosyncrasies that make them so unique.

So I think that helps too, And that's why I think that's truly like her perception of that is why I've loved myself so much, because all of these little quirks I've had, She's like, keep going, keep doing it. Like she'll give me the little check mark in a conversation with people and I'll just go off. And I

Yeah.

And it's really cool too because her fantasy book, she put a character in for me, and that was really cool as well, because reading it, I was like, One, I'm immortalized, which is crazy. Two I'm awesome, Oh my god, is this how you perceive me? Yes. Now, whenever someone says, oh, Run's my favorite character in Ali's book, I'm like.

What I love about? What it's bringing out for me. Going back to the question of envy, is that what I found is that when you understand your place and your pace of growth, which is the archetype, and when you understand someone else's place and their pace of growth, it allows you to be non envious because it allows you to see that you're moving at your own pace and you have a place forever, and that that person

Yeah, Carol Pearson has a website and then if you get the book too, it's in the book.

It's a large books.

It's a huge book for a textbook, but I like it because it's it's fluid. You know, it's not as awakening the heroes awakening all right.

If anyone's listening. And I love that.

And you've been teaching that in Warriors as well. That's been something that you've been sharing with your community.

Literally anything, we'll just like pick up a book or we'll have a conversation. I mean, I remember I was literally last week when to her crying about not going to say on this podcast. But I was like, and then she's slowly like, I'm going to write the Warrior Workshop and what was it? Navigating the unknown?

There's been so many times when we've just created workshops around what we're personally experienced because it's resonance, and so yeah, we'll make workshops around anything that feels very alive in the moment, because I find the girls are often going through similar things in their own way.

I wanted to talk about that, Actually, what would you say, having built this community, You've had thousands of women who've been a part of this community.

It's growing.

If you had to pick and I know this is a hard exercise, but I want to do it for the basis of our conversation today. If you had to pick the top three challenges, and we'll just start with the top one challenge that you hear, would you feel is that the root of so many women's challenges in your community, and of course broader than that too.

What is that? One?

Two, three? What are those three things? In no particular order, but what would you say those themes are that are holding women back, that they're constantly perplexed by, that they are feeling limited restricted by.

What would they be?

The first one that came to my mind is really knowing and understanding your own femininity, because I think this is especially in America, it's very like masculine dominated to build your empire, blah blah blah, and I think we get as females, get really lost in that because the female, you know, energy is to attract and the male energy is to like make happen, and both are needed, but so many girls they kind of spin out, even just from a biological level, you know, there's we're a different

Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that together.

I think that's such a huge one and I'm fascinated by it. How does someone start to embrace or encourage their feminine energy in a world that's a masculine dominant or at least would you describe it as the masculine storyline has been Yeah.

It's more the storyline. I think it's just you have to break down the beliefs. So you have to understand what beliefs your It's like the car or what beliefs, what wheels the let's say the beliefs are the wheels, like what is driving you down that way? And then once you understand, okay, that's those are the beliefs that have been manifesting this creation, this life. What are the

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I think beauty is a huge one, actually, because beauty has provided security for women for thousands of years, primarily just you know, if you become this attractive thing, then you'll find a mate that can protect you. And so people call it, you know, a surface level or whatever it might be. But there is like this primal hardware,

Wow, that's so powerful.

I mean, that's I feel like all of us can relate to that in so many ways, and I feel like it's so difficult. It goes back to what Alexis was saying earlier, that you've given her the permission to

I feel like all these practices sound like, oh, roll my eyes, Okay, fine, I'll write a little five minute journal gratitude whatever. Like you think they're not important, but when you actually apply them, it's like, whoa a doctor McCall,

I love Yeah, while you were talking about that, I can think of so many scenarios where I can see that as being practical and useful.

Yeah, but it has to you have to do it the moment.

We don't want to do it because you're.

Like, I'm just triggering. I want to sit in the hurt because it's.

Valid Yeah, yeah, I know. I love that.

I think whatever I get validated for the most in life becomes my porcelain suit.

And so for a while, oh so good. I was the deep one, and so I couldn't be funny.

I was like, let me speak and bumper sticker and be as spiritual as possible because that's how I belong.

And so it's about making the ugly face for me.

And I had this poetry mentor and I first started doing spoken word and I was trying to sound very melodic and he said, I want you to scream, and I screamed the poem and he starts smacking me with a pillow and he's like, now jump up and down and wave your arms.

I'm like, this feels so bad. I don't feel cool at all.

And that was the point, was to just kind of slip out of my cool so I could tap into what was really honest.

Yeah, no, that's such a I mean, I can relate to that. So that to so many guests where I just felt like, I just feel like everyone's just waiting for me to say something. And at one point I really carried it as a weight where I realized I stopped listening to people because I was just thinking in my head what to say. And then I realized that not only was I never going to say something profound if I didn't listen, but that maybe sometimes the most profound thing to do was to listen.

Like that was it, like it didn't even need a word.

And I remember a famous statement by Saint Francis where he said that you should preach wherever you go and if necessary, open your mouth.

And I love that.

It's like that idea of just like you know, we always feel like, yes, saying the thing is is the thing, and it's like, well, no, just being present and just listening and just being there and like you just said, like holding yourself internally during a trigger.

It's not like you had to say something or repeat something.

You get a high off of the wisdom, and then you don't actually integrate it. At least for me for a while, whenever I would hear something profound out of my own mouth or I would I would be like cos and write it down, and then it just kind of became a game as opposed to real integration. I can so relate to that, and I resonate so deeply with what you're saying about just trying to make something profound in life changing because me and Ali personally are exhausted.

In a way, I've seen that with all my friends who are you know, successful comedians. I'm sure we have people in common, like they just feel the pressure that if they're not funny at dinner, and they're not funny at breakfast, and they're not funny at lunch, it's like people are going to think, oh, you're not that funny, You're not that interesting, and they're like, well, no, there's

And they're not.

They're not thinking about that, and and but we are. And I think that's such an important that's such an important tool and principle. I remember when Russ came on the podcast. He talks about how when all of his squad and his crew would come into the studio, he would try and act cool, and he'd make the worst music.

Acting as well like me and my friends, we like host little acting classes, just the three of us. But like one of these acting techniques that we do is just like follow your little child self, Like if you want to lay down, if you want to look at yourself the mirror, if you want to jump up down. It's like knowing what those intuitive pulses are is what

Fun, yeah, what What's something else would you say that the community struggles with? So we started with that big one is what else is there? What else comes up for people?

I mean just basic adult things like how to regulate your own nervous system and do taxes. You know, I don't know why those are the two most valuable things as an adult in modern society.

No, yeah, you need to know, but I.

Feel like you're not really prepared for life and traditional schooling, and so that's a huge passion. It's just you know, bringing on financial educators, bringing on breathwork teachers, meditation teachers, and really just handing tools to these women. It's the teacher man a fish story, you know.

Yeah, I think that's the that's the difference. It's like, we're not coming on here being a therapist. We're just coming on here being big sisters, being like, here are the right questions so you can get to your answers, but that you have to learn how to get there yourself, because that's what being a leader is. And that's what's so cool because then on the reverse end of that, watching girls go from seventeen to twenty two years old and seeing that growth, it is the most fulfilling thing ever.

And it's amazing you're working with women as young as seventeen, and yeah, that's incredible. I love that people are starting that early and doing the work and finding that mentorship and advice because I feel like we're all trying to come to as early as we possibly can.

Then I know, it's like that's a competition itself. That's something that I've noticed too, is a lot of people who are older than me, not by much, but they're like, oh, I wish I had that wisdom when I was your age, And I was like, it's not a competition, it's really not, because this information, this knowledge, this wisdom sometimes weighed me down as to what you were saying, because then it put me in this box that I need to always fill and make sure people see and value me in

You've reminded me of something I wanted to read it.

I just brought it up here because we're all on the same page about this idea of just we've got to be able to look at our ugly side, our dark side, our shadows. So we've got to be able to look at the subconscious and rewire our beliefs. We've got to be able to then take action on it outside and like you just beautifully said, like we do just end up looking for bigger boxes or more boxes

Oh you heard it? Sick.

Now it's that I'm showing you too many pictures of me with my friends. Okay, I can stop doing that too. Now I'm actually a calculated minute rather than a smart business woman. Okay, I'll disappear from public view for years. Now I'm being cast as a villain too. Okay, here's an album called Reputation, and there are lots of snakes everywhere.

Wow.

Anyway, there's watching that video of the way she delivers that speech is so powerful, Like I.

Didn't do it justice at all.

It's really powerful, but I feel like it's that constant shape shifting that we all go through. It's like you found your porcelain doll version and then you've realized it wasn't you, so you decided to expand because you got criticized for perfecting that thing. And it's almost like we all go through that cycle where you practice something and everyone likes you, or you start something and everyone laughs

Part of it.

Yeah, it reminds me of what we were talking about with making me a hero or a villain, and.

The opening my fantasy book, the first line is make me neither a hero nor a villain, both live within all of us. Make me into whatever you need, but don't take away my humanity by making a hero out of me.

So good, I love that, and that's so true.

It's true because like once you get it's just in our nature. When a person gets at a certain point, it's uncomfortable for everyone, and then it's like all right, time to pull them down from that level, pull the level ground.

Also, no living thing does well under a microscope. I mean, I can't imagine if we all were judging each other's actions twenty four hours a day. And I think that's why the conversation about shape shifting and being fluid. Maybe your core essence is the same and your values remain the same, but whatever shape it takes, you know, life is a dance.

Yeah, And I think that is part of the service for me too, is that? And I know you posted about this, Alexis. I thought you post something about this, like I think it was a year or two back, and it was a really thoughtful caption around what I can't remember the exact language you use, but this idea of what pseudo spirituality looks like.

Yeah, yeah, I remember that we went off about.

Yeah, and just that idea of just like how I think part of it is. You know, I always grew up believing that spiritual people were poor and that materialistic people had things, and I was so wrong. I was like, you know, spiritual people are abundant, like you know, it's

This isn't about me.

This is about so many people being supported, and we often missed that in our world of I've just got to take care of myself and no one else.

And so are you? Are you pretty good with balancing the feminine and masculine in yourself?

I really want to talk about it with you too, So you're going to have to tell me whether I am, but you're going to have to teach us. And it's so funny because I've had three people in my life say something to me that when I first heard it, I was like, watch what you're saying, and then now, yeah, exactly, and now I'm like, no, that's me. So I've had three people say this to me over the last like eight years. Jay, you have the perfect balance of masculine

Yeah, And I should preface this with I'm not an expert or guru on this topic at all.

I just love and experience life experience.

I just also love reading books. But I would say the feminine is kind of built to navigate the unknown. Even in the way we bring life into the world. It's like we're bringing thing unknown into the known, and the masculine is really great at navigating the known.

It's like the mind and the heart. You know.

You can use your mind to analyze and decide what to do based on what's real and what's right in front of you here and now, but the mind can't future cast and figure things out. And yet the heart is what guides us blindly through these moments. And so that's kind of how I differentiate it. But it's obviously really complex subject with lots of layers.

And I like, for me, I look at it as like nature, you know. I think, like the God is the masculine, and Mother Earth is the nature, and like, look how chaotic and like unforgiving but beautiful and incredible our nature is. And so I think it's like the two their lovers, they're they're a part of all of us. And so it's it's more of an energetic conversation as opposed to and it's and it's a way of being

Yeah. I think when I was very extreme in my feminine it was very hard to actually use my will to create things where I would have an idea for a book, but I wouldn't write the book. And so integrating that I realized, oh, okay, the masculine is it's almost like a.

Chariot that you can write. It'll get you where you need to go.

Then you can get off.

Yeah, and then you can get off and you can rest, which I'm you know, we're working on in our modern culture. It's a little difficult to do nothing, but I try and weigh now what life is asking of me. Am I meant to bring my feminine energy into this moment? Am I meant to be patient and nurturing and navigate that unknown space? Or am I meant to use force and will? And you know it's like the door's not opening, let me kick it down.

I don't know. Sometimes it's also nice to look at the energies as archetypes, like inside out. Yeah, have you seen the second.

Go with you?

Guys have seen it, I'll see together. I like the second one better than the first set. But what helps is it just once again with back with the archetypes. It helps kind of personify these different energies in us. And then we just like after inside out too, some profound stuff, guys. I had such compassion for my anxiety. I was like, oh, my god, you've caught me so far. Thank you. You've literally exhausted my body, but thank you so much for getting me here and preparing me over preparation.

I was just.

But we get those energies mixed up. But they also they kind of service each other in a way, so that was really fun. It just it takes once again. I think our journey right now with our wisdom is taking off the weight of all of it and also not expecting it to come out with something profound every single time and just enjoying the moment for it. And I think when we personify those emotions, it gives us

Then when when did she tho?

When is she for the stars? Land on the cloud? Doory guys? But you know it's it's it's so helpful

But he was.

He was every time he calls me, he's like, guess what, and I'm like what, and he's like, so I found this ring and it was my dad's ring and it was a blue sapphire. And then I go over here and this psychic told me and he just like puts together all of these little clues and I stopped him, and I was like, it's so beautiful that you look at your life like this little treasure hunt to the divine and the fact that you look at it in that way is why it's unfolding in this beautiful fun

Have, I love it.

You know why that comes full circle because I totally just went to kuaiy So they shot one of the Jacksparao scenes on that beachom yeah exactly, yeah exactly, And so when I was there, that's all.

I was thinking about. Yeah, exactly.

You know, I love what you're talking about because I think what's really interesting about it is you're talking about the benefits of actually balancing masculine and feminine energy and how you both have seen value in both. And I think it's so strange because I think the conversation often

Yeah. I think the first step is giving a lot of compassion to like once you find out, because I think too we look at spiritual growth in any capacity of like, when we weren't balanced or aligned, we failed. It's just like, no, like the contrast is there to show us the way, like there wouldn't be light without dart.

One thing you've raised there that I love is this idea of how we at one point start to hate things.

That helped us survive. Yeah, and it's fascinating.

It's like that saved you, that helped you, it got you to the other side, and now that it's no longer serving you, we feel like we wasted time. We hate it, we were wrong, we messed up. Rather than going that served me then and now I'll find the next thing to serve me, and I'll always honor that. I'll always have a space for that in my life. And it's a tool, it's a skill, it's a habit, it's a mindset. I can go back, but I don't have to now hate it and neglect it and negate it from having value.

Yeah, or feel embarrassed.

Feel embarrassed. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a common emotion.

Yeah.

I love that first of all, because I don't know, I mean, I actually I don't want to spoil inside out, but there's a really beautiful scene at the end it is I won't spoil it, but it's like the visual representation of what you just said, and it's really beautiful to look out for it. Okay, this is just an inside out ad.

Apparently exactly sponsor us.

It really is one of those brilliant movies.

I try to look at things in storytelling and even archetypically I'm trying to do the opposite of my nature. Like, for example, let's say I really had an integrated ruler.

The only one.

That is just as powerful as the ruler said the magician would be the full because the fool can say anything to the king that he wants to not be beheaded, because that's his job to be funny and honest, and so he can poke it the king's ego in a way that no one else can. And so with the ruler, maybe you're more serious and stoic, but maybe you need to bring in some of the full archetype.

And so it's the same with masculine and feminine.

It's like, what is my impulse, my reactive step that I want to take, and can I actually try doing the opposite as an experiment and see what happens?

And do you bring that in through other people or through activities you do yourself well both.

Whatever the moment presents.

You know, if I'm if I'm doing a poem and I've done it the same way a hundred times and it's gotten a great reaction, I'm like, well, let's let's yell.

Let's yell and jump up and down and see.

Because I think, to your point, we need the freedom to try new coping mechanisms. We need the freedom to fail. That's super important, not just for artists but people in general, is to not be so hard on ourselves to be perfect all the time.

So I like being perfect time it's impossible. We're just.

Yeah, you just vo right, Yah.

Yeah.

We all love pretending. But it was one of the reasons why I did when I did my tour. You guys didn't come to my show last year, like one of the reasons I did my show in this style. I did it, and you can be honest with me about how you felt about it. But the reason I did it in the way I did was because I wanted to shake off that holier than thou I'm the teacher, I'm the guide.

I wanted just that to just go.

And so from the moment I came out, it was me making natural jokes, humor. Everything was just real. It was who I am in who I really believe I am, and on stage I feel like I can be three hundred and sixty degrees of who I am, which I can't always be in a video or a snapshot or whatever it may be. And if someone listens to the podcast, they get all of who I am, but it's on stage I can just totally let loose. My real goal of the show was to show people that they could

It's exactly what you did. And going back to this idea of instead of giving people the answer, it's more about presenting just more and more honest questions until they get there. That's exactly what you did on stage.

Now.

I don't know if I had the balls seet up on that stage. My god, some of those people were so raised. Yeah, the one near there YouTube tha Yeah, And that was incredible because watching them transform through their own answers, like that's that's true just that's true power for an individual. So it was incredible to see that for you instead, because like, yeah, usually like a show like that would typically just be you sharing wisdom, but it felt so interactive. So I definitely saw that from

I want to talk to you a bit about this journal you've built and created, because I think that you've thought about journals very differently. I think a lot of journals are very daily, and your journals feels like more like a journey that can kind of begin and wherever you want, which is beautiful. You both have talked about letters this whole time, Yeah, and you encourage letter writing

Get out of it.

One of my favorites is we have like a letter to Fear essentially, and it's basically you write a letter to fear and then the next you start asking its questions and you kind of start having this really beautiful, fluid conversation with fear. And our goal always is to get people out of this mindset of like bad good, because that is what shields us in all of these boxes.

Yeah, I think it's just valuable to climb into perspectives other than your own.

So there's one where.

You write yourself a letter as though you're your mother or father on the day you're born.

There's one where you talk to death. There's some one where you talk to fear.

And it's just very important to step outside of yourself, especially in forgiveness work or you know, if you need to express anger, whatever it is. A journal is a place where everything gets to belong. There's something too ugly, it just has to be honest.

That's really then also subconscious writing. That's been one of my favorite tools that we give them. We'll give there's like five or six just blank pages and basically we'll give you a subject and you have to write as fast as you can because it will quite literally get to your subconscious And acting coach actually did this with me. We're using my dad as a reference for the scene, and she was like, I want you to write as

I'm assuming that you both believe that most of us don't often connect with our subconscious or do we and do we not see the signs?

How do you feel about I.

Guess the question is does our subconscious ever try and communicate with us? Or is it something that we're always having to try and unlation unravel.

I feel like we're ruled by what remains buried in us. And I do a lot of dream work with my friend. He's a great dream analyst, and he's his Carl Jung Again. I love Carlo clearly, but it's that it's a language, and I think if your subconscious knows you're you're speaking

That's how I similar with intuition actually too, Like once you start building that intuitive and understanding you're intuitive pulses, you start having a stronger and stronger relationship with it, and then it's like and it's just speed doll, Like I can connect with the intuition immediately and it's yeah, it's yeah. I think that was another really incredible thing that we had with the Warriors because we were like, okay, let's talk about intuition, and all the girls were like,

I fully agree with you.

We have a relationship with money, we have a relationship with food, we have a relationship with our bodies, we have relationship with others, And that's something I wanted to talk to you both about. I imagine that a lot of questions you get have some correlation to dating, love a romantic partner. What are some of the subconscious beliefs

So that's so hardwired. What's the breakthrough insight for that?

At least for me? My work is and love surrendering the sword first. That's the only way to win the battle. And explain that to me, Like we it's very easy to throw up a guard and to tiptoe into something. Especially now there's so many options. You can be noncommittal so easily because there's always something you know, rich or smarter or pretty or whatever it is, versus actually leaning

How do you respond to that when it could be that someone took advantage of that, or someone misuse that openness and vulnerability.

That you gave them.

How do you reconcile that afterwards, in the aftermath that it only lasted three months or six months or whatever it was, and it wasn't as deep and beautiful as you wanted to commit towards.

There's not really a way for me to know that. You know, I can't peer into the future, and that's the risk I take in love reminds me of that colors your bron poem on Love, where he says, when love beckons, you follow him though his ways are hard and steep, you know it's true you might get wounded. And it's just the risk that we take with caring about people. You know, we'll lose them one way or another, whether they die before us or we die before them. The sphere of will I ever find my person is

More courage to lean in. Yeah, I want to echo that, just because I think we define successful relationships as lasting forever. Whereas for me and Alley, as we're learning and growing, it's really about letting it morph into whatever it's meant

How does that wran you? Real?

But at least it's an honest conversation. And I'm noticing that with our relationship. I've been in a relationship for four almost five years now, and that's it. Like every six to nine months, we just we have to, you know, have a conversation of like, hey, is there anything that's not being honored within the relationship that you feel like you need because I think going back to this masculine

Know what, what's your take on, like how this language of like high value man and high value woman is like permeated like social media culture relationships and like, yeah.

I don't know.

To me, it feels so transactional of I think we're drawn to people who bring out the side of us that needs to come out in a way. And I've always trusted that life will bring me the person that I meant to fall for, and I've trusted that I feel like I'll feel it when I see them versus if I create this checklist of like he has to make this much money and drive this car and look like this and do this. It takes the magic out of it, and I'm not actually present with the person

I agree at all.

Yeah, so I want to be surprised because love is such a greater force than me, and it's so humbling. And yeah, I guess when I hear the high value man, high value woman, it automatically to me insinuates that you don't have value or you know what I mean. It triggers is the self esteem thing. At least that's how I feel when I hear it.

Absolutely, Yeah, I love your take on it, and I think my take is that you can't really judge value in that way because I always give this example of like when I met RADI I was in debt and didn't have a job and didn't know what I was going to do. And so if I was judged on my value of my net worth or any of those things, it would have been minus. But I was not judged.

Whether you guys are have also.

So much fun to grow with you xactly and to be like I was there from the beginning. Like that's so satisfying and cool in its own way. So when we're always constantly looking for like the finished product of someone, it's like, well, then where's that gritty growth that I love so much, because at least that's what we have

I can listen to you both talk forever now we can on the easy A podcast.

I'm so excited.

I hope you're both going to have loads of conversations with each other too, because I could just hear you you two talk without any guests or anything.

It's been interesting being a host, like I will say so because like like watching you do this and how you're able to You're so present, You're able to wrap around a story and you're able to take different questions and you know, form them into new ones to take

But I finally realized that you realized that because in the beginning, when you're hosting yours and Neverson scared, and then you realize the person in the seat is as a way out a job, we were so No, you're both a phenomenal. I want to end with the final five, which we always do the end of every on purpose interview, but we're going to change it up. We're going to take questions from the journal because I think that would

Let's not start with that.

Yeah, I've got a really good one there for later on. We'll start with it an easy one. What piece of advice would you give to a younger you?

Your brain's just not fully formed. You're going to be Okay, I worry about it, like twenty five, it'll calm down, smooth sailing, but just like it's fine, You're good.

I love it.

Buckle up, baby, enjoy the ride.

Okay, great. If life stopped today, what would you regret not doing? I love that question.

Serving spending way we're talking to my family, you could be on the water more. Yeah, honestly nothing.

Oh yeah, that's beautiful.

That's an amazing place to be. Tell me about all the parts of yourself that you cringe at.

My unfiltered thoughts, my intrusive thoughts, It just will come out. I've been pretty good on this episode, but I love your intrusive thoughts. But they had just become my personality and it came I just yeah, there's moments where I'm like, don't, don't, and it just comes out. So I guess, Yeah, my intrusive thoughts are pretty cringey, especially when I just can't stop saying them out loud. I think it was being homeschooled.

Now this is all intrusive. I love it.

Yeah, I think I just cringe it being a walking and bumper sticker, like as a poet, I'm just so trained.

I can see her cringe to say line that she said, I.

Can't stand it. I think that's why I appreciate her. It's the balance. Yeah, there's nothing composed, and I'm too composed, and so somewhere will become a person in the middle.

I always say that, like I take life too seriously and Rady doesn't take life seriously at all.

Yeah, and it's the only way to balance it out.

Similar I know what I'm doing every minute of the day. All right, question number four, list of things that you're running from?

Okay, I just spit uh mortality to get like really deep. I've been feeling like I've been needing to face us in different types of ways. Maybe it's a plot plant

I'm running for my gifts. I think I've hit a certain comfortable place in writing, but I want to see how far I can go and stretch that muscle. But it feels like that Mary and Williamson quote if we're afraid of our power more than failure. I just butchered that terribly. But I'm afraid of that. I'm seeing how far I can go about You, Jay Shatty, what am.

I running from? Yeah, that's what you're saying, right that question. I literally wait to do this, Like I'm really excited. Am I running from?

I think I'm running from. I'm actually doing what I was talking about earlier. I'm running from a past self, an identity then no longer serves me. But I think I'm doing it not in the right way. So my history is important to me, and it's powerful, and it's so much the reason I am who I am today, and I think sometimes I'm trying to run away from my history because I'm so different today externally and in so many other ways. But I don't think that's the right thing to do, so i'd say that's what I'm

Right now?

That's the question that I wanted him to Oh is it?

Yeah?

Remember what what did it? Could say? Our friend Coop Blacks an extra set?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I interviewed two years ago.

Oh yeah, he's Oh my god, what's larger than life?

Yeah?

Oh my gosh. What am I brandtending not to know? Right now?

Oh?

No, oh no. That I was really hoping he wasn't going to ask that question, but I wanted to ask him that question.

And now we're in.

I think I do feel a little bit of fear of success with the podcast because we had this conversation with kot. There's a difference between sharing who you are and exposing who you are, and I always got nervous with that because with social media, it's everyone's just going to use any part of their life to gain attraction, and I really want to maintain a sense of privacy

What about you? I actually think it's what you said earlier about the inner piece external chaos. I find what brings me inner piece, I notice rocks the boat of people I love most a lot of the time, and so I really really struggle with not wanting to hurt

Yeah, well, thank you guys. What are you pretting not to know right now? I'd say it's I feel that there's a larger than life, bigger service that I'm meant to walk into, but I feel like the immediate keeps taking my attention, and so I'm pretending not to know that there's this bigger thing that will be hard at work people work that is asking me to pick up

So oh that's good, That's honest.

What I love about everything I've said to you guys, and even just sitting and do this activity with you, I love that those beautiful, simple, well crafted questions made me say things that I probably haven't said out loud to anyone in years. Maybe so you know the power of the questions. You've curated and chosen a really special and I'm so excited for people to dive into it. I'm honestly seeing with you both today, I can honestly say that I hope.

That you come back to teach me some more and offline as well. I mean, I actually genuinely mean that.

I'm not just saying that, I really hope you'll come back offline to teach me some more. I'm going to reach out to both of you. I can't wait for people to listen to easy A. I'm so excited for people to use the Becoming a Warrior journals. And I'm rooting for you guys and forever in your corner and anyway that I can be, and so grateful that you came on purpose.

You're the best ever. Thank you so much. You've supported me for years and I just I feel so much gratitude when I think of you and Roddy and like truly you've you guys kind of like took me under your wings. So I really really appreciate it, and thank you for welcoming Ali.

Of course, thank you.

You really create such a beautiful safe space where it elicits honesty in a way that's not invasive.

It's like calm honesty. It doesn't feel supportive and loving.

Yeah, yeah, thank you. It means the world to me.

Did I not ask you anything that you wanted to share or something that was on your heart and mind that you really want to share with the community right now? If there's anything, please feel free. It's open floor.

I just think the Box conversation has just been so relevant in my life in the last year, and it always just comes back to this idea of giving the world us individuals the grace of change, because it's truly what we need. And that's why I, me and Ali have such a close connection, because we've given each other the grace of change and we need that more than ever in this world.

I fully agree Ali Annie what she said. I love it.

Everyone has been listening or watching wherever you are, whether you're walking your dog, you're at home, you're on the way to work, on the way back from work, you're at the gym, wherever you are. Please make sure that you tag all three of us. Tag Ali, tag Alexis, tag myself. Let us know what stood out to you,

Everyone. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you.

If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So tree doesn't go over it's hard and thick, does it. It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.