3 Ways to Know if You are Being Codependent & Why We Should Practice Forgiveness

And the way she interviewed me was so smart. She actually asked me questions from my book Think like a Monk from the Purpose chapter and broke it down incredibly well. So if you want to hear a full on, entertaining, enlightening, and phenomenal conversation with the one and only Whitney Commings, this episode is for you. What I love about this episode is how open I get, how reflective I get, and hopefully you get to learn a bit more about my journey, especially if you love the book Think Like

a Monk. I know you're gonna love this episode. Jay Jatty, finally you're here. I'm sorry having to be it. Thank you, Renny, I'm grateful to be it. The thing I really want to start with to frame this conversation with you is that so much of what you talk about is about compassion and kindness and service. And on this podcast, all of you that know me know that I am in recovery for codependence. And a big part of codependence is you give too much of yourself. You become a doormat,

You have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility. You martyr yourself for people you know. In codependence, we do the three ms martyr, micromanage, and mother. We rescue people, we self deprive. We give too much. Right, Codependence breeds resentment, perfectionism. We're the people that cook a full meal for our whole family, but don't eat anything, and at the end we're eating scraps over the kitchen sink. Right, So we are too

nice sometimes. And so as I was reading your book, I found myself going, I hope in this conversation we can sort of talk about how to tell when you're compassion and love and forgiveness and kindness, which you talk about so elegantly in your book, how we can develop the skill to delineate when it's codependence and when it's

thinking like a monk. I love that I'm totally with you on that and That's such an important point because I think that's the difference that I think a lot of these words now have become buzzwords, yes, and they fly around. And because of that, we have a really beginner's understanding of these deep essential qualities and values, and so we practice them at beginner's level. And at that level, they're still based on wanting validation. They're still based on

wanting to fit in. They're still based on wanting to be a part of being dependent or being codependent. They're not coming from a place of internal purification and greatness. So I'm totally with you on that, and I'm motives. It's really about motives like if you find yourself and if someone were to ask me, like you know, because I love that you talk about service in this book. It's such a big part of I think what is going to fix everything that's broken in our society is

to be able to give. And I think people don't understand that giving is actually selfish. You know. I feel like I'm saying this in a way that's grosser, which is why my book probably wasn't the number one best seller and his was because I say, I sound like a psychopath, which is like when you give to others, it's selfish. You benefit when you give it, like everybody wins. Absolutely, It's like forgiveness. We forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness,

but because we deserve peace. Forgiveness is selfish, absolutely, But the intention with which we give defines how deeply we feel it. So let's let's take, for example, two people who want to give in charity this year. One person wants to give it because they really believe that the kids deserve more food and better shelter and better support. The other person gives because they think it will be a good pr story or they think that it would look good for them to give it. Correct, there you go.

So you've got two people. Let's say they both give a million dollars each. Yeah, it's obvious who's going to feel more joy. Now bear in mind the kids benefit of the money either way. But the person giving only receives joy when they did it with the intention of actually serving. Yes, And that's the missing link around giving, because giving isn't just the act of time money, it's the act of energy, presence, and intention and also just

taking your mind off yourself. I mean, in twelve step programs. The reason we do service, like honestly is to take the focus off yourself because the more we and it's tricky, and I find myself struggling with the balance of this like self help, self love and self self self so self so self and when it becomes selfish and when it's selfless and you know, my brain, I just get so turned around in self care, ality is thinking about myself and take care of myself and myself and it's

just me, me, me, me me ultimately. Yeah, and when does self care become selfish? And you do a really good job I think for anyone that is confused laying it out in a way that it's not like and also for people that non Hollywood people, the people that are buying your book, that we're actually you know, talking to you and not amongst like who they are, Like, I have three jobs. All I do is ser Yeah, yeah, I have four kids. Exactly, I actually need to do

less service. I actually need to be less compassionate and take care of myself like finding that balance. Yeah, absolutely, And that's what I loved about the Monk Path that I chose, that the morning was all about the self. Yeah, and then rest of the day was about service, and that gives you a really good blueprint around how that works in the sense of if you've not done something for yourself every day, yeah, if you've not taken your

time to invest in yourself every day. And that isn't just a you know it's it comes so much from understanding yourself, and understanding yourself comes from the place of knowing yourself and getting to know yourself. And most of us spend so much time codependency trying to get to know someone else and what their needs, anticipate their needs, and then shape shift so that I can be what I think you want totally evolve, Yeah, evolve and transmorph into this person that will be the best for them.

But what about if you did that for yourself to start with? And so most of us don't even know what we want to eat for dinner on a given day, or like what our favorite movies are. We struggle, We sit there for like hours trying to figure out what to watch because we haven't really got to know ourselves. And so to me, getting to know yourself is very basic. After you eat me, I'll ask yourself, did I enjoy that? What did I like about it? Did I feel great

twenty four hours after reading it? After watching a movie? What did I like about it? Why did I enjoy it? Those basic questions will give you a month's deeper understanding of yourself. God, it's so important, Jay, I can't believe like it took me so long. I just turned thirty eight. You're September six. I am September four. I know and many other Virgo season because I can't believe how much of my life I have spent doing things that I didn't even really want to do, and then I didn't.

I didn't even know. Someone would ask me to go for a hike and I'd be like sure. Like I just thought friendships felt obligatory. I just felt they kind of felt like work. I just felt like you kind of had to agree with things that you didn't want to agree with. I just felt like you kind of

had to laugh at jokes that weren't funny. Like I just thought that's what friendship was like, I didn't know, Like, and reading this book, it really made me stop and go like, Okay, I just hang out with that person. Did it film me up? Do I feel depleted by that person when they text me? Do I get a pit in my stomach? Am I excited to respond? Or do I? Can? I just respond whenever I want? Because I had all these friendships that were like, oh god,

she text me, I need to text your back. Girls, She'll be mad that we're all about keeping score, and then we're all about recreating my childhood circumstance of a borderline personality narcissist mother and you, and I think so few of us just stop and go. Did I enjoy that meal? Yeah? Do I even like these movies? Do I even like this person that I'm hanging out with

every day? Yeah? And it all comes from confirmation bias, So we have this safety mechanism of it's more comfortable for the mind to feel we agree than create a moment of conflict. So the mind will continuously confirm and surround ourselves with people that confirm our biases, or we confirm theirs for the feeding of comfort, so we feel better when it's like you tell me you like that blood orange energy drink, so for me to feel like you fit in and we're gonna get along and we're

gonna have a friendship for a long time. Yeah, I would feel like if I confirm that bias, I've not tried it before. Then I would feel like I fit in with you. And that's kind of how we were trained is wired to kind of for harmony. Correct, we're wired for harmony, but we look to harmonize over the wrong thing. We harmon and then what happens. This is an our case. But then you say you like this, and I'm like great, and then I liked And now you just made a friend that you don't want. Yeah, totally.

And now every time I come here, you give me this drink. Yes, it's sort of like it's dishonest. And I think that that served us really well in tribal times when we needed safety from the tribes before alarm systems and locks on doors because we needed safety from everyone, right, But now these are these like obsolete tools that are frankly liabilities. Like to me, I see an epidemic of

just being too nice. Creating harmony with toxic people does not benefit you, no, and over dishonest things, I think that's really important that you can connect. And also when you're looking at a thing or an object or a like or a dislike to connect, it's it's pretty shallow ground to connect on because you may change your mind about that drink tomorrow, and now we're talking about drinks. But you may change your mind on a hobby. You may change your mind on an interest, you may change

your mind on an activity. But usually people stay pretty grounded to values and qualities. And that's kind of this confirmation bias has just created so many issues because we also go around and look for people who confirm our biases. So then we get into this bubble and this cloud of thinking that we can't break. You're making me realize something. I think that is just we all can look at we are we love black and white thinking, because humans love can we want an answer even if it's the

wrong answer. Yeah, we just want true so that we have some samblets of control. And I'm in this new relationship and I find myself wanting to it's not a relationship. What am I saying? Black and white thinking? It's somewhere in between. We're not dating, if we're not together. I want so badly to feel safe. My inner child needs an answer so bad that I'm like, do you like

to travel or do you not like to travel? And He'll be like, well, it depends on where I'm traveling and I'm like, well, what's the you know, and so do you cheat or do you not cheat? And he's like, well, it's different with me. None of these answers are going to apply to me because this is a new situation. But it's made me realize how anxious, you know, preoccupied, and how much I perseverate and how much my inner

child panics, which she doesn't have an answer yes. And I think if we just acknowledge, like you talk about in this book and are being so elegant about enough, we just acknowledge our need for the polarity, we can then release it. It's just like even the awareness of knowing totally. And we're all so much more proportions and percentages in different scenarios than we are one or the other.

And it's the same thing I say to people when they're like, oh, yeah, you know, I don't know if my intention is completely pure or if it's material or spiritual. I'm like, we're both all of it. Like it's all of it, like me, dude, Like we all are like you, just you're always trying to move in the right direction. The problem is we're addicted to a right decision right and that's the problem that we're just trying to move into the right direction. We're just moving closer to that.

And as long as you're moving closer in the right direction with someone, with yourself, with whatever it is that you're learning, don't give so much emphasis to the decision that the direct onset, you know, the destination, all of that kind of you're so right about what you just said about the child and so many of us not having had clarity as young people about where we stood with our parents or where we stood with our partners, and now we demand what we did or didn't get

from our parents in our relationships. It's the unfinished business. Yes, you know. It's sort of like it took me so long to stop recreating my childhood circumstances because I think we have this subconscious pull obviously to recreate the neurochemical cocktail that's comfortable for us. It's like when you see someone in a crazy relationship, You're like, how do they deal with that? All day? They're in a cocoon. They are so comfortable doing it, that is all they know.

It's like the devil, you know, And I find myself recreating my childhood circumstances and yes, trying to basically just heal that wound. Heal that wound. Who's gonna heal it? Who's going to fix it? And it's there, no one now have to do it. Yeah, there's a beautiful statement that you reminded me of by a monk named tick Natan.

He's incredible, and he said that we choose familiar pain over unfamiliar pain every time, we just repeat it because that familiar pain gives us a feeling of safety, of security of like I know what pain I'm going to feel, and I'd rather keep repeating it than maybe venture out into this new land of unfamiliar pain, which I don't know what it feels like. It's comfortable. Yeah, it's like that pair of heels that always gives you a blister.

I got the bandaid, Like it's amazing. How And I think that I'm glad that we're talking about this because we are so adaptable, Like there's so many people that reach out to me though, like is it too late for me to change? Is it too late for me to go to alan on meetings? Is it too late for me to stop being jealous and possessive and a love addict or sex adict or whatever. And I'm like, dude, we think about how quickly you adjusted to those sandals

that are giving you blisters. You were like just put in a band aid and I'm just going to take them off after an hour at the wedding, Like we actually can't adjust so quickly. That's a great analogy. I'm gonna I'm gonna share that now from now and I love that one. I'm gonna be like, yeah, Writty and me and we're like, yeah, this is that's a brilliant analogy.

I love it. You're gonna talk about blisters. I'm going to do about blisters and heels and when I wear heels, you'll really fit in an Okay, there's a Vedic personality test in your book. Will you tell me about it?

So when I lived as a monk and we studied the Vedas, I came across this incredible concept named dharma, and dharma is very difficult to translate into English, but when you do it, the closest things are eternal purpose and inherent nature or your natural inclination, and those are things It's almost like, well, what is your natural, most effortless, flow filled state that you can live by that you

feel fulfilled in right. And so when you break that down, you get dharma basically equates to an equation which is passion plus strengths plus compassion. What is at the center of all of that that is dharma. And so the personality test that I give is to help you, and I've loved so first of all, there is no personality test or astrological chat that's going to give you the answer that you need. But they're good indicators. And seeing

you're trying to say astrology is not a science. I mean it is a science, last but I'm not sure how many people can do it properly. But this personality test was put in there to help people get closer to the answer. And that's what I think all of these tools do. It's just about moving you in the right direction. But you're making me realize, like I want to do a couple of these. Yeah, let's do it. Has anyone done this? Has anyone given you the vadic

personality test? I've don't know my own, but publicly, oh no, no, no, no no, no, oh great, Oh let's do it? Oh great, oh great? Yeah, I love that this. I just love this book because it's like it's real tools. I'm sorry, there's a lot of like by a crystal water bottle and your life will get better, Like what are you talking about? Use charcoal toothpaste and you'll find your soulmate.

Like this is actual, like how to rewire your brain, how to get to know yourself better with actual tools instead of just like and quotes that are always attributed to Oscar Wild even though he didn't say half that and we know it. Okay, you're going to answer these questions as who you believe you are at the core, beyond what friends, family, or society have made you. Choose which of the following sounds And I want you guys to follow along and take this quiz with us. Like it.

Which of the following sounds most like what you're about? Values and wisdom, integrity and perfection, work hard, play hard, or stability and balance. Yeah, so a very important question. I'm going to add a caveat to help everyone out as well, seeing as this is the first time everyone's doing it public age. Everyone's follow along, get your pen and paper. Is you're not trying to answer it as

what your job's made you. You're not trying to answer as what you've become because of something like sometimes we become something because we had to become it to be more successful. You want to answer it at your core, and the closer you get, and that's hard. I get that, that's that's not easy to do. But the more you keep asking yourself the course, sometimes they say to this, like the first thing you think of is you. That's

actually not true. It's it's actually you need more stillness, silence and solitude in space to actually slow down a bit and go, well, what am I really? And it's also not your ideal self. So that's the other mistakes he extremes. Again, we oscillate between our society self and ideal self. So then people answer it's like, oh, yeah, that's the one I want to be. So it's not that either. As I'm looking at this WHOA, I was like, well, this is what my dad would have wanted. My dad

would have wanted work hard, play hard. And I was going to pick work hard, play hard. It should be work hard, cry hard. But I think i'm values in wisdom. Yeah, and so I am too. Oh this is a good one. What role do you play in your friend's circle and family? Hey, I'm comfortable dealing with conflict and helping people find middle ground. My role as the mediator B I make sure everything and everyone is taken care of. My role as the protector.

I feel like that might be me. I helped my family understand work at the hustle and the value of having resources. My role is material support. I think I'm that now. Hit my venmo D. I focus on nurturing and wanting a healthy and con tent family. My role as emotional. So I'll give it again another another side note for everyone who's watching and listening, you probably do

all four of these. I was going to say, I'm so glad we're doing this together because I've picked five different ones and now that you're here, yeah, we can talk about it. That's my point. So you're going to feel and especially when you read these, you're always going to feel like you're everything. And the reason for that is we've never really spent the time to think about who we really are. And also I shape shift and I'm different basically, no, I'm worth and who people want

me to be? Correct, And so you want to pull back again and go, I am all four? But in which order? Am I? Right? So you want to break you down and be like, well, which one do I prioritize the first? So I'll give an example. It's almost like if you were put into a situation where you had to make a choice, which one do you say? This is the first thing I think about, right, this is the first thing I think about when it comes

to my family. So if you heard if someone called you up and said, I want to tell you something about your family, which is the first thing that you think of that comes to your mind? The mediate? Would you protect you, material support or emotional? Correct? Like, which one do you feel drawn to play as a role first and first? Correct? First and most? Because you are all of them, we all are, I think protector, right' I'm like vicious about that. I'm the mediator. Really, yeah,

I'm the mediator. I have been since I was a kid, Like Switzerland, you're neutral? That it like, yeah, kind of. No, I wouldn't say I'm neutral. I would say that I'm yeah. Maybe I guess that's a definition of judgment. Yeah, the one they can see all sides. I try to. Yeah, I've always been that way, and that really annoys my family because people in my family would be like, why don't you see it from my side more than you see it from there. A nightmare. I'm terrible, monk, terrible,

terrible to have a monk in the families. No way you can ever be communicate me. Yeah, there's no way you can win and fight with the mom. What is the most important to you in a partner? Number A literacy, A honest and smart, be strong, presence in power, see fun and dynamic, d reliable and respectful, all of the above. No, that's not good credit. Yeah, let's not neither of them again? You want all four? Yeah, it's better again. And therefore, a lot of relationships come down into two areas where

we get to the polygamy part of Jay's philosopy. That's that's chapter didn't make the book, But that's important because the two sides of that are in a relationship, you have priorities and preferences. Right, there are things that you will prioritize that you really want in someone, and then they have to be preferences where you're like, that's a bonus. I like that, but it's not all going to be there. Nice. Yeah, it would be nice, exactly what mean it's not essential?

I wanted to say a honest and smart, and that is super important to me. But strong presence and power. I'm embarrassed to admit it, and I'm ashamed, but I do lose attraction to people if they're not powerful like I like to feel. You shouldn't be ashamed of that. Yeah, you shouldn't embarrassed about that. A tool, Okay, tall, All I care about is tall, I'm sure sure, But you should. I need I do need someone who feels powerful, who I feel protected by. That's looking for a father, but

that's yeah, I get it. But you definitely shouldn't feel embarrassed about it. And I think that's partly what it is, is that when we do these activities, we kind of look for the one that makes us feel the most comfortable and happy rather than the one that's actually true. And that's why we attract the wrong people into our life. And that's why we spend ten years with someone and we're not sure they're the right person, but because they looked good on paper. And just be honest with it.

As I'm taking the quiz, I'm trying to impress Jay with a good answer instead of saying the truth, and the truth impresses me more. The imps people like you so much more. Well, like, when you're trying to get validation from people, the irony is trying to get it, and being anctuous is what's repellent. Yeah, so just being honest is what makes people like you at all. Take me so longer realize that, and all of these ideas

have implanted in our minds. This is a good question that I struggled with, answering what do you watch most often on TV? A documentaries, biographies, and human observations, the entertainment, politics, current affairs see comedy, sport, drama, motivational stories, d soap operas, reality TV, family gossip, daytime shows. And I'm curious if the motive matters, because I definitely watched documentaries. Biography is the most, but it's because I'm insecure about my intelligence.

It's embarrassing to admit, but I watched TV as a way to try to get smarter, to try to get information, to try to be interesting, and to try because my biggest fear in life is being boring in a conversation, or not knowing something that someone else knows, and or like having the fomo and a group where everyone's seen something and I haven't. So it's like, if everyone's watching a documentary, I'm like, I have to watch it so that I'm not left out. So does it matter that

that's why I want pick a? No, because it's mixed again. So what I heard in there is there's a lot of values and wisdom there, Like you want to have more knowledge, you want to have more insight. Now the reason you want to have it isn't perfect, but that's not bad. It's still a great It's better to be informed than uninformed. Yeah, so you're winning already. But I think all of us have to move in our values. So I've given it. This is gonna sum it up

really beautifully. The Bugga geeta. There's three intentions behind everything, and they're either the mode of ignorance, the motive passion, or the mode of goodness. So there are these three modes that any action, any habit, any intention can be done in. So the mode of ignorance is when you do things out of fear or anxiety. The mode of passion is when you do things for desire or result, and the mode of goodness is when you do things

from love or compassion or curiosity. Like that, they're kind of like love or thirst, and so in that most of us, including me, our state of being is very mode of ignorance. We do most of what we do out of fear and anxiety. And the problem with that is is that when you do something out of fear and anxiety, it doesn't suddenly transform into love and compassion or joy or meaning or purpose. It stays that way and continues to perpetuate that cycle of needing to get

more of that fear and anxiety. So that's something that we can push an upgrade from. So next time you want to do something and you're watching a documentary, be like, all right, right now, I'm starting this by doing it because I'm scared of not looking smart or not being conversationalist. But actually, you know what, this time, I'm going to intentionally change my intention to be because I'm going to do it's I just love being informed and I want

to be informed. I can share this and you literally do that intentionally, and you will see how your experience changes. It's that metaphysical, like literally sitting there and just literally walking yourself through it and changing your mindset around something can change your experience of it. As soon as you feel guilty or judge yourself or criticize yourself. You actually start losing energy to that, and that's the same energy

that's going to help you get out of that. And so as monks, it was almost like you would laugh when you'd catch yourself letting the monkey mind go lose. And so in the beginning the book, as we've got the monkey mind in the monk mind, the monk might almost laughs when it notices the monkey and goes, okay, I saw you, I see you, I see you my fear, I see ego, I see what you're trying to do there.

And it's that kind of like fun, playful spotting. It's almost like you just saw your dog running around out side. You're like, I can stay mad at you. Yeah, that's silly good exactly. I love that. And that's something we do in STEP programs, is you befriend your character defects because they are trying to protect you. They're trying to help you. It's like when your dog goes out and barks at the mailman and you're like, you know, it's not a threat, but the dog is just trying to

protect you, you know. And so the chance that the dog's right when it isn't the mailman, Like yes, because sometimes those those tools worked really well and there were real threats back in the day and those tools weapons were very necessary, but they just third now obsolete. Like the war is over right, as we say in program, the war is over. You lost? Like just I love that, Like just sort of having levity around the your negative inner monologue or your negative thoughts, like you don't have

to take them seriously. They don't have to. It's like watching Star Wars or say it's it's it's just a it's just a science fiction movie. I'm not good enough. He doesn't like me. I suck. I'm gonna be alone forever, like you they those don't have to be true. It's like, oh, those are just crazy thoughts and they're silly and yeah,

I love that and yeah. And what we do in you know program is if you have a character defect, sometimes you name them, like your selfishness has your name, and you're like, hey, Bill, like what are you doing here today? Oh you want to come say hi, like I don't need you today. I'm good. You know, you can sit back on the bench like don't need you in the game today. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Yeah, and trust programs amazing. It's so well designed from a

human psychology point of view. And it's just that naming peep voices in your head is brilliant. Yes, it's so important making them characters, because then otherwise you think they you. That's the point, that's the whole point of it. Yeah. What causes you the most pain A feeling like I don't live up to my own expectations, be the state of the world, see, a sense of rejection, d feeling disconnected from friends and family. Yeah, that's a big one.

Repeat the first one again. Feeling like I don't live up to my own expectations. Yeah, is that the first one? Yes? Yeah, yes, that can be here as you think. Yeah, that's definitely one. What causes you the most pain? This is a tricky one. Being rejected by men I don't even like um. Yeah that one. Feeling like I don't live up to my own expectations. Yeah, that's definitely my lie. But but my own expectations are outrageous, They're ridiculous. But that's why we

shouldn't feel that. Yeah, and by the way, I've achieved most of them against all us I should just be like thinking I'm awesome, you should and instead I'm like, I achieved that impossible thing, but I was wearing the wrong shirt. Yeah, and I had sweatstains. You gave a terrible speech, yes, yeah, gave a terrible speech. You get or I'll go like, like you killed with that speech, and then I'll be like, oh god, how much attention

do you need? How desperate? Like oh yeah, we do that, but constantly it's just it's just so roasting myself, roasting yourself. You've just reminded me of one of my favorite stories that that actually I didn't put in the book. It's it's a story told by the Buddha. Feeling you'll get another offer for a book, feeling you'll have a sequel here. It's a it's a story that the Buddhy used to tell.

And in this story, it's like this person comes across a river and it's a fast flowing river, and the person wants to get across to get to their destination. And so they're looking at and going, okay, well what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And they start noticing that there's some bamboo sticks around, they can find some rope. They can find some things

to make a little raft. So they start gathering all of this stuff, laying it on top of each other, trying to tie it all up together, and they finally create this raft. And then they create a little oar with a stick, and then they go onto the water and they get to the other side. And when they get to the other side, they go this person says, oh, wow, this raft literally saved my life, Like this raft is amazing. Without this raft, I would never have crossed this river.

And so what they do is they strapped the raft to their back because they're like, I have to take this raft with me because it's so important to me. And so they start walking, start walking, start walking, and now as they walk away, they now come through one of the most wooded lands in the world. So all these trees are in front of them, and they start trying to get through, and they realize that they can't get through because this raft is strapped to their back

and they're trying to let maneuver and swish through. And then they come to realize and the person realizes that actually this raft that got them here is not going to help them go through this and they have to let go of the raft. They have to let go of the thing that actually saved them in the past or help them get through the past because it's no longer relevant today. And the Buddha obviously goes on to tell us that that's our habits, that's how our mindsets,

that's even our skills and our strengths. We may have had something that saved us five years ago, ten years ago, but don't hold on to it because you think it's still useful, because actually it could make your life a living hell. Like trying to get a raft through the wooded land would actually be a lot harder. But what if there's another river, Then you'll build another, Then you build another raft. That's the point you're building that bridge.

You'll figure out again because you know you've done it before so that you can always go back to. But sometimes you have to leave behind the tools or at least put them back in the tool kit for now and learn another tool or learn another approach. And I think that's what twelve step is, That's what this is.

That's what everything we're discussing is just us going, oh, well, there may be a tool that I haven't yet going my tool books that's going to help me, which is why we say one day at a time, because we go not yesterday, not tomorrow. What about just now? Yeah? Right, you know, so stop trying to solve problems or anticipate problems from five days from now, and you can't stay clean on the shower you took yesterday. What is your favorite way of working? Ay, alone but with mentors and guides.

B in a team as a leader. CE independently but with a strong network. D in a team as a member. See, I have this constitutional need to be special, and I'm like, none of these apply to me because I'm so special, which is me. I'd said that, which it's important. It's a big part of the addictive personality to go. No one understands me, no one knows the kind of pain I'm in. I'm so unique, no one will ever get me, which is why I need to do this addictive behavior.

And I'm different. So I had I'm having a little bit of that's good. I'm having a little bit of it come up right now. I would say, well, because I'm like, I do this weird job where I do stand up and it's so I would say it would be independently but with a strong network because I do what I do independently, but I couldn't do without the fans in the Yeah. So yeah, it's this This question

is all about the energy that you thrive in. So a lot of people, for example, feel the pressure today to be leaders or entrepreneurs or CEOs because almost like there's this influx of like excitement in the industry today of seeing more people be founders, and now everyone thinks they have to be a founder, or everyone thinks they have to be a YouTuber because that's the cool thing. And so so it's like everyone wants to be the

front of house. Interesting when actually a lot of us thrive being Steven Spielberg, right, or a lot of us thrive being the person behind the camera. A lot of us thrive being the two wonderful people that we have it today or recording like there's that's what we call it. That's what my therapist always says. She's like, be a worker bee. You don't always you have my matchbox with bees. You don't always have to be the face or the hero of our correct sometimes you're not the best qualified.

Everyone is sort of the queen Bee of there. There's everyone's a what did you say, everyone's the singer. Yeah, just the band looks different. You know, that's interesting, like like my producer is a singer. Like everyone's a singer. There's no background, it's just a different dynamic. Yeah. And I definitely see total value in that mindset, and then you see it the way that people can apply it

to their life. So there's this great conversation between Steve Wasniac and Steve Jobs, and they acted out in the movie that they made, and so Steve Wasniak and I'm a big Steve Jobs fan and it's if you haven't read Walter Isaacson's book on him, it's amazing. And so Steve Wasnieks looking at Steve Jobs and having an argument, and he says to Steve Jobs, guess, well, what do you even do? And imagine looking at Steve Jobs and

going what do you even do? And and Steve Wozniac goes, you're not an engineer, you're not a coder, you're not an artist, you're not a marketer or whatever. He says. He says, what do you even do? And Steve Jobs says, musicians played their instruments. I played the orchestra. Yeah, And it's that understanding of the unique strength of like there may be the best violin player, or there may be the best string quartet there, but his role was not

being good at any of those. He doesn't have to play the violin or the viola or the whatever it is. He knows how to bring it together. And I think that's what we get confused by sometimes, is that we see the people on the front cover of magazines or the front of the show, and we think that's who I need to be to be happy or successful. It takes fifty people to make them a person, and you know, and it took me. You know, I made a movie. I kept thinking, I'm directing a movie. I'm directing a movie.

I'm starring in the movie. And you think I'm the most important person here. I have all this pressure. I mean, the most important person on a movie set is the sound engineer, someone who they will never know his or her name. Necessarily, they are the most important person on a movie. You don't realize until you get in posts. You know, costume most important. So you know, I think that we are. I'm so glad you brought that up, because we are in such like a me moment. I'm

just everyone can. It's becoming more democratic, the fame and wealth and rising to fame, and yet everything's a team and you have to be able to play well with others and respect other people's com Yeah, and actually, as talent, you will respect your team more because you realize the value they bring when you know your verdic personality type in your dam By the way, we're seeing sorry more

and more the people who don't understand that are getting canceled. Yeah, it's like it's the jig is up, you know what I mean. Like the people who are now there's that human resources department really get Yeah. Yeah, I'm the top one again. You're alone, but with mentors and guides. Correct. I function best when I have a lot of space, when I have a lot of stillness, when I'm alone, when I'm working with myself, and I can tap into

like people who've really excelled in their fields. And by the way, for a long period of time, that was just books, Like I grew up reading biographies and autobiographies because that's all I had access to growing up. So I loved reading about m Okay and Malcolm X and Steve Jobs, and I devide Beckham the first autobiographer. I read and it was just yeah, and it's just you know, I was. I was drawn towards real life stories because

I couldn't ask them myself. How would your ideal self spend spare time ay, reading, in deep discussion and reflecting, be learning about issues, and are attending political events? See, there's no such thing as spare time networking, connecting working, that's mine. D enjoying time with family and friends, mine would be there's no such thing as spare time networking, connecting working, that's mine. I have shame around it, but it's the truth. But there's no shame in it. Yes, yeah,

there's no shame in it. It's fine, Okay, it's who you are. You're right, You're right. The idea is to get to know your authentic self, not judge, and then decide whether you want to and I can actually address it correct. Yeah. Then otherwise, what we do is we make our intentional and ideal self feel like who we are. Right, So what we do is we go, Okay, that's the one I feel embarrassed about being. So I'm actually just going to say I'm my ideal self in my heart

because that's what I'm really trying to be. So I'll give an example of what I mean by that. There's a there's a really good study that I shared in the book about the Good Samaritans. So the Good Samaritans obviously trained to be good people and do good in

the world and be kind to people. They're told that they have to give a speech on being a good Samaritan, and they have to go from their classroom in Building A to the exam room in Building B where they will be tested, and I have to give this speech. But they're told literally like fifteen minutes before they have to do it, so they're all stressing out. So they're stressing out, the stressing out, the stressing out. They run

down the building. They're trying to run across to their exam room because they're told, you've got fifteen minutes you've got to give this speech. They're practicing on the way and someone with a really hurt leg is lying on the floor. The decoy it's not real, and there's someone with the hurt leg lying on the floor. And they found that over fifty percent of the Good Samaritans ignored the person who is in pain on the floor to go and give a speech. About being a good Samaritan.

So they didn't actually do the act of being a good Samaritan. And that's what happens when our intention of being a higher self doesn't match with the action of being a higher self. And so when you're addressing you say, actually, you know what, I should have stopped and taking care of that person and help them up and you know, been better to them, and okay, well then I can change to become that. But if you just ignore it and go, oh, yeah, but I know what the value is,

I know what the higher values. Does that make sense? Yes, that's total sense. No, I was just my comedian brain kicked in going and I was just like, how good of an actor was the Oh you're like they were a terrible actor. Yeah. True. That is a really good point. I think I think you should make sure that you go into these studies and make sure they picked good actors. If the costume was terrible, I have to I'll come back later and do this weird. That is brilliant. That brilliant.

I love that. That is brilliant. I never thought of that all along. It was the bad acts. Hard to pretend it was the bad act when you're really in pain. You're just kind of quiet and there and the ketch up. Yeah. How would you describe yourself in three words? He idealistic, introverted, insightful, be driven, dedicated, determined, see passionate, motivated, friendly, decaring, loving, loyal. Yeah, I have to be honest. I want to be passionate, motivated,

and friendly, and I think I am those things. But if I'm going to be honest, I'm be driven dedicated into terms. I wake up like me too. Got gotta achieve something, gotta do it. I'm with you on that. Gotta be passionate, motivated and friendly and caring and loving and loyal. It's like you know, so, I think it's See in what type of environment do you work best?

A remote, still, silent natural, be a meeting room or gathering place, see anywhere and everywhere, d a specific a space specific to my type of work, home, office, laboratory. I think I work best in a meeting or gathering space. I do need to be accountable. I need and I need to be a little bit competitive. If I'm gonna be honest, I need to see other people working, even if it's a if they're not even working, even if they're secretly on Facebook and I pretend they're working and

I think I'm falling behind, and it motivates me. Ye see the reason why what you just did and this is what I'm hoping everyone's going to do when they read this spot is it's so important to know that because now you actually have a pattern that you can repeat. And it's not true. And so most of us wake up in the morning and we go, I'm not motivated to work today, I don't like what I'm going to do today. I'm not happy to do whatever it is.

And it's like, well, have you created the right environments? Have you put yourself in the right space, set yourself up to have you exactly? That's all it is. And the only way you'll know that is if you answer that question and have the reflection you didn't go, Okay, Well, if I go to a gathering place today, or if I go to this place and I'm around other people, let me see how I do. And then you'll go and you'll test it out and then you'll like, Okay,

that didn't work, let me try the other one. Right, And so if you're unsure, it's just about trying all of these options rather than just leaving it up and also just in just surrendering to something not working going. I guess this is the way it's always going to be, exactly like, that's it easy, that's that one. How do you prepare for a vacation? Oh no, hey by picking my reading material, be, having a focused plan of key sites to visit. See with a list of the best bars, clubs,

and restaurants. D with an easy going attitude. B for me, I mean we're both virgo September four in sex. Yeah, having a focused plan of key sites to visit. Yeah. I don't always have to do it, though. I am a person that I'll preplan, pre plan, pre plan, which I really encourage everyone to do this because I'm realizing that I need something to look forward to with planning things, to me is almost as good as doing them. Yeah yeah, ye, just having it in the calendar. So I'm that person

that and I drive my wife crazy. I'm like, I need a schedule for the day to know what we want to achieve to do. The fact that your wife has the one man that makes a schedule and doesn't appreciate it and I will have words. I'm like, I want to schedule and even if we don't get to all of it, I'm okay with that, but I want to know that we made a plan and that we were trying to get to all of it. We need it. I want to know what what I'm going to experience it.

But see, here is where we stop thinking people don't care about us in the sense of because our answer is be we think that if someone cares about me,

then they will make a plan. But what we don't realize is that that's not how they so for them, how they feel loved and show love is easy going number D letter D. And that's where it gets so fragmented in relationships because we so I would be like that with my wife, would be like, well, you you obviously don't love me enough because you're not organized about the schedule of the day, and she was just but

I just don't think like that. My parents never. My parents always did all the planning and we just went along with what they did. And where was my parents wanted me to plan and get involved. And so it's so interesting how we start looking at these things as gaps in our relationship and that's not necessarily true. How do you feel if you make a mistake. I feel guilty and ashamed. Yes, B, I have to tell everyone, see I want to hide it. D I reach out

to someone supportive. I feel guilty and ashamed. I feel guilty and ashamed first, and then I probably do D, which is reach out to someone that can kind of give me some context on it. I kin reaching out to someone who I think holds me to hire standards and we'll be able to speak about it with me without judging me, because I need to not judge myself. And sometimes I feel like we need someone else in our life who doesn't judge us for a mistake, and we go, oh, okay, I don't have to judge when

I realize you didn't even make one. Yeah, that's it might just be your perfection totally. My therapist always says, she's like, I have good news and bad news. Nobody cares, like this huge mistake you think everyone's obsessing about, like you're not trending. Yeah cares. Yeah. I love that one.

And I think it's so important that people have different people they call for different things because the mistake we make again again, The opposite is that we tell one person everything ye or we tell everyone everything, and both of those don't work because that one person gets completely drained and distance from us because they can't deal with that level of overwhelm. And then when you tell everyone everything,

we all know what that goes like. So it's so much more important to be like, Okay, when I have a career challenge, this is the person I go to. When I have this, I go to this And you may say, well, how do I start. It's important to start building those relationships with people in your life that have different skills that they provide you and you provide something back to them too. And also, don't go to

the problem for the solution. And I think I tend to conflate that with I need to be honest and authentic. So sometimes we conflate over sharing with I'm gonna be authentic and I'm gonna set a boundary and I'm gonna tell them how I feel and I'm gonna be honest. That's not always healthy communication. Agreed, we say restrain a pen and tongue, like you like, if you're my problem, I'm not going to come to you and expect you

to have the solution. You know, So I have a problem with my family, I might go to my friends or my program or my you know, Jay Chetty book or whatever it is, or my podcast to get a solution, and then I'll bring that solution to the relationship. And the solution might be to say nothing, yeah, and to have just dealt with to forgive, or to turn it over, or to go for a run or take a nap, or you know, join us twelve step program or something.

Chances are the person you have a conflict can't solve the conflict for you, well said, because that's their issue in the first time. Yeah, you solve the conflict with them, but they're not going to solve it for you. One of my favorite tools in the relationships chapter is something that we had to do a lot as monks, where you're very careful about the words you use because you realize how much power each word has. And so there's a great study by Harvard which you can type in

on Google. It's called the List of emotions, and I often refer to as emotional vocabulary. So all of us have a very limited emotional vocabulary. We literally use five words okay, good, bad, fine, Right, So it's like, how's your weak going, Okay, how's your David good? And so this list of emotions by Harvard goes through each keyword that we say most often and breaks it down into like seven other words that actually define what it means. So when you say you're sad, are you actually offended?

Are you irritated? Are you upset? And it gives you all of these synonyms, but it's helping you diagnose and articulate how you actually feel. So when you do approach someone, you're actually coming from a place of giving them clarity. Because half the time you diagnose yourself wrong. It's like you see a little rash and you try and diagnose yourself on Google and you've got it all yeah, and you get it all wrong. So it's the same thing. So it's so important to use words where you've got

really close to what you actually feel. That's the only way someone can active. And it's not the other person's job to cipher it. It's your job to be clear. It's your job to say it right. It's not their job to be psychic and figure it out. And you're an adult, it's your responsibility to use the right words. And you're in a conflict, and the positive words too, like it's it's defining also like, for example, when someone says I love you, they might mean I want to

spend the night with you. And someone says I love you, and they're like, I want to spend my life with you. Those are two very different. And so when you hear the word love, you're projecting your belief of the definition of the word love onto that person saying it, and you go, I love you too, And you've just have not agreed on the definition of that, correct, And you've just projected your definition on what you said and they said, and you said that it met in your head, yes,

because your word definition was off. And I know that sounds crazy, because when someone says I love You're not gonna be like, well, let's define what you mean. And did a whole bit on I love you and what it means, Oh, I love it. I have to agree on a common definition of love. And I think my definition of love is being willing to die for someone that you yourself want to kill. I think that sort it was, But it's also a lot of times I love you means shut up, like I love you, I

love you, I mean. We use it to manipulate, we use it to tell someone to come down I love you, baby, I love you, Okay, I love you like. We use it a lot, it's thrown around a lot. Yeah, you know you have totally desert if you can find it, good luck. Um. What do you do when you have to make a big decision? Ay, I reflect privately. B. I ask my mentors and guide see, I weigh the pros and cons D I talk to family and friends. I'm really bad at making big decisions. I get very overwhelmed.

But I usually think, if it's not a hell, yes, it's a no. Like it's the answers usually no. For any decision. For me, it's usually no. But it also depends on who. If it's an authority figure I have to tell, I'll sort of get scared that they're going to be mad at me, and I've to sort of worked through that. And then I'll ask mentors and guides, what do you think I should do? I'll outsource the decision to someone that's not because I get too emotional. Interesting,

I go private minds. The first one I reflect privately, Yeah, I need to. Like I found that getting away from noise and everyone's opinions and expectations and messages, because then that starts messing with how I feel, and now what I feel is made up of everyone else's feelings, yes, and I don't like that. And then you've recruited a bunch of people and now they're invested in you executing what their advice correct, and so I don't enjoy that

at all. And so I'm like, I want to take all my own responsibility, but that requires me to get away and make my mind up about something, and then I come back with my version, and then I'll check in with mentors and guys, because sometimes when you ask too many people and they give you their advice, you're like, oh, I don't want to not take their advice. Yeah yeah, and then like I want message him again because I'm

taking their advice. I can like judge me, Guys, I spent an hour of your time and I'm not even taking too And that's my worst nightmare. I was like, No, definitely not that interesting, okay. Last one which best describes your daily routine. A it changes moment to moment. BE it's very focused and organized to see I follow the best opportunity that comes up. D It's simple and scheduled. Oh, I mean you're a D you're a simple and scheduled

that's the healthiest I would say. I'm gonna be honest, I wish it was simple and scheduled, but I do think it changes moment to moment because I'm so easily distracted and I can never figure out how to use drop box, So I spend I think my day's schedule and then I spend half of it trying to download a video. Yeah, and then I'm like I need to fire everyone. Yeah. I think it's it changes moment to moment, and I would like to work on that. Because I'm delusional.

I tell myself it's simple and scheduled, but it's not. Yeah, that's great, so you accept and then you go, okay, this one I want, let's pave away, rather than being like, oh yeah, it simple and scheduled. Like you know, like people tell themselves things to try to convince themselves, Like when people look, I'm not crazy, and you're like, that's literally what a crazy person says to try to prove to themselves that they're not crazy. And you just made

me realize that. I say things about myself like well, I'm just so organized and like I run a tight ship and it's like, I say that, but it's not necessarily true. It's called in Steve Jobs's book, Walter Risingson called it reality distortion field, and so you have the ability to distort reality based on how you want to see it, and so you can get as extreme as when it's said that when Steve Jobs denied having a child, for example, it was referred to as that in the book.

At least, that's how far it can go, where if you want to remove something out of your memory or life, then you just block it out. I do it with money too. Oh. I think we all do that, Like, we all have it to some degree, we all practice it all the time. And I think having people who can catch you on those blind spots, or doing activities and exercises that make you aware of those blind spots as useful. It's like people who are like, I hate drama, and you're like, you love drama. Oh my god, you're

obsessed with drama. You love it. Well. Attachment and a version. In the Bugga Gita, it says the two sides of the same coin. So when you say I love something or I hate something, it's the same level of attachment. So in the sense of like we were always train as monks that like being a monk, and a lot of people get it wrong. And obviously there are female monks too, but a lot of people think, oh, if you're monks, then maybe you just don't want to be

with women or you don't like women. Actually, that cannot be a reason for being a monk. You can't dislike women to be a monk. Like hate or lust are almost two sides of the same coin. Where it's still that you're still completely wrapped up in it because that's still all you think about. Don't forget that because I want to come back to that. But we should finish what Let's see what did I win? What do I win for being? So? I don't know. We need to

count answer key to tell your answers. Now, the most selected letter reflects your runner. Yeah, I think I was a maker. So you can be a guide, a leader, creator, and a maker. Can you just tell me what those

mean real quick? Yeah. So, a guide is someone that is who absolutely loves dealing in thought ideas, thinkers, ideats, people who are always like basically on a very intellectual and mental level, leaders of people who are always considering others, wanting to protect wanting to provide a good president would be a leader. In terms of a personality trait, they have the ability to think beyond themselves. Creators a people

who just want to build grow make great entrepreneurs. Makers are talented people, artists, people who perform, people who also work great with their hands. They may even do arts and crafts. People who are fantastic at invention. So those are very quick versions of what they are, and there's deep ones in the book. Do you love this? I think you should. I think this is something you should do like every like a couple months. Do you know

what I mean? Too? See how you evolve? That's the other thing, because it's like I think I'm big on growing and changing and like changing your mind and changing your opinions. And you know, I think there's this like thing now where people like I'm this type of person. It's like, why would you want to stay that way? You know? Why would you want to get new information and keep your former opinion. It's actually exhausting to try and stay the same because you just constantly like trying

to hold on to something that's trying to change. What are you going to do? What's next? I have to let you go. You have nine one hundred other podcasts today. No, easily easily the hardest person to schedule easy, well, no being like no, no, I don't mean that. I just mean you're you're the man. No, No, A good thing. No, I this was so much fun. First of all, we're friends now. Yeah, I've been looking forward to this because I'm a huge fan and Admira and I watch you

all the time and thank you hilarious. And when I saw that you liked my work, I was like what I was so like when it comes to like like I was, I just never imagined that you would even care what I did, And so then I was just like, oh,

this is so cool. And the way this conversation is going has shown me exactly why, Like, I really love how you went about this, and it excites me so much that I got to share what I do in a way that hopefully connection resonates with everyone you connect and resonate with, and more importantly, that we've built a

relationship through it. So when I saw you were looking at my work and stuff, because I've been listening everyone and your friends with everyone else that I've followed in Love and Ell and I was just like no way like and so anyway, I was very uh, I was very humbled and taking them back when you took an interest in conspired to bring us together, and my all was to be able to maybe do something. This was the most unique interview style and doing that that was genius.

And I'm glad because I literally I don't think I said anything in his interview that said anywhere else. I'm so glad. Yeah, I think, like among anything else, you want to end these very awkwardly perfect don't write elephants, don't write dolphins. Great. Thank you so much for listening to that episode. Make sure you tag me on Instagram when you share it and pass it along to a friend who's a Whitney Cummings fan or a fan of

learning about themselves. Thank you so much for being here again today, and I'll see you again for another episode of On Purpose.