2 Ways to Create Healthy Boundaries & Why You're Wasting Your Time Trying to Change How Someone Thinks of You

Hey everyone, I'm so excited because we're going to be adding a really special offering onto the back of my solo episodes on Fridays. The Daily Jay is a daily series on Calm and it's meant to inspire you while outlining tools and techniques to live a more mindful, stress free life. We dive into a range of topics and the best part is each episode is only seven minutes long, so you can incorporate it into your schedule no matter

how busy you are. As a dedicated part of the on Purpose community, I wanted to do something special for you this year, so I'll be playing a hand picked Daily j during each of my Friday podcasts.

the lives of so many people. And you know, I was intrigued as to what I was going to get when your book turned up, because I thought, well, this guy's videos are incredible and they help us sort of reframe our perspective on life. But I've got it here in front of me, and I left you I think of what's that message a couple of weeks ago, because frankly,

I was so impressed. It's such a wonderful book. It's full of insight, It's full of practical knowledge and wisdom that I think is going to help a wide variety of different people. Now what I'm looking at it in front of me, it's called think like a Monk, Train your mind for peace and purpose every day, And I think that subtitle really grabs my attention because it starts

with train your mind. Now, I think most people in society are familiar with the concept that we can train our bodies right, so we know if we want to get stronger, we can go to the gym, we can lift weight, we want to get faster, build endurance, we can go running. But I'm not sure that people commonly think that their minds can be trained. I wonder if you would agree with that, and I wonder if you could expand as to why you think all of us have the ability to train our minds wrong.

grew up, there was no class for the mind. Even when we learned about biology, it was very much about cells and plants. And I feel as humans, we've developed such a fascination for the outer world, but we haven't developed so much of a focus on our inner space. And I think there's such a need there in what you're encouraging us to do as well, and what the book's trying to help people do is recognize that each and every single one of us need to and can

train our mind. So one of my favorite examples is, if you wanted to learn how to play basketball, you'd probably want to learn from Michael Jordan, someone who's dedicated their life to the craft. If you wanted to learn how to drive a Formula one car, you go to Lewis Hamilton, because I mean, he's undisputed the best in

the world of all time. If you wanted to learn how to play tennis, you'd probably go to Federer or Nadal or Djokovic, right, there's so many great players and names and athletes, or maybe you go to Serena Williams. If you wanted to learn about business, you'd go to the founder of Bumble. There are so many incredible entrepreneurs athletes in the world who are experts in what they do.

But when you think about it and you say, well, I want to learn about the mind, and not just learn about the mind, but work with people who focused on mastering the mind, the true answer is that that's monks. Monks have dedicated their life to mastering the mind, to the point that studies on monk's brains show the highest form of gamma waves, which are linked to happiness, attention focus. When they scan monk's brains, they find the ability to flip focus from one thing to another like the flip

of a switch. Now, most of us can experience that we don't have that ability, and so when we go to learn from monks, we realize through my journey, through other people's journey who have learned these principles and practices, that this is up for anyone and everyone, whether they live in a small village in the countryside or whether they live in a big city. Anyone can think like a monk.

I say to you. I'd say that we will continue to create the life that we currently have with the current set of thoughts, wisdom, beliefs and ideas that we have. And if we're happy on that part, if you could fast forward your life in ten twenty thirty years time and you'd be satisfied with getting the life that you

have right now, then that's great. But if, like the majority of people that I know and that I speak to and that I connect with online, the majority of us would look and go, no, I really want to change life. I want to be with my kids, but I want to change how I am with them. I want to be at work, but I want to be more preyer at work. I want to improve the quality of my life. Then I'd say that it's so important that we learn and open up our minds to alternative thoughts.

I'll give you an example. There was this great study that MIT did on people's minds, openness, and their ability to be creative and innovative. And they looked at two types of people. One person was surrounded by people who all knew the same people, right, kind of like our normal lives, and the other person was surrounded by lots

of people who didn't know each other. And they did the study around who is more creative, more innovative, and has a bigger impact in the workplace, in their professional life, and then a little bit into their personal life as well. And what they found was that those people who knew people who knew each other who knew them back, lived in what was known as echo chambers. They were rarely exposed to ideas that improved their way of living or

their professional performance. But people who are exposed to ideas that had no connection with other people in their life were able to be more creative, have better ideas, have more purpose, have more meaning in life. So often we've become closed in our little spaces around what we hear, what we know about, and we're not exposed to this new sense of ideas. And that's what I would encourage is just approach it with a tiny bit of curiosity. That's all you need.

different state of life. Because I think there's a lot of universal themes there and I really want to explore and talk about some practical things throughout this conversation, Jay, But you know, I'm interested that many people have a crisis in their life from time to time. It might be a I don't know, midlife crisis, it's a quarter life crisis. And you know, they may go away for a weekend, they may go and buy a new car.

But you had a form of crisis and you went off to be a monk in India, right, So I'd love to understand what happened there, you know what led you to that, because I think a lot of people I wouldn't say it. It's extreme, but it's going all in right, and it's fantastic because I don't think until I met you, I don't think I've ever met a monk before. So you know, maybe you could expand on what happened there.

of these. Now, my journey was definitely from a place of curiosity, and it started off not with a sense of pain or stress or pressure in my personal life because I was fairly young at the time, and of course I'd been exposed to the different things you do growing up in a family and normal challenges growing up. But really, what it was for me is I was surrounded by a lot of friends that were older than me, and my friends were sometimes two years older, some of

them were five years older. Some of them were getting married, some of them had great jobs, some of them were making good money. And it's really interesting that they were really honest with me, and they would open up and say to me, Jay, you know what, I've got this perfect partner, I've got this perfect job, I've got this perfect situation, but I'm still not happy. And I'd be sitting there as a young teenager, going how can you

not be happy? I mean, you know, you've got a beautiful partner, you're making good money, you drive a nice car, you have a nice home. How is it that you're not satisfied? And it was so interesting to me to be exposed to a group of people that I thought had it all but felt like they didn't have anything. And then when I was invited to hear a monk's speak, and I was fascinated at the time by hearing CEOs, entrepreneurs, athletes. My two first books that I ever read were David

Beckham's autobiography and Dwayne the Rock johnson autobiography. When he was still in the WWF and the WWE, and I was fascinated by rags to riches stories and people who went from nothing to something. And then I was invited to hear a monk speak, and I genuinely had this complete dismissive demeanor about what monks could teach me. And my approach was, well, what am I going to learn from a monk? How to sit still? What is a monk even achieved? And so when I went to hear

this monk speak, I went there with no expectations. But the amazing thing is that I found that someone who had nothing actually had everything. He had contentment, he had satisfaction, he exuded it, and when he spoke, he spoke with such compassion and empathy. And I thought, I've never heard any of my friends speak like this. I've never experienced someone have this. And now, when I reflect back, I realized very clearly that when I was eighteen, I'd met

people who are rich. I'd met people who are beautiful and stunning and attractive. I'd met people who were famous and successful. I'd met people who are really smart and intellectual, But I don't think i'd ever met anyone who is truly happy and even if you reflect in your own life, anyone who's listening or watching right now, just think about it for a moment. Who in your life would you genuinely say you believe is content and happy and joyful.

I'm guessing you probably count them on your hand. And for me, that Monk was the first person that I met that really exuded that, and I wanted to learn more. So for me, it wasn't about being in a major life crisis. It wasn't about things not working out. It was from the perspective of learning through the challenges of my friends, who were thankfully so honest with me, that helped me question what I thought life was all about.

the UK. You know, you know the certain pressures and the certain expectations that often come with that. And you know, if I'm honest, I've often reflected back on this, and I say it to people, you know, because being a doctor is deemed and you know, by society as a successful career choice. But I say to people, you know, what, are you so lucky? You say this? And I am lucky,

But really I was influenced by my childhood. I was influenced by my upbringing because all my parents' friends were doctors. So all the adults I knew pretty much growing up apart from my school teachers, were doctors. So therefore it was an you know, for me, it was a natural progression to then become a doctor. But I will tell you this, as I become more in tune with what makes people happy, with what makes me happy. Honestly, if I look around in the medical profession, I see a

lot of unhappy people. I see a lot of people doing what they thought they should do, what society has told them is going to make them happy, what their parents had told them is going to make them happy, and they're doing it. And they may be making reasonable money. And as you say, have the house and have the car, but often underneath that that's a feeling of discontentments. And you know, I've been realizing this in my probably thirties, late thirties. But you, I guess, would you in some

ways to experience it. I think you're in your teens, right. I was eighteen years old when I first had that interaction. I just explained, yeah, because I mean, I wonder if you sort of think back, and that is clearly a significant fork in the road for you, because had do you ever think back what would have happened had I not gone to that talk.

the best decision and I'm such an amazing person. I look back and go wow, I was so so arrogant and did not realize how much I could learn from this individual. And it's almost like this ironic moment. But

I think about it all the time. I think, if I didn't go that day, or I didn't meet monks, or I didn't meet people who were trying to live on a higher frequency or a high vibration, I believe that I would have ended up chasing all the normal things that I was chasing in terms of stability security. I probably would have had a comfortable job and done just okay, and you know, life would have been fine.

But I really feel that the life I get to live today, which is a life of service and purpose and meaning, is what I would have missed out on. And there are so many times in my life where I wonder what life would have been like, and I'm just grateful that I met the right people at the right time. And this is really what this book is about. That the reason why I called it Think like a Monk, and the reason why I've gone into the depth around the wisdom and the practices that I have is we

don't realize how much we're not experiencing in life. Like you said, we all grew up in this bubble. Like if you grew up in where I grew up, North London, it's a very specific bubble. And then if you grew up in England, it's a very specific bubble. And then you grew up in the United States and New York at LA it's a bubble. And we live in these bubbles. And the challenge with the bubble is that you never really understand if there's something out there that could change

your experience of life. And for me, it's so random to have met a monk at eighteen. Like you said, you've never you know, experienced or met a monk before. And I'm not a monk anymore, so you still haven't met a monk. We have to find wrung in someone for you and me. But you know, it's that point of just what is it in the world that we haven't experienced that could expand our mind and take us

on a different journey. And I think that's the goal is you may not need a monk in your life, but who or what or which idea or is it in your life that you haven't yet let in?

their narrative. And I think, really what I'm hearing from you is staying curious, staying open minded, looking listening to other people's ideas. It's like you said at the start, right, You're not trying to persuade anyone's to do anything, but if you're a bit curious, maybe there's an idea that someone's going to hear throughout this conversation that just sparks something for them, very much like I guess you had

when you were eighteen. Uh Jay. I think one of the first times I came across you was a few years back. I heard you on an interview, so I can't remember what the interview was, but I remember being really impacted by what you said and think of who is this guy? I mean, this is pretty incredible what I heard and it was It wasn't one of your videos that you were talking a lot about. I think identity, and I think it was something about it really got

me thinking about what is my identity? I guess I was on a journey then anyway, since I lost my father about what's seven years ago now, I think that was the one of the significant moments in my life that got me to start questioning everything, thinking about, well, who am I? You know, am I living my life or am I living somebody else's life? I think you expressed it so beautifully. But then when I read your book, I think you start off very early on with identity.

So I wonder if you could expand on identity? What is it? And why do you think many of us need to spend a bit of time thinking about it?

improve people's health and well being overall. I remember you talking about encouraging your clients to see more friends as a way of changing the way they feel, and I was thinking, Wow, this person's got so many great ideas. And the reason is because Rung and you also have that monk mindset, or you go to the root of the issue. It's really easy to just say, oh, well, just take two of these a day, or try this,

or you know, maybe you need to do this. But when you think about it from the rout perspective, where do our challenges arise? And our challenge is arise by how we see ourselves? And what I believe wrong is referring to is there's this quote that I begin my book with and that I've shared in interviews for the last few years, and it's from a writer named Charles

Horton Cooley who wrote this in the nineteen hundreds. And what he said is that, sorry, I think it's in the eighteen hundreds, at the end of the eighteen hundreds towards the nineteen hundreds, and he said, and bear with me and you've got to really listen closely to this. So what he said that the challenge today is I'm not what I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am. Now just let that blow your mind for a moment. I will explain it. I promise, I'm not

what I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am, which means we live in a perception of a perception of ourselves. So I'll break it down. If I think Rongan thinks I'm smart, I'll say I feel smart. But if I think Rangan thinks I'm not smart, then I'll say I'm not smart. And so the challenge is that we're basing how we feel about ourselves on what we

think someone thinks of us. And the greatest challenge with that is how do you have any idea if what you think someone thinks about you is even true and whether that's even the best place to start. So that's where our identity struggles. We start pursuing things in life because we think other people value them. It's almost like,

let's think of the most playground version of this. If I remember wearing high tech shoes from BHS to the playground, right, I remember my mom Because my parents didn't buy me Nike trainers or Adidask trainers, which I always wanted. You know, we didn't come from that background. I can afford them, and my parents didn't want me to have them. So I'd walk in with my high tech trainers from BHS. They're about ten quid or whatever they were, and you know,

to me, it didn't make a difference. I didn't really know at that time whether high tech was good or bad. They were just trainers that my parents bought me. Now everyone the cool kid at school had the latest night trainers. All of a sudden, I start thinking that he's now surrounded by everyone. Everyone's talking about his trainers. Everyone's giving him adoration, everyone's giving him respect, everyone's talking about his trainers.

So now I think that if I want to have that same experience and love from people, that I need to get that not realizing that I may be able to get deeper love from people by being kind and compassionate, that I may actually be able to build a real relationship with people. If I'm loving and considerate and empathetic and It's so crazy how your life can become about pursuing something. And that's why Jim Carrey puts it best,

and I'm paraphrasing. He says, you know, everyone in the world should achieve everything they've ever wanted and accomplish everything they've ever pursued, just to realize that. It's the point. Now, that doesn't mean the Monk mindset is not about not pursuing your goals. It's actually about pursuing your truest goals, your truest self, and your most authentic aligned goals. So it's not about not having goals, it's about making sure that your goal directually yours.

the first part. Second part, what's that third part, and I really had to sit with it for a while, and I would urge people if they need to press pause right now, listen to it and really think about it. And I think, you know, it's really interesting, you know, hearing that, and I reflect on my children, who I know you had a very brief, lovely conversation with just before we started. I might put that in at the end of the podcast.

He was you know, he was talking about a BMW and he basically said to the guy in his and you know, in his inimitable way, which is wonderful, that I think you own a BMW because of what other people will think of you. When you drive that BMW and the guy literally you know in that clip, he just sort of sat with it and he said, yeah, I do. I mean it's what it's symbolized is to people around him. And again I'm not having to go

at anyone who might be doing that. You know, we all do things at times to get that validation or what we think is a validation from people around them. But I think what you're trying to get at is how do we find our own identity? How do we live our own lives? So, Jay, how do we do that if we've spent a lifetime living someone else's life, how do we in our thirties or our twenties, or our forties or our fifties, how do we just decide, Oh, I'm going to start finding out what my life is.

it figured out. Like I don't want to make this about you not getting your goals or not having pursuits or not wanting to become something, because I want to do all those things too, but it's about why you're doing it, and it's also about making sure they're truly motivated by your inner desire, right, Like, that's the point. It's like, if you want to drive a BMW, drive a BMW because that's the car you love. Don't drive

it because you think. If you want to be a doctor, become a doctor because you think that's how you're going to serve humanity, not because you think people will be impressed. If you want to go to Harvard or Princeton or Oxford or Cambridge, go there because you really want to study how to solve the world's problems, not because you think it looks good on your resume. Right, that's the point that we're going after. So thank you Rong for like recentering that tonal piece, and I appreciate it. But

so where do we start. One of my favorite ways to start is looking at what we value you and values are a very intangible word, and so there's a very easy way to figure out what you value. There's two things you have to look at. You look at how you spend your money. The most painful thing you can possibly do, go through your bank statement and look at where your money is being spent. That is what you value. The other thing that we spend, just like

we spend money, is how we spend our time. Those are the two most perfect ways to see what you currently value. Your value isn't what's in your head, isn't what's in your heart, isn't what's in your mind. It's how you spend your money and how you spend your time.

And so just to give you an overview, and I share this in the book, that research was done on how we spend our time, and the research showed that we spend thirty three years in bed, right, thirty three years of our life in bed, and seven years of that is spent trying to sleep, not even sleeping. Right. We spend one year and four months ex sizing across

our whole lives. These are by the way, we spend more than three years on vacation, and we spend a bunch of days trying to get ready, and we spend a bunch of time, you know, standing in lines and cues, and so much of our time just get spent. So the question we have to ask ourselves is where am I currently spending my time? And where do I want to spend it now. Studies also show that people everyone has to go to work, So this isn't about what

you do for work. People who had more meaningful, purposeful lives and were healthier, wealthier, and wise invested their time in education over entertainment and wrong. And your your audience is lucky because they get education and entertainment in one place. But that's the goal, right, Like, that's the goal that

you're creating an opportunity for people to find education. The smartest, the wealthiest, the most healthiest, the wisest people in the world reading books, watching documentaries, taking courses, is listening to podcasts, learning to better themselves. And so that's the first place to start. The second place when we look at that value audit is I want you to write down three things that you're currently pursuing in life. It might be a promotion, it might be a new home, whatever it is,

whatever it is that you are currently pursuing. And then I want you to ask this question, is that your desire and your dream or is it coming from something outside of you? Is it coming from a pressure of a family member, Is it coming from an expectation because your friend just bought something where is that desire truly coming from? And the third and final question you want to ask yourself is do I still want to pursue that, or do I want to change how I pursue it?

Or do I not want to pursue it at all? And if you go through that three step questioning process, you'll get to the truth of what you truly want to pursue and stop yourselves from building a sand castle with the waves of time will eventually wash away. And so that's what we get lost doing. We get lost building castles that we don't even want to live in.

But again, it's these two guys in their thirties who you know, they've got success by society's definition. They've got the job, they're any good money, you know, but there's a hole inside, there's a feeling of is this all there is to life? And so I really think you're tapping on something that is that is really out there at the moment. If people can get their heads around this, I think it can transform their own lives, but also transform the lives of the people around them, which I

think is really really exciting. Now you call it a value audit, and I thought that word was really interesting because I have been sort of I had sort of nearly three weeks off social media until two days ago. Like I didn't post, I went off. I made a thing of it, and I found that I found it a lot easier to go inward in my life. It was just one thing to switch off a bit of noise for me. That I'm not saying everyone has to do this. It's just something I personally find useful and

I also like to. I think it's a nice example to set to people that you can do it if you want to. But what was really interesting is I've been doing a values exercise with myself. I've been trying to write down five core values that I want to live my life by and it really struck me that a lot of people, and it probably include myself this have got an idea of what we think our values are.

But unless we actually go and audit the process of what are we spending our time and money doing, we have no idea if we really are living those values. So I really like the term audit because it's not your perception of how you think you're actually spending your money spending your time. It's the reality of it. And I think it's something that I haven't done it, and I think I think I'm going to do it. I think I'm gonna actually see is it aligned with what

you say you stand for? Are you actually spending time like that? So is this a common thing? Do you think for people that they have that there is a gap between their desired values and their actual values.

needs to be converted and transferred into real behavior. And this is where you'll find you know, you'll hear a friend or someone you know say, oh, you know, I really value loyalty and I really don't like gossip, and then you find out that that person was gossiping about you. And how does that feel? It completely feels like someone's broken your trust. And so often the way we see ourselves or want to see ourselves is amplified compared to

how we actually behave. So we'll spot something. And there's a beautiful story that I share in the book, and there's lots of these across the book, but there's these there's these old ancient Indian and Zen stories. And there's this story of the evil king that goes to meet a good king. So the evil king goes to the castle the quarters of the good king, and the good king, being a good king, invites the evil king in for some dinner. They sit down, These servers bring out the plates.

The plates are placed in front of the evil king and the good king, and they're just about to eat. And it's just about as they're about to eat, the evil king switches the plates, and the good King goes what's going on? Like is that some ceremony in your time? Like why are we doing this? And the evil King goes, well, I don't know. You might have poisoned my food. You might be trying to kill me. You might have poisoned it.

And the good King just bursts out laughing. It's just like really, like come on, this is like I've invited you for dinner, like this is my team, like you know whatever. It is, like, let's start eating right now. And just about he's about to eat, the evil King swaps it back again and the good King goes, well, now what then, and he goes, well, I don't know, you might be double bluffing me. And that night, the evil King doesn't eat the Good King happily eats his plate.

The point is that so often we think we don't have some of the mistakes that we make, but we see them in everyone else. We see those mistakes in other people, so we'll say, oh, this person's not doing this right, or I don't like the way he or she talked to that person. But if we really do an audit in ourselves, we'll realize that we have a lot of those same challenges and feelings that we may think others have. And so for me it's sometimes a really scary and daunting task to do that values audit.

But it truly, truly is a beautiful process that we all need to go through to really realign our map and get our compass right and start moving in the right direction.

to others and help other people. Or if you don't garden once a month, let's say rungen leaves is he doesn't bother for the last six months during COVID, he just lets it be there. What's going to happen That garden's going to be full of weeds, It's going to be full of stuff that he doesn't want there. Right, it might attract bugs or other things that are there

that he doesn't want. And that's what happens with our values, that after a while, our values start to attract dust, they start to attract being covered over by so many other desires. So i'ld say it's a regular habit. I'd say that I do a refining values and intention exercise on myself about three times a week. I used to do it every day, but probably about three times a week. And I'm not saying anyone has to do it that often.

I do it that often because I feel I live a life that is constantly moving, constantly challenging, and I'm presented with a lot of options and opportunities that I never imagined i'd have, and so I have to really train my mind to focus on these value audits. But I also know that every year I spend two or three year, two or three weeks and I go back to the monastery in India and I spend time in the ashroom with months, and so I feel this is both an activity that happens weekly or monthly. I'd say

once a month. I'd say the best way is to treat it like your accounts and your taxes. Look at it every month, look at your bankstam in every month, and then once a year, when you have to do your taxes and you're going through that tax return and getting it all right, you kind of do a deep

dive on it. So I'd say if everyone could spend three days a year, five days a year going really deep, and then one hour a month, a couple of hours a month, that would be a great way to build it into your practice.

But I would actually say that they're fun. And if I just speak to my own experience over the last seven years of really against it's my dad. I diving into personal growth. Not because it was like, oh Dad's not here and now I'm going to do some personal growth. No, it was just in the trauma of Dad's death, in the sort of emptiness I fil afterwards, that's where I went. I would I sort of needed that pain on one

level to then get me to start asking questions. But I love the process of getting to know myself better. I love doing these audits. I loved to figure out my values. I like potentially almost getting addicted to it, like it feels good. And then you start to I feel you start to switch off from the noise around you, and you really start up come tuned in to who you are and what makes you, what makes you tick.

I make sure? So what you find is the first day you realize, oh, no, I complain ten times today. The second day you're like, oh, I only did seven times today, and the third day you're like, I only did four. In the fourth day you're like, oh, only once. And then on the weekend you binge complain again and it all goes up again. But the point is that you make it fun and enjoyable because what you understand is that you are not your criticism. You are not

these negative thoughts, You are not these negative beliefs. They've just become conditioned and habits, just as your garden is not weeds. And what happens is we start thinking that we are our pain. We start thinking that we are stress.

unhealthy habits. And I think when you start making that disconnect between you and the habits you have, you start to realize, oh, if I change the habits, I naturally change. But you are separate from that. So never get into that, Never get into that rhetoric with yourself of I am a negative person, or I am a failure, or I am a loser, or whatever it may be.

my children. It's something we talk about a lot at the dinner table about how we're saying things because words are powerful, you know, words become the thoughts, right, and that they sort of can you know you mentioned those things. People often do think that they are their pain, they are their feelings, without realizing that these things are transient. They come and go, and you are actually separate from that. But if you define yourself by that, it becomes very

hard to change. You know, you mentioned you know, I guess a lot of words that people who have a victim mindset may say, right, And I want to explore this because I want to be super clear. I think one thing I love about your approach, and certainly the approach that I sort of try and take is one of compassion. It's not one of judgment of other people. It's understanding someone behaves in a certain way. There's probably

conditioning or reasons that has led to that. So what I say victim mindset, I really don't mean that in a demeaning way. I mean that in a lot of people say, oh this always happens to me. Oh god, you know, I'd never get that promotion right. And so the way we think and the way we talk, how influential is our childhoods? And you know, what can we do about it? If we've spent a lifetime practicing that.

very limited emotional vocabulary. For example, if you ask someone how things are going, there's literally five words that we use more often than anything else. Okay, good, bad, fine, hmmm. So someone goes, how's your day going? Okay, how's your week been?

feel all like you've been let down? The challenge is that we don't diagnose how we feel effectively. Therefore we can't articulate and communicate to the people we love effectively about how we feel, and therefore we don't get what we expect from others, and so we almost create and rung. And you probably see this all the time. Imagine someone tries to diagnose their health condition without seeing a doctor.

It becomes really really challenging. And the challenging with the mind is sometimes you have to diagnose your own feelings because you can't just walk in to a doctor's office and expect them to do it because it's a little more intangible. So we have to get much better at understanding and articulating ourselves and diagnosing our challenges in what

we experience. But when you spoke about childhood there, I thought that was a really important point because literally, there are so many studies that show that our belief in ourselves, our desire for love, our understanding of ourselves is formed

in our childhood. So recently I recorded an episode about the psychological concept of the three attachment styles or there are four, but the three prominent attachment styles that people experience in relationships and they are avoidant, secure, and anxious. So all of us either have an avoidant relationship attachment style, we have a secure attachment style, or we have an

anxious attachment style, and I'll explain what they are. If your parents were avoidant of you, if they didn't give you attention, if they didn't give you presence and intimacy, then you often will crave that from your partner. So what you want from your partner is exactly what you did or didn't receive from your parents. So sometimes you receive something from your parents and now you demand it from your partner. And sometimes you didn't receive something from

your parents and you demand that from your partner. The secure attachment style is when your parents or one of your parents or a father or mother figure in your life gave you substantial amounts of love, so you feel secure, so you trust your partner naturally. And the third and final it is anxious. That's when your parents were kind of there, kind of not there, kind of let you down.

Sometimes with there you are confused about their love approach to you, and therefore now you have this anxiousness around your partner and you're not sure whether they love you or not. Now, notice how all of that comes from our conditioning at childhood, and so the first step we have to do is we have to be aware of this. Right, no one's ever been taught about this in school. I saw so many negative patterns that I'd adopted from my

childhood that I was projecting into my relationship. And by the way, I don't blame my parents or anyone's parents for any of this. I think the point is no one ever knows how to be a parent and what they're doing, and everyone makes mistakes. So this isn't about questioning your parents or being bitter towards them. It's about developing the emotional skills your parents didn't have, and that

first of all requires awareness. Are you even aware of what patterns you've adopted from your parents that you like or don't like? Do you behave in certain irrational ways and when you think about it, you're like, that's exactly how my dad used to talk to me. Well, that's exactly how my mom used to talk to me. I often talk about a positive thing. So I love surprises. I love surprises like from forgives and birthdays and events.

And the reason is my mom always surprised me with the toy I most wanted on my birthday every year growing up. So when I met my wife without explaining this to her, I expected her to know that and she would never surprise me because it wasn't in her parental background. So I used to feel on my birthdays when we first met that she didn't love me. And I know this sounds crazy, but it's literally true. It's like I literally felt like she didn't care about me.

But that's because I never understood why I like surprises where that came from, and I never communicated that to her. Does that make sense wrong?

certain way, so we think that's the norm. But of course someone else has got their own idea of what is normal. And you know, we we've we've explored this ourselves. And I think as your communication gets better, as you learn, as you said, to have a vocabulary around these things, as you learned to be able to articulate them, suddenly there's understanding on both sides and a lot of that friction

no longer arises because you can communicate. So and I guess now your wife will go, oh, you know, Jay likes gifts, you know, even though that's not my thing. For example, it's kind of like, oh, maybe I'll get a good because that's how he experienced his love.

of pain you'll accept. But the problem is that we never tell the other person what that expectation and what that acceptance level is and we never communicate that and we expect them to be minded doesn't expect them to know.

And that's really where all relationships go wrong with our parents, our children, our spouses, our partners, that there is no communication on what we expect and what we're willing to accept, and that creates so many issues that you then think you broke up over something big, when actually you broke up over words and definitions. One of the ones I

like to talk about is the definition of love. When think about the first time you said I love you to someone wronging like, think about the first time you said it to someone and everyone who is listening on watching. Think about the first time you told someone you loved them? What did you mean? Did you mean I really like you? Did you mean I hope we can spend the night together. Did you mean I want to spend the rest of my life with you. I'm guessing that you meant different

things at different times. And now, think about when someone says I love you back to you. Have you ever asked them what they meant by that, because chances are you projected your belief onto the word love. Even when someone said I love you back So if you said I love you, and you were thinking, I want to spend the rest of my life with you, and that person said I love you, you projected that they were saying they want to spend the rest of their lives

with you as well. But actually what they were saying was they just want to spend the night with you. And now all of a sudden, you're in this complete misalignment of values, and we end up in those scenarios because families define words differently, People define words differently, and different words mean different things to different people at different times, and so you really have to understand how that person described even being clean and tidy and organized, everyone has

a different definition like this. You know, my room may seem clean to some people and my room may seem chaotic to some people because everyone has a different definition of what clean and chaotic is.

that's how you've been brought up. I wasn't brought up like that, right, I had a completely different upbringing. So my idea of what is normal is completely different from yours. And if we both go through life in our own heads thinking this is normal, well, of course there's going to be blow up, some friction because they are. They both are normal, but they're different normals to different people.

You know, you, as you sort of talk about relationship, you reminded me of a moment in your book where you spoke about your relationship with your now wife when you first started dating her, and I think you took her out too. I think you saved up. Well you can, you can share that actually what happens. And I'll tell you the reason why it made me stop and laugh is because it reminded me. Although there were different scenarios.

I remember when I first met my now wife, when I when I went out, you know, when I was just dating her for a few months. I remember, like so, I'd played in bands for a few years and at the time one of my so the way EPs was being sold in HMV in Manchester and had a couple of shows and I think when we first started dacing she came along. And then I can't remember when, but a few weeks or a few months into it, I said, you know, hey, babe, I've got the show tonight. Do

you want to you know, your fancy come along? And so no, I'm good. Thanks. I was like, oh, no, you sure, you sure you don't want to coach, Like, yeah, I'm all right. Actually there's something I'll tell you I want to watch tonight. It was something something which was you know, for my ego at that time, back in the day. I was like, oh, why does she want to come? You know, does she not like me? You

know what? What? You know? It was really interesting. But I think that drew me more towards her because I thought I've never had that before, like that was. I think that made me more attracted to her as like, oh, she's not bothered about that stuff. And I actually genuinely do would say, now, that's one of the best things about her, that kind of stuff she does not give

to who. She likes me and loves me for who I am underneath and not for the kind of you know, not because you know, I'm on Telly or I've you know, whatever with these books or whatever. You know, she's not bothered about that sort at all. And it's the best thing ever.

get really challenging. You reminded me of an interview that I think I've referred to even in the book of Robert Downey Jr. And I think he's at Cambridge University and they're doing A and A with him and they're like, you know, what does it feel like to be Iron Man and you know, be this incredible movie star and the Avengers? And he's like, yeah, you know, when I come home and I open the door back from work, it's not like my fifth kids and my family are like,

oh my god, it's Iron Man. You know. He's just like my wife's like, can you can you take the trash out? And you know, my ear and it's almost like that reality check and and yeah for my wife in similar what you were saying, you know, for us, it was this understanding that I had believed that the romance that I saw in the movies was what romance and love was about. Because again, how many of us are Our beliefs are set by movies, media, and music. So many of our beliefs and what we expect in

a relationship are based on a false show. And if you think about it, movies always end with Happily ever After, where the wedding just happened, So it's almost like you see nothing after the wedding. And the funny thing is that after the is exactly what life is about. Like that's where life actually starts, like this life didn't start when you started dating. But movies end with happily ever after, and they don't tell the story, and so we all

have this honeymoon happily ever after version of love. And I had that too. So my first date with my wife, I thought, oh, you know, she want to go to a fancy restaurant. You know, she'll probably want to dress up, she'll want to do this, because that's what I thought from nowhere, like she'd give me no indication of that, and so again, no checking of expectation, no checking of communication,

just complete me on autopilot, and so I booked. I got this reservation at this fancy restaurant I'll never forget the name. It's called Lacanda Locatelli, and it's like this really posh restaurant in London. It's like David Beckham goes there and that kind of thing. And so I'd saved up to take my wife to this restaurant and she it was the worst date we've ever been on, and it was our first date. And she was just like, you could have walked me down Tesco's, like the food

isle at Tesco's, and I would have been happier. She loves she loves she loves going shopping for food. So any sort of Tescos or Whole Foods or Waitrose or whatever that she loves it. And so and it was so interesting to me to think. I was like, well, I put all this effort in, and that's what happened. You start thinking your ego goes well, you put all this effort in, she doesn't appreciate it, and actually realize no, it's just you know, me speaking to her in a

language she doesn't understand. And this part's the biggest part about how media and I've got to share this story so wrong. And do you remember how much? Do you remember any guidance on how much you spent on your engagement ring? Because this is really like profound for me, But do you remember anything when you proposed to your wife? What?

then when I started sharing more ideas and stuff. I really started looking into that, and this is the craziest thing. I found a de Beer's commercial from nineteen ninety one. And in that commercial, it's a black and white commercial. I don't know why, but it was chosen to be black and white. And in that commercial, a man proposes to a woman with a diamond engagement ring. It's a de Beer's commercial, and at the end of it it says, this cat's this. This is what it says. It says

the diamond engagement ring. How else could two months salary last for wherever? And I was sitting there going are you kidding me? That? That was literally the tagline in a commercial, and so many men took it seriously that by the time I proposed that was nineteen ninety one.

I proposed in two thousand and fourteen, And so it's like, from nineteen ninety one to twenty fourteen it became a rule, when actually it was just a tagline and an advert, just showing you the power of media's ability to implant. And really that's inception at its best. If you've never seen the movie Inception, check it out. But that is

literally inception at its best. That that idea was planted in our mind in nineteen ninety one, and in two thousand and fourteen, I'm still operating by that idea and I don't even know where it's come from. That's the power of an idea, and that's why it's so important that we plant powerful ideas into our mind that are useful to us.

everything you're talking about. This about identity, it's about stories. It's about how can we start creating the stories that are going to start to help us, you know, going to nourish us and feed us, rather than the ones that are going to keep us trapped and in prison. And I think there's two things I think your book really like when I think about it big picture, what it offers. I mean, there's so many things, but there are two themes I already think about our one. Awareness.

I think every single chapter people are going to start thinking, and there's just start going to Because you shared so many lovely stories as well in it, which I think really brings it to life. People are going to start to see their own life in them. And I think you're going to help bring awareness to people. And of course, without awareness, there can be no change. Awareness is that

first step, and often awareness is all you need. I find sometimes, and of course there are lots of practices you can do to help, but sometimes just being aware means, oh, I can change that now because I know where that's coming from. But the other thing I think your book offers people is freedom, because you get true in a piece and mental freedom to live the life that you want to, not the life that other people have set out for you or an advertising exec has sort of

implanted as an idea. And then you know, if we sort of start to go in some of these practical tools you mentioned some exercises already. You mentioned gratitude, and gratitude has come up on the show before. But what I loved about your take on it was if I remember the chatter it right that you said gratitude is a daily practice. That's the easy part. I want you to be grateful in every aspects of your life and I love that. And I've been sitting with the idea

for the last week or so. What if you could expand on it, Jay.

I think that's so important because there's a there's a great study there talking about the book by Amy Reznowski from the Yale University, and what they found is that they tried to find a career that they felt people may find not sharing a positive story around, and they found that hospital cleaners or hospital workers potentially at one of the toughest jobs and rung and you're a doctor, and you know, I'm sure you've seen people having to

do that work, and it's a tough job. And so they asked hospital workers how they defined their jobs, and the majority of them defined it as low skilled, defined it as you know, insignificant, defined it as just a way to pay the bills, and that their job wasn't useful or their job wasn't important, and their role was

basically described like the personnel manual. But then they asked another set of hospital workers, the same people who did the same jobs, different people who did the same jobs, and they said, how do you feel about your jobs? And these people had completely different views. They felt they were healers, they felt they were caretakers, They felt that they were able to transform the energy of the actual hospital. They felt that they were careers for the people there.

And what they found is that these same people, sorry, different people who did the same job, were telling themselves a different story. And therefore they saw their role as integral to the healing of the patient. And because they saw their role as integral to the healing of the patient. They found the work that they did to be extremely meaningful. And that's crazy to think about it that different people doing the same job could say different things about the

same work. They're doing the same exact thing daily, but someone thinks it's meaningless, and the other things it's so meaningful. And this was a term by Yale that was called the It was called job crafting. The ability to assign meaning where you see it, and all of a sudden,

your life becomes meaningful. So if you're sitting in a job right now that you hate, or if you've got a boss that you really don't like, or if you're in a relationship that you don't want to be in, if you can't leave for whatever reason right now because of COVID or lockdown or whatever it is financial difficulties. If you can't leave and you really want to, one of the things I recommend you do is called job crafting from the Yel School of Management. Do you start

asking yourself, where can I find meaning in this? What can I learn? What can I adopt? What is this trying to teach me? And that's actually where gratitude can be applied to every place, because you start going. There is some value in this. I remember when I wanted to leave my corporate job and I wanted to live my passion and do what I do today. But I'm so grateful I was at my corporate job because I learned so much there that it's so useful to me now.

And we find it very easy to be grateful when things are going our way, but we find it very difficult to be grateful when things are not going our way. But what we have to learn to realize, which is a really hard lesson to realize, is that things are always going your way. If you're moving in the right direction, things are not going to always look like they're going your way, and they could still be going your way. We've all seen curses turn into gifts, and gifts turn

into curses. The the problem is wrong and this is the challenge. We have a projector up here of what we want life to look like, and then we have the reality of what life actually looks like. So there's this big discrepancy. And so sometimes you're actually going in the right direction, but because it doesn't look like your picture and your image of what it should look like, you work less. You become lazier, you become complacent, you

try less harder. But this doesn't look like the right direction. But you'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined it if you keep going, if you keep pushing, if you keep learning. And that's what it means to be grateful in all areas of your life is trying to even in the toughest moment, even in a challenging situation. Not gratitude like, oh, I'm so thankful to you for causing me the pain. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is

saying to yourself, where is their meaning in this? Where is the lesson in this? So I don't repeat this again. If I can be grateful in this challenging situation, and I can experience gratitude at all times, then I'm always going to be coming at things from a positive space and positive energy.

And so Rungon's absolutely right that it starts in small bouts. So I want to get more practical because me and Ken about a lot of concepts today when we talk about practicing thankfulness or gratitude, and I talk about four habits in the book, one of them, one of the key daily habits or daily practices is thankfulness. Now, thankfulness isn't just about feeling. Thankfulness isn't just about thinking. It's

actually about expressing. So when Rongan messaged me a few weeks back and he told me that he'd been reading my book. I sent him an early copy because he was going to interview on the podcast, and he sent me that message. I was so grateful to him, like genuinely, because he was expressing gratitude to me. And that's the amazing thing instead of just feeling gratitude. Let's say rung and felt it, but he didn't say it to me.

If he didn't say it to me, he would have not had the experience a of sharing it, b of receiving my gratitude back to him, and our relationship deepening based on that simple message he sent me. And so gratitude becomes more powerful when you express it daily. So every day I ask yourself, who's a person that you want to express gratitude to you and go and tell them. Secondly, what's a place that you're grateful for and spend more time in that place, And what's a project that you're

grateful for in your life? And if you write these down every single day before you go to bed, who's a person I'm grateful for and why, what's a place that I'm grateful for and why? And right now it may not be a place you can go to, may be a place that you visited and you're so grateful you got to go there before COVID. And the third thing is a project in your life. And so when you express gratitude, make sure that it's specific. So I'll

give you an example. Let's say rung And throws a party with his wife this weekend at their home, and their friends come over. And one of his friends rung And, give me two friends names in your life, and we'll pick on them for a bit.

his first thing in the morning, his phone. That's not what Rangon does.

for letting us have this moment together. So those are two messages A l B. Which one do you think cards is Rongon more joy now wronging the grateful person, So we'll be grateful to both of them, but he's more likely, and honestly, all of us are going to be more grateful to Jeremy in that scenario because he's gone into more depth and being specific about what he actually liked and learned, and because of that, he's now going to attract more love and gratitude back from Rongon

as well. So that's why expressing gratitude is actually the key. And if we can express gratitude to people, places, and projects. We start to develop more gratitude in our life, and that's something we can do daily. And it can be an email, it can be a voice note, can be a text, it could be a video call, but it can be as simple as just a text message. But specific gratitude is scientifically shown to be better for you and better for the other person.

phone on at nights. You know, there's that bit of insecurity at first, and I don't know, just express the damn gratitude, you know, you'd you know, I think the wrong of a few years ago possibly wouldn't have done it out of insecurity. Or will this be taken the right way or the wrong way or whatever, but that I would say the person I am today, having done a lot of the work and having practiced a lot of these tools, you know there is if not only did as you're sharing. Does it feel good for you

to get it? But it feels nice to share. I'm doing a lot of voice notes these days. I'm finding I'm going in to WhatsApp pressing the mic. In fact, someone told me during lockdown that you can actually press it and flip it up, my friend Jay, Thanks, Jerdi, I didn't know you could do that. I said, you can talk without actually holding it.

And yeah, I think gratitude is super powerful. One thing I'm going to add, well, I'll ask you, actually, do you do your gratitude practice by yourself or do you also do it with your wife?

figure out my mind first. It's almost like if you're both trying to solve a problem together, you can help each other, but one person can sometimes take shortcuts because the other person kind of carries the weight, and it's really important to really be clear about who you're grateful for. You can do it with your partner, of course, but make sure one of you are not kind of relying on the other person to come up with all the answers and do all the hard work when it really

needs to be a personal feeling. So you know, yeah, for me, it's for me. I feel gratitude is the easiest gift you can give someone and the easiest gift for someone to receive, especially when it's genuine and specific and rung. And I would encourage you not just with me, but with anyone. You know, it was so genuine and specific that you know I recommend you continue to do that sharing of gratitude as you saw and you said it's visceral.

and helped me do something. But you know what will that come across wrong? I don't really know what will they think? I mean, what would you say someone like that?

It's like a limited ego, So you know, you can kind of lose gratitude through ego. Did you think, oh, if I tell them that they're good, then that means I'm not good, which is not true at all. The other way the insecurity comes in gratitude is like, well, what if they think I'm just trying to I'm just trying to get close to them, or I'm just trying to say something nice for the sake of it, or I'm just lying or pretending, Like what if they think I'm just trying to suck up to them?

you're just thanking them for what they've already done. You're not thanking them for what they're about to do. You're thanking them for what they're already done. So now if they respond in an ungrateful way, you haven't lost your gratitude because you're grateful for what they did in the past, not what they did in the future. So don't then go, oh, well, they didn't even deserve me to be grateful, because they did for that moment of what they did for you.

So share it because it's good for you. Don't worry about how they respond.

we spend less time on. We're constantly trying to change how people think about us, and we think if they think highly of us, then we'll feel better about ourselves. But that's not the case. The case is we can change how we feel about ourselves by changing our behavior and being more in aligned with the person we want

to be with our values. As Rangan said, going back full circle, So don't get lost in trying to change other people's perceptions of you, because that could be a never ending journey and a journey that you never reach the destination of because you never will truly be able to control it.

down from your book. And I can't remember which chapter it's sent, but you say it's impossible to build one's own happiness on the unhappiness of others.

that couple was getting a divorce? Did you know the marriage only lasted like two years? And what you're really saying is, well, we've somehow managed to stay together for eight years, Like we've done pretty all right, right, and you're kind of gossiping about them, or another way it goes is like what did you hear about him? He's totally messed it up, like he's getting fired next week. And all you're doing is you're making someone feel inferior

to make yourself feel superior. That doesn't create happiness. It creates more uncertain ground because now you're constantly looking for someone else to feel inferior for you to feel superior, and guess what, God forbid, someone's now outperforming you. You're now feeling inferior, and you're feeling all the insecurity of what you felt about someone else. So it's never a stable ground, right, I believe it's in the Bible, but you know you can't. I think it's that you can't

build your home on shifting sands. But in the same way, you can't build a stable identity of yourself on the gossip or the mistakes of others. And so you've got to be really careful about not building a ground for yourself. Imagine the ground you're standing on is built on blocks of superiority, bricks of gossip and mud and cement of criticism. That's not going to hold. And so you don't want to create your joy because other people are struggling or suffering.

You want to create your joy because you know how to deal with struggle and suffering.

like it would. And I've really explored this, and you know, given the time you've got left, I sort of probably can't go down this rabbit hole. But you know, I know one component is that as a kid, you know how I did at school, you know, And again I don't know if this is the same in your household. I know a lot of immigrant families have this sort of mentality. If you you know, if you got ninety eight percent, it's like, well why was it not one

hundred percent? Yeah, you know, you were like, well you came second in that tess why what happened? Who was first? Why didn't you come first?

much almost gone from me. Now, I've I'm pretty okay with it now, like I don't feel and I think that is. I think it's such an important quote that you've shared because I sort of think now and we should probably talk about social media a bit, because you know, you're pretty much the king of social media in so many ways, and I think I'd love to know some

of your thoughts on social media. But with respect to that quote, I think one of the negatives, and there's no doubt been a lot of positives of social media. You know, you have shared such amazing wisdom in your videos to millions of people around the world, which potentially may not have happened without social media, right, So it's not about saying it's either good or bad. But I do think for some people it can magnify those insecurity.

So if you feel that you can build your happiness on the unhappiness of others, people can get very focused on follow accounts and likes, And I certainly know in the in the UK medic world there's a lot of medics feel a pressure to be building up their profiles and of contacts and me saying, you know, I'm not sure what to do, and you think, wow, it's causing such discontentment, and it's just a metric that in so many levels. I'm not I'm not gonna say it's meaningless.

Of course it's not meaningless, but if you're trying to do it, because how you'll be perceived by others. Going back to what we've been talking about throughout this conversation, what are you posting for? What are you hoping to achieve by posting? Is it in service? Is it to help people or is it to elevate yourself? Yea, you know, I don't know. Maybe you can untangle that as some for us, because I'm sure some people are listening, Will will be thinking.

started to get followers. They all started because they had something to share, whatever that was, whether it was comedy, whether it's wisdom, whether it was a workout plan, a fitness plan, whatever it was like, they had something that they did that they were passionate about they wanted to share. And I can only speak to myself fully, but when I started, I thought I was going to have a full time corporate job and I was going to make videos on the evenings and weekends to share a message.

That's genuinely all I believe. And after my first month, I had about a thousand subscribers on YouTube, about four videos I'd made on YouTube had about a thousand people that had subscribed to my channel, and most of my friends were like, great, Jay, that's where it's going to end, Like congrats, well done, You've got a thousand subscribers. You're kind of just crept in there in thirty days, like, well done, that's cool, Like how far is this going to go? And that's really the reality of what it

felt like. And the interesting thing is the question was never how do I get more followers? The question was always how do I make more content that impacts people? Because and that's the question with everything. It's like, if you make more content that genuinely impacts people, you get more followers. If you build a business that serves more people, you'll make more money. If you help a lot of people through your talents and gifts, you will be famous

and known for it. Like it's a byproduct of doing something properly. And that's why I love the definition that Peter Demandes gives that we should redefine the word billionaire to be someone who impacts the lives of a billion people. Why is Jeff Bezos the richest man in the world because he's created a product that we all say we want and that it solves a problem that we really need. And so if you want to get followers, don't look

at the number. Ask yourself, are you really creating the value that's going to help people, and they going to naturally want to follow you, and they're going to want to love your work and share it. Because to me, that's the worthwhile pursuit in life because when you do that work, that work is humbling. When you do that creativity, that's the part that makes you grateful for the success that you get because you go, wow, like people actually

care about what I have to say. But if you're just obsessed about numbers and metrics without being obsessed by the content, the creation, and the service, then you'll never be satisfied because there'll always be someone better than you. So for me, when I said I to write this book, so many people are like, oh, so, do you want this book to be a best seller? And I said, I want this book to be a best seller. Of course I do, but I'm not going to focus on

it being a best seller. I'm going to focus on writing the best book in the world that I can possibly write given the skills that I have. And that's why when I talk about dharma in the book, which is helping everyone find their purpose, dharma is broken down. Dharma means purpose loosely and has many different mess. But one of them is nature in purpose, your true nature. And the three aspects that I'll share now for the

and there's more depth in the book. The three aspects of dharma are your passion, your skills, and your compassion. That's what it means. When you have your passion plus your skills plus your compassion, that equals purpose. But for most of us, if we're just looking at numbers and metrics and data, I mean, you'll be dissatisfied that. And I'm saying that as someone who really values numbers. I understand the value of followers, social media. I get the

value of all those things, and I'm highly strategic. But I'll be completely honest with you, I'm not focused on the number. I'm focused on making content. And that's the message that if we're focused on really creating value in the world, all of the other stuff will come naturally. You know, you don't have to go out and separately try and get it. And you know, rang and you've done a great job of this. You've made content that's

very organic to you. You've made content that's very natural to you, and and I think that's what people gravitate towards you and your podcast and your books, because it's you being yourself. You're not trying to sound like someone else. You're not trying to be someone else. And if you look at the most successful creators in the world, they're all like that. They've just really shared their raw personality with others.

So I think it is incredible and I will sit with a lot of these as I already am, but as I have become more me and i'm you know I post frankly, you know, I'm like you, Like many people, I'm a busy guy. I've got two young kids. You know, I made it to say that I spending time with my children, spending undistracted time with my family is more important to me than other things. You know, people have

heard me say before. I don't tend to let's say instant story that much, or when I'm at home because my kids are around, and for me, it doesn't fit with my values to model to them that every aspect of my life needs to be documented into a screen. Now, that is absolutely not a criticism of people who do do that. It genuinely isn't. It's just not the way

I choose to do things. But really, what I was trying to say is that I think what you said about your focus on making content that changes people's lives, and of course some people are going to share it because you're giving people something of value. And I found not only particularly with this podcast, which is probably the favorite thing of all the things that I do now, because I get to be myself. I get to talk

with amazing people like you. We get to have honest conversations that really, you know, often there's no real agenda, that's just about trying to share your insight, my insight, just have these sort of conversations and I and I feel I have become a happier and more content person since I started doing my podcast because it's helped me be myself. It's exhausting trying to be someone else. It's do you know what I mean, it's tiring trying to

be someone else. And going back to what you said at the start, if people are trying to spend their lives living someone else's life, it's knackering.

think we have to be what's rewarded in society. And actually we're now living at a time where what's being rewarded in society as being yourself and and you know, and that authenticity, And you're right, it's it's not about whether someone's posting thirty stories a day or not. It's that's not what it's about. It's about is that authentically the life they want to live. That's the question. The question isn't do you make videos or have a podcast

or have millions of followers. The question is that authentic to who you are and what you're really trying to do in the world, because by the way, I know people who've impacted the world who have zero followers. Yeah, right, like I know people who've impacted the world who have no videos or content. That's not the only way to impact the world. That is a way to impact the world, and that's a way that I had to pursue, and

Rungan's pursued in a different way in his life. And if you look at Rungin's journey and my journey, we're doing it in different ways. There's no sameness in how it's being done because everyone has that. So don't limit yourself to believe there's only one way to getting to where you want to go. There are multiple parts, and you probably have to test an experiment and take a few of them to see which one actually comes to fruition.

And I took many parts. I tried so many things before I tried social media that social media was the only option I had left. And so for me, social media wasn't even my first choice. Social media was my last choice of how to work. But I was getting no breakthroughs from media companies and media execs and content platform I just I got no love from it all. So I had to turn to social media.

feel better in ourselves, we get more out of our life. Now, you shared some wonderful insights and practical tips of people in the show today. I'd always like to leave people with a few practical things that they can think about introducing into their life immediately to change the quality of

the lives, to change the way they feel. You have so many tips, it's a tricky question, but do you have three or four sort of closing tips words of wisdom for people to really start changing things immediately.

looks anymore? Yeah, right. We're so used to looking at people's lips as they talk that we know what words they're saying. Now that we can't see their lips, we realize we're actually not that great listeners, and our ears are almost to sleep, so we rely so much on our eyes. So let me explain to you what you can change. Let's talk about sites what you see. Ask yourself right now, what's the first thing you see in

the morning. What's the first thing? Eighty percent of people they see their phone first thing in the morning and lasting in the night, after they see their partner and before they see them in the morning. Eighty percent of us change it. I want you to see something in the morning that fills you with joy. It could be your favorite quote, It could be your favorite teaching It could be a picture that your kids drew that you absolutely love. It could be a photo of your family.

It could be a work of art that inspires you. I surround myself in my studio with pictures of places I've lived, people that I'm inspired by, stories that I've told, because it fills my mind with energy when I walk into this room. If I walked in and saw a blank, white wall, of course I'm gonna go this is way more interesting. But my wall's more interesting than this to me because it's meaningful. And so the first thing you see in the morning, don't make it something reactive, don't

make it a message or an email. Make it something that you've chosen to inspire you. That's the first thing. The second thing is the sense in your life. Why is it that when you walk into a spa or you get a massage you feel relaxed. It's because they have sandal wood, lavender, and eucalyptus just spraying out of diffuses and candles, and it's an instant way of feeling calm. If you just inhale on your inward breath for a

count of four and excel for account of four. If you just inhale eucalyptus, lavender, sandalward, whatever scent you like from a diffuse or a candle, you will feel a natural sense of calm in your life. And feel that clarity that you need to drop out of that anxious feeling you may have. And you can have a different scent in your living room, a different scent in your bedroom, a different sent in your kitchen, one that feels right for the energy you want in that room. And the

third and final one is sound. So many of us don't realize the power of sound. But whether you're listening to your favorite song or whether you listen to nature sounds. When we were monks, we would rise to nature sounds, and we found that the sound of nature is so at pace with the body and the mind. And when I lived in New York, I'd often feel exhausted mentally, and I wonder why I exercise, I meditate, why is it that I feel that way? And I realized because

it's of something when I researched called cognitive load. Your brain is making sense of insignificant sounds of drilling, of construction, work, of cars and taxis and horns, and so your brain doesn't have the power to deal with what's actually it's trying to focus on. So ask yourself, what are the sounds in the background of your life? Are they songs that bring you to life. Are they music that calm you down before you go to bed? Use sites, sense and sounds to change the state and energy of any

environment in your home. And if you literally walked into every room in your house and you said, what is the site that inspires me in this room? What is the scent that calms me in this room? And what is the sound that makes me feel like ease in this room? And you sound design, site design and scent design each of your rooms. We're just a candle, a picture, and a playlist. You'll transform the way you feel starting today.

up some of your precious times today we meet the listeners have loved having you off for your to live more and of looking forward to the next time, and.

shared this with your audience and your community. And I can't wait to do lots more together. Man, I'm excited. I genuinely am, like I really look forward to it. Because yeah, this, this was such a joy and such a treat, and this was my first thing of the day. So I'm glad I got to glad I got to do this with you. Thank you so much.

leaving out. Researchers recruited more than eleven hundred study participants and had them write one of three letters. One group wrote a thank you letter to someone who'd done something for them. Another group wrote a letter describing something positive that had happened to them, and the third group was instructed to address their letter dear passed me and express

gratitude for something they had done for themselves. The traditional thank you notes and the letters describing something positive were all great and filled people with happy vibes, But the researchers noticed something interesting about the third set of letters. When people wrote to their past selves, they tended to focus on a difficult experience and thanked them solve elves for persevering through a tough time. The word brave came

up frequently. Lead researcher Matt Baldwin says that thank me letters seem to bring us closer to a sense of who we really are by underscoring the good qualities we've shown over our lifetime, and they remind us how we've already demonstrated to ourselves that we can overcome challenges and obstacles. Once we recognize that we've done it, before we realize we can do it again. We tend to think of gratitude as an external practice. We direct our appreciation towards others,

to our spouse, our dog, our favorite podcaster. We might even give thanks to the sun for shining, or to our car for being so reliable, and that's great. It's wonderful to acknowledge others, but don't forget yourself, because you're the person most deserving of your thanks. We're often quick to be harsh with ourselves and slow to show compassion and kindness. Conscious self gratitude helps with that. I know that life's journey isn't always pretty. Sometimes we encounter challenges

that we're convinced are insurmountable. Maybe you're even experiencing a situation like that now. If so, there's no better time to reach out to your past self, recall and acknowledge your fortitude, your creativity, or your ability to hang in there and get to that next day, that next hour, even that next minute. Every single one of us is so much more powerful, capable, and resilient than we often believe.

So every once in a while, stop and thank yourself for all the ways large or small that you've showed up for yourself in the past, and continue to do so each day. With that in mind, let's practice a gratitude based body scan. We're going to check in with ourselves part by part while saying thanks to our body for supporting us throughout the day. And if any piece of this practice doesn't feel right for you or your body,

go ahead and modify it to best suit you. First, bring your attention to your eyes, closing them if you'd like, and observing how they feel. Maybe tired, may be alert, It's okay if you don't observe anything at all. Say a quiet thank you for all your eyes do to help you move through the world. Now, shift your attention to your ears, noticing any sounds that may be present, express gratitude for this moment and all others. Moving your

awareness to your jaw and consciously letting it relax. Our jaw does a lot every day, but how often do we acknowledge it. For the next few moments, I want to give you the space to decide which body parts to scan and thank maybe the lungs for breathing, the heart for beating, the hands for working so hard. Totally your call, and now let's open this up. With our time remaining, I want you to think about how you

would start your thank me note. Begin with dear past me, and express gratitude for something anything you've done for yourself. Your homework is to finish your letter today, and i'd encourage you to put it on paper. Remember you are deserving of gratitude from yourself. I should also say that I'm grateful for you and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow