Strigiformology (OWLS) Part 1 with R.J. Gutiérrez

Här kommer en liten hälsning från oss på AMF till landets alla byggarbetare. Ni som ser till att planer blir verklighet, ni som har noggrannheten som krävs, även på en byggnadsställning i Regn och Bloss. Ni reser skolor, sjukhus och bostäder och buter grunden som allt vila på. Tack för att ni bygger Sverige. Under tiden jobbar vi för att ni ska få en riktigt bra pension. Hälsar från pensionspollaget AMF. Välkommen till en väldigt svensk bank.

Oh hey, it's the guy who runs the local board game night. Hoping someone shows up at the pizza place to game. Allie Ward. Boy hootie, I've wanted to cover this one forever. And it was all a matter of finding the right owl person. And we did it. We got him. I have so much to say about this guest.

That I'm gonna list it in bullet points. Okay, so they got their PhD at the University of California, Berkeley. They have studied owls for over four decades. Their papers have been cited nearly 14,000 times. I noticed that in their papers they thank their wife, KT, and they seem genuinely in love. They came highly recommended by several other allologists, including Dr. Gavin Jones of the Fire Ecology episode.

I had to beg this owl guest to be on this episode because they kept asking if they were right for it. I did this by taking a phone call as I was driving through the desert and I pulled over at a dusty turnout to chat with them for like 30 minutes about why I was already obsessed with them and their work. Before we recorded, this guest sent me some pictures and owl videos.

Uh, but there was nothing attached to the email. And then I got another one five minutes later with the subject line, oops, and the email just said, I got distracted by critters outside my window, so I forgot to attach the file. When we finally did log on to chat, they were wearing a sweater with owls on it. Uh-oh, I love them. And you will too. It's all the fieldwork stories and passion of a Merlin Tuttle bat guy with the soothing mellow vibe of the Bryology Moss guest.

doctor Robin Wall Kimmerer. This one, it's an instant classic. We will get to that in just a sec, but first thank you so much to all the patrons who sent in their questions. You too can support the show on Patreon for a mere dollar a month. Thank you to everyone out there wearing Oligies Merch from OlogiesMerch.com. Also, if you need shorter kid-friendly episodes that are classroom safe,

We have them in their own feed for you called Smologies, S-M-O-L-O-G-I-E-S. You can get them for free by subscribing to Smallogies wherever you get podcasts. Also, thanks to everyone who leaves a review for us, which helped the show so much. I read them all. And this week, Unfolded Shoe wrote one that said, The other night I had a dream. A dream in which I was in a lecture hall being taught by Professor Allie Ward and Assistant Professor Jack Black.

I don't know if you two will ever teach higher education together, but needless to say, this is my favorite podcast. Unfolded Shoe, I don't know if that will happen, but I am open to it. Also, we're doing our first ever live show. Not Jack Black, he won't be there, but I will.

Uh it's on Monday, November seventeenth at the Bell House in Brooklyn, but we are sold out. But that's good news'cause it means that there might be a bigger tour coming soon. So we're gonna pilot it on the seventeenth. We're gonna see how it goes. Okay, so let's get into

Strigoform. Straight up it comes from the Latin for owl, which comes from the Greek. for owl. So cozy up in a blanket. Sit on the porch in the dusk to catch some owl parenting facts, why they have pokey things on their heads, facts about eyes that left me unable to think about anything else. Owl hoots, roosts. Nasty.

Perches, why so silent in the night if you should get an owl box in your yard? A high-profile case in the news involving owls, how researchers study and check up on them, how to boost their numbers where they need it, and what happens when there are too many owls. Also How One Walk Can Change Your Life with this Part One of a Two Part Episode with Researcher, Professor, and Gordon Gullian Endowed Chair Emeritus at the University of Minnesota, Owl Experts, and one of the loveliest aologists.

Dragopharmologist doctor R. J. Uh my real name is Ralph Joseph Gutierrez, but everybody calls me Rocky. I've been called Rocky since before I was born, apparently. Who decided that? Uh my mother, actually. My mother uh said that when she was pregnant with me that If it was a girl, she would name her uh Rahenya, and if it was a boy, she'd name him Ralph uh and call him Rocky.

Was it Iraqi pregnancy? Oh, I don't know. She made that decision b way beforehand. At least that's the family theory anyway, or legend, I should say legend. Well, it suits you. I feel like I think about you scrambling up rocky surfaces in the woods, looking at nature. So it kinda works, right? Right. Yeah.

I love this sweater too. Was this a sweater that you found or was this something that was made for you? No, my wife made this sweater. Ah. She uh she knitted it. It's uh that it was the first one she made. She's made a a bunch of sweaters for me beforehand. But she designed this and then knitted the spotted owls because that's the primary owl I work on.

No, I liked it so much. Ever since then she's made a new sweater for me every year of some species of owl I've worked with or some other species that, you know, we've both seen someplace in the world and She's pretty amazing, because she designs the whole thing from on a piece of graph paper and then

Spends, you know, a good part of the year uh knitting it. They're actually works of art. So Katie sounds amazing. If she weren't already married, I would ask her to marry me. She sounds like the best. Yeah.

And now the spotted owl, this is your primary study species. That's correct. Take me back a little bit to when owls started to sort of capture your attention. How far back does it go? D were you a birder or did you start looking at other things outside and then an owl flew over your head? What happened? Well, I'm glad you asked that question. I w I was hoping that you would, because this is this is a story I've never told anyone. I never shared this with with anyone, including including my wife.

And um one time I went fishing with two of my cousins when I was about It must have been somewhere between eight and ten years old. And we went to um the Rio Grande River, adjacent to Taos, New Mexico. So this is near the eight hundred feet deep Rio Grande Gorge. Think of steep, craggy rocks and sage brush and the arid American southwest plain, rimmed by mountains. And on the west is this huge black chasm going through this plain.

And that's what we call the Rio Grande Box. So we we drove to the box and then we hiked down into it. And we got down there about evening time. My two cousins says, Well you wait here, we're gonna go find a campsite. And I'm just a little kid, you know. I mean I'm I don't know, you know, one thing from the other. And I'm sitting there and it got darker and darker and darker and I'm starting to get more and more afraid and scared and I'm I'm shaking.

And all of a sudden it wa it was dark then by then, but not a full moon. So it was it was a quite a dark night. Not a pitch black night, but definitely really dark. And I looked up and I saw Oh great horned out. I could see the ears and the outline of the thing. I couldn't make out the definition. And I went, wow, you know, that was really interesting. And then its mate flew in and sat next to it. So then I th I started thinking, well, I can actually see these things and it's dark.

And at that time I didn't realize I had a very high nighttime visual acute. And so I just then w you know, followed the riverbank and finally found them, you know, jawing it up and around the campfire. And I don't know what they were thinking. They were just gonna leave me there all night. So years later I was in the army, 17 years old, going through combat training, and they put me on guard duty out in the middle of the bush.

And I'm sitting there by myself and I'm getting more and more spooked because it's darker and darker and darker and and they would play tricks on you. They'd sneak up and, you know, if they caught you then you'd you know, you get demerits or whatever, you know, they yell at you. And so I was getting all freaked out. And then I started thinking So wait a second. I could see those owls and I could see walking along the creek. I said, there's no one going to sneak up on me.

Listen, I can see better than anybody. And then that's when I made this big connection with the ability to see at night and the owls and what made me really gravitate towards owls. And so thereafter

Whenever I had a chance, I would spend time looking for owls in in college. I even would find, say, a great horned owl nest. and then I'd go in the evening after classes and just sit there and watch'em, you know, at a distance so I didn't bother him. Eventually I was um had my first faculty position at a Ivy League school back east and A a paper came out in a journal about the relationship between spotted owls

And uh Old Growth Forest. And this late 1970s paper, Spotted Owl Abundance in Young versus Old Growth Forests, Oregon, was published in the Wildlife Society Bulletin and it was co-authored by Rocky's future colleague. And it begins by addressing that preliminary studies indicate that harvest of mature forests in Oregon and elsewhere may be causing the spotted owl to decline in numbers.

And as a result, it says there is considerable interest in the habitat requirements of this owl, whether spotted owls can exist in even age. Second growth forests created by intensive timber management is of particular interest. So more on how the spotted owls are doing in a bit. But Rocky headed west after reading this paper to the forests of Humboldt State University to teach and to start up more research with some grad students.

And my very first graduate student wanted to s study Spotted Out. And his name was David Solis. And David was was a Vietnam vet and actually many of my early students and assistants were uh vets and I I I was very partial to Vietnam vets for obvious reasons. So I thought at the time I said, You know, David, I said, This spotted out could be a really big deal. This is we're talking nineteen seventy nine.

Oh my god. When it wasn't a big deal. Because now forty-five years later, the spotted owl ecology is a very big deal. And research began to show this steep decline of spotted owls in the Pacific Northwestern United States. And as a result, these new restrictions on logging were imposed to save the old growth forests and maintain the ecology.

Did not enjoy this, and apparently they hung effigies of dead spotted owls in sawmills. They slapped bumper stickers on their trucks that read I like spotted owls. fried, and kill a spotted owl, save a lager. The issue of the spotted owl conservation is drama, and it has been for decades. And from what I've been reading, it's really politically charred.

We're going to get more into the standing of how many of these owls are left in the wild, what the status is, and what ecologists think we should do about it. Again,

Lots of drama. But the short of it is it's a big deal. And when you look at the authors on so many spotted owl papers, you'll see RJ Gutierrez. About seventy five percent of his grad students of the years have worked on owls. But from our first conversation on the phone as I was parked on the side of the road, asking him to be on, he has always been really humble and gracious and credits others for their work. I've just been blessed by having

just a a wonderful group of students who have contributed so much to to science and conservation of the Squad and Owl. And people I know this makes you uncomfortable, but people sing your praises as the owl guy. so much where you're named in books about owls, people talk about you, the legend of Rodney Materias, of like the owl guy, to the point where I was chasing you down like uh like you were prey.

hoping you would be on this episode. I'm so excited. And of course, the praise is not something that he accepts easily. It can be hard to see yourself as others do, even if you have great vision. Do your pupils just get bigger than other people's? Were you or were you a night owl yourself, or have you always been like a an evening person?

Actually I'm a morning person, which is sort of surprising. Usually uh go to sleep at nine or nine thirty and get up at five and go swimming. But when I work on owls, of course, you just adjust. I suppose that is One of my characteristics is adaptability. So whatever the situation calls for, I adapt to it.

And I think that's something I learned both from, you know, working as a kid and also being in the military, in the army, is that you have to adapt and you have to respond to situations as they arise. Because I'm definitely not a night person. I uh prefer to go to sleep early. Uh when it came to owls being a steady species of yours, was there a moment when you you really realized like

Owls are and I'll couch this, but owls might be better than all the other birds. Yeah, I said it. Do you have a soft spot for them particularly? And what is it about them that you love? Well, actually my uh doctoral dissertation was on quail, mountain quail. No one had ever done a doctoral dissertation on mountain quail.

And when I told my major professor, Starker Leopold at Berkeley that I was gonna work on mountain quail pushed his chair back from his from his desk and he opened the drawer and he pulled out a little string and he said, Here Here's a rope, go hang yourself. You know, he's he's he said, nobody's ever been able to work on mountain quest. He said, so forget about it. And I said, you don't say you can't do something to me.

That's just like raving a red flag in front of a bull. And so I took it on as a challenge and I did complete the first PhD on on mountain quail. And likewise with owls. They are a challenge to work on because they're nocturnal and they're often difficult to find. But with a spotted owl, fortunately we have many people who have worked on them. Uh Eric Forsman, a good colleague of mine,

from Oregon, he was the first one that really studied spotted owls a and learned a great deal about them that set the sort of the foundation for the rest of us to to work on the these birds. And So I'm not really a legend in that respect because there's many other people that worked on spotted owls that probably know a lot more about spotted owls than I do.

But regardless, that's one of the things that I find in working with species is I in I really enjoy challenges and something that is demanding and hard, and especially if the habitat is. Rough, you know, and mountain quail are uh and botted owls both are in usually in uh steep mountains and you know, you gotta be in really good physical condition to go find them and so forth. So this is something I really um enjoy. It's the challenge of of these species that

Galliforms as well as as the owls. Just a heads up, a galliform is like a chicken, a turkey, a quail. the kind of awkward loping around the ground birds, the landfowl. Galliform comes from the Latin for rooster. And we do have a two-part episode on chickens that we will link in the show notes. You're welcome. Also, Rocky's longtime colleague, Dr. Eric Forceman, is also an accomplished strigoformiologist and we'll touch on him and rodents in a bit. And when it comes to strigoforms,

Right? Strigiformy. Strigiformes, what makes a strigiforme a strigiforme? What makes an owl an owl? Well, one way to think about this is Think about the owl as an illusion. So if we peel back layers of this illusion, we get an idea of what the owl is like. So let's look at their overall appearance. So when you look at an owl, they have a big round head.

Mm-hmm. And then they have big eyes. And so that sort of attracts people to owls, at least in North American Europe. So not every culture is like me a simp for owls. Some folks, especially in different parts of the world. are strigoformiphobes. So more on that in part two. And so you have this big head with big round eyes. But in fact. Their skull is like a triangle.

So if you put your fingers together and make a triangle, that's what their skull actually looks like. Oh. Okay, so let's say your thumbs are touching, right? You've got a triangle. The short side your thumbs are the eyes, and then your pointer fingers would be the beak. So owls are not pug dogs. They are like golden doodles with a dog snout under a bunch of fluff. And so it's an illusion that their heads are actually round. Their whole beak and everything, it's just this big triangle.

And what you're seeing is a combination of the eyes, which are actually in tubes. So their elongated eyes that are held in place rigidly By something called a scleral ring. You can think of it as like a bunch of shingles, bony shingles, and they provide a rigid structure for its eye. And then around that is this huge facial discs that owls have. You can see that on all the owls that they have this mass of feathers that make

the owl appear as if it has this big rounded head when it actually it's it's triangular when you consider the beak together. And are their eyes tubular shaped or are they in tube? They're tubular shaped. What? Yeah. Like a sausage eye? Yeah, yeah, they're sort of strange. Of course, this varies by the species of owls, but most of'em have that elongated shape.

And there are actually some mammals that have that too, like bush babies and some of these nocturnal primates have these elongated eyeballs. So owls, big puffy, feathery face, and tube eyes, like big fat worms, held in place by a bony What? In a human, for example, it's like point zero zero three percent of the body weight. So they have a lot of investment in their eyes. And in those eyes, because they're held in place They cannot move.

They're the eyeballs. Like we can sit there straight ahead and watch people out of the corner of our eye, and we have great peripheral vision. The owls can't do that. Their eyes are fixed in their their head, and as a consequence, they have to move their heads to see where they're going. Now, owls are different than most other birds in that that most other birds have their eyes on the sides of their head, so they have good peripheral vision, but not good binocular vision.

And binocular vision is very important for depth perception. And owls have about a seventy degree field of binocular vision. Humans, by contrast, have nearly a hundred and eighty degree binocular vision. But this adaptation, it's not just a badge of predator versus prey. A bunch of plant eaters who have to swing through trees have two forward facing eyes because it helps them judge the distance. before leaping between branches and getting smacked in the face.

But Rocky, because he's awesome, emailed me later wanting to impart more details about their vision. He's the best. He wrote, Owls see way better in the dark than us and other birds, because at the end of those Sausage eyes, he says. They have a higher proportion of rods.

which are the light-sensitive structures, relative to the cones, which are the color-sensitive structures, than other birds or humans. In fact, He continues, in the retina there is something called the foveal pit, which is a depression in the retina and that Highly sensitive. It's densely packed with only rods. The light sensitive structure. In addition, he says many owls have this reflective layer behind the retina. It's called a tapidum lucidum, and it gathers even more light into the rods.

And he says, this is why if you shine a flashlight at some animals, their eyes glow. It's light reflecting off that tapidum lucidum layer. So now we know this. And if you have a soft spot for creatures of the evening, you can enjoy our episodes about lemurs, raccoons, possums. We even have a whole eye episode. But yeah, owls. Great binocular vision via those tubes and pipes. But as much as an owl would like to, they can't give a lot of side eye. It's not as wide as ours.

because their other eyes are fixed, but it still gives them the ability to focus in and determine the distance a prey is, for example. And so Because they have this fixed eye and binocular visions, what they have to do is turn their head to see where a sound is coming from. But one of the adaptations they uh have evolved to compensate for this restricted eye is that they can rotate their head, they can swivel their head 270 degrees.

So they can turn it all around. When you think about twisting your hair, well we just can't do that. I can barely get my head forty forty five degrees around. But when they twist it, The foramen or foramina that the arteries of the neck going up into the brain, they run through these holes in the vertebrae, and they are actually quite wide. So that when they twist it. The artery doesn't get the

constrict it. Oh wow. Because if we were able to do that somehow, we'd probably constrict our uh carotid arteries and we'd pass out. Mm-hmm. But they don't need that. They just switch all the way around. And the other thing is owls have fourteen vertebrae. In their neck was the

Whereas we only have seven. They have a very long neck. And again, that's an illusion, because if you look at it, they look like they have little short necks. But actually they have a really long neck. And it's all because of this facial disc is covering things up and the feathers on their Shoulders and so forth. And the facial disc itself is unique in that they can actually control these feathers. And it's like us putting our hands behind our ears and cupping them.

Mm-hmm. And we do that when we want to hear something far away and we put our hands behind our ears and cup them. Okay, so looking under the hood again, owls can spin their necks like an exorcism because they have twice as many neck bones as us. And under all those feathers, they only have two fewer neck bones than a duck. They're skellies, I looked em up, they look like a completely different bird. You'd be like, what bird is this? You would not guess anything.

They also have, again, bigger holes for their arteries, and those disc flat faces that we love are not structural so much as tweaked through their feather adjustments. I know you're saying the legs, the legs, the legs. We gotta talk about their weird little frog legs. We're gonna get to that in part two, I promise. And also on their ear flap.

They have these little flaps on their ear that can control the opening and closing of the ears, but they also have feathers behind them that also can direct sound into their ears. So owls are hunting machines. But why do some of them have so much style in the head region? And then another thing about them is uh an illusion. Sometimes you see these little What we call owl ears that's sticking up on great horned owls and screech owls.

What are those? Well, we think they're probably uh signals of some kind, a signaling device that owls that are primarily or that hunt in the twilight hours of dawn and dusk. That's a term we call crepuscular. And We think that they might be signals between the pair, but they are not any have anything to do with the ears. So what do you know about the ear? The ears are actually big long slits on the side of their heads.

And the ears themselves are offset. So the ear on the right hand side is higher than the one on the left. And their head is proportionately much larger than most birds. And as a consequence, when the sound hits those ears. This is sort of mind-boggling, but the difference in time between the sound hitting one ear and the other ear is 30 milliseconds.

And they can actually tell the difference of the direction of sound based on that teeny, teeny, teeny, you know, millions of of seconds uh sound. To illustrate, here are two beeps that are thirty milliseconds apart. And these are all these adjustments that the owls have made. And so when you look at them, it looks like they don't have ears, but they actually do have them. But they're just these narrow slits hidden behind feathers.

So there's the owl is is sort of enigmatic in the way it it appears to you, but when you as we have just done pull those things apart, you start to see what an owl is really like, which is a bird that has evolved to conquer the night.

Are all owls nocturnal or crepuscular or are there daytime owls? There are daytime owls. There are these crepuscular evening uh and uh morning hunting owls as but m the majority of owls are nocturnal. Mm-hmm. So like burrowing owls and um short ears owls, they're primarily diurnal and screech owls Great horned owls spend quite a bit of their time

in the evening in early morning hours hunting, but most of the rest of the owls are nocturnal. You know, when I first moved to my neighborhood Well, first I had lived in an apartment in a busy part of LA for a while, but uh when I moved to this house we had much more nature. And I found a feather and I looked at it closely and I realized it was an owl feather because it had little sort of a serrated edge. And I freaked out so excited. And sure enough, we have a pair of great horned owls.

And you can hear it a woo woo hoo. Woohoo at night, all at night. It's so great. I love them. We see them all the time. But can you explain a little bit about? How they're so quiet. Because one will fly right by me. You can't hear a sound. And do all owls have that or only some? Uh versatily all owls have silent flight. Now, the ones that don't are the ones that hunt fish, like in the genus Katupa and some bubos. Like the Blackasson's fish owl, the world's largest owl.

So these are 10-pound chunkers, and if you are thirsty for more info, I would like to direct you toward the wonderful book by another strigoformologist titled Owls of the Eastern Ice. A Quest to Find and Save the World's Largest Owl by Dr. Jonathan C. Slatt, who was a grad student of Rocky's. And one reason I was so thrilled to get Rocky on this show is that Jonathan wrote about doing field work with him.

So Jonathan writes about some field work that he was doing in Asia and he writes that his guide on the trip had not met Rocky before, but his past experiences with foreigners had taught him that most were doughy. Pampered and unable to bear the discomfort of the insect swarms.

The cat holes, and the insect squirms at cat holes that awaited them. Jonathan continues, I assured the guide that Rocky took a perverse pleasure in suffering of all kinds, and viewed discomfort as an adversary best ignored. Still, doubts lingered until they met, when Rocky's rough hands and KT's ropey physique showed him they were a pair accustomed to an honest life outdoors.

Rocky, in his sixties, resembled a snowy owl, short, with large eyes under a mop of white hair. Katie was about Rocky's age, slight, quiet, and highly observant. So yes, then you can pick up Owls of the Eastern Ice, A Quest to Find and Save the World's Largest Owl by Jonathan Slatt. We'll link it on our website. You can learn all about these largest owls, the endangered Blackeston's fish owl, which is allowed to brag about its nearly two meter wingspan. Wings as wide as your dad is tall.

Not me, not your internet dad, but like a real man dad. There's no premium on being silent because the fish can't hear you. Mm-hmm. You know, they drop down from either from a perch above the water onto there or like the Blackson's fish owl will oftentimes walk along the edge of the the shore or the or jump on rocks and then jump into the pool and grab the fish. Getting back to your observation, which is wonderful actually. Thank you. Owls have a couple of adaptations.

One is that, as you noted, they have these serrated edges. And that's caused. by the loss of these little hooks that are called barbues that most birds have that actually keep the feather l uh rakesy uh locked together. And they've lost that. And so people have thought that that gives the owls a silent flight, but there's some hypotheses that it actually has evolved to reduce the turbulence.

Oh behind the wing. And then they have another adaptation with it's these velvety structures over the tops of their flight feathers. That in fact is the one that's reducing the sound that they're making. And for more on this, you can please enjoy the 2017 paper, Features of Owl Wings That Promote Silent Flight.

which cites plenty of other research into owl stealth. And it notes that the large wings of these birds contribute to the noise reduction by allowing slow flight and the serrations on the leading edge of the wing and that velvet like surface. have an effect on noise reduction and they also boost aerodynamic performance. And it notes that the fringes at the inner feather veins as well as the fringed trailing edge of the wing reduce noise. So it's a combo of those two factors.

And like everything that is cool in nature, of course, engineers are like, how can we do that too? But it it might take like around sixty million years to get it dialed. Those two adaptations

coupled with the way they actually approach a prey, or in your case, they would f fly by you to go another place, they often launch themselves and then glide. They don't do the typical bird flapping and moving. Uh they will, of course, when they're flying distances, but when they're hunting or attacking something, they come in without flapping. So their turbulence is being reduced, their sound is being reduced.

And they're restricting their movements of their wings. So they're virtually silent in flight. I know a lot of people say, Well, I heard an owl. You know, fly by me and isn't that you didn't hear'em. What you heard was when they landed on the branch.

And the branches going up and down. Uh-huh. But that's what you heard. When you think about it, these things can go right past you and you will not hear them. And are they using that to sneak up on prey? Are they able with their giant, huge sausage eyes To see rodents scurrying and other crepuscular or nocturnal animals and they're just swooping down and picking them up? Is that how a lot of owls hunt? Well, we we call'em mostly perch and pounds.

predators. Mhm. When I've watched them attack prey, you'll see them look very intently at something. Of course, we often use mice to get them to come down where we can catch them. It's basically like watching them hunt. Uh it's artificial though, because we're putting some food out. But they'll often look intently and sometimes bob their head to focus in on what what it is. And once they realize They just launch themselves, come in, and then extend their talons and grab them.

But they can also relocate. So if they hear something and they think they see it and maybe they can't really focus on it because of the obstruction of vegetation or whatever, they'll fly to a different perch and then get another view of it. And once they're confident that they can catch this thing, they make the attack. We've noticed in doing these studies feeding mice to owls that some of them seem to prefer taking prey off the ground, others from branches or the size of a tree.

So we call this phenomenon when individuals get a search image for a particular type of prey. What do you want? And now of course owls, when you look at their diet, they're eating lots of things. But some of'em seem to be very adept at or prefer to take animals off of trees or off of bushes or off the ground.

They have their own preferences for how they might go about doing this. And I gotta ask, what's that field work like? Do you have a pouch full of live mice? Are they dead mice? Are you tossing'em in a field? Are you sticking a dead mouse on a tree. How do you figure that out? Well, what we do is usually use live mice to feed to them because We have had lures, that little toy store mouse that we pull along. But they seem to know the difference between something that's real and not real.

And as a result we well, Eric f figured this out, putting a live mice out there, and then they'll come down to catch it. And Over time we've developed different sorts of techniques. First some nits misnats and then Eric developed a capture pole and then we we made noose poles and various devices to catch him, pan traps, whatnot. And now it turns out the easiest thing to do is just catch him by hand. What? How? You put the mouse down, they come for the mouse and just snatch him by the foot.

Yeah. Are they so mad at you? You know, it's really interesting that when you catch an owl, they often will bill click. They pop their build together. And that's sort of an agitation display and maybe even a threat display as well. So one of the things that we realized, if you watch a pair of owls together, And this is one of the things that makes them so adorable to people, is that they often roost right next to each other and then they'll alloprene. What does that mean?

So that means that they preen each other. So they'll get up there and they'll preen their face. And we thought, you know, what if we did that? You know, we just preen their little faces and stuff like that. You know, they're because they're just bill snapping and struggling and trying to get away, and then you just go like that and you just start aloeprening their face and pretty soon they just relax.

You just think, ah, this feels so good. That's exactly what they're doing. Because you're simulating what we think it's Uh uh alloprinting serves a couple of functions. One is reinforcement of the pair bond between the the pair, and also it's feather maintenance. Because an owl can't be really maintain its feathers very well on its face. They can scratch and and so forth, but when they get the mate preening their face thicks up the feathers and so forth.

Uh are they mating for life most owls, or is it totally dependent on the species? Ooh, a little cliffhanger. Stay tuned until after the break to find out about owl romance. But first, let's donate to a cause that Rocky loves. which is the International Owl Center, which is in Houston, but Houston, Minnesota, and their mission is to make the world a better place for owls through education and research.

And they also have an international owl festival in March. Rocky and John Stratt were speakers last year. And they have a bunch of resources on their site about owls, bird rehabbers, even a World Owl Hall of Fame, which brings public recognition to the owls and humans that have done great things to make this world a better place for owls.

You can find out more at international owlcenter.org. So I'll toast to that and also donate to that. Thank you to sponsors of the show. Ikea presenter You da Förandring. Den går från vänner till rival. Svenska ostklassiker finns med på prickarna när du fyller år, på BB efter förlossningen och i vardagen när alltid precis som vanligt. En liten del av det stora och en stor del av det lilla. Herr gård präst och grevé.

Svenska ostklassiker för små och stora traditioner. Med ving kan du skrädda sig din resa, sol och bad, storstad eller kanske till ett paradis långt bort. Upplevelser som är lät att älska. Boka en semester du inte vill hem från. Se våra bästa erbjudanden på wing.se. Här kommer en liten hälsning från oss på AMF till landets alla byggarbetare. Ni som ser till att planer blir verklighet, ni som har noggrannheten som krävs, även på en byggnadsställning i Regn och Bås.

Ni reser skolor, sjukhus och bostäder och bjuter grunden som allt vila på. Tack för att ni bygger Sverige. Under tiden jobbar vi för att ni ska få en riktigt bra pension. Hälsar från pensionsballaget AMF. Det finns en första gång för all. Första hoppet från feman. Första tryckaren. Hej. Första sjutsen. Ska du med eller? Och inte minst. Bostaden. Eller vad är det? Det finns en första gång, föran. Nu har vi ett bost. För dig mellan 1835 som ska köpa din första bostad. Läs mer på svedbank.

Välkommen till en väldigt svensk bank! Okay, so I had just asked Rocky, are they mating for life most owls, or is it totally dependent on the species? Well, for most species, we we really don't know, but it it appears that most species maintain a long-term pair. I wouldn't say mate for life because they do in fact divorce. Oh They'll leave a mate and go to another mate. It very well might be that if if they're failing to nest one mate will leave and try to find an another net.

That still needs to be investigated uh more fully. But one of the few that we know does not mate annually seems to find new mates is a burrowing animal.

They will seek out new mates uh each year. What are those nests like? You know, we put up an owl box. before we realized that mostly barn owls like those and we already had some great horned, we were good to go on the owl. So now the great horned owls sit on top of the owl box. And they do their pounce and perch from there.

But what kind of nests do a lot of these owls have? Are they finding a hole in a tree? Are they building them out of sticks? Are they finding another abandoned nest? I know pigeons. suck at nesting'cause they don't really need to be good at it if they're on a cliff. But what about owl? Yeah, owls don't build their own nests. Oh. Your observation is correct. But they will seek several different kinds of uh nests.

as you noted, they will find and use old abandoned raptor nests, nests of ravens. They will sometimes nest in the crotch of a tree where there's accumulated debris, They will nest uh in witches' brooms. They'll nest in big cavities. if a tree is broken off of the top like an old growth forest, a lot of times older trees uh get weakened by disease or fungus and and a windstorm will break the top of the tree and then you know, ten or fifteen years of rotting, there's a shallow depression there.

and they will n nest inside that depression. Sometimes I nest inside a depression, sometimes Also, I thought Rocky was just being cute, but a witch's broom is a real thing. I did not know this. And when a tree has a pathogen or some wonky growth, it can grow this clot of weird little curly branches. They look like a bird's nest.

So much so that owls see it with their sausage eyes and they say, Hell yeah, I live there now. And they don't put any kind of material. They just whatever's there, they just lay their eggs on it. And of course great horned owls and some other owls will nest in cliff. just like these pigeons will. But the pigeons usually build a little flimsy nest. Mm-hmm. They're not great nest builders, but they do build a nest, whereas the owls don't.

And in your c in your situation, as you mentioned it, I was thinking, well, maybe the size of the hole in the box is not big enough for a green horn to.

Mm. That's a possibility. Typically, will you have owls that overlap in range or are they like one owl one pair of owls is enough?

for one place or they'll will they start eating each other if they're different species. Well you might be talking about two different things, but let's take these in in order. So if you're talking about the same species There can be adjacency and pairs and some small overlap in the home range, but they have inside that home range is an area that is defended, and we call that the territory.

And that's an exclusive zone. So they will exclude any other Alpair from coming in into that territory if if they know they're there. And that's one of the purposes of hooting is to announce the territory and to tell people stay out of here, this is my place. Leave. Get out. But then there's the other question about different species of home. And we have done research on this. And we find that owls that are syntopic that is occurring in the very same habitat.

can only coexist if they're eating different foods Or their different body sizes, which suggests that there's something going on with the trophic level or the way they force. So they have to be big enough difference in size. for them to coexist in the same habitat. But you know, a lot of times the little owls are taking their chance being in in the habitat of the bigger ones. Because they'll get eaten. Yeah, I was gonna say, like little little Cornish game hens to them.

I should people put up owl boxes? If someone wants to To have an owl in their yard. Sure. Yeah. What's the best way to do it? Yeah. Again, it depends on on where one lives, but very often in suburban areas, if there are sufficient trees There's often small owls around like pygmy owls. screech owls and you can entice them to live there. And very often holes are a limiting factor for these small owls.

So putting up nest boxes you very well might attract now. And of course if you live out in the country, then there's all kinds of fowls that you might be able to attract. And therefore you can put larger boxes, medium sized boxes and so forth. But you have to be careful about this because you put owls in proximity that live liable to eat each other, you might be doing something counterproductive. So be careful about what you're trying to attract.

Should you mount the box to a tree or is it better on a freestanding pole? Probably anywhere on a tree, but y if you put it on a pole or on a tree, it Often helpful. To place some kind of a barrier to that a raccoon or other animal can't go up the pole to get it. Mm. Because they if a raccoon climb up a pole or a tree and reach its little paw inside a And grab an owl at for dinner, it'll do that. Poor little baby owls. Are owls good parents?

They are wonderful parents. And uh this is one thing about owls, they have a strong division of labor between the male and the female. So typically the male owl is smaller than the female. There's lots of hypotheses about why there's this reverse sexual dimorphism, the the s males being smaller, the females being larger. Be that as it may, the male is primarily the provider of food. They go out and forage and catch.

prey, bring it back to the female who's sitting on the nest and and the female basically after she's laid the egg, she incubates them by herself and primarily broods the young. And the male brings her food. Short king. She only leaves the nest to defecate and to do feather maintenance and the like, or come out and receive prey.

Zach Peary, one of my colleagues that I work with at the University of Wisconsin, he had a graduate student, Sienna Zulu. And Sienna would climb up these trees and put a a night camera on the nest. and would determine what the prey was. And in this particular video, you first see a a male owl coming in and landing and depositing a a wood rat. And then the female coming from somewhere else and going into the nest and then you see the little baby pop ups up its head.

But normally what happens is the male will arrive at the nest with a a prey item and he'll give a soft call or a hoot or and the female will come out of the nest and then he'll fly over to her and she takes it from him and then she goes back in. And because the young are too small to really handle the prey, she'll tear it apart and feed'em bits. And and the things that they can't eat, like the skull, she just pops them down. A delivery for mom, breakfast in bed, fresh

Dead rodents when you've got fuzzy tiny screaming outlets, every day is Mother's Day. What co-parenting? So One time I had a project leader who was leading one of the project in Southern California in the San Bernardino Mountains, Bill LaHaye. And he he called me up and he said, I want to show you this nest. He said, Well, this female has not moved off the nest for like two weeks. And I said, Oh that's w pretty weird. Because oftentimes when you

feed the male a mouse to try to determine whether or not they have a nest because the male will take the mouse to the nest and you chase them through the forest while they twine to the nest and that's how we define the nest. Anyway, this female wasn't doing that. So we went out and looked at it and you could see the female's head, just the top of her head and this broken top tree, and her tail sticking up.

And we walked around around and looked at this and looked at this. And I says, you know, you ought to climb this the adjacent tree and just look in there and see what's going on. So Bill, being an expert tree climber, he scrambles up the tree and looks in and he says, I think she's dead. I said yeah. So he came back down and he put some s climbing spurs on and went up this Broken top tree, and he reaches in there, and this female had died, and the egg was in her breast.

So in other words, she starved to death, we think, while waiting for the thing and and she was so tenacious to well, this is what we're speculating. She didn't want to give up incubating that egg. And so if the if it was a bad year and the male couldn't bring her nest, she just hung on as long as she could and then it was too late. Uh the alternative of course is if she got some disease or something happened to her.

W you know, it didn't look like anything other than that she had starved to death because she was emaciated. So it was really it was sort of sad, but it but it gets to your point about being, you know, good parents. I mean, they are tenacious parents. They will take care of the young fellow.

So as we mentioned in the Lutrinology episode, which was a devastating expose on otter behavior, a mother otter might be on the brink of death because she's nursing offspring who are old enough to forage on their own and they just keep going back to the tea. And this is none of my business, but I'm pissed at those otter children. Also next week we're gonna talk more about spotted owl ecology and which owls in the world are the most threatened.

But how can you know right now if you are neighbors with an owl? Do you know you've got an owl nest around if you see pellets in a certain area? And also, why do they in s unlike all these other birds have to If you find pellets. That does not necessarily mean that there's an owl nest nearby, because an owl could be nesting somewhere else. and roosting there and depositing pellets at the root.

And a nest, side note, is where they warm and they feed them babies, but a roost can be a nearby spot that they like to nap during the day, just generally chill. It usually means that the nest is Somewhere in in proximity, but not necessarily all that close. And the other thing is about these pellets As you mentioned, the So I started thinking about what do you call it when you studied pellets?

You know? I don't know. Because see there's scatology, right? Well there's a study of feces. Mm-hmm. You know, and I started trying to figure this out, reading books and looking things up and couldn't found anything. Well, you know, and um I guess you could call it barphology. Yeah. Where they're barfing s these these pellets up. It's a yes from me. But let me back talk one second here is that pallets are cast by over three hundred species of birds. Oh. So it's not restricted to out.

So lots and lots of species do this, but the owls seem to form the biggest massive ones, and it turns out that the avian stomach has two parts. And one is a glandular part like our stomach, they call it proventriculus, and then the other part is the ventriculus, which is what we think of as is the gizzard. So you have like this real stomach and then this like grinding organ called the gizzard.

And all the soft parts get sort of digested and broken down in this stomach part and then move over to the gizzard where it's more finely ground up. Well, in the case of the owl, it turns out that the pH of their stomach acids is higher than a raptor, for example. So a raptor is like a pH of one point eight or something like that, and an owl is like two point five. And higher pH, remember, means it's a weaker acid. Confusing, I know. But that's enough.

of a difference that they cannot digest these big bones, the hair, and all that sort of stuff. So whereas a many of the typical raptors They digest a lot of the bones. They still cast pellets and stuff, but they'll digest some of the small bones. The owls don't do that. And so as the as the soft parts are being digested and moved to the to the gizzard, the other undigestible parts that can't be broken down are pushed to the top of the stomach and sort of compacted down.

And then once the digestion process is completed It has formed this little mat. Looks like a little turd, you know, about depending on the size of the owl, you know, the bigger the owl, the bigger the the pellet. And then they upchuck'em. They barf'em up.

People have speculated that this is a constant the time of it takes them to make this pellet and regurgitate it is probably related to the size of the meal that they get in there. And I actually think that in some circumstances if their pellet is already formed, And you offer them a prey. I've seen them actually look at the prey and then then start

Up chucking a pellet and then come down and get the one that you just put it out. They're like, let me make a little room. But they can't form it immediately. They're basically saying, Well, you know, let's get the show on the road here.

Can I ask you some questions from listeners? Are you doing okay? I know I've kept you already but So ask him. Visionary people, blurry questions. And thank you so much again to RJ Rocky Gutierrez for being on, not just this week, but next week as well. We'll have part two.

We have links in the show notes to find out more about Rocky and of course we post more research on our website. This will be at alleywar.com slash ology slash strigoformology. Next week we are back with all of your juicy owl questions like Parliaments, Barnes, Bard Owls.

if you should hoot at your owl friends, omens, folklore, what not to put in your yard, a homicide case that has baffled detectives and ornithologists alike, and so much more. So stay tuned and come back for that part two next week. And we are at Ollogies on Instagram of Blue Sky. I'm at Ali Ward on both. Smologies are shorter, kid-friendly episodes available wherever you find podcasts, just search Smology's S-M-O-L-O-G-I-E-S.

Ologies Merch has totes and shirts and hats at Ollogies Merch dot com. Thank you to patrons at patreon dot com slash ologyes for supporting the show. They also get first dibs on tickets for live events, which is another per for a dollar a month if you join. Thank you also to Erin Talbert, who admins the Olegies Podcast Facebook group. Aveline Malik makes our professional transcript.

Kelly Ardwire does the website, nocturnal and diurnal scheduling producer is Noel Dilworth, our Eagle Eyed Managing Director is Susan Hale. The pair of editors sharing the branch is Jake Chafee and lead editor Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn hooted out the theme music and if you stick around until the very end

Uh, you know, I might tell you a secret. I will tell you a secret, whether you want to or not. And this week it's that whenever I have to transfer files via an SD card from my recording device onto my laptop. I have to use a dongle, right? Because life isn't hard enough in twenty twenty five. But a little secret, I usually just rip the dongle out without properly hitting the eject icon. And I know one day this is gonna ruin my life, but I've gotten away with it thus far.

So feel free to either like soothe my soul and tell me it's fine, or you can scare me straight on this one. I appreciate it in advance. Okay, more owls, more Rocky. The owls are beautiful. Här kommer en liten hälsning från oss på AMF till er som arbetar när vi andras sover. Ni som hjälper gamla till toaletten på vårboendet, ni som kör en nästan tombus genom mörka gator och ni som går upp mitt i natten för att baka bröd till oss.

Och ni som asfalterar om erfyrande mörket. Tack för att ni får samhället att funka när allt annat är stilla. Under tiden jobbar vi för att ni ska få en riktigt bra pension. Hälsningen från pensionsbollaget AMF. Första tryckaren. Hej. Första sjutsen. Ska du medel? Och inte minst. bokstaden. Det finns en första gång Nu har vi ett pus. För dig mellan 18 och 35 som ska köpa din första bostad. Läs mer på svedbank.