Oh hey, it's your mom's neighbor who dresses up that ceramic goose on our porch. Ali Ward, I'm back with another episode fiery, one of ologies. This is one of those very very many years in the making episodes where as soon as I decided to make this podcast ology, so I was like, I got a hit up this expert and I put them on a list. This interview it's electric, okay, So fulmonology, let's get into it. Very
much a thing. It's the science of those streaks in the sky and it comes from the Latin word fulgaa, which means to shine or to flash. Also, if you have a fear of thunder and lightning, you're not alone. I'm looking straight at you, my dog Remy, and also my dear sister friend Shannon Feltis you have something that is called coronophobia. It's also inexplicably named astrophobia, brontophobia, and pnotrophobia.
So let's learn a little bit more about it. So kick your boots up, lean back on your porch chair, and enjoy some facts about thunder and lightning and storms and volcanoes and of course wildfires with lightning scientists and your favorite folmonologist Chris Gizzigi.
My name is Chris Gigi pronounce he He.
Did you grow up with with fires and lightning really on your radar on your doppler since you were a kid, or where did you start getting into this?
Well, it's you know, it's funny because California in general, a lot of people think, oh, yeah, California's kind of boring.
Maybe they got some earthquakes here and there too.
So growing up in Sonoma County, I really don't remember a lot of fire activity. We don't really get too much thunder, and it was one of those things where we're just like, oh, you know, at the time, being a firefighter would be cool. Maybe I'll be able to do that, you know, kind of macho and you know,
let's get out there. Yeah, bro, firefighting. It really wasn't until maybe later years of high school or I started thinking, ah, you know, that'd be kind of cool, and then you go to college and I'm like, wow, Actually, the science of this stuff is a lot more fascinating to me.
Ah. And so how much of your work deals with fire science and how much deals with lightning or is it kind of an equal amount.
It's kind of an equal amount.
My research in particular is more lightning and we look more at the electrical magnetic properties of it. Let's say we're trying to figure out a way to build more confidence in our lightning models for prediction, more projections, and then we relate that mostly to to a typical quote unquote would be fire season, which is usually your late
spring or summer months through fall. We come up with some sort of projection system to say, all right, these areas have high risk of lightning, and because during these months when these certain conditions are met, lightning caused fires could be issues here.
Oh okay, this is a huge issue, but we're gonna put a pin in it for a second and get to the basics of lightning. What does it look like, how does it work? And is the sky mad?
Bro?
What exactly is lightning? Where is it going?
Oh? So the story of lightning?
Oh yes, okay, So to kind of set a tone here, the way I think of the process of lightning happening is I think about all these little molecules and particles that are happening within the cloud and happening.
Within the atmosphere, and.
Are you know, flowing in the earth, And I always like to think of them as an emoji, where as little emojis running around with different smiley faces or positive charge and negative charges, and you know, and they have this goal in life, and that's to find find something of the opposite charge and connect with it and do this little dance, and then they go into the great beyond afterwards wherever that is, whatever they're doing, whatever they're
doing there. So lightning is it's a development of a certain cloud type called cumulatim miss clouds. And what happens is within these clouds, the clouds formed because we typically
have updrafts of air. Warm air rises, so we get updrafts, and as it rises, it runs into the altitude, so you get higher up and higher up it gets a little colder, and so as that air rises, it kind of cools and condenses and a little droplets form around, particulates, little ice crystals can form, and they're banging around in there, having a good old time, hitting each other, bumping, doing whatever. And and at that point you kind of you start
to build up like this static charge. It's electrostatic charge. It's in the clouds. As electrons start to get stripped or transferred from one to the other. And so during this process, eventually what happens is these clouds when they're starting to get ready, when they're priming themselves for a lightning event, they separate themselves. So the negative charges go down towards the bottom of the cloud and the positive charges go towards the middle of the top of the cloud.
And this is because what weather is, it's a neutralization process. So we're trying to get these electrons that are up in the cloud down to Earth and want to neutralize themselves at Earth, bring them back to where they belong, so they separate themselves up there, and then at the same time they're separating themselves in other clouds, or they're separating themselves.
At the ground.
So on the ground level you might have the electrons will actually get pushed down further to further lowers of the ground, which leaves nothing but a positive charge stuck at the surface. Just opposites attract like charges repel each other. So the electrons in the cloud are going to help push those down, those electrons in the ground down even further into the ground, and that leaves a nice positive
charge on the surface. So what happens then is once everything gets kind of built up, then those charges are gonna look to connect somewhere, and so sometimes they're gonna interconnect within the cloud. Sometimes they're gonna connect between one cloud and another, which is cloud to cloud, or sometimes they're going to try and connect with the charges that are on the ground, and that would be cloud to ground lighting.
Oh okay, So these ice particles are just having an airborne mashpit. Some are losing electrons, some are gaining them, and this tension builds and then the moshpit divides with the negative charges heading to the bottom. Now, as for cloud to ground lightning, electrons on the Earth's surface get pushed further into the ground. So positive charge are kind of simmering on the ground and they have to meet each other and then boom, lightning strikes to neutralize it,
and the mash pit goes wild. They love it, and then they're like, you know.
The ones coming from the cloud to the ground. What I picture is is after enough electrostatic charges has built up in the clouds, they're not ready to go, and you have something called step leaders and streamers, and these are kind of the leading molecule, the leading chargers that are getting out there and ready to go.
So these are step leaders that reach down toward the ground and streamers down below that reach up.
And so I picture these these little charges strapping on a helmet, putting on their goggles, and the step leaders are up in the cloud and they're shouting out at the streamers down in the ground, you know, step leader to streamer leader, step leader to streamer leader over streamer, two step leader, streamer two step leader, coffee dot, bring to engage, all right. When they turn around and they get all the other electrons riled up, Yeah, let's go. So then they throw on some heavy metal music and
start They gets for that. Yeah yeah, so they you know, and they take off and they the step leaders kind of the initiator of these lightning strikes, and so they take off towards the ground, and they have no idea where they're going. They have no idea where these other charges are on the ground because there's such a distance between them. They can only really communicate about fifty meters
or so. So that's why you start to see lightning in jagged forms, because it's these uh, these electrons trying to reach the ground that are trying to find the opposite charge.
But really can't.
So they shoot out intervals and they take this jagged path until eventually they connect with it and then they meet together and the streamers, so the charges on the ground will actually reach up sometime and try and meet them at a certain point.
Cool.
Yeah, Now, what about like dry lightning or heat lightning, the kind of lightning that we've had in California lately that has been sparking fires.
Yeah, dry lightning is it's basically just lightning with very very minimal.
To no precipitation.
So what happens is you get your typical thunderstorm build up, but the precipitation evaporates before it gets to the ground, and that's when you see clouds that are called virga, and virga is just just a formation, so it looks like stuff's coming out of the cloud, but then it evaporates and you still get lightning at the same time because there's such a build up of charge going on up there in the atmosphere.
Any How, hot is a lightning strike. I've read that it's potentially hotter than the sun.
Hotter than the surface of the Sun. So yeah, so it can reach up to like fifty to sixty thousand degrees fahrenheit. Oh my god.
Yeah, I know that's nuts. And so you've got that striking a dry hillside and it's just like a like tinder box.
Yeah.
Absolutely, So those are one of the things I look for in fire weather under certain types of red flag conditions is the possibility of dry lightning.
Okay, we're going to get back to fires in a bit, but first, what about counting lightning and thunder? We've seen it in a million movies. You count, you can do a calculation. You can know how far away the storm is, if it's coming or going. Is that flim flam or is that real deal?
No? Typically, you actually kind of can.
So the general rule is that you see a lightning strike and you count, and every five seconds is about a mile okay, yeah, And so if you're outside or whatever you want to know if it's safe to go out side, then you generally try and get to a point where you see lightning but don't hear any thunder.
Oh good to know. So it's far enough away where it's not going to come and get you. Yeah, does it usually want to discharge or connect with a charge that's higher up? Like, is that why there's lightning rods, or do trees get zapped a lot?
So the reason we have lightning rods or the reason that a very tall tree might be one of the worst spots to stand under or isolated tall trees is they're providing a path.
Of least resistance.
So when these storms come, these charges from the ground are able to kind of flow up into those places and connect with the lightning that's coming out of the atmosphere. Because they happen to be tall, the charges are able to meet a little bit earlier.
There.
We are about to get to listener questions, but before we do, we're going to hear about sponsors of the show who have some deals for you. Those deals make it possible for us to throw some cash at worthwhile nonprofits each other episode, and this week Chris asked that it goes to international relief teams whose mission is to alleviate the suffering caused by poverty and disaster around the globe.
So Jichang, keep doing good stuff, y'all. Now you may hear about some sponsors who enable us to not freak out about giving away money every week. All right, Questions from our loyal Patreon folks Okay, I'm going to dive in to the lightning round if he will correct and just whatever answers strike, you go for it the worst, Okay. Emily A wants to know is it true that thunder is the sound of lightning? And a few other people wanted to know first time question askers and boot quakers
Luna Lowry and Kate h why it's so scary? Why is thunder scary? Any idea? Is it a certain like frequency or is it just because it's so loud?
Well, I'd be right. Some might find it scary.
I would find it extremely fascinating and joyous, somewhat of an adrenaline Russia at certain moments. Yeah, but yeah, thunder is the sound of lightning because without lightning you don't have thunder, kind of.
Like we talked about.
And because lightning there's so much energy and so much heat that is created by lightning that energy, the air around it cannot expand fast enough, so pressure is shot out around these areas where lightning strike has just gone down and produces a shock wave, and that shockwave becomes a sound wave, and so that's what we hears thunder. It can be really scary because the ground is shaking, the airs rumbling, So yeah, I guess it could be scary.
A bunch of people. Sam Healey first time question asker JJ Pierce Chris Moore for some question Asker Rachel Dashiel and Asia Jaeger wanted to know about hair standing up during a thunderstorm, and Sam says, my shoulder length hair was standing completely on end once when I was standing in a field during a thunderstorm, and I found out
later that was not a good sign. I was fourteen, and so O forgive my ignorance, But if you're around something dangerous like a lightning storm, or does your hair just statically kind of do that.
Yeah, it's a reaction to the static that's in the atmosphere. So what's happening during a lightning event is you're producing something that's electric and magnetic, and there's electrostatic that's happening before these lightning strikes are coming, or as a storm
is approaching. So if there's a storm approaching, especially if there's that much build up of an electrical charge the static in the atmosphere, yeah, your hairs are gonna rise right on up, just like the old you know, rub a balloon on the carpet, put on your head and watch your hair go all over the place.
Does that mean you should run for cover somewhere, preferably not under a big tree that's by itself.
Yeah, you know, unless those are just your spidy senses tingling a little bit, i'd probably, you know, move because it's definitely a sign that there's something electrically going on in the atmosphere, and you don't want to be around when those when those lightning strikes come down.
Okay, a few people Metal and Lewis and Markshavaz, Metal and Lewis. Personal question asker want to know about volcanic lightning or wildfire smoke inducing lightning? Does that happen?
Oh? Yeah, absolutely so.
What you have is during a fire, especially, is fire's burning and it's releasing a lot of energy through heat and moisture. So much energy and so much heat. And you see this more often on really really hot fires
that are burning really really hot. We get something called pyroconvection, which is eventually that heat and that moisture starts to rise because hot air rises with the cooler air and kind of like a typical thunderstorm, as it arises, it starts to condense and it starts to form cumulus clouds or pyrocumulus clouds. And the crazy thing is that the updrafts of this hot air rising, the updrafts of these suckers can reach like up to one hundred miles per hour.
Oh my god.
Yeah, So there's just there's so much going in there. So if the fire continuously pumping that heat and that moisture into these cumulus clouds, they keep growing and growing and growing, and you get more vertical movement until eventually pyrocumulanimous cloud is formed, and then you start to get
kind of that charge the charge separation. You get the banging around of those those particles up there produced from the ash and from the smoke that allow the moisture to kind of condense on them, which then helps create the passing of charges. Like we talked about, you'll get lightning from that, or you can get lightning from that, and it's very similar kind of with volcano. It was because volcanoes so much heat and they're releasing all that
gas and the ash material creating these really dense smoke plumes. Ooh, so it's really cool. Yeah, pictures of volcanic lightning are actually really sick. I don't know if you or anybody out there listening has ever seen pictures of volcanic lightning if you haven't looked it up, because.
Yeah, I looked it up and it's true. Volcanic lightning pictures are hella suite and they look like if a mountain had a midlife crisis and decided to become a heavy metal disco like smoke machine, strobe lights danger like if you looked through the plumes of ash, there has got to be a yetty in there doing a guitar solo. I have just a couple more questions from listeners because I know I'm just I literally we could go on
for hours, okay. Elizabeth Edwards and Rachel and Maria Joora Vivillah Elizabeth Rachel, both first time question askers, wanted to know a little bit more about like what percentage of wildfires are caused by lightning strikes globally and also are these wildfires changing because of climate change? And should we be using more indigenous land management to kind of prevent the big burns.
I've been waiting for a question like this, ha ha, Yeah, we know climate's going to come into it. So yeah, I'm not quite sure exactly what the global statistics are.
In the US. I know.
Roughly eighty to ninety percent of fires are caused by humans and then the other percent caused by lightning, so ten to twenty percent. And we actually don't mind lightning cause fires unless they're during events such as the one that we just had here in California, or unless it's a fire itself producing some sort of lightning activity, because a lot of the light cause fires that happens tend to happen in remote areas where we're trying to get
around to this. Okay, if it's happening in an area far off somewhere in the mountains, let it burn, let it, let it ravage the fuel and take over.
So Chris says that lightning caused fires really become an issue when they're related to an event like the one we had recently here in California, where there were hundreds of them at once, which with new weather patterns and droughts and warmer, drier weather, may happen more often. Okay, questions I always ask at the end, what is your favorite thing about your work or about lightning, or what keeps you just gives you butterflies.
I would have to say just the fascination of it and seeing how things are constantly changing and seeing how it's impacting society is a big motivational factor because we know what's at risk, we know what changes might be coming about, we know that they may not be good, and so we have a real opportunity to do something. We have a real opportunity to help an industry seek some sort of answers. Get out there and look at fire, tornadoes and fire a world. We get to see lightning
storms shoot down from the sky. We get to go out there during some of these storm events, which I know told people you shouldn't do. It's those little bits in that field work that's extremely extremely exciting.
Ugh.
I mean, what is more exciting than something that is hotter than the sun? Seemingly random, but science can explain it. I mean that's like, what's more exciting than like bolts of electricity coming from the heavens?
That's rat oh I know, right, yeah, it's super.
Rat nom jeez, So ask lightning quick people, thundering questions, because otherwise the facts will always just be a kind of a little cloudy. Now to find out more about Chris. You can see the links in the show notes, also linked as aliward dot com slash Smologies, which has dozens more free kids Safe shorter episodes to blaze through. Thank you Mercedes Maitland of Mainland Audio and Zeke Rodriguez, Thomas and Jarrett Sleeper of mind Gem Media for editing those.
And since we like to keep things kind of small around here, the rest of the credits are in the show notes. But before I go, I like to give just a small piece of advice, and this week it's that I had to skip a birthday party because I was really sick and that was not fun. But the good news is is that there's going to be another birthday party next year, plenty more of other people's birthday
parties before that. But remember, you only get one body, so you gotta let it rest when the doctor tells you to, So don't worry.
Healing.
It's just part of living. And I got to do it too, Okay, I'll gotta go to it right now. Bye Bye.
A Knowledge.
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