Pelicanology (PELICANS) with Juita Martinez

Oh hey, it's that lady in the park just staring at pigeons, trying to imagine what's on their minds. Ali warred back with more ologies to gulp into your mouth pouch as we explore and just get to love pelicans. So I'm going to keep this intro swift as I can. I just want to say thank you to everyone on Patreon supporting this show. Thanks to everyone rating and subscribing, sharing the show, leaving reviews like this week, Blaise Fowler says,

I don't know.

I don't think So anyway, I started following this ologists recently on Twitter because of a really, really wonderful movement called Black Birders Week, and Blackbirder's Week officially kicked off May thirty first. It runs through June fifth, with hashtags like birding while black, ask a birder, post a bird, black woman who bird? And It was launched in part as a reaction to an event that occurred in Central

It's amazing.

It's opening eyes to birds and to systemic racism we can continue to try to understand and dismantle. So Blackbird's Week has already been a huge giant success. The group who organized it is black af in Stem. They've gained almost twenty thousand followers in a week. You can follow them at black af in Stem follow everyone they follow. There have been write ups and newspapers on Blackbird's Week. Twitter feeds have been a buffet of bird photos and

I mean on the inside, like very deep.

Maybe you would know that you're going to know this better than I would. Are you a pelicanologist? Have you ever used that word?

I actually have never used that word, But starting from today, I'm actually going to change my Twitter bio.

I checked and she changed her Twitter bio to read PhD student hashtag dinosaur flops equals brown pelicans plus Pelicanology. I was so excited to talk about pelicans with you, and I went to go look to see, like what the genus was of pelicans.

Yeah, actually the genus is Pelicanus. Okay, yeah, Pelicanus Pelicanus.

I mean it has a ring to it, doesn't it though, Yeah, how.

Have you been studying pelicans? So this year would be my third year, and how did you how did you get into it?

Have you always been into birds or has it been wildlife in general?

Yeah, so it's always been wildlife, And I'm actually like prettying you into the bird world. I would say.

I worked with quite a few different species, from like shrimp to microbes, and then I switched to frogs, went back to porcupines what and then worked with butterflies for a summer, and then I worked with fifth to sixth graders with Samitteo outdoor Ed and then I.

Think if sixth graders is just like a like another kind of creature.

Sorry, I did not see.

And then I ended up working for Richardson Bay Audubon in the Bay Area, and that's what really got.

Me into birds. I knew.

I went to go to grad school and I was pretty set on getting my PhD. And my advisor which he's my advisor now, had made this post about brown.

Pelicans and it just clicked, and I was like, I have to apply.

Honestly, I feel like it was luck because we both clicked, and then I was really interested in the project and everything that he sought out to do with the pelicans I had already done prior.

Oh well that's handy. So what was the post that she saw?

So it started off talking about restoration, and what restoration means is we're trying to create habitat in a way that it was in the past. And I was currently working on a restoration project and I had worked on restoration projects prior to that, and it was also using something called camera traps, and camera traps are basically motion censored camera is that normally hunters would use, but we're now using it to basically.

Spy on brown pelicans and their babies.

And I had used camera traps to also spy on porcupines two years earlier. I like, I know, so nowadays, like all these things are so like common to me.

It's my everyday life. So I love telling my people, like, wait, that's not normal, Jumita.

I just love the idea that there's a porcupine who's like, I swear someone's spying on us, and their partner's like, no one's spying on us.

You need to calm down.

And meanwhile, you're there like in a bush, just like looking at what they're doing, being like we are spying on you.

Yeah, we get some pretty cool shots of them just looking really weird at the camera, like what is that thing doing there?

Just admiring you. So before heading to Louisiana to become a doctoral fellow, Juta got her bachelor's in zoology with a minor in wildlife management from Humboldt State University.

I was very adamant that I was going to become a veterinarian up until I really learned what it took to be a veterinarian and how much blood was involved mm hmm, and I realized I'm too screamish for it.

So I was like, oh, I have to go down the research route now.

And the NSFREU program was the first experience that I had with any kind of science ever, and that really was like my foundation.

Okay, if you're like huh. NSFRU is a National Science Foundation Research Experiences for Undergraduates program which pairs undergrads with different research programs, and it also gives the undergrads a stipend and in some cases assistance with travel or housing. So that is the NSFREU.

Program and with the NSFRU program, which all undergrads, I highly recommend out there for you guys to apply, and I was basically doing environmental toxicology work. So that was my beginning, but it gave me a really good foot in the door and understanding like what I really liked about science and what I wasn't so interested in but was still really important, such as lab work. I definitely enjoyed the field aspect a little more than I did the lab work.

As a field tech, she gathered data and samples and studied everything from frog calls to those porcupines to what lives in shrimp cuts, which in one case included antibiotic resistant bacteria as she discovered in her junior year.

Which actually landed me my first publication, which was wild because never in a million years if anyone told me that would happen, I'd be like, no, there's no way.

That's amazing. How did you celebrate?

I actually, I'm pretty sure I worked like a full shift that so I don't think I actually celebrated, Like now that I'm looking back, I don't think I ever like I internally celebrated, even though I knew it.

Was a big deal.

Yeah you can still there's like no statute of limitations on celebrating. You can get a piece of cake tonight if you want to.

Well, I guess I have to do it now.

Yeah, okay, I looked it up in this first paper published remember still as an undergrad, is called Exposure of the grass shrimp Palao Monetes pugio to anti microbial compounds, Effects associated vibryobacterial density and development of antibatic resistance. It was published in October twenty fourteen. It is never too late for cake.

Yeah, it was a very proud moment for sure. That was what I knew. I definitely wanted to pursue this path. And I ended up working with porcupines right after that for two years. And then I ended up working with my first like restoration project after graduating from my undergrad and that was with the island marble butterfly. And they're endemic to this one little island off the coast of Washington called San Juan and I got to spend a whole summer on that island basically rearing butterfly. A.

Oh my gosh, that's a dream, like an actual dream.

It was. It was pretty great.

What were you like as a kid, were you like an indoor bookworm. Were you outside trumping around getting your feet money?

My parents thought there was something wrong with me because all I wanted to do was watch snails, little suckers like I had like a weird fascination with like snails, and at one part of one point in my life, I wanted an ant farm. I was basically outdoors all the time, trying to basically observing wildlife as many as I could in Silver Lake, which is not.

The most wildlife friendly area, as you know, so I had to get really creative with what I could find in the yard.

So from La to La Los Angeles to Louisiana, from a childhood gazing its nails to getting a PhD. In pelicans and now what about brown pelicans? First off, stupidquestion, what is a pelican? Is a pelican only the kind that have the purse attached to their face.

I've never actually heard someone say that. That is awesome. I love that description of it.

So a handbag for a mouth they do, that is a good one. I love it.

Yes, So all pelicans have a purse, which is better known as a googl ar pouch, and that's what helps them survive.

That is how they catch their food.

Gool art means throat in Latin. So what google ark pouch is a pelican face purse, That's what it is.

Brown pelicans specifically actually plunge dive, so from about thirty feet or so up in the air, they will spot a school of fish and then just dive down and use that pouch to basically scoop up all the fish. It's in my purse.

And what do they do with all the water that they also scoop up?

So if there's other birds around, such as gulls that try to steal the fish from their mouths, they will just slightly open their build and let the water like seep out until there's just fish in their pouch.

Why do they need so many fish? This is what I can't understand because they're kind of big birds, right, But other big birds they catch a fish, they catch a thing at a time. But pelicans are like in it. I feel like they have the best equipment in the game. Like, why do they need to catch so much fish?

I would think it depends on the season. So if they're trying to feed their chicks, they have about a maximum of three chicks. So if you think about a pelican they're about sixteen pounds, which is quite a bit of weight. And on top of that, they have to feed themselves have enough energy to fly around and catch the fish, but then they also have one to three mouths to feed. They're going to need quite a bit of fish for that. And these pelicans are born completely naked and with their eyes shut.

I'm naked, aren't.

So they're completely reliant on their parents for quite a few months.

And then what about their wingspan? Because the sixteen pound bird's pretty big? How big are the wings to keep it aloft?

It's about six feet, which is taller than me. Oh that's huge. Yeah, that's like a condor size.

Right, Yeah, it's a good social distancing size.

Oh my god. That needs to be your new campaign.

Is everyone's stay one pelican wingspan away from each gends?

Oh my gosh, so sixteen pounds six feet?

Because are they all inland or I mean, are they all golf or or coastal or are they inland too?

So we have two species in North America. We have the brown pelican and the white pelican. And actually the brown pelican is smaller than the white pelican about ten pounds or so. And the pelican stays on the coastline, like up and down the West coast and then throughout the Gulf of Mexico and up to North Carolina Ish and the white pelicans, on the other hand, you can't see them on the coast, but they breed inland.

How many pelican species are there in the world. I looked it up. There are eight, in case that ever comes up in a game of pelican trivia.

And now you call them flute dinosaurs, dinosaur.

Fluff, dinosaur blues, aren't they really funzy? Okay? So there's like this middle stage.

They're born naked and then they start getting these little pin feathers and they get their down feathers first, and that down feather is what sparked the hashtag. So down feather is the insulating part of their body and it's really soft and fluty. And so when you're holding a kind of ba repelican that just has down feathers, they're pretty fluefy and I feel very lucky.

So you've gotten to hold them. Yes, So we have a project because.

Louisiana is losing land at a very rapid rate because it's sinking and the same level is rising. So these islands that are perfect habitats for these pelicans to raise their youngs are actually getting overtopped and just completely disappearing. We don't really understand what happens to pelicans once their islands disappear, because their instinct is to come back to

So apparently only thirty percent of pelicans survive their first year of life. Only two percent make it to age ten, but some some have been known to live until their forties.

So some are out there.

There's a gen X Pelican listening to britpop. But how do they tell who's who?

So my lab does orange bands, and other labs that study pelicans use different color bands, and these color bands are really large, so we can see them from really far away without having to disturb the birds.

Oh that's nice.

When I was looking at baby pelicans on your Twitter, I myself had an impulse to want to give them one tiny kiss on their heads.

Is that a normal impulse for a person, I would say yes.

But if you ever come down to Louisiana and come out to the islands with me, I think you will be satisfied just by holding them, because I will say, they might be flufy, but they're also very stinky. So a hug a hug is as far as I usually want to go with it.

That's good.

I know that it is like not a good idea to put my mouth on wildlife. For the wildlife's sake, Do not put your mouth on wildlife. The wildlife does not want you to. Also, I looked at the flufes and they look like what would come out of the dryer, like in the lint hatch after washing a load of brand new fluey towels. So picture lintball but with big, clappy, flappy face parts. But when they're born, they are indeed featherless.

And the gular pouch or the purse is so tiny on the baby picks and they're just oh my gosh. It gets me every.

Time when you're talking about doing restoration work to make sure that they have a home that they can come back to, or that they have habitat that they can inhabit. How do you do that if you're up against things like sea levels rising and like land sinking?

What do you do? So right now Louisiana's being restored, but not by me.

They actually have agencies such as the Coastal Protection and Restoration Act and different groups of people that come out here and basically perform something called dredging. So they put in these pipes basically under the ocean level, and what they do is they pump a bunch of sediments from the ocean floor.

Onto these islands.

WHOA, So we're basically just building land from the ocean floor.

We're just putting it up. And these pipes go for miles. And the latest restoration project, I believe, took about five months to complete. Five months. Yes, they started in yeah, right, But there's other restoration projects that took two years, so this was a pretty quick one. Five months.

Man, I have laundry that I haven't done in five months, Like I have home projects that I have not done in five months. To build whole islands when you are tracking then I mean, can you see on a year to year basis any any change or improvement.

Yes, So some islands have been restored and some have not. And what my research aims to do is to compare the Pelican populations on these two different sets of islands across coastal Louisiana. And our preliminary data is telling us that there is a larger population on restored island, which means the restoration is working and the billions.

Of dollars is not being wasted. Yeah.

And we also found that chicks are more likely to reach that age where they can fly away and fend for themselves on restored islands versus those that are born on restored islands, which is really helpful because no one's actually looked at that yet.

How did you kind of start to discover that. Was there a moment when you were crunching data where you started to say, like, oh wait a second, I'm seeing a difference here.

Yeah, So that was just one of my questions that I had because I thought it would be interesting to see how restoration affects these populations, because when you're restoring an island, you're changing the habitat completely from all the different insects I might be on it, and the different plants, because when they deposit all this sediment from the seafloor, you're burying any vegetation that was there priorca This vegetation is very important for the pelicans to build a nest on.

That must have been an amazing discovery. Yeah, I'm really excited about it. I'm excited for the pelicans too, Okay, with good reason. This blew my mind.

Because this potentially gives them a fighting chance in the future. We know how to save their nesting habitats.

How are their numbers like? When?

When did they start to maybe take a dip?

So by nineteen sixty three, brown pelicans were completely extinct from the state of Louisiana.

Yes, due to DDT. So if they're if they keep laying eggs and the eggs keep getting crushed, or if the nest keeps failing, they'll actually leave the area. That's it. I'm out of here, oh man.

And a brown pelican is a state bird. So for the state to not have brown pelicans. Did it really make sense?

Yeah, that's aye.

There's so there was this huge push to re establish the population here, and the way that they did it was they actually brought a little over one thousand brown pelican chicks from Florida, so all of the pelicans are for the most part, all of the pelicans in Louisiana right now are descendants of the one thousand or so Florida population.

That is nuts.

So they were Louisiana is like, we either have to change the state bird or we have to get more pelicans in here immediately.

People, yes, and they did the ladder, which I'm glad to say that it was a huge success and it took a lot of effort and I'm so happy that everyone involved like did their part. And right now we're just trying to maintain their population and make sure it doesn't like decrease anymore. And they're doing pretty good right now.

Okay, so what happens if you take a Florida pelican and you move it to Louisiana. What if they don't like Louisiana's fish menu. Well, Jueta is clabbing with the Nelson Lab at the University of Louisiana to figure out their favorite fish, and it turns out their diet is ninety eight percent men Hayden, which is a silvery forked tail oily filter feeding fish. Now, they're also called bugheads because of a parasitic isopod that eats it takes over for its tongue. The world is crazy, but men hayden

Up a seat to this feast that is a school of man hayden.

How can they see from this guy? I mean, I realize they're pelicans. They're very good at this. But like they're cruising along, right, they have this thing flapping in the wind. Their face is flapping around. I'm picturing it, but it actually gets tucked, right, I.

Don't I don't know if tucked is the word, I would it's not necessarily.

Swaying like I'm picturing get like a like a windbreaker. I don't know why, Like I'm trying to picture like what it feels like? Is it like leather or denim or skin? These are questions that one can ask a pelicanologist.

What do their bills or that pouch? Like what is it?

Do you have you ever touched it? Like what does it feel like?

It basically feels like saggy skin, like extremely saggy and rikle, and it's really flexible. That seems so cute.

There has to be like an animated pelican that gets it wrong or right. How do you feel about pelicans in like pop culture?

I mean I've seen like pick art photos of the.

And I'm like they try to get the pouch right, but it just looks like a new shape. But in Louisiana especially, I think most people really value the pelican. Like we could find them on our basketball team, the.

Push Temple here. The Pelicans number five in the NBA at fast break points favorites. I really like Howdy States just really cherishes the brown pelican.

In case you ever need to brag about a Pelican, just know that they can dive bomb fish at forty miles an hour, and their beaks, which have been unchanged for like thirty million years, slice the water to handle that speed and that velocity, and that pouch I read acts like a little parachute underwater to help slow them down. So essentially they're fighter jets, but cooler and smellier.

And what are their nests like?

So their nests they prefer to nest on taller shrubs because Louisiana floods quite often, so if they're on like taller vegetation, the chances of their nest flooding is smaller, and they tend to use sticks. So they're maybe like two and a half feet in diameter, pretty large nests, maybe a little smaller now.

I'm trying to think. I've never actually measured of pelican nests, but they're pretty big.

We're currently using drones to see we can get accurate nest counts, and you can definitely see the nests from a drone.

Oh, what is it like working in the field. You have to suit up and like full rubber waiters. What is your gear like if you are a pelicanologist?

Okay, when I first was starting, I like refuse to wade in from the boat a minute. We have enough light, We get in the boat, drive an hour to our field site. Most of our field sides are kind of far, and we have to park the boat offshore because the tides can go out and then our boat will get stuck on land, which has happened. It's not pleasant because Louisiana only has one tide, so for your boat to get unstuck, it's basically takes twenty four hours.

This is called a diurnal tide. What weird? Okay, so what happened?

Oh no, So we had to call the water sheriff. Oh it gets worse. Oh no, So the water shaff comes. He puts the rope on our boat. His boat isn't big enough or strong enough to get our boat out of the sand.

The sun is setting really fast now and we're completely out of light. At this point, you're going when a tug boat comes and both of them together got our boat out. But our boat didn't have any lights. Oh no, and it's kitsch black, so we had one. We had no idea where we're going because we can't see anything. So the boat happened to have a handlight.

So for about an hour and a half I had to hold the handlight up so the field tech who was driving the boat could follow the sheriff back to dry land.

How is the boat? What kind of boat is it? This boat was okay, this boat was actually sixteen feet and it's the safety boat for research vessel. Oh my god, so it's kind of not a real boat. Oh no, you're on a lifeboat.

Yeah.

Basically we have since upgraded to a real boat though, so I'm pretty happy about that. Oh my god.

Okay, so you were like I don't want to wait in from the boat. Have you changed methods?

Now? Are you like it's worth it just to wait in from the boat? Oh? Yeah, okay.

Wait, so I would wait and I would just wear waiters versus now I just go in chockos like I just don't care anymore.

What is Choco? Wait? Sorry, what's a Choco? Wait? You've never heard of Choco's? No? No, they sound delicious, But no they don't. They're a sandal brand. I know. I didn't. I've heard of crocs. They're not crocs though, right.

No, I have to send you a pair of chacos now, Oh my gosh, where you live in Los Angeles?

Oh my god, I'm gonna look this up. What is it? You?

A pair of chacos the one that deserves them. I don't know what they are. Oh okay, these are like tivas, but apparently more durable and badass. And they were invented for river sports and a lot of cool scientists where them in the field, and I went down a rabbit hole on their site. Just FYI just imagining myself in chacos a summer evening, trying to distinguish what frogs are singing into the dust.

I've never heard them.

Then they sound like Choco tacos, which I have had.

Have you ever had a Choco taco? No?

Oh my god, Okay, a Chaco taco is like a it's like an ice cream sandwich, but it's in a waffle shell that looks like a taco, and then inside there's ice cream and then it's covered in chocolate. It's a Choco taco. WHOA, that's a lot used to Choco taco. Yeah, I'll send you Choco's the.

Shoes and you sent me Chaco. Sorry, this is now an episode on what field Biole'll just wear? I apologize.

I had questions, so now you just have like an amphibious shoe that you're like, I'm going in.

Yeah.

They are the most hearty issue, Like I love hiking in them, swimming in them.

I take them everywhere with me. Basically they last a really long time and they dry really fast. Oh that's amazing shoes.

So you have now adjusted where you are, you know, like how to get in, how to get out.

Is summer a big field work time for you or is it spring? Yeah?

So we basically work from February through the end of July. Oh my god, it's pretty long, especially if you're taking classes, which I just took my last class ever this past semester.

Pretty excited about it.

She will be pelicanologist doctor Martinez in about five semesters for two and a half years. We're talking about birding. Now, you said that you weren't necessarily a burder before this, but pelican watching has kind of opened you up to the world of birding, right.

Yes, that's where basically started.

And then after COVID happened, I kind of became this amateur.

Birder, Like I.

Actually go out with my binos and my field guide and I really try to identify these birds and it's so much fun and I just never did it before because I don't know what I was doing with my bide.

I mean, birding is, from what I understand, like addictive in the way that like a really great game can be.

Yeah.

I actually woke up at six thirty because somebody on E Birds said they saw painted bunting at this one place at six thirty. So I was like, okay, as long as I like go at six thirty, you know, get there around that time and go to this one place, I totally see it.

It's totally gonna be there. And it was not. I walked around the whole trail, couldn't find it. And actually two weeks ago, I think I walked the same trail with a couple of isolating friends and my housemate and we found it. You did yeah randomly around noon, not six am. It was new oh man, And it was just sitting there singing, and it was the best moment.

What does that feel like when you realize it that's the bird that you've been looking for, like when you get a win like that.

I screamed and scared my housemaids. I like ran out of the living room, jumping, screaming, like clapping my hands and it was the best feel like.

Do you take pictures or do you look through binoculars? What's the way to do it?

I do both, but I mostly prefer to take photos because I can definitely have a nice, solid id and I'm not that great of a bird yet, so I can't just be like, oh, it's totally that. So I prefer to take photos. So I have some evidence.

My sister just started to do some birding, and I can tell you're like, her texts start to be all bird pictures and you're.

Like, nice, Oh my gosh, yay, team bird over here.

So my sister Celeste is starting to get into bird IDs in this past year. My friend Sarah has picked it up too. She is birdie girl La on Instagram. She takes great pictures and as white women, we have a different and a privileged experience of birding that black people do not. And hashtag Black Birders Week is making that discussion herd.

So basically, this entire week is dedicated to amplifying and basically posting on Twitter, Instagram, and even some live streams sessions. We are trying to showcase that black people are utilizing outdoor spaces and these spaces should be safe.

For everyone, including us.

The event that sorry this was there was a black burder who was just standing up for the law, and the person that he asked to just follow the rules basically utilized his race against him. And we just wanted to showcase that there are black burders as well as major enthusiasts and naturalists out there who utilize the space. And we hope that from other people seeing us out here that this will just be normalized and things that occurred with that incident don't happen in the future.

A lot of burgers might worry about making sure that they bring water or sunscreen or an extra phone battery pack, but black birders have an extra checklist.

Sometimes when I'm outdoors, I try to make sure my field.

Guide is visible so no one thinks that I'm doing something with Bino's that other than looking at birds like I'm promised, I'm not spying on you. I'm really just looking for.

This one bird as you're a porcupine or yeah, but that is something that is I've heard that from different field scientists and as someone who doesn't quite get questioned if I'm in a park or if I'm looking for bugs or you know, that's a privilege that I wasn't aware of until it was brought up by people who don't have that. It's just such an important conversation to have.

You know. Yeah, we are.

Really hoping that this event will encourage discussion and dialogue, that different cultures and races can really just work together, and that we can understand each other's viewpoints. And even though we are underrepresentative in the outdoors, we're still here.

I'm so glad that Black af and Stem organizes Blackbird's Week. Look up the hashtag on social media. You will see gorgeous bird photography, just stunning, awesome, rare bird species spotting tips. There's binocular recommendations of you need them. There are field stories and of course discussions about making sure black and indigenous and people of color folks feel welcome and included

Because you don't really need equipment, like God, para binals is great, but you can also see a cardinal firm for example, like just with your naked eye. And I think it's a really good gateway for people to get out there and like really interact with the wild bases around them.

Absolutely.

Yeah, And I hope more people pick up birding, like even it was just sitting in your backyard and watching birds.

Do you have time? Do you mind getting asked patron questions? Oh, mash, yeah, bring Audie. I'm so excited.

Okay, So before we get to your questions, a few words about sponsors who make it possible for ologies to donate to a cause of the ologist choosing each week, and this week, Jamita and all the folks at Black af and Stem decided on Backyard Basecamp dot org, which is inspiring Black, Indigenous and all people of color across Baltimore City to find nature where they are and empowering them to explore further.

And this organization is awesome.

It was launched by Ata Wells, who is a pediatric nurse with a passion for culturally relevant nature education and started off with nature walks just in the neighborhood and now Backyard Based Camp also offers garden consultations and educator training and habitat discovery programs and more. They are awesome, so check them out and consider donating. That is backyard based camp or and that donation to them was made possible by sponsors of the show, who.

You may hear about. Now, Okay, your pelic questions.

There's a lot of pelican questions. Okay, this is a question that I think I got the most. Then Elle McCall put it, well, the spine thing out of their throats, please tell us everything, and Evan June and Angela Manuel and will play with I said, yes, please, yes, yes, I'm dying to know. Okay, just to let you know how big a deal this Patreon question was. I'm going to read off all of the names of people who asked it first names only, because we got to make

Spines through their mouths? Is that real?

And Francesca says, learning about the pelican spine thing is pretty much up there on my list of horrors. So what a pelican opens its mouth wide, what appears to be an inversion of its final column occurs?

What?

Yeah, So what's happening with their spine out of their throats?

Oh my gosh, I totally saw that.

So it's only like part of their it's like basically their neck vertebrae. So they when they're doing that, they're actually just yawning. Yeah, yawning slash stretching. So while I'm taking my camera chat photos them, that actually happens all the time. Really, I record it in my data sheet as yawning.

Oh my god? What other what other things are in your data sheet?

Like like yawning, like eye rolling, farting.

Like what do you have to to shut down?

I basically write down any and all behavior that I see, so everything from feeding. You can actually tell when a pelican chick is being fed because they're going.

To feed straight out of the pouch. So the baby chick's head is in the parents' big pouch basically picking out fish.

And one more thing on that vertebrae coming out of the neck.

It's actually just their.

Neck showing through the bottom of their pouch when they yawner, when they sit weird and corvett thanatologist doctor Kayley Swift recently made a video involving a vacuum and a coat hanger in a condom, explaining this visually but essentially. No, their spine isn't coming out of their neck. It's just kind of like pushing through the bottom of their pouch normal.

Something else I record is if there is any neighborly conducts happening, so they'll sometimes bicker with one another. David's stop acting like a disgruntled pelican.

They're pretty territorial over their one little nest spot.

Well.

Evan Jude, a patron, asked, why are they such huge jerks? And I feel like, Evan Jude, what did the pelican do to you?

Like? Are they kind of feisty? They're feisty with each other. I will say the adult.

Pelicans are a little feisty, okay, And sometimes there's like silbling rivalry, but usually I don't see that much of it.

Okay. I looked up video of this, and sometimes these little dinosaur flops use their long bills to bite each other's bills, and it sounds like clack and a bunch of rulers together, But it looks like when my sisters and I would fight over Barett's and slap each other like little t rex bitches. Diane Pete wants to know do pelicans chew their food or do they just swallow it?

So they just do one big, big gulp. I'm sure if there's multiple fish in their pouch, though, they'll probably do a few big gulf They don't chew on anything, so it's whole fish that there swallowing and regurgitating for their young to eat.

Do they regurgitate it? Is it like a slurry? No, it's actually a whole fish. Oh yeah, dang, Okay, I thought it. I was for sure. I thought that was gonna be like a fish smoothie. But it's just like.

Loop, just like taking a granola bar right out of your own stomach.

Yeah, basically.

Okay, So this next question was on the minds of Patron's pacy sisterson first time question asker John Cruise, Ashley Curtin, Diane p Adrian Hollister. First time question askers that Wee Wang, Gary Jungling, Madeline Anderson, and Nat Matthews Graves who phrased it, could they fit a whole human person in those peaky beaks? So everyone wants to know how big a snack can it snack on? What's the biggest thing that they can eat?

As long as it fits in their pouch, they can basically swallow it. I saw a photo and I can't remember who took this photo, but basically there was a.

Flounder and a pelican's pouch. Those are the big flat ones, right.

Yeah, Oh my, it's pretty big, like encompass the whole pouch. And I'm really sorry to the person who took that photo that I can't remember their Twitter handle.

Yes, of course I found this photo for all of us, and the credit goes to professional photographer and Twitter Mark takes photo. And it is a head on photo of an open mouthed pelican and its face purse is occupied entirely by a Halibit kind of like if you stuffed a subway sandwich into a loafer twelve inch subway sandwich spectacular. Kelleen Sachs asked if they move their spine to their mouths to cool off, like, is that a yawn or is it a thermoregulation thing.

No, it's not a thermal regulation thing.

They it's definitely a yawn and it's just their neck vertebrae showing through their pouch because they've moved their heads backwards. And they actually therma regulate by just going into the water. Oh yeah, so yeah, or they stand up. That's how they help their chicks thermal regulate is by creating shape.

Oh that's so sweet of that, because.

They're kind of big, so they can do that, right. Yeah.

This next one was asked by my pal Greg Wallack and Megan Walker, William Andrews, and Laura Merriman, who referenced the nineteen ten limerick by Dixon lanear Merit, an ornithology enthusiast and a professional humorist. The limericks, so goes a wonderful bird is the pelican. His bill will hold more than his pelican. He can take in his beak enough food for a week. But I'm damned if I see how the helicn get it. So bill versus gastric capacity.

Yes, we used to tell that to our fifth and sixth graders when I was a naturalist back in the day. So it's bee can actually hold more than as belly can if you're counting the water volume.

Oh yeat, and then it just squirts it out and then it keeps the fish.

Yes, thanks a good big way.

Remember it. And Jeffrey Bradshaw wants to know why are their pelicans at my very very inland lay and those that's where they nest.

I'm assuming those are white pelicans, and yes they are nesting.

Ooh. Hollis had a question. Do their throat pouches lose elasticity as they get older?

Oh? I would assume so right, that would be my assumption, But I actually don't know for sure.

I wonder if they get jowlly like all the rest of us. I wonder if there's like any botox for pouches.

I hope not. I wonder if there's a study on that.

Cool look it up, Okay, I look this up for more time than I am willing to admit. And finally, finally I turned a corner to stumble upon the paper quote on the goular sack tissue of the brown Pelican structural characterization and mechanical properties. I was like, yes, And in this paper they say bird age was found to affect the pouches material mechanical response significantly, supporting earlier musings that age brings more distinct anistrope in the Google our skin.

Get it if you want it.

I do regret clicking them before and after links though. Oh Ashley Herbel had a question. Are pelicans disproportionately affected by the pollution in our oceans due to the way that they scoop up prey with their beak like and water?

Does that happen?

I don't know about disproportionately like worse than any other seabird. In the event of like an oil spill, they could definitely ingest oil in that way, potentially at a higher rate. But most seabirds are affected by the same thing pretty much across the board.

And now you said that they can get feisty with each other and their neighbors, but not usually others. Julian Gibson wants to know do pelicans ever attack surfers. I like to stare at them and swim towards them when surfing. Thus I'm wondering my chances of an attack.

I have actually never been attacked by a pelican, and I doubt that they would because they always fly away. It's the turns and the skimmers you have to look out for. Really, they always die bomb and I know it's coming and I flinch every time they get so close.

So, yeah, don't worry about the pelicans. It's a little ones. Yeah. Oh.

Megan Walker had another question about their flippy flappy neck pouch. Do they ever get holes in their neck pouch?

So, unfortunately, fishing line and hooks is what I personally see pelicans die from the most in my field sides.

And if a hook does get a pelican's bill or pouch, it will rip it basically, and then they can't feed.

Oh no, yeah, I wonder if bird rescues are they ever able to repair it?

So if I found them in time, yes, but I usually don't. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so sad. I know. Okay, I didn't even know that could happen. Okay.

Ps side note, I was like, I wonder if there's anyone really good at Pelican gooler sack surgery. And it turns out yes, Doctor Rebecca Door at the International Bird Rescue Facility in San Pedro, California, has surgically repaired well over one hundred snagged sacks, including that of a brown pelican named Pink, who in twenty fourteen was found having

Released back into the wild.

And I hope she's just thriving in the sky and just takes the chance to drop glooey fish poop on people as much as she wants. Thomas and Wyndham wants to know if Pelican chicks toss their siblings out of the nest.

Not usually, I have never seen them in my cameras. But there is sibling rivalry. Rivalry in the sense that if there is not enough food to go around, the youngest chick tends to.

Not get fed. Oh okay, yeah, so the order and.

That they were born is the order in which the parents will generally feed them.

They can remember, But are are they like ten hours apart, like like how soon they hatch?

Kind of, It's more like a day or so. Okay, And it's not that the parents remember. It's more that the older chicks are louder. They're more willing to like shove their siblings out of the way, like get to the parents first.

Did you hear any siblings?

I actually have four? Simple what's your birth order? I am second oldest? Oh really, yeah, but all of my siblings are taller than me. I'm the shortest. I don't know what happened. Your parents must have regurgitated more fish into their mouths.

I know, I'm like.

Did I just get less food than everybody?

Sultan Zazzi wants to know if a pelican cutting its own chest to feed its young with its blood?

Does this happen? Okay?

This was a hot topic in Angela Mayfield, Katazerandi, Amber King, Skyler l prim Melissa Hannon, and Juliana all.

Wanted to know.

Is it a symbol of sacrifice or is it just medieval flim flam?

Oh gosh, Okay, so that image is actually on the state flag?

What? Yes, bleeding itself? Yes, it's actually a white pelican. Oh okay, so I explain this?

Oh my god, it's supposed to show like caring and nurturing of all of the citizens of Louisiana.

Okay, it does not happen. No, no, I promised it doesn't happen in real life.

So they used a myth about a pelican on a pelican that is not endemic to the state. Am I getting this right?

It's just not the state bird, not the bird.

Yeah, So they used an image of not the state bird doing something pelicans don't do to symbolize the ethos of the state. Yes, they hit the phone up of pelicanologists before they did that.

I hope no one comes from me. That's not your fault that it's erroneous. Iss vexill right there, all right.

I googled this and the Louisiana flag is a blue banner with a big ass bird on it feeding chicks from like a blood boob, which is just erroneous all over the place. Now, for more on weird flags, you can see the Vexillology episode from September twenty nineteen. A lot of freaky flags out there, but not in a cool freak flag way, you know, why what why kind of way. And also a white pelican not even the state bird doing something helpful. That's actually a myth. Oh okay,

So, I mean, just like our stomachs, their stomachs have pretty high acid content.

I'm not sure.

How fast the fish actually is, like stop moving inside there, but I would assume it's pretty fast.

Yeah, Okay, I look this up and apparently it's pretty acidic in there, and fish are not long for this world once in a bird belly. Also, never feed fish scraps to a pelican. I just read that the jagged bones can tear their face purse, and the only kind of sack surgery that really needs to happen is hopefully just elective.

Okay.

Miranda Martin first time question answer wants to know how are their populations doing given all the environmental challenges and which issue is impacting them the most? Miranda size, I read that they stand on their eggs to incubate, but some of them were breaking due to DDT, which we talked about. But right now is the habitat loss is the big one?

Yes, so losing their nesting sites is probably the biggest threat that they face on a wide scale. But I would say on a small scale, and this study hasn't been done, but it's just from what I've observed.

Fishing line is it's pretty bad.

So basically human pollutants, plastic for the most part, and fishing line.

Oh oh.

Amber King has a question why do they get that weird bump on their beak during mating season? And then Elizabeth rich says, what is the deal with the horn? Is it for courtship? Is it a tool? What kind of horny beaks today got going? On Jueta says that this only happens on American white pelicans. And I look this up and it's kind of like a semi circular fin that grows from their upper bill. And by the way,

And once the white pelican layser eggs, it falls off. Basically, Oh, is that just to say, like I'm a that they are fit enough to breed?

I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, I've got this bee comp and yeah, anyone's wondering if I'm down.

To fornicate my bee comp? Yeah? Okay.

Alison Bray says, I already know too much about pelicans because my husband is a zoo keeper. But please ask about pouchle lole. What is pouch louse?

Okay, So there are.

Lice found on pelicans, and there has to be on in a habitat that already had the lice, and they can make their way like onto the pelicans. And it's not really good if they have really high abundance of lice.

Ooh yeah, okay, I want to see what these pouch louse looks like.

Pouch louse, Alcid Bray, why'd you do this to us? I look this up and just imagine staring down the fleshy barrel of a Pelican purse to see dozens of redbug looking horrors just clinging to the skin, which in some cases can malnourish our pella friends. I want to get in there with tweezers and just just lovesme. I just want to help out. And also I'm a gross person and I like gross things. Okay, Julie Bear. How many Pelicans are in a typical orgy? I mean a

It's nope. They usually just have one mate, okay.

And on the biggest island in coastal Louisiana, we have about ten thousand breeding pairs.

Ten thousands thousand.

Oh. Mikayley Egott, first time question asker asks why do they have those terrifying red eyes.

Do they have red eyes? And are they terrifying?

Ooh, so brown pelicans actually have this blue hazely eyes. Oh yeah, they're actually really pretty in my opinion, and adult pelican, I should specify, have the prettiest eyes.

Side fact, white pelicans can have red eyes, kind of like that weird Bronco statue at the Denver Airport. Also, as breeding season comes and goes, a pelican's eyes can change color and so can their gular sac It's so flirty. Ronan last question says, the brown pelican is my mom's favorite bird, which is amazing, And I asked her if she has a question, And so Ronan's mom wants to know. So do pelicans migrate or do they live in the same temperate location year round?

So in Louisiana we do have brown pelicans that hang around all year, but some of them actually do travel down to Central America.

Ooh, and that's wintertime.

Yes, so outside of February through like August, they can be somewhere else.

I love the idea that they're just like little snowbirds, just having some fun some of their own vacation.

They just have a time share.

I'm so jealous they get to leave, but I'm stuck in cold Louisiana.

And you're just like waiting for them to come to tach. Yes, that's literally my life. Like, actually, do you have any advice for anyone who has a feeling in their heart like maybe they are a burder but they're not quite sure how to get started.

I have a feeling in my heart that I might be a burder. And I have a friend who I've known since we were twelve, and just in the last year something happened and she is a capital B birder now and I'm like, I get it. What do you think is the best way to start? Do you get like a local field guide?

So I just got this recommended to me. And if you're a tech savvy person, there's a Sibly app version two for twenty dollars that you can download so you don't have to carry around a really big field guy. And in this app you can actually compare birds, which

Safety and the outdoors is very important, and recognizing Blackbird's Week is a great way to celebrate black naturalists and just let them know that they're seen and supported in the sciences and in the outdoors and ologites. I hope you can be allies and find allies and maybe find some birding buddies out there. I have never been burning myself, and this initiative has made me pretty eager to dust off my binoculars and go. So for a novice burd is it better to go with a group who knows

I like both. Actually like hanging out with the big group of people. There's more eyes looking around and everyone can share their experiences and like just point out different things that you may not have seen or known about. And then sometimes I like to go out on my own because it forces me to really learn and hone in my skills.

I think both options are awesome. How is your vision? I have a stigmatism, you do? I was finding.

Because like I feel like you know when you get a new contact or a new glasses prescription and suddenly you're like, oh, oh my gosh, well these leaves I've been missing out on?

Oh my god.

Yeah, for me, it's like the blades of grass. I'm like, whoa, there's so many blades of grass. Who would have thought?

And so it's not that great, but just got to remember to where it goes.

Yeah, whenever I get like a new prescription, that's always the thing that I noticed, and I imagine that that It must make you want to make sure that you've got like the right prescription a lot.

Yes, you can see so much more.

Oh my gosh. What sucks the most about pelicans or about your work?

Okay? I think the worst for me is the boat. I am terrified. I'm not terrified of the boat. I'm terrified of damaging the boat, losing the boat, or getting it stuck again. So I didn't actually ever lose a boat, but somebody else did they boat.

Yeah, so what we have to do is you toss the anchor and you try to make sure that the anchor is actually in and because if you don't, the boat basically drifts away. And so this person, you know, toss the anchor, went on their plot of land, whatever their field site was, and when they came back, the boat was gone.

No. Yeah, this like half a million dollar boat. Did they ever find it?

They did, say, God they were in cell service areas versus me. I don't work in an area with a cell service, so if I lost the boat, I'm not sure what would happen. So that's probably like my biggest.

Fear should be to message me later to say that the boat was probably actually around one hundred thousand dollars, which, hello, is like losing a brand new Porsche just out to sea, bobbing in the dark water. Now, can she just pop a GPS tile on a boat? She had a better idea.

I should put a Louisiana state flag on it so I can see it. That's a good idea, That's what I should do.

Can you put a note on the bottom of the flag, being like pelicans represented may not actually ever do this disclaimer or be our state bird. What about your favorite thing about pelicans or your work.

The fact that I get to be so close to these birds is wild because very few people get that opportunity and being surrounded by ten thousand nesting birds, specifically pelicans, it's a wild experience.

And pelicans are actually not that bad.

It's all the other birds around them, from the turn to the skimmers to the laughing gulls.

They're super loud. But that's why I love.

Taking volunteers out there when a pandemic isn't currently going on, because I get to see my field site in a whole new light and remember, oh yeah, most people don't get to see that happening, and it's like the coolest thing. I just went out into the field for the first time yesterday and I took one of my committee members and another grad student, both of whom have not been on the islands.

And I know they're team fish, but I'm just going to say they were smiling from there years.

So from one side of their pouch to the other. Yes, that's exciting. Well, you have given me a new appreciation of pelicans and pelican.

Babies and their floopy skin pouches and their face purses. I'm gonna call them face persa.

So now I love that, just digging around, just digging around the handbag.

Oh look at that's another fish.

You never know. I'm so glad I got a chance to talk to you. If i'm next.

Time I come to Louisiana, I'm going to look you up.

I hope it's in field season. I'll come out with my chacos. Oh my god, yes we have to have that. That would be awesome.

Choco tacos, no pelican ing, We'll wear chacos.

I promise not to lose the boat.

So ask smart pelicanologists flappy saggy, sappy, silly questions because they love pelicans and now, so do you look at that? You love pelicans? And Juta. You can follow her on Instagram or on Twitter at Juwita Martinez. I will put a link to the handles and her website in the show notes. You can also join in and enjoy black

I'm so excited.

Okay, we are at Ologies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm Ali wordeth one l on both and Ologiesmerch dot com has totes and shirts and bags and such. And thank you to Shannon Feldtis and Bonnie Dutch. They are sisters who host a comedy podcast called You Are that they manage merch. There have been warehouse delays due to COVID nineteen, but we're going as fast as we can.

Thank you to the.

Wonderful Aaron Talbert, who admins Theologies podcast Facebook group. There's also a subreddit if you're into that. Thanks to all the Ologies transcribers and Emily White for working so hard to make transcripts. Avails at alleywar dot com, slash Ologies Dash Extras. Caleb Patton for making the Bleeped episodes that are safe for kids. They are also up at that link. Kelly Dwyer for website updates, Noel for keeping me on

And today's secret is.

That I went to my friend's house for a socially distant hang. By that, I mean I was sitting on the curb while she was sitting on her porch like twelve feet away byo kombuucha, and I realised idpe And rather than go inside and touch all kinds of knobs and handles, I just pede in her backyard with her blessing Nature calls Hi, I'm here. Packaderman's College Mambiology, ydo zoology, lithology, yology, meteorology, entology, dipology, seriology, selenology,