Of course, our supermarket has a cheesemonger. Our cells the milk of nineteen different mammals.
What does yours of an entire aisle dedicated to venison.
Feel my curtains? Guess where they're from. Our supermarket has a granola launch.
Ours has a sorbe.
Chainer, Molly and salt library.
We're having our honeymoon in ours.
Have another FEELI b my curtains. Oh, has your supermarket got notions?
If so, switch to Aldi, where you'll get all the quality with none of the madness the prices.
You'll love Aldi.
It's not complicated. Oh hey, it's the lady that hosts that podcast, and let's go. Let's get right in. You don't need me talking about talking about Cape Beras. Okay, So we're going to chat with the associate professor of biology, the only North American expert in these furry, gorgeous charmers, so capybas side note, there are those snubnosed the bricks of relaxation, these creatures that just are chilling. You may have seen them in video footage. Maybe they got a
bird on their head. Maybe you watched it on a loop to help you forget about your divorce for a few moments. Everyone loves a capit bear. So this expert did her undergrad at Kent State University in zoology. It got a PhD in biology at the University of Missouri Saint Louis and has collaborated with the folks who wrote the actual textbook on this exceptional neotropical species as they call.
So we're going to chat in a sec But first, thank you to everyone who supports this show on Patreon for a dollar a month at patreon dot com slash ologies. You can wear our shirts and hats and socks via ologiesmerch dot com. We also have free, shorter and g rated cuts of our episodes. Those are up at alley one dot com slash asmologies. All those things are linked in the show notes. And also, thank you so much to everyone who has ever left a review, which helps
the show so much. I read every single one, like this week from Laura's COO one who said that they love the variety of personalities that make each episode special, as well as the secrets that I tell you at the end of the episode, just in case you did not know that I do that. Also, I just want to shout out to New ologite mister James Allison, who left a two star review after his first time listening. James did not enjoy that the topic of one episode
was science poetry, as the title suggested. Just a reminder, you can click on any episode you'd like you can choose which one you listen to. Also, if you go to ologies dot com, you will find three hundred and seventy five plus episodes over six and a half years of doing the show. We cover everything from worms in the ocean mud to the vastness of the universe, all for free. So have at it atologies dot com. Okay. Hydro Coroology derives from this animal's scientific name, which in
Greek means pig of the water. Okay, So draw yourself a bath, put a piece of fruit on your head, and let's get ready for a weird feet square faces, inner species, snorgling, Capibera, cafes, spa days, natural habitats, escaped Capyberra and rodents of unusual size of fossil record that
will rock you What the Pope thinks of them? Capumera, songs, books, movies, and so much more with Zoologist Associate Professor of Biology, Absolute Capeberra expert and thus, hydro coroologist, doctor Elizabeth Beth Conden, you know how exciting this is? This is what you do for a job.
Well it is, I mean, and it's so funny because I'm like, oh, what talk about capyberras for an hour?
Yeah, not a problem.
I love it. I love it, Okay, Elizabeth Conden, she her and I am at Bethune Cookman University and I'm associate professor of biology.
Amazing. Okay, first question, hydro choreoologist? Does that? Is that a? Is that a word?
Well? No, but but I think it. I think it should be quite frankly, so yeah, I'm with it. Hydrocarologists yeah, okay.
And capyberra capybara? How is it said?
So in English capi bera, But of course they don't occur in any English speaking countries, so capybara or in Brazil capibara, in Peru, bron soco, in Venezuela, tiguire. So they go buy a lot of different names. But in the native Venezuelan language, capebrera translates to master of the grasses. How cool is that? That's so great?
I love that there are mammals who are less adept at grasses.
There's a hierarchy like I'm really good at grass.
Yeah, the grass really well, just have pioneered the art of grass. Now, how big are they because so many of us have seen videos but not necessarily with a person like how like dog size casts eyes.
At more dog large dog? Oh, and they vary a little bit so in the north they're a little bit smaller, but a little bit smaller is still like fifty to fifty five kilograms.
American translation, over one hundred and twenty pounds, as much as a Great Dane.
In Brazil, where they're protected, they actually grow up to seventy five kilograms, which is close to one hundred and fifty pounds. No, yeah, no huge. Now they're chunky, so they're shaped kind of like a pig or the way I think of them is they have the body of a pigmy hippo what And so they're solid, right, and this would be you know, in the rainy season when there's plenty of grass to eat. Yeah, they're solid little buggers and standing next to one, it's gonna come up
at least to your if not a little taller. There are some pictures out there because people do have the misspets.
I don't know why more on the feasibility of all of your hopes and dreams. In a bit, I can't believe it. I thought they were maybe the size of like a French bulldog.
One hundred Oh no, yeah, it's crazy, I know. So they are literally the largest rodent species in the world, and the second largest is the beaver.
Nice beaver.
Oh wow, and yet the beaver is like less than half their size.
Is a beaver a rodent? Yes, okay, a beaver is a rodent. We haven't done a beaver episode. So this is also I suppose news to me. I got a guy in Montana for castrology. Just too wait, but yeah, keep going.
So basically, what makes adent a rodent is that their incisors continue to grow, so their two front teeth are super sharp, and that helps them like cut through the grass, right if you think about trying to eat a piece of celery and it's all stringy. So they have super sharp teeth so that they can just cut right through the grass, you know, without having the stringy problem. And they need to gnaw on something like if you've ever had a pet, guinea pig, gerbal hamster, they gnaw on
wood in their cage and stuff like that. That helps wear down the teeth and keep them sharp, because otherwise they'll just keep growing and they can be really dangerous if they grow, like down into their chin essentially. So yeah, that's that's a rodent.
And if you're thirsty for more information, you can head to the Sewers for our urban rodentology episode with the endearing and lovable New York City rat expert doctor Bobby Corrigan, an episode during which I cry about rats in a good way. But back to South America, and is grass enough to keep their teeth sharp and worn down? Or are they out there eating all kinds of stuff.
They'll gnaw on wood occasion just to keep their teeth worn down, but typically when they're you know, munching on the grasses and a few other plants, that keeps their teeth worn down as well.
What are their teeth like?
Like?
How big are their teeth? I imagine you've probably gotten up close much more than anyone else I'm ever going to eat.
Yeah, actually I have a couple because I've saved them because of course I did their top teeth, I mean, their curb. But they're like good four inches.
That rustled around her desk for one that she had on hand, like other people might have an eraser or hand lotion.
Good three and a half three and a half inches anyway on a full grown Yeah, and the bottom ones are a little bit smaller. In Venezuela, they are. They taste really good.
No, I was wondering about that if people eat them.
They do so, being that they eat primarily grass, they taste like cow, except you know, if you think they're entirely grass fed, So they're like a really good grass fed beef. And so in Venezuela they're harvested right before Lent every year, and with a managed harvest, a census is taken and then ranchers will get permits to take
twenty percent of their population. And I worked on a ranch that participated in that, and so every spring, basically I could take my pick of capybary teeth, among other things. It was the less glamorous part of the research. But they've actually become a bit of a traditional meal during lent because they are semi aquatic. And so in seventeen eighty four the Pope declared them fish to fish.
That's so bonkers. Why do they even have cabibers in Italy? What did the Pope have to do with any of this?
No other than them, Well, they wanted to convert Venezuelans to Christianity Catholicism. But Venezuelans really liked their meat. And when they explore, you know, I can't remember the name of the individual, but sent back a description of capi beer's to the Pope, describe them as you know, being in the water. And so the Pope said, well, all right, let's call them fish. And so they eat during Lent. The Venezuelans will not eat other meats, but they eat capy beer.
Is it beefy or is it piggy?
It's it's beefy. It tastes like cow wow.
And this is absolutely bonkers to me. But I ask so many questions. Are there enough to eat them? Or are they pretty endangered?
So it really depends on where you are. Brazil, they're protected, so it's illegal to kill them in Brazil. So they're almost a nuisance if you think about in the United States, some of the places where the deer get overpopulated and become a nuisance to people's guarden, you know, get into people's gardens and things like that. In Brazil, the capub beerreras start getting into people's crops and things because there
are so many of them. But in Venezuela, where of course, the economy is struggling and so people are somewhat desperate for adequate food and in particular meat, outside of protected areas, you really don't see any capubreras. They're in ranches, private cattle ranches, or in protected areas, and they're actually worth more perkilo. The meat costs more per kilo than beef does,
so there's incentive for the ranchers to protect them. So when they're protecting their cows from poachers, they're also protecting the capu beras.
And are they managed like in corrals.
No, they're territorial, so they're not really trying to go anywhere.
Now.
My dissertation research was looking at their movement patterns and natal dispersal. When the young ones mature, do they stay it's there with the social group they were born in, or do they leave? And what I found, for the most part, the females will stay with their natal social group, but the males will leave and find another group. And so occasionally you'll see a lone male wandering out just
in the in the savannah. Hello ladies. But they become lunch pretty quick, and for the most part they're going to stick because these cattle ranches are just huge, and so they just wander to another group a little bit across the grassland. And what we don't know is how a cape bera sort of sidles up to an established group of capy beras and introduces himself. That's what I wanted to do for my next study. Honestly, you would.
Have to be out in kind of the wilds where they're doing their thing in these long ranges, right, would you have to really be like traveling that.
Yes. So for my dissertation work, I lived on a cattle ranch in ato El Sdral, which is in Apota State, Venezuela, and I lived there on and off for about two and a half years. Oh my god. There's also an eco lodge on the ranch, and so they had infrastructure, a translator while I was still learning my Spanish and things, and they had a kitchen there that I could use and things like that, and they had an extra cabin that they let me stay in free of charge while I did my research.
So getting to your history, I want to know how someone becomes essentially the North American expert on this.
When I was in school for my masters, I studied primates in Venezuela and I was just absolutely became enamored, just enthralled with tropical forests, with conservation, seeing animals in the wild. I was just hooked. And so for my PhD, I wanted to do something in the tropics, but I didn't want to stick with primate because I did not want to be a primatologist. Not that there's anything wrong with being a primatologist, but many primatologists are in anthropology departments,
and I wanted to be in an ecology department. I wanted to have a broader focus. And so I happened to be at the University of Missouri Saint Louis and my major advisor, her name is Zulema te Martinez. She is Venezuelan, has lived in the US for over forty years. But she had a colleague, Emilio Herrera, who was at the University Simon and Belivar in Venezuela, and so she said, you know, my friend Emilio is looking for someone to do field work for capybars because he wants to be
in the lab more. Oh, And I said, well, I don't like being in the lab. I want to be in the field. And so Emilio and I teamed up and I went down and met him and saw the ranch and everything, and we established a collaboration.
Had you done a lot of traveling before that in your life and were you familiar with the work of doing a dissertation or a PhD? What was your background like?
So I started out pre vet as a lot of people do. Right when you love animals and you're good in science, it's like, oh, well, go pre vet. So I started out that way. But then I worked at a small animal practice throughout undergrad and realized that veterinarians spend so much time talking to people about their pets, and I don't want to talk to people. I shouldn't say that as I'm talking to people, but I mean, my name was. I wanted to work with an animal.
I wanted to be more directly involved with the animals more than the and I found it so heart wrenching when you had an animal that was ill and it was because the owner wouldn't take care of it.
And of course there are cases of animal neglect just straight up, but they're also financial and mental health factors. And if you're considering giving an animal a good home and you can afford that time, and the vetcare shelters are overrun with owner surrenders right now post lockdown, So you deserve unconditional love from a hairy baby and those critters to serve a safe home.
I just that's not something I wanted to deal with for my job. So I started exploring other possibilities, and so I got an internship volunteering at the Cleveland Zoo.
And this was back in I'm going to age myself the mid mid nineties, and it was when the Cleveland Zoo first established a research office and hired their first research coordinator, and so I was like among the first cohort of volunteers to collect behavioral data with the animals instead of cleaning up poop, which is what you usually have to do when you get started.
Yes, we have a poop episode. It's called Scatology with a zoo pooh biologist. And yes, if you can volunteer anywhere that you love being, it could really change everything. I did a field trip episode about the natural history Museum of la There would be no ologies without that time of my life. And unfortunately volunteer positions don't pay, and a lot of internships don't either, so it's really
a privilege to afford the time. But if you can give even a few hours a week, I've found it was worth every second to lift my spirits and help narrow down what you love well hopefully helping some people too.
So I went into it thinking I wanted to be like a zoo keeper and go into animal care, and that was my first assignment, was to do behavioral observations of Chilean flamingos and I just fell in love with the process, everything from creating the data sheets, collecting the data, figuring out how to analyze it. And that's a whole other podcast about the flamingos.
Speaking though, of birds and the bees, I.
Want to know how Capyberra's date. You know, you grow up, you leave home, How do you find a new group? How do you introduce yourself if you're a Capi beerra Hi the hi Hello?
Where do they originate from?
And what is like?
Geographically? Where are they and how long have they been there?
So basically they are from the Panama Canal all the way down to northern Argentina. So they're just in Latin America. There are no natural populations in North America or in Africa. And I believe there was a fossil, like a six hundred pound fossil.
Okay, so about twenty five years ago the skeleton of a six hundred ish pound rodent named Phoberamus petersone was found. But then in two thousand and eight, a bigger extinct rodent emerged on the fossil scene, the Josepho Artigasia monissen, which may have weighed in at one thousand kill or twenty two hundred pounds. Here you are, you're going about your life. You're deciding what burrito bowl to order for lunch on a planet that once had rodents weighing more
than a Ford Fiesta. Good luck going back to your old life after this episode. It's never going to happen. How did they get so big? Well, the way I.
Think about it is not so much how did they get so big? But how did they survive being that big?
Yeah?
Right, So if you think bigger more babies, capy bears do have more offspring then would be expected from an animal their size or from another mammal. Right, so they average about four offspring per litter, but they can have eight nine. I saw one with ten, but that was a rare, rare event. Bigger animal, more offspring, more offspring, more of them in the next generation. And then it just is sort of a forward loop. Where in Africa you have a lot of different grazers, a lot of
different grass feeders and browsers and things. But in Latin America you have deer and cappy bears, oh not much else. Oh, they are the master of the grass. Yeah, I was gonna say they just once they found their niche, they were like, cool, this is ours.
The deer can't compete with them. Maybe, Well, the.
Deer tend to be browsers, so they're eating like the lower on the lower branches of trees and leaves off of floor things and in the brush, whereas the capy bearers are the grass. They're eating slightly different foods in terms of the species that they eat.
Speaking of other species, are they okay with other animals? Do they have natural predators? Why do we see so many videos where they got monkeys on their heads or they're chilling with crocs, or they're like raising kittens.
With I know, so I think, really it's they're super chill. So I was just watching a clip of them in the movie and Kanto. They're completely nonchalant like whatever. The way I think of them in the field too is give me a patch of grass, I'm good, don't bother me, leave me alone. And so now, of course in the zoos they've got monkeys crawling around on their backs and everything.
But also in the wild I have seen them where they are in the water, and there's a turtle that crawls up on the back and basks on the back of the cape barrel like it's a log iguanas birds just riding around on their back while they're swimming around. And there are caman in the same habitat. And also the particular ranch I worked at had introduced ornocle crocodiles because they are endangered. And I have a photograph of capyberra's sleeping right next to the orinocle croc.
Why don't they attack each other?
Well, I mean I can't ask the crocodile, of course, but it would appear that if crocodile's not hungry, there's plenty of fish. Crocodiles eating fish just to ps.
Ornico crocs are native to the Ornico River in Venezuela, and are these critically endangered long snooted water beasts. They pretty much only eat fish, and they're not hunting capit beras because very few of these crocodiles are catholic.
But back to your question of their natural predators jaguars, Oh, anacondas, Ah, yeah, there are big anacondas, and so a big anaconda can wrap around and take an adult capyberra.
What and a person too?
Yeah? Well, yeah, that's a whole that's a whole movie genre into itself.
Of course, right, and condas are a perfect curing wash.
And then the baby capy beras are snacks for just about anything. Baby capy beras about the size of an adult guinea pig. Baby. Yeah, and they are most closely related to guinea pigs, so if you think about like the shape of their head and stuff, they're kind of like giant guinea pigs.
Getting back to chill, because I don't think I had more questions. Why are they so chill? Even my sister asked, I just texted her, she's a capubera enthusiast Celeste Saucy, this one's for you, and she's like, please ask why are they so chill? Do they have bigger brains that are like, I'm not threatened? Or do they have tiny little walnuts that are like, who could not like me?
I love them dearly, but I don't think they're the brightest in the bunch. I really don't, because I think what it is is because they eat grass. Grass takes a long time to digest, and so their metabolism is somewhat slow. And if you think about how cows are like, okay, I'm just you know, eating my grass, chilling standing here. Also, because of their size, there aren't very many natural predators, so they can afford to be kind of chill and relaxed.
Now they will. I have seen a mama capiberra back down a Cayman when that came in, was going after her babies. And you know, they can run pretty fast for short distances.
That's gonna be so weird to see one just galloping full speed.
Yeah, they are kind of funny. They're not the most graceful.
I needed to know how fast our beautiful piggy friends can run and I was alarmed to learn it's up to thirty five kilometers or twenty two miles an hour. That is a speed comparable to a horse, the world's largest rodent running as fast as a horse into your arms. Maybe, But in looking this up, I also learned that the lethal black mamba snake can move about twenty miles an hour,
which is as fast as an Olympic sprinter. One animal that can go twice that speed forty miles an hour is called a Mongolian wild ass, which one hundred percent sounds like a hot sauce that your brother in law brings to Thanksgiving. Let's talk about the zeitgeist. So what do you use to catch a kapy bara? Well, how about another kapy Fally.
Ducked in kapy bars from zoos all around the region, and zoo keepers recorded the times each contestant entered a hot math and then left. I'm sorry, are we bothering you with a story case?
I don't even know that you know.
These These animals were like trending on TikTok until my twenty five year old daughter said, oh my gosh, mom, you get to get training. A kapy bara named Tater talk that's great name.
Oh yes, and the cold following on TikTok and now a local business is feeling the copy bar Cranze.
They are kind of cute.
Right, Let's talk about the world's love of Kathy Beas. What has gone on? And you've been researching this for so long, At what point did you see, like, holy shit, people really love Cathbers. What did the internet fall in love with them?
Well, certainly the Internet's helped. But one of the things I always find interesting is that when I meet families, it tends to be the kids that know what capi Beras are. Yes, yeah, And up until recently, if it don't knew what they were, it was only because they loved the movie The Princess Bride. Rouss Rodents of Unusual size? Yes, yeah, Leslie, what.
About the Rouss Rodents of Unusual size?
I don't think that exists. I mean for the first couple of years I started studying, That's why I got that all the time. Oh my god, r o us is and I used to get I used to get kind of upset because I'm like, they're not that ugly. In the movie. They were made to look like giant New York city rats, and I'm like, there's so much caterer than.
That, Okay. So I dug deep on the internet and I found a PDF script for the classic nineteen eighty seven romance fantasy masterpiece The Princess Bride, and the screenplay directions described the rodents of unusual size as quote no more than eighty pounds of bone and power. And in the film, the ro us s are these tree dwelling, carnivorous predators of the bog and all that being that,
they are still smaller than actual capy beras. So does that ever disturb you, as someone who is a hydrochoreologist, that cat by beras were done so dirty?
I have I have learned to let it go, mostly because my friends hate it when I interrupt a good movie to say that's not right, especially if it's a cartoon. It's a cartoon. Let it go. But it's so great to just see people appreciating them, you know. But I still think one of my favorite was do you remember the cartoon the Tic? Oh? Yeah, of course, and the ticks pet was a capi Bera named.
Speak good by Speak, I love you.
And then it was the young people who when the internet really started getting popular. It was the young people that were on the internet, and so they just somehow blew. They went viral.
How do you feel about them wearing oranges on their head?
So, I I mean they're going to do people are gonna do what they do in zoos.
But I.
Really don't like exotic animals being like pets. I mean, people do it, but I prefer people stick to dogs and cats and not. I mean, you really want to see me get upset put a monkey in a dress, yes, or a diaper. I've I've loved terrible things about that. Just the thing about kapy bars is I don't understand why people would they're they're not cuddly. I mean, of course they you can get to know them, and I'm sure they have some kind of, you know, a personality
that you can become endeared to in things. But I like to appreciate them in there in the wild. I like to leave them there, not recommended as pets. That was another massive question we got. They look maybe like they could be soft, but are they bristly. They're bristolly, yeah, so they're not like a pillow. It's interesting because in Venezuela people eat them but they do not use to hide for leather. In Argentina, they use to hide for leather, but they do not eat them.
Oh what's up with that? What do they do with the hides they make?
It makes a really soft like like half skin like leather.
But what are they doing with them if they're not using them?
In Venezuela, Oh, they just toss them into They just let them rot.
No.
Yeah, I got a business proposition for you when I was there. I'm like, okay, so how about Argentina send the meat to Venezuela. Venezuela send the hides to Argentina. I mean, couldn't we make this more efficient? But you know, Venezuelans and Argentinians are kind of rivals.
God man, we need a diplomat down there, like everyone. Fewer Cababaras need to die. Everyone's making a lot more money. What do they smell like?
Okay, well again I was in the wild. They didn't smell great. But they smell better if they're a pet or in a zoo. But I can't come up with a description off the top of my head.
Musky Are they musky? Are they barnyard like dusty?
They smell kind of dusty because I was in the savannah, and I would capture them to put ear tags because it's very difficult to tell them apart. Actually I hired local cowboys who would last them from horseback, and then once they had one lassoed, I would drive my jeep across the savannah to meet them, and then I would put an ear tag, take measurements, take a tissue samples,
we could do genetics. And that was during the dry season, and so it was everything was very dusty, and they kind of had that just dirt smell, but clean dirt.
I must say, would you have to give them like a xanax for that?
We didn't. For the most part. We would just do it as quickly as it only took like ten minutes to do all the processing. So rather than risk some sort of negative side effect to any kind of of anesthetic or sedative, we just did it as quick as we could and release them and they they would come back to their range, you know, within a couple days. Man, So they would kind of run away immediately, of course, but then they would be back within a couple of days.
They'd be like, oh it's fine, Yeah again, they're chill. Did you ever take the opportunity scientifically to boop them on the snoot at all.
I never booped. Okay, I did not boop. But I did have the opportunity once there was a baby that was orphaned and someone brought it to me. So I did have the opportunity to bottle feed a baby for a few days. And that was that little baby that one I booped.
I don't blame you. I don't blame you.
He slept in my hammock with me.
Oh, these are the perks of being a hydrochoreuologist.
And yet and I and I totally admit that it is not fair. It is not fair that I tell people that they cannot have them as a pet, but I got to play with the baby for a week. Not fair if it makes people feel any better. I was in school for a really long time, and I still don't make great money.
Or trade offs.
Trade offs to everything your.
Sacrifice well knowing, Okay, So looking at their nose, and I feel like maybe I read this serial research that males produce a lot of like copious amounts of secretions to.
Be attractive, so they have a scent gland on their nose. Males and females have the gland, but it's much more pronounced in males, so you can actually from a distance tell a male as a male by this. It's called the morio, which is Spanish really little hill. It looks like they have a computer mouse sitting on their nose because it's this boom bump, and they produce this milky secretion. And the dominant males use more than the more subordinate
or juvenile males, and they produce more than females. Now, females will not scent mark with their snout, males will. Males will go over rub on a tree, rub on vegetation, don't pretty much sent mark anything they can get near. When I was observing them, as long as I was downwind so they couldn't smell me, they would come over and sent mark on my tripod.
Oh god.
But the females and the males both have scent glands in their anal region anal scent lands, and so they sent mark with those as well. And this would be basically communication within the group. Right, They're signaling that we are a part of this group, who who is sexually receptive at what time you are, who's the dominant and who's the subordinate, And so that whole communication is through those, through those scent lands and through those scents.
Did you ever have to smell your tripod afterward? Did that have a smell?
No, as I I would clean that up. Yeah.
So when someone posts a sign in the breakroom about how the office manager is not your mom, so please wash your own coffee mugs, just remember some jobs involve smearing capabera nose musk off of your belongings. And I asked the Internet and apparently this sultry face juice has a mild musky odor like that of a beaver or a muskrat, which did not help me at all because I have sniffed neither of those things, even in a platonic way. But yes, a male cappy will have this
nose lump. It looks kind of like a face scab, but it's it's just as riz. What about they have these big square noses. Is the scent gland part of the size of that? And why generally are they so square? They're such blocky animals.
So if you look at photos of them when they're swimming, they have just the top of their head out of the water and with just a little bit of the top of their head out of the water, their nostrils, eyes and scent gland or out of the water. Oh okay, So that box like shape allows them to be almost completely submerged but still have their nostrils and eyes above the water. When there is a predator, they will run
into the water. Their territory always has a body of water, an area of bushes that they can sleep in, hide in. That's where they hide the babies, and then a grassy area where they eat. They alarm call. They alarm call, so they warn each other when a predator's coming. So they have this like bark honk bark crossover and when someone sounds an alarm in the group, everybody jumps in the water.
Really do they have different alarm calls for different things?
Their alarm palls pretty much just one type. But they do have different vocalizations, so they have that. And then they have this like chirping clicking that is more when they're playing or when they're mating. So they have like an affiliative a friendly sound, and then an oh crap. Those are the jaguar sound.
I'm glad that we've answered that. Can I ask you some listener questions. Yeah, absolutely, okay, but before we soak in the misty waters of your inquiries, let's give to a charity. And this week Beth chose a critter cause that was close to her heart and her home, and that's Edgewater Rescue in Florida, where she helps train and find homes for rescue dogs like piples and boxers, which are also smaller than Kapabera's. I can't get over that they could be one hundred and fifty pounds.
It's what.
I didn't know anyway. Yeah, that donation went to Edgewateranimalshelter dot org in her name, and that was made possible by sponsors of the show. Okay, your questions. Patreon pals, friends, and bff teers get to submit audio questions now, which may run on the show, but any patron can join for a dollar a month and submit written questions. I may read your name and your question on the show. So let us hap this off with your very good questions. Okay,
questions from patrons. Kelsey lives in California. This is a good story. Hi.
My name is.
Kelsey and I live in California. When I was in college, I went to college in Texas, and for a summer, I commuted between Waco and Houston every weekend. And one night, late one night, I was driving down a country road and I had to slam on the brakes because there were like twelve brown rocks crossing the road. And people have tried to tell me that those were nutria, but I've googled nutria and they're like little muskrats. Basically, these
things were huge. I mean, they definitely looked like if I slammed into one.
The car would be hurt and the animal would be fine. So is there a chance that there were kappy bars in Texas?
Thank you for helping me solve this mystery.
There is absolutely a chance. So really, oh yeah, oh yeah. So one of the things Texas is known for, unfortunately, is ranches that have canned hunting. Okay, so there would be a ranch and they have exotic animals, and people pay thousands of dollars to have the opportunity to go and shoot a lion or a giraffe, and I think it's horrible. Just to make that clear, I'm not advocating for that at all, but there are a few ranches
in Texas that have capybarras. If you ask me, it's not a real sporting sport to shoot at capyberra's that are contained by a fence.
Like shooting fish in a barrel anyway.
But people will pay for this, so there's absolutely a possibility that some escaped and yeah, we're wandering across the road. We have some sightings sometimes here in Florida. There was one, I think in twenty eighteen, somebody hit a capyberrera.
With a car. Yikes, that's and that's a big boy, right, Yeah.
Typically if there's just one, it's going to be a big male that's trying to find a new home. The story goes here in Florida that a small group escaped from a research facility in the nineties and then reproduced and got up to something like fifty individuals. But there's only really occasional, sporadic sightings and nothing of groups that size anymore. So the idea is that they they're not invasive.
They're exotic, but they maybe have a few offspring, but not enough to become what we would call invasive where they really create a problem for the local Florida and fauna.
So being in Florida, you're not based in Florida because it's getting overrun with cabyberras and pythons and all kinds of other Like no, I.
Came to Florida for the job and then was thrilled that there might be capuberras here and thought this could be too good. So I did work with some people out of University of Florida, and we did our best to find them, and we were not able to locate any kind of breeding population. We'd find an occasional footprint that was pretty much it.
Okay, I needed more info on this escape drama, and apparently near the Santa Fe River in Florida, near Gainesville, five of them busted out in the chaos of a storm that broke a pasture fence, and according to the twenty eighteen paper status of Cafeberas and Potential for establishment in Florida by nineteen ninety five, all the original escapees, they said, were recovered, but they had already started reproducing. So does this mean they're not invasive but kind of feral?
Like if you found a like one hundred and fifty pound poppy and you took it home to feed it organic lettuces other patrons and I know We've addressed this a little bit, have asked.
In Aaron's words, Hey, this is Aaron Ryan from Vancouver, Canada, and I'm calling because I would like to dash the hope and dreams of my friend Allison and just reaffirmed that kapi baras make terrible pets.
Thank you. Well, I'm gonna say two theres one again. They're not cuddly, but also they like to pee and pooh in the water, so you have to have like a pond or a swimming pool in the backyard and then clean the cappy bear crap.
Out of it.
That doesn't sound like any fun to me.
No, how big are their pooh like? Are they like doura flame logs that come out? Are they like.
Guinea pig pooh? No? Actually it's more like pellets, okay, like you would think of deer pellets, but a little bit bigger. Okay, Actually they look like they look like chocolate peanut em and m's.
Honestly, I could deal with that, but the lack of cuddling would be heartbreaking and frankly a little triggering. But I wasn't the only one thinking about it, dreaming about it. Patron's average prime mollipets, a Lista Mercier, Christina, Samela Peyton, Nill Cotolade, Jasmine Leo, Bianca Palm and Jesse the Hope. First time question asker wants to know. Are they as snugly as they look like? Would a cabebera let me give it a hug or would it rip my face off or something in between?
A baby would give you a hug. Oh, an adult would probably bite you. Okay, I have I have been bitten because again I lastle them, tackle them and you know, pierce their ears and so you know, I make the mad So I've gotten nipped. Nothing, you know, nothing serious, but yeah, when you like any ann't scare me, I'll bite you. Yeah.
Did they bite you on the glove or did they draw blood?
Well one got me in the back of the leg and drew some blood, but nothing too serious.
Did you need any antibiotics just sloly sporn on that?
Well, whether or not I needed some or had some or kind of two different things possibly us. I literally used crazy glue on it.
What does your family think of your job?
They're getting used to it. Okay, yeah, they got used to it when I first went to Venezuela to study the part my mates, and they realized that I was going to be there kind of by myself, that I wasn't there with a whole team. They looked at me a little sideways, but by now, I mean I've done it enough that they're kind of like, oh, yeah, Aunt Beth is going someplace again.
I just think he must be the most exciting person at Thanksgiving. I just feel like all eyes would be on you and asking more questions about having to last you at Cappy Bear.
But I don't know about exciting. But I tend to have some unusual stories when I'm with my family. But certainly it's what's fun is when I'm you know, someplace with my other wildlife biology behaviorally collegy friends and we're all swapping stories about you know, giant pouch rats in Tanzania or noles lizards in the Bahamas, and then kapy bears you know in the savannahs are just another story.
And I understand that you are palas with another mammologist and rotentologists. We've had on doctor Lee right, oh yeah, yeah.
Doctor Lee and I were in the same lab as grad students and are still really good friends. He's like one of my heroes.
Oh, she's amazing. See Doctor Daniel Lee's mimology episode about giant pouched rats that wear backpacks and sniff out land mines. Oh, we love her and her rats. You were talking about whether or not you can cuddle them, and Meghan Hurt and Evan Davis both want to know. Meghan's husband wants to know can I kiss them or if they do they like little kisses on the head. I'm going to guess that's a no.
Again. Just the babies, Okay, just the babies.
Olivia Lester, first time question.
Ask her.
You just mentioned rats want us to know can they learn commands akin to rats?
I'm not aware of anyone being able to train one with anything as impressive as rats are pretty smart. M hmm.
Okay, So I think this is all stemming from the can I Keevy be my best friend? And the answer is this is going to be a no unless you like cleaning up a lot of poop and just not a good idea. I'm sorry everyone. Heather Crane would like to know about their Do they also work like hands? Can they grab things with them?
Now? Actually, their feet are more adapted to being able to swim. They have web toes. Yeah, so they can dive and they can stay underwater for quite a bit of time. I think like two two and a half minutes. They can stay underwater when they dive. So they have little web toes, which makes them not great for grasping anything, but good for swimming.
Do they have really big lungs for that or just slow metabolism.
Just slow metabolism. Wow.
Sarah King and Olivia Lester would like to know about their dogs. What's the average penis size for a capubera Sarah would like to know.
So, I don't have an exact measurement, but it's kind of dog size, you have the average dog. What's funny is that they're the penis is carried sort of inside a little pouch in the abdomen. It doesn't like dangle free, so to speak. And so when we would catch them, I would have to like massage their abdomen to see if anything popped out, okay, And it got to be sort of a talent like the locals. The locals would take their guesses and then I was there's a there's
there's a yeah, a claim to fame for you. It's like yeah, I was really good at getting the dog to fling out.
You got to know the whole thing, Yeah, all of it, from big nose to tail. Speaking of tails, Mattie Barnard, Mamma By and Dad Ossie marcule It wants to know do they have functional tails? Olivia wants to know why don't they have long tails like other rodents?
So they don't have tails really, And again it's if you think about, like a guinea pig doesn't have a tail, and this I'm going to flip the question backwards and be like, well, why would they need a tail? And if they don't need one, why waste the tissue?
Right?
Right?
So, if you think about a tail as being good for flicking off bugs or something that get on your back, will they have a really thick hide so the average mosquito and things isn't really going to bother them too much. Or a tail might be for communicating, like we think of in dogs wagging a tail. I'm happy, my tail gets stiff, I might be scared. Well, they have their scent glands to communicate, so it's just that they don't
really have a use for one. And so in an evolutionary sense, the way we think of it is that the energy is better spent being devoted to other.
Things, Like I don't need a tractor, so why would I have a tractor? Exactly, But you need answers about body language and behaviors. Rachel Kate's, Hennegory, Aurora, Ariaga, Alfie Holmes, Jackline Campsey and Emma who had the all caps question why are they so silly? Which dovetails well into chime Witch's question. Do they have their own body language? And is it easy to pick up on?
So I'm sure that they do, but no, it's not easy to pick up So in terms of anything subtle, right, I mean, they have the clicks in the chirps, and they will groom each other sometimes and give each other like snorts there if they're angry. But in terms of anything subtle, not that I could tell. But again, they're so thick bodied. They also don't have a lot of flexibility, so I think they're limited a little bit in sort of their repertoire of fancy movements because they're so stalky.
Well, these questions from patrons kind of shocked me. Stephen Moxley says, they look so friendly and kind, but I've heard they can really throw down and fight, and Angela Clark says, I worked at a zoo over the summer and one secret we kept from the public is that our adult female Cappy, was a murderer. She killed two other kapaberas that they thought she'd gotten used to. What's
up with that? Terman still wants to know. Is this a sea otter situation where they look really cute but are actually very evil See our Lutronology episode about otters to shock and to horrify you. But capaberas are not sea otters.
They're territorial. They will get into gang wars if two groups from different territories come next to each other too close. But also the males have a dominance hierarchy, so the dominant male will basically beat the begeebas out of a male that tries to challenge him, and the dominant male will try to be the only one that mates with
the females by chasing others off. Subordinate males can sometimes be sneaky and sort of catch a female when the dominant is you know, off eating or something like that. But so they do get to sneak some fun time in there. But they can get really nasty. I've seen some pretty nasty wounds from them fighting during the night
when they're wandering. So during the day they tend to sleep because it's so hot, so they sleep more during the day, and then at night they might be more likely to be up moving around and then get into fights and scrapes and things. So yeah, those teeths can do damage.
Oh Aliyah Cephalu, first time question asker, knowing that maybe people will change their minds, but wants to know if you've heard about or been to the Cabebat cafe in Tokyo. A lot of people mentioned this. I did not know there was one, thoughts.
I would love to see it. Oh my goodness, now I want to go. So I have not been, and it really makes me curious because now I just have all kinds of questions. How close can you get? How tame are they so once they get habituated and are used to people being around. There was one even at the ranch that would let people come up and pet her, so they can't. Once they're convinced that people are safe, then they can be, you know, okay with being pett and stuff. So yeah, that could be cool. I can't
imagine it. It smells real good. I don't know why you would want to eat in the same area, but.
I'll look at the trip Advisor reviews and see you what they think. Okay, So I looked at videos and reviews, and it seems that they will crawl right up on your lap if you're holding a fistful of arugula or something. And as far as the vibe, the capa Beerra in the videos I saw appear much more low key than a guy on a zoom call at Starbucks. It's very
chill environment. And a TikTok I watched described their fur is feeling like you're petting a coconut or a broom, and a Reddit post about the ethical issues of these individual animal cafes shared their own report that the one they went to, the Capubreras looked happy. They could roam freely, and the staff would kindly ask you to wait for them to come up to you in your seat so
it was not possible to corner them. I also poked around trip Advisor, and then I asked my husband your pod mother, Jared Sleeper, to please read one actual review that deserved to be savored orally, and.
Found it to be a wonderful intimate experience. I had envisioned a petting zoo, but it's really getting your own one on one time with the animals. Every step of the process was translated to English, and we were able to purchase fresh greens and sugar cane for a nominal fee over the provided dry food, and they loved it. Such sweet animals. I think Miss Ringo Apple is still grieving the loss of ron Boy, but Miss Potato could put her grief aside for yummy food well worth the trip.
Excellent.
As for the Pooh factor, I saw videos from some cabberret cafes that looked very clean and tidy, like the lobby of a nice office building, and others that were hasterewn with peeling floors. I'm not a capeberra. We all know that I've never been chased by a jaguar in the wild, but I'm sure that cabberts would rather be in the wild smearing their noses on rocks and having harerums and intercourse. So look within yourself and do your own research, folks. So I hope that answers your questions.
Beth and Patrons, Austin, Broadwater Natalie Jones, Celeste Not My Sister, Russo, Emily lou Mindy and Elias Safalo, Reagan Candara wants to know if they fart a lot.
They do.
They do, okay, and they fart underwater and they have to see the bubbles. Oh my god, it's so entertaining.
Well, you know that.
Actually that goes well with a question we had so many people wanted to know about spa life. Okay, I'm saying your name's fast, but I'm holding you deer in
my heart. Rieka Putnam Stella and Claire Millennial, Niki Juliet Jesse, Jordan Boudreaux, Frankie z Hiragane, Mandy Smith, Patronicole, Emmas Rosie Are Lookay Grace and first time question asker is Daphnie Claudier, Ruben Numart and Carrie Chin and Carrie's words, why do they always seem to be relaxing in a spa love that for them though, and why we see so many videos of like Captive Kapibera's just enjoying the spa life.
Because it's really hot where they're from. That's as simple as it is. They spend a lot of time in the water, because it's freaking hot.
Really Okay, So then if they were, say, taken to the Cleveland Zoo or if they were taken to the Seattle Zoo, would they still want to bob around in a jacuzzie of their own hearts or not?
They're still attracted to the water. It's because now it's just part of it's part of their genetics that they're attracted to water. I'm sure they wouldn't spend as much time in the water. So there's two ideas for why they defecate and urinate in the water. One is just that, well, they're always around the water and that's where it is. And the other is that that hides it from predators.
Oh got it, so that they don't leave like a trail of.
M and ms, and particularly with the urine the smell of urine.
Oh okay, But they're scent marking glands they're fine with.
Yeah, okay, But scent glands tend to be like pheromones. Those are for the same species capu bears talking to capubers. Okay, as far as I know, other animals do not react to their scent gland.
Oh that's handy, right, Because jaguars have like a very pungent kind of smell that I imagine other animals could smell.
Right, Yeah, okay, so apparently it's like secret Capyberra code.
Big blocky spies. Who knew?
Yeah, there you go.
Kate Hammon and Tilden Mills wants to know how long they live for what's her life span?
Like?
So we think it's about six to seven years in the wild. It's really hard to tell. They haven't been popular enough in zoos for long enough for us to really have a good handle, at least the last time I checked on how long they live in zoos. But yeah, in the wild, we think six to seven years.
Okay, so not real long. Yeah, not real long, not as long as I would have hoped for.
They live hard and fast, they harden, get.
Out, take a few risks live. Is that typical for an animal of that size.
Yeah. If you think about in dogs, like the larger dog breeds tend to not live as long. Yeah, so yeah, bigger rodent not live as long.
Ah, that's sad. But if they trade in their freedom for fame and they live in a zoo, they'll have an average life span of twelve years in captivity. Never hungry but never out of the spotlight. Meg Kelly asked very important, very scientific question, have you heard the Cappy Barral song? And Molly Rubb, Rachel Weiss, Leanne Murray, Lauren Hurlbert, Timmy h Storm, Delie Dames and Earl of Gramblican also
needed her thoughts on this earworm of a bop. Others want to know how you feel about the Cappy Bary song that's been on TikTok. I'm unfamiliar, but I'm sure that people have sent that to you.
The Kapi Bearra song that's out now is just the lyrics are Capi Berra, Capi Berra, keby Berra capy Barra. So it's cute, but I'm hoping for something with a little more nuance to it. I might have to write one. I just have to write one.
I think that you're the songwriter that the world needs right now. You can cram a lot of facts in a few minute song.
Everybody's looking for a side gig these days, right that could be my side gig.
Listen, we live in the hellscape of hustle culture, but how is life for capies, asked Marie ka Oliver Kellis, Finn Marksen Deanna Roberson, German Sill, and Tina Robbins. A lot of people want to know. Sadly, Scott Sheldon says Debbie Downer here, but with the destruction of the Amazon, are they okay? I doubt thriving, but okay. The Joyful Spitfire wants to know how has deforestation impacted the capy Bera.
So, of course deforestation is affecting everything. The advantage that the Cape Beara has is they are so versatile. So they are found in forests along rivers because they want that water, so they are in riparian forests, but they're also in open grassland and open savannah. There are pockets where they're doing very well and then pockets where they are not. It's sort of a challenge to really say, so,
are they threatened or endangered or not? Well? Do we want to look at the whole distribution of throughout South America or are we just talking about one region because in one region they might be in trouble, but in another region they're doing okay. Ah, So for right now they're overall numbers, they're not considered threatened at this point.
That's surprising. For some reason, I would think that because they're so weird and because they're on the end of a bell curve in terms of size and adorability, that of course they would be threatened.
Well, this is where they get lucky because they like the same habitat as cows, and we have a lot of space for our cows. So Venezuela, Argentina, Brazil, big agricultural culture there, and so the agricultural lands can also support the capibars. So they happened to share a habitat that we have a vested interest in protecting as well because it feeds our cows.
Okay, but some places like these wetlands outside of Buenos Aires in Argentina have been shrinking. The habitat is shrinking due to luxury real estate being built. And this one very expensive gated neighborhood saw a rise in wild Capibera populations during COVID lockdowns because the quiet streets gave them room to rome and it fostered a new boldness in them, and they started milling about in empty intersections. They were grazing on lawns and rose bushes. Sometimes they would run
eerily fast toward delivery drivers. Capuberras probably loved it, but the residents did not, and a cologists had to remind people in the neighborhood that, hey, this is not an invasion of capy beerra. You are living on their turf. You're lucky the capu beer is. Let's just stay here. And I haven't looked at any Zillow listings for the area, but personally I would be stoked to see some real estate photos with a capy bear on the deck or in the hot tub. But speaking of a cology, Alice
ruben wanters know what ecosystem services do they provide? And do cattle ranchers want to kick the cabeberras off the land because they're eating all the grass, or they like, you can come through here.
It's fine the capy bearra is because they're trimming the grass back, but they don't take the roots. They actually help the grass grow better and they're not trampling on it. Right, So the problem with cows is they eat the grass, but then they trample the ground and it's just mud. H Well, the capy bearers trim the grass without trampling the ground, so they're actually good for it.
And is there enough water nearby that they can do their thing?
If there isn't They're not there?
Okay?
Basically so in the managed areas, the water is often managed as well, with different dikes and small dams and things to make sure that even in the dry season there's still water availability, depending on what that land is being managed for, either for cattle ranching or as an eco lodge or as some sort of preserve.
Okay, you're not going to have like a duck farm without a little pond on it, right, right, right? Yeah? And why do capybas take like ducks to water? Cape beers breed in the spring and they're pregnant for about five months, so why if they are virgos and libras, why are they such pisces? What's up with the water thing? Shizam X, Valerie Handling, Morgan Darling, Janey Chones, Bonnie M. Rutherford, Emily P. Tory, Baggett, kay Getz and b He's a Party,
Mara Rosenblooms, Punky Asspecky, the Sassy Seacrest. Scientists Polytar and first time question askers Rachel A and Hellie Mickley wanted to know what is up with their life aquatic? Do they need really big wide bodies of water? To hang in or is anything fine?
What would be adjusted is the group size. So like, for instance, in the forests where they're along rivers, they tend to have much smaller groups than in the open savannah, where there can be larger bodies of water, like larger in area but not very deep. Okay, which is you know fine for them? You know, in the forest, I think there's group sizes of like five to six animals. In the savannah, I had a group that got up to about ninety individuals before it split into two groups.
Could you slide into one of those groups unnoticed and just live their vegan pool side lifestyle? Steel drop Handa asked, how do I apply to become a capebera? Kind of done with being a monkey tbh, Steel drop Handa, I get it for both of us. Do they nap? Are they just sleeping like calves? They kind of PLoP down and take a nap.
Yeah, they don't sleep all night, they don't sleep all day. They sort of have this just a twenty four hour cycle of we nap for a while, we eat for a while, we nap for a while, we eat for a while, and just kind of in little shorter bursts.
It sounds like vacation aft. Yeah, Jesse p, Melissa Po, and Alice Rubin, great question. They want to know. Please explain why pelicans want to try to eat capy beras. You know, you've seen those videos where a pelican is like trying to size up whether or not it could fit a cafe be in its pouch.
Like are they just dreamers? Yeah? I would think that. Yeah, the babies might be a snack because the babies, especially if the babies are near the water, pelican might be it just looks like a big hairy fish and then they just get ahead of themselves when they go for something bigger.
The pelican's been talking to the pope.
Yeah right.
Someone asked about pleisisine era capy beras that were the size of bison. True.
False.
Yeah, there was that fossil found, but just one of them. Well, I mean, fossils are hard to find, right, so if there was one, there were more. We just haven't found very many fossils of them.
We just found that one. I say we, as though I had anything to do with that. Lisas Kanyon Maguli first time questionsker, why aren't there one hundred and forty pound squirrels so I.
Could be flip and say because there's one hundred and forty pound capu beers.
There, you go.
So, but it has to do with the limitation of habitat. So if you think about up in the north, there are no capuberras because the weather is just the habitat is just too extreme. You have to be able to have enough food to sustain your body over the winter. And so a little squirrel body can be sustained over the winter by the nuts that they you know, scavenge away. But that's not going to do it for a capu
beerra or something that, you know, something that large. And then when you get further south and you get into the nicer weather, then they would have to compete with the kepibers.
It's kind of like niche science. Yeah, and aniche ology scurritiology with the lovely doctor Karen Monroe, which is all about squirrels. What about family ties? Okay, So Chris Moore wanted to know if Capybera's cash food like many of their rodent kin. Someone else wanted to know if they cash their food like other rodents. But there's no need to cash grass, right, correct? Nice do they ever come upon shrubs that are psychoactive, like there's so much yabramat down there, right, yeah, not that.
We're aware of. But again they're so chill. Anyway, how would we know? What would a trip in kapy Berra look like?
I don't know. Did you drink a lot of your ramat when you were down there at all?
No? I didn't, actually, because that's more Brazil and Argentina, Okay, more than it was popular where I was.
Okay, where I was, it.
Was the mushrooms that were growing out of the cowpoop is what people really wanted me to collect for them. But of course I was doing a dissertation, so I was like, you guys, enjoy those. I've invested way too much.
Please see the mycology episode all about mushrooms of all kinds. But the caby bears aren't much on them, No, not that we've ever seen. Interesting, Amy Martin, first question is are you familiar with who post Malone is?
Yes?
Amy Martin would like to know why do they look so much like post malone? Very specific question.
They're just lucky, I guess.
Okay, so kapy Bears, I look this up. They have fewer face tattoos and post malone has probably zero sticky musk glance. But in this viral tweet a few years ago, it became obvious that the singer Rapper Actor's golden brown mustache resembled two capy bears meeting midlip for a kiss. And if that wasn't intentional, he is the luckiest man in the world. Rachel Gardner was vulnerable and honest and says, I'm irrationally afraid of them. Is there a cabe beret fact that will help me love them?
Think of them as guinea pigs instead of rats?
Okay, all right, And if you're afraid of guinea.
Pigs, well then that's a little tougher. But they they like popsicles. Oh it's hard to be afraid of something that's licking on a popsicle.
So maybe look for their more relatable activities.
Yeah, yeah, amazing.
Oh, Heather Livingston, how fast do their hearts beat? Pretty slow?
That's a good question. I'd have to look it up. I'm sure that information is out there somewhere.
Yeah.
I would expect their heartbeat to be a little slower because of the grass diet.
Okay. For heartbeat facts, you can please see the twenty twenty one study Evaluation of a laryngeal mask airways an alternative to autotracheal intubation for maintaining airway potency during inhalent anesthesia under spontaneous ventilation in capaparis, which seems to mention it's about sixty seven bees permitted. I don't know what a races too when they sniff some musk, or how low it gets with an orange on their head. Jenna Congden says, has theologist who shares my last name ever
given one a good scratch between the ears? Life goals right there. But I mostly just wanted to shout out that Jenna Congdon shares your last name and maybe you're related.
That's awesome. I'm like, Hi, Jenna, you gotta check that out. It's not a very common last name. Sadly, when we were measuring them and tagging them and stuff, I would give them little belly scratches and yeah, I mean, if I'm gonna palpate their belly for their penis, then you know they deserve a little scratch to scratch.
Pavka thirty four wants to know has anyone ever tried to use capybara as beasts of burden. Have they been used for carrying packs or has anyone ever tried to use them as livestock that way, not that I know of.
Because they're territorial. I think that they just wouldn't willingly go very far. They'd be like as far as I walk, you know. Yeah, but it does seem like that ought to be Yes, fit one with a saddle. You ought to be able to put a nice little pack on them.
I'm sure someone has probably to peril on both sides. Not recommended. So I looked for photographic evidence of someone saddling at Capivera, and y'all, I found none, so I think that's good news. But I did find a saddle bag made of quote distinct capy bear a suede exteriors a bummer. I understand if you need some emotional support after this. Speaking of mental health, Olivia Lester, first time
question asker asked therapy animals, and yes. According to the twenty seventeen article pet therapy with a twist, kapy Bera, Kinkaju and owls sooth stressed students, capy Bera have lowered the heart rates of people who need some of their chill. I don't know how the animals like it though, So I guess look for reputable sources of capy Bera proximity, or you can just stare at their videos and you can vibe to Capyberra Capuvera music. What about fun for them?
How do they kick back? You wanted to know Rica Putting and longtime listener Spencer. I assume that they run around and have fun and you know, look for food and everything. But they're just always looking so chill to us, and I just want to know why. And also Max Chanterrell for some question asker wants to know what brings them whimsy or do they appear like they're having fun? Do they play?
The juveniles definitely play. They wrestle and they play and they flop around in the water and they have a good time.
Okay, that sounds just delightful to watch. But something's got to talk about your job. Some sucks about every job, But is there a part of your work that's your least favorite.
It's very difficult to study animals without at some point causing them at least a little bit of discomfort. And so when we capture them to ear tag them and stuff, Like I said, we don't use a sedative because we don't want to have that negative side effect. But you know, we just stressed the little babies out, So that was very stressful for me. And it's also it's very hot, so we have to be really careful that we don't let them get overheated. So that was absolutely the most
stressful for me. Is the capturing.
Would you have to spram with some water keep them cool down?
Yeah?
And I lost one and it was just it was a horrible, horrible day. The cowboys, the Jennetos they're called, captured like four or five all at once, and as I was processing them, by the time I got to the last one, it had been you know, sitting still in the hot sun for like thirty minutes and he had a heat stroke. Oh yeah, and it was really horrible.
And you're out there doing a lot of the field work kind of solo and media.
Hideta my collaborator from univers Nadimon Bliber, he went out with me the first couple of days of capturing to make sure that I could communicate. So the area the savannah is called the yanos in Venezuela, and so the cowboys that work there are Janneros. And Yanero Spanish is different than city Spanish, and so there was a certain amount of training for me to be able to communicate with the yanetos to do the capturing. But once I got used to that, then it was me, me and
the yananos. I would go sometimes a couple of weeks without speaking to anybody other than the animals.
Did you have to develop ways to make sure you were taking care of yourself too, in the heat and in the hard physical work and that kind of isolation away from home.
Oh, absolutely, Yeah. Luckily there was electricity and so I had a computer. You know, there was no internet and there were no phones. So I had a couple of DVDs and a couple of movies I have. I watched the English version, in the Spanish version, of the French version, the director's commentary. I had to memorize and read books. And it was hard for me at first because as a graduate student you're just told go, go, go, you
get more data, more data, more data. And there were days when I just had to let myself rest and just take a day off and just lay in my hammock and just be you know. But it was an amazing experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.
What were the movies?
My sister sent me cast Away, which was hilarious because I was like, this is not helping how I feel because she send you a volleyball to hilarious. And then the other one was I Know, I had shuck a lot, and then we drew a chess board on a tablecloth and made a chess set out of an old egg carton. At different times, I had undergraduate students would come and assist me in the field, and so I would have somebody there with me for a couple months at a time. I had two come down from the US, and then
a couple from Venezuela and a couple from Peru. So it was also great way to give undergraduates an opportunity to experience that. And then they also kept me company.
Well, what about your favorite thing about your work? I don't know, I don't know how you're going to pick, but yeah, what's the best thing about being a cafe vera expert?
I really learned how to just sit and watch them, and I could just sit quietly and have such a piece. I mean it sounds cliche, but also being there, I saw so much other stuff. A giant ant eater carrying.
A baby, not a human baby.
The birds, oh, the ibises and the scarlet ibises and storks and ocelots, I mean, just amazing wild like the anaconda's oh oh my god. Oh yeah, they were amazing and so yeah, so just all of that experience, right, and I got to just sit there and watch them.
Did you ever have to get any training on what to do with an anaconda's looking at you like lunch?
So the most I got was like tips on shuffling your feet if you were walking through water, you shuffle your feet so that you don't step on the back of a sting ray because then it stings you in the foot, and so that you kick an anaconda instead of stepping on it. And I'm like, oh, that doesn't that's not comforting at all. It's not really sure, no, not at all. And then I asked once about well, what do you do if you get stung by a stingray? And they said, don't get stung.
Okay, all right, that's a strategy, Like, oh, okay, I'm willing to bet that ant Beth is definitely the most interesting person at any dinner party, and I just it's been such a privilege to talk to you. I was so thrilled that you said yes to this.
Well, this was so much fun. I love the opportunity to talk about them. It's so great.
Well kapy bears for.
Life, Yes, yes, ya? And what at hydrocherologists. Yes, I'm gonna put that on my resume. Yeah, I like it. It's all yours.
So ask chill experts, not chill questions about chill creatures, and adopt dog or guinea pig pretended to Capyberra. You'll have a much easier time with poop probably markcuddles. But thank you so much, doctor Congdon for hanging out, making my dream episode come true, and for killing our hopes of waking up with a Capybera snoozing on our pillow, loving us. It hurts, but we needed the truth. And For more about Beth's charity of choice, you can see the link in the show notes. We also have more
research up at aliwar dot com slash hydrocaryology. Don't worry about it's linked in the show notes. Google ologies, Capybert take you right there. We also have smologies. There are shorter g rated episodes Those are also linked in the show notes Patreon dot com, slash Ologies, We've got ologiesimerch dot com. Thank you Aaron Talbert for admitting the Ologies podcast Facebook group. Thank you Avelene Malick and the Wordery
for making our professional transcripts. Noel Dilworth is our scheduling producer. Susan Hale is our managing director and make sure that we are functional. Kelly Ardwyer makes our website and can make cures. And our Queen of the Grasses is Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Addio, who is our lead editor. Nick Thorburn made the music. And if you stick around until
the end of the episode, I tell you secret. And this week it's that I was eating yogurt and sometimes I let my dog g Remy lick the bowl because she's like yogurt, and I let her lick the spoon and then I forgot that I did that, and then I licked the spoon afterward, which is disgusting. But she's also my daughter, so grosser things have happened, probably all right, Abye pacadermatology, hobiology, ydo zoology, lithology, technology, meteorology, paratology, anthology, zeriology, selenology.
I am covered in Cappy Barrett slobbery.