Oppenheimer (2023) - Christopher Nolan

Welcome to the Oh Brother Podcast with hosts Dan and Mike Smith , brothers from the same mother with different opinions on movies , tv , video games and more , plus celebrity interviews . Get ready , get set , it's time for the Oh Brother Podcast . Welcome to the Oh Brother Podcast . I'm your host , Dan Smith .

And Barbie is still number one four weeks .

It's smashing records . I mean , greta Gerwig now is the . She set records . She passed the director of Frozen 2 . Yeah , the highest grossing female director of all time . All right , so this is not a Barbie episode . This is the Obrother Oppenheimer episode , as I said .

Which is closely associated . Right it is , it came out the same day .

That's right , there was this whole barbenheimer hype and whatever , but okay , so let's set this up a little bit . So this came out July 21st , so we're a little bit , yeah , we're a little late . Which was close to the anniversary of what is the focal point of this film , which is the , you know , the first testing of the atomic bomb . Right , and of course .

Okay , 301 to be perfectly .

Well , exact , not . According to IMDB , three hours exactly .

Yeah , mine came up 301 .

They round down , all right . So , yeah , just focused on the Trinity test that took place in Los Alamos , new Mexico it was . Now I have something to share with you is we know it was filmed in IMAX , right , and not , certainly not .

Nolan , he always films in .

IMAX . Exactly , I saw the film in IMAX . Oh , you didn't tell me that . Which I didn't tell you . Now , I had tickets to see it in the regular theater . Last minute switcho change . Oh , my girlfriend actually makes the suggestion , or it brings up IMAX . So you know me quickly . Oh , your IMAX . Okay , let's do , I'm jealous .

Wow you remember so you know the screen I'm talking about , that's great it's 10 stories yeah .

And this is , I mean , the side . Okay , it's a huge , but it wasn't nothing to write home about in terms of an IMAX experience . Now I have to real quick . You know we saw some trailers . You know we've done first looks on all these movies , dune 2 and all this stuff . Dune 2 , I was more excited about it . Seeing the trailer in IMAX Interesting , All right .

If you remember when we did Barvey , I said the thing about Barvey and Oppenheimer is the domestic release domestic release . I don't know why I said domestic Domestic yeah , but the domestic release in the .

Yeah , it was just the emphasis on the dough .

Yeah , and it was tracking the same as the international release . Well , that's changed . Both movies now have higher grosses internationally than domestically and Oppenheimer came in fourth last week behind Turtles and Meg 2 . This week back to number two .

Right .

Now , very rarely does a movie drop and go back up and go back up .

Yeah , I'm glad you point that out because with so much of the Oppenheimer hype , it's almost like I think it was unfair to expect or assume that this was going to go toe to toe with it in terms of box office . They're two different films , Right . I'm not surprised that there's a much broader audience being drawn to Barbie .

No , this is all rated movie , Right ? I mean numbers that no other R rated movie has done .

No , and again , if you haven't seen it yet , I'd recommend you see it in IMAX , if you can . And spoiler alert , because we're going to take a dive into the film . Let me quickly run down some of the top cast .

Really not a spoiler alert , given the fact that this is historic . This is a history .

No , but just in terms of the way it plays out in the film , or Nolan's interpretation of , or whatever . But you're right , it's based in history , right

Yeah .

Yeah , Tom Conti who played Einstein , who I thought was very good . There's many others and then Florence Pugh , who played Gene Tawson .

You're not going to bring up , solo I am . I'm getting to that .

Oh , okay . Yeah , I'm getting to that .

And then Florence Pugh . I didn't know him Didn't know him ?

Yeah , immediately . So I was so excited to see Alden Ehrenreich . He plays like an aide to Robert Downey Jr's character , strauss , and Robert Downey Jr is basically trying to vie for a seat on the president's cabinet is what this is all about .

Yes , and I mean he nailed it . He nailed it Ron Howard , who came in and saved that film . His direction is fantastic .

It is , it's great . I mean , you checked that one out too . But so I was excited to see him and he had a pretty significant part throughout the film Pretty big part .

I didn't know it was him till after the film I had to go to the Really I had to look it up . I stayed for the credits but I missed his name .

Yeah , there's some others , you know . Since we're talking about it , I just want to mention Scott Grimes . Did you recognize him ? He was also . He was the general counsel for Robert Downey Jr . The other kid that was sort of it was either Alden Ehrenreich or Scott Grimes or something .

Right , did you ?

recognize him at all ? No , I didn't . He's been around for a long time . I knew him . He's from Lowell , Massachusetts . He's a local boy . Local boy , yeah , but he was in . I was trying to figure it out and after the fact we looked him up and he was in Party of Five , which I used to watch .

Oh .

I've never seen it and that's where I kind of burned in my brain . But he did a nice job .

But I do know his name yeah .

Matthew Modine . I miss seeing Matthew Modine . I feel like he's an underrated actor .

Especially , what was the movie he did with Michelle Pfeiffer ? He played Mike Smith . Oh , did he really ? And I used to get ribbed about that all the time . He , that was his . He made up the name when he met Michelle because he was supposed to be spying on her .

Oh , so I don't think I saw that one . Yeah , you know , this is the one that blew me away and I couldn't get it again until after the movie was over . But I'm like , I know this guy knows Josh Hartnett , right and a huge part in the right . Right Looks great .

Yes , different , but looks different , and I'll tell you the killer yeah , that's , that's how he normally looks . He did a fantastic job what ? About the best cameo of cameos was Gary Oldman . Gary Oldman was , he was Truman , he was a frickin' Truman . It was only a minute of film .

I know I intentionally didn't say anything to her until after and I leaned over and said did you reckon I because she loves Gary Oldman , Dracula and all that , and didn't know it . But yeah , what a spectacular . Of course I knew immediately who was , but I did too .

But you know the voice , the makeup accent was it was perfect , it was incredible . And Truman was a salty character and in the one minute he was on film he captured Truman like I've never seen .

Now I know the movies made about , I know I'm going to get his name wrong and I know Johnny Durango , who we love on the show , is friends with with this gentleman , but he's been in the dark for a night .

You know he's in the know , I know , I know who you're talking about . He played like he had a small part .

He was in Suicide Squad with the like the the doc .

That's right , the doc guy yes .

Right , that's right , it's David Das Malshin . I'm sure I'm butchering David's name Right and he was . He was great in this as well and very recognizable .

Right as soon as I saw him . I well , because Christopher Nolan works with the same actors .

Yeah , but David's a Chicago guy like Johnny , so you know the connection there .

Yeah .

So , anyways , I think that covers most of them . Now I got to say do you want to ? I mean , like you said earlier , do we need to give us an opposite to the film or anything ?

I don't think so . The only thing I would say is there was more to the relationship with Einstein than he portrayed in the film . That was about the only thing he got wrong , I thought , and you know what he could have done .

He could have it's three hours long . There is a good 20 minutes that could have been cut . Perhaps used in a different manner , like you're saying . Maybe bring up the Einstein relationship .

Right .

A little bit more

I see an un-pressed .

Florence Pugh's performance in this film .

No , honestly , I don't think I would have cut a minute of the film . If anything , I would have gone longer .

That storyline did not propel it forward whatsoever . You could have completely cut that and you wouldn't have been lacking anything .

No , but no , that is .

If , unless it was to further talk about or illustrate his character , that sort of behind the theorist , the theoretical physicist that people knew him to be Right , I don't know , would you call him a womanizer . Is that going too far ?

Well , I think he stopped short of that , but it was part of his character and he did leave his wife , and so I think the history is correct . You could have implied that without yeah .

Completely mean . And there's a scene again spoiler alert here , because there's a scene where her character isn't in it . Let's just say for the whole duration Is that a way .

Yeah , that's just good Spoiler alert , but I'm also trying to be protective of it .

Right , and it was very confusing because in a flashback or it's like a flashback sequence that Oppenheimer is having and Emily Blunt , his wife Kitty , comes to console him and he's basically just found out that . Well , I'm going to give it out now , so turn the channel and come back if you haven't seen .

No , I think you know , I saw it opening weekend . Yeah , it's been a while and I vaguely that's in my head I can see it what you're saying , but I don't remember it enough .

She gets on her knees and basically she takes some pills and then she gets on her knees and puts her head underwater .

And a couple of times she comes into play because she calls him and says I need you , and he stops everything and goes to help her and his wife is like what are you doing ? And he's like she needs me . What can I do ?

Yeah , she needs me

So , did you notice .

I didn't know this . We looked into this after the fact as well , because we were trying to determine the use . But the perspective from Robert Downey Jr is all in black and white . Yes , so if you're not , if you didn't pick up on that when you watched the film , like I didn't at the beginning , that's really just to emphasize .

This is through his perspective and it also flips the time a little bit , although you know , see , originally I thought that was the device that Nolan was using , but it wasn't .

No . In his own words , it was to just differentiate between . This is his perspective .

Because the story is told by Robert Downey Jr talking to his aide , and also it's told first person by Oppenheimer , when he's talking to the committee and answering questions and basically laying out the story . And what is the committee you're talking about ? I forget what they were calling .

Well , he was accused of being a communist , correct . This is at a time in history when you know you had the McCarthy hearings going on and in fact McCarthy was the district attorney at the time .

So he was on this witch hunt Right To use a phrase that we hear too much . He was on a witch hunt to get these communists people who were meeting to discuss the work of Karl Marx then that makes me and you a communist , because we've done that .

Let's bring sympathizers and all of this Correct . And if you're , you're converting with the Russians and all any any hint of that Right . And so he was under the microscope of this hearing , but it turns out . Here's what I . The reason I'm I'm getting into this part of the story is if you think back to the trailer , there's a , there's a .

or something like that right .

Mm-hmm , you think it's . He's referring to the development of the atomic bomb and what they're gonna be used for ultimately . And you can speak again about your time in Japan . We'll get to that but he's really talking about the committee Correct ?

this whole thing's a farce , and it was a farce laid out by Strauss , played by Robert Downey Jr . He was behind the scenes pulling all the strings . That's right .

Which eventually got Oppenheimer's security clearance pulled correct which is true and he no longer had access to any of the atomic right , the nuclear sort of Records , secrets , whatever Strauss is , what the godfather would say a pass , an avante pass on about Michael right , I love that phrase yeah but in the tally in in the Story by Oppenheimer he had plenty of

His wife was more involved with it . He never signed Because you actually used to be able to sign up and you would get like a communist card right and his wife did all that . So I think part of the Florence pew aspect was kind of Cleansing himself of the baggage that Emily blunt had . Yeah , yeah whether or not that's going too far , I don't know .

Yeah , it was a very interesting relationship I mean she had . Obviously she had issues with the bottle , right , you know . And issues with raising kids . Yes , correct , I mean they . Literally . At one point , oppenheimer brings their first child , peter , to like their French shovel .

And and all Oppenheimer was after yeah with Strauss was to get a meeting with the president To say we don't have to use this weapon . The mere fact that we can show it exists is Is enough to sit down and talk and we saw where the president Truman at the time was landing on the issue .

Because Right get that wine or out of here . I don't let that cry baby back into my office , correct , oppenheimer ?

Yes .

Because he was yeah , he was trying to advocate for . It's interesting because do you think Oppenheimer again and how he's portrayed in the film , do you ? Do you think he was as as conflicted as they were trying to ?

make it out to be yeah . Yeah , because I'll tell you what . A week before the movie came out , msnbc did a two-hour Oppenheimer especially . You can get it on DVD now and I Watched that before I watched the movie , so I had a lot of the history in my head Going in and he was conflicted like that . He says a lot , of .

Yeah , and I think he was . He was really kind of rolling the dice on the fact that just the mere presence of this thing Correct that we have this technology . We just need to tell them and show them the tests . As soon as the test , the military boom , load two up in the truck . Let's head to Japan . You know exactly .

And yeah , that was watching him watch the bombs , leave his presence . Yeah , like he lost control at that point .

Yeah , it's interesting . And you know what ? What it makes me think of is a line that was reiterated often throughout the film , which is theory can only take you so far . Yes , you know .

And then , ultimately , so and and the fear was when they were doing that test was a Because of nuclear fission and whatnot , that it was just gonna keep going like like when a Earthquake has aftershocks . You've probably never experienced that . I have .

I have have you , yeah , okay . So Maryland believe it or not ? Oh , wow , I didn't know it caused damage to the To the Washington Monument that they had a scaffolding remember that months . Yeah , all right now , mike , I'm gonna ask you to put on your your film hat your professor hat . Okay , we don't get out on this rabbit hole a lot , but I'm gonna .

I'm dying to get the 4k for this , yeah , to see how they did some of it .

But you would think he plucked the video , the actual test , and just kind of turn it into the film . You would know the difference and force .

Purse perspective is when something's flat , you know , I mean it can be a close , it makes a bigger smaller even . Yeah , and that's clearly what he did . These were little little explosions that he made look bigger , yeah , by placing the camera a certain way it was really phenomenal because most people I think Understandably so would just assume a CGI right .

But then when you read it and you read about how one of his Head people in the special effects and that whole department I mean how they they created this was , it's really using more old-school techniques than it is .

It is like in some cases it was lighting a match and just watching ahead of the match go .

I do like what Nolan did . When that Climax Arrives in the film of the test , the countdown , complete silence , right , all you hear is Oppenheimer's breathing , correct , while he's witnessing it . You know , behind whatever they built a shack fence .

Yeah , was he a little people ? Yeah , think about that . They had goggles . It was one guy that had all look . You know right , right , but they're all just there with goggles , the the military people just laid down on on mattresses that were like you know , they didn't even cover themselves yeah right , okay , don't turn around until we tell you to .

that people don't read our sarcasm , that you're not being serious .

Oh no , I know yeah yeah , exactly , we do get sarcastic on this letter so so you know it took care of . There was a fun to take care of the fallout for three states , but it didn't include Nevada , hmm , and a lot of people were upwind of the explosion . So it's just on the news .

Yeah , a test . Ironically , oppenheimer , you know he used to come to throat cancer because he was , as you can see in the film , he's a chain smoker . Right almost every photograph you see you a guy's got a cigarette in his hand and a pipe .

The pipe is the thing that I think Killian Murphy got , like the mannerisms , the hands on the hips all the time , and he didn't In an interview from Killian that I saw he didn't really seem to do a very deep dive .

He did enough just to grab the essence right . The rest is all him .

Which is amazing , and the reason he did that was he didn't want to do an impersonation . Right he wanted to play a character that had all these issues , but he he stole just enough mannerisms to nail it .

It was just really something to see and to see this again , I have to say to see it in IMAX . Yeah , we're an actor . I remember Robert Downey Jr Talking about this in a round table discussion they had Damon was there Emily Blunt . They were being interviewed for the for the movie before the strike and everything and .

Yeah , a lot of one and two shots , very , yes , very close up where . Remember , when the new Batman came out , I was like why didn't they film the car chase the way Nolan did from above ? And this he totally goes against his normal . Yeah you know , of course it's , it's hearings and you want to get in and see the sweat on people and right his .

His the building of tension throughout the film . Oh , it's unreal . Leading up to that , the test was just now , you were really tired when you went .

You had a long couple of days and Going into a three-hour movie I might have been like I'm gonna fall asleep , or this one kept me on edge .

Oh , yeah , for three hours , like I said I wouldn't have cut a frame . Yeah , I didn't , I didn't walk out going huh , you know , but it did seem like , because that is the climax , right , is that part . But of course you have to , you have to continue to tell the story of what occurred in Japan , and right .

And that that's not told . Right , in fact it ends with him getting an award and kind of getting , I mean it's it's , it's told a little bit , it's not a little bit .

In fact there's a scene where he's in some room and there I don't know what was going on , but they're there , you . They're clearly seeing footage of the aftermath of the bombings , and this , again brilliant , by Nolan right . We don't need to see . Most of us and I've seen those images anyways in our life through history we don't need to see it .

So now

Mike was with these two girls and they wandered away from the group .

No , they were much younger than I was and all the local authorities , folks , not at all , you know , attracted to an old guy like me .

It's amazing the relationship we have with with Japan . If you think about I mean yeah . Recalling the events it's .

It's kind of fascinating and it was , it was Truman overreacting clearly . I mean , yeah , they killed with what ? A thousand people on Pearl Harbor attack and it's it needed to be there , needed to be a response , but to wipe out .

Jones tells you the story .

Yeah , right , and he was riding his tricycle and the remains are all there . It's like it's . It's devastating to see that site and how we leveled it . Yeah , do you think a gasaki as well , you know ?

do you ? Yeah , and maybe to your point not having Gotten into that side of the story , I don't know Did you walk away with an understanding or a feeling of the monumental nature of what took place and what ?

Yes , yeah , you can't help it , and really I found myself more on the Japanese side of things than the American side . Like I said , it was an overreaction .

Well , it was interesting the scene where they're basically , you know , with the heads of the military . They're in the room and Oppenheimer's there and they're basically talking about the number of casualties that they know they're gonna inflict , Correct Right , and it was 100 times what they inflicted .

Now I'm not sympathizing or saying I'm not trying to diminish Pearl Harbor in any way . That was a devastating attack on our country , a day that will live in infamy , according to Truman , and he was right . But did that ? Did that the response of using the first atomic bomb ? I mean , it ended the war .

infamy speech . Yeah , I think you're ahead of the . I think you're .

Well .

Truman dropped the bomb . You know I'm thinking Right , but I'm thinking of you know I'm getting my history from . Disney From the American adventure . Yeah , you may be right , which is true .

Because there was an election , you know , and the president gets elected in November but doesn't

Well , right , but we're also talking about Was it 1941 or something ?

Yeah , it was December 7th obviously Right .

so yeah , but thank you to the American adventure past for helping us with the history .

No , the number is the same . I would be right on that 93 .

Barbie's well over a billion dollars , correct ? I mean , if you wanna go buy money , yeah , so more people saw Barbie Right .

But less people liked it . But would you rate this movie below Barbie ?

I would Well , it's not a pitting them against each other .

It's hard to .

They're so different , but I certainly agree with the ratings Right .

And I did for .

Barbie too . I thought that was fair , Right , I thought it was right that's about right , my brain .

an eating for Barbie was good .

But you can't compare the two .

No you can't put them head to head ? Not at all , I mean ridiculously different story and we enjoyed both films .

So clearly we enjoyed Oppenheimer . So you know , certainly I didn't know a lot about Oppenheimer . You know I of course was studying up as we were prepared to talk about it , but certainly after seeing the film . So I didn't wanna go in either way with any sort of expectations or an influence .

With the apple Right .

He put some science behind an apple . I mean really a friend of his from back then that this .

That's right . That's right , yeah , and he picked it up to take a bite , didn't he ? Well , kenneth Branagh was in the scene .

Yes and goes to any , swipes it from him and .

I forget what his excuse was . I think he threw it away , oh .

Wormhole yes , it was a nice phrase , you know say Wormhole . That was kind of funny , but but yeah , I don't know .

History's a little different than the movie , especially the Einstein stuff , of course , and he worked with Einstein , which they don't portray . They portray that he just passed him and said something .

And it was subtle , but which was brilliant , right , because that's where they show that same scene from both Oppenheimer's viewpoint and Robert Downey Jr's viewpoint . Correct . And Einstein knew what was up from the beginning . He knew from the jump .

He knew exactly he could have done it . He could have done it , he could have done it . And he basically in the movie , the way they chose to portray it is , he says to Oppenheimer this is your time , right , good luck you know you better get right with God .

Well , so what's your overall assessment here ? What's the answer ? Like I said , I'm right with Rotten Tomatoes .

I can't believe I'm saying that , but 93 is like very pot . I liked Robert Downey Jr . Sounds like you were a little skeptical of him .

No , I liked it . I just felt as though it was At one point it was like is this his film ? Like the story was as much about him as it was about Oppenheimer . I think that's fair to say .

Yeah , I mean , I never knew of Strauss until the movie , I didn't either . And to see that he played such a big part behind the scenes of what was going on . Like you said , he stopped and got him approval , and then Oppenheimer built this town .

And I had no idea that Han Solo was affiliated with the .

Trinity . I thought his character was a reporter when I first watched it . Yeah , it was an aide .

But he was an aide . No , we didn't mention Rami . Malek was in it , not a big part , but a significant part . Yeah , like a pivotal scene in the movie . Yes , but again , I didn't like it . I felt it was very contrived , it happened too quickly .

I don't know . I just didn't . I wasn't , and it looked like his aide took pleasure in Strauss getting it , did it was weird .

It was a little tempered . But yeah . I think ultimately Aaron Reich's character was like enjoying that he was yeah enjoy life on the cabinet , or whatever .

He said sarcastically Right right , Cause his career went in the toilet .

Where do you put this up ? There with Nolan's work , and where do you put this ? You know , of

Yeah , but that wasn't Nolan though no , I think that's the first time I saw Killian Murphy .

I think he has these piercing blue eyes .

He really does . Yeah , that you know . You look at him .

You're like like remember the episode of Seinfeld the Wiz , I'm the Wiz , I'm the Wiz , it's interesting you're bringing this up again because you did profess your love for him in the first look and I said that's a whole nother first look that we're talking about with Mike Laidey's on Killian .

We haven't seen something better yet .

No . And again , I just can't imagine what would top this . It's just wow , it's really , it's honestly .

And I put it in Christopher Nolan's , who's got a resume to put against any director out there ? This I would put on top .

Probably the dark night number two . Speaking of great directors , gareth Edwards is coming into his own kind of league , and he was , of course , the guy that directed Rogue One , which is up there . It's my top two Star Wars films of all time , but I saw before Oppenheimer . One of the trailers was the creator , which we also did a first look on .

But yeah , I'd love to see it . Imagine seeing it in the theater here , Because you know it was like the top five in the top five theaters .

Yeah , I'm due for a trip .

Yeah but Oppenheimer will be long gone . It will , yeah , but in fact it's already gone . I think .

No , it's still going strong here in IMAX . You know it was pretty good crowd . It wasn't full by any stretch , but it was pretty good crowd . Well , it's got legs and IMAX is not cheap , my friends Right right , it's got legs , because Oppenheimer continues to .

you know well , maybe now people like me , everybody that's seen Barbie ? Okay , have seen Barbie now let me go see Oppenheimer Correct .

Well , yeah , as you said , Oppenheimer's still kind of on a slow burn , but , yeah , great job . Another fine piece by Nolan and , just to get a spectacular performance by Killian Murphy , and the supporting cast were all really really good .

Just go see it , if you think you know the history , or if you do know the history , you'll have a couple of issues with it , like I did . But as far as filmmaking goes , it doesn't get better . It just doesn't get better . I haven't seen a movie this good this year and I don't think I saw one that good last year .

And I think the chances of us not liking this were near zero , Mike .

Probably .

Near zero . How about ? Zero would be good .

Given the reaction we had to the first look and the history of it all , this is one you gotta see . Gotta see it in the theater . Yeah

All right . So listen , that's a review on Oppenheimer here with the Old Brother Podcast . If you're not currently following us , make sure that you do go out to our official website , which is OHBpodcastcom . Mike , we of course have that on our lovely mug .

You can tell by the way they talk . Just like people can tell we're real brothers because we wanna reach through and grab each other by the road .

And I gotta say I wanna make it clear for the record , just in case our folks friends at FikaTalk don't If you listen to their episode let's see , I gotta get it right now , mike , hold on , let's see . So FikaTalk , which you can get on your favorite podcast platform , spotify , apple podcasts they're everywhere . Let's see , Mike , let's look at . I need to know .

These microphones , in fact Samsung .

Q2U the very ones we use , and from the moment I heard the first millisecond of that episode , I knew they were not using the mics . They might've been talking into them , but they weren't using them . I did recommend the mics to one of the hosts , Andrea , and so I said to her make sure that I expect a clarification on your follow-up .

Because they gave us a shout out when they weren't using the mic .

That's right . So it was not the greatest shout out . Let's be honest , they were shouting into nowhere .

People were probably like why did they listen to that ?

Now they've got a new episode out now called Arizona Limited Edition , part One , because they had taken a break from their podcast for a couple of years . So their listeners kind of have an interest now like hey , where you been ? What took place in the last two years ? So they're starting to release some episodes talking about that .

I think this was an episode of Fika . Talk at the same time .

There's Fika Talk . Right there , you got to show love for the fellow podcasters and I will expect that in return on episode 31 of the Fika Talk podcast . All right , well , mike , that's going to do it for our review of Oppenheimer and got a lot , like I said , coming up next with Halloween Fest and this interview and others .

No , I'm looking forward to the interview . I'm looking forward to getting into our Halloween mindset , yeah .

I can't wait . Because , it's hot right now . So , yeah , we got some first looks coming at you . We're going to cover some horror films . So , yeah , we got a lot coming in the next few months . Yeah , but that's going to do it for another episode of the Yo Brother podcast .