Welcome Office hours, when we sit down with the chief executives shaping the world and answer your most pressing questions about leadership, career, and life. I'm Mike Steib and today we welcome to the show. One of the funnest guys I know, Michael Stillman, is CEO of Quality Branded Restaurants and one of the most respected restaurant tours in America. Five of his restaurants are in the top fifty grossing in the nation, and nobody you will ever meet throws
a party like Michael Stillman. I'm so glad to have you on the podcast.
Man, pleasure to be here.
This is going to be a lot of fun.
I'm excited.
How many martinis do your restaurants produce every year?
You know what, that's a very good question. I would say probably about one hundred thousand martinis a year. One hundred thousand martinis a year. But honestly, I think being called the funnest man that you know, yeah, or one of the funnest man I want to know, is probably talking about the highlights of my week top five. Yeah, I'm glad to hear it.
One hundred thousand marties. If this was a consulting case interview. We would have to go, we would have to size the number of how many people go to the rest How many people go to the restaurants every year? It's twelve restaurants.
Approximately, you know, one hundred and twenty five to one hundred fifty thousand on average, so you annually. Yeah, so so.
One fourth of them have three or four of martable or a million. So over a million people go to the restaurants every year.
Yeah, over a million people.
One hundred thousand per restaurant, one.
Hundred twenty five to one hundred fifty thousand per restaurant on average.
Geez, from the outside, somebody would not appreciate that. You come in to the restaurant, you sit, you eat, and you leave. How much volume you guys are doing every day.
It's a lot. People always take a look at it and they say, oh, you seem so crowded at seven o'clock. And I said, but are you crowded at five o'clock? Are you crowd at nine o'clock? Or you crowded at two o'clock.
I can't get a table. I can get a table, but you can't get a table. We have got a bunch of questions from folks, some who are big fans of your restaurants, some who just love restaurants in general. A lot of people want to understand how the business works. And I'm going to go right to the first one. It is from our friend Michael Misslansky. Michael was on the pod a couple of weeks ago and he left a question for you, and his question is, as a frequent.
Visitor to your restaurants, you have an amazing ability to build restaurants that are so much fun for the consumer, which I think is not usually the case. So often restaurants are built for the executive chef. How is it that you kind of bottle that differently in every restaurant to create these wonderful experiences no matter where you go.
Tell all of us what does it take to make for a fun night, or a fun restaurant or a fun vibe. That's an incredible question. I like the question, and the questionner. You know, I would start with saying, lighting something on fire always helps. Okay, what kind of things do you generally let on fire? I mean, you can light anything on fire. You can like drinks on fire, you can like food on fire, you can like guests on fire.
You got to put them out. But you know, you've got to make a show. You've got to make a little bit of a spectacle, you know. Honestly, I think we think about ourselves as having sort of a reverend sense of humor, and I think that's part of the core of fun is starting by not taking yourself so seriously. Right.
So I got to drink at Quality branded and it came in a ceramic peacock of some sort and I had to kind of drink out of the tail. It was a good drink, but it was definitely a scene.
My wife is a corporate attorney, and she complained to me that those drinks looked too unprofessional for how to work. I said, you know what you gotta you know, ride the Horse came in on and I think that's a perfect example, though. I think, you know, an unexpected twist,
you know, can shake people out of the norm. And you know, especially in the corporate environment, you know that that sort of sets a tone, It separates us out, and it sort of allows everyone you were with to sort of have a break in their normal action and in a way that sort of, you know, mix us things up. And I think it creates the opportunity for fun a lot.
Now I can I can imagine pulling that off for a dinner party. You're serving a million customers a year across a dozen restaurants. You guys must do well over one hundred million dollars of turnover every year. How do you scale that? How do you scale fun and surprise and joy?
That is one of the most complicated questions, and I think it's something we think a lot about because obviously, in your most amazing, you know, mom and pop restaurant, you are dealing hands on with the owner you know every single day, and they know you, they've high touch. So I think a lot of it is about trying to make sure that people understand, you know, your core ideaology, and to sort of look for the right sort of candidates to be in your organization that get what you're
all about. But I think beyond that, I think a lot of it is sort of just setting the tone early and allowing them the freedom to sort of work into your core you know, conceptspe you know, and sort of building from their ideas and extrapolating on them. So part of it is creating programming that's sort of unique and special, a lot of like table side service, a lot of sort of you.
Know, so this is like you do the special caesar salad at the table, you do the butter service at the table. That kind of stuff is additive and fun.
It's a big part of what we do. But I think more than that, I think it's sort of allowing people the opportunity at scale to create their own sense of fun, especially the people work for us. Then they have a natural aptitude for what you're trying to do, and they understand sort of the vibe of what you're trying to create, and it becomes more organic. So there's pieces about.
We got a question from Marisol in Dallas, Texas. She texted it in asking eighty percent of restaurants go out of business in two years. Yours seem to be thriving. So what is the secret to making profitable restaurants? So you told us how to make fun restaurants, but your restaurants make dough.
Yeah, how do you do it? It's a complicated industry. I would say, you know, we think a lot about who the audience is. And I know that sounds so crazy, but I think when it comes down to it, so many people go into restaurant business for passion, but they think less about what their audience wants. They have a tremendous idea, they have something to share, they have the recipes of their family, but does it connect with the
location they found and the people that are there. It's as basic as saying, where am I going to be? What do these people really want as a starting point? And can I build that consistently over time? You know,
in a way that really satisfies that. And I think that sounds so basic, but you know, time and time again, when people come to me and they say I want to open a restaurant and they talk me through their idea, you know it's it's three or four layers down before I get to the premise of you know, where you're going. What it is like, is that what that audience wants, you know, is.
A starting So when you think your restaurants, it's Smith and Malenski, it's a Manhattan steakhouse, it's been around for decades and decades, who's that audience? Who's that the audience you think about for that restaurant.
So you know, when my father built Smith Wansky in nineteen seventy seven, there were two classic New York steakhouses at the time. When was the Palm, the original Palm, and one was Chris Sella's, which is no longer Rounds. And he wanted to create, you know, a new version
of a time classic. And part of his thought was to build a menu that actually had a bigger wine program, which wasn't really the thing at the time at a steakhouse, and to focus on American wine, which was just starting to become prominent in the late seventies and early eighties, and to sort of highlight a larger range of food. Like he had very specific ideas, and I think he felt like those key attributes were things that were differentiators for what the audience already he knew what they liked.
He wanted to be around what people liked, but he felt like he could create elements that they would like even more that made it unique.
Key you know, and his audience. Presumably this was late seventies. It's a guy's in seventy seven trading stocks or selling insurance and then going out for stakes after work. So a lot of corporate, a lot of you know, great advertising was across the street, and all the classic law firm and a lot of that sort of power brokers. But you know, I think he said, I see what they like. Can I create the next iteration, something more unique, something more special? But I think he built it on,
you know, a core. And if someone was at the opening and they came to the restaurant today, would they say, this is the same restaurant. This is still Smith and Wielenski's.
You know, My hope would be that someone would come and would say, this hasn't changed in forty five years. And I'm sure you've heard this before, but my knowledge of the amount of things we have tweaked and product and pulled during that time to make it feel like the product that an audience in twenty twenty three would want but still feel timeless is probably the hardest of all the things I work on it.
But it's maintained its essence. I believe so now that if we drove that guy across town yeah to Bad Roman Yeah, and said this is the same restaurant tour, what would you think.
It would be?
It's different, extraordinarily challenging for them to believe it. So in case anyone our audience hasn't been there or it isn't on Instagram. This is the most Instagram famous restaurant I think in the world.
I mean, it's getting there.
Tell our audience about Bad Roman.
Bad Roman. You know what's funny is my father when he came to Bad Roman, he said, you know, this is so different from anything I've ever done. And I said, you know, the irony is, this is the essence of what you've done in a different way. It is meant to be, you know, a maximalist reinterpretation of Italian. It's meant to be layers upon layers, like overwhelming sensory overload. Fun you know so much so you know that you can't help but smile and disengage. It's supposed to overwhelm
you and really immerse you. Right.
Our next question is from Carlos and Scottsdale.
You know, we lost so many businesses and restaurants during COVID.
Wondered how you kept yours alive during that time.
This was a tough time.
It was.
It was tough for everybody, but for you guys. It was illegal to go to a restaurant.
It was extraordinarily challenging. We lost four of our employees in April of twenty twenty to COVID, and we had eleven hundred employees and we went down to thirty employees and slowly we built it back up to having fifteen
hundred people now. It was insanely challenging, as I think for everyone it has been, and I think we, you know, had to focus on the core of what we were about and look, honestly, without government intervention, without the city's help, without a lot of creativity, without a lot of people working for us, sacrificing in so many ways, and friends and people helping out, and our you know, all the people went to our restaurants, stepping up and coming out
and helping our people, like none of it would have worked. But I think it started with those employees. The power of wanting to have those people back in the door, to be able to have them working again, to be able to great for that, I think that created the
energy for us. And I think we we pivoted to like crazy stuff outdoors, we pivoted to, you know, as everyone, we pivoted everything we could, but we try to maintain the dna of what worked for us before, and for us, that was you know, leaning into our people, you know, and leaning into our sense of fun in humor, especially in such a dire time, and trying to like create some really unique and funny moments in what was such a you know, challenging time.
Now, I made a stake in thirty five degree weather at one of your restaurants outside and it was like we were so in my life. Kevi and I were so eager to get back, we get back to normal life, that we were willing to do abnormal things to be close to it.
I remember when we first when people started to dine outside, we created some you know, larger scale, more unique outdoor dining and we were one of the first people to do it. And people said, how do you give the foresight to do that? How'd you know, Isaac? We didn't know. For I didn't think we were creating something that we would use for a year and a half or two years. I thought we were creating a sense of fun of marketing, uh,
something people walk by and be like stunned. You know that that well, people were trying to and I said, I think, I said, I'm willing to sacrifice the kind of financial, you know, thing to be creative and to have a moment. And it made people smile, and it made people excited again it.
You didn't just tent some tables, You built weig structures outside one of yours had a botchy ball court or something.
It built a giant structure, you know, made of grass or fake grass. It looked like a giant wall from a you know, French tuileries garden. And everyone who walked by in the middle of Midtel, Manhattan, and at the time it was a crazy feeling here smiled and were amazed and it felt so good to be able to just create anything at that moment, just like to create something,
and that was so relevant and important. And I think it just you know, one for people to be able to eat anywhere and have that community, but be able to see something that that felt creative and inspiring when everything was all being shut down and closed in. I think people really reacted well to that. And that was really our intent because we didn't really think, you know, and honestly we hope that we weren't going to use it that look.
Caroline in Denver.
Hi Rest, that seemed like a chaotic business.
We'll kind of set back to your experience.
And how do you handle the unexpressed uh, you know, the biblical uh you know, plagues, floods, fires, pestilens. You just you know, check mark down the list and it's all of the above and that Senate and Health inspectors and then some. I mean, we have had so many floods that I actually, you know, thought about how many different floods we had at openings that I've done over
the years. It's, you know, an insane business of incredibly moving parts, and you know, it's it's literally, you know, it's a you have to be able to roll up your sleeves, to want to roll up your sleeves at the most insane moment. And I remember a quality meets seventeen years ago, about a month and we had the most important critic at the time, and we had a flood outside and our kitchen was in the basement and it overflowed through the facilities and it flooded the whole kitchen.
While you had a critic, while we had a critic putting in orders, and we had people on crates milk crates. There was like a foot and a half of water. It was streaming down the stairway to the kitchen. You could not go to the bathrooms because we was streaming through the bathrooms. We were just I hope this person doesn't need to go to the bathroom. And we continued to try to serve the whole restaurant, like piling through this water around an hour until this person left, because
we just said we're going to do it. We have no other option. And you know, I can think of time and time again, like part of it is the creative will and group to to in some ways want for that moment, you know, to say, what are you going to bring at me? Because we're going to roll up our sleeves and be ready for it. There's a mentality in our business like that.
I was going to opening night at Zuzu's and then and then there was the kitchen burn down or something.
We have had that was the second fire on opening nights. You know, it starts to look like insurance for it after a while, Michael keep having these these fires, opening electric fires.
So and when I guess our our our caller wants to know what do you do about it? It sounds like you just you just grind on. You get the crates. You if there's a fire, you fix you, you put it out, you fix it, you get back to work. Is there any particular takeaway other than just expect it to happen and do your best. I mean, I think it's tried to say, but I think those moments are the moments where you can create the most union experiences
long term for your guests and for your employees. And you know, the first time it happens, you're insane, and solely over time you realize these are the moments where you know you will bond as a team and create a strength if you can get through it. And you know, if you handle those moments well for your guests and you understand that. And I think that's like any business, grisis creates opportunity, And it's really true.
You have to look at that moment and and sort of roll up your sleeves and say, I'm an opportunity here. As crazy as it sounds.
Yeah, something has been happening all the time. That's the job. That's what they need us for.
It's we're therefore you need a lot of miniature fire extinguishers.
Literally, well it's also code, so it's exactly right, all right. The next one is from Alex in Virginia Beach.
I own a small business and you helping Google reviews dominate my life. How do you handle negative reviews that might hurt your business? I usually just respond online with go somewhere else. Do you really?
That was a lot of musk said that to the advertisers this week and more and more colorful language. I don't imagine that that's what you do? What did you do when The New York Times called bad Roman a coked out ruby Tuesdays? We made hats for everyone in our office. Did you this was a real review? Folks? At times was like, what is this place? That's so wild? They couldn't handle it? And you guys completely owned it.
Every time we get a kind of facetious review now, or a sarcastic review, or there's a funny sort of line and it has a twinge of truth because it's part of our core and we are trying to be funny and silly, we'd take it and we own it. And I literally make hats. I make hats and say pleasantly gimmicky. I would get pleasantly gimmicky. I would get a tattoo if I could. That's said pleasantly gimmcky. Some it said pleasantly gimmicky. And I told everyone in my office.
I wish I could have that tattoo because I said, that's right, that's right, that's right. We're trying to be fun. We're trying to, you know, have people smile. And you know they can take that and give in another tone.
But we know what our people want and it's it's a massive amount of people, and there's legitimacy to that over time, and you know what your audience wants, and you know you're creating something that over time is consistently So you got to own those sort of comments and know that's that's true to who you are and that's okay.
And you really leaned into the Instagram thing with bad Roman too. Oh absolutely, you had an ad campaign. I was thrilled, you know, I said, you know, there was a there was a slew of articles and I think, you know a lot of media was concerned and they're concerned about influencers and how strong they are. And it surprises me how incredibly strong influencers are and how they
can create. And I think they wrote a lot of negative everybody's in restaurants taking photos and everybody's too obsessed with this, and you know, I thought to myself, people like this.
They like to have fun, they like to take pictures of their stuff. They probably do it a little too much, but they are enjoying themselves. They are back out, they are sharing experiences, and I don't think they do like
electric to be lectured. And I said, yeah, we're owning this and we're saying, yeah, we're having fun and we know people want to take photos and share them and we're you know, creating around that to a degree, and like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and like why should they be lectured after enjoying that there is a place for very serious food and I love that there's a place for you know, very casual food, and
there should be a place for fun food. You want to take photos up and share and that is the majority of the audience out there. So we so got a bunch of ads that said as much I love it. And what did the ads say? I'm trying to remember all the best lines. I mean one of them was like on the Internet but in real life and that's so cool.
So, uh, Priya in Miami called this one in you've.
Expanded into multiple new markets, what have you learned about geographic expansion and do you find that diners are different from one city to the next.
Human beings are different from one block to the next in New York City, let alone every city. I think I've learned a lot of humility, you know, and an understanding that that, you know, the nuances of what people want are very different, you know, all over and uh, I think the amount of creativity and uniqueness in cities across the US is incredible. And if you're going to bring a product in our business into another city, you
better really understand that audience. You better really understand what they're looking for. I think that, you know, really goes back to that same point. I think you have to approach it with an intense amount of humility to sort of say, you know, is this audience interested in some Can I do something for them that's unique? Right? Can I do something for them that they would want?
Not?
You know, can I show up?
So it's not can I take Smith and Molensky to Boston, it's what is the diner in Boston need from us?
Are they excited and looking for a classic steakhouse and in this area? Is that's something that I think they would really enjoy, that would fit, that would make sense can we create something that fits their interests, you know, and maybe it needs to be tweaked, and maybe it needs to be understood. It needs to have the core of who we are, but it also needs to be able to be malleable to the intent of that audience. And that's a fine balance, you know.
It's terrific. It's It's good advice about any product and any service is that it starts with the consumer, your servant. It sounds crazy, Jonathan in New York.
I know Smith and Malenski had started by her father.
Do you enjoy working with family? Is it harder to keep a family business?
I'd love to hear your perspective.
Day.
I loved working with my father. I love, you know, working with him even now and we don't work as Hawpen together. He's eighty seven now, but we still talk every day every day, and it was extremely hard. Clearly, I think being able to step into a family business
is something that is unique and special. It goes without saying that there's a stepping stone and help and a legacy and a different thought in any business, whatever it is, but also a level of complexity, and I think, you know, for me it was it was a lot of opportunity around being able to step into a business that, you know, my father was in, but also a lot of concern and pressure and thought. And for me, my father never really wanted me to go into his business. He wanted
me to He wanted me to be like him. He was an entrepreneur, He believed in entrepreneurs. He said, go do be an entrepreneur. But I think when I became passionate about the business, he wanted to work with me, and we enjoyed being together. Worked with Danny Meyer first, right, I worked for Danny Meyers when I first got out of college. You know, I used to work in political work like you. I used to do a range of stuff. I thought I wanted to go in the art business.
And then I, you know, ended up working for Danny for a year or so, and I just kind of got the bug. And I went to my father and I said, I I really like this, and he said, you should like something else, anything else on this, And
I said, no, I really think you liked this. And he said, well, if you think you like it, you got to go on the road and you've got to be a restaurant openings, and you got to see if you can handle that and what you like, and then come back in a couple of years and tell me if you want to be right.
It was like you put you in the closet with a box of cigars and said you had to smoke them all so you'd never smoke another cigar.
A little bit, and I came back and I was like cigars. But I mean, I think the thing I never really thought about was our relationship, and that was the best thing that I got out of all of it. It was the hardest thing, but like.
There's got to be a two edged sword through. I've never wanted a boss's approval and the way that I would want my father's approval.
I mean, it was a I don't know if there are more edges to a sword than two, but yes, but there was a depth to that relationship. If it works, it's harder, it's like louder, it's tougher, it's more consider it's got to be two neewers with a lot of energy. There is a lot of yelling and curtsying.
Yeah, dads as bosses don't do the compliment sandwich that MBA anail managers do when.
They're giving feedback it is a very different world, but it has rewards you know that I think you know are hard to replicate.
That's really cool. We've got one more Seth and Austin. I actually got a few questions like this, So this is representative of what the audience really wants to know from you. How do I get treated like a VIP of my favorite restaurant? And how do I get a table when the restaurants are all booked up? This is really everybody sat through this whole thing about the restaurant business just to find out how.
Do we get You're going to have to send an email to mike' stive, but generally, I mean and so I have a friend who when he moved to New York City, his dad said, you have to pick your favorite restaurant, and you have to go in.
And see the see the mid er d and you have to give him this much money in an envelope and make sure he knows your name and your phone number. And that was one way, and he still gets tables. There are no problem.
Does that work?
What are the tricks?
You know? It's changed a lot. I think there are a lot of people who are trying to create a
little more professionalism around this. You know, we're partnered with a group called Blackbird that just opened, and one of their ideas is basically to create a platform for individual restaurants to sort of offer this relationship to their customers in a sort of symbiotic way, which I think is really interesting because I think on scale businesses like ours want to create VIPs and regulars, and people want to be VIPs and regular.
It's really awkward to ask, how do I become your idea?
It's hard to create that that relationship, and I think there's a lot of creativity going on in our industry around how to maybe doing that. You know, there's organic ways and and honestly, it's less about handing people money than than having them get to know you. I mean getting to know the people in the restaurant, the bartenders, the matre dizos, and being nice. You know, is is more important than than spending money. I will tell you they genuinely, you know, everyone is there to make money,
but being nice it's as simple as that. In a lot of ways, a lot of things about that. You can tell what the airport is going to get their middle seed moved, and who isn't when as soon as they start talking to the to the person at the desk, you just tell it is it is. You know, the person who hands the one hundred dollars at the door and acts a certain way is very rarely getting what
they want. It's it's you know, it's not about I think it's about creating that symbiotic relationship because it's a tough business and people are there.
And they do it to make people happy, and they should be true, they should be you should give it back.
And they love regulars. They want that. It creates community for the people work in a restaurants. So I think it's just about understanding they want it as much as you do. It's just creating that organically. It's as simple as making a friend in some ways. You know, it's how you have to think about it. Michael has been fantastic.
Thanks for coming on my podcast.
It is my pleasure.
Thanks for having really really enjoyed this one. Friends, That one was super fun.
Michael.
I mean, he runs amazing restaurants. He's a fantastic guy. He treats his people so well. If you ever have the chance to go to any of the quality branded restaurants, quality Meats, Quality Eats, Quality Italian, all the ones we talked about as well. Uh, don't miss the opportunity. It's a it's a really fun night. What I take away from this conversation and I just wanted to say it for our audience before you head out and tackle everything
you're going to tackle this week. Michael clearly thinks so hard about his audience and what his audience needs and wants from him and how to deliver it, which is so different than saying I want to have a steakhouse or I want to launch a digital app that does X, Y or Z. It's saying I want to do a service.
I want to make somebody else's life better, and how can I do it through my business, And whether your business is taking customer calls or working on marketing campaigns or getting the numbers in on time, I'd encourage you to go through that same exercise. Who is it you're really excited to serve and how's the work that you're
doing serving that person? And if you don't get to a good answer, you know We've also come up with a lot of ideas in this podcast for how to find your purpose, how to find your direction in your career. I tell you it's important. I get a lot of joy out of my work because I'd like the people I work with and the people I work for, and I wish that for all of you too. So we had some amazing guests coming up in the next few weeks. We have a CEO who's helping to cure cancer you're
going to get to hear from soon. Another entrepreneur who I think you're going to have a really good time with. I'd want you to text or call in your questions at two one, three, four, one nine oh five nine six, or you can always just hit me up on LinkedIn, Instagram, et cetera. At Mike Steib I want to thank Michael again, and of course Jen, Cara, Meg, Jada, Matt and the whole team at Blue Duck Media. They helped pull this all together. I want to thank Bahed who's here in
the studio making it work. We've got Dylan, Sasha, Gay, Nathan and Christine at iHeart and our friends Ben and the team at William Morris Endeavor for all their support. Office Hours is a production of Blue Duck Media and it's distributed by iHeartRadio.
Remember friends.
We dropped new episodes every Wednesday morning, but not next week. It's Christmas, so we're taking the week off and we'll be back in the new year. Until then, I want to wish everybody the happiest of holidays. I want to thank you for being a part of this podcast this year. I look forward to seeing you again in two thousand and twenty four. Until then, take care of your people, have a wonderful rest of the year, and stay on your grind. Bye everybody,