What’s it like to be someone who knows a little bit about everything? Or sometimes, a *lot* about everything? Ethan Mitchell (zemita.net) is a teacher and essayist who lives on a sheep farm in Vermont, attended just one semester of college, and writes an underground newsletter called the “Hebdromodary.” In this interview we talk about Ethan’s wide-ranging interests, self-directed learning path, numerous weird jobs, and views on unschooling. Sign up for Ethan’s newsletter: http://zemita.net/heb.h...
Jul 25, 2020•1 hr 5 min
If you have a kid who has been identified as academically gifted, is a self-directed learning center a good place for them? Kristen Montesano, co-founder of EPIC Life Learning Community in Dallas, Texas (epiclifelearningcommunity.com), grew up in public school gifted programs, yet she was still bored and unchallenged. In college she began volunteering at a democratic free school which soon inspired her to think about starting her own program. In this interview she explains how self-directed lear...
Jun 25, 2020•30 min
In May 2020, Elizabeth Bartholet, a Harvard Law Professor, called for significant new regulations on homeschooling in the United States. In this extra-long episode, I interview Professor Bartholet about her ideas, research, and proposals. We are joined by Rachel Coleman, executive director of the Coalition for Responsible Home Education — and a grown homeschooler herself — who contributes a wealth of experience and impassioned arguments for increasing oversight of homeschooling. While all three ...
Jun 06, 2020•1 hr 47 min
Many teachers aspire to work at progressive schools that are more kind, individualized, and humane. But what do you do when even the “best schools” still treat kids with distrust and coercion? Aaron Eden has asked this question over his long career in education, ultimately leading him to his current position as Executive Director at the Institute for Applied Tinkering (which oversees the Brightworks School in San Francisco). We discuss Aaron's journey away from techno-optimism, the subtle art of...
May 27, 2020•1 hr 2 min
This special episode celebrates the release of Blake’s new book, Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School?, which is now available through local bookstores, Amazon.com, and other marketplaces. Joined by guest host Kevin Currie-Knight, Blake discusses how kids learn to work hard when given the freedom to self-direct, the nature of “intensive parenting,” the true value of a college degree, and how to avoid dogmatic thinking in education. Learn more about the book here: https://blakeboles.com/...
May 15, 2020•1 hr 2 min
James Dwyer is a professor of law at William & Mary Law School and the co-author of Homeschooling: The History & Philosophy of a Controversial Practice (University of Chicago Press, 2019). Following the arc of Jim’s excellent book (co-authored with historian Shawn Peters), we discuss some foundational questions related to homeschooling, such as: What is the state’s role in family affairs? To what extent are children their own people? What basic human goods does every young person deserve...
Apr 19, 2020•1 hr 20 min
17-year-old Zoe Greenhouse (zoegreenhouse.com) talks about her recent decision to stop going to school and attempt a thru-hike of the 2,650-mile Pacific Crest Trail (PCT). Zoe discusses her background as an unschooler and world-schooler, the handful of private and public schools she attended, her decision to leave school and spend 5+ months on the PCT, and how she has prepared for the journey. Zoe started her hike in March of 2020. Follow her progress on Instagram: @zoegreenhouse [Please pardon ...
Mar 21, 2020•37 min
Maya Landers (mayalanders.com) is a 22-year-old lifelong unschooler from Austin, Texas, who always thought she would go to college to study English. Yet at 17 she opted to take a gap year… followed by another gap year… which turned into another gap year…. and yet another! We discuss Maya’s decision-making process regarding college, how she spent her gap years (doing a combination of writing, volunteering, working, and teaching English in China), how she built community, how she made it all work ...
Feb 17, 2020•39 min
After teaching 6th grade reading at a tough school in Mississippi, Matthew Gioia discovered the Sudbury Valley School literature and quickly became enamored. Like many people (myself included) Sudbury represents an idyllic philosophy that leaves behind the baggage of conventional education. But how do the ideals match up with actual Sudbury schools? Matthew joins me to discuss the day-to-day realities of school governance, the justice system, motivation, staff-student relations, adult non-interv...
Jan 23, 2020•1 hr 12 min
Kerry McDonald (fee.org/kerry) is the author of the 2019 book, Unschooled: Raising Curious, Well-Educated Children Outside the Conventional Classroom, as well as a regular contributor to Forbes, the Cato Institute, and the Foundation for Economic Education. We discuss Kerry’s faith in the private sector to nurture innovative education models, what sets her book apart from others, her path through Harvard Graduate School of Education, her role in founding the Alliance for Self-Directed Education,...
Jan 08, 2020•41 min
Gina Riley, Ph.D., is an educational psychologist and Clinical Professor of Adolescent Special Education at Hunter College in New York City. She's also the leading researcher on the connection between unschooling and Self-Determination Theory. Gina discusses the three factors that generate intrinsic motivation (competence, autonomy, and relatedness), why kids like extracurriculars more than school, the many parenting styles associated with unschooling, how to support a kid’s autonomy (even when ...
Dec 10, 2019•57 min
Ken Danford is the Executive Director of North Star (northstarteens.org), author of the new book "Learning is Natural, School is Optional", and the first guest to ever appear on this podcast. In this episode we discuss the Liberated Learners network through which Ken helps other people start centers similar to his, his advice for starting a new center (hint: talk to everyone in town, and don’t rely on homeschoolers to fill the program), and how L.L. fits into the broader alternative education mo...
Nov 13, 2019•56 min
What if there was a community college built just for homeschoolers? This may not exist yet, but Lori Walker has created the next best thing: Village Home Education Resource Center (villagehome.org). For 17 years Village Home has served young people (from pre-k through high school) in and around Portland, Oregon. Learners choose between a huge diversity of classes (costing roughly $110 each), hang out with each other between class (as can their parents and siblings), and best of all, there’s no h...
Oct 03, 2019•52 min
What does it mean to “self-educate?” Are autodidacts made or born? Can one develop an intellect without formal higher education? In this special episode, Blake discusses these big questions (and many more) with Bill Deresiewicz (the author of Excellent Sheep) and guest facilitator Dev Carey. This event was recorded live in Portland, Oregon, on September 1, 2019, at the Wayfinding Academy. Learn more about Bill at billderesiewicz.com, Dev at highdesertcenter.org, and Wayfinding Academy at wayfind...
Sep 04, 2019•1 hr 18 min
Antonio Buehler was the first person in his family to finish high school or attend college. After completing an MBA at Stanford he went into investment banking and private equity before becoming deeply impressed by homeschooling and creating his own self-directed learning center in Austin, Texas, called Abrome (abrome.com). In this episode Antonio talks with Blake about what colleges—especially highly selective colleges—are looking for in their applicants, whether traditionally or non-traditiona...
Aug 09, 2019•1 hr 19 min
Where is the alternative education movement headed, and how will we arrive there? In this special episode, Blake gives the closing keynote at the AERO (Alternative Education Resource Organization) conference in Portland, Oregon on June 29th, 2019. Themes of the talk include: embracing the growing variety of alternatives, tackling unsexy but important challenges like school finances, doing better research on self-directed learning, and the many ways to make the movement more inclusive.
Jul 14, 2019•41 min
What are "children's rights" and how do they overlap with the world of self-directed learning? Margie Sanderson, a 24-year-old board member of the National Youth Right Association (youthrights.org), talks with me about the different conceptions of children's rights (also called youth rights), the many ways of empowering young people to participate in society like adults, lowering the voting age, competency tests, letting students enroll and unenroll themselves in school, and the strange idea of ...
Jun 20, 2019•41 min
After a successful career as a venture capitalist, Ted Dintersmith (teddintersmith.com)dedicated himself to discovering highly innovative schools around the United States, leading him to produce the 2015 documentary, Most Likely to Succeed, and his 2018 book, What School Could Be. Ted and I discuss his movie, math education, college-for-all, grit, and whether public schools will ever really change.
May 29, 2019•1 hr 10 min
If conventional high school isn't a good fit for your kid, what should you do -- push harder, or try something new? Is high school mandatory for college, career, and a successful transition to adulthood? In this special episode, recorded live at the CHN Family Expo conference in southern California on May 4th, 2019, Blake explains why "Yes, You Can Quit High School and Everything Will Turn Out Okay." Download the accompanying slides at https://blakeboles.com/yesyoucan.pdf, and find the video (th...
May 05, 2019•54 min
Jerry Mintz founded the Alternative Education Resource Organization (AERO) over 30 years ago and has since helped start over 50 learner-centered schools. In this special episode, Jerry and I interview each other about the state of alternative education in the world and what makes us hopeful that the movement is making progress. Explore the AERO website at www.educationrevolution.org and say hello to both me and Jerry at the 2019 AERO conference in Portland, Oregon, where I’m giving a keynote tal...
Mar 05, 2019•1 hr 7 min
What’s the sense and science behind giving kids more control over their lives? Why do they deserve autonomy? Ned Johnson answers these questions in his wonderful 2018 book, The Self-Driven Child (coauthored with Bill Stixrud). In the interview Ned discusses his life as a Washington D.C. test prep tutor, the deleterious effects of stress, why kids need a sense of control in their lives, shifting from “boss” to “consultant” as a parent, the science of self-motivation, and — crucially — the role th...
Feb 02, 2019•1 hr 8 min
If you’re in love with the principles of self-directed learning but don’t want to abandon the public school system, how can you still make an impact? Kate Friedman (katefriedman.co) has figured out one way to do this. A former kindergarten special ed teacher who has also worked at the Brooklyn Free School, Kate now nudges classroom teachers in the direction of self-directed learning with the hopes of gradually shifting the New York City public school system toward more choice and inclusion of di...
Jan 02, 2019•46 min
North Star (northstarteens.org) is an alternative to middle school and high school in Western Massachusetts, and it's a highly inspiring model of supporting self-directed learning at the teenage level. In Fall 2018, I took a break from my speaking tour to spend 9 days at North Star and immerse myself in the model and its community. In this special episode, you'll get a brief introduction to North Star through the voices of a dozen of its teen members. To find centers similar to North Star — or i...
Dec 05, 2018•27 min
What are the best and worst arguments for going to 4-year college today? On today’s episode I debate this question with T.K. Coleman, the Education Director of an alternative-to-college program, Praxis (discoverpraxis.com). What’s the value of a stimulating academic environment? Access to social life? Developing a “life of the mind?” Signaling your value in the marketplace? If you have a young person in your life who’s wrestling with the college decision, this is a great episode to share with th...
Nov 11, 2018•1 hr 48 min
If you’re a teenager who (1) doesn’t go to conventional school and (2) wants to make new, open-minded friends — then get yourself to Not Back to School Camp, the preeminent gathering place for teenage unschoolers and self-directed learners. In this episode I interview Matt Sanderson, who recently finished directing two sessions of camp. Some of the questions we address include: What is day-to-day life like at Not Back to School Camp? What’s the best part and worst part about being director? And ...
Oct 28, 2018•57 min
If you want to get involved in alternative education in your twenties, what steps can you take to make it possible? Cassidy Younghans, age 27, is currently in the middle of answering this question. After teaching in Texas public schools for 5 years, Cassidy jumped ship and is now interning at the Houston Sudbury School. She dreams of starting her own school or center some day , but she’s not quite sure how — so for now she’s focusing on organizing meet-up groups, co-hosting a small annual confer...
Oct 11, 2018•53 min
What was it like to start an alternative school—especially one that supports “homeschoolers”, a hitherto unknown term—back in the sixties and seventies? Pat Montgomery did just that. She fought the hard fights, secured protections for home educators and self-directed learners, and even sued the Michigan State Board of Education. The school she founded, Clonlara (clonlara.org), now supports families across the United States and in 50 other countries, as well as on their physical K-12 campus in An...
Sep 22, 2018•1 hr 15 min
In this special episode, Zen Zenith interviews Blake Boles about the past, present, and future of Unschool Adventures (unschooladventures.com), including a sneak preview of Blake’s big new program for 17- to 20-year-olds that’s launching in 2019: Independent Adventures. They also discuss Blake’s videos, articles, speaking tour, podcast, and future projects. Visit blakeboles.com to find the blog post that accompanies this episode (“Looking Back / Looking Forward”), and don’t miss Zen’s own podcas...
Aug 11, 2018•54 min
After a decade of teaching at public and private schools, Joel Hammon quit. Despite being on track to earning a six-figure salary with full benefits, he couldn’t take it anymore. But he still wanted to work with young people, so he co-founded Princeton Learning Cooperative (princetonlearningcooperative.org): a center based on the North Star model. In this episode we talk about how Joel struggled with teaching, what he loved about it, what led him to quit, how he (and others like him) maintain fi...
Jul 26, 2018•1 hr 23 min
Does self-directed education really “work,” and how can we prove it? In this episode I speak with Peter Gray, Ph.D., about the evidence (and lack thereof) for the effectiveness of unschooling and democratic free schools. Topics include: How does one measure the "effectiveness" of education in the first place? What does Peter's research say? How might a skeptical parent critique it? Why is it hard to get this research published? If Peter could design a perfect experiment to show that it self-dire...
Jul 05, 2018•1 hr 17 min
