Knives Out: Wake Up Dead Man

You're good with your microphone. I don't know. Let's just do it, okay, Well, you remember back when we first met each other. I feel like one of the part of the genesis of off topic was you and I.

I do not remember meeting you, by the way. I just I feel like I kind of always knew you.

I know what you mean.

Yeah, I remember the specific time I got introduced to you.

Yeah. No, me neither. That's a fair point, but I guess I mean specifically, one of our first movie conversations was about a quiet place. Yeah, sure, and uh I was coming to you. Leo and I were speaking on the air, and I said, yeah, I very rarely gravitate towards the thing that everybody tells you is great. I guess it was a quiet place, which was a quiet place.

And this is coming from a guy. We're talking about Knives Out, Wake Up, dead Man, the third installment and the Knives Out Ryan Johnson. I don't want to say universe because I think these kinds are they all existing in the same.

Yeah, I mean Daniel Craig is the only consistent, the only consistent.

Guy, Okay, so anyway, which we have to talk about him a little bit, is absolutely so. I never saw the first two, and I heard great things about the first one. I heard not so great things about the second one, and then the third one. I had no idea, like I saw this before I looked up anything about what people were saying about And it seems like this is a nice rebound, right it's similar to True Detective

Yeah. Look, I looked it up on the Rotten Tomatoes, which take that for what it is. You know, it's by no means perfect, but ironically enough, all three of them are in the low nineties for critics on a second one. Yeah, So, I mean this is mine.

Neither one of us has seen the second.

We have not seen the thing. I have not seen the first. You have seen the first, yes, and so, and I do want to talk about Daniel Craig as well, but just to at least get this out of the way at first my interpretation. Far be it from me to put my opinion on everybody. There is the second movie, For No Reason at All, dives into Daniel Craig's character Ben wab Blae being a gay man for no reason at all. It really has nothing to do with the plot.

So that doesn't happen at all in the first one.

No, and it really doesn't happen in this one. And in this.

America know that he was gay. I just kind of and you.

Wouldn't have known in the first one either. The second one jumps into it heavy, and in this America, a lot of people, why do you have to shoehorn this into everything? He could have just been a character, and I think it might have got review bombed more than it actually was bad. It would be my guest, based on a lot of the react that's interesting and that makes sense. Now, this is what I want to ask you specifically about him. Did he did he have this accent?

Let Josh O'Connor.

Yes, they let Josh O'Connor take the reins a little bit here on this one, which was enjoyable. I thought he did a great job. But would you say he was the lead in this order, Yes, I would. And it was a similar setup, and that you get like twenty minutes maybe thirty minutes of no Daniel Craig. You get to know the character longer, it might be, it might very well be. You get to know the nuance the of the interactions, and then he kind of swoops

Right, and they are on my list because I did like this one quite a bit and I have a feeling and now that you bring up the review bomb with the second one, I think I'm more excited to see the second one. Although my buddy the commiss who's seen the first two, has not seen the third one yet. He said, just the second one suck. Now, he has some very interesting viewpoints on life. I think I brought that up for so I take his stuff usually with a grain of salt, and.

I could be mistaken. The movie could suck like you never know, but I know that was well, there's promise.

There's been plenty of stuff that he has said is great that I think is very mediocre, sure, and other stuff that he thinks absolutely sucks, and I'm like, God, this is great.

So whatever. The way that they set.

This one up is Josh O'Connor is a former boxer turned priest, Yes, and he basically slugs a priest at the parish he was at, and then he gets transferred to this parish in rural New York State that is being run by uh, Thanos helped me out l who sounded like when he was preaching, yes, was it?

Did you not hear yeah? I heard it.

I didn't hear cale. I heard yeah, there's that. It was definitely more Thanos than cable.

But with with the way he preached, so okay, just to set this up, so he feels like his character feels like Josh O'Connor's character might be like being sent there to take over his parish a little bit.

And the way that Jefferson Wicks, who is his character in the movie, that's Josh Brolin, he preaches in such an incendiary tone that it turns off so many people like he's I think they bring it up like he doesn't feel like he's had a successful sermon unless somebody leaves out of embarrassment or whatever. And so basically his his parish is down to just a handful really like eight or nine people that show up. Yeah, the truest of believers, right, and they're all big Jefferson Wicks followers.

Yeah.

And what I liked about it and we'll get into the caper of this here or the who done an aspect of it, I really never got a good handle on who had the best motivation and who was most likely to be the killer slash killers in this film from yeah, okay, and even as we as as we got deeper and deeper where you should be figuring more and more out, I had more and more questions, and I really didn't know, Like and so then when you know, I said to you before, there's a lot of headfakes

What's the word conspiracy, No, not conspiracy, the level of it'll come to me, okay, but basically the level of don't worry about it.

No, this is going to really irritate. Yeah, I got to stop drinking.

Yeah, but uh, I will say, I believe you listen for sure. Yeah they could go in any direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.

So that's I'm more curious about that with you.

Yeah, it definitely rang through and so let me say I'll describe this by giving another example. There is a throwaway who Done It movie called eighty eight Minutes starring al Pachante and Alpatain. Sure absolutely. A buddy of mine in college.

Say throw away because it was so short.

Because it was it was so forgettable, oh like cookie Cutter. Yeah. The only reason I remember it is for this story because my college friend said, watch eighty eight minutes with me. I've never been more confused by uh by a who Done It in my life. And I'm like, oh, totally. I'm really good at guessing this stuff and I'm here

Look here, now, to look over here.

I knew who the murderer was. I think thirty five seconds after we found Josh Brolin dead shot. Uh yeah, I really, yeah.

I find Okay, listen, I give you credit for your movie, chops.

Yeah, okay.

I find this extraordinarily hard to believe.

Yeah. I didn't get all the ins and outs because there's the but the fundamental crux of what was happening I had put together.

Right, here's here's the thing. Here's the thing. I think had I been watching it now that I think about this movie, had I been watching it, and had I've seen how they structured everything with the introduction to all the characters, you know, Jeremy Renner, Kerrie Washington, which was great cast, but yeah, we'll get there, Thomas Hayden Church.

Who is the woman, the old Jeremy Reynard.

Yeah, so you have all these So I could have if if you asked me at that point based on, you know, previous movie watching, and you said, okay, I need you to pick who you think the murderer is. Yeah, I think I feel fairly confident I would have guessed right, yes, okay, and see hold on, hold on, I would have guessed right. Yeah, guess it would have been a guest. Yes, But you were sure of it? Yeah, what was your level?

Confidence level?

Pretty high, like ninety something.

Yeah, And I don't want to say what and.

You I don't understand this and you still enjoyed it.

Oh yeah, I mean because I didn't know if I was right. But there's one thing that I don't want to say on the show because if I say it, you'll say the moment and you'll know what happened. But these movies, and I hesitate to say this to you because you want to see the first ones. They typically like Scream was very famous for We're gonna make you think it's the boyfriend right away. Then we're gonna tell you that it's not the boyfriend, so that that's off

That's every single dateline, investigation, discovery ever.

Yeah, but it turns out there were two killers, and there was no way for you to actually infer that there were two killing. It's like there was no hint at that. Hold on, what are you talking about in scream? In scream, Oh, It's like the way they were able to convince you it wasn't him is because there was a second guy doing it, and you never would have guessed that unless you've already seen the movie. These movies,

The picture, it's because I think of the first two knives out, like you you go in with with the expectation that you need to be doing that, right.

Yeah, And I.

Don't necessarily like that because I think it's it's almost like a chore.

Yeah, I want to enjoy that. But did you like one experience? Did you like when they held the picture up to the scene and they would show and they bring it down, they'd hold it up and like, so you think you notice stuff, but then it turns out there was other stuff, and it's like active participation in showing to So I loved that. I've never seen that before and I loved it.

There were the scene that Ben's talking about. They're in a pub, yeah, yeah, and Ben wi Blanc is holding up a photo of the pub from this taken from the same perspective that he was standing at, and he holds a photo up in front of the camera. Then he drops it. And I don't think it's actually explained because like, even in that moment, I didn't see it. I didn't see what he was seeing me neither.

I didn't see that part.

And then in spoiler alert, you end up finding out what he was seeing at that point before the movie ends.

And you have the capacity to notice it, like it's on the viewer to watch it for sure.

So, uh, I just can't get over how you enjoyed this movie when you saw this all.

Well, because it wasn't it wasn't a guarantee that I was right. I was just like, oh, this is probably because but you said you were so sure. Yeah. But I was also so sure about the blonde girl in eighty eight minutes, not because I understood and I don't remember the movie like there actually is like evidence to back up that she was the killer, and there was.

Stuff you call that note to that. Yeah, prior to her crime.

Yeah, you throughout the movie, like there were hints that you could have figured it out. But I get that.

But Ben, you're you made the call the moment these characters were well, I shouldn't say the moment these characters are introduced, but you made the call so early in both of these films.

I did the same thing in Shutter Island and I love Shutter of Thirty minutes in I was like, oh, it's all in his imagine.

I don't like that. Yeah, I don't. I mean that's great. Yeah, And I brought this up with commission. He said, you know, the best who done it's are the ones where you can figure it out.

I agree, I don't. I don't like that.

I I want a big reveal at the end, and I got one in this film. You got a smaller reveal.

So but so let me let me hit you with a quote here, George R. Martin, our boy. Sure is this the pole Butler quote that you Yeah, Okay, I've already done it on the show. Never mind that I think times but so then, But but to that effect, then, the fact that people are able to figure out that the butler did it, is that a testament to good storytelling? Or is that a predictable story. I'd argue it's good storytelling, and he's he refused it would allow him.

It would happen to be good scory story. If you're gonna have the butler do it, you better have a really good story prior to that.

But for me to be able to guess the butler did it would there would have to be enough subtle crumbs, because not everybody knew what it was building towards. I didn't know the J plus L on the tree thing was freaking you know, what's his name, John Snow and what and Targarian's ancestors, and that they were related in some way, Like I didn't put that shit together. But the fact that some people love this stuff enough to be like, hey, maybe these initials are correlated to this,

Difference with Scream was it was sort of a like one of the first, at least that I can remember. It was one of the first meta horror slasher movies we've ever seen where it assumes you are well versed in the template of slasher films, and even if you're not, Jamie Kennedy gives you the crash course several times throughout

It's basically the same movie, I'll be honest, compared to the first first one.

In audiences in today's day and age, especially for these types of films, man, you have really really got to spin a good yarn or people are going to destroy it. And there's always going to be people like you who figure stuff out, like there's just no getting around it, because you have to dumb it down to the intellect level of people like me who are watching this purely for the enjoyment on of it and not trying to act like I'm on the case with Ben Wi Blanco. I assume that that was you.

Yeah, of course, yes, Mila.

Kutis, I forgot was in this too. Did you think she was miscast?

Yeah? I didn't.

I didn't care for her as that. She didn't strike me as an extraordinarily intelligent person.

And she didn't, I mean like she was the uh cause you know uh in a lot of these Sheriff rules, especially.

Very intelligent character. I should say I think she's an intelligent person in real life.

Oh of course, yeah, they're they're depicted in movies. I always say cops have a very similar attitude as salesman. It's like we have a quote and we have to get there. She needed the red ledger in her ledger to turn green. She needs a killer for this story. I don't care who that killer is. You need to present me, you know, the killer.

And maybe this is kind of kind of type cast a little bit where I'm you know, I've told you I'm getting into stranger things now. Yeah, there there is her character in this film versus Hopper in Stranger Things.

Versus Deputy Dewey in the screen franchise. Three very different characters, same role.

But but I think there's very similar ways on what the cog that they are in those films, right, And there's different ways of doing it, but they all are basically the same cog. Hey, we're we're we're smart, We're we're good cops. But we're not smart enough to do this all on our own. We need ben Wan Blanc, we need Winona Ryder, we need Courtney Cox exactly.

Yeah, So I will say me Lacunis doesn't integrate with the cast as much as the others the other two do. Like Dewey ends up marrying Courtney Cox, he's known Sydney's and chooses like that's me. Lacunas is removed quite from the actual and I think.

I think that there's I guess the other thing to Dewey and Hopper, the biggest things that they do that Melacunas character doesn't do it all. It's all about protection. They're to protect and serve. Well, Dewey and Hopper do that. Mela Cunas is all about like give me the body, get me the killer, you know, get me get me the the murderer here so I can wrap this up.

Yeah, there is that, and like they do a good job, as you mentioned of like misleading you in certain ways, but it did any of that.

I love when I don't know when it's real and when it's not. Did you pick up on that the head fakes? I mean, did you know that were head fakes?

Some of them, some of them like that, there were there were elements of it, like I'll be honest, like I started putting it together very quickly when they were religious overtones to this and it's called Wake Up Dead Man, and I was like, oh, I have a good feeling. I know what's going to happen later in this movie. And sure enough you can kind of put two and two together of what I'm saying there. For me, what kept me engaged is I think the writing in these movies.

Just know how many times I wanted when we were doing this podcast, how many times I wanted to call him Jeff Bridges?

Yeah, like probably like four or five. But then there's a throwaway line in the movie when he's like, yeah, and then you've got a priest that looks like the Big Lebowski and like they put it in the movie, and you're sitting there thinking that the whole time. I'm like, that's funny writing as a political commentator when I'm thinking, what was the black kid's name in that movie, Darryl McCormick, cy Draven, the one who's trying to enter into politics. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I'll just bring the regarding Jeff Bridges the Neutron movie.

I haven't seen it, but I haven't even seen the second Tron movie I have, honest I.

Haven't either, but my buddy Stirfry was telling me he was watching it the other night and he said that there is a lot because Jeff Bridges is in it. Yeah, and he was obviously in the original. There's a line in there that kind of like refers to him as the dude or has some sort of big Lebowski reference in the Neutrons. I thought that was interesting.

Yeah, I'm happy with this off topic here because I always like throwing people off with this. I don't get I don't get that movie. I don't make Lebowski. I don't understand why everyone likes it so much. You know.

The first time I saw it, I was like and this was after the hype too.

Yeah, I was just kind of like, yeah, I saw it when I was in college. This was well after. This was like two thousand and six seven, maybe I'm watching it.

So so I watched it and I'm like, yeah, this is just it's Cohen Cohen brother stuff, which is it's all right. Yeah, And then I watched it again I'm.

Like, oh, yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, And now whenever it's on, I'm watching it. Yeah.

And to the point, like even at work today, stir Fry and I were quoting the the the Dusty Stepping over the line where where John Goodman pulls out the gun. We're quoting that like almost see. And I don't know what it's a cult classic. I mean, I don't know what it is I like about it. I I I love Jeff Bridges acting. John Goodman's character was hilarious.

Yeah, all the great. I say, Donnie, you're out of your element two times a week on my show The President.

The whole uh Caper Kidnapped. Yeah, I think it's great. So I don't know, man like, there's just a lot going on with it, and then you get the weird dream sequence dream sequences or whatever. So I can't explain why I like it. I just know that when it's on, I enjoy. I don't hate on people like it. You know what makes me mad about it is that I should like it, Like is like, Ben, why don't you It's a smart movie. There's good, So I think it is. I think it should be right. I think I think

Yeah, she's I've been where I like how off topic we are. But i'ven't been out of shape with her since the Hannibal movie where she replaced Jodie Foster and I was like, this isn't Jody.

I didn't see it, but I heard she was really good in that. I think it's called Still Alice. And I want to say Anne Hathaway was in it with her. I don't quote me on that. Yeah, but she plays this college professor with early onset dementia or Alzheimer's or something, so she's slowly losing her mind, and you know, and and it's a I guess it's a pretty honest portrayal from what I've heard for people who've experienced a family member doing this and she got good reviews for it.

Think she's done a whole lot. No, I don't think so whatever. Yeah, but in any event, how did we end up? Oh? Because he looks like big Lebowski. But so it's the writing that gets me where. That got me where I needed to go with this. I think there's the uh, the interaction with everybody feels very organic and as we said, the casts like, I feel like we barely even scratch the surface. But Jeremy Renner, Josh O'Connor, Carrie Washington.

No, just real quick, Jeremy Renner, was this post snowplow accident.

It would have to be.

Well, I don't know when they filmed that.

Me neither. Okay, yeah, so he.

He looked a little I mean a little bit older, oh yeah, and a little bit more weathered. And I'm sure that was because, you know, in part of all the surgeries he had to have.

I'll be honest, I was sitting there and watching him, not to say he did a bad job, but I was like, why is he famous? Because he's not like overly handsome. His acting isn't over impressive.

So this is my m introduction to Jeremy Rener. You're gonna appreciate this.

Yeah. So, back in the day, Pizza Hut had a four dollars deal where you'd buy a pizza at regular price and each one after that would just be four bucks.

That's what they do. So they had this television commercial of these people sitting in a Pizza Hut restaurant. Yeah, remember those, Yeah, And Jeremy Renner is one of the actors in this commercial for pizza and they were like, so then they would ask the waitress or the serve, oh, how much for this this? And this regular price? Four bucks?

Four bucks.

And then they show Jeremy Renner and just kind of like laughs or whatever, like smiles, and the commercial ends. And then and he's got I think it's his eyes that really stand out to me. And then I saw and This is a I don't know if you've ever seen this movie, but I think it's really funny. National Lampoon Senior Trip. Have you ever seen? Okay, can't remember many of the actors in this. Matt Frewer, I think, is in it. Yes, I know, Matt Frewer is in it.

I think it was? No?

I know what he did before that hurt Locker. He was a hurt Locker. And I'm like, hey, it's de Gastino from National lamp and so forever he was the National Lampoon Senior Trip guy, and quite frankly, he still was that until he became Hawkeye, and now he's Hawkeye.

Yeah.

But It's wild that that career arc that he has had.

It is to Academy a nominated actor from being in a Pizza Hut commercial. It's like when I rewatched Total Recall and Hank from Breaking Bad is like, oh, even with four lines in that movie, I'm like, man, that's nineteen ninety. Breaking Bad started in like two thousand and eight. That's eighteen years of probably his family being like, hey, when you are gonna give up?

He was still he was still getting character actors.

He'd always yeah, he'd have bit parts everywhere here and there, But I didn't know who he was until like he was just a random mutant in Total.

Jonathan Banks from Mike Ermantrout was one of the bad guys, one of the goons in Beverly Hills Cop. And he had hair in that movie. If you could believe it, it's so wild. Like somebody told me about that one time, and I had to show Leo, our mutual friend Leo here at the ranch. I'm like, do you realize that Mike Ermantroud had hair in Beverly Hills Cop?

And I shouldn't. It was It does show you just got to be in front of these people Terry Crews was one of the Benzel Washington's goons in Training Day. He doesn't even have a lot of it. Sure stands behind him looking jacks, which is crazy. By the way.

Way, ri ip to Peter Green, who was also one of the goons in Training Day, who just a few days ago in his apartment found dead and there was a note that next to him that said I'm I'm still a Westie, which apparently was this Italian American crime gang or something, and so, yeah, weird stuff that Peter Green, obviously, Dorian, I think it was his name from the mask.

Obviously you mentioned Training Day. I was watching Blue Streak last night. He was in that as well.

Yeah, so all right, Peter Peter.

Green, Wake Up dead Man filmed June tenth through August seventeenth, So that feels like that was twenty four. Sorry that had to be after it. Yeah, so to be Frank, I didn't really think about it when I was watching.

Well and good on him, because I mean, he was close to death. Jeremy rennerd were talking about he was close to death, and now all of a sudden he's acting again, and now I think he's I think he is in Doomsday.

Right, I think we're in Doomsday. Think everybody in dooms? Yeah? So yeah, crazy stuff there. Now in America. We'll talk off there. It's ridiculous. Captain America is going to be he got the perfect ending. But okay, hold on, hold on.

Was it revealed? Because I saw, like the Russo Brothers made some announcement and they're making four trailers for Doomsday And they start with the Avatar film that's coming out.

Yeah whenever nineteenth this Friday.

Yeah, and they're releasing four different trailers and the first one is Captain America. Did we know that Chris Evans was playing Captain America in Doomsday? Was that already previously announced?

I don't think so.

So this is a huge thing.

It is.

It was rumored for a while to the point where I'm like, did I know this or did I not know?

Yes? You know, it seems to me. I liked that we're on this standard. It seems to me like Marvel Studios and the Russo Brothers in general, like, you know what we're rebooting after Secret Wars. Fuck it, here's everything that you you Cretans want. Because to me, both Robert Downey and and Chris Evans had perfect endings an Endgame, and the idea that they're bringing it back, I absolutely hate. I'm sure they'll do a great job. I'm sure I'll like the movie. I'll say this, you don't need to

Two things that so Number one, I think I agree with the principle of what you're saying. But two things. One, since Endgame, Marvel has been in a down down, whether that's oversaturation or introduction of new.

Characters, or less quality product wokeness. I would I would, I would say that there's a lot of people, not me, obviously, sure I'm but it's definitely it's pervasive for sure. That's number one.

Number two, and this is the this is the caution, not that Marvel's listening to me, nor should they. And I can't remember who said this. You might have even said this.

I don't.

I'm not attributing this to to anyone, but I know it wasn't Neil came up with this. If you start now, I'm gonna butcher the quote. It's it's itself something to the effect of.

If if you were gonna give, you can't give people what they want, because if they truly wanted this, they.

Make it themselves, right and and so you have to give them what they don't know they want, right and and I think Marvel is kind of giving them what they want. It's to your to your point, which is a slippery slope here this is and I don't know if this is a hail Mary what they're doing with Doomsday. I think it's gonna be great. I think it's going to rejuvenate a lot of people's interests in the MCU.

But I don't know if it's gonna work right. And I think they know that they have a year and a half from or a year from now. They have a get out of jail free card. I enjoyed the Agents of Shield show. It had a slow start, but it did pick up. I never watched it, but it was only supposed to run five seasons. In the series finale at the end of his season almost had me in tears. That's how well they finished that size. And then they did it go five seasons. It went seven.

This is a this is the carbon copy of the Trinity Killer in Dexter. Yeah, right when when they when Liftgo dies spoiler alert, Yeah, they should have ended the show, right, and they've rebooted it right, although kind of three times actual resurrections.

I think in the top fifteen highest rated show of all time. Oh my god, Yeah, I have not seen it because, like you, I'm like, I'm not doing this, Like I've the ending was so bad at that point, but I always getting nervous to that kind of shit. Walking Dead.

I brought this up before once Megan was defeated. Yeah, there's walk off into the sunset, this huge time jump.

People stopped caring about these characters.

You'd introduce the Whisperers, which I thought was okay, But I think the problem with that is is the showrunner tried to make the Whisperers a bigger threat because they had to. They had to make it a bigger threat than the Saviors because otherwise, why are we watching?

Right?

And they weren't. I agree, and that it just wasn't it. And Jeffrey Dean Morgan was so much more compelling than I can't remember. The woman who.

I don't know, I don't know.

Yeah, she's a famous British actress. She's actually in something right now, like a big she's part of a big cast for a really good It might it might be I don't know what it is, but it's it's.

Getting to your point that it's not important.

We'll get into it some other time.

That might be what Marvel was struggling from as well. Is after you watched half of existence get snapped out of existence, it's hard to take mysterio seriously?

Why now?

Why is that? Because I just watched I just watched Spider Man and Company take on Thanos in an army of dangerous of like the most over the top. And now you're trying to get me to think that, like, oh, this guy who uses drones as projectors? How will we ever overcome this with Captain Marvel and freaking thor you know?

But that's the whole thing. And this is what I said.

I mean, it's scaling. You have to put in and they kind of do it. Well.

Why can't the Avengers help out here?

Or why is this?

Why am I watching this when I just saw the universe's greatest threat aniverses great.

I have a theory, Give me my tinfoil hat. I believe that's why the NFL periodically makes it harder or easier to score points, because we always have a new slew of young people putting up new records that we've never seen have. It always like it's an escalation back to what was, and if we ever went backwards, it'd be like, wait a minute, this sucks. You can make the.

Case that we're going backwards now because how defenses are played. Yeah, in the NFL, it's it's actually limiting scoring. People do have a problem.

With Yeah, I agree, But anyway, holy.

Cow, worst off topic off topic ever.

I love it.

Getting back to Wake Up Dead Man, I guess I should have seen it coming. I should have assumed somebody dies. I mean, I guess I assume somebody dies. Yeah, but I should have seen the whole waking up aspect because it's in the title and I never even thought of that. You know, I just I go in with these movies with so little preparation, and I think that's how I like it.

I go into it believing nothing is happening by accident, and I think that which.

Is true because what a great filmmakers do. They're telling you a story, and they're showing you parts of the story, and then they're also not showing you certain things, right, so everything is on or off screen for reasons. This is what I always problem. Have this problem with people who say that they're right down the middle journalistically, right, I have no agenda. I'm just reporting the facts. Well,

There or that it should even be a story or is this is this a story? Or is this not a story? But I'm still doing it, okay, So so I can't. I don't anybody who says that they are. And I used to be this person. Yeah, I used to be the.

Person that's like, yeah, I don't, I don't. I have no political affiliation, I have no and I probably publicly i'd still say that. But as far as like conservative versus liberal, atheist versus Christian or anything you know that's polarizing, right wokeness versus anti woke or whatever, everybody is on one side or the other. Now they may not be far, they might not be in the polarizer, but everybody is

How does that relate to the movie itself.

I'm saying the director is choosing to put certain things in as well as not include certain things. Now, what's and I would say it's more sometimes it's more compelling to find out. And we talk about the mcguffin all the time. What's what's not being included in the story?

You know?

Are we supposed to be wondering about that part because it's distracting us from something they are showing us on screen, right? Yeah, And so I think that's especially in these types of movies, it's always pretty propus.

And the mcguffin in this one being called Eve's Apple. I absolutely, yeah, I.

Mean it's but but the thing is, I don't think that's a true mcguffin because we kind of got an answer on that. Yeah, at the end of the film. The mcguffin is something where you literally you're like, hey, wait a minute, what what the hell happened with that?

See, you know I've always used that term because you've told me that before. I think I've used the term wrong my entire life. Like, to me, a mcguffin was always like, like if to bring it back into Avengers. In the original Avengers, it was the test erect, like, we know what it is. It's just like a thing. It's blue. Trust me, it's dangerous. You want to go get it? Like to me, that was always what a mcguffin was.

Like look it up sometimes it Hitchcock explains it better than I could. Yeah, and along with how it got its original name. But he's like, this is something that's that's you think is a plot device the whole time, and you're wondering about it. But in the end, it really doesn't mean anything in terms of the larger message and story. Yeah, you know so, so I would say that Eve's Apple was I don't know when.

Did we find out about it? Half hour into it? Yeah, maybe even a little longer at least like we learned about it literally like they have to talk about the fortune and like they kind of which was.

Kind of cool too because you had several mysteries being told in this ye who killed the guy? Like, w who is the murder? Where is Eve's Apple?

Is that what it's called? The apple of apple?

Where is Eve's Apple?

Right? So?

And ben Wan Blanc like and we you don't really know that he's doing it, which is another pretty cool thing about this movie and the way that Daniel Craig portrays his character and how Ryan Johnson brought brought out the best in this character. He's where he's dude, he we're we're at least me, You're you're probably playing chess. I was playing checkers. You were playing chess. Ben Wan Blanc is doing three D chess yea. And because he's working on so many different angles to this.

He's like a Southern Colombo, like he plays it off like he doesn't know what's good, but he knows, like he's yeah, he's just trying to find.

Even when he said he's like, yeah, I'm not really sure. I can't I can't explain this, he.

Knew, Yeah, well, was it bloc pooned by? Was the video poned? It's owned with a P Yeah? Oh yeah, he brought that up in the Yeah, I forgot about that the YouTubers. Yeah, because he was admitting he couldn't he couldn't solved.

But like so one of the characters basically is constantly.

He's an influence, an influencer.

He's constantly youtubing everything and putting it out there. And that's why this.

With a spin on it whips always nobody's down. Yeah, exactly. He had his own agenda there as well, did you because you started off bringing it up? Was the southern accent jarring to you? Like did you buy it? Yes?

But but then I was like, god, I should have seen the first two because I don't because I saw trailers for.

Glass Onion and.

Yeah, and I guess I didn't really I went I don't really remember him having a southern accent, and he damn well did not dress at least the stuff I saw in the first two trailers, like he dressed in this movie, and I'm like, is what is this?

Like?

Is this it's like a different Ben wa Blanc universe?

Where is this? You know?

Very distinguished, fashionable, southern gay man.

I didn't. I didn't.

Where is he from original?

At least if they if they announce it, I don't. I don't recall from the I saw the first one one time, like on a whim, like to date myself. I think I read boxed it, so like that should tell you around what era I was watching this movie.

So Daniel Craig, I'll say this about him, that dude, like we just at least I just associate James Bond with him. Yeah, but man was he He is a good actor.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And as someone who's never seen a Bond movie the whole way through, I associate him more with Ben Blanc than I do James obviously. Yeah.

And I'm trying to think, like, name another Daniel Craig movie besides this. Yeah, Okay, so the one that I come back to is Munich and Munich is I.

Wouldn't have even remembered he.

Was in that he and and I will say that that movie, it's it's pretty intense, it's pretty long, but it's pretty good. And he kind of plays this like very what's the proper term for.

Knee jerk, very immediate.

He he is a gung hole, like a gung hole type character in that movie. So I've seen him do that. I've seen him play the calm and cool bond and now this ultra smart southern gentleman like it's and he's British or English or whatever.

You're forgetting the elephant in the room. He also dressed up as a cowboy and fought aliens. Oh yeah, cowboys are sitting on the tree. Let's not lose the forest through the trees here. He was in one of the shitty uh Angelina Joe Lee tomb Raiders.

I did not know that.

Yeah, he was one of the villains in that. That's all I got. Yeah, and he and Logan Lucky. I never saw it. He might. Yeah, that's what all those racing movies did. You watch me try and push my glasses right there? That's what I thought.

You were just burying your face in your hands like it was.

I went to push my glass. They're not there.

Okay, so so he was great. I thought Glenn Close was very good in this movie as well. And I'm trying to think of the other. Oh, Josh O'Connor, let's talk about him. Yeah, so I mentioned this to you. I might have mentioned on.

The last what you might call it off topic.

I did not know who this guy was either, Okay, so maybe I didn't tell you this story. I didn't know who this guy was. And so when I'm looking at who is hosting SNL oh he did. Yeah, I told you this, And I went on wikiped I'm like, who is Josh O'Connor, And then I see it was purple because I clicked his name previously on that browser. I'm like, why because he was in Knives Out.

I'm looking at the at the thing right now, at the filmography, and I don't want to assume for you, But no, nothing, there's a single thing there has seen a lot of movies there.

There is one thing on there. It's probably close. It was some like criminal movie. He was the lead in it. I can't remember the name. But if you're on the page, the mastermind Mind that's what it was. Came out this year. Not familiar with yeah, and and it's like the cast was okay in that, but he was the lead in that as well. So I think he's kind of taking off. He's going to get something in, you know, Fast and Furious or Marvel or something like he's on that path.

Yeah, I would agree, but he.

Was And he was really good hosting SNL too.

He was very good in this. He plays like a very conflicted because he's a violent individual who's kind of given over his life faith.

And we found out he can be a bit of a drunk, which was integral to the to the storyline as well. Yeah, I thought he was.

Great and solid range and the I just I always marvel at these uh actors from across the pond that can pull off an American accent.

Yeah, seeming seemingly so effortless.

Absolutely, and I think the whole cast did a very good job because when it when there's religious overtones, you could go too far in either direction and your cast

This was a Catholic fa Now I'm Lutheran, which is funny because Lutherans and Catholics basically believe almost exactly the same stuff, yet we hate each other, which I think is hilarious.

Right, So so for.

Me, I don't and like any time, like, I'm not offended as a Christian when liberties are taken with Christianity.

Movie. It's just that, Hey, it's the world we live in.

I'm not gonna get bent out of shape it, you know. And everybody's got a different viewpoint on it, so I respect that. So for me, this was just not It didn't. It did not register for me, but I didn't know how it would register for somebody like you or other people in this movie. Apparently it didn't. It didn't really turn anybody off.

And because of the race, the reviews and I was even looking from the given the soup that I swim in, I'm like, are they going to portray this like some kind of backwoods you know, oh rapidity? And they they paid it the necessary respect while not going too far over. I thought it was that perfect blend. You don't get over ninety percent approval by people if you if you go too far one way or the other.

In my opinion, you know what was wild about this is so this was rural ups I'm assuming upstate New York.

Yeah. Sorry, Uh, the people, the characters in this were not rural people. No.

You had a famous author as one of the characters, a very successful attorney right as one of one of the characters, a doctor, and and they all seemed very well to do, like city folk almost ben and and they were they were all in this rural setting. So I think that that that's another thing too, that.

Daniel Craig was more Craig was more country than they were. Yeah, without a doubt.

Yeah, So so I mean I thought that was interesting as well.

Yeah.

And then a YouTube influencer for God's Yea as one of them too.

That's what I think. That's what stuck out to me, like there was a remake of the two thousand movie Cabin Fever, real yeah, real quick.

And I didn't know there was a remake. Yeah, so we have to talk about that.

Yeah, I almost like you said, Jeff Bridges again, Josh, same initials too.

That's another thing that's.

Always mix them up with Pierce Bras and go ahead.

You think that he's like this country preacher and then he's confessing, Yeah to Josh O'Connor's character and some of the stuff he's confessed, Like, Okay, this guy is not a country No.

Absolutely, if you were interested in his masturbation habits, this is the perfect movie for you. Yes. Uh. In the the remake, it's literally.

A like Cavin Fever, I did like quite a bit.

Me too, And this is a line for line remake. They didn't change a single thing, but yeah, no, not the same cast. But the casting is what stuck out to me because it's the first time. It's not the last time, but it's the first time I remember seeing a movie where they have a guy who's built like me, scraggly hair, clearly like the Dweeby character of the group.

That's how you get any people to care about this movie? Yeah, I guess because I think the characters in one and two they're all pretty well to do obviously.

The second one one, yeah, and one I can tell you they are Yeah.

And then the second one, isn't there a big fortune up for grabs and it's all believes.

I'm picturing gal Gadot because that one line she delivers is infamous enough Champagne to fill denial and it's like one of the but she's very ornate in that scene, So I probably I haven't seen the second one.

This one, I guess there's a huge treasure or or financial Yeah, sure aspect as.

Well, but no one is nearly as well off as I mean, that's why it's eve Zapple, right. It's the temptation, yeah of it. So like I loved it. I thought that was solid, but yeah, great flick knives out four? Are you in or out? Yeah? And I think the beautiful thing about this is is it could go forever. Yeah, because you'll only need one character and if I mean, God forbid, like Daniel.

Listen, at some point they're going to introduce a younger.

That's what I'm saying. He could get too old or pass away in real life, and you just put somebody else in there, and you can just keep this role into infinity. It's Daniel Craig does great. I don't want to minimize what he does, but it's not like it's irreplaceable either. Yeah, and so you could do these movies forever. I'd be there. Not only am I there for Knives Out four, I'm here for Knives Out seven, as long as they keep the mysteries good and the quality is Yeah.

So Ryan Johnson does Knives Out and he also does American Horror Story, I believe. And then what else is did he do a Star Wars movie?

Yes, the the most the eighth one, like that's like the most controversial one. One was the most controversial one. Well only because the eighth one sets stuff on like the ninth one essentially had to counteract. And again it does go back to woken this, but I can tell you as someone who that doesn't bother. I saw the eighth Star Wars in theaters with a huge Star Wars fan, a guy I worked with, became good friends with at the time. We haven't spoken in years. We go and

I think I brought this up with you before too. I watched I rented a couple of movies, rented movies Ben on videotape, Preach way back in the Day, Love It. I was at my girlfriend now wife's wife's house, and I gave her a choice. I'm like, hey, one of these, because I always stay up later than her. I'm like, I'm gonna watch one of these after you go to bed. You have your choice of which one. We watched together, and uh, we watched Napoleon Dynamite.

Yeah. Nice. And then I watched Open Water, which I think I've told you about.

You know open Water?

Of course, did I tell you the story? I think so hit me with it.

The punchline is open Water was the best movie I saw that. Yes, I did not Napoleon Dynamite, another cult classic. Probably should love it, I don't get. I don't get why people love it.

True story. I saw it one time. I did laugh, I did find it funny. I have not seen it since that time that I saw it. I never went back for a second Viewing is someone that will watch things multiple times over. I never saw Napoleon Dynamite. I saw open Water a second time, and I didn't particularly like it either time. No, the part that ruins it for me. For open Water, I can't watch the first whatever it is, hour fifteen. Yeah, I just once they're.

Floating in the water and they and then that first shark rubs by him. That's the only part I care about.

Now. I don't care about the guy realizing they left him out there. I don't care about the whole build up that the woman in that movie smoking hot, and I believe there's a sex scene in that movie too, which is great. But the whole movie for me is the end when they're floating in the water. So yeah, So now open Water I can't rewatch except for the last twenty minutes, which I'd argue you basically just described the Blair Witch Project that movie. That's a That's another good thing.

Too, like you can only take that suspense when you know what's happening. You can only take that suspense like once or twice and then that's like okay.

Oh, one more tangent, then we can wrap it up. Have you ever seen Memento? Yeah? Yeah?

Have you ever seen Memento a second time? Don't because I want to die. My brain was scrambled the first time. And then I feel like if I would have watched it a second time knowing like how it quote ends, sure, I don't think i'd enjoy it.

It's two and a half hours of very very dry movie. I didn't realize it was two and a half home yes, and when you know the ending. I showed it to my friends in college and they all loved it, and I wanted to jump off something by the end because I knew where it was. Chopher Nolan, Yeah, it was okay. It was I think his second or maybe even his first, No, because he had some insomnia with al Pacino came out first. It was a second movie, and I mean that's how you get that note direct insomnia.

That does not feel like a Christopher Norman.

I think he did. I hope I'm not mising remembering that, but I'm pretty sure. I feel like because after I saw Memento, I remember googling, like, I need to see every movie this guy's ever done, I think.

But yes, and I think Nolan was like, Okay, now I have carte blanche to do whatever I want. Yeah, people are gonna pay me. Yes they did that. What's Dunkirk? Weird movie but cool? Yeah, Inception and then Tennett with uh.

I still haven't seen that. Actually, it's available on Netflix. I still haven't seen it.

You're probably smart enough to like it.

See I've heard. I really got to pay attention to that one.

And so there's a lot of stuff going on where I'm not really sure that like Kenneth I think Kenneth Branas in that movie too, the Gold Woman from.

Gold Guardians of the Galaxy. Oh oh yeah, I don't know who plays her, but I know she's in this film.

John David Washington, John John H. Dezel, Washington's kid, He's great in it. But yeah, there's a lot. I'm just like, I think it was a cool ending.

Yeah, but I don't know. Oh sure, yeah, and he's of course next year we will be doing the first weekend. It comes out of childhood. Favored of mine is The Odyssey, so we absolutely Christopher Nolan's getting the Yeah, with Toby maguire or not Toby McGuire, Tom Holland, and uh wasn't Andrew Garfield? Yeah right now. No, But there's a there's two or three other people in the cast as well

But yeah, he's in yeah.

Yeah.

But I found out Sadie Sink, who's in Stranger Things, is being cast in that Spider which comes out in July.

Am I remember, Yeah, I believe. Yeah, Like, well, we're we're finally getting out of the end of your months and we're gonna start getting into some releases again here. But there's a ton of ship coming out next year that I'm very excited about. Have you, by the way, you buying into this Avatar not an avatar? You know, I'm not an avatar guy either.

I watched the trailer and I'm like, yeah, I mean, I guess I can see why it's cool, but I'm definitely not.

Did you see that during the the NFL Sunday they were advertised? I was like, this is by far the best, Like it's not even a close.

Well yeah, okay, but that's that's what the part.

I get it. I get it, I get it. But I'm just saying, like, very rarely. Oh, Matt Damon's in in the freaking yeah. Robert Pattinson, Elliott Page, z Daya, Anne Hathaway, John Barenthal, Berenthal is in it. Okay, Yeah, yeah, it should be cool.

Who's playing Homer? Is that Tom Holland?

No, he is playing Telemachus, and Odysseus is by uh is Matt Damon?

So Homer? I thought was Homer wrote?

Yeah?

He wrote, he wrote it, Odysseus iss Damon.

It's the honesty. Like that's where the time literally comes.

See this listen as far as like stuff I actually did learn in school, Yeah, it has been a long time and I have forgotten a lot of that.

But like it's cool because like if you saw Troy, yeah, yeah, like the last the last ten minutes of that movie is the first ten minutes of the Odyssey, got it, So you actually see this wait Odysseus in I think it was a throw, yeah, but you see him like crafting the tiny horse like in the background doing the things,

But uh yeah, let's let's get into.

Ratings. Yeah, eight, I think I'm we go eight borderline eight and a half. Yeah, I didn't think you'd be that high.

I'm actually an eight on this as well, and I don't think it's It's an eight and a half for me, and it probably should be because this had all the elements of stuff I like, good cast, smart writing, not too smart where I can't follow it, and still some some not one but multiple reveals towards the end of this movie, which was really cool. And I guess you know what, I will go eight and a half because I don't know why else I can't. I don't. I don't have a good reason of rating it lower than

Four years ago? That feels like a COVID era film to me. Let's see. Okay, so then that would be five, and then when did the first one come out? Too?

Was like, how many years before a glass onion did?

Ns Onion was twenty two?

Okay, so that was three years ago. And then the original Knives out was what year nineteen? So every three years, so we should get one in twenty eight.

I'll take it.

Yeah, and Daniel Craig will still be looking good enough to play Ben will Blanc if he wants to. That dude famously hated playing James Bond. Yes, so I don't know if he'll have the same take, but.

This feels more artistically expressive. Yes, then Bond.

Movie, you don't have to be in super good six pack abs shape to do it.

You're playing a character like I feel like James Bond is just playing himself, but like with Fancy Gadget as a robot, yeah yeah, whereas this is like it's I don't want to say flamboyant, but there is an element to flamboyant. There's much more, there's much more range you can you can take this week. I'm telling you, I'm excited for you to see the first one because he really like.

All right, So so I have to see the first two.

I mean I I I the second one as well. We'll reconvene in three weeks.

I am going to I have to. I'm waiting through Stranger Things. And my mom sent me a text today she's worried about my twelve year old son watching season four and season five, which apparently are much more adult themed, with with.

Yeah, so I should be.

If you're I should be worried about this, then maybe.

I should be. I'm not saying you should be worried. I'm saying they're more adult themed.

So you would obviously let my if it was your twelve year old son.

Yeah, go ahead. You want to know a funny story to wrap up, because we're calling it a year after this one exactly because you always give me this crap, because I want you to see the variations of things. I worked with a guy on a country station. His name was Broadway in Pittsburgh, and he had sons ten and eight years old, and Infinity War had just come out, and he said, can I take a ten and eight year old to see Infinity War? What's your answer? Yes? Okay,

I know you're gonna go with like, oh, he actually fires the weapon.

Yeah No, No, it was the word nuts and apparently, and like as it did with you, it didn't even register with me that that happened. I moved on to the next line of dialogue immediately, So like what I let what I let my kids see stranger things. For of course I would. If you wouldn't have told me someone told you that it was more, it wasn't.

She sent me like some stuff on the internet where people and so again it's in the eye of the beholder.

Yeah. So I'm about to binge the Dairy Show over Christmas Break on HBO. It's Johnny Geord's and he told me that the finale goes so freaking hard. Do you need to watch the I assume so it is a prequel. Yeah, but I assume and I know probably what happens in it. Yeah, but I haven't seen like the remake and the second one. Yeah, I don't know. I have seen it that I'm intending to go into it. But that's We're off for a couple of weeks. That's why we're telling you what we're doing for the next couple.

So no no show next week, for during Christmas week, no show, New year Year's week.

We will reconvene. I believe it is January the seventh.

Yeah, we will do it. And we don't know what we're doing yet. Avatar, Oh, we're doing Avatar. Okay, unless you got a better idea.

I don't.

That's what I'm asking you. Yeah, and so that's fine. So now so now I got to watch two Glass two Knives out. Yeah, I have to watch Freaking the Water to watch one Avatar. I watched the first one.

I refuse to rewatch the first one. I'm not going to rewatch that one watching the first one. Much like Napoleon Diamondite. Once was enough, Yeah, and.

I would, well, once was enough. After I saw it, I'm like, I didn't really need to see that, but I did need to see it.

Did see it in theaters? No, I rented it. Oh, I meant Avatar? Oh Avatar? I did? Yeah, okay, and that didn't make you like it? You saw in three D yes, and you know what? And now I'm embarrassed to admit this. Two different times. I fell asleep in that movie two different times. Well, it's a long movie. It's not particularly exciting for the first two hours and fifteen minutes.

My wife I saw it with my brother in law and my wife was with his wife and his ex wife. Now they were at a Rascal Flats concert in Green Bay, and we went to see Avatar. And I do not like country music.

And there was a couple of times, like, God, I wish I was at that concert right now.

I mean, I just it's just it's so long. Apparently I'm racist against blue people. Yeah, it was hard for me to care.

I don't know.

I'll give it a shot because of the technical you know, the cinematography and everything, like whatever.

I'm optimistic about this. I'll take your word for it. Yeah, well it's not my word, it's my gun. I'm taking your gut for you. Yeah, okay, that's fulky. I'm been We got to call it a show here. We'll talk to you guys in the new year.