This is the world's biggest atheist and he is about to erupt on live TV over this. Dawkins has a view of cheap grace. A real forgiveness comes from restitution, from cost, from sacrifice. It is his son who in obedience to the divine will, living the divine will in a society that has gone wrong. That is corporately wrong, which is what original sin means by. The way so there can be no let me.
Let me just finish. It is his obedience in the context of a corrupt society that leads to his death. That is his sacrifice, and it is that which restores what was broken between God and human being. So. There could be no forgiveness without a death, is it? No, no, it's not. I'm not saying that there can be no forgiveness without cost. How can you applaud that? How did you? Applaud because it's true. But it gets worse. This time, they laugh at him over the silliness of atheism.
And, and can I just interrupt? It's an old question, a very old question. Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century was asking the same question, he said. There must have been a time when no physical things existed, but something can't come from nothing. That was his view. It's. Just. Something can come from nothing, and that's what physicists are now are now telling us. I could give you what you asked me to give you a a layman's interpretation. It would be a very, very
layman's interpretation. When you have matter and antimatter and you put them together, they cancel each other out and give rise to to nothing. What Lawrence Krauss is now suggesting is that if you start with nothing, the process can go into reverse and produce matter and antimatter. The the theory is still being worked out. It's a very difficult theory, mathematical theory. I'm not qualified to answer the the the question. George Pell, thank you. But the trouble?
Well, there are many troubles with Richard's teachings, but a fundamental one is that he dumbs down God and he soups up nothing. He he he can, he continually talks as though God is some sort of upmarket figure within space and time. Now from 1 four 5500 BC where with the Greek philosophers, God is outside space and time. God is necessary, self-sufficient, uncaused, unconditioned. That's the hypothesis you've got
to wrestle with. The second thing is that Kraus says nothing about The Big Bang coming out of nothing. What he says is is what he what the Richard is describing is nothing is a sort of a mixture of particles and perhaps a vacuum with electromagnetic forces working on it. That's what Krauss is talking about under the heading of nothing. But you can. Quickly. Respond to You can dispute exactly what's what's meant by by nothing. But whatever it is, it's very very simple and.
Why is that? Funny. Well, I think it's a bit funny to be trying to define nothing. However, Bill O'Reilly is one man who would not let Richard Dawkins boss him around. Am IA 100% sure that Jesus is God? No, but I choose to believe that because the man was so extraordinary in what he did in his 33 years on Earth, still resonates to this day.
That, I think, is more powerful than your belief that, hey, someday we might figure it all out, but in in the meantime, we're not going to believe in any deity. Why would you muddle up the question of of giving you a moral compass for life, which is important with the other question, which is explaining the nature of the world, the nature of life, the nature of the universe, that's what science. Is about. OK, and I understand that. But I don't think that my belief
system contradicts science. And I do believe that there is a high power in in in my life. I can point to it. I see it. But what disturbs me about you guys, and I'm putting you into this category, perhaps unjustly, is that you seem to look down on believers well.
There is a problem when you guys, if I could turn it back on, you try to say that because you believe what you do, because of a holy book and because of the way you've been, you've been brought up. Therefore that entitles you to go into science classes and tell teachers what they can or cannot teach. You may think that God oversaw evolution, and that's a point of view that you could probably
defend. But leave it out of the science class, Chris. It's not fair to leave it out of the science class if the science class is incomplete and you, by your own admission say we don't know how it all began. So if the science class is going to say evolution only, but I really don't know how it started, that gap has got to be explored. You must see that it's quite remarkable piece of illogic to say that because science can't fill a particular gap, therefore we have to turn to Christianity.
You don't have. To turn anywhere, you just have to present it. You don't have to turn to it, you present it. Will you listen to me and stop shouting at me? Am I? Well, turn your ears just because science, That's the way I usually talk. Go ahead. OK, I know it is. I've been warned about it just because science. Listen, even though Dawkins patronized this Christian, I believe the man still gave a
beautiful response. I would like to ask you, Professor, what do you have to say to someone, to someone who has met the risen and living Lord Jesus Christ, who has walked with God for over 50 years? What did you have to say? Because I assure you, for my
life it has been no delusion. If you had been born in India, I dare say you would be saying the same thing about Lord Krishna and Lord Shiva. If you had been born in Afghanistan, I dare say you would be saying the same thing about Allah. If you had been born in Viking, Norway, you would be saying the same thing about Voltan. If you'd been born in Olympian Greece, you'd be saying the same thing about Zeus and Apollo. The human mind is extremely
susceptible to hallucination. Sir, I'm being allowed by the friend I used to work with to come back. I cannot afford to build my life on hallucination, but on Jesus Christ, who is the rock? And it is that I have asked you to address, please. You are obviously sincere, but obviously I do not share your beliefs and I think you are hallucinating. That's all I can say. I don't doubt your sincerity. Something kind of unusual happened when Piers Morgan pressed Richard Dawkins.
Watch carefully and tell me, do you see what I see? Do you have a view about that? I'd rather not. Say. You rather not say. I haven't studied it enough. And as such, should we show mercy and allow her back to this country? Yes, I'm not, I'm not going to say about that. Are you worried about, would you get threats because of the positions you've taken on some of these things? Yeah. Didn't send a shudder through. Are you saying no, you don't want to talk about it or yes,
right. I mean, that's interesting in itself because it isn't. There are areas which you would prefer not to discuss. Yes. I should have said that before we started. Yeah, no, but listen, I'm I think it's sad that you can't. I don't think anything should be off limits in interviews with people like you. The whole point of the world's smartest thinkers is we ought to be able to have free and open debate. But I don't think we do. Because you think happens when you die.
As Bertrand Russell said, I believe that when I die I shall rot and nothing of my ego shall remain. That's it. Yes. The end? Nothing. There's nothing else. How could it? How? Could it be? Otherwise, I mean you you have a brain, an evolved brain which works by nerve impulses, and when that decays, what could? Possibly be left. Given the finality of what you think death to be, do you fear it as you get older? I fear the process of dying, but when you're dead, you don't know
anything. It's just like before you were born. I think it was Mark Twain said. I was. I was dead for billions of years before I was born and never suffered the smallest inconvenience. But when? When you have loved ones who've died, for example. That's tragic. How? How do somebody who believes literally in the finality, the the rotting of a body and that's it. It must be worse than for somebody like me, where I genuinely believe there's something better to come. It's worse. So what?
Did you notice it too, that suddenly, when Dawkins was pressed on the question of life after death, his fire, his demeanour and even, dare I say, his arrogance had diminished. You see, age and death has a way of humbling every single one of us. When we're young, when we're full of vigour, oh, there is a pride about us. We think we've got energy. We think we're invincible. But as we get older, as we hear the grave whisper our name, suddenly we realize we haven't got that long left.
Suddenly we realize just how weak and fragile we actually are. I guarantee that every atheist who can hear my voice right now will disagree with what I'm about to say next. But I personally do believe that as Dawkins gets older and older, eternity will be in the back of his mind. I wonder if he ever asks himself that question which made him so very famous on the Internet, that question that was even made into a cartoon on South Park.
What if you're wrong? I wonder if Richard Dawkins ever asks himself, what if I am actually wrong? After spending an entire career convincing millions of people that God doesn't exist and getting incredibly rich from doing it, What if this God it does exist? And what if I'm about to stand in front of my maker, who I've
mocked my entire life? Christopher Hitchens, who was a close friend of Richard Dawkins, also made a career out of scoffing at the God of Heaven and what I'm going to say next. I say with fear and trembling, but I believe the Lord removed him, and the one who wrote a book entitled God Is Not Great. I promise you this. He'll be regretting every single syllable, and he'll have all of eternity to do so.
Why? Because he will realize the complete opposite, that God really is great, and that great God will make that proud man bow the knee to him, his maker. Perhaps you're an atheist now and what I say is bothering you, or maybe even angers you. Well, can I ask you a question? Often I hear atheists say God is nothing more than a belief, like believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Well, if I said that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will cast you into eternal darkness, I somehow doubt it wouldn't upset you or bother you as much as when I say a man like Richard Dawkins or any man or woman who rejects the Lord Jesus Christ will be cast into a lake of fire for all of eternity. Why does that bother you if God is not real? If you are an atheist, can I ask you to do a private test right
now? I want you to ask yourself personally if the Bible is true when I read these verses, because you are mentioned here in my scripture. It says for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
For since the creation of the world, His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. In other words, if you are a professing atheist, the Bible says that deep down in your very epicentre, you know God exists. You can see the fingerprints of God in all of creation. All around you can see design.
And there is a little quiet voice within every single one of us. Whether we profess Christ or whether we reject Him, every single one of us can hear that still, quiet voice. I have a maker. I have a Creator, and one day when I die, I will meet him. And yet what does the atheist do? The Bible says they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Let me be transparent with you. I have actually made two vows to God. There are two things I've promised God I will never do again.
And in the Lord's grace I've managed to keep those vows. But they are so hard to keep at times. And if I'm honest, just being totally honest with you right now, there have been points where I think it would be so much easier if I just pretended God didn't exist, if I became an atheist. And I thought, well, you know, there's all these questions and there's all these things, and that doesn't make sense. Do you know what?
I'll just pretend God doesn't exist and I can go back to enjoying those things I once used to enjoy. But here's the crunch. Deep down I know I would just be pretending. And I truly do believe this. I think many atheists who are listening right now, you're only pretending that God doesn't exist in your very inner being. I truly do believe there's that still, quiet voice. And as death draws close as you can, smell the scent, just how vulnerable you are, just how fragile you are.
I know there is a desire. There's a desire to draw close to God. And yet many of you suppress that desire. You reject the Lord God. Why? Because it would cost you so greatly. I mean, imagine if Richard Dawkins renounced everything he's ever taught, everything he's ever said about God, and said, I put my trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. Imagine how much that would cost him. Yet the Bible would teach this, that if Richard did, that he would be rewarded tenfold in the
Kingdom of heaven. But if you're a Christian right now, I hear what you say, you say there's no way that Richard Dawkins would ever convert to Christianity. Well, if that's you, I want to remind you that God's mercy runs deep and no one is beyond God's grace. History has shown us that. History has shown US men and women who we once thought were irredeemable. And yet, in their final seconds of life, they repented.
Oscar Wilde, who lived a very sinful life and encouraged others to do so, is recorded to have converted to Christianity in his final moments. Steve McQueen, who lived a life of money, fame and countless moments of passion. Did you know? He asked the American evangelist Billy Graham to visit him when he realized his time on earth
was running out? And later Steve McQueen very publicly declared that Jesus Christ was his Lord and Saviour, George Bernard Shaw, who very much like Richard Dawkins, spent a career disrespecting his creator. He wrote something very telling in his play Too True to be Good. The science to which I pin my faith is bankrupt. In their name I helped to destroy the faith of millions means of worshippers in the temples of 1000 creeds. And now they look at me and witness the great tragedy of an
atheist who lost his faith. And in April 2023, Josh Timonen, an atheist who had made Richard Dawkins so proud that he decided to dedicate an entire book to him. In April of 2023, Josh emailed a ministry called Living Waters. He wanted to get the attention of a very famous creationist who Dawkins had also publicly mocked. Ray Comfort. Why? Did Josh get in touch? Did he also want to laugh at
Ray? No, he wanted to let Ray Comfort know that he had forsaken atheism and had also trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ. The fact is this God is full of surprises and no one is beyond his grace. Even Richard Dawkins, while he has breath in his lungs, there is still chance for him to turn and get saved. But what about you? You see, we've talked about Richard Dawkins and at the time that we filmed this video, he is 82 years old and we're talking about death drawing near.
But the reality is he could very much live another 20 years. And someone who's 18, who's listening to me right now could die tomorrow. I might not live till tomorrow. And yet every single one of us the Bible teaches we will all stand before our maker. The Bible says for we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. That each one may receive the things done in the body according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Are you imagining this right now?
Whether you have millions of atheistic disciples like Richard Dawkins, or whether you just have a few up votes on the atheism subreddit, every single one of us will stand before the Lord Jesus Christ. And so you'd be very wise to commit your way and your life to him whilst you're still alive today. All friends, don't be foolish. Don't think I think, well, I'll just do what those other men did before. I will commit my life to the Lord Jesus Christ on my deathbed.
I'll live my whole life how I want to and that's it. I can just jump into heaven after that. Friends, you know many will not have that luxury. Many do not know the hour they will be called and it will be sudden for some. Many will be overcome in those final moments with so much that they have no time to think about the Lord Jesus Christ. So today, if you can hear that still quiet voice whispering, call out to me. Call out to me and I'll save you.
If today you can see the Son of God dying on that cross for all the untrue things you've said about him, for all the times you've mocked him, for all the times you've turned your back on him. If today you can see Christ dying in your place for all of your sins so that you could be forgiven, please do not turn the other way. Please do not resist the voice of God, but call upon His name and He'll save you and he'll wash away all of your sins.
He'll give you a New Hope. He'll put a smile on your face, and He'll show you that I am God. And for your whole life, you'll think, Why did I spend my life rejecting this wonderful Saviour who has loved me so much and bought me with a price? If you are an atheist and you've got all of these questions and all of these doubts you might be saying to me, OK, Joe, yes, perhaps there is a God, and perhaps you are right about the Lord Jesus Christ.
I do feel convicted as you're speaking right now. And there is part of me that wants to draw close to God. But what do I do with all of my questions? Am I supposed to just take my brain and just throw it out of the window? Because now I'm a Christian? I don't think logically, no. What I'm telling you to do is believe that Christianity is actually very rational. You see many people atheists on the streets. They say to me, oh, I went to a Catholic school.
Oh, I know all about. I've read the Bible before and that's why I've rejected it. No, that is so different When you're a child and you're being taught it in a classroom setting that is so different. And now you're at a mature age. We're able to think and dissect things. I'm asking you if you're willing to put in the work.
Open up some good books, study the evidence for the resurrection, study the evidence for the credibility of the Bible, study intelligent design, study the moral argument, Study all of these things and you'll soon find that you are not irrational at all if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. In fact, when you realize the evidence for the resurrection, you will realize it is the most sensible thing on Earth.
To do and here's the beautiful parts, whilst you have all of these questions, God will be patient with you. There was a man in the Bible called Thomas who was a very close friend of the Lord Jesus Christ. But he did not see Jesus risen from the dead. All the other disciples had seen it and they were sort of buzzing around saying, Thomas, have you heard about it?
Jesus has risen from the dead. And Thomas said, unless I take my hand and put it in the nail prints, unless I take my hand and put it in his side, I will not believe. In other words, seeing was believing Thomas was a sceptic. But the Lord Jesus Christ didn't just cast Thomas off, he didn't say, Well if Thomas doesn't believe, fine, go his own way. I've got no time for him anymore.
No, Jesus very patiently arrived right in front of Thomas and said, here, Thomas, take your finger and put it in the nail prints. Here, take your hand and put it in my side. Don't be unbelieving, but believe. Here is the God of Heaven, the one who created the universe and the billions and billions of stars. And yet he's letting a doubting man prod him and poke him just so he can believe. And that same Christ is the same Christ. He'll be patient with you today with all of your doubts.
He'll let you examine him. But you've got to come. You've got to receive him, and you've got to call out to him to save you. So please do that today. Well, you still have opportunity. Jordan Peterson, you have to agree, is not a man who has thrown his brain out of the window. He weighs everything up, and he's incredibly intelligent.
Well, did you know he took on? Well, he didn't take him on, but he had a conversation with one of the world's most famous atheists, Stephen Fry, and he asked him some very tough questions. Check out this video here. And if you haven't yet subscribed, please do me a favour. We'd love to see you again next Saturday, 9:30 Eastern Time.