Tate Donovan

were praying or something like that. Like, you know, I was like, what, I had no idea, Like they didn't. They didn't need to look at me at all. Hey, it's day Donovan, and I've been around a long time. You've probably seen me in something and you're probably gone, what's that guy's name? Yeah, I've seen him in other things. Hello, my friends, and welcome to yet another episode of Off the Beat. I am your excitable host, Brian bomb Partner. Now today's guest, as you just heard, is the amazing

and very funny Tate Donovan. Now, Tate has taken on a huge range of roles. Everyone knows him, but I've noticed that fans seem to recognize him for something different depending on their age. I mean to give you a sense. He worked on The O C as Jimmy Cooper, otherwise known as the resident Dad facing embezzlement charges, which I assure you is a thing. He also guest starred on Friends for five episodes, was in Damages with Glenn Close.

He was an Argo good Night and good Luck Manchester by the Sea, and you or your kids might even recognize his voice as the title character of Disney's Hercules in both the film and TV series. Tate has truly done it all. So today we're gonna get into those roles, Tate's directing career and how he has found common in

a variety of genres, shows, and characters. This was such a pleasure for me, So without further at you, Kate Donovan, Bubble and Squeak, I love it Bubble and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker, Cookie, every moment left over from the Nabby. What's update, Brian? How are you? I'm great, man, I'm great. I'm so happy to be talking to you. Oh my gosh, I'm so happy to be talking to you. Thank you so much for joining me. Here are you kidding me? I'm a I'm a huge fan. Well, listen, I'm a

huge fan of yours as well. I'm I'm gonna be fan boying all over you today. I wanted to start, however, to go to go back before before I knew who you were. Remarkably, you grew up in Jersey. Is this right? You grew up in Jersey? Now at this point it was kind of a national pastime to make fun of Jersey when you were growing up. Did you have a complex about that or were you Oh? Yeah, I still do. I still do. I have a total complex. When everyone asked me like, where are you from, I'm like, outside

of New York City. I can where, uh the New Jersey right right right across the George Washington Bridge. Yeah, it's it's so far. I used to lie about it all the time because you're right, I mean, growing up, you know, in the seventies, listening to Saturday Night Live, every joke was about how he's from New Jersey, you know, Rosanne, Zanna Dana. It was just like all the idiots were from New Jersey. It was like the cancer capital of the world. Everybody made fun like what eggs it? Are

you from? In New Jersey? You know, like they didn't have towns or anything just exits off the turnpike. Yeah. Yeah, I'm still a little I still I need a couple more sessions with my therapist and I should be ready to accept that I'm from the Jersey. Yeah, I but I'm told which is again, this is this is not what I would have expected that that you you never locked your doors as a child. There It's like it was it was it did you feel safe? Well? Yeah,

we never had a lock on our doors. Like when my parents finally sold the house, they were like, okay, can we have the keys? And they're like, we haven't seen keys in a hundred and fifty years. Um, we've never had keys. I remember one time we went away for vacation. We used to vacation out in Long Island, which is sort of like the second worst place to be from um and like the north Shore, not the beautiful Hamptons opposite. Yeah, we left our front door open

for two weeks. Finally, our our next door neighbor was like, hey, uh, you know, can I close your front door? It's been opened for two weeks. And I'm like we're like yeah, sorry, sorry, thank you. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I never locked a bike in my life, you never locked a bike. No, not until I went to college. Did you ever have a bike stolen? I guess this's then the next question. Uh,

you know yeah, um borrowed, Yeah, borrowed. Yeah, like kids would take your bike, you know, and to mess with you. But you know it's never stolen. We always got it back and you know, yeah wow, but you know my first bike I was stolen was in New York City and I went up to audition and I have run up the stairs through audition. I locked my bike. It's like one of those kryptonite bikes, you know, like bike locks. It was like guaranteed. And I run up to the

audition and that I find out it's not there. So I run back down. I must have been gone thirty five seconds and my bike was stolen. I was anyway, New York City, different place. Yeah, that's a that's a different place. You were the youngest of six kids. Now did you did you feel like you needed to do something to stand out as a child or were you were you? Were you all fairly close and well adjusted? Or I mean I'm asking more, when did you start performing?

And I don't mean professionally, I mean, when did you feel like you started right? Yeah, well, um, at the age of four, I went to see a movie with my parents and I wanted to sit away from them. I always wanted to be like an adult or I don't know, for some weird reason, I just wanted to be like independent. So I sat away from them. And

it was a movie about medieval nights. I don't know what movie it was, but it was like st and I just looked up on that screen and I was like, Oh my god, that's what I want to do that for a living. I want to I want to be in a movie. And and what's interesting is that my next thought was, Wow, if I feel this way, everybody must feel this way, Like I must be really hard.

You can't just waltz into that, you know. But I sort of had to keep that a secret because, um, I would do high school plays and and stuff like that all the time. But my parents were I came from a crazy group of kids. Like we weren't adjust well adjusted, let's just put it that way, Like besides murder, we basically committed every sin you could possibly do. It was like the sixties and seventies. It's just a crazy time.

And teenagers in my family were just nutbags. So I was just sort of like conservative one and went into a theater and acting. So that's shows you how crazy my not politically conservative, but no lifestyle, lifestyle conservative. So you're just doing high school plays. But are you at that point, you know, you started four, you're doing high school plays. Are you still committed, like this is what you want to do? You were, you were an early

you decided early what you wanted to do with your life. Yeah, I did. And and I remember hearing Meryl Street get interviewed and she said when she was in high school, she would pretend that she was already a professional actress and that she would get involved in every show like like like it was a job, like she needed the money and and so that's what I did. I was just like, you know, I'll take a small role here, I do I do? I have no lines in some

play in the school musical. Uh, you know, I would just be on stage or whatever, you know, like carry a spear and then I'd be the lead and something else I was. I was just like I wanted to do it so badly, and I had to keep it a complete secret. It was it was, Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, my dad was a doctor and my mother wanted me to be a lawyer or you know, something decent that required an education and stuff like that, and yeah, yeah,

it was heartbreaking for them when you made the decision. Yeah, when I told him I I was in college. I told him I was going to a major in theater. And my dad literally for two and a half years, did not talk to me. Wow, he's he sent me articles from the New York Times about either how impossible it is to become an actor or like he'd sent these articles on these actors who just like became stars and never take an acting class in their life, you know, like he just thought it was a giant waste of

you know, education to study theater. It's like the dumbest thing, right, And he may be right. Actually, wait, so you so you're your New York City adjacent so you're not you're you're not auditioning in the city. You're just doing school plays and trying to do that and kind of pretending to your parents have this was a hobby. And then how do you find because USC because I actually, you know, I applied to USC, was actually offered a scholarship, Thank

you very much. I didn't go to USC, but I but that that was like it wasn't necessarily a conservatory training program, but but it was a significant program. How did you convince them if your scheme was to go to USC and eventually get into theater, how did you convince them to for you to even go to USC that? Well? I got into two colleges, n y U and USC, and I I they were sort of like, you know, I was the last one, and they were sort of sick and tired of dealing with kids, and they were

just like, okay, we'll do whatever you want. And I was general you know, uh general major when I first went there, Liberal arts or whatever. Yeah, yeah, liberal arts, and um I did a play and I fell in love with studying theater. I was just like, oh god, I gotta do this. And I quietly switched my major. And uh, my dad found out and hit the roof and just like we got in the biggest argument. But to his credit, I also had professors right to him and say, hey, Tate has a chance of making it

in this business. He should he should study. And I always thought my dad ignored all of those letters, and but One of the more moving things was when my dad passed away and I went through his um his desk, I found this letter from one of my professors, John Blanket Ship at USC, and I just dissolved, you know, like obviously he he he listened to those letters and he ended up paying my tuition, which you know was a fraction of what it is now. But yeah, yeah,

I mean, so he did it. And you know, fortunately I got work while I was going to college. I was lucky enough to get some jobs, and so he was like, well, maybe he'll make a living and yeah, where did you go to school? I went to s m U Southern Methodist University in Dallas. In Dallas, so at the time, it was a conservatory training program and that was sort of for me. That was what I

was I was looking for. And you know, they had and I don't know if USC was going through some renovations at the time, but I've told this story before, never specifically to USC graduate. But I was from Atlanta, and so I I flew, we flew, me and my dad we flew to California and went to USC and went to the theater department office. I'm putting that in quote because it was a trailer. It was it was in a trailer, a trailer. It wasn't temporary. It was

still there. It wasn't temporary. Hit hoole, right. So I went there and I met them, and I was like, all right, this is Los Angeles. And actually while we were there on that trip, I went to I still remember going with my dad to the old Grammins Chinese Well. We went to hard Rock Cafe, of course because we were from Atlanta, and we thought that's what you did. And then we went to Gramma's Chinese Theater and I

saw Goodfellas. I don't know if that was when it was out or if it was a special showing shortly after. I would have to look at the day, but I know that's what I saw, a Gramins Chinese theater, and I thought it was so cool. And then I flew from Los Angeles to Dallas and walked into the theater department at s m U, which was about a thirty million dollar building with three fully functional thrust stage, a precenium stage, black box that was fully and I was like, well,

let me see. I could go to a trailer are or I could stay here. And that was that was for me, a quick decision, and it was a little closer to Atlanta, which I think probably made my folks happy. But but but I was curious about this, knowing I was talking to you and you going to USC So you you did start auditioning, sort of getting into the business while you were in school, right, Yeah, yeah, I lucked out. There was a girl in the class ahead of me who was doing an internship at a tiny

talent agency called Contemporary Coreman Artists. And they said, they're They're like, are there any kids that in your school that are you know, you think you can work? And she was. She picked about four or five and we all went to their crappy little offices and uh in Beverly Hills, and they signed me. And the other intern was a guy named David di Camillo and he, uh, he was just out of college and I was still

in college. And he is still my agent. Four wow, some odd years later, I'm at gersh But I'm trying to think, this is nine eighty three or four, So what has it It's been forty years. Forty years, Yeah, forty years I've had the same agent. Can you imagine that is amazing? I know, it's incredible. I mean, I have a similar story. I have the same manager that I have when I moved to Los Angeles, not not quite that long. I think I've been through seventeen agents,

just to be clear. Agents. I think probably had actually I never went to. But yes, I um, that's that's awesome. I love to hear that. But you were at school and you had some people I don't know if if they were accepted this agency, George Clooney, Grant Heslov who now have become longtime friends. Were you classes together? Were you in the actual the same class? Well, George wasn't.

George wasn't at SC, but Grant, Grant and I were best friends in going to s C, and Grant one summer did a play with George and then they became with great friends. And then sort of like George and I became friends through Grant. Yeah, so I'm still great friends with Grant. I don't I don't really see George too much, but you know, we ever get a basketball game together, I'd love to be there. Yeah, it's crazy. Who else who else was in my class? Uh? Forest

Whittaker was a two years older than us. Eric Stoltz was a year older than us. Anthony Edwards was a year older than us. Oh Ali Shedy, do you remember her, she was a couple of years older than us. Yeah, yeah, there's some. There was some great, great it was. It was a great time to go there because there were so many jobs for young kids. You know, they were making tons of coming of age movies and television shows, and so I really I was very, very, very very

lucky to go there at that time for sure. What was the first role you booked outside of school? Well, I got a I got a spear carrier at the Lahoya Playhouse for for As You Like It. But while I was carrying the spear for that production, I auditioned for a movie called No Small Affair with John Cryer and Danny Moore, and I had one line. I didn't have a sad card, but one line, why don't you

take her to the bathroom? It was in reference it was a bachelor party, and um it was a prostitute or a stripper had come in and we were I was encouraging him to take the stripper. Is this fantastic movie? Very high class? I went from Shakespeare to why don't you take her to the bathroom? Oh? My God, So that was my very first SAG job. Yes, well you you booked No Small Affair. Also Kevin Donaldson in Space Camp, Luke Sinclair in Memphis Bell. Yes, do you remember that?

I just reminded you of something? By the way, I can't remember. I can't remember either. At some point someone told me they saw me in something and I was convinced I'd never done it. Um, how are how are you balancing school? And obviously I assume working on on your craft and theater right and beginning to book some of these roles in in in Hollywood in quotes, it was, Um, it was a great time because I've never been so busy in my life, so it's sort of trained me

to like multitask. And I was for a couple of months there. I was just like or two years. Basically, I was just killing myself either trying to get a job and then doing my work. And you know, SC is great because a lot of theater schools don't let you work while you're going to them, and like Juilliard and Jail or whatever, you know, but SC is very encouraging of work, which sometimes they gave me credit for it,

which was awesome. They'd give me like production credit instead of you know, sewing buttons on costumes for you know, like they would give me. You know, I showed a lot of television movie. Yeah yeah, I know, right, yeah, yeah, I know. It's so funny. Running Crew was like you know, doing lights for plays and stuff like that. Right. Did you do multiple productions a year though at SC as an actor. Yeah? That was another good thing about SC

is that they was it was it was. It was just like constantly putting up a play somewhere, you know, like a whether it's experimental play or a classic or Elizabethan you know, like plays that you never hear of or never produced, but you know, we're just doing them and everyone is. You know. It wasn't like when I was in college. I got the I think I got

one lead the entire four years in college. You know, it's just like you're just sort of doing everything you can and you're playing an eighty nine year old or you're playing you know, an infanter, you know what I mean. It's just sort of like crazy, just working hard every weekend out late, breaking down sets, and you know, it's fantastic. It was really kind of kind of a group. I'm so happy I had that experience, you know, just sort

of push yourself as far as you could. And yeah, it's funny how you look back and a lot of those people aren't working in the business or but you would never know, like you never know who's gonna make it, or who's gonna who's going to be an actor, who's gonna end up winning an Academy Award for you know, producing. Uh, you know, it's crazy, it's crazy. It's a lot of fun. Yeah,

it just occurred to me. I think for myself it was always about theater for me initially, like that's really what and it sounds like for you it was really about about the experience of being an actor. And like you talked about having sort of this epiphany even at age four watching the screen, being like that's what I want to do. It's it's I don't know. It's just

kind of striking me right now. And the fact that you started to have experiences in film and television, you know, even while you were in school that you know, in a large way becomes part of your training to right

and how important, how important that is. I've talked to a lot of people on the podcast about about just that like experience in front of a camera on a set, how important that is, right, Yeah, I mean it's just a there's no replacement, there's no class, there's no teacher, there's nothing that can prepare you for the you know, waiting around for hours and hours and hours and then getting to go right before lunch and you've got your two lines that you've you know, this pressure and everybody

wants to go to lunch and they're just fucking miserable. They don't know who you are, and you're looking to the director for some help and he doesn't give a ship about about you and your motivations and actors coming from and yeah, yeah, I know, it's just so funny. It's it's yeah, just the attitude of the crew, which is like, hey, man, I'm doing my job, you do yours, Let's get out of here. You know, you're sort of

fun a response. And you know when you come from theater school, I'm sure you had this experience where so intense emotionally and get really close to everybody and the director is really there to help you and discuss all the ramifications and we need to do a fucking television job. It's like nobody gives a ship. You're just like, collect the paycheck, Pal, and let's get out of here. Yeah, no, I hear you. It's it's a It is a crazy thing.

It's like that right before lunch or that like end of the day, the end of the day, and you know they're already on a triple overtime. You're at our fifteen and now you're expected to deliver and you've been sitting around for fifteen hours not doing it, thinking about your line, and suddenly they're like, stand here, here's the camera there and go and you're like, what's my line again?

Where where am i? Yea? Or how about how about when um there's the whole process of like shooting the mass stir and then shooting the wide and then coming around on the all the other actors, and then finally five hours later the cameras on you and you have no idea now what the scene what You're just like a robot and you're not feeling anything, and you're just like, oh, it's so. You know. What's interesting to me is that, Okay, I've been doing it for forty years, right, and I

still no matter. I just thought by after forty years I would be more confident or more like relaxed, and I know the deal, but there's always something. I'm sure you find this too, Like, isn't there always something that trips you up and that you're like, oh ship, I didn't expect that. Oh Christ, I don't know what I'm doing? Who am I? What am I saying? What? You know? Like? I mean, it's amazing to me how you never get it? You know what I mean? You never at least I

don't know. But Tate, I have, I have talked about this, and I I apologize. I everybody as listening has heard me say this, but you know, it's kind of like I'm saying it in a slightly different way. It says though, if you're a if you're a I don't know, a stockbroker or an accountant or a lawyer or something, and imagine every week going to a different office to do your job, like you know how to crunch these numbers.

But as I have said, when you show up as a guest star on a show, you literally don't know where the bathroom is and you're confronted by a hundred and twenty people who all know each other, and you don't know anyone's name, and everyone's introducing themselves a mile a minute, and you're like, I don't know, where's the sound guy again? And then if I can find him for my mike, what's his name? I forgot and it's

it's it's Yeah. It's all set up for failure in that way, like there's a again every if it's a Friday, everybody has been working for sixty hours Monday through Thursday, and now you show up. No one's thinking like, oh, let's let's give the new guy a break right there, Like no, we're a well oiled machine. You get you get in there and grind away and let's keep going. Now. It's very right. It actually gives me makes me feel

good that you still feel it after four years. Yeah, yeah, And you know, isn't it interesting, Like like I imagine when you worked on the office, Now that is like one of the great jobs of all time, right, I mean, you're working with people who are at the top level. The writing everything from from a viewer's point of view is like the best television can be. And you know, like I imagine for you because it's happened to me a couple of times when I've been involved with amazing people.

You're sort of so used to just like getting through and surviving and just like you know, dealing with kind of crappy material that all of a sudden you're like, oh wow, I can take my time. Oh wow, like they do want me to put my two cents in or like what I say matters, or I'm dealing with really complicated material and and it's got you know, and there's real humor here, Like I don't know, it's like then you have to make the lead to greatness, you know,

Like it's interesting. I don't know, I'm be curious that what your experience was getting that job and and then working with such great, amazing people. Yeah, I mean I think, Look, I think that the hugely unique thing that that of course, it's very obvious when you think about it, is you know, you've been in shows with varying degrees of being the

lead or not the lead. And you know, typically on television shows, you have the number one on the call sheet who's there for twelve to fourteen hours a day, and everybody else comes in a day or two and you do your scenes and and you move on. You know, for us, we were all there all the time, so that was a wholly unique situation where because the cameras moving around, because we are all essentially you know, a part of every single scene, whether it's a look or

you know anything, we were all there. So that time, that consistent time of us all being together brought something totally different. And I think that while we did, you know, the joke was I don't know if this was totally true by the end. You know, usually it takes an hour for a lighting set up and then you you shoot the scene in fifteen minutes. Right on our show, typically it was the reverse, and and that that you're very astute to point that out. I mean, you know,

the lighting was not a big deal. Let's just roll the cameras and and and play, which I think give you know, gave up. We were the ones who were there a lot of confidence. But you know, I talked to Amy Ryan on the podcast. You know, Oscar Nominee could not be a more fantastic actress who talked about walking into that room for the first time to be on the show and feeling incredibly uncomfortable and nervous because

of that time we were all there. Everybody, everybody's ass had warned up you know, a dent, accustomed dent in the seats right like there was there was, there was nothing fake. We had all just sort of been there and so yeah, I think I think that made it different for for people in another way. But yeah, the freedom to play, and particularly the freedom to play with great material, you know, was it was Yeah, that was

a gift for sure. Yeah, to be on a great team. Yeah, your first leading role came alongside Sandra Bullock in Love Potion Number nine. How did that come about? It was that a continuation of momentum or was that, you know, an audition situation that that just became that just went really well. That was just an audition that went really well. Yeah. I was in New York and uh, I just took the train into. I was out in Long Island and I took the train in and and it was really funny.

I did the audition and I left and I was walking down I don't know if it was like twenty three Street or something like that, and I had just read that people who hear their name in every sound it's a sign of narcissism, you know, like a serious narcissism. You're like, you think everyone's talking to you or whatever, or like a car horn and you hear your name. So I kept hearing my name, but I kept what

I was like, don't be a narcissist. State come on, she used to keep going and nobody's calling you, And sure enough it was the director leaning down, like six flights down going day. Finally looked up and he's like, come on, come back up. So I went back up and I redid the scene, and uh it was hilarious. Yeah, Dale, donor, iill never forget, like, you know, thinking that, you know, like I'm a narcissist that in fact, it was the one time that I wasn't a narcissist. It was true.

What was that like? Having that first experiences as being a leading man on film? It was great. I mean, you know I like to work, right, I mean, you and I both like to work, So being asked to come to work every day it's fantastic, you know. I mean, you just get these great relationships. And you know, Sandy is like one of the great human beings to work with. I mean, she is so generous and so she's so

concerned about the extra is about craft service. She's so concerned about everyone else on the set, and I haven't worked with her since, but I hear she's still the same way that you know, she's you know, she fights for you know, if if she sees somebody being mistreated on the set, she stops everything, and you know, uh, and that that's the way she was in nineteen eighty nine. I think we shot that yeah, so but yeah, yeah,

it was. I mean, you know, none of us knew, you know, that she was going to be such a huge star. I mean she was great, and she was gorgeous. She's so beautiful, and she acted like a woman who never was told that she was beautiful her whole you know what I mean. She she has this sort of very humble way of like she doesn't act like a gorgeous woman at all. She acts like a kind of the ugly duckling best friend kind of you know role. But I think that's why, you know, she's so appealing

as an actress. Yeah, no, she's fantastic. And my co worker Oscar Nuoni has has had the opportunity to work with her a couple of times and says equally nice, uh and generous things about her. I do want to go in a in a slightly different direction briefly, because I have from the beginning of time, I never would have thought this. From the beginning of moving to Los Angeles, you're sort of told it's really, really difficult to be

an actor and to get roles. It's twenty five times more difficult to be a voice actor in Hollywood because you're not seeing and there's no exclusivity and casting voice casting directors and directors of voice work. They want to work with the same people who they know they can get in in an hour and get their job done. You began voicing quite a long time ago, now, Greek

demigod Hercules. You did the Disney film, you did the animated You've done you know, my friend Cary Peyton, I talked to him about his He's been doing teen Titans in one way or another for I think over twenty years now. How did how did you get into that? And and and do you do you enjoy that work of creating a character through just your voice? Uh? Yeah, I mean, gosh, who doesn't. But um And that's where the my theater training really came in Handy was just

relying on your voice. But you know, I got Hercules just the old fashioned way. I'll never forget walking into that because Aladdin had just been a huge hit, and so suddenly everybody kind of thought, you know, voice acting was like no, no stars did voice acting, and they didn't do animation. They just let other actors do that. But Robin Williams was the first guy to be like, I'm star, I'm gonna do this amazing job. And it like everybody in the world like suddenly wanted to to

do a voice actor for Disney. And I remember walking into that audition and just being so bummed out because in the waiting room was Key for Sutherland, Rob Low, all these huge stars at the time, and I I, you know, I hadn't I hadn't actually worked in the year before I got Hercules, I earned fifteen thousand dollars. Uh. For the whole year, I I could not get a job, and I was just like, God, damn, I'm never gonna get this, I mean, you know whatever. So I go

into this room. It's really funny, and Ron and John are there, they're the two directors, and they're like, Okay, thank you very much, and you know, you've got this microphone in front of you, and they're sitting on a couch and it's sort of like a regular audition except for the microphone. And then they're like, anytime you're ready, just go ahead. And then they just bowed down their heads and closed their eyes as if, you know, they

were praying or something like that. Like you know, I was like, what, I had no idea, Like they didn't they didn't need to look at me at all, Like it's funny. But so I was just like taking it back, and I thought they were gonna like lead in prayer something like that, you know, like it was like Disney

maybe it's a really Christian organization, you know. So I waited and they sort of like we're you know, had their heads down and eyes closed, and then they sort of looked up and they're like anytime you're ready, and I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Yeah, so

that's how it started. And yeah, I mean that was just a gift, that job that was just so much fun and working with people who had you know, when you worked with Disney Animation, you were working with animators that had been doing their job for like thirty years, you know, like when we're working on television shows, you know, the guys just became a prop guy, you know, like six months ago on his first show. This is is

you know what I mean. Everyone's very you know, they're young and they're just getting into things, and but these guys were like masters, and they had been doing it for deck aids and uh, it was really um it was an honor for sure. I knew then. I was like, wow, this is really special, man, you know, this is this is really cool. Did you know when you left the room. Did you know when you left the room that you had that you No, no, no, they just lifted their

heads and said thank you. Oh yeah yeah, They're like thank you, Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean I don't know. I very rarely know, do you do You have you had that experience a lot where you're like, I got this yeah, yeah, no, And I'm being I'm being I'm saying it. I'm saying it now. I have been I have been wrong as well. But no, I know, I know. Yeah, maybe part of it is, and certainly you do comedy. We'll talk about that in a second. But I think I've been so heavily, heavily in the

in the in the comedy world. I think that there's more there's more sort of in the room feedback. Yeah, but the laughter, yeah, the left yeah, and you can you can just I don't know. I just I feel like I can kind of feel it. I mean, it doesn't always go my way, but when I leave, I I oftentimes know, yeah, they're not interested in me, or yeah I think I'm in the mix, or or this is yeah, this is this is definitely know when they're

not interested. That is, you do it one time and they're like, thank you for coming in in a bland voice and you're like, yeah, you know what I get, I get a lot is um, you're a very good actor. Then I'm like, ah, I'm screwed, you know, because like if they're if they're complimenting you as an actor, they're just trying to make you feel better that you've definitely not gotten this role. Right. Let me ask you this. I haven't talked to anybody about this before, but I mean,

you've done such a diverse range of projects. When you are given a script and you're not offered it, you you you need to go in an audition and you know, for one reason or another that you are not going to to get it, not because not because you aren't right for it. But does that happen, like I don't even know exactly. Do you go in or do you just say no, Yes, I go in because my agent, David d says, don't turn down offers, don't turn down auditions,

and I fought against that for years. But I go in anyway, because once I started directing, I realized you should always go in because actors don't know necessarily what they bring to something. And even though on the page it's like totally not you. The director maybe looking for something that isn't on the page, you know, he's like, you know, yeah, I want to go to the opposite way. So so always go in, Always put it, you know,

going for the audition. At least I do, even though it's difficult to audition and a lot of work and you know you're going to get a lot of rejection, and you know, yeah, that's interesting. I think that's great advice because you never know, you never know, you know, you never know. Around this time you start doing some guest star roles, we talked about how difficult it is on on a few very very high profile shows, first Ally McBeal with Calista Flockhart and then of course on Friends,

you appear in several episodes of season four. You're at this point, Friends is a gigantic hit. I mean, this is this is the biggest show on television, and you have that opportunity to talk to me a little bit about your process of of going in and being cast on on Friends. Well, Friends was interesting because I I had done a sitcom with two writers that had left Friends and with John Cryer called Partners, which was a lot of fun, but it got canned after one year.

But while while I was doing it, the writers were like, do you know Jennifer Aniston? And I'm like, yeah, she's on Friends. You know, yeah, yeah, I know her, Rachel, And they're like, you should you she's single and you're single. You guys should meet. So we went out on a date and we hit it off and we ended up dating for I don't know, gosh two or three years, and um, you know. So I would go to the Friends set all the time. Uh, you know, I was there every taping and that was so much fun to

watch watch those guys go. I mean, they were like, they were such an amazing team, and to be behind the scenes and see them work, Uh, was just so much fun. And I knew some of the directors, and I knew the a d and it was just like a family. It was so much fun. Every Friday we'd go up there and I'd go and watch the taping and it was a blast. So Jen and I are are breaking up, and literally like two days after, nobody

knew that we were breaking up. Two days after the breaking up to it's a process to break to break up, you're going through. Well, we were living together, we were living together, and I decided I was gonna move out, So I moved out and I found a new place, and you know, it was it was heartbreaking and awful and miserable, but no one knew. They all thought we were still living together and still dating, and but it

was sort of kept it close to the vest. And um, the producers called me and they're like, you know, we would love to have you on the show for like a five episode arc. And I was like, oh god, this is And then I thought, mistakenly, I thought, well, maybe this will if we work together, maybe it'll sort of ease the breakup, Like we'll still to get to see each other and we'll, you know, maybe this would be a good thing. To to work together, and I

was I was totally wrong. It was cool, It was very it was very It was very difficult to uh to work and be like, you know, in a comedic scene with somebody who you're breaking up with. This you know, it's pretty tough. But you know, at the end of it, I realized, hey, I'm I'm a pro. You know. Once again, my therapist really helped me get through that, and he's like, dude, you're a pro if you can, if you can still do your job with a woman who's you know, your

heart is breaking. So that's good that I was. I did not specifically know the ins and outs of the or the timing of that situation. That sounds really difficult. That sounds really but yeah, it's funny. Most people are like, um, I think that we met there, like if they know that we're dated for a period of time, they think that we met there, but in fact we we sort

of ended it there. Wow. Well, well that it must have been easier for you, you you know, in a sense working on this mega hit showed they you were sort of familiar at least that part would be very difficult, but you were sort of familiar with the surroundings and knew everybody else sort of involved. I'm sure Jimmy Burrows and and you know everyone else. Yeah. Yeah, And the cast was so sweet to me. They were they were so great because they kind of knew they found out

and they were awesome to me. I mean those guys, every single one of them were incredibly supportive. Yeah for sure. I Uh, I first became really familiar with you. I don't think we met at this time, but I had a young friend who had who had started the business, Chris Carmack, who was on The o C. And you play what you have described as TV's worst dad ever. Uh, Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy Cooper on the o C. Give me three words to describe Jimmy Cooper. Let's see, Uh, mildly corrupt.

I guess that's two, but okay, that's fine. That counts is one negligent father and affable, like he's like one of these kind of crazy characters who's like super nice guy, great guy, but just was a negligent father and kind of you know, didn't mind bilking his customers and being sort of like a horribly corrupt financially because he was a nice guy. He was like, you know, yeah, it's it's a very interesting character to play, you know, it's it's funny. And and the producers had no idea that

he was a terrible father. That was the interesting thing. That's when I heard Stephanie Savage. They didn't. Yeah, yeah, they didn't. And and years years later, there was an article in like People magazine or US Weekly or something like that, and it said the five worst fathers on televisi and I was one of them. I was like number two. And I find I sent it to them and I'm like, do you guys see what you're what I've been saying? And really, I think Jimmy's great. That's

crazy because he's affable. I guess that's why. Yeah, yeah, because he's nice. He's a funny guy. He's a good guy. He's not a bad dad. I guess they didn't. They didn't have kids at the time, so they didn't realize that being holy negligent and saying to your daughter, I've got to go to Hawaii to be a better father. It's one of the most ridiculous lines in television history. Uh. I think about that often now. I don't think I've ever said anything like this on the show. But I do.

I do have a running joke about shows where there are adult characters with children. That's sometimes for four or five episodes at the time, the children mysteriously disappear. They don't, you're not, you're not. We're not focused on the children. And so I guess they thinking is we just forgot they had them for a little while. But if you have kids, you know, it's an omnipresent part. Whether you're negligent or not, they're still in your on your mind

or you got to pick them up from softball or something. Right, it's like twenty four hour thing. Like if you have a kid, it's just like forget. Your whole life's changed everything, like no matter what, And uh, you're right. I know. It's funny how these characters on television could just be like they just appear. And I figured they just appear every once in a while, the kids because they're under eighteen and they can't take ours, you know or not. The kids I know, and the tutors and the stuff.

So how is this for you? You know, you you talked earlier about it being a good time for you when you started at USC because they were looking at a lot of coming of age stories and young actors. So now suddenly you're a dad, and by the way, you're a very young father to the age of these children. Let's be clear about that at this time. But how is that, how is that shift for you, um to

now become become the grown up? Well, I mean, now I've been a grown up for a long time, I know, you know, I mean beginning to get those roles as like now you're the Now you're the dad, You're no longer the young Now now I'm the grandfather. Well so you know, I'm like, I'm my grandfather now. Yeah, I mean it's uh, you know, I had a kid very late in life. I sort of wish I could go back to some of those early father roles and sort

of like change the moment. I didn't have kids when I was doing doing the o C. But my sister had three kids and she'd call me up every week and just say, what are you doing? You're the worst dad. I'm like, you know, you got to talk to those people. Uh yeah, yeah, I mean I think I would like to. I'd like to revisit some of those roles for sure, because you know, as you know, it's sort of like everything changes when you're when you have kids. It's uh, yeah,

that's great. The o C. It's where you started directing. What was this? Was this something you always knew that you wanted to do or or did the opportunity just present itself once you were on that show? Because I and by the way, so full disclosure, I started directing on the Office as well. That was my directoral debut.

So I understand once you're in and you get to know producers and they sort of see you have an eye for something, It's it's much easier than to just, you know, go to the network and try to get them to hire you want to show You're not on. But was that something you always wanted to do or did the opportunity present itself and you thought it might be fun? Yeah? No, I was. I was always the kind of actor that hung out by the monitors and got to know directors and the crew, and you know,

I don't I don't hang out at my trailer. I'm not I'm not a I don't really have much of an other life when I'm at work. I'm just sort of there and you know, like hanging out of craft service, you know, like chatting people up. Um, so I was very interested in and the part, you know, Jimmy Cooper was kind of a small part, and I didn't really work enough for for for my taste, you know, one or two days a week, and I was like, God, this is boring. I want to do something. So I

started shadowing and I was shocked. You know, it's so much fun. I mean, I was so excited. I was there for first rehearsal, all the the all the location scouts and the casting meetings and the tone meeting. I don't remember the tone meeting like your first tone meeting. I mean, that is the most exciting meeting I've ever

been to. I mean, for for those of you who don't know what a tone meeting is, it's when the producer and writer of the episode sits down with the director and goes seen by scene like, Hey, this is what we're doing with this character, this is what we need here. Uh, this character is heading in this direction, that character is heading in the other direction. And you get the inside scoop and they're like, okay, so this actor, he's a real pain in the ass and he's not

going to know his line. So you have to do this or whatever. You know, you get, you get your and you're shocked. It's sort of like listening to your parents talk about your siblings, you know, listening to the door of their bedroom. You know, you're just like, I can't believe they know that. You know, Jimmy smokes pot. You know, we know he smokes pot. You know, it's like, oh, Ship.

So I just was fully enamored. And I'll always love of the people of the OC for giving me a shot at directing, because it was so exciting and it made me sort of fall in love with acting all over again. I don't know if you had that experience. Did you have that experience where you know, you're sort of like acting schmack ing and then you direct and you're like, oh my god, actors they're so important. I mean, you have a great actor, you can just take it easy.

As a director, you're just like I just put the camera on or from you know, and when you don't have a good actor, you're like, oh, Ship, what are we gonna do here? You know, you gotta like a massage it with the camera, and you know, I don't know, I just fell in love with acting again. How what was your experience. Yeah, I mean again, I think I

mean you're one. You're so right about the tone meeting, and you become aware of what everyone is aware of that maybe you think you're the only one that sees it it or that it's you know, something that's not spoken. You know, for us on the office specifically, you know there was because, as I discussed earlier, we were all there all the time, and because I like you, it appears enjoy the process. It's not like I went and hid in my trailer like I was watching if I

wasn't on set for a brief period of time. And so there was there were no real surprises in that regard. There were some there were some tips to achieve maybe certain things that that we would need to get for that specific episode. You know, we had the DP and one other camera person who had been there forever, and that felt like I was going to be heavily covered.

I think for me, the thing on the Office that was the most fun and required the most time was every single scene there was a discussion about how to what degree the camera was present or not, and the awareness of the camera for all of the characters there, and that I loved. I mean being a part of those conversations, and specifically that episode that that I directed.

There was there was a potential of flirtation with Jim with another character and to what degree do we pass the line of people getting mad at us because of Jim and Pam and anyway that kind of stuff was was was really fun for me and and being able to, yeah, to work with other actors. I mean, I had done quite a bit of directing but in theater before that. But I loved it. And it sounds like you as you said, you really did. You went on to direct, I mean a ton of shows, a few Niptuck, Weeds,

Gossip Girl, Glee. Do you you said it made you fall in love with acting again? Do you do you now prefer acting or or directing? Well? I kind of love them both, you know, I mean, directing is uh. I mean, you know, I just hope and pray I get to do both for the rest of my days. But you know, directing is so much more work, but you get to use so much more of your brain. I mean, to go in an editing room, I mean that is so exciting and fun and just being on set and I don't know, I mean, I just I

just love it. And but also acting is great. I mean you're generally paid better, and um, you have such an easier life. I mean really all you have to do is memorize your lines and uh, you know, have a couple of ideas about what you want to do, and it's definitely an easier life. You know, you're there for a couple of hours and you take off, and everybody treats you so nicely when you're an actor. Have

you noticed that? But then you know, like when you're a guest director, like they care less about you, just like you're on your own. Man. It's hilarious, It's really funny. I loved Damages. I was a huge fan of Damages. Obviously, Glenn Close, someone who I had worked with very peripherally many years before, who I think is just a genius. Jakavonik. Oh, yeah, I just I loved him so much. And I understand

you're working on that. You directed some episodes there. You learned a lot about directing from Glenn Close, I understand. Tell me a little bit about that. Well, yeah, that's a classic classic story. Well, basically, I was directing my first episode and there were a couple of days where

Glenn wasn't on the set. So the first three days or first two days were without Glenn and things were going well, but everyone was sort of like, you know, Glenn does not She's brilliant and she's the smartest person on the set, including the directors and producers. She's just like has a nose in an instinct that is just powerful and she really tracks everything. Um So, everyone was like, how it's gonna be with Glenn when Glenn gets on

the set, Let's see how you do. You know, you're doing fine now, but trust me, when number one gets on the set. Um So, I was you know, it was my first episode, so you know, when you're when you're just starting out, you've got so many ideas you've been thinking about it. So Junior so ampt, you know.

And and so we sit down for rehearsal and it's in this nail salon kind of scene with with Rose, and I am just so excited and I'm like, so we're gonna put the camera here, and so you're gonna be sitting there and Rose is gonna be there, and and we're gonna put the camera here and then we're gonna move it and then down, and she goes shut up, shut up, shut up, in front of the whole set, and she just lays into me, and I am like completely humiliated and like shut down, and I slink back

to my director's chair in front of the monitors and and I'm like action, you know, I'm totally petrified I've ruined everything. And then she proceeds to give me a performance that is nothing I even thought of. And I didn't need to explain anything to her or move the camera or do anything. I just need to turn the camera on and off. And like, she gave me more than I could have possibly imagined. And so we we finished out the day, and you know, my feelings were hurt,

but you know, I suck it up. And she came to me a couple of days later and she's like, listen, I'm sorry I yelled at you in front of everybody. But I just feel like when actors direct, they talk too much, and you have to trust your actors. You know, they don't trust they're actors as much, and and that is such an important lesson to learn, especially if you're an actor. I mean, I don't know if you found that, but because you want to do it, for them, you know what I mean, and you have to let them

do it. And uh, it's it's a you know, you know how you would do the line, but you have to let them. Only they can say the line. And what they're gonna bring is going to be so much better than what you're imagining in your in your you know, on your desk four days ago, know what I mean? That's right, well, it is and it has to be

to be truly great. A collaborative process, I mean that that's what that's what elevates it, right, I mean, you have geniuses who are visionaries and do things completely their own unique way, right, So like the Cohen Brothers or something right where where they are creating a world and a way of talking that exists wholly and uniquely to them. However, they still use the actors to collaborate with them by creating characters that have to be richer than what they

had envisioned, even them. And I think that that's what's so important, that that that collaboration happens, and that directors allow that collaboration to happen, because if all the actors are doing, are is just fulfilling a vision that's already pre pre pre created. I literally just made that up.

God dang, I'm pre created, precreated. Then what are we? Yeah, then then you might you literally might as well hire a monkey like you know, like that, you know, but if you're going to allow the actor there to bring their own unique set of skills, I think that's really smart. Though I'm sorry you got humiliated. That sounds I don't know her, that sounds terrifying. Yeah, but she's you know,

she's great. I mean, listen, she turned around and and got me my first She went to John Landgraf, who's the head of f X, and just said, hey, take Donovan is uh you know a great director. You should hire him. And he went on to, you know, hire me for the first jobs that I got outside of shows that I was acting in. So I owe a lot to her, for sure. But you know, when you're talking about the collaboration and the pre creation and that directors have, I um, that's why you know a lot

of people are like, aren't you scared that? You know, people are just gonna be able to sample actors and be able to like a, I will be able to

make a film that's better than any director. And uh, you know, I always think that I'm not really worried about that because because it's got to take a bunch of different you know, like a a director and an actor, sort of scuffling over a scene is sort of the best thing possible, you know what I mean, Like when you get to oppose, like I don't see the scene that way, I see it this way, and and the way they come together and the way it ends up shooting,

the compromise that has made is always the best thing. And uh yeah, I think it's it's going to be around a long time. Actors and directors and prop guys or whatever, you know, all of us sort of coming

together and trying to figure this out. Yeah, I uh, I can't let you go before we talk about three of the largest, most well important, at least from an outsider's perspective, credits that you've been involved with three Academy Award nominated films for Best Picture, Goodnight and Good Luck, Manchester by the Sea, and of course Argo that that ends up winning. Let's talk about Argo a little bit. To start, Bob Anders you played, How did you get involved with Argo? Well, that was going back to sc

Grant Heslov. You know Grant totally found that story and champion that whole movie from you know, step one. He was like, that would make a great movie. He found a great writer. George was originally gonna star and direct in it, and that changed so it looked like it was dead in the water. And then he found Ben and he just um the whole time. He was like, I gotta role for you. I gotta role for you, I gotta roll for you. So it was very sweet

and and Ben was not into it. He didn't want me for the role, but but Grant really fought for me. And uh, I always always be grateful for for that experience because that was working on Argo was like crazy, great, great experience. Um, I don't even know where to start. One thing that Ben did was he stuck all the house guests, you know, the hostages, in the house that we shot in, and we had to live there with no contact, no email, no phone, nothing, no television, no

radio for seven full days. And I was like, oh, come on, man, I'm too old for this, like method bullshit, you know, like, let me do my own thing. I don't want to live with these guys. I don't know. You know, a bunch of young actors who were going to be in character seven. You know, I was just like jeez, So I was dragged into that house and you had to drag me and everybody else out of it because it was we We had the most amazing time.

It was an incredible experience that just spend a week in that world and we weren't allowed to leave the house. It was we just bonded so much. We just we just loved each other and had the best times and drank and it sort of did a lot of what the hostages did, but they did a lot of partying.

I know that we shot a bunch of scenes where the hostages were partying and playing cards and getting drunk, uh and celebrating, but they had to cut them all out because, um, it made us look like a bunch of assholes, because like here's the CIA and the whole government in Canada and the whole world is trying to get them out and we're just like partying and having a great time. Um. But you know, working with Ben it was really interesting. He was the star of it, right,

so he sort of directed us by his acting. We do a scene with him and he was just business and there was no there was no flurry. There were no curly cues, There was no showmanship in his performance. He was just giving us the facts and the lines, and so we took that in and just gave him our lines back, you know. And he did a lot of non verbal directing, which I really I really admired.

I really um looking back on it and and seeing the film that he made, so impressed by how little he sort of directed us, and yet how how much he directed us just subconsciously at any rate. Uh yeah, it was amazing experience. We went to Turkey, we shot in Turkey, and that was an amazing go to Istanbul was just a incredible town, an incredible city. So that, yeah, I mean, and then it won the Academy Award. We couldn't believe it. We could not believe it. You weren't.

You weren't fell Obama gave it to us. No, not at all, no way. Lincoln was like, you know, Argo didn't get great reviews. It was like, yeah, that's a good movie, you know, patting itself on the back, Hollywood patting itself on the back. But you know, everyone was in love with Lincoln. It was just like, uh yeah, Lincoln was just like everyone's gonna win everything. And yeah

it was argo. Yeah crazy, that's so, that's so great and and and and to have my my best my best friend, I mean for I mean, I can't tell you we were roommates for years and years and years. To have him win an Academy award, to see him up there, I can't tell you how in credible a sensation. It is, like, I know what that guy has gone through, and he came from nothing, from nowhere. It's just hard work and smarts and just two And he's such a good guy. Grant has love. He's such a kind and

considerate guy. You know, like we all think, oh, Hollywood's filled with, you know, the worst people in the world, and that's what you have to be to succeed. And like Grant Heslov is the the example that that is so not true. You can be an amazing guy, uh, super kind, super generous and be on top of the hill. Oh it was awesome. I love that. Uh. You recently wrap production on a new series set in Hawaii, You lucky dog. You I know it was fun. Tell us a little bit about that. Oh, it's a it's a

crazy fun little Um. I'm so curious how it's going to come out because it's it's it's all over the place in terms of the script. I mean, it was a lot of fun to make. You know, you can't you can't turn down a gig in Hawaii, you know what I mean. So it should be fun. But but I also finished, um, I think it's gonna be equally as good as Manchester by the Sea or some of the other movies that Alexander Paine's new movies starring m Paul Giamatti. I just have a tiny role in it.

I only I only work, I only really have one scene. But oh my god, Paul Giamatti. It's called The Holdovers, and Paul Giamatti in this script, he is he is so good. I've been acting for forty years and I've never did done what I did with Paul Giamatti. I'm in the scene with him and he's he has a sort of long speech, and I have the line after long speech, and I just got so caught up as an audience. Remember watching Paul Giamatti, I was just like

captured by his performance that I completely forgotten. I'm I've forgotten my lines before, but I was I wasn't even in the room. I was just like, I was just like a fan, just thinking, God, Paul Giamatti is the greatest actor. And they were like cut They're like, I'm like, oh God, sorry, guys, sorry, I know, I don't know. I was just like so captured by his performance that I completely forgot that I had to say something to it. I can't wait to see that. It makes me very

excited to see that I was nder pain man. He is I would I would have done craft service for Alexander Pain. I mean he is. He is an amazing director. I don't know if you you're familiar, but you know he did. Uh of course. Yeah, he's so good. Tate, thank you so much for coming to talk to me today. I have long admired your work. The scope, the scale, the diversity. Uh is so impressive. I appreciate you coming to talk to me. And yeah, at some point we'll we'll go get we'll go get a beer or a coffee.

That would be awesome. I would love to That would be so great. And thanks for having me on man. I really I'm a huge fan of yours too. I just you're just fantastic, and uh, yeah, I look for it would be great. If we get a beer after after working together, that's right, Let's do that would be the ultimate. Let's do that deal. Thanks Tate Man, Tate, thank you so much for chatting with me today. I'm you know what, I'm gonna go watch Hercules tonight with

my kids. Just in your honor, listeners, We're gonna see you next week for another episode of Off the Beat. I'll have our guest, You'll have another laugh. I mean, really, what more can we ask for? Make sure to check out Off the Beat on Instagram and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts in the meantime, and I will catch you next week. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley.

Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is Sammy Cats. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by my great friend Creed Breton, and the episode was mixed by Seth olandscape Uno