Steven Krueger

back to pick me up a little bit. Because it was just like, oh my god, it's me and all of these children, and like, I, you know, I'm a grown man. Hi, I'm Stephen Krueger. I am an actor, and I think I'm going to have a new best friend after today. Well, hello everybody, and welcome. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Off the Beat. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. This week's guest, as you just heard, has a lot of buzz around him. Yellowjackets,

very own. Stephen Krueger is joining me today. Get it buzz, yellowjackets like a bee. You get it, I get it. It's awesome Stephen. What can I say about Stephen? One, He's very cool. Two He's worked on a lot of huge shows like the Originals and Roswell, New Mexico, jumping into everything from vampires to sci fi. Steven has no fear, literally, and that cannot be more true than with his most recent show, Yellowjackets. If you haven't seen it, you should.

It's that good. I really really enjoyed it. And wow, it could not have been easy to execute. There are time jumps. The cast filmed in freezing temperatures, and spoiler alert, Stephen literally got his leg chopped off. Maybe not literally, but that did happen on the show. We'll talk about that and much much more. I cannot wait for you to hear our conversation. It's a good one. Let's go right now, my south By Southwest buddy, Stephen Krueger, Bubble

and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeak, Bubble and squeaker, cooking every moment left over from the nut before. What's up? Stephen? There he is the man, the middlegition. What's happening? Oh man, it's great to see your face. Well, it's good to see yours now before we get started, I may meet you in person. Are you going on a little trip this weekend? Oh? Are you gonna be in Austin? Oh? Well, maybe we'll see each other in person, my man, I

think I mean new best friend. Hello. Hi, Well well well we'll have a chat today and then we'll have well maybe a longer chat this weekend. That sounds amazing. What are you doing down there? I'm actually coming to stock you. I don't know if that is. I mean I appreciate right off, because now I can plan a few things just to like keep you on your toes right off the bat. No, I am there in Austin

with iHeart, uh talking about this podcast right here. We're gonna do a couple of of panels down there at south By Southwest. So an, it's amazing. Wow, I'm so happy you're gonna be there. This is just part one time of our time together this very week. Well, we better not blow it then in part one. Now, let's not blow up. Yeah yeah, although I can then still cancel the flight. Um, I don't think I'm kid, so I'm locked in there. You go, Well, actually I can't either,

so I want to go back. I read you were born in Appleton Lake, city of Appleton, Wisconsin before moving down to Sarah Soda. Now does that make you a Green Bay Packer fan? You know, I think I switched allegiances, which is like kind of a cardinal sin. But I think I've done it. I think I switched allegiances pretty quickly when I when I got to Florida. I mean, to be fair, people ask me where I grew up, and I do say Florida. I do say, Sarah Soda.

I think I left Wisconsin when I was like nine years old, so I do equate growing up with Florida. Although it's weird because you know, nine years old is kind of that time when it's like it's like split your childhood, right, I mean, it's literally halfway in between being born and leaving for college. But yeah, I think like within a year or two of moving to Florida,

I switched allegiances to the Bucks. Okay, because you know, you don't want to be the person in Florida rooting for the rooting for the Green Bay Packers or you do. But that was a choice you made. That's a choice I made, you know, you know, I got you know, Brian, I got bullied enough in high school. I didn't need I didn't need that added I didn't need that added element to it there. All right, Well that's that's fair enough. I actually have relatives in sarah Sota. Do you really

down there? I do, It's been a number of years since I've been down there. The Great Area Town District CSA key down there in sarah Sota. Yeah. Best beach in the country, best best beach in the country, like not my not my personal opinion. Like google it oh Google, Oh Google, Oh that's what Google like actually rated. I mean, you could probably ask chat GBT as well. I don't know, it might give you a slightly different answer, but yeah, Google,

Google's never wrong. Um. So, so you grew up in Florida, when did you first start thinking, Oh, acting sounds kind of fun. Was this something you were interested in early on? Or was this this a developed taste? This this was something I was interested in early on. But there's there's a couple of caveats to that. Number One. I actually wasn't interested in it. Um My mother thought that I

would be interested in it. Um she she, for whatever reason thought and it's probably just because I was a little rambunctious and uh, you know, was always kind of running around trying to steal the spotlight, and so she probably just wanted an outlet. So that when I came home from school, you know I would be quiet. Um. So she kind of encouraged when I when I started high school, she kind of encouraged, you know, why don't you take why don't you take acting level one and

just see what happens. I think you'd I think you'd love it. Um. And I remember fighting around it too. I was like, why do I want to like, No, that sounds that sounds terrible. Let me take you know, like let me take study Hall or like or like Jim or something where I can just dick around for an hour, right um. And so of course, you know, as the as the tale always goes, mother knows best. And uh, I can still remember the extra size and the teacher that we had. She was brilliant. Her name

was Terry Wood. She had been in LA for a while, I think done some like soap operas and stuff like that. But she was an incredible acting teacher. And I will never forget the very first day of that first year in high school as a freshman, going into acting class, and there was an exercise where we were all on the stage sitting in a circle, and she kind of laid out this story for us and she said, so your parents gave you one hundred dollars to come to

school with. And that hundred dollars and I forget exactly what the details were, but it was something that really drove the stakes up right. That hundred dollars was really really important. It was you know, it was like to fix you know, your car at the end of the day, and if you weren't going to pick up your brother, YadA, YadA, YadA whatever. Very high stakes. And you've now misplaced that hundred dollars. You cannot find it. What do you do?

And me sitting there, you know, we're all sitting there literally first first day of high school, and so I kind of start doing what I think is acting right. I like start going through my pockets and like starting to look concerned and all this stuff. And meanwhile I'm like, I'm like sideye, glancing at the teacher, like am I doing this right? You know? Like is this what you were is this what you were going for? Like? How how good am I? As an actor? And I remember

this one guy in the class. I can still picture his face. His name was Chris, and he got up from the stage and went down to his seat in the audience and started tearing through his backpack and throwing things around. And I remember everybody in the class, including myself, just stopped and watched this guy and immediately and of course, you know that was kind of a lesson, right, It's like, yes, that that is exactly what she was trying to get us to do. And I just remember being so enthralled

with like, oh, like that's what acting is. That was like that was insane, Like this guy just got up and started tearing through Like I never in a million years would have thought to do something like that, And so it clicked very very quickly for me. I was like, that's cool, Like I want to I want to learn how to do that. I want to I want to be able to capture some strangers attend and just by doing something like that. And so, you know, it grew

and it became something that I really enjoyed doing. But to be totally honest with you, it was a high school hobby. I mean, never in a million years did I I mean I think I read that you you did this in high school but then also went on to study it in college and got your degree and all that stuff that that was in the back of my mind. You know, when I left high school and went to college, I was going to go to law school. You know, I was never going to be an actor professionally,

because let's be honest, Brian, who becomes an actor professionally? Right? Well, law school, to be fair, that was my plan. B So you did plays in high school. I did plays, and I also I made a note to ask you about this. I also did competitive speech and debate, and I went to all of the tournaments. And did you do the same thing? Yes? So, I yeah, I saw that note. You moost such nerds. I love this. You joined the speech and debate team. You did duo interp

I did. They called it at the time humorous, and there was dramatic interb and I did dramatic intern I bet you did. And actually it was more successful the year that I went to nationals there for dramatic interm. Uh. So you so that that you were serious about that, Like you would do that on the weekends. You would go to the competitions. Oh yeah, and we had to and and my high school had a like, like, the speech and debate team in my high school was legit. I mean, we were in I remember it was like

two seasons. Right. I don't know if you guys did this because you were you were in Atlanta, right, so not that far away, that's right. We did like in the fall. You know, there weren't like the the you know, the acting events that the speech. It was more it was more debate. It was like congressional debate, you know, where we would go to like the state capitol and have these tournaments and stuff. So I would do that in the fall, and then in the spring is when

it branched out into all those different categories. Right. You guys probably had the same thing where it was like you know, poetry and prose and like all this different stuff. Um, and so yeah, in the spring, yeah, became I actually I actually started to prefer that overdoing plays in high school. I think because of like the competitive nature of it. You know, Like I also played tennis, and so there was just like this competitive itch in me and I was like, yes, I want to act, but I also

want to beat people at acting. And so yeah I did. I did duo interpretation, and then like once in a while, my partner wouldn't be available for a tournament, so I would like jump into humorous or dramatic or something like that. And I mean it was a blast, Like it was. Looking back on it, it it really was like the nerdiest possible medium for acting, you know, like like the rules and and and just kind of like the stiffness of

it all in duo interpretation. I don't know if you ever saw it, but like you weren't actually allowed to look at your partner. It was like you were both facing out towards the back of the room and it's like you picked up he picked like a spot on the back of the room and that was like, you know, like you were looking at your partner, but it was all facing out to the audience. Yes, yes, I have seen it before. It was really fun. I mean it truly was like it was a good time in the

nerdiest acting, dork kind of kind of way possible. Right. Well, it's interesting because so I, like you, it sounds I am a very competitive person and started in sports, so I think there was something about about me that that really got off on that as well. Like, but what's funny for me is that not the intern stuff, but the competition stuff continues through college. There's there's a competition acting competition called the Irene Ryans. I don't know how

I just pulled that out. That is impressive. And we did like the one act play competitions. We went and won a national one act play comp and it was all about that. And then I went to college. I went to SMU and the person who was head of the acting program there specifically said, no, we're not doing that. That's not acting. We're here to actually learn the process of acting, which I know, which is so it's funny now like time it. At the time, I was like, oh, no,

this is That's a very reasonable approach. I'm here just to learn. I'm here just to learn. But now I'm like, God, I wish I could have crushed this person. People took it so seriously. I'm sure you remember, like it was like I will never forget being at those tournaments and like and like, I don't know if they did it this way when you were there, and we could move on from high school speech and debate to this or not or not. We could just do an entire hour

on this. Yes, maybe this is a separate podcast that we need. You know, sometimes I do wonder, like if kids are still doing this and I school, I'm sure that they are, But like I remember being those tournaments and it was like you would do your your initial few rounds or whatever, and then like they would put up like a big poster board that just had your your team number or your your competitor number written on it, and it was like, if you broke onto the next round,

then your number would be on the board. So everybody kind of sat around like just you know, biting their fingernails, and they put up this thing, and everybody would rush up to the board and like, oh my god, I'm on there. And then you know, if you if your number wasn't on there, you were just crushed. And it would just go like that until you got to the final round, where it was like, you know, six, you know,

six people or six teams were on that thing. I that is so funny that you say that, because I remember that. It feels like, and you're younger than I am, but it feels like nineteen seventy two or something, where like everyone is standing around waiting for a piece of paper to get taped to the wall. I know the internet existed when you were growing when you were doing this. Now, I wonder if that drama is gone. It's probably one app. You know, you probably get like a notification on an

app and it's like, you know, you're off. But the exciting part about it was that there was a community, you know, and like even though it was competitive, like when you got to those later rounds of the competition, all the people that had been like eliminated you know, previously would come and watch, so all of a sudden, you know, before it was just the teams you were competing against in the room. Now you get to like

the quarterfinals, the semifinals, the finals. Now you've got huge rooms full of people that have just come to watch because it's entertaining. And like that was kind of my first sense of, like, you know, outside of high school plays, performing for people, you know, in a very real, like live setting, and it was, I mean, it's exhilarating and and how was that for you? Did you did you? Did you get a high from that? Oh my god, completforming in front of people? Yeah, I mean I absolutely

loved it that. I mean, especially doing comedy, as you know, it's like you get that you know, you you you you launch in in that first thirty forty five seconds comes the first joke and you can tell right then if this is going to go well or not, you know, if it's if it's crickets in the room all of a sudden, it's like, oh my god, I have nine more minutes of this and this is going to be a disaster. But like if there's a if there's a big laugh on that first joke, it's like, let's go here,

we got this. I read you did fifteen years of competitive tennis. Now I was a tennis player as well, and I could say the same thing. Something tells me you were a little bit more more serious than I was. What so this this was because I grew up in Florida. I mean Florida was like Florida was like ground zero for the the hyper competitive, mostly douche you know, young people growing up who were being coached by their parents and going to all the all the fancy academies and whatnot.

I mean, because you could play year round. Of course. So did you go to a fancy academy? You know? I started at one and I think it was a combination with Terry. It was Nick Boltary Nick I didn't do that research. Wow, Yeah, yeah, I went to Nick Military. I was there. I worked there for let's see, I think I trained there for like it wasn't long, it was like two months or something. And then I think I realized very quickly that I wasn't good enough to

actually be getting coached by Nick himself. You know, that was of course reserved for like the you know, Andy Roddick was only like a few years ahead of me, so I remember he was like a big thing growing up, and like there was people at that level, you know, people that were clearly about to be professional tennis players, and I was like, well, you know, this is kind of stupid. I'm like being trained by these So I ended up going to a smaller one called Billy Stearns.

And yeah, I mean I played in high school. I you know, I eventually gave up all my other sports to kind of focus on tennis, and I played year round, you know, a train during the summer Florida summers, of course, when they would let you be on the court for about ten minutes at a time and then you would you know, a mandated break for five minutes. So it was just like constant back and forth. But I mean I loved it. It was you know, there was nothing

nothing better than me. I don't know where I got this competitive you know, drive from, but I guess in theory it served me. Well, well, it's interesting because tennis, and I assume you played singles, did singles and doubles. Yeah, and you did doubles. So that's kind of like the duo thing. You're choosing these competitive outlets that are usually done solo. But yeah, you're choosing to have a partner. Now. For you, that competition continued to drive you through college

and you wanted to go to law school. I guess although I didn't really do anything competitive other than like you know, pledge of fraternity, which I guess, which I guess was like kind of competitive, you know, like got to get into the best fret of course, right, But no, I mean I yeah, who wah wah, you know it? Oh yeah, I know it. Yeah. You Virginia people, you're so smug about Virginia, are we really? Let me just

tell you. You know, what I kept hearing when I went to SMU was that it was built the design was exactly the same as Virginia. No way, That's what I heard. So it's like like the lawn and like all the lawn and stuff, the dome big rotunda. So did we also, you know, you know where a lot of that smugness came from. It's like, we didn't you know, VA, we don't call it a campus. It's called grounds. If

that's right. If you say campus, you will be chastised. Um. And then of course we don't call it freshman, sophomore, junior, senior. It was first second. Yeah, so stupid, that's you know, I know it's stupid, but I still I'm an alumni and I'm still like, you know what, that's what we do. I'm sorry, this is how we roll. It's like the Ohio State University. There's a similar smugness and duchery that is associated with both of that. I'm going I'm gonna

get hell from. But schools out to you now, Yeah, look, by the way, I love both schools. They're fantastic, fantastics universities of higher learning. So you go to university, you were just on the law school track. I studied government, I studied history. I studied economics. In no in no sense that I ever did I ever even consider I didn't even take a class. I mean at that point, at that point, acting was completely in my past. I was like, yeah, cool. That was fun in high school. Um,

now let's move on to like, you know, grown up things. Okay, yeah, so when did it change? So it changed? Because I mean, it's funny. I often think that, like my entire career was a complete coincidence because I graduated from school and my I hit this plan where like I wanted to take a couple of years off before I went to law school. I don't know why. I think at the time, I realized that, like, you know, law schools and the

career track of a lawyer is an interesting thing. It's like, once you go to law school, you're you're kind of stuck on that path because you've got to graduate from law school and then immediately take the bar. You know. You sound like you can graduate from law school and then take the bar two years later it will fail. And then once you take the bar, you kind of have to get a job. You know, you got to go into two a law firm and start your career. You know, again, if you take the bar and then

take two years off, nobody's gonna hire you. So I just I kind of intuitively knew that at that age, and I was like, if I'm ever going to take time off, this is the time to do it. And I had gotten an internship at this law firm in LA and it was supposed to be for like recent undergraduates, you know, who were either about to start law school, were going to start law school sometime in the next year or two. So I came out for that. It was, you know, it was an exciting thing. You had to

apply to get it. And it was a big, fancy corporate law firm, which is exactly what I thought I wanted to do. So I found myself in LA for this summer and long story short, I mean I kind of just got a bitter taste in my mouth from

working at this law firm. I was, you know, I saw a lot of partners at this law firm who were in their fifties and sixties, and they just weren't you know, I mean, they would they would be very honest with me in these little meetings that we would have where they said, you know, I put it bluntly, I've got a lot of money, you know, Like I make a lot of money, but I'm divorced, and I

don't know my kids that well. And I'm sixty years old and I still work sixty five or seventy hours a week, and it was a lot of that, you know, and I was just like, is this really you know, I don't know if this is actually what I what I want to do. I thought about maybe, you know, being a judge and like doing constitutional law, but you know, you don't make very much money doing that, and I do like money, so you know, that was that was

always in the back of my mind. So I basically after that internship ended, I said, you know what, I loved acting in high school. I'm in LA this is where it all happens. Why not just like try that for a couple of years, you know, in that interim two years off and see what happens and uh and if nothing happens, then you know, no harm. No felt that was my plan. Anyway, I go, I go to law school as intended um and that plan quickly got

shot down. Which now it's so funny because what an idiot, like, what a dumb ass I was, you know, isn't it funny when we're when we're like twenty two years old and we're like, yeah, no, I've got this off, Like I know what I'm doing. I got this figured out. This is this is easy. But I had a meeting with um a producer named Brad Fuller, who is I mean, he's he's a huge producer. Even at that time. He was, you know, a big producer with Michael Bay's partner and

been doing this for a long time. And he's a he's a family family acquaintance, and so they you know, kind of set this up. And he was gracious enough to sit down with this, you know, twenty two year old kid for honestly an hour. I don't know why, but I told him this plan and he kind of laughed in my face, honestly, and he said, he said, Okay, not to shit on your dreams or anything, but if if your plan is to try this for a couple

of years and see what happens, then don't bother. You know, this is not the kind of industry, This is not the kind of career where you can try it for two years and see what happens, because nothing's gonna happen, like I promise you that. And so I almost remember my face like melting, you know, like trying to trying to like not cry because I thought I had this all figured out, and then this guy is just like turning my whole plan upside down. And I remember asking him,

we'll have okay, not two years, like how long? Three years? Four years? And he fled out told me ten years. He said, you need ten years to figure out a few things, right, and you'll relate to this, right, you need you need ten years to figure out a if you even like it. You know, a lot of times we do this as younger kids and we think, oh, this is so fun, and then and then we start doing it professionally, it's like, no, this is not this

is not nearly as fun as it was. He said, you need to know if you're any good at it, because the same thing. You know, everybody thinks you're good when you're a kid, and then you start doing it as an adult and they're like, nope, not actually not actually that good at this. And then of course if you can deal with like the ups in the downs right, the roller coasters, and he said, you won't know any

of that really until you're about ten years in. And funny enough, I would give the exact same advice to somebody now. I mean, I mean, do you do you agree? Yeah, it's interesting. I have sort of a similar theory which is that the people who live in New York, or they live in Chicago, or they live in London or wherever else and they come to LA for a pilot season. This for me never made sense. Now it works out, yeah,

somehow for some people it works out. But for me, yeah, that well it worked out back when there was a pilot season. Well that's for one, that's true. But yeah, just the idea that I'm just gonna go to LA and try this for a couple of months and see, because the likelihood that one you're gonna get a pilot is not great, and then two that that pilot is going to get made, and then three that it's going to turn into a series. Like I agree, Yeah, you

have to play. For me, you had to play the long game, which was why I never came until I was ready to move smart. I mean, here's the point. It is a business. It is a business. It's not a flight of fancy. I mean, you know it is.

You sort of mentioned this. It's kind of a young person's game, right, and you have the energy, you have the ability to you know, uh, the desire to sleep on someone's sofa for a period of time and be sort of a okay with that, But I think approaching it as a business and taking that long term ten

years whatever whatever that number is, is exactly right. Yeah, yeah, I mean, And the funny thing is it literally was a young person's game for me because I you know, the the second piece of the advice that I got from from Bread was you know. He then said, Okay, look, if you decide you want to do did you did you study this in college? I said, well no, he said, so you're telling me you just did some plays in

high school. I was like, yeah, more or less. The ridiculousness that I was presenting to this like established producer, it still haunts me to this day, like truly it gives me nightmares. But but he said, well, look, you probably need to spend some time like studying, going back to school, like learning how to do this. You know, don't rush out and try to get an agent and a manager and try to start auditioning. You know, this

is a cutthroat business. You will walk into a casting office and if you're not up to snuff, they will take a big black marker and just cross off your name, which which is true. I mean, I learned that the hard way once or twice. I mean, to this day, is that is very true. Yeah yeah, people think, well, I'll just give it a shot. What you know, what's the harm in going and giving it a shot? And

if you're not prepared. You know, everybody is doing their own job within this business, right, it is a business for that. So you get somebody to convince a casting director or a producer to have you seen on a show when there are thousands of people who want to be seen on this show. And we're even seen in an audition, seen in an audition back when we were going into a room and they only had you know, thirty forty spots to see people that's right seen for

a show. I mean yeah yeah, and you waste their time. Oh you'll never walk back in there again. To this day, I have a casting director or two that will not see me like truly to this day. It's it's it's remarkable. But but I mean, you know, it does exactly what you just said, it makes, it makes a lot of sense. And I mean he kind of scared the shit out of me. So I really did spend a few years just studying and training. You know, It's not like I

went back to college. Or anything, but just with different teachers around town. And I really took that seriously. You know, I kind of treated it like graduate school, even though you know, much less expensive of course, and and you know, so it wasn't really until I was in my mid twenties easily that I was even like trying to go out on auditions, you know. So I really got a late jump on on all of this. And it was

funny because I still looked so young. I mean, I still you know, I get I get rid of this, and I'd be like, oh my god, you could probably play college age still. But like I remember going into at age twenty six twenty seven, going into auditions for like Disney shows to play like fifteen year olds, and there were actually there were you know, the room was filled with kids and their parents, and you know, I I was so like, I was so embarrassed that I would say, oh, you know, my dad dropped me off.

You know, he's coming back to he's coming back to pick me up a little bit, because it was just like, oh my god, it's me and all of these children, and like, I, you know, I'm a grown man. I remember playing high school when I was thirty years old and thinking like, Okay, I think I think this is it. I think this is my last opportunity to play high school because at the point, you just like, you know, mentally, you forget what it was like to be in high

school and be able to portray that. But that's always kind of been my path, I think in this industry, as I was on a late track. You know, I didn't start until till later in life, and I and I still look young, so I kind of have this weird like dichotomy that I've always been wrestling with. So when did you When did you finally have the confidence that you were ready to start going out for shows? I mean, it happened. I'm not sure there was any

one moment. I remember a young woman in one of my acting classes that I worked with a few times, said hey, you know, do you have a manager or

an agent or anything. And she ended up setting me up with her manager, and and that kind of fell through after a short amount of time, and then I got another manager that I was with for a very long time, and I guess it just kind of started starting slowly happening, where like this audition and this audition and then you booked a little costar where it's like, I mean, I'll still remember for the rest of my life that very first co star that I got that

was two lines, and I remember getting the call and thinking, I'm gonna be on television, Like I'm gonna actually be paid to be on television. This is the best moment of my life. And it was, you know, there was like one or two lines on a CW show, and I just thought it was like the coolest, you know,

the coolest thing ever. And I mean, you know how careers go, like they you know, you slowly kind of build and you book some small parts, and I do remember there being well, there were a couple of moments. There was one after I had done a number of guest stars that show, Pretty Little Liars came out and it was like kind of a big deal and I

had never read the books or anything. I didn't really know about it, but I remember getting it and starting to like research it, and I remember thinking like, oh, this is like a this is like a thing, Like the people that are on this show as regulars are gonna be you know, they're gonna be famous, Like they're gonna be big, big deals. And I did like three

episodes at the very beginning of the show. But that was kind of my first taste of like like I remember my manager telling me how much money I was gonna make and it was like it was nothing, you know, but like I remember thinking, what, like in for one week, I'm gonna make that much money, Like holy shit, this is incredible, like wow, and like and like the scripts got delivered to my house by like a courier, you know, because I had to be at the table read the

next day, and I was like hello, like I am all right. It's like we are getting somewhere now. So it's so funny because yeah, I mean that that experience of like, wow, this is what I'm getting paid. But then it's like, oh, right, but I haven't worked in three months and I will sell them three months after this at least, right, So take that one week and spread that over exactly three months, and you're like oh right. Yeah.

It was like immediately doing the math, I'm like, great, this much per week times fifty two weeks a year. I'm rich. I am right, but like this is awesome. And then it's like no, no, no, no, you will be back to unemployed in about three weeks. Yeah, your mind's like, wait, why is my car still at the doe yard. I don't understand. I thought I was getting paid all this money then, But yeah, I mean that that happened and then and then, you know, I did go through I did go through a trough. And I

remember this. I've talked about this before. I think the year was twenty and twelve and I had done you know, I'd been working for a couple of years at that point, pretty consistently on you know, guest stars and things like that, some recurring roles and money, you know, some money was coming in. I did some commercials back in the day. I remember commercials were like a big thing, and you know, you could actually make a living doing just just commercials.

You know, you would do one national commercial and you know, all of a sudden, sixty eighty one hundred grand was was showing up in your mailbox with residuals. It was I mean, it was mind blowing to me. But like, you know, I was starting to kind of feel it. But then, for whatever reason, I wasn't getting the bigger roles, you know, Like I would go out an audition for them and I would get called back, and like you know, would get down to like maybe the last two or

three people, and it just it wasn't happening. And like, um, you know who I always heard talking about this and I someday I will meet him and I will thank him for for giving me hope. Was John Hamm because I hear him, you know, every every time people talk to him and interview him. You've talked to him actually, right, yeah, you know you know him obviously, but like he always talks about that. You know, he was getting close and

just never getting the thing. And I remember reading at some point he you know, he tested for fifteen or seventeen pilots and he was, you know, thirty five years old when he got Madmen and I and he specifically was somebody that I held onto was like, okay, it's not too late, Like I'm like, this is like this is actually how it's supposed to go. You know. Like I had an acting coach named John Rosenfeld that I worked with for a long time and I'm still very

close with. He had a great quote that I really took to heart that I think every actor should take to heart. He said, booking is a mistake. Booking a job is a mistake. It's it's it's truly an accident because it oftentimes has nothing to do with the audition that you're that you're doing, you know, with the work that you're doing. It's a million other reasons that go into it. You know that we have no control over. He said. The thing you can control is getting yourself

in contention. If you're good and you're doing good work, and you put yourself in a position to be one of those last few, you know in the mix, that's the best that you can hope for. And then beyond that, don't worry about it, Like things will start happening at some point. And so those those were kind of the things that I took to heart, and I thought, you

know what, this this will happen at some point. Just keep I was also a psychopath, by the way, when it came to like researching and preparing it, like, I know a lot of actors, I feel like actors, I'm curious with what you think about this. If I would audition for something, I would then look up exactly when that episode of television was gonna air, and I would record it and I would watch it, and I would say, who got this part? And what did they do differently

for me? Why did they get that part? And I did not like I needed to know? And it was religious like every single and I still do it to this day, I believe it or not. Every single thing I auditioned for that I don't get I watch because I'm like, what motherfucker got this thing? And what did

they do that was better than me? And I know so many actors that are like once they once they leave that audition room, they're just like forget it, don't want to think about it, don't want to know who got it, don't want to don't want to watch it, or anything like that. But the advantage I think that gave me, and what was really helpful about that was I oftentimes saw they didn't do anything better than me.

You know, like either they did something very similar what I did, or to be quite honest, they were like not quite as good as what I thought I did, and there was some other reason that they got hired. Now, of course, once in a while you do see that thing where you're like, oh shit, yeah, yeah, that person, that person's really good. But then you still learn from it, right, You're like, wow, I would not have thought to take this, this, this role or this material in that in that direction.

So it's it's super educational and I think that actually helped me quite a bit. I don't know, I don't know if you ever reached that level of sociopathy, but um, I was a sociopath about researching the show. You know,

the genre, the style, um, before going in. I think the only thing that I will do now, you know, I'm gonna really quick if I'm gonna admit it is if there's something that I'm really interested in now and I know that I'm in the mix for and it doesn't happen, I will demand to know who got it and where they live and pray that they are five five on one hundred and twenty five pounds, like yep, if you know when when it comes. And I think

this happened one time. God bless him. I was a big fan of him as a person and uh and as an actor. But like, if Leslie Jordan got it instead of me, then I'm like, totally cool, that's totally fine. They were looking for something else. I felt like my version was okay, yeah, but there you go. UM that's how I am. It's like I get something or I come close to something and then like I see Idris Elbow got it, and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, well sure of course, So that's they were they were looking

for Idris Elp. No, that's obviously never happened, but that would be that would be a dream. Oh that's funny. But then it's like, uh, and I know him a little bit too. But if you know John Carroll Lynch, when I see John Carroll Lynch got it, I was like, well, fuck, I just screwed it up. I clearly just screwed it up. It's like your doppelganger gets the role. Yeah, exactly. In twenty thirteen, you finally get a significant role the Originals,

the role of Josh. Now, had you seen Vampire Diaries before? I hadn't, but of course I had heard of it. You know, everybody I had heard of it. At that point. I hadn't watched it. I had. I had auditioned for the Originals for like the backdoor pilot that they did in one of the seasons of Vampire Diaries, and I

didn't get that. And then once the series got picked up and they called me in for this other role that was You're right, that was kind of like my first I would call it like maybe significant real break, but it wasn't supposed to be, right. It was supposed to be, which I found out later, and I didn't I didn't even realize this. I kind of had an instinct, but I thought that it was supposed to be like

three episodes. You know, they even told me, like, you know, you're written in three episodes, maybe it goes to four, you know, maybe they extend you a little bit. And then I got there and I started doing this this role, and I don't know, something just kind of clicked, you know, whether it was you know, I'm sure it was a combination of like the work I was doing and the character itself was just something that they kind of needed on the show. You know, it kind of filled a

gap on the show. But you know that three or four episodes turned into turned into five seasons and my first series regular, And that was when I first felt like, oh, something I did, something I'm doing is at least having an impact on on the work that I'm getting. You know, like they saw that I was doing something and they decided to keep this character around for five seasons, and

that was that was a good feeling. You know, that was the first time in my career where I was like, great, I think that I can I can do this and actually make a living. You know. That was the first time I didn't have a side job, you know, the first time I was just living on on acting, which I think every actor remembers, you know, that first year where oh my gosh, I just survived off of what I was making as an actor. So that that was a really cool moment. And the cool thing about that

show the Writer's Room. In the first season that show, of like the ten writers, I think eight or nine of them have now been showrunners and creators, which is just insane, you know, like they were all such talented writers, and so much credit to our showrunners, who were Julie Pleck and Michael Narducci for like hand picking this group of people that were just insanely talented, and a lot of them it was, you know, their first or second job in a writer's room, and all of these people

were brilliant. So I knew that those scripts I was getting, I was like, this is this is good, Like this is impressive. You know, it's a it's a CW vampire show, but like, this is really really good. Stuff, and it made me want to like dive in even further. You know, it made me want to take it really seriously and really kind of dig into the into the work and well and behold, that's how I got yellow jackets. So you know, things like that tend to tend to work out.

You played a gay character Josh on television before gay marriage was even legalized. Yeah, did you feel any sort of responsibility about that? Was there already added pressure on that it was a positive representation? Yes, yes, very very positive. I actually I turned down the audition, uh twice before I before I went in and actually did it because and this was this was my own you know, stupid

bias and prejudice at the time. But for whatever reason, I was reading the sides and I was reading the breakdown, and I had it in my head that they wanted kind of a flamboyance, you know, very two dimensional gay character for this role. And I thought, well, A, that's not something I want to play, and b that's just not that's not me, you know, like I'm somebody's gonna be able to pull that off much better than I can,

you know. And once they told me, you know, no, this the whole point of this gay character is he is a normal college guy. He's got a whole lot of stuff going on, and oh yeah, he had to be gay as well. And I thought, well, that's cool, Like that's that's something that you don't see on TV. I mean, this was twenty thirteen, and you didn't see

that on TV a whole lot. You know. It was like you would have token characters that were diverse or minorities, whether it was you know, sexuality, ethnicity, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And so I thought, okay, well, here's a chance to take a character and having be entirely three dimensional and his sexuality is just one of

his personality traits, you know, as as our humans. So that was it was like a really well rounded, three dimensional character, and I thought, this is a really cool opportunity. So yeah, I did. I felt a huge responsibility to to kind of make the character whole, you know, and not just have it be hey, here's our gay character on the show. Yeah, we've seen that so often, and

it's it's terrible. It's interesting because you know, it's very similar in a way to you know, my long conversations with Oscar Nunez who played Oscar Martinez on the Office, and that was you know, that's the that's the thing that he talks about all the time as well, which I mean specifically for his character. You know, he was two seasons in before he knew that his character was gay, right, And he talks about having this conversation his head which

was like how does this change me? How does this change my performance? And ultimately landing on the genius of it, which was like, well nothing, right, idiot. This is just a part of who he is and there is specifically nothing yet that's that's right, right, that's right. So I um, yeah, I I find that very interesting. Um So, when your time on The Originals ends fairly quickly, you get cast

in Roswell, New Mexico, also on the CW. Now do you feel like there was a connection there between Queen, your work on The Originals and then moving on to another show there on the CW. Yeah, well there was. And what's funny is timeline was Roswell actually came after Yellow Jackets. It's it's it was a really weird So.

So here's what happened. I'm about to blow your mind. Okay, So, so The Originals ends in twenty and eighteen, I kind of bounced around and and you know, do you know a handful of guest stars and stuff, And again I go through one of those periods where I'm like, well, shit, maybe I just got lucky with you know, with that one show. And that was that was it for me.

You know, it isn't it weird like the mind games that we would play ourselves, like, you know, I just worked for five years, but it's probably never gonna happen again. So then in two nineteen and like the fall of twenty nineteen, the script for Yellow Jackets came into my inbox and Roswell had already been on the season for like or been on the air for like one season,

I think at this point. Um Roswell was created by one of our writers in that first season of The Originals named Karina Fensium, and I was very close with her, and I auditioned for I auditioned for a role in Roswell, didn't get it. And then Yellow Jackets came along. And when the script came into my inbox and I and I read it, I knew it was gonna be good because Ashley and Bart wrote it. But I didn't know it was gonna be that good. I read it and was I think every every actor on the show says

the same thing. It was one of, if not the best pilot I had ever read. It was mind blowing. So I auditioned for that, got that, and we filmed the pilot of Yellow Jackets at the end of twenty nineteen, like November and December of twenty nineteen. Oh wow. And I remember rapping on the pilot and we were all kind of curious, like, you know, because this was showtime.

I had never done a you know, like a premium kind of network show like that, and so we were all kind of asking, you know, what's what's the timeline here? And the answer we got was, oh, by you know, by March or so maybe April. We'll have a pickup decision March or April of twenty twenty. Right, so of course we all know what happens. Shit hits the fan, uh,

you know, COVID attacks, the entire industry shuts down. And what's so funny is I remember signing the con track for that for that, for that pilot, and they had a twelvemonth option on all of the actors, and I had never signed a contract that had that long of an option. And I remember asking my reps at the time, I said, I said, is this normal, like a whole year, like they owned me for a whole year, And they said, yeah, you know, for for like the kind of premium level

you know, networks and stuff. This is what they do. But don't worry, like that's never you know, they're never gonna take a whole year to decide whether they pick the show up, like it'll be it'll be pretty quick, oh man. Um, So we essentially spent all of twenty twenty just wondering if the show was going to get picked up, you know, and I would have frequent conversations with with Ashley and Barred about you know, what's what's going on behind the scenes, what's and you know, nobody knew.

I mean you remember, it was like networks were kind of going through and nobody knew what the future of the business was. I remember thinking, like a robot's just going to take over, like it's our act. Are they just gonna do animation you know from here on out and there's not gonna be any live action stuff. And in the meantime, you know, all of the brilliant minds in the industry kind of formed that that like think tank almost where it was like, how do we get

things back? You know, how do we get back onto a set with the proper protocols and and all that kind of stuff, And by like by like July, August, September, they had kind of started to figure it out, and so things were starting to get back to production in like September October of twenty twenty, and Roswall was going back to work and there was like a one season role on that show and they called me and said, hey, you know, do you want to play this role? Because

I've worked with them for so long. It was Karena Mackenzie and Chris Hollier, another writer on The Originals, and I said, yes, I would love to, but I don't know what the hell is happening with Yellowjackets, Like I don't know if we're getting picked up. So we had to do a whole back and forth or showtime about like, hey, what is the deal here? Like is this like I have I have an opportunity to go to a full season of another show? Is this thing happening or not?

And so I was able to do the full season of Roswell from like October twenty nineteen to April of twenty twenty one, and then I had three days from when I Roswell to drive from Santa Fe, New Mexico to Vancouver, Canada to start Yellow Jackets. So, um, it was. It was intense, but I was able to squeeze them both in and I'm very grateful. It was just one of those magical things where the timing just kind of worked out absolutely perfectly, which doesn't happen all that often

in this business. As you know. No, that's that's awesome. Uh. Yellow Jackets obviously one of the most talked about shows last year. I loved it. So this was though a straight audition, like you you got an audition for it, Okay, it was, and it was many rounds. It was many rounds of auditions as well. Um, yeah, they put me through. They put me through the ringer for sure. Well it I mean, look, I know, I know a lot of things could be faked. Um, there are things on that

show that can that cannot. It is incredibly physically grueling, I imagine psychologically grueling as well. A lot of stuff taking place outdoors in the woods in Vancouver. How was that the process of shooting? Is that the most difficult show just physically and emotionally that you've done to that to this point. Yeah, yeah, far and away, Far and away it was, and that there were a lot of

different elements that went into it. And I'll give it's not really a spoiler because it happens so early on, but I think the thing you're alluding to is is my my leg getting getting chopped off, which happens very very early on in the show. So um, not not

too much of a spoiler. And you know what, if you haven't seen it, that should make you want to go watch it even more, right, But yeah, And they had told me that was that that was going to happen, that I was gonna you know, that I was going to be losing a leg, and you know immediately again it comes back to very similar with with the Originals, where it's like, oh wow, so now I'm playing an amptyte And I felt an incredible amount of responsibility there,

you know, to really research and figure out how do I how do I do this? You know, as as a non disabled person, how do I how do I often represent somebody who has suffered through a traumatic amputation like this. So I did a ton of research, you know, physically, psychologically what a person goes through, just leading up to it. And then we get to Vancouver and the other element of this, yes, you mentioned all of it right. We

were outside in the woods. We were coming in every day, and we were putting on our costumes that were dirty and crusty and smelly that they didn't wash intentionally because we were stranded out in the wilderness and we did not have laundry machines. You know, it was just gross. I mean, we were rolling around in the dirt, it was hot. And then the other element to all of this was the border between the Canada and the US was closed for most of twenty twenty one. So we

got there and we couldn't leave. We were stuck. We couldn't come back home, we couldn't visit our friends or family, nobody could come visit us, and so that was like a whole other element that just I don't think anybody was anticipating. I think we thought that this was, you know, the COVID thing was going to be kind of over by then. But we spent almost that entire first season with nobody but each other. It was very much like life imitating art, you know, we were we were stranded

there together. And so the silver lining I guess with all of it is that because we only had each other, it really did create this this very strong bond and a lot of chemistry amongst the cast for that first season, which which I think was kind of reflected, you know, on screen. But it was a strange situation. I mean, none of us knew what to do. You know. We all went through periods of feeling like we were losing

our minds. And then of course it's the first season of a show, you know, which, as you know, it's hard to know if it's going to be good or not, Like like, did you know I'm always I'm always curious, but like, but I actually, I'll be honest, I didn't think that. There were times when I thought, oh, wow, like this is going to be good, and I knew that the scripts that we were getting were good, but

there was so much self doubt. All of us went through periods of like, Wow, this show is not going to be good, Like this show is not going to find an audience. People are not going to like this. I remember asking my agents and managers. Like the last month or two of filming, I said, start looking for something else because this Mike canceled, which just sounds so stupid retrospective. But you just don't know. I mean, I'm

always curious with other actors. Did you know that the Office was going to be what it was when you guys were doing that first season in the first few episodes. No, I mean, I knew it was special. But the phrase that I always that I remember saying at the time was if people give this show a chance, we have

the opportunity to do something really special. But I you know, of course I had no idea, right, I mean, but the elements that you bring up, and to give people some perspective on this, you were forced to essentially be locked in a hotel room for two weeks, is that right? Yeah, it was two weeks. Two weeks. So, folks, you fly into the Canada and this is what I was told. At first, I thought they locked the door. They don't lock the door, but they don't give you a key

to the room. Is this was this your experience? And so if you leave your room, they'll know because you won't be able to get back in and on this show. Yeah, I see how that could really help. That's got to have created an incredible bond. It did, I mean in in great ways, and I mean, you know, there were times when we clashed, of course, and would get in arguments and hated each other and but but ultimately was

it really was. But also but for a cast as big as we had, I was amazed at how well we all got along, like truly, like it could have gone. It could have gone very south under those circumstances, and it just didn't. Like we all just got along very very well. And you know, it's funny the quarantine thing. I realized afterwards that I did it incorrectly. I'm probably like about to admit to a crime here that they

may come and like prosecute me for. But like the two elements that you mentioned, one you only had to do the hotel if you flew into the country, and I drove into the country, so I got to go straight to my condo that I had rented for like the next six months and quarantine there, which which most of the people did. But they would have to do three days in a hotel to start, and then they got to transfer to their to their you know, condo

or apartment or whatever they were renting. Okay, the second thing I screwed up was I didn't realize you weren't literally literally were not allowed to walk out your front door. I thought you like couldn't leave and go out on the street. So every day I was like going down to get food deliveries. I would like exercise by like running up and down the stairwell in the building, and then like I would like run up the stairwell and then take the elevator back down and like run up

and again and get out of quarantine. And like I'm talking all my cast mates who looked like they have just like you know, spent two weeks in the hole in Shawshank Redemption. They're like, oh my god, that was brutal. You know. One person couldn't get food delivered. She was living on like rice that was like left over from the previous tenants and the thing. And I'm like, I didn't think it was that bad. Like I don't know. I was like I exercised a lot. I was running

up and down the stairs. I got food delivered. I came down and said, what's upthing, And they're like, what's we got yellow caution tape taped over our doors so we couldn't leave, and I was like, oh, I'm like, oh I did this very very incorrectly. Oh my gosh, sorry Canada, Sorry Canada. Well good for you, though, I mean, you know, you gotta do what you get. Not a crime if you don't get caught. And I think the

session of limitations as well as well passed. Yeah, um dude, uh, season two coming out very soon here March twenty six. You probably can't give me any spoilers, but what happens? Um? Yeah, you want me to tell you how it ends, I'm gonna tell you. I want to tell you who dies and who lives. To not tell anybody, all right, I

won't tell anybody, Okay, great? Um, No, it's uh. It can be a very tall order to come back for a second season after you've done a first season of a show that has the kind of success that that we were able to find, and we were lucky enough to find. Um. And I think the unique thing about our show it was it was a hit with both you know, kind of critics and audiences. So I think we all felt the weight of those expectations, you know,

throughout the entire the entire season. I think that the writers and the creators did an incredible job of pushing the envelope just far enough so that it's not exactly the same as season one, you know, like it's it's it's a new vibe. It's even crazier, it's even more intense, but it doesn't jump the shark. You know, it's all rooted in in the base of this story and who these people are. It's just putting these people in the most dire of circumstances and seeing how they react and

and you know, the result is pretty shocking. It's insane. I mean, it's actually it's actually insane. Even even filming it, there were moments when we were like, are we really are we really doing? Like are we really doing this? But are we sure about this? And that's what you call a tease the gentlemen, Stephen, thank you so much. I look forward to continuing our blossoming new friendship down in the great state of Texas. March twenty six, Yellow

Jackets comes back. I can't wait. Although this is what I'm gonna I'm gonna get the advanced tapes. Oh you are that's no, that's my goal. Now we don't actually give the tapes out. We have to lock you in a room and you're allowed to view them, and then we use one of those little men in black flashy things on you before you leave. Before you leave the room, well, then I can see it twice. Ye yeah uh, Stephen, thank you so much. I'll see you soon. Thank you, Brian.

This was so much fun. I cannot wait to explore our best friendship in Austin, Texas. That sounds great. Were as some boots We'll do. Steven, thank you so much for joining me today. You're the greatest. I cannot wait for this next season of Yellow Jackets, coming March twenty sixth. Buzz buzz buzz. Though I am a little mad, you will give me no spoilers. Listeners, make sure to watch the show and then come back here next week for another episode of Off the Beat. The guest well yeah,

there will be one. Off the Beat is hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan, Papa Zachary and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed